Mr. Disney Unhappy with Paris Withdrawals [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Mr. Disney Unhappy with Paris Withdrawals

MarieS
10-30-2006, 10:50 PM
ATP chairman Etienne De Villiers acknowledged changes needed to be made to the calendar and said sanctions could be imposed on players to prevent major tournaments losing top names.

"I am both deeply disappointed and concerned by the depletion in the player field for one of ATP's most prestigious events," De Villiers said in a statement.

"Unfortunately this is the third year that withdrawals and injuries have hurt the event and the fans' opportunity to see all their tennis idols.

"This reinforces my determination to introduce meaningful change to the calendar, the structures, the incentives and sanctions needed to have healthy, motivated top players grace our top events."

The ATP chairman did not elaborate on the changes and sanctions planned, nor did he give a time frame.

:rolleyes: Wow, he's a genius. Why didn't anyone think of this before? And clearly, round robin events are going to take care of all the withdrawals. :yeah:

Meanwhile, Cedric Pioline thinks players should be banned. :o

"The tournament organisers seem to have more obligations than the players," said Pioline, a former top 10 player.

"We need a system with sanctions and, having been a player, I can tell you that fines don't work. We need bans."

ATP leadership is amazing. :bounce: :banana:

scoobs
10-30-2006, 10:55 PM
After all his brave talk when he first took over, his proposals to actually improve the calendar so far wouldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding.

I suggest he gets serious about it rather than sitting there whingeing - we've heard that before year in year out and nothing has changed.

Naranoc
10-30-2006, 10:56 PM
So they're going to ban players for being too physically exhausted/injured to take part?? :confused:

...

vogus
10-30-2006, 11:01 PM
"This reinforces my determination to introduce meaningful change to the calendar, the structures, the incentives and sanctions needed to have healthy, motivated top players grace our top events."


wow, i love all the brilliant specific ideas de Villiers is putting forward to fix things. This guy has really done his homework.

GlennMirnyi
10-30-2006, 11:05 PM
So they're going to ban players for being too physically exhausted/injured to take part?? :confused:

...

Well, one thing is being injured. Another, completely different, is retiring because of exhaustion. Nobody puts a gun to your head to play.

Clara Bow
10-30-2006, 11:08 PM
Nobody puts a gun to your head to play.

They just want to ban you if you don't. ;)

Peoples
10-30-2006, 11:09 PM
Bans? If he wants to promote tanking then go ahead...

mangoes
10-30-2006, 11:12 PM
I don't take anything, coming out of that man's mouth, seriously.

Nevertheless, I don't think the idea of fining is impacting the players. I think that a penality system that maybe involves deducting ranking points may be more effective in preventing "because I feel like it" withdrawals.

I can have a lot of sympathy for players, but at the end of the day, the ATP is a business. The players get paid thousands of dollars. So, when fans spend monies for tournaments like the Paris Masters, it's unfair to them to receive, instead, a mickey mouse tournament. However, all the blame does not fall on players. The tournament schedule is the responsibility of the ATP. And when they develop a schedule that calls for back to back Masters events, that's doing a disservice to fans.

GlennMirnyi
10-30-2006, 11:15 PM
They just want to ban you if you don't. ;)

I mean, they are probably saying about doing that to players that quit without a good reason right before the tournament.

Naranoc
10-30-2006, 11:23 PM
That would make sense, except that he talks about 'motivated top players', clearly referring to the withdrawals of:

Federer: Exhausation
Nadal: Injury
Nalbandian: Gastro-enteritis
Roddick: Foot Injury
Ljubicic: Fever/allergies

The only one I see as being invalid is Baghdatis's excuse (tired of people talking to him about tennis and the Masters). Surely those 5 players are the one's he's referring to? :shrug:

Sjengster
10-30-2006, 11:27 PM
If that really is Baghdatis' explanation then he should be penalised right now, never mind in future. Saying that you won't play a big tournament because you can't handle the pressure is ridiculous, if nothing else you could at least try and entertain the crowd who've hardly seen you in action before.

Nitefaery
10-30-2006, 11:29 PM
Players are already being forced to play in order to avoid large fines for retiring or not having a class A, B, or C injury.

GlennMirnyi
10-30-2006, 11:30 PM
That would make sense, except that he talks about 'motivated top players', clearly referring to the withdrawals of:

Federer: Exhausation
Nadal: Injury
Nalbandian: Gastro-enteritis
Roddick: Foot Injury
Ljubicic: Fever/allergies

The only one I see as being invalid is Baghdatis's excuse (tired of people talking to him about tennis and the Masters). Surely those 5 players are the one's he's referring to? :shrug:

You're being serious about Baghdatis' excuse?

Naranoc
10-30-2006, 11:31 PM
Yep:

http://fr.sports.yahoo.com/26102006/26/tennis-ljubicic-roddick-et-baghdatis-forfaits-bercy.html

GlennMirnyi
10-30-2006, 11:32 PM
Then he should go play football or something. That's just ridiculous.

MarieS
10-30-2006, 11:34 PM
:eek: He should be banned then. :o That's just embarrassing.

Tennis Fool
10-30-2006, 11:44 PM
I think Federer should not have played Japan. What was the point if he knew he'd have a full schedule, and the possibility of playing all the finals.

The damage in esteem to Paris makes some posters, who believe Masters events aren't notable, more credible.

Tennis Fool
10-30-2006, 11:47 PM
Players are already being forced to play in order to avoid large fines for retiring or not having a class A, B, or C injury.

Then they need to schedule more wisely and stop playing Mickey Mouse tournaments and exhibitions for the appearance fees.

Dirk
10-31-2006, 12:24 AM
I think they should force to the players to play only 3 optional events instead of 5. That would help.

Damita
10-31-2006, 12:49 AM
Nevertheless, I don't think the idea of fining is impacting the players. I think that a penality system that maybe involves deducting ranking points may be more effective in preventing "because I feel like it" withdrawals.Only because the fines are ridiculously low :p Now imagine if they got fined with (at least) the same amount of money they get to play tournaments like say, Bangkok or Beijing... that would probably help them to show more respect for the year-end AMS! :mad: :rolleyes:
In the last 3-4 years a lot of top players clearly made the choice to enter those tournaments and get the juicy appearance fees (same with exhibitions)... and when Madrid and Paris start, they're either really tired/injured because of that idiotic schedule the ATP maintains every year, or they just withdraw with a lame excuse to try avoid the fine. And even if they got fined, they'd still lose less than what they get with appearance fees only in the other events the previous weeks :rolleyes: Targetting their wallets will work only if you take back a significant amount of money :p
I can have a lot of sympathy for players, but at the end of the day, the ATP is a business. The players get paid thousands of dollars. So, when fans spend monies for tournaments like the Paris Masters, it's unfair to them to receive, instead, a mickey mouse tournament. However, all the blame does not fall on players. The tournament schedule is the responsibility of the ATP. And when they develop a schedule that calls for back to back Masters events, that's doing a disservice to fans.I totally agree about the ATP's part of responsability. But the 'back to back Masters events' arguments doesn't really work. There are other back to back Masters Series in the year and they don't suffer half the prestigious losses that Madrid and Paris suffer each year. Unless you mean they suffer of being back to back in addition to being at the end of the year. Then yes, I guess it doesn't help them. :awww:

But it's the same discussion every year, players complain about the schedule (that's quite hypocritical from those who go play smaller tournies or exhibitions for huge appearance fees), fans complain as well, and yet the ATP leaders act like they hear nothing :fiery: money, money, money :p

Deboogle!.
10-31-2006, 01:55 AM
Only because the fines are ridiculously low :p Now imagine if they got fined with (at least) the same amount of money they get to play tournaments like say, Bangkok or Beijing... that would probably help them to show more respect for the year-end AMS! :mad: :rolleyes: I think it's a difficult predicament. Because what happens when you have someone who's injured and to go to get the fine reversed they have to go to the tournament to get it waived. I believe it was Hewitt who had that severe toe injury and had a problem with the fine from that. So I think if thye want to make the fine that huge, they should also change some other things like perhaps allow any recognized or previously designated doctor confirm the injury for purposes of avoiding the fine - not just a tournament doctor at the tournament in question.

For example, Andy sprained his ankle in Madrid, probably got cleared by the Madrid doctor to pull out of Lyon without fine, but then he went home to Texas. A week later, he pulls out of Paris. Is he supposed to go back to Paris to pull out just so he can avoid the fine? the way the rules are currently written, I believe he would. It seems sort of silly to ask a player to travel halfway around the world just to avoid a fine when they really are legitimately injured, and if the fine is not so bad, then they don't care, but if a fine is half a million dollars, then this seems unfair when the player is really truly injured.

Sorry if I'm not making sense :lol:

But the 'back to back Masters events' arguments doesn't really work. There are other back to back Masters Series in the year and they don't suffer half the prestigious losses that Madrid and Paris suffer each year. Unless you mean they suffer of being back to back in addition to being at the end of the year. Then yes, I guess it doesn't help them. :awww:I think it definitely has something to do with it being at the end of the year. There's just no way that the top guys CAN'T be tired. I know some players who haven't been healthy for both Paris and Madrid in many many years. I don't mean just tired or even exhausted but have been actually injured for one or the other of the two. Year after year. That just sucks and it's unlucky for the tourneys that they are the final tourneys of the year. Lots of players pulled out of the smaller tourneys in between the two also, it's not just the masters events.

But it's the same discussion every year, players complain about the schedule (that's quite hypocritical from those who go play smaller tournies or exhibitions for huge appearance fees), fans complain as well, and yet the ATP leaders act like they hear nothing :fiery: money, money, money :pYep, amen sista.

Whistleway
10-31-2006, 01:58 AM
Mr. Disney is an idiot and it is a sad day that he's at top of this wonderful sport :(

MarieS
10-31-2006, 02:15 AM
Mr. Disney is an idiot and it is a sad day that he's at top of this wonderful sport :(

Can't really say that the idiots before him were any better. :shrug:
I'm just amazed at tennis's unmatched ability to find the least qualified people to lead the sport year after year after year :worship:. I mean, WTA has the same problem. Look at what Larry Scott is doing: it took him 3 years to admit that the WTA has an injury problem, and all the withdrawals weren't just a series of unrelated freak injuries. :rolleyes:

nobama
10-31-2006, 02:17 AM
Then they need to schedule more wisely and stop playing Mickey Mouse tournaments and exhibitions for the appearance fees.
What exhibitions has Federer played this year? :confused: And who decides what tournaments are Mickey Mouse? I suppose you could say any tournament that's not a slam or Masters is MM. But the players don't see it this way. :shrug: And what's the point then of having these other tournaments if they don't get any top players to show up? Why are the fans in Japan less important than the fans in Paris? Just because the ATP decided that Paris would get a Masters event? These smaller events aren't going to survive with only B and C list players showing up.

tangerine_dream
10-31-2006, 02:18 AM
"Unfortunately this is the third year that withdrawals and injuries have hurt the event and the fans' opportunity to see all their tennis idols.

"This reinforces my determination to introduce meaningful change to the calendar, the structures, the incentives and sanctions needed to have healthy, motivated top players grace our top events."
Yep. And round robins are the answer to avoiding burnout and injuries. :retard:

Yep:
http://fr.sports.yahoo.com/26102006/26/tennis-ljubicic-roddick-et-baghdatis-forfaits-bercy.html

Baggy :o :smash:

nobama
10-31-2006, 02:21 AM
I think they should force to the players to play only 3 optional events instead of 5. That would help.Then they need to start getting rid of tournaments. Because I can't see some of these events surviving if no top players show up. Last thing the tour needs is more tournaments given the status of "mickey mouse".

Tennis Fool
10-31-2006, 02:43 AM
What exhibitions has Federer played this year? :confused: And who decides what tournaments are Mickey Mouse? I suppose you could say any tournament that's not a slam or Masters is MM. But the players don't see it this way. :shrug: And what's the point then of having these other tournaments if they don't get any top players to show up? Why are the fans in Japan less important than the fans in Paris? Just because the ATP decided that Paris would get a Masters event? These smaller events aren't going to survive with only B and C list players showing up.

I'm really holding back the snark, but YES, certain tournaments are greater than others because the ATP said so!

If players just went about playing whatever and whenever, chaos would reign and there'd be no reason for an organizational body to make rules to benefit players, sponsors and fans.

rofe
10-31-2006, 02:54 AM
Bans? If he wants to promote tanking then go ahead...

With RR he is already going to promote tanking albeit for a different reason. He is way ahead of you.

Ernham
10-31-2006, 03:09 AM
Mr. Disney sounds like he is running for president.

nobama
10-31-2006, 03:18 AM
If players just went about playing whatever and whenever, chaos would reign and there'd be no reason for an organizational body to make rules to benefit players, sponsors and fans.I never suggested that :rolleyes: but it appears if it was up to you the top players would only play in GS and Masters events. So the very successful US Open Series would be a bust because the top players would be resting rather than playing in Indy, LA, Washington so as to be fresh for Canada and Cincy.

Sofyaxo
10-31-2006, 03:18 AM
You know I don't think that he even really cares about why the players aren't there.

This guy just wants the top 16 or so at everything because he thinks that it going to lead to more money.

That's why he's upset, he thinks he isn't getting a mass amout of money that he could have.

rmb6687
10-31-2006, 03:20 AM
Then they need to start getting rid of tournaments. Because I can't see some of these events surviving if no top players show up. Last thing the tour needs is more tournaments given the status of "mickey mouse".

but which tournaments would you get rid of and who would decide? I mean, I understand that there are a lot of tournaments and players get tired, but there are also fans that live in places where there are no slams/majors(many of which occur pretty close together anyway) so you are you going to piss a lot of them off too.

I'm not answering the whole exhaustion question very well...but i would be very sad if no one came to Washington anymore even tho I guess it is sort of MM.

DDrago2
10-31-2006, 03:30 AM
If masters are obligatory, then they are obligatory. You can't just say "I am tired" and skip a masters tourney after just winning a non-masters tournament. Top players must cut down schedules so they can play all masters and Grand Slams. For example I suggested long ago that Federer should play exclusively grand slams and masters + Dubai and Halle

They should also finaly fix the RG - Wimbledon and Toronto - Cincinaty time gap. Toronto should be a week earlier, Wimbledon a week later

nobama
10-31-2006, 03:48 AM
Of course you can say your injured....whether you're really injured badly enough to not be able to play. To me fatigue because of playing 90+ matches is no different than someone who has a minor injury. They need to sort it out so no masters events are played back to back (unless it's a situation like IW/Miami with the larger draws and byes). And don't schedule tournaments in between two masters events - if they want all the top players to show up.

If players need to cut down their schedule, then tournaments need to go. I don't know which ones are deemed more worthy than others (outside of Masters events). But as I said before, I don't think smaller tournaments would survive if only C list players showed up, ones that wouldn't be seeded in a Masters event. Then you'd have those tournament directors bitching that they can't get any decent players to show up.

Tennis Fool
10-31-2006, 03:52 AM
Mirkaland,

I'm trying to follow your arguments, but it doesn't seem you have one that is coherent. So, are you saying the Masters should not exist? That all tournaments outside of the Slams should be of equal value? Help me understand.

Action Jackson
10-31-2006, 03:52 AM
Fearless leader just speaks the truth and cares for the sport.

nobama
10-31-2006, 03:58 AM
but which tournaments would you get rid of and who would decide? I mean, I understand that there are a lot of tournaments and players get tired, but there are also fans that live in places where there are no slams/majors(many of which occur pretty close together anyway) so you are you going to piss a lot of them off too.

I'm not answering the whole exhaustion question very well...but i would be very sad if no one came to Washington anymore even tho I guess it is sort of MM.No I agree with you. I was just responding to those who say players need to plan their schedules better or not play as many optionals.

I think it's great top players play in areas of the world where there aren't any major tennis events. I think it's great Japanese fans got to see Federer play and by all accounts it seems he was quite popular there. I hope that doesn't stop and tournaments just become concentrated in North America and Western Europe.

nobama
10-31-2006, 04:04 AM
Mirkaland,

I'm trying to follow your arguments, but it doesn't seem you have one that is coherent. So, are you saying the Masters should not exist? That all tournaments outside of the Slams should be of equal value? Help me understand.
No I'm saying if players need to plan their schedules better and play less optionals, then some tournaments deemed MM need to be on the chopping block. Because I don't think they'll survive with a bunch of C list players showing up. But who defines what is MM? And who decides which events go away?

Via
10-31-2006, 05:07 AM
there's only one federer and every tennis fan around the world wants to see him. what gives? the excessive demand for a top tennis player is an increasing problem for the sport, as it becomes more popular globally. you can't deny fans in japan or china or india to demand seeing their favourite players in action. it's a good thing to be popular, and then comes the question what to do when we are too popular?? it's a nice problem to have for any sport/organisation, but it will take a brilliant leadership to resolve it, and we've already seen what ingenius solutions mr disney has come up with so far :tape:

he can hit all the right notes for the paris organisers to hear, but i doubt what he can come up with having "to introduce significant reform of the calendar, of its structure, of bonus payments, and the necessary sanctions needed to permit the best players to play ... our biggest tournaments"

also :rolleyes: at not saying any word of compassion towards the plight of those exhausted/injured players. can't he just add a line like 'i understand' instead of pulling out a stick? gwh is absolutely right about the balance of power being tilted to one side - the tournament directors.

un/fortunately there are so many TD's around the world wanting something from him, it isn't easy to please them all.

I'm just amazed at tennis's unmatched ability to find the least qualified people to lead the sport year after year after year
:lol: so true. how about the sport at a high level is a close little web and one needs connections to get in, let alone getting to the top? ;)

Action Jackson
10-31-2006, 05:10 AM
:lol: so true. how about the sport at a high level is a close little web and one needs connections to get in, let alone getting to the top? ;)

These guys couldn't organise an orgy in a brothel with $ 100 000 000 000 000 and that is US dollars or they'd find a way to lose a 1 horse race.

Seriously, the local hamburger joint has more coherent policies than Mr Disney and his assortment of clowns.

mandoura
10-31-2006, 05:34 AM
Yep:

http://fr.sports.yahoo.com/26102006/26/tennis-ljubicic-roddick-et-baghdatis-forfaits-bercy.html

:tape:

mandoura
10-31-2006, 05:49 AM
Why not give the players more choices?

Some points to discuss:

1. Instead of making playing all of the 9 masters mandatory, make it only 5 and the other 4 optional and players get to choose whether to play all of them or just 5 mandatory of their choice.

2. Have other tourneys schedueled simultaneously with the masters, for example, Basel and Madrid starting together, and the player chooses which one to play.

3. Having at least 2 weeks preparation time after the last Masters event and before the Masters Cup.

4. Getting extra points for every Master played more than 5.

Boris Franz Ecker
10-31-2006, 07:15 AM
If masters are obligatory, then they are obligatory. You can't just say "I am tired" and skip a masters tourney after just winning a non-masters tournament. Top players must cut down schedules so they can play all masters and Grand Slams. For example I suggested long ago that Federer should play exclusively grand slams and masters + Dubai and Halle



Do you think Paris-Bercy is more important to Federer than Basle?
Of course not, Basle is his home tournament and he has only very few.
He already skips Gstaad.

Fed-Express
10-31-2006, 07:43 AM
I wonder why there is such an uproar, this year in Hamburg Federer, Nadal, Roddick and Nalbandian pulled out (1-4, with No. 5 Ljubo having a great 2nd round appearance), as well as Hewitt (10).

In Paris, 1-4 are also out, and #6. Rankings of May 15th and October, 30th resectively.

So the situation is almost the same like in Hamburg and the reactions are quite different with Devilliers making ridiculous statements. It's kinda double standards, is the French tennis Federation so much more influential than the Germans?

Action Jackson
10-31-2006, 07:46 AM
I wonder why there is such an uproar, this year in Hamburg Federer, Nadal, Roddick and Nalbandian pulled out (1-4, with No. 5 Ljubo having a great 2nd round appearance), as well as Hewitt (10).

In Paris, 1-4 are also out, and #6. Rankings of May 15th and October, 30th resectively.

So the situation is almost the same like in Hamburg and the reactions are quite different with Devilliers making ridiculous statements. It's kinda double standards, is the French tennis Federation so much more influential than the Germans?

Disney doesn't know what he is saying half the time, but he likes mickey mouse solutions.

MariaV
10-31-2006, 08:06 AM
is the French tennis Federation so much more influential than the Germans?

I guess it is.

nobama
10-31-2006, 11:12 AM
I wonder why there is such an uproar, this year in Hamburg Federer, Nadal, Roddick and Nalbandian pulled out (1-4, with No. 5 Ljubo having a great 2nd round appearance), as well as Hewitt (10).

In Paris, 1-4 are also out, and #6. Rankings of May 15th and October, 30th resectively.

So the situation is almost the same like in Hamburg and the reactions are quite different with Devilliers making ridiculous statements. It's kinda double standards, is the French tennis Federation so much more influential than the Germans?
No they just make more noise. And people here care more about Paris than Hamburg.

nobama
10-31-2006, 11:18 AM
Do you think Paris-Bercy is more important to Federer than Basle?
Of course not, Basle is his home tournament and he has only very few.
He already skips Gstaad.Doesn't matter. Because Paris is mandatory he should be there no matter what. The guy played 92 matches this year so far. 15 finals, including all 4 slams and 6 Masters but yet it's somehow deplorable that he would pull out of Paris because of fatigue. :rolleyes:

alfonsojose
10-31-2006, 11:47 AM
JesusFed should have withdrawn before. He had the number 1 in the pocket and had played Tokyo. With Basel (and that best of five 5 set final :rolleyes:) it was clearly too much. If he wanted to play Basel, why Tokyo. He would have byes in Madrid and Paris :shrug:

spencercarlos
10-31-2006, 12:46 PM
:rolleyes: Wow, he's a genius. Why didn't anyone think of this before? And clearly, round robin events are going to take care of all the withdrawals. :yeah:

Meanwhile, Cedric Pioline thinks players should be banned. :o



ATP leadership is amazing. :bounce: :banana:
:rolleyes:
I think itīs more than enough to have a big 0 counting for your ranking if you donīt play certain Master Series events.
Piolineīs idea is ridiculous, they have never banned people because of that, even when he played, why players should be forced into doing something they just simply donīt want to.
The only part i agree is that they should reschedule better, the clay court Master Series events and the weeks in between if Paris and the Masterīs Cup.

Saumon
10-31-2006, 03:44 PM
So they're going to ban players for being too physically exhausted/injured to take part?? :confused:

it's part of the plan to have Safin back at the number one spot! :devil: :p

MarieS
10-31-2006, 03:47 PM
it's part of the plan to have Safin back at the number one spot! :devil: :p

:banana:

Just to clarify, Pioline wants players suspended not banned; probably lost in translation. :shrug:
The only penalty of any use is a suspension. That's the only thing the players will understand because financial penalties don't make any difference.There's a problem with the structure of the calendar. I think the calendar should be defined more clearly with the Grand Slams on one side and Masters Series and other tournaments on the other side.The way in which the ranking system functions means it's not okay. When we have something that is more logical and acceptable from a sports point of view for the players, it will be better.The obligations for the tournament organisers are well defined but those for the players are not

Tennis Fool
11-01-2006, 02:49 AM
No I'm saying if players need to plan their schedules better and play less optionals, then some tournaments deemed MM need to be on the chopping block. Because I don't think they'll survive with a bunch of C list players showing up. But who defines what is MM? And who decides which events go away?

Well, something has to give. Less Masters or less other tournaments with A-list players.

Tennis Fool
11-01-2006, 02:59 AM
Why not give the players more choices?

Some points to discuss:

1. Instead of making playing all of the 9 masters mandatory, make it only 5 and the other 4 optional and players get to choose whether to play all of them or just 5 mandatory of their choice.

2. Have other tourneys schedueled simultaneously with the masters, for example, Basel and Madrid starting together, and the player chooses which one to play.[/quote]

Hi Mandoura.

The players are only required to play 7 of the 9 Masters. If they were required to only play 5, we'd have more Masters like Paris, with a depleted field.


3. Having at least 2 weeks preparation time after the last Masters event and before the Masters Cup.
Pushing back the MC another week would be helpful to Paris, but it doesn't solve the problem of fatigue going into Paris.

4. Getting extra points for every Master played more than 5.
If I'm Federer and breaking the 8,000 mark, that's not an incentive to make me play.