Mr Disney fines Davydenko $10,000 [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Mr Disney fines Davydenko $10,000

Hugh Jaas
01-11-2007, 03:24 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/tennis/6250911.stm


"
Russia's Nikolay Davydenko has been fined $10,000 after making disparaging remarks about the Sydney International.


He claimed on Wednesday that players had pulled out of the last major warm-up for the Australian Open because they did not care about the event."

And thats worth a $10,000 fine? No wonder the top atp players behave like robots becasue if they question Mr mickey mouse they get this.

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 03:25 PM
This De Villiers is a cancer.

lunahielo
01-11-2007, 03:31 PM
:( :(

tangerine_dream
01-11-2007, 03:33 PM
Fine him again for being an ugly gnat, Mr Disney :banana:

Saumon
01-11-2007, 03:33 PM
:retard:

Hugh Jaas
01-11-2007, 03:36 PM
Fine him again for being an ugly gnat, Mr Disney :banana:

thats a bit harsh.

a $10,000 fine for speaking for mind. terrible. that means players are going to be scared to speak out about the issues, cos if the atp don't like what they say they will jsut fine them

alfonsojose
01-11-2007, 03:41 PM
He deserves it. There's a diference between speaking your mind and being an asshole: By insulting the tournament, he spited on the face of linesmen, volunteers, etc. He dissed the effort of tons of people. Etienne is an asshole too, but take it to him, not to the tourny.
Really dissapointed with Kolya. Play less, bang your wife more :ras:

ae wowww
01-11-2007, 03:43 PM
Freedom of speech?

alfonsojose
01-11-2007, 03:52 PM
Freedom of speech?

He signed a contract with ATP. Nobody put a gun next to his head. If players don't like what Mr. Disney is doing, take it to the courts, or to the ATP council. I would like to see your face if JesusFed would play a tournament in your local town and says... "This sucks". And we're not talking about a struggling future here.

If he dislikes the rich ATP execs, great. But the fans, the ball boys who receive his towel .. no way man. Classless comments. F*ck u, Kolya.

Neely
01-11-2007, 03:53 PM
Freedom of speech?
Sure, but it's always that freedom of speech ends where the interests or rights of others begin. And Davydenko as a tennis pro is part of an organization.

Anyway, he will survive the fine easily :lol: , can laugh it off and play again.

Hugh Jaas
01-11-2007, 03:56 PM
Freedom of speech?

that's just a buzz word politicians use to win elections. But $10,000 fine is a complete joke.

tangerine_dream
01-11-2007, 03:57 PM
He deserves it. There's a diference between speaking your mind and being an asshole: By insulting the tournament, he spited on the face of linesmen, volunteers, etc. He dissed the effort of tons of people. Etienne is an asshole too, but take it to him, not to the tourny.
Really dissapointed with Kolya. Play less, bang your wife more :ras:
I would like to see your face if JesusFed would play a tournament in your local town and says... "This sucks". And we're not talking about a struggling future here.
Well said, Fonsie. :bigclap:

Deboogle!.
01-11-2007, 03:59 PM
Freedom of Speech, at least in the US, does not apply to private institutions, so unless the law is vastly different somewhere else, that discussion is completely irrelevant here.

Davydenko's comments were out of line, no doubt, but what I fear is that the fine will have a chilling effect on things that need to be spoken out against (like round robin - if a player thinks the ATP is gonna fine him for speaking out against round robin, this is a bad bad thing.).

gomarray
01-11-2007, 04:00 PM
He could have spoke his mind without putting Sydney down. All he needed to do was emphasize how important the Australian Open is, and let everybody know that he needs to be in top physical condition for the Open.

coreyschucky
01-11-2007, 04:01 PM
Freedom of Speech, at least in the US, does not apply to private institutions, so unless the law is vastly different somewhere else, that discussion is completely irrelevant here.

Agreed. MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA players and coaches get fined left and right for the criticism they have towards there organization. It happens on a daily basis. ATP is along the same lines as those leagues. Do I agree with the fine no but I think they were in the right here.

alfonsojose
01-11-2007, 04:02 PM
He could have spoke his mind without putting Sydney down. All he needed to do was emphasize how important the Australian Open is, and let everybody know that he needs to be in top physical condition for the Open.

:yeah: Like it or not, Mr. Disney is absolutely right this time

mer
01-11-2007, 04:07 PM
He deserves it. There's a diference between speaking your mind and being an asshole: By insulting the tournament, he spited on the face of linesmen, volunteers, etc. He dissed the effort of tons of people. Etienne is an asshole too, but take it to him, not to the tourny.
Really dissapointed with Kolya. Play less, bang your wife more :ras:
Hypocrisy. A lot of players do pull out of this event. The reasons are more or less what Davydenko said. But it's Davydenko who just blanlty answered their question about why they all pull out, is an asshole. He could have been more diplomatic for sure, but you know that his english is not so good. He didn't want to insult anyone.

alfonsojose
01-11-2007, 04:09 PM
Hypocrisy. A lot of players do pull out of this event. The reasons are more or less what Davydenko said. But it's Davydenko who just blanlty answered their question about why they all pull out, is an asshole. He could have been more diplomatic for sure, but you know that his english is not so good. He didn't want to insult anyone.

His english is not so good :haha: :haha: lame excuse :rolleyes:

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 04:13 PM
That's dictatorship. No surprise some players are talking about making a new association.

mickymouse
01-11-2007, 04:21 PM
Davydenko behaved like an idiot for biting the hand that feeds him. But 10K is a little ridiculous. I'm sure you don't even get fined as much for accidentally driving over somebody.

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 04:25 PM
Davydenko behaved like an idiot for biting the hand that feeds him. But 10K is a little ridiculous. I'm sure you don't even get fined as much for accidentally driving over somebody.

You know that you are arrested if you drive over someone, doesn't matter if it's accidentally or not...

gomarray
01-11-2007, 04:26 PM
$10,000 would be high for alot of players, but Davydenko will make a ton this year.

I just hope they wouldn't fine a lower ranked player the same amount, and that they would use a percentage of last year's income similar to Daydenko's.

El Legenda
01-11-2007, 04:27 PM
to have your "Freedom of Speech" taken away...the government has to be involved.
ATP can fine him for talking if they want :lol:

Miss Croft
01-11-2007, 04:29 PM
Although I really like him, I do understand the point why he deserves it. Still, it wouldn't need to be a fine to solve this after all. If they felt attacked by speech, they should have said something.

joyk
01-11-2007, 04:29 PM
No surprise some players are talking about making a new association.
I think that`s a good ideea.What Davydenko said was disrespectful to his fans and all the people involved in this tournament,but he shouldn`t be fined for this.

Carito_90
01-11-2007, 04:54 PM
He deserves it. There's a diference between speaking your mind and being an asshole: By insulting the tournament, he spited on the face of linesmen, volunteers, etc. He dissed the effort of tons of people. Etienne is an asshole too, but take it to him, not to the tourny.
Really dissapointed with Kolya. Play less, bang your wife more :ras:

He signed a contract with ATP. Nobody put a gun next to his head. If players don't like what Mr. Disney is doing, take it to the courts, or to the ATP council. I would like to see your face if JesusFed would play a tournament in your local town and says... "This sucks". And we're not talking about a struggling future here.

If he dislikes the rich ATP execs, great. But the fans, the ball boys who receive his towel .. no way man. Classless comments. F*ck u, Kolya.

Fonsie, you can hate him for what he said, but you can't FINE him. It's just not right.

R.Federer
01-11-2007, 05:01 PM
It was a crass thing to say, especially while playing in the tournament, but everyone knows that he is right. Maybe he was caught off guard, and in that moment spoke his mind. So now, we expect the pithy boring comments from players praising everyone and everything in sight, great.

Best is, most players get fined LESS for verbal abuse of umpires. Andy once told the umpire "You're a moron" and got fined nothing if I'm not mistaken. Even though there are explicit rules against verbal abuse of match officials. Those are crass things to say as well.

I have a suspicion that if this was Roger Federer or Nadal or another superstar the fine would have been =AUS$0.

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 05:05 PM
It was a crass thing to say, especially while playing in the tournament, but everyone knows that he is right. Maybe he was caught off guard, and in that moment spoke his mind.

Best is, most players get fined LESS for verbal abuse of umpires. Andy once told the umpire "You're a moron" and got fined nothing if I'm not mistaken. Even though there are explicit rules against verbal abuse of match officials.

I have a suspicion that if this was Roger Federer or Nadal or another superstar the fine would have been =AUS$0.

That's exactly the biggest problem. Being disrespectful to umpires and linesmen isn't a big deal to mr. Disney, but saying something bad about his tournament directors is a capital fault.

Vass
01-11-2007, 05:12 PM
De Villiers you are a motherfucker. If you come to dubai on some Dubai-promoting business i think i might throw a rotten egg at you.

Davydenko didn't do anything. He didn't even say that the tournament sucks. He just said that players don't give it a high priority and that's it.
EVERY player sometime said something like "I will take a rest before <...> Grand Slam" doesn't that mean the same thing?

gomarray
01-11-2007, 05:22 PM
It's just a fine, and like I said earlier, $10,000 to Davydenko, who is consistently going deep in tournaments, is not a big deal. If I were in his shoes, a fine is thousands of times better than a suspension, which is another course of action, and a fine does not disrupt his preparations for Melbourne.

I really like Nikolay, I just think it was an unprofessional thing to say because the players have a responsibility to market the game, not just to play. When these comments go public, the casual tennis fan living in Sydney may not want to attend the tournament in the future because thay feel it's a poor tournament. I know its a weaker tournament and so does everybody here, but we should all try to make the public believe that it is a big tournament, so that people will show up to watch.

alfonsojose
01-11-2007, 05:24 PM
Fonsie, you can hate him for what he said, but you can't FINE him. It's just not right.

He was fined for not showing respect for his sport. However, i agree with GlennM., nobody does a thing when linesman are under attack

R.Federer
01-11-2007, 05:24 PM
It is not the size of the fine that is of any relevance here (it would if it were truly gigantic which it isn't), it is the type of message underlying this fine that is troublesome.

You can now expect very boring, pithy, politically correct statements about everyone and everything in interviews, because no one is certain what is off limits.


It's just a fine, and like I said earlier, $10,000 to Davydenko, who is consistently going deep in tournaments, is not a big deal. If I were in his shoes, a fine is thousands of times better than a suspension, which is another course of action, and a fine does not disrupt his preparations for Melbourne.

I really like Nikolay, I just think it was an unprofessional thing to say because the players have a responsibility to market the game, not just to play. When these comments go public, the casual tennis fan living in Sydney may not want to attend the tournament in the future because thay feel it's a poor tournament. I know its a weaker tournament and so does everybody here, but we should all try to make the public believe that it is a big tournament, so that people will show up to watch.

gomarray
01-11-2007, 05:26 PM
Federer or Nadal would have been fined if they said that.

About swearing at umpires, my opinion is that although it is poor behaviour, it would bring the fans in if they knew they were going to see altercations with officials in addition to great tennis.

Swearing at umpires doesn't cost tournaments money, insulting the tournament itself does.

Loremaster
01-11-2007, 05:32 PM
That's funny . I think he should he fined, he showed zero respect to this sports, if he didn't like this tourney why he bothered coming ( I guess only because of cash ) ??. Some Qulifier would take hsi place, and would be extremly happy becasue of that.

but funny is amount of money, I always thought that this fines are too low, 10,000 it's nothing for Davydenko, he wouldn't notice this.

they should fine him something like 100,000 to invest this many into charity or to help young players who need financial help, and after such fine Davy would think twice before talking BullShit , I hope AO audience will BOOO him before and after his every match

Miss Croft
01-11-2007, 05:35 PM
It's just a fine, and like I said earlier, $10,000 to Davydenko, who is consistently going deep in tournaments, is not a big deal. If I were in his shoes, a fine is thousands of times better than a suspension, which is another course of action, and a fine does not disrupt his preparations for Melbourne.

I really like Nikolay, I just think it was an unprofessional thing to say because the players have a responsibility to market the game, not just to play. When these comments go public, the casual tennis fan living in Sydney may not want to attend the tournament in the future because thay feel it's a poor tournament. I know its a weaker tournament and so does everybody here, but we should all try to make the public believe that it is a big tournament, so that people will show up to watch.

Thing is that such a huge amount of money can be used for something much better coming from himself other than a fine. Sure it's no big deal for somebody who earns that much but making him waste some of it on a stupid fine is ridiculous.

TMJordan
01-11-2007, 05:40 PM
Thing is that such a huge amount of money can be used for something much better coming from himself other than a fine. Sure it's no big deal for somebody who earns that much but making him waste some of it on a stupid fine is ridiculous.

How U doin? :aplot:

gomarray
01-11-2007, 05:41 PM
Maybe instead of fining him, they should make him buy some nice, colourful tennis outfits.

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 05:44 PM
Maybe instead of fining him, they should make him buy some nice, colourful tennis outfits.

A wig, maybe?

alfonsojose
01-11-2007, 05:45 PM
Federer or Nadal would have been fined if they said that.

About swearing at umpires, my opinion is that although it is poor behaviour, it would bring the fans in if they knew they were going to see altercations with officials in addition to great tennis.

Swearing at umpires doesn't cost tournaments money, insulting the tournament itself does.

If i wanted to see altercations, i'd sit my ass on my couch and turn on the TV looking for another realishit show

gomarray
01-11-2007, 05:51 PM
Mr. Slave,

I wholeheartedly agree with you, but the general public unfortunately tends to buy into this realishit.

nobama
01-11-2007, 05:52 PM
What players are talking about forming a new association? :confused:

Davydenko can speak for himself but he shouldn't speak for other players. There was a better way to get his point across with out insulting the tournament and all those who work at the event and the fans who bought tickets. Nobody was forcing him to play there anyway.

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 05:53 PM
What players are talking about forming a new association? :confused:

Davydenko can speak for himself but he shouldn't speak for other players. There was a better way to get his point across with out insulting the tournament and all those who work at the event and the fans who bought tickets. Nobody was forcing him to play there anyway.

I don't remember exactly which of the French said something like: "what do they want? A revolution and a new association?".

Mateya
01-11-2007, 06:07 PM
Russia's Nikolay Davydenko has been fined $10,000 after making disparaging remarks about the Sydney International.

He claimed on Wednesday that players had pulled out of the last major warm-up for the Australian Open because they did not care about the event."


:confused: :retard: :retard:

If thats worth 10000$ then I would be afraid to spek again. He just told the truth :rolleyes: and didn´t directly insulted tournament...damn.
ATP, come on...

morningglory
01-11-2007, 06:07 PM
:haha: Wait til you're famous and accomplished and the sport truly owes you something or when tournaments start paying gigantic appearance fees for your presence to make a comment like that, and even then, make it sparingly :lol: Nikolay should be better informed of where he stands in the scheme of things after this.

cmurray
01-11-2007, 06:18 PM
sigh. What ARE the players allowed to talk about?b

RickDaStick
01-11-2007, 06:56 PM
What did you expect? By bashing the tournament he is also bashing the ATP. The ATP is his employer. What if you were to go to a local newspaper and bash your company. Do you think they would ignore it or punish you? Im willing to bet there would be consequences.

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 07:01 PM
What did you expect? By bashing the tournament he is also bashing the ATP. The ATP is his employer. What if you were to go to a local newspaper and bash your company. Do you think they would ignore it or punish you? Im willing to bet there would be consequences.

Wrong. It's called the Association of Tennis Professionals. In fact, he's one of the members, and Disney is his employee, not the other way around.

RickDaStick
01-11-2007, 07:08 PM
Wrong. It's called the Association of Tennis Professionals. In fact, he's one of the members, and Disney is his employee, not the other way around.

well if that's the case then surely Davydenko will not pay the fine and there will be no consequences?

Black Adam
01-11-2007, 07:11 PM
:yeah: :haha: This actually the first thing of sense that Disney has done, I mean put yourselves in the place of the Sydney fans or Organisers.

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 07:14 PM
well if that's the case then surely Davydenko will not pay the fine and there will be no consequences?

I wouldn't play. One thing would be the members (the players) gathering and fining me, another is a stupid no-one that probably never played any competitive tennis coming to me and saying what I should say about my job.

Fed-Express
01-11-2007, 07:19 PM
sigh. What ARE the players allowed to talk about?b
They are free to talk about anything that isn't derogatory to the sport and the Organisation that pays them millions of Dollars.

What people seem to forget is, that Nicky is after all in a sense working for the ATP and the tournament; in exchange he receives huge money and fame (well...;)). All the people insulting the ATP or blindly attacking DeVilliers which has become quite common here (testament to the lack of independent thinking); just imagine how your company would react if you attacked it in public - certainly the reaction would be quite similar.
And:
Many here seem to be totally unaware of the importance of the ATP and of the huge job it is doing. You expect the tournaments to magically organize by themselves and the millions of dollars emerging out of thin air just because Roger plays so beautiful or Rafa fascinates the crowds. The weeks and weeks of organisation, of searching sponsors (which is a tiresome job) , coordinating hundreds of people, finding volunteers, calculating and recalcalculating everything again and again is what make the tournament possible, any many apparently discount the work behind it.
With his comments Nicky has not only that he doesn't care about the mighty ATP as many of you think but also the many people that work so hard to make a tournament successful and nice for the fans, from the guy that found the sponsors (which certainly wasn't easy) to the driver. Saying the tournament doesn't matter to no important player is more than a slap in the face, it is an outright insult to all their efforts.

Despite his high rank Davydenko is fortunately in terms of media presence just some second tier guy who doesn't speak proper english and and has apparently forgotten how to smile since he saw himself in the mirror; if Federer, Nadal, Safin, Arod or someone similar would have made this comment, the damage might have been immeasurably bigger. Fortunately these guys posses manners and know how to behave properly.

The fine is more than justified, it is needed if the ATP wants to stop their players from dismantling their own sport in the media.

Black Adam
01-11-2007, 07:23 PM
well if that's the case then surely Davydenko will not pay the fine and there will be no consequences?
There will consequences and that will be the Last we ever heard about Davydenko.

Galathea
01-11-2007, 07:25 PM
Freedom of speach only means that you aren't going to be censored... not that you're not going to suffer the consecuences of your words if they offended someone. At least that's what means in my country and in the major part of the world.
No right is absolute. Davydenko was not censored.. it's not like Mr Disney stopped the publication of his words. He was sancioned. And, I can't believe I'm going to say this (really I'm going to hate Kolya for putting me in this possition of agreeing with this guy), Mr Disney is right.
There are a lot of players that speak english bad. But you know when someone is being an asshole and when someone sounds rude because his vocabulary is limited. Sorry but I don't think the poor english is the case here. I think someone got the ATP 3 thing in his head, badly. There's no excuse for this. Even if he's right, he can't say that for respect to the people of the tournament. Not the ATP itself. After all he played more unisteresting tournaments than Sydney :rolleyes:

GlennMirnyi
01-11-2007, 07:29 PM
They are free to talk about anything that isn't derogatory to the sport and the Organisation that pays them millions of Dollars.
What people seem to forget is, that Nicky is after all in a sense working for the ATP and the tournament; in exchange he receives huge money and fame (well...;)). All the people insulting the ATP or blindly attacking DeVilliers which has become quite common here (testament to the lack of independent thinking); just imagine how your company would react if you attacked it in public - certainly the reaction would be quite similar.
And:
Many here seem to be totally unaware of the importance of the ATP and of the huge job it is doing. You expect the tournaments to magically organize by themselves and the millions of dollars emerging out of thin air just because Roger plays so beautiful or Rafa fascinates the crowds. The weeks and weeks of organisation, of searching sponsors (which is a tiresome job) , coordinating hundreds of people, finding volunteers, calculating and recalcalculating everything again and again is what make the tournament possible, any many apparently discount the work behind it.
With his comments Nicky has not only that he doesn't care about the mighty ATP as many of you think but also the many people that work so hard to make a tournament successful and nice for the fans, from the guy that found the sponsors (which certainly wasn't easy) to the driver. Saying the tournament doesn't matter to no important player is more than a slap in the face, it is an outright insult to all their efforts.

Despite his high rank Davydenko is fortunately in terms of media presence just some second tier guy who doesn't speak proper english and and has apparently forgotten how to smile since he saw himself in the mirror; if Federer, Nadal, Safin, Arod or someone similar would have made this comment, the damage might have been immeasurably bigger. Fortunately these guys posses manners and know how to behave properly.

The fine is more than justified, it is needed if the ATP wants to stop their players from dismantling their own sport in the media.

And how does the ATP gets this money? It gets because of the PLAYERS, that attract sponsors to the game and spectators to the tournaments.


Freedom of speach only means that you aren't going to be censored... not that you're not going to suffer the consecuences of your words if they offended someone. At least that's what means in my country and in the major part of the world.
No right is absolute. Davydenko was not censored.. it's not like Mr Disney stopped the publication of his words. He was sancioned. And, I can't believe I'm going to say this (really I'm going to hate Kolya for putting me in this possition of agreeing with this guy), Mr Disney is right.
There are a lot of players that speak english bad. But you know when someone is being an asshole and when someone sounds rude because his vocabulary is limited. Sorry but I don't think the poor english is the case here. I think someone got the ATP 3 thing in his head, badly. There's no excuse for this. Even if he's right, he can't say that for respect to the people of the tournament. Not the ATP itself. After all he played more unisteresting tournaments than Sydney :rolleyes:

Yeah, but it's censoring other players about it. How will a 160-something in the world say something? 10000$ is a lot of money to these lower-ranked guys.

Via
01-11-2007, 07:52 PM
well i'm a fan in sydney and let me speak for myself.

i have been going to the tournament for years and this year's drop-out rate does seem to be unusual. for whatever reasons, i suppose it's different for each player, but there may also be some kind of herd mentality in the locker room... if some players look like they have other priorities/problems and would rather be in melbourne quickly, then perhaps others may be affected and start to feel the same. it is not an impossible scenario.

as for nicolay... well i was there at the match when he defaulted. it was a surprise as it was rather sudden and no trainer was called. i was definitely disappointed to have the match end that way, and although i wasn't his fan in particular, i did wish to see him in action live, and thought it would be a high quality match. when i read about those comments, oh yes i was offended. not what i would want to hear after paying for my tickets and attending the tournament in my enthusiasm, and it wasn't just about that one match, but it was about all other players and all other matches, it just degraded everything for me.

however he did make some valid points about the court surface (that it being slow and not comparable with melbourne's anymore) which have not been given attention by the media, and the rest of you - everyone just focuses on the more sensational comment that 'no one cares'. that's why i'm concerned about the fine - yes i am offended, but i do want to hear the truth and i don't want any fine to stop a player from speaking up about any concern.

if the atp is justified according to their rules that disrepectful comments should be fined, then i want to know what they intend to do about the source of the problem in the first place. otherwise i will start to believe too that my home tournament is not up to scratch for whatever reason that is being covered up, and i will think twice about my future attendance.

Galathea
01-11-2007, 07:56 PM
Yeah, but it's censoring other players about it. How will a 160-something in the world say something? 10000$ is a lot of money to these lower-ranked guys.


So what? With that criteria the ATP must let a player, the actual number 3, bash a tournament?! Are you serious......Obviously the sancion is a way to prevent futures situations like that! Any reprimand in any the legal order has that function! That's one of the premise of any legal order: not do something because the consecuences. For God sake!! I think a lot of people here have a very distorted idea about what freedom of speach really is and how it works :rolleyes:

The other players, number 160 or 1.000.000 can say the same thing. But if they do, they will have to pay. Probably less money (at least on this the ATP has some sense, what they made pay a top player usually is not the same than what they made pay a player ranked 300), but they will have to pay.
YOu can't go around insulting people like some sport. You are responsable for your words. Period.

ps14mn18
01-11-2007, 09:00 PM
If Davydenko feels that it's a tournament no one cares about, he could have taken a week off. It is okay to take a week off Nikolay so you don't have to play in all these tournaments that no one cares about.

R.Federer
01-11-2007, 09:04 PM
That is an unusual set of double standards when you pay $10K for an insult against an amorphous entity like a tournament organization, but nothing when in plain sight and earshot of thousands of people on TV and in the stands, you can call umpires freakin' morons and worse, and get no fine. It is a set of double standards that Villiers will have to justify better.

You think Federer or Nadal or Safin or one of the other greats will have got this fine if they said it?

So what? With that criteria the ATP must let a player, the actual number 3, bash a tournament?! Are you serious......Obviously the sancion is a way to prevent futures situations like that! Any reprimand in any the legal order has that function! That's one of the premise of any legal order: not do something because the consecuences. For God sake!! I think a lot of people here have a very distorted idea about what freedom of speach really is and how it works :rolleyes:

The other players, number 160 or 1.000.000 can say the same thing. But if they do, they will have to pay. Probably less money (at least on this the ATP has some sense, what they made pay a top player usually is not the same than what they made pay a player ranked 300), but they will have to pay.
YOu can't go around insulting people like some sport. You are responsable for your words. Period.

R.Federer
01-11-2007, 09:05 PM
If Davydenko feels that it's a tournament no one cares about, he could have taken a week off. It is okay to take a week off Nikolay so you don't have to play in all these tournaments that no one cares about.

That was not his quote. It is not for him to take the week off, but the others.

"He claimed on Wednesday that players had pulled out of the last major warm-up for the Australian Open because they did not care about the event
"
He was talking about the other players.

DrJules
01-11-2007, 09:22 PM
Player seem to be allowed to swear and act like idiots on court and receive no penalties. This seems so inconsistent.

When are they going to address so much of the less civil aspects which occur on court!!!

Shabazza
01-11-2007, 09:48 PM
Great post. :yeah:

It's funny because someone else posted an anecdote about JHH recently (either here or at WTAWorld, I don't remember) about how the crowd booed her after she won New Haven when she said she would not play there in 2007. She quickly clarified, saying that she wanted to be honest with the crowd since she'd prefer to rest before the USO, and the booing became a standing ovation. :shrug:

My problem with Davydenko getting fined is that he was talking about players dropping out of Sydney (which, like New Haven, is a pre-Grand Slam "warm up" tournament) and he didn't have a similar chance to clarify himself. He was asked a pointed/leading question by a journo as to what he thought about all the withdrawals in Sydney and he gave his answer; the media blew up that answer into something bigger than it actually was and went to the defending champion (Blake) to see if they could get his response stir up more drama, and clearly they got what they wanted.

I noticed plenty of people on MTF and WTAW thinking and saying exactly what Davydenko said re. Sydney, except now that a player has actually addressed the elephant in the room there are all these people saying that he could have at least worded himself differently. Right. A non-native speaker of English is asked a leading question in English and replies to it in English, and we're expecting perfectly PC prose? Not even Roger can pull that off all the time.

I think it's ridiculous that he's being fined $10,000 for what he's said. Sure, $10,000 is relatively little in the life of a Top Ten player, but neither is Nikolay a player with tons of endorsements coming out the wazoo. Davydenko made absolutely no personal attacks in his comments, he is not a player who swears at tournament staff or acts like an idiot on court, and I don't think anyone who takes what he said in context seriously believes that his intent was to disparage the Sydney tournament.

I don't think either Blake or Davydenko should be fined, but if some honest speculation about why players are dropping like flies on both the men's and women's side during the first tournament of the year merits a $10,000 fine for "ruining the image of the sport," I wonder what the fine is when a Top Ten player like Blake makes a bunch of passive-aggressive personal remarks about a fellow Top Ten player's tournament scheduling and "ruins the image of the sport." :shrug:

Oh well. If anything I suppose Kolya should be pleased that enough people are finally paying attention to what he says that he's being taken seriously enough to be fined for his less PC comments. :haha:
:worship:
Word! That's exactly why I find the hyocrisy of some posters here rather funny! They want the players to state their opinion and views on this subject, but if indeed someone points out some reasons for the withdrawals of most players before a GS, they are the first to feel "offended" and bash him.
Yeah Davydenko is surly known for being an asshole and bashing other players and tournaments!

MariaV
01-11-2007, 09:49 PM
He deserves it. There's a diference between speaking your mind and being an asshole: By insulting the tournament, he spited on the face of linesmen, volunteers, etc. He dissed the effort of tons of people. Etienne is an asshole too, but take it to him, not to the tourny.
Really dissapointed with Kolya. Play less, bang your wife more :ras:

Exactly.
Mind you no-one forced him to play 30+ tournaments last year and play Sydney after Doha. No one forced him to sign up for Sydney. He could have flown to Melbourne right from Doha.
Even if I think he didn't mean to insult the tournament staff it wasn't a nice thing to say.

Galathea
01-11-2007, 09:50 PM
Player seem to be allowed to swear and act like idiots on court and receive no penalties. This seems so inconsistent.

When are they going to address so much of the less civil aspects which occur on court!!!


It's not the same insult a fellow player in court than dismiss/bash a tournament. For them, the second it's an attack to the ATP.
Also, players get fined for what they do on court. Well, let's not mention McEnroe, but very recent cases (argies because those are the ones I know the most or think first, sorry ;) ) How much do you think Nalbandian had to paid when he insulted the umpire, I mean that match where David was protesting a ball (and I have to said, the umpire was blind and has saying anything for both players) and the umpire started to act patronizing with Nalbo and said to him if "I were your father I'd tell you" and Nalbandian went nutts (that was a couple of months after his father died) and insulted him? Or CHela with the spitting to Hewitt? I think they had to paid more than this. Not to mention that in Nalbo's case also the umpire descounted two games. And Chela, I think lost some points too (not sure)

They have to pay. But, and I'm not talking about this case in particular but in general, bashing an ATP tournament is alsmot the same that offending the ATP. Don't know the term on English, but it's like insulting a President. It's not personal, you're insulting The president. Even if you're right and the guy is a jerk or you talked about the person not the charge. At least in my country, you're insulting the president invertidure not the man (sorry, again, not sure about the english term).

That's the difference between being a jerk on court and bashing a tournament. We can agree or not, but that's the POV of the ATP, and I tend to agree about that difference, of course we have to see the cases in particular, but in general I see some logic on that

Kalliopeia
01-11-2007, 09:55 PM
Player seem to be allowed to swear and act like idiots on court and receive no penalties. This seems so inconsistent.

When are they going to address so much of the less civil aspects which occur on court!!!

Being a jackass on court gets attention and they think people will pay money to see someone come out and be a jerk. No one really believes that it's about respect for the Sydney tournament, do they? It's all about money.

So what? With that criteria the ATP must let a player, the actual number 3, bash a tournament?! Are you serious......Obviously the sancion is a way to prevent futures situations like that!

So first you say it isn't censorship, then when someone explains how it is in fact censorship, you say so what? There is no "situation." Davydenko wasn't insulting the tournament. He wasn't insulting the fans. If he's insulting anyone it's the players who pulled out, but I wouldn't even go that far. Everyone knows what Davydenko said is true. This tournament is a warm up for the AO, and no one is going to take a chance on their fitness for the AO for Sydney.

The fine is completely uncalled for. But it'll do the trick, no one will want to say anything that the ATP might deem "disparaging" after this.

Saumon
01-11-2007, 10:06 PM
btw players can't bash the ATP and tournament directors but can they bash other players publicly? :scratch:

Galathea
01-11-2007, 10:11 PM
So first you say it isn't censorship, then when someone explains how it is in fact censorship, you say so what? There is no "situation." Davydenko wasn't insulting the tournament. He wasn't insulting the fans. If he's insulting anyone it's the players who pulled out, but I wouldn't even go that far. Everyone knows what Davydenko said is true. This tournament is a warm up for the AO, and no one is going to take a chance on their fitness for the AO for Sydney.

The fine is completely uncalled for. But it'll do the trick, no one will want to say anything that the ATP might deem "disparaging" after this.

Wish I could post this on spanish. Not saying something because if you insult someone or something (in general, not in this case) you could be sancioned or go to jail (again, talking about in genreal about the legal system) is not censoring is asuming your responsabilities for what you said. Censoring is someone calling the press and forbbiden to publicate something. That's censoring.

Here it's saying "you insult, you paid... you can insult, but you're responsable for that". The legal system is based of that. You know if you kill you go to jail. It's not forbbiden to kill, but it generates consencuences. If you do it, you know what will happen. Or that is censoring??

I think a lot of people has confused some general legal concepts: actions-consecuenses and when something is/isn't censure . Not even talking about this case in particular
Also, for more information, what the legal systems tends to forbbide is the previous censure, like I said not letting speak someone (in this case would be Mr Disney banning Davydenko's declaration, wich didn't happen). The legal systems don't forbbide sanctions if what you're free to say/do insults,hurts, etc someone. If you don't do it because you can go to jail or have to pay money, it's your choice. You can do it, if you're willing to go to jail or pay, you're free to do it. Sanctions for acts that hurt/insult something or someone it's the way to keep the order in any country, society even family. That's the difference. Huge difference.

Now in this case in particular we can discuss if what he said was an insult or not. Not the fact that paying 10.000 is "censoring"

soraya
01-11-2007, 10:20 PM
Oh well. If anything I suppose Kolya should be pleased that enough people are finally paying attention to what he says that he's being taken seriously enough to be fined for his less PC comments. :haha:

:haha:. On a serious note I agree with you and Via in every aspect of this whole situation.

Kalliopeia
01-11-2007, 10:20 PM
Wish I could post this on spanish. Not saying something because if you insult someone or something (in general, not in this case) you could be sancioned or go to jail (again, talking about in genreal about the legal system) is not censoring is asuming your responsabilities for what you said. Censoring is someone calling the press and forbbiden to publicate something. That's censoring.

Here it's saying "you insult, you paid... you can insult, but you're responsable for that". The legal system is based of that. You know if you kill you go to jail. It's not forbbiden to kill, but it generates consencuences. If you do it, you know what will happen. Or that is censoring??

I think a lot of people has confused some general legal concepts: actions-consecuenses and when something is/isn't censure . Not even talking about this case in particular
Also, for more information, what the legal systems tends to forbbide is the previous censure, like I said not letting speak someone (in this case would be Mr Disney banning Davydenko's declaration, wich didn't happen). The legal systems don't forbbide sanctions if what you're free to say/do insults,hurts, etc someone. If you don't do it because you can go to jail or have to pay money, it's your choice. You can do it, if you're willing to go to jail or pay, you're free to do it. Sanctions it's the way to keep the order. That's the difference. Huge difference.

Well you're talking in a strictly legal sense. But what's happening here, while not illegal, works just as effectively and is just as wrong. Davydenko's comments aren't going to cause any disorder or upheaval. It just made the ATP mad.

gogogirl
01-11-2007, 10:39 PM
All,

Well....... if the case is that many feel but don't voice the fact that to them warm up tourneys before slams are a waste - then why don't the powers that be just do away w/them? For instance - why don't they drop the one at the Queens Club in Britain that Hewitt won or the Las Vegas tourney that James won, and/or the one that Tommy won in Florida - and so on and so forth? Why not just turn the ATP Tour into a field of Masters and Slams?

Also, though I feel the fine is toooooooooo steep - Mr. Disney must have consulted w/others and decided to treat it like they do when they fine players for pulling out of tourneys that they had originally signed up for yet withdrew at the last minute and after the draw was let loose. In Davy's case - he not only showed up - but he withdrew during a match and w/o a medical reason, and no trainer was called for.

I am not totally in agreement w/the fine or the amount - but like some have so eloquently stated - the salt was doubly rubbed into the wound after Davy jumped ship. If he had made the statement whilst playing where Roger & Andy et al are playing - may haps there wouldn't have been a fine. Me thinks he stuck his foot in his mouth by retiring from a match for no for sure good reason and then added insult to injury by making those comments. Not saying I am spot on - just offering up my opinion.

And remember how hot Lindsay got when Larry Scott wouldn't give her a wildcard to the Canadian (wasn't it?) tourney because he wanted to teach her some kind of lesson for not appearing in a couple of others that she withdrew from.

And the beat played on and the plot thickened.

P.S. Maria was given a hefty fine for pulling out of a tourney last year too.

Black Adam
01-13-2007, 09:25 AM
Davydenko is being a hypocrite here.

Q. One of your fellow players has been rather dismissive of the

Sydney tournament. How important would you say warm-up

tournaments are?


Andy Roddick :I think that kind of depends on the person, you know.

Personally, I like to be playing well and I like to be getting

matches in the lead-up to an event.

That was coming from the same guy who I think won a

tournament before Roland Garros last year and the tournament the

week before the US Open last year, if I'm not mistaken. So,

I don't know -- you can take that for what it's worth.

gulzhan
01-13-2007, 09:30 AM
Davydenko is being a hypocrite here.



Davydenko said what every one thinks, it's Blake who is a hypocrite.... :mad: Playing a politician :eek: I think it's stupid to do that while still being an active player, he'll have plenty of time after he quits :o Couldn't wait a little? :shrug:

mer
01-13-2007, 11:07 AM
No, the modus operandi here is to twist the interpretation by taking what he says literally, blow it out of proportion, and cry hypocrisy where there is none. Typical MTF.
:worship:

nobama
01-13-2007, 11:08 AM
Davydenko didn't say what everyone thinks. I didn't see the Blake/Moya match. But I did watch the womens final on TTC and to suggest that either of them didn't care about the tournament is ridiculous. It's a womens match and it lasted 2 1/2 hours for gods sake. Both players were fighting like crazy and the crowd was quite roudy. Reminded me of a night match at AA or RL.

mer
01-13-2007, 11:16 AM
Davydenko didn't say what everyone thinks. I didn't see the Blake/Moya match. But I did watch the womens final on TTC and to suggest that either of them didn't care about the tournament is ridiculous. It's a womens match and it lasted 2 1/2 hours for gods sake. Both players were fighting like crazy and the crowd was quite roudy. Reminded me of a night match at AA or RL.
They are pros and for sure those who chose to play the event and especially once they are in the final they take it seriously and care and want to win. But those who pulled out didn't care much apparently as AO is more important. Davydenko was asked why they pulled out and he gave his answer.

nobama
01-13-2007, 11:51 AM
They are pros and for sure those who chose to play the event and especially once they are in the final they take it seriously and care and want to win. But those who pulled out didn't care much apparently as AO is more important. Davydenko was asked why they pulled out and he gave his answer.I'm sure the people in Sydney know that AO is more important than their event. But there's a difference between saying nobody cares about your event and saying players want to be cautious going into AO and not risk anything. This is why I think the fine was silly because I'm guessing what Davydenko said and what he really meant were two different things. For me this just highlights the whole issue of having a tournament the week before a slam starts. I think the week before a slam should be free from tournaments.

krystlel
01-13-2007, 12:04 PM
I thought the meaning of Davydenko's response was quite clear when combined with the wording of the question asked. It was only when the media decided to leave the question out and only included the "no one cares" bit in the articles that it became misinterpreted. While the comment may have been disrespectful to the tournament, I don't really like the criticism he has been getting when he was just speculating on why so many others pulled out and not what he thought of the tournament.

Rosebud
01-13-2007, 12:30 PM
Yes, the fine does come across a tad silly, but players are not children and ATP are justified by their regulations to hand out fines if they think a player's actions might harm one of their events. Perhaps the fans are unaware of this but I'd be surprised if that was the case for players.

As for Davy merely having said what everyone else thinks. Well, point is one simply doesn't always blurt out what one thinks. Perhaps people think that because this is acceptable behaviour on messageboards (in another thread I read comments about Bud Collins apparantly being crazy and senile) that this also holds true for the real world. Please, try it out in the real world and see for yourself whether or not there are consequences.

I don't understand this tendency to pamper the players to the extent as we see these days. What on earth is wrong with having tournaments in the weeks prior to slams? Certainly a player is able to decide for himself whether or not he thinks it's right to sign up for one or not. And if there were none, there would probably be enough players complaining about that too. Davydenko certainly doesn't seem to have any problems with making his mind up on whether or not to play them. Look at his schedule from last year:
-Played Doha and Sydney prior to the Oz open.
-Plays and wins Poertschach right in the week prior to the French.
-Queens and Ordina right before Wimbledon.
-Plays and wins New Haven week prior to the US.
I'm surprised untill now we haven't heard him inform the world of the fact that those too are non-events.

gulzhan
01-13-2007, 12:36 PM
Davydenko didn't say what everyone thinks. I didn't see the Blake/Moya match. But I did watch the womens final on TTC and to suggest that either of them didn't care about the tournament is ridiculous. It's a womens match and it lasted 2 1/2 hours for gods sake. Both players were fighting like crazy and the crowd was quite roudy. Reminded me of a night match at AA or RL.

:confused: any example from Roger's practie? :p

all davydenko said was that the tournaments right before GS even are not of the same priority, it's obvious, Blake critisizing him is dirty politics, you arguing to it is pure stubborness and th big guy making Davydenko pay is outrageous :eek: :eek: :eek:

Kalliopeia
01-13-2007, 02:11 PM
I don't understand this tendency to pamper the players to the extent as we see these days. What on earth is wrong with having tournaments in the weeks prior to slams?

Nothing wrong with having a tournament, but if the people running it want it the week before a slam, they shouldn't complain if the players withdraw at the first hint of anything that might threaten their fitness. Nor should reporters go around asking stupid questions about why players kept dropping out.

Experimentee
01-13-2007, 03:16 PM
I dont think he deserved the fine because he was just speaking the truth. Maybe he shouldnt have said no one cares, but of course the players care more about the AO. I think everyone knows that.

Sparko1030
01-13-2007, 06:16 PM
Seems a bit ironic that Mr Disney should fine the player who participates in more tournaments than just about anyother player in the ATP. He wants better player "attendace" at events and then treats his shinning example like this? And besides, I would say he and all players have a right to their opinions and should not be afraid to express them. Perhaps Mr Disney is worried of the prospect of more disparaging remarks about his "brilliant" round robin system and is sending a message.....

Leo
01-14-2007, 03:05 AM
Wow, Davydenko doesn't deserve this at all. $10,000 for a meaningless side comment? DV is a tyrant! I really like the idea of players brancing out and forming a rebel association. Let's think Virginia Slims, guys! Someone needs to stand up to the idiot dictator who is ruining our sport.

Thank god for the tradition of Slams... I don't see best of 3 or round robin happening at those events any time soon.

Leo
01-14-2007, 03:06 AM
I dont think he deserved the fine because he was just speaking the truth. Maybe he shouldnt have said no one cares, but of course the players care more about the AO. I think everyone knows that.

:worship:

I actually find it really, really scary that a lot of posters in this thread think Nikolay deserves such a large fine, or even a fine at all, for that comment. Sydney is a lead-up event to AO, plain and simple.

Ernham
01-14-2007, 05:33 PM
Heh. Blake reveals what a poor sport loser he is. Did you have fun defending your Mickey Mouse title Blakey-boy? I like Davy ten times better now. He just says things the way they are. Heh.

Hugh Jaas
01-14-2007, 05:53 PM
WHY $10,000?
Greg rusedski only got fined $3,000 for swearing during wimbledon 2003, Thanks MR Disney for destroying the sport.

WARNING FOUL LANGUAGE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZS_zyaQdEI

"fu*king ridiculus"
"wa*ker in the crowd"
"absolutely sh*t"

mer
01-14-2007, 06:05 PM
WHY $10,000?
Greg rusedski only got fined $3,000 for swearing during wimbledon
that's not the point. He shouldn't be fined. $10,000 or $1 doesn't matter.

tangerine_dream
01-14-2007, 06:33 PM
The excuses in here are a joke. "He was just being honest." :retard: There's a difference between being honest and being less than mature and tactful. His comments reek of sour grapes.

How about he try acting like a grown-up and show some respect for a tournament that he says "nobody cares about" but they all showed up to play it anyway? They clearly have enough respect for it to show up, take the money, and run.

If Nadal had said such a thing half of you in here defending Davydenko would be all over him like flies on shit and you know it.

Good on Roddick for calling Davydenko out on his b.s. too :yeah:
Q. One of your fellow players has been rather dismissive of the Sydney tournament. How important would you say warm-up tournaments are?

A. I think that kind of depends on the person, you know. Personally, I like to be playing well and I like to be getting matches in the lead-up to an event. That was coming from the same guy who I think won a tournament before Roland Garros last year and the tournament the week before the US Open last year, if I'm not mistaken. So, I don't know -- you can take that for what it's worth.
Apparently Davydenko only cares about warm-out tournaments when he wins them. :p

Ernham
01-14-2007, 06:42 PM
I think this is just a result of overly sensitive Aussies that for the better part of the last century held a suppose Grand Slam in their country that the majority of players hardly cared about winning. Oh, and the precious egos of Andy "I'll take anything I can get these days" Roddick and James "are we in disneyland yet" Blake.

sondraj06
01-14-2007, 06:44 PM
That's right. sometimes it just pays to keep your mout shut. I don't know why it's so hard for grown A** people to learn that. you'd think after so many years on earth they'd have it down by now, oh well. And I like the fact that someone, mentioned the unfairness of fans sometimes when it comes to nadal because if it was him, people would be flarring.

Galathea
01-14-2007, 06:53 PM
Well, in response to the "I can't believe people here supported the fine" I'd say I can't believe people here can mess basic terms!
The problem, at least what I talked about, it's when posters started to call the "freedom of speach" and "censure" without the minimum sense of logic and showing that they know a sh**t about that theme.

Here's the thing IF what Davydenko said is considered an insult or bash to the tournament the fine can't be discussed because it's a direct offense to the ATP, like it or not, is worst than insulting a fellow player, an umpire: it's a direct insult to the ATP.
We can discuss if Davydenko meant to say an offense or the "poor english" excuse is valid. But we can't discuss that bashing a tournament deserves such punishment.

The problem here started, at least with me, when people started to use phrases like freedom of speach, censure, etc that often are used in a maner that's not correct and here was a typical example: freedom of speach, doesn't mean no responsabilities for what you said. If you insult someone you have to pay. PERIOD! Now, IN THIS case we can discuss if Kolya insulted or not, but we can't discuss that bashing the ATP deserves such a fine, as general and valid rule

What, next? Are we going to discuss that killing someone just because you were bored can't be punished with jail because that's "censure"?! :eek:

Let's be clear about something: nobody can't discuss that murdering leads to jail. We CAN discuss if killing a person is murder or there are justifications (self defense, etc) or the acussed is not the one who did it. That's what trials are for.... But we can't discuss that considered guilty he won't go to jail because that's censure for the other people that have right to kill!!!!
Here's the same. We can discuss is Davydenko meant to insult the ATP tournament or not.(think in the analogy of a trial to see if someone murdered a person) But we can't said "freedom of speach", a right that caused several deads to obtain in certains countries, like some cheap terms of defense! If he freely (and there you have the freedom and not censure thing) said something that's considered and insult he must pay.
Are we clear? Jeez!

nobama
01-14-2007, 06:57 PM
By defending Davydenko people can bitch and moan about the ATP and DeVilliers. And of course that's the "in" thing to do these days.

Galathea
01-14-2007, 06:59 PM
By defending Davydenko people can bitch and moan about the ATP and DeVilliers. And of course that's the "in" thing to do these days.

The worst thing.... I'm against DeVilliers!! I can't believe I'm deffending him.
Danm:mad:

gogogirl
01-14-2007, 08:04 PM
Hey All,

"HAPPY DAWN OF THE 2007 AUSTRALIAN OPEN"

I personally don't have an opinion on whether the fine was in order. I've already commented that I think that the amount of the fine was too steep if in fact the penalty period was in order.

Davy withdrew. Now.......there's your point blank. Was he leading by the way? I forgot? If he withdrew from the match w/no apparent injury - then his comments compounded the situation for the fact that he quit.

As it pertains to James. Folks can cry foul about him until the cows come home - but just like a mic was placed in front of Davy and he had the right to answer the question - so did James. Plus he's the vice president of the player's thingy - so he's out there trying to build up the ATP and not tear it down. Duh!

And for the ones that still want to downplay James' defense of his title - how childish can you get? He had nothing to do with the draw or the players that he had to face. If Roddick - Roger - Hewitt et al had showed up for the Sydney tourney - then James also would have still showed up to defend. And defend he did. And money he made. And points he defended. So for the slow pokes that don't get that - well try - try again.

Ernham
01-14-2007, 08:14 PM
But if you insult someone, the other person WHO HAS THE SAMES CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS THAN YOU, has in the legal system an instrument to defend themself against the damage that peolple caused to them?!!!!


Only if you can PROVE the words caused finacial damage and ONLY if the words were provable lies. This is called libel in the US and Canada.

Ernham
01-14-2007, 08:27 PM
Was he not asked why he thought players were withdrawing in high numbers from the tournaments? I guess I'm just "assuming" he gave his opinion truthfully, no? Additionally, his English skills are things to be noted. They are quite poor. If I recall right he spent his youth in the Ukraine, where they don't learn English, and then went to Germany, where English is essentially never used but is taught-- only in school, which he was too old to go to. What if he had said "people care more about the AO than they do about this tournament", which is what someone fluent in English would have said?

Galathea
01-14-2007, 08:29 PM
Only if you can PROVE the words caused finacial damage and ONLY if the words were provable lies. This is called libel in the US and Canada.

Let's be more specific, because here, it was not a court but a private organization using his sanction power.
Now, if you're part of any organization, the said has authorization (obtain from the legal system, in US and Canada too) to sanction the behaviour that's against their internal rules. Rules known by the offender and taked in consideration by him/her in the moment of became part of said organization. So if the person decides violate the internal reglament, he's free to do it. The organization is also free to sanction the person. From fine to explusion. That's in US and Canada too. More great part of those rules came from US. Except it's okay for US becuase it's not a thirld world country?.. just following your racist comment :(

Other example? if someone post a racist comment (ahem) or any post that's against the rules of a site, the moderators in this or any forum can take reprimands (erasing, banning, etc).

Was he not asked why he thought players were withdrawing in high numbers from the tournaments? I guess I'm just "assuming" he gave his opinion truthfully, no? Additionally, his English skills are things to be noted. They are quite poor. If I recall right he spent his youth in the Ukraine, where they don't learn English, and then went to Germany, where English is essentially never used but is taught-- only in school, which he was too old to go to. What if he had said "people care more about the AO than they do about this tournament", which is what someone fluent in English would have said?

That's another discussion. Arguing if what he said was offensive or not to the tournament and therefore the ATP as entity. But if it's considerated an insult, the ATP has the power to sancion him. The same happens in any "not third world" organization.

mer
01-14-2007, 08:30 PM
If I recall right he spent his youth in the Ukraine, where they don't learn English
:topic: Why do you think they don't learn English in Ukraine? :rolleyes:

Ernham
01-14-2007, 08:33 PM
:topic: Why do you think they don't learn English in Ukraine? :rolleyes:

Because I tutored organic chemistry for two years and once had a student that was a recent immigrant from there that said as much?

mer
01-14-2007, 08:48 PM
That's another discussion. Arguing if what he said was offensive or not to the tournament and therefore the ATP as entity. But if it's considerated an insult, the ATP has the power to sancion him.
Davy didn't intentionally insult ATP. If he had been asked why he w/o and he said because I don't care about this tourney, that would have been an insult. He was asked his opinion on why other players pull out. In fact if he did bash somebody by his comments, it's the players who pulled out, not ATP or the tourney.

Ernham
01-14-2007, 09:03 PM
Well, obviously the ATP hasn't done anything illegal. They aren't stupid. They could also, if they wanted, say that no men weghing over 100 pounds or standing over 4 feet tall will be allowed to play on the tour. No one could say or do anything about it.

"Third worlders" was in reference to numerous countries, 3rd world countries, that 9 times out of 10 live in banana republics with corrupt to the core governments. I'm not going to spend hours carefully crafting a response to ensure that not a single person on the planet could possibly take offense. Hell, the fact that I just used an analogy involving short people could be "offensive". You can get in a tizzy over it but don't expect me to follow.

Kalliopeia
01-14-2007, 09:05 PM
That's another discussion. Arguing if what he said was offensive or not to the tournament and therefore the ATP as entity. But if it's considerated an insult, the ATP has the power to sancion him. The same happens in any "not third world" organization.

The fact that they have the power to sanction him for saying what he said (which is irritating enough) doesn't mean that it was deserved or right. Without even giving him a chance to explain himself they slam him with a ridiculous fine. It's sickening.

lau
01-14-2007, 09:08 PM
"Third worlders" was in reference to numerous countries, 3rd world countries, that 9 times out of 10 live in banana republics with corrupt to the core governments. I'm not going to spend hours carefully crafting a response to ensure that not a single person on the planet could possibly take offense. Hell, the fact that I just used an analogy involving short people could be "offensive". You can get in a tizzy over it but don't expect me to follow.

Like we say here, in this corner of the third world, "No aclares que oscurece" ("Don´t try to make it clear, it´s turning darker") :rolleyes: :p

Galathea
01-14-2007, 09:22 PM
Like we say here, in this corner of the third world, "No aclares que oscurece" ("Don´t try to make it clear, it´s turning darker") :rolleyes: :p


Yep, the explanation was worst....

About the comments of the ATP putting stupid rules about shorter or fatt people, etc. Well, at least in my country, and also US and others (the major part) the players affected CAN do a lot. Any organization can make rules about participation, putting LOGIC limitation. Meaning, if the limitation doesn't have any fundation except discrimination, that limitation could be declared illegal. There was a case here about a school not wanting shorter teachers, one of them went to trial and won it.
So, it's not that the ATP has absolute freedom. For example a lot of punishments from the ATP were revocated or reduced, specially Dopping ones and the ATP didn't like it at all but could do nothing. See Cañas or Puerta (I still don't understand how someone could buy at least partially his story). So, the ATP has its limitations.

tangerine_dream
01-15-2007, 01:15 AM
Please stop with the "English isn't his native tongue" garbage. I've heard him speak English perfect well and he knows damn well what "nobody cares about this tournament" means in English.

And I find it just as ironic that your virgin ears are upset by Roddick's potty mouth but not by Davydenko trashing and insulting an entire tournament. Roddick can curse all he wants, we all do it, including yourself. But he at least shows respect to fans, tournament officials, and his opponents, unlike your hero Davydenko.

Leo
01-15-2007, 01:40 AM
Please stop with the "English isn't his native tongue" garbage. I've heard him speak English perfect well and he knows damn well what "nobody cares about this tournament" means in English.

And I find it just as ironic that your virgin ears are upset by Roddick's potty mouth but not by Davydenko trashing and insulting an entire tournament. Roddick can curse all he wants, we all do it, including yourself. But he at least shows respect to fans, tournament officials, and his opponents, unlike your hero Davydenko.

The point is that everyone is still making a bigger deal out of a tiny comment than it deserves, and with a $10,000 fine you'd think he smacked a ball boy with his racquet and then took a swing at his opponent.

And no, even with all his years of studying English, Nikolay is far from perfect. His comment didn't come out sounding the best, but he meant that, relative to the AO, Sydney is not that important. And it's true. And if Nadal was fined for saying the same thing, I'd be on Nadal's side as well... but let's face it, the ATP isn't about to fine Nadal #10,000. With him, they'd probably let it slide.

Neely
01-15-2007, 01:46 AM
The point is that everyone is still making a bigger deal out of a tiny comment than it deserves, and with a $10,000 fine you'd think he smacked a ball boy with his racquet and then took a swing at his opponent.
are you serious or did you just exaggerate? If he had done that, he would be out of the game for half a year or longer :lol:

I agree a too big deal is made out of this comment, but regarding the monetary issue, for me, $10.000 for a player as him who made several millions so far in his career look exactly like a tiny fine for a tiny comment. As if I got a speeding ticket for 30€ :shrug:

Leo
01-15-2007, 01:55 AM
are you serious or did you just exaggerate? If he had done that, he would be out of the game for half a year or longer :lol:

I agree a too big deal is made out of this comment, but regarding the monetary issue, for me, $10.000 for a player as him who made several millions so far in his career look exactly like a tiny fine for a tiny comment. As if I got a speeding ticket for 30€ :shrug:

Definite exaggeration. ;)

But since someone pointed out that Rusedski's antics at Wimbledon that one year when he went way overboard only got him $3,000... and that Vaidisova at the 2005 US Open with her awful behavior against Petrova only cost her $500... $10,000 is like :eek: :tape: *shakes head*

I really wish someone would speak up for Nikolay and speak out against DV.

Leo
01-15-2007, 01:58 AM
:haha: The same Roddick that P-Mac and Drysdale have said during commentary should take things down a notch and not be so rude to the ump? Have whatever view of Davydenko you want, but my point is that for you to choose to assume the worst about what he said when in context he said nothing that was intended to be an insult is a biased and uninformed decision, plain and simple.

It's true. If DV wants to be fair, he should fine Roddick for today as well. But he won't.

UncleZeke
01-15-2007, 02:02 AM
should have kept his yap shut, but didn't say anything many believe to be true.

napki
01-15-2007, 03:11 AM
Please stop with the "English isn't his native tongue" garbage. I've heard him speak English perfect well and he knows damn well what "nobody cares about this tournament" means in English.


Of course he knows what it means, but if he wanted his words to be an insult he would say it differently.

I often find myself saying things that thinking back i would word differently but i can't afford to run the whole 'tactful-or-not' script in my head every time i talk to somebody. And i end up saying things in english that sometimes are interpreted wrongly, and that wouldn't happen if i spoke my native tongue. That's pretty normal, don't make it into intended bashing because the idea of this tourney being less significant now as the surface differs from the one used at AO isn't something outrageous. I guess Kolya is not used to speak to 'high officials' and he let this slip. He'll survive, of course, but it still sucks.

Ernham
01-15-2007, 06:32 AM
Please stop with the "English isn't his native tongue" garbage. I've heard him speak English perfect well and he knows damn well what "nobody cares about this tournament" means in English.

And I find it just as ironic that your virgin ears are upset by Roddick's potty mouth but not by Davydenko trashing and insulting an entire tournament. Roddick can curse all he wants, we all do it, including yourself. But he at least shows respect to fans, tournament officials, and his opponents, unlike your hero Davydenko.

This is from his ATP "vignette", and being produced by the ATP for a general English speaking audience, they no doubt edited it to be as "good English" as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTQwQx6tFqQ

Gimme break. He speaks "catch phrases" perfectly well, not English.

Ernham
01-15-2007, 06:51 AM
His first statement that is perhaps the best because bits and pieces of it were not edited:

Was six-seven and I seen TV, it was Russia TV. In a sunday, so final to see only Ivan Lendl play because he was number one and he just reach every like first, every week finals. And I see him all time and think always play good. I like him.

That's pretty fluent, really.

Ernham
01-15-2007, 07:32 AM
And no, even with all his years of studying English, Nikolay is far from perfect. His comment didn't come out sounding the best, but he meant that, relative to the AO, Sydney is not that important. And it's true. And if Nadal was fined for saying the same thing, I'd be on Nadal's side as well... but let's face it, the ATP isn't about to fine Nadal #10,000. With him, they'd probably let it slide.

Indeed. I mean, Davy plays in a lot of tournaments, he cares if for no other reason than there is money to be won. Most of these guys, including Davy, did not get into professional tennis because "they cared about it", but only because they could make money at it. He clearly was using a figure of speech to convey that there was a serious lack of interest in the events in question. Had someone asked him immediately after the comment "why do you suppse they don't care?", he would have said " because the AO is just a week away". Like I said, what would have been the outcome of this had he said "No one cares about these smaller tournaments just before the AO because they are focused on getting and staying macth fit for the AO." Is he praising the AO? Dissing the small tournaments? Stinks of trashy British media that perhaps made its way across the pond with all the convicts.

Saumon
01-15-2007, 07:38 AM
does anyone have a full transcript?

Jogy
01-15-2007, 09:50 AM
If you do not behave and bash people and institution who give you money, who make it possible for you that you earn hell of money, then pay up HARD idiot, or take other job where you can say that!

I would fine him at least 200.000 for that to be it a remember for him.

assjerk Kolya, never could stand him! :ras:
classless rich prick player to the volonteer people who spend weeks and take holiday from their normal jobs to work at tournament for such asses like Davydenko

tangerine_dream
01-17-2007, 05:51 PM
Thought some might be interested in this; from Bodo's live chat on ESPN:

Zach (CT): Hey Peter, did Etienne de Villiers go too far with the heavy fine he gave Davydenko? It seems to me that one should be allowed to speak one's mind. Moreover isn't the aggresive approach he is taking, locking in players to non-grand slam tounrnaments, run the risk of backfiring as some players may now commit to less tounrnaments all toghether? I mean I know de Villiers wants the world to realize that tennis is more than the grand slam tounerys, but isn't there a better way to promote/ensure the quality of the non-grand slam events?

Peter Bodo: (1:04 PM ET ) That's a great questions Zach, but de Villiers is caught between a rock and a hard place. the game is being hammered left and right because of players lack of commitment, and their willingness to skip all but the biggest events. At the same time the ATP simply can't affors and may not even have the legal right to restructure the calendar to make it more sensible and friendly to the players needs. It is a sad day when a player gets an enormous fine for saying exactly what he and his comrades all believe and more importantly use as career guidelines.

Black Adam
01-17-2007, 06:04 PM
This reminds me of the Islam jokes in Scandinavian Newspapers last year.
The creators of the jokes said they had freedom of expression whilst the Muslims screamed that nobody should say bad things about Allah, burned as many things as they could before the story faded after widening the gap between the West and the East. :rolleyes:

Davydenko speaks his mind but gets fined because it turns out he was speaking :bs: :devil:

The scandinavian cartoonists were lucky to get away with it because if the Muslims were to do the same thing on Christianity, the KKK would be back in business in the Western World. They played with fire and got away with it, good for them. Davydenko played with fire and didn't get away with it, my bad for him :p

The lesson of the story is don't say things, even if they are true, when you know you will face an angered reaction and that you won't be able to handle the consequences. Express your feelings but mind crossing the line that endagers you.

Hugh Jaas
01-17-2007, 06:10 PM
Now we are comparing Nikolay Davydenko to the KKK?!! welcome to the wacky world of MTF.

i have heard players swear over a dozen times during the AO any they get NO FINES but Nikolay Davydenko says some players tank pointless tournaments that no one cares about and he gets a $10,000 fine. does mr Disney want a revolt?

Deboogle!.
01-17-2007, 06:19 PM
i have heard players swear over a dozen times during the AO any they get NO FINES but Nikolay Davydenko says some players tank pointless tournaments that no one cares about and he gets a $10,000 fine. does mr Disney want a revolt?different governing body, you can't compare them

Black Adam
01-17-2007, 06:22 PM
different governing body, you can't compare them
Besides some players are seen in different light and the governing bodies just doesn't feel like fining them because of who they are.