Most Surprising or Biggest Bolter ever to win a TMS title? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Most Surprising or Biggest Bolter ever to win a TMS title?

Action Jackson
03-19-2004, 07:31 AM
This is a poll for the biggest bolter to win a TMS title at that time and look at the dates carefully.

In my opinion the answer to this is the great Roberto Carretero the guy was ranked #143 at the time and qualified for the event he beat 4 seeded players to win and two very good claycourters as well.

R1: def. Jordi Arrese, 6-3,5-7,7-6(2)
R2: def. MaliVai Washington (10),6-1,6-0
R3: def. Arnaud Boetsch (7), 6-4,6-1
QF def. Gilbert Schaller (16), 4-6,6-4,6-4
SF: def. Yevgeny Kafelnikov (3), 7-5,6-2
F: def. Alex Corretja, 2-6,6-4,6-4,6-4

After that he jumped up 85 places and only won one match that year which was a default from Jordi Burillo in 1R US Open.

WyveN
03-19-2004, 07:38 AM
Either him or Woodruff

Action Jackson
03-19-2004, 07:39 AM
Whenever you are ready to vote Wyver, at least I tried to put a tennis topic here.

If Roddick wins a clay TMS then I could include him.

Domino
03-19-2004, 09:53 AM
Wouldn't Portas be considered to the most surprising? He hadn't won a title previous to Hamburg, and had to qualify as well.

WyveN
03-19-2004, 10:26 AM
But Portas was pretty good on clay as was Mantilla.......someone like Carretero was pretty hopeless everywhere

Billabong
03-19-2004, 02:36 PM
Portas also surprised me when he won Hamburg, Juanqui had him in the finals but finally lost in 5 sets :eek:! Portas really played great in this tournament though:)!

Leo
03-19-2004, 04:40 PM
Pioline once won a clay TMS? :eek:

I voted for Carretero.

Sjengster
03-19-2004, 05:47 PM
Pioline was very good on clay, he made the RG semis back in 1998 beating Safin and Arazi back to back but was absolutely exhausted and got crunched in straight sets by Corretja, a bit like the next French hope three years later. He beat Hrbaty in the Monte Carlo final.

Didn't Country have an amazing run in Montreal? I don't know who he beat in the first two rounds, but in the last four he beat Philippoussis, Ivanisevic, Kafelnikov and Kuerten (don't know the exact order, but it was Kuerten in the final). And he made the IW semis in 99 taking out Henman before losing to the Scud.

Interestingly enough, when Carretero came back the next year to defend Hamburg he won one round against Knippschild, then got absolutely thrashed 1 and 1 by a certain Felix Mantilla who went on to reach the final that year, losing to Medvedev. It's been observed that no-one has won their first ever TMS final since Canas back in 2002 (Coria, Mantilla, Roddick and Henman had all been in finals previously before they won last year).

Havok
03-19-2004, 06:15 PM
Whenever you are ready to vote Wyver, at least I tried to put a tennis topic here.

If Roddick wins a clay TMS then I could include him.
so where's Sampras ;)

TheBoiledEgg
03-19-2004, 07:27 PM
Roberto Carretero :haha:
he holds the record for biggest fall in ranks in one week while still playing on tour.

He went partying and womanizing after that Hamburg triumph and hardly won a match in the next yr.

Portas, he's been around along time, his was still flukey and is still in top 100.

Chloe le Bopper
03-19-2004, 07:43 PM
so where's Sampras ;)
Sampras was a Roland Garros semifinalist eventually. Roddick? Heh.

Chloe le Bopper
03-19-2004, 07:44 PM
I'd like to block that Ferrero-Portas final out of memory. I'm sorry, but Portas should never have won that title. Ferrero just fucking lost it. Lame.

Funny how many of these are from the Canadian Open. Wacky wacky tournament.

LCeh
03-19-2004, 07:49 PM
Sampras was a Roland Garros semifinalist eventually. Roddick? Heh.

Well, to be fair, Roddick probably has 8-10 more years of tennis ahead, so he most likely will reach that. Even though I haven't really been able to watch a lot of tennis, but I think Andy has improved a lot over the past few months, and is still improving. He is adding more variety to his game, and his confidence seems to be growing. Only time can tell how far he will go.

Chris Seahorse
03-19-2004, 07:49 PM
so where's Sampras ;)

:haha: Nice one Naldo.

I consider Sampras winning his one claycourt Masters event at Rome in 1994 to be far more surprising than Pioline winning in Monte Carlo (Pioline had after all been in the Monte Carlo final twice previously losing in 98 to Moya and in 93 to Bruguera) or Mantilla winning in Rome last year (hey!! the guys won 10 ATP titles on clay).

Take away Sampras's Master's win in Rome in 94 and his career record for the three clay Masters events would have stood at 17-18. Sampras reached only one other final on european clay in his entire career when he won in Kitbuhel in 92. Among those 18 loses were wins by Alex Calatrava, Harel Levy, Paul Haarhuis, Arnaud di Pasquale, Carl-Uwe Steeb and of course Fabrice Santoro (three times :D ).

But I agree with George, the most surprising Masters win has to be Carretero`s. He would win only 7 more ATP matches for the rest of his career. As surprising as Portas`s German Open win it was nothing compared to Carretero`s.

My runner-up would be Michael Pernfors who, although a former top ten player, had won only 12 ATP matches in the preceding 3 years and won only another 6 for the remainder of his career.

One more thing. What is Ferreira`s name doing on this list. He`s been a top 10 player, won 2 Master`s titles (he also won Stugart in 2000), is a two time grand slam semi finalist and has earned roughly 10 million dollars in his career. That`s not too bad.

Chloe le Bopper
03-19-2004, 08:01 PM
Well, to be fair, Roddick probably has 8-10 more years of tennis ahead, so he most likely will reach that. Even though I haven't really been able to watch a lot of tennis, but I think Andy has improved a lot over the past few months, and is still improving. He is adding more variety to his game, and his confidence seems to be growing. Only time can tell how far he will go.
I didnt' say he would never do it. But at the moment, there is a reason that Sampras doesn't belong on that list, and that is one of the many. Mind you, I don't think that Roddick would belong on the list if he won a clay masters either, but that wasn't the point ;)

SaFed2005
03-19-2004, 08:33 PM
Almost all the surprise winners seem to be at the canadian open...

Action Jackson
03-20-2004, 08:16 AM
:haha: Nice one Naldo.

I consider Sampras winning his one claycourt Masters event at Rome in 1994 to be far more surprising than Pioline winning in Monte Carlo (Pioline had after all been in the Monte Carlo final twice previously losing in 98 to Moya and in 93 to Bruguera) or Mantilla winning in Rome last year (hey!! the guys won 10 ATP titles on clay).

It wasn't a surprise for one he was playing Boris "I Never Won A Claycourt Title" Becker in the final and absolutely killed him. Sampras lost to many players, but he had better wins on clay in Europe than Roddick at the same stage, he beat Mancini, Skoff (2x), Leconte, Gomez, Steeb, Muster from 2 sets down on clay at the same stage of his career.

One more thing. What is Ferreira`s name doing on this list. He`s been a top 10 player, won 2 Master`s titles (he also won Stugart in 2000), is a two time grand slam semi finalist and has earned roughly 10 million dollars in his career. That`s not too bad

He always had the ability to do so, but he never used it consistently unless he was playing Sampras. It wasn't a surprise that he won a TMS, it was a question of when he won it and that goes for Mantilla as well.

J. Corwin
03-20-2004, 08:38 AM
There was a thread here awhile ago about how Hamburg is the one considered to have the most surprise winners. Well...one time TMS winner, that is.

Action Jackson
03-20-2004, 08:43 AM
I was trying to find the most surprising winner, not the actual tournament that produced the most surprising winners.

WyveN
03-20-2004, 08:57 AM
Take away Sampras's Master's win in Rome in 94 and his career record for the three clay Masters events would have stood at 17-18. Sampras reached only one other final on european clay in his entire career when he won in Kitbuhel in 92. Among those 18 loses were wins by Alex Calatrava, Harel Levy, Paul Haarhuis, Arnaud di Pasquale, Carl-Uwe Steeb and of course Fabrice Santoro (three times :D ).


Early on in his career Pete was a decent player on clay. Far above average. His record got smashed later on in his career when he primarily became a serve-volleyer on other surfaces and didn't have the stamina to compete properly on clay.

Pete did beat 7 or 8 French Open Champions in his career, Can Pioline say that?

Tennis Fool
03-20-2004, 05:01 PM
Well, to be fair, Roddick probably has 8-10 more years of tennis ahead, so he most likely will reach that.
Pete was just at the beginning of his domination when he reached the SFs. Roddick already has to look out for the youngsters (Nadal, Gasquet, Soderling, et al).

Tennis Fool
03-20-2004, 05:02 PM
Carretero should have a thread onto himself, or maybe along with Chris Lewis...

Atleast the others had distinguished careers.

scoobydoo
03-21-2004, 03:19 AM
chris woodruff definetely in 1997

FryslanBoppe
05-01-2004, 04:33 AM
Roberto Carretero without a doubt, the guy came from nowhere played spectacular tennis, groundstrokes weren't missing, the volleys worked and he was very fast around the court, then he disappeared not long after.

Carretero enjoyed too much wine and women and not enough tennis.

YoursTruly
05-01-2004, 04:39 AM
I'd say Portas. It's like, where did that come from??!?!

FryslanBoppe
05-01-2004, 04:48 AM
I'd say Portas. It's like, where did that come from??!?!

Carretero is still a bigger bolter as he was ranked even lower than Portas, though I didn't think Portas and TMS champion would be in the same sentence.

YoursTruly
05-01-2004, 04:52 AM
Yes, Carretero was a shocker too. A part of the "where did that come from" group.

FryslanBoppe
05-01-2004, 05:47 AM
Yes, Carretero was a shocker too. A part of the "where did that come from" group.

Very true at least Portas actually tried to play afterwards and hardly won any matches afterwards.

CooCooCachoo
05-01-2004, 06:05 AM
Well, Carretero is before my time so I can't really judge on that (although, looking at his ranking, he'd probably deserve my vote), so, I voted for Woodruff. It was a close call between him and Portas, but Woodruff never really caught my attention and hardly ever achieved anything.

R3: def. Arnaud Boetsch (7), 6-4,6-1


Interesting guy :) He actually delivered France the Davis Cup, but is thinking about adopting (or has at the moment, not too sure) the Swiss nationality too. I vaguely remember something about a Scientology or racist quarrel surrounding him or something? Can someone enlighten me on this?

FryslanBoppe
05-01-2004, 06:10 AM
Interesting guy :) He actually delivered France the Davis Cup, but is thinking about adopting (or has at the moment, not too sure) the Swiss nationality too. I vaguely remember something about a Scientology or racist quarrel surrounding him or something? Can someone enlighten me on this?

Carretero is the king of bolters in my eyes.

Well Boetsch married a Swiss woman in 1991 and has been living in Geneva ever since, and he has almost served the time required to become a Swiss citizen, as for the racist/Scientology thing I am not sure, but I will see if I can find out anything, many of the French players live in Geneva.

Action Jackson
05-01-2004, 06:22 AM
Carretero is the king of bolters in my eyes.

Well Boetsch married a Swiss woman in 1991 and has been living in Geneva ever since, and he has almost served the time required to become a Swiss citizen, as for the racist/Scientology thing I am not sure, but I will see if I can find out anything, many of the French players live in Geneva.

It's ok Boetsch wasn't a racist, he is a Scientologist and the team he was playing in German league tennis was kicked out because there was a press article about his religious beliefs and the general public put pressure on the club to kick the club and Boetsch out.

Here is the story in German
http://www.menschenrechtsbuero.de/html/220698.htm

NACH RELIGIÖSER DISKRIMINIERUNG IN KARLSRUHER TENNIS- BUNDESLIGA-VEREIN:

DER FRANZÖSISCHER TENNISSTAR ARNAUD BOETSCH INTERVENIERT BEI DER
INTERNATIONAL TENNIS FEDERATION

(Karlsruhe) In einem Schreiben an Brian Tobin, Präsident der Internationalen Tennis Federation in London, protestierte jetzt
der französische Tennisstar Arnaud Boetsch gegen religiöse Diskriminierung im Tennis-Verein Karlsruhe-Rüppurr. Der
Tennis-Verein engagierte Boetsch als Spieler für die kommende Bundesliga-Saison, kündigte aber den Vertrag aufgrund eines
Artikels in der örtlichen Zeitung über die Scientology-Mitgliedschaft des Spitzensportlers, nachdem einige Sponsoren den Verein deshalb unter Druck gesetzt hatten.

Inzwischen nimmt der Diskriminierungsskandal internationale Dimensionen an. In dem Protestschreiben von Boetsch an die International Tennis Federation heißt es: "Ich habe niemals meinen persönlichen Glauben und meinen Beruf miteinander vermischt. Obwohl es meinen Kollegen und Trainern bekannt ist, daß ich Scientologe bin, war dies niemals Diskussionspunkt und sollte auch keiner sein. Sport ist Sport und Religion ist Religion. Aber was im heutigen Deutschland geschieht, ist
klare Diskriminierung basierend auf meiner persönlichen religiösen Überzeugung und eine Verletzung von meinen Menschenrechten. Ich bitte Sie in dieser Situation zu intervenieren und klarzustellen, daß Religion in keiner Weise Thema im Sport ist und daß solche Diskriminierungen von der Internationalen Tennis-Federation nicht akzeptiert werden können."

Auch die Präsidenten des Deutschen Tennis-Bundes und des Tennis-Clubs Rüppurr erhielten das Protestschreiben von Arnaud Boetsch. Am 16. Juni hatte sich die Scientology Kirche Stuttgart in einem dreiseitigen Offenen Brief an Bundesaußenminister Klaus Kinkel gegen Inquisition und Hexenjagd im Sport gewandt und um Hilfe gebeten. Eine Antwort von Kinkel steht bisher noch aus.

Für den Inhalt und weitere Informationen: Reinhard Egy, Scientology Kirche Stuttgart

Horatio Caine
05-01-2004, 12:00 PM
I doubt whether Canas will win another Masters event but yeah, Carretero seems to be the most surprising and quite frankly, shocking, winner.

Action Jackson
05-01-2004, 12:30 PM
I doubt whether Canas will win another Masters event but yeah, Carretero seems to be the most surprising and quite frankly, shocking, winner.

If he plays Henman in the final, Canas is a special to win.

Dirk
05-01-2004, 12:59 PM
:lol: :rolls: George that is too much. Poor Tim.

Action Jackson
05-01-2004, 01:04 PM
:lol: :rolls: George that is too much. Poor Tim.

Dirk, I was at the AO when Canas beat him from 2 sets down and that was one of the funniest things being in that stadium. I think Jez isn't the most objective fan and is a bit protective of Timmy, so when he makes a Canas comment like that, well it had to be said.

:woohoo: Canas

UseTheSearchTool
07-24-2004, 06:52 PM
As much as Canas's win was a surprise and that was a great victory, but at least Canas has gone and done something after his unlike Carretero and Portas after their victories.

The Canadian Open has had some surprise winners and maybe this will continue.

Raquel
07-24-2004, 09:08 PM
Roberto Carretero without a doubt, the guy came from nowhere played spectacular tennis, groundstrokes weren't missing, the volleys worked and he was very fast around the court, then he disappeared not long after.

Carretero enjoyed too much wine and women and not enough tennis.

I agree, it's definitely Carretero. I see a few people in this thread are saying he enjoyed too much wine and partying and that is news to me, but at least an explanation as to what happened because his lack of form after that tournament is pretty staggering.

Hitwoman
07-24-2004, 09:23 PM
Portas and Pavel, ooooh, Pavel

Marc Rosset is Tall
07-25-2004, 08:42 AM
Woodruff and Pavel winning were surprising, Portas was bizarre, but Roberto Carretero is the king of bolters.

Action Jackson
11-30-2004, 12:20 AM
Roberto "Tightpants" Carretero, he made an impact at Hamburg, and disappeared just as quickly.

Hahaha.

Billabong
11-30-2004, 03:30 AM
Portas;)

*Ljubica*
11-30-2004, 05:09 AM
I voted Portas too.

ATPTOUR
11-30-2004, 05:11 AM
Carretero still leads.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 01:36 PM
Vamos Carretero.

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 01:40 PM
Carretero gets my vote ;)
with pernfors not far behind
what about most underated TMS player ever?
Andrei chesnokov.. 2 titles and 3 runner ups in the 90's..

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 01:46 PM
Carretero gets my vote ;)
with pernfors not far behind
what about most underated TMS player ever?
Andrei chesnokov.. 2 titles and 3 runner ups..

For sure about Chesnokov, that guy should have been a stand up comedian.

Pernfors was a total surprise considering where he was ranked and he beat Todd Martin in the final.

Papakori
08-15-2005, 01:59 PM
Carretero or Portas

its.like.that
08-15-2005, 03:52 PM
Whenever you are ready to vote Wyver, at least I tried to put a tennis topic here.

If Roddick wins a clay TMS then I could include him.

If it were slams, then Agassi's Wimbledon and RG titles would be contenders.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 03:53 PM
If it were slams, then Agassi's Wimbledon and RG titles would be contenders.

You might get in trouble for those comments.

its.like.that
08-15-2005, 04:02 PM
You might get in trouble for those comments.

Hewitt didn't deserve to be a slam winner either. Wimbledon 2002 had the weakest slam field since the invention of the steam engine, and Pete was having prostate problems during the 2001 US Open final.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 04:06 PM
Hewitt didn't deserve to be a slam winner either. Wimbledon 2002 had the weakest slam field since the invention of the steam engine, and Pete was having prostate problems during the 2001 US Open final.

Enjoy the thread for what it is.

Carretero was a great 1 hit wonder, he came out of nowhere and played so well at Hamburg, then wasn't seen again for a while.

He got fat and enjoyed the ladies.

its.like.that
08-15-2005, 04:14 PM
ok, well I think Woodruff was the least deserving for that matter.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 04:15 PM
ok, well I think Woodruff was the least deserving for that matter.

Why Woodruff?

its.like.that
08-15-2005, 04:24 PM
Why Woodruff?

I never liked watching him, and I never liked him either.

Raquel
08-15-2005, 05:49 PM
Hewitt didn't deserve to be a slam winner either. Wimbledon 2002 had the weakest slam field since the invention of the steam engine
If you win 7 matches, you deserve to win the Slam. It's not Lleyton's fault Safin lost to Ollie Rochus, Agassi lost to Paradorn, Sampras to Bastl etc. If they can't beat those players, they don't deserve it either. Who did deserve to win Wimbledon 2002 then?

and Pete was having prostate problems during the 2001 US Open final.
First I've heard of that. He never mentioned it in his post match press conference.

In fact he said this :

Q. Not having an off day.

PETE SAMPRAS: No, I felt fine. Physically, I was fresh and ready to go. I just ran into another hot player, just like last year. I mean, I tried everything to try to figure it out, and nothing seemed to work. He returned and passed as well as anyone I think I've ever played. But I felt fine.

Q. You've given him a lot of credit, but do you feel you were nearly as sharp?

PETE SAMPRAS: Well, the reason I wasn't quite that sharp is because of the way he was returning, the way he was passing. You know, every time I made a second serve, he made me play. I was hitting low volleys. It's hard to do that three sets, let alone I just -- the harder I served, the more I put into it, the better he returned.

Read the whole thing if you want - http://www.asapsports.com/tennis/2001usopen/090901PS.html

The word prostate doesn't come up once, funnily enough.

its.like.that
08-15-2005, 05:51 PM
If you win 7 matches, you deserve to win the Slam. It's not Lleyton's fault Safin lost to little Ollie, Agassi lost to Paradorn, Sampras to Bastl etc. If they can't beat those players, they don't deserve it either. Who did deserve to win Wimbledon 2002 then?


First I've heard of that. He never mentioned it in his post match press conference.

In fact he said this :





Read the whole thing if you want - http://www.asapsports.com/tennis/2001usopen/090901PS.html

The word prostate doesn't come up once, funnily enough.

I suppose some people could take what I say a little more literally...

PS. Bad luck with the cricket :kiss:

Raquel
08-15-2005, 05:54 PM
I suppose some people could take what I say a little more literally...

Quit confusing me and making me find interviews! :sad:

I probably should have read those posts you made before it but still.... :o

PS. Bad luck with the cricket :kiss:
I'm Scottish. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi Oi Oi baby :p

its.like.that
08-15-2005, 05:57 PM
Quit confusing me and making me find interviews! :sad:

I probably should have read those posts you made before it but still.... :o


I'm Scottish. Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, Oi Oi Oi baby :p

:lol: my apologies for inconveniencing you :p

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 05:58 PM
Good old Portas has done nothing since qualifying for Hamburg and winning it that was a funny result.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 06:12 PM
Stupid Lleyton. Stupid JCF :p

ys
08-15-2005, 07:23 PM
Sure Woodruff.. What is Johansson doing in this list?

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 07:26 PM
Sure Woodruff.. What is Johansson doing in this list?

All of these winners were unseeded at time.

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 07:30 PM
Henman was unseeded when he won Paris bercy....
ahh those were the days, or day in his case :zzz:

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 07:31 PM
Henman was unseeded when he won Paris bercy....
ahh those were the days, or day in his case :zzz:

I could have put Henman is, but he was always more highly rated than the 10 guys that I mentioned for some reason.