Coria has fallen out of top 100.... will he come back and if so how high? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Coria has fallen out of top 100.... will he come back and if so how high?

LocoPorElTenis
10-25-2006, 01:43 PM
Pretty straightforward question. Is Coria done or will he have a second chance?

CmonAussie
10-25-2006, 01:47 PM
Pretty straightforward question. Is Coria done or will he have a second chance?
:eek:
Coria has a slim chance though I don`t really expect him to ever get back in the Top #10.. Actually Top #50 should be his goal now & he can probably do that next year;)
...
The chances of Coria reclaiming his form are less than that of Ferrero`s, which in turn is less than that of Hewitt`s:p

mtw
10-25-2006, 01:56 PM
He is very good player and good man. He has second chance. He is young. He must practice, find a good coach, he must have more confidence for himself. He must believe, that he is very good and he can win with every player. Even Nadal is not terrible. It depends only on stratego of play and phisical preparation.
Maybe better can it be considered or Nadal is not done and give to Coria a little bit time for tranquillity.

Neely
10-25-2006, 02:00 PM
2nd chance for sure, but I could not really predict how high he would come back, top 10 or "only" top 20?

shotgun
10-25-2006, 02:11 PM
I hope he comes back at least to the top 50. I never liked his personality but his best tennis was always entertaining to watch.

scoobs
10-25-2006, 02:15 PM
Coria's now saying he won't play until at least after the Australian Open and seems to be enjoying his extended rest from the tour. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he does a bit of a Hingis and doesn't come back for a year at least.

Fumus
10-25-2006, 02:33 PM
Coria is way too good to be down as low as he is. He will be back.

dorkino
10-25-2006, 02:36 PM
Depending on lots of "ifs"..

Some like he can come back if he gets himself back together, find a good coach and gets convinced that he's actually having a good coach as a beginning.

He can, but 'll he is another story.. i used to enjoy his game a lot anyway.

Blue Heart24
10-25-2006, 02:36 PM
Never again...GUille :sad:

Clara Bow
10-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Coria's now saying he won't play until at least after the Australian Open and seems to be enjoying his extended rest from the tour

Do you know if part of this is to work on his marriage? I read on the boards for tennis magazine that he and Carla were having marital problems and she left him briefly. I wonder if that is a factor in him taking some time off too. I think it could be good for him to sort out his personal life before coming back.

I don't see him coming back to the top ten- but I would love for him to be top 25- although that is a stretch. He is a very talented player who I always find very entertaining to watch.

Hendu
10-25-2006, 02:46 PM
If he recovers the hunger of victories, and sorts out the service problems, then he will be back in top ten, or even top five.

Of course, those are big ifs.

Hendu
10-25-2006, 02:51 PM
Do you know if part of this is to work on his marriage? I read on the boards for tennis magazine that he and Carla were having marital problems and she left him briefly. I wonder if that is a factor in him taking some time off too. I think it could be good for him to sort out his personal life before coming back.

I don't see him coming back to the top ten- but I would love for him to be top 25- although that is a stretch. He is a very talented player who I always find very entertaining to watch.

The official version is that his marriage has nothing to do with this. Coria and his last coach (De la Peña) split suppousedly because he still doesn't have the necessary attitude to come back. He is not mentally prepared yet to come back strong.

Checho
10-25-2006, 03:09 PM
I think that Coria will never come back, he has an attitude of guy who gives up to try.

He never is going to recover his best level if he doesn't play at all.

Hendu
10-25-2006, 03:23 PM
I think that Coria will never come back, he has an attitude of guy who gives up to try.

He never is going to recover his best level if he doesn't play at all.

In his career it has been all the way around. Few fighted and made efforts like he did in trainings and in matches.

Although I don't know what his attitude towards tennis is now. He is said to be mentally exhausted after all the struggles he has been through last year.

adee-gee
10-25-2006, 03:24 PM
Guille has no chance until he sorts out his mental issues.

Once those are dealt with, he's still got a shot at getting back somewhere near the top, though probably only on clay.

Washa Koroleva
10-25-2006, 03:28 PM
2nd option and i just hope

vogus
10-25-2006, 03:39 PM
it makes you wonder whether Coria's quick success might have been due to doping, and then he started to suck once the dope was taken away... i mean, i hope that's not true but you have to consider the possibility.

Julio1974
10-25-2006, 03:50 PM
it makes you wonder whether Coria's quick success might have been due to doping, and then he started to suck once the dope was taken away... i mean, i hope that's not true but you have to consider the possibility.

Coria's best years (2003 and 2004) were after the doping suspension, not before. Coria's problem is mental, it has nothing to do with his tennis nor with his physical condition. If he does not feel manetally capable of paying tennis professionally again, it's his decision.

TennisGrandSlam
10-25-2006, 03:51 PM
Coria was very strong in 2004 (before Wimbledon)

He entered 6 finals in this period (4 in-row)

Buenos Aires (W) -> Marseille (R16) -> Dabui (R32) -> Indian Wells AMS (SF) -> Miami AMS (F)-> Monte Carlo AMS (W) -> Hamburg AMS (F) -> Roland Garros (F) -> London / Queen's Club (R32) -> 's-Hertogenbosch (F)


He can play well in any surface, event though relatively weak on grass.

However, he need to improve his physical ability. He is not so powerful and vulnerable.

vogus
10-25-2006, 03:57 PM
Coria's best years (2003 and 2004) were after the doping suspension, not before. Coria's problem is mental, it has nothing to do with his tennis nor with his physical condition. If he does not feel manetally capable of paying tennis professionally again, it's his decision.


you don't know that Coria didn't go right back on the dope after his suspension though. Maybe after '04 new tests were developed that could catch whatever he was taking, and he had to quit - with devastating effects to his game. I'm not saying this has to be true, but you can't dismiss it as a possibility. Such a dramatic collapse by a young player who was so good just 2 years ago, can't be explained away only by saying "it's a mental thing".

Julio1974
10-25-2006, 04:01 PM
you don't know that Coria didn't go right back on the dope after his suspension though. Maybe after '04 new tests were developed that could catch whatever he was taking, and he had to quit - with devastating effects to his game. I'm not saying this has to be true, but you can't dismiss it as a possibility. Such a dramatic collapse by a young player who was so good just 2 years ago, can't be explained away only by saying "it's a mental thing".

Well, you don't know anything about Coria. You don't know anything about his family. You don't know anything about all the pressure he had to bear from his own circle. His collapse is the product of a mental breakdown. Just like he collapsed against Gaudio in RG he collapsed now in his career

Can you tell me what the hell has doping to do with with not being able to serve?

vogus
10-25-2006, 04:09 PM
Well, you don't know anything about Coria. You don't know anything about his family. You don't know anything about all the pressure he had to bear from his own circle. His collapse is the product of a mental breakdown. Just like he collapsed against Gaudio in RG he collapsed now in his career

Can you tell me what the hell has doping to do with with not being able to serve?


his serve was always terrible, but he made up for it with his ground game. You're not on the inside of Coria's circle. You have no idea what he might or might not have been doing in '03-'04. You have a theory about why he collapsed, but that's all it is, a theory.

Julio1974
10-25-2006, 04:15 PM
his serve was always terrible, but he made up for it with his ground game. You're not on the inside of Coria's circle. You have no idea what he might or might not have been doing in '03-'04. You have a theory about why he collapsed, but that's all it is, a theory.

Coria never double faulted like this before. You are just talking nosense. Any person with minimal knolwedge of tennis knows that his double faults are a product of a mental problem. It's simply stupid to blame his doble faults to the question of doping. All his previous coaches have confirmed this: he can serve ok while training, he cannot serve in the match.

As for my knowledge of Coria's circle, I can tell you I know a couple of persons who are extremely close to one of his previous coaches.

David Kenzie
10-25-2006, 04:38 PM
If he sorts out his shoulder problem then he can definetly reach top 10 no doubt.

Hendu
10-25-2006, 05:19 PM
his serve was always terrible, but he made up for it with his ground game. You're not on the inside of Coria's circle. You have no idea what he might or might not have been doing in '03-'04. You have a theory about why he collapsed, but that's all it is, a theory.

you are embarrasing yourself with these posts.

vogus
10-25-2006, 05:33 PM
you are embarrasing yourself with these posts.


you are embarrassing yourself with your inability to use basic logic. :p

LocoPorElTenis
10-25-2006, 06:08 PM
you are embarrassing yourself with your inability to use basic logic. :p


You're embarrassing yourself with your utmost lack of understanding of both doping and psychology. It's absolutely obvious for anyone with the minimum of common sense and information that Coria's problems are mental. For your interest, before you accuse me of lack of basic logic, I am a doctor in Mathematics. :wavey:

zicofirol
10-25-2006, 06:08 PM
I actually think if comes back good he will be around top 40 top 30 player. I dont think he will ever be top 15 top 20 again much less top 10.
Too many talented players are coming out and I think alot of them including all in the top 30 are better than him.

Apemant
10-25-2006, 07:13 PM
How can that even happen? What is wrong with Hewitt, JCF and Coria, why can't they play like they used to? What changed them?

vogus
10-25-2006, 07:14 PM
You're embarrassing yourself with your utmost lack of understanding of both doping and psychology. It's absolutely obvious for anyone with the minimum of common sense and information that Coria's problems are mental. For your interest, before you accuse me of lack of basic logic, I am a doctor in Mathematics. :wavey:


maybe you are math whiz, but you still lack a basic understanding of psychology and what lengths people are willing to go to for success in the sports world. :)

jayjay
10-25-2006, 07:17 PM
it makes you wonder whether Coria's quick success might have been due to doping, and then he started to suck once the dope was taken away... i mean, i hope that's not true but you have to consider the possibility.

Alternatively, it makes you wonder whether you are aware of any of the details surrounding Coria and his doping case. I mean, I hope that's not true but you have to consider the possibility.

alelysafina
10-25-2006, 07:23 PM
you don't know that Coria didn't go right back on the dope after his suspension though. Maybe after '04 new tests were developed that could catch whatever he was taking, and he had to quit - with devastating effects to his game. I'm not saying this has to be true, but you can't dismiss it as a possibility. Such a dramatic collapse by a young player who was so good just 2 years ago, can't be explained away only by saying "it's a mental thing".

What happned to JCF and Hewitt then? Were they on the juice as well?

Checho
10-25-2006, 07:38 PM
I actually think if comes back good he will be around top 40 top 30 player. I dont think he will ever be top 15 top 20 again much less top 10.
Too many talented players are coming out and I think alot of them including all in the top 30 are better than him.

If Coria recover the level that he had in 2004, he will be top five or at least top ten.

But the thing is he won't recover that level, so i would be happy if he comes back to the top 50.

LocoPorElTenis
10-25-2006, 07:52 PM
What happned to JCF and Hewitt then? Were they on the juice as well?


Yeah, Safin as well... I mean, how else do you explain winning two GS and then losing early in MM tournaments? Also Guga after hip surgery. And don't forget Nadal - he was better a year ago than now, that can ONLY be explained by doping. Let's also not forget about Roddick - that Summer of 2003 he sure was on the juice, no other way to explain why he never reached that level again. :rolleyes:


All on the juice according to Vogel's twisted logic :wavey: .

LK_22
10-25-2006, 10:15 PM
If he gets over his mental issues and/or problems with his serve I think he COULD rise to be a threat on clay again...

I hope so, but I think he missed his chance for glory in 2004 and really hasn't got over the lost to Gaudio at the French

scarecrows
10-25-2006, 11:06 PM
option 2

guille&tati4life
10-25-2006, 11:09 PM
I think he can come back. Whether it is physical or mental or both, there is a chance that Guillermo will come back. But i doubt he'll ever get as high as no3 again. In fact, top 20 may be stretching it :sad:

Good Luck Guillermo!

atheneglaukopis
10-25-2006, 11:33 PM
Yeah, Safin as well... I mean, how else do you explain winning two GS and then losing early in MM tournaments? Also Guga after hip surgery. And don't forget Nadal - he was better a year ago than now, that can ONLY be explained by doping. Let's also not forget about Roddick - that Summer of 2003 he sure was on the juice, no other way to explain why he never reached that level again. :rolleyes:


All on the juice according to Vogel's twisted logic :wavey: .
Safin's a little stranger though, more of a roller coaster: lose early in MMs, win a GS, lose early in MMs, make a couple of AO finals, lose early in MMs, win a GS (five years later), lose early in MMs...lather, rinse, repeat...

artlinkletter
10-25-2006, 11:52 PM
Safin's a little stranger though, more of a roller coaster: lose early in MMs, win a GS, lose early in MMs, make a couple of AO finals, lose early in MMs, win a GS (five years later), lose early in MMs...lather, rinse, repeat...

He's consistent in that sense. Right?!? *Sigh*:sad:

atheneglaukopis
10-25-2006, 11:55 PM
He's consistent in that sense. Right?!? *Sigh*:sad:Keep trying. :p If we say it often enough...

artlinkletter
10-25-2006, 11:57 PM
Haha. Only if..

ExcaliburII
10-25-2006, 11:59 PM
top 10 again.

Kinetix
10-26-2006, 12:52 AM
I think he will come back at least to the top 50.

I can't believe his service problem.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 05:42 AM
you are embarrassing yourself with your inability to use basic logic. :p

Funny says the man who said Rios and Hrbaty had many similarities.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 05:44 AM
To answer the thread question. Well if he wants it bad enough and is prepared to admit his previous failings, then yes he can make a comeback, as to what level he will achieve this is debatable, but he could exist between the 20-40 area.

Fed-Express
10-26-2006, 06:11 AM
He is an incredibly gifted player, top ten is without a doubt possible. Others (agassi, safin) managed to rebound to the top 10 and he will too.

jayjay
10-26-2006, 02:23 PM
and is prepared to admit his previous failings.

:confused:

If Coria regains the hunger and motivation to become a top tennis player, as he was this time last year, stabilises his coaching situation and remembers how to get a decent % of 1st serves in, he will return to a high level.

"admitting previous failings" is completely irrelevant. He is only answerable to himself, not his fans, or his critics.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 02:29 PM
:confused:

If Coria regains the hunger and motivation to become a top tennis player, as he was this time last year, stabilises his coaching situation and remembers how to get a decent % of 1st serves in, he will return to a high level.

"admitting previous failings" is completely irrelevant. He is only answerable to himself, not his fans, or his critics.

"admitting previous failings" isn't irrelevant. Why? Cause if he is lying to himself and not prepared to face up to what mistakes he has made in the past, then he is not exactly going to make progress back to where he was or as close as possible.

But I forgot psychology isn't important in a make up of a pro athlete. You shouldn't be looking for an agenda, when there isn't one there.

jayjay
10-26-2006, 03:06 PM
[QUOTE=GeorgeWHitler;4348609]Cause if he is lying to himself and not prepared to face up to what mistakes he has made in the past, then he is not exactly going to make progress back to where he was or as close as possible.

Which mistakes are these exactly?

But I forgot psychology isn't important in a make up of a pro athlete. You shouldn't be looking for an agenda, when there isn't one there.

Of course psychology is important, and I'm not looking for any agenda. Don't be so paranoid. :)

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 03:14 PM
Which mistakes are these exactly?

Of course psychology is important, and I'm not looking for any agenda. Don't be so paranoid. :)

So you think Coria hasn't made mistakes with his career? Well he has almost Safin's record of coaches and he started playing a lot later. A long term coach would be good for him.

Next mistake coming back too soon to play at the TMC in 2004. I said it then it was a dumb decision and Markus his coach at the time had prior experience of coming back too soon from injuries and look what happened to him at that event.

The serving yips well he has to get over that and if he can serve well in training, then why can't he do it in a match? He shouldn't be losing to some of the jabronis he has this year. He hasn't looked to see a psychologist or someone not in a tennis technique sense to help sort that problem out for the causes for it.

Would you like some more reasons? As for being paranoid. I am not a fanboy:)

Julio1974
10-26-2006, 03:30 PM
So you think Coria hasn't made mistakes with his career? Well he has almost Safin's record of coaches and he started playing a lot later. A long term coach would be good for him.


Next mistake coming back too soon to play at the TMC in 2004. I said it then it was a dumb decision and Markus his coach at the time had prior experience of coming back too soon from injuries and look what happened to him at that event.

The serving yips well he has to get over that and if he can serve well in training, then why can't he do it in a match? He shouldn't be losing to some of the jabronis he has this year. He hasn't looked to see a psychologist or someone not in a tennis technique sense to help sort that problem out for the causes for it.

Would you like some more reasons? As for being paranoid. I am not a fanboy:)

I agree in general with your comments. Coria has made several mistakes in the past. As far as I know, many coaches couldn't stand his father.

With respect to the psychologist, I don't think it's that easy.

jayjay
10-26-2006, 03:32 PM
[QUOTE=GeorgeWHitler;4348826]So you think Coria hasn't made mistakes with his career?

And where did I say that, exactly? I asked you what you thought his mistakes are, as I had seen you allude to it before but not with specifics. So since we were here, I asked for specifics.

Don't put words into my mouth, please. I am more than capable of expressing my own words and thoughts out of my own mouth.

Well he has almost Safin's record of coaches and he started playing a lot later. A long term coach would be good for him.

Agreed, something he has alluded to recently. I'm sure you are aware.

Next mistake coming back too soon to play at the TMC in 2004. I said it then it was a dumb decision and Markus his coach at the time had prior experience of coming back too soon from injuries and look what happened to him at that event.

I don't agree with that. We know why he wanted to come back, and he did very well to make it even though he could be no factor whatsoever (something which everyone knew would be the case). His 2005 went fine until USO with regards the shoulder. Had he had problems early in 2005, I would have agreed, but that was not the case.

The serving yips well he has to get over that and if he can serve well in training, then why can't he do it in a match? He shouldn't be losing to some of the jabronis he has this year. He hasn't looked to see a psychologist or someone not in a tennis technique sense to help sort that problem out for the causes for it.

That's up for speculation whether he has or has not seen anyone. Perlas once alluded to the fact he had, Coria said he hadn't. Blah, blah, blah. Who to believe - doesn't really matter.

He needs to sort out his serving problems, that is obvious to one and all and is his major problem. Whether his problems originate truly because of the shoulder or because of the mind, only he knows. And whether the damage done to the mind has robbed him of the hunger and desire he had before, again only he knows although judging from his performances and some of his letters since...it is obvious to conclude the hunger and will is gone.

Would you like some more reasons?

If you have them.

Maybe there is a misinterpretation. Coria has problems serving, we all know that. Don't you think he knows that? So when you say he has admit to his problems, you make it sound like he must not think he has a problem with the serve - when surely he knows full well.

Whether he wants to take certain steps in an attempt to correct it, is up to him. There isn't an open and shut way to solve it. Things are not as simple as that, you should know given you're a Gaudio fan and his history of a lack of self-confidence and belief.

As for being paranoid. I am not a fanboy:)

I don't know what "fanboy" means, I haven't been around MTF long enough. Explain if you must.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 03:34 PM
I agree in general with your comments. Coria has made several mistakes in the past. As far as I know, many coaches couldn't stand his father.

With respect to the psychologist, I don't think it's that easy.

No one ever said it would be easy at all, cause nothing ever is or should be this easy. It might work, it might not work, but he has got to be professional enough or not so proud that it can't be ruled out.

Julio1974
10-26-2006, 03:37 PM
No one ever said it would be easy at all, cause nothing ever is or should be this easy. It might work, it might not work, but he has got to be professional enough or not so proud that it can't be ruled out.

To be honest, I'm almost certain he has already asked for help. The problem is that there many medications he cannot take because of doping regulations.

adee-gee
10-26-2006, 03:38 PM
No one ever said it would be easy at all, cause nothing ever is or should be this easy. It might work, it might not work, but he has got to be professional enough or not so proud that it can't be ruled out.
Guille is far too proud to admit he has mental issues.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 03:47 PM
[QUOTE]

And where did I say that, exactly? I asked you what you thought his mistakes are, as I had seen you allude to it before but not with specifics. So since we were here, I asked for specifics.

Don't put words into my mouth, please. I am more than capable of expressing my own words and thoughts out of my own mouth.

As for admitting his failings? That is acknowledging his previous mistakes and I stated what they were and why. If this is not clear enough for you, then I tried.

I don't agree with that. We know why he wanted to come back, and he did very well to make it even though he could be no factor whatsoever (something which everyone knew would be the case). His 2005 went fine until USO with regards the shoulder. Had he had problems early in 2005, I would have agreed, but that was not the case.

We aren't going to agree on this. He came back too soon and his results in this event showed that. He'd have been better off still training and being ready to go at the AO 2005, but he let his ego get the better of him in this case. There a

That's up for speculation whether he has or has not seen anyone. Perlas once alluded to the fact he had, Coria said he hadn't. Blah, blah, blah. Who to believe - doesn't really matter.

He needs to sort out his serving problems, that is obvious to one and all and is his major problem. Whether his problems originate truly because of the shoulder or because of the mind, only he knows. And whether the damage done to the mind has robbed him of the hunger and desire he had before, again only he knows although judging from his performances and some of his letters since...it is obvious to conclude the hunger and will is gone.

They are tied together, if he is strong mentally and not false bravado, then he is less likely to have service problems is he? That is just basic commonsense and also the external factors are important and impact on the well being of most people and tennis players are no different.

But the above scenario isn't the case, as he isn't feeling at this optimum level and when that is the case, then questions need to be asked and every person is responsible for their own actions.

I don't know what "fanboy" means, I haven't been around MTF long enough. Explain if you must

It means an over the top fan who can't discuss anything outside the sphere of their favourites.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 03:47 PM
Guille is far too proud to admit he has mental issues.

Pretty much it.

*Ljubica*
10-26-2006, 03:51 PM
To be honest, I'm almost certain he has already asked for help. The problem is that there many medications he cannot take because of doping regulations.

To the best of my knowledge - he was offered help by a psychologist who wanted to work with him - but as Adam says - he is too proud to admit he needs help, and he refused his offers. As GWH says - he really does need to admit his failings (and also his weaknesses and be prepared to seek help where necessary) before he can ever move on and get back to the position in the ranking that his obvious talent deserves.

jayjay
10-26-2006, 03:58 PM
[QUOTE=GeorgeWHitler;4349007]We aren't going to agree on this.

Agreed.

He came back too soon and his results in this event showed that.

He came back early to take his place amongst the games elite, and went on in 2005 to have a good year (up to Beijing). Including the exceptional Rome F.

These are clues that he did not indeed come back too early. Had he been completely useless and plagued with problems in early 2005 your case would have more substance, instead he went 9 months without any problems whatsoever.

external factors are important and impact on the well being of most people and tennis players are no different.

Agreed.

It means an over the top fan who can't discuss anything outside the sphere of their favourites.

I sincerely hope you are not accusing me of this. That would be a gross error on your part.

Julio1974
10-26-2006, 04:10 PM
To the best of my knowledge - he was offered help by a psychologist who wanted to work with him - but as Adam says - he is too proud to admit he needs help, and he refused his offers. As GWH says - he really does need to admit his failings (and also his weaknesses and be prepared to seek help where necessary) before he can ever move on and get back to the position in the ranking that his obvious talent deserves.

I was not wrong. He already said it.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2006/10/26/tenis/1161862960.html

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 04:12 PM
He came back early to take his place amongst the games elite, and went on in 2005 to have a good year (up to Beijing). Including the exceptional Rome F.

These are clues that he did not indeed come back too early. Had he been completely useless and plagued with problems in early 2005 your case would have more substance, instead he went 9 months without any problems whatsoever.

He came back too soon for the TMC in 2004 and showed he didn't want to listen to Markus who advised him against it. Those 3 matches were just glorified training matches and since he couldn't serve at full pace, it was disappointing to see.

His 2005 season was solid, though he got crunched at RG, but he was probably like hey I earned my spot there, and it doesn't matter that I can't play at my best at the TMC.

Think about it. He came back too soon from injuries after that and that impacted on his results and the mindset, and learning how to lose isn't easy for someone who was used to winning. It's not just one particular point in time, they are intertwined and these things build up. Gaudio's form this year is a prime example of that or do you need to me clarify it a bit more?

jayjay
10-26-2006, 04:13 PM
http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2006/10/26/tenis/1161862960.html

So it seems he is not too proud to admit his mental issues, who knew?

adee-gee
10-26-2006, 04:14 PM
I was not wrong. He already said it.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2006/10/26/tenis/1161862960.html
Could you translate that please?

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 04:16 PM
I was not wrong. He already said it.

http://www.elmundo.es/elmundodeporte/2006/10/26/tenis/1161862960.html

Step 1 is to acknowledge the problem, and then take the steps to fix it. It's called progress.

Julio1974
10-26-2006, 04:18 PM
Could you translate that please?

It basically says that Coria went to the US and had an interview with a famous sport psychologist (Jim LOher), who worked with Lendl, Sabattini and Navratilova. He will help Coria from the US.

It also says Coria is not reitiring.

Julio1974
10-26-2006, 04:21 PM
Step 1 is to acknowledge the problem, and then take the steps to fix it. It's called progress.

As long as the psychologist does not end like Perlas, Higueras and De la Peña.. Coria will have to be patient.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 04:23 PM
As long as the psychologist does not end like Perlas, Higueras and De la Peña.. Coria will have to be patient.

He needs to be patient big time, it's not something that is going to happen overnight if he is going to make it back.

jayjay
10-26-2006, 04:24 PM
[QUOTE=GeorgeWHitler;4349182]He came back too soon for the TMC in 2004 and showed he didn't want to listen to Markus who advised him against it. Those 3 matches were just glorified training matches and since he couldn't serve at full pace, it was disappointing to see.

Yes, he came back at a time where he would not be a factor for TMC 2004, this was known and understood by all. He was not there because he was expecting to go and win the tournament, he was there because he had earnt the right to be and wanted to take his place in the tournament.

It was not a case of things to come, as his 2005 season had gone well. Only Nadal stopped him winning Monte Carlo and Rome, and it turned out to be that Nadal was quite a player. :p

As I said, any issues with his serve did not arise until a full 9 months after his return. You may wish to claim his early return to tennis (about 10 months earlier) was the cause of his problems, but it doesn't really stack up.

His 2005 season was solid

Given that he made the TMC that year comfortably despite doing nothing during the indoor season, indicates that he had a good year. Could have been better, sure. More titles would have been nice, but Nadal was in his way 3 times, and in Rome could have gone either way.

He came back too soon from injuries after that and that impacted on his results and the mindset

Yeah, as I have said already (or do you need me to clarify it a bit more? :rolleyes: ), he came back for 2005 season having returned early for TMC 2004, and was absolutely fine. No problems arose till a full 9 months later. It did not impact at all on his results, unless you think losing AMS finals to Nadal is a disgrace, or making a USO QF.

Gaudio's form this year is a prime example

Gaudio's form this year is largely an indication of how he has always been bar an 18 month purple patch in his career, he is not a good example in this case.

I hope we can continue the discussion in the good spirited fashion it is intended, if you'd like to add an aggressive or patronising tone, I too can do likewise but it won't be productive in the slightest.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 04:39 PM
Yes, he came back at a time where he would not be a factor for TMC 2004, this was known and understood by all. He was not there because he was expecting to go and win the tournament, he was there because he had earnt the right to be and wanted to take his place in the tournament.

It was not a case of things to come, as his 2005 season had gone well. Only Nadal stopped him winning Monte Carlo and Rome, and it turned out to be that Nadal was quite a player. :p

As I said, any issues with his serve did not arise until a full 9 months after his return. You may wish to claim his early return to tennis (about 10 months earlier) was the cause of his problems, but it doesn't really stack up.
.

No, I am not solely claiming that at all. If a player is going to come back too early once, what is going to stop them doing it again?

It worked for 2005, but it didn't work recently? Why was that the case? Apart from the factors I have already mentioned, the mental, the impact of the losses etc, the outside factors put them together and what do you have? It's just not an overnight problem.

If he plays well enough in his best part of the season then he should be making the TMC and he did that, but RG is his tournament to peak and that was disappointing even though he was outplayed clearly.

Gaudio's form this year is largely an indication of how he has always been bar an 18 month purple patch in his career, he is not a good example in this case.

I hope we can continue the discussion in the good spirited fashion it is intended, if you'd like to add an aggressive or patronising tone, I too can do likewise but it won't be productive in the slightest

We can go patronising if you want. I really can't be bothered with it though.

I will explain it to you why Gaudio was mentioned in this context. A guy who has a lot of talent, but was never able to deliver it consistently. He improves on that side of things from mid 2004 to the start of 2006, yes that includes overall results improving on other surfaces besides clay.

He starts losing matches where he wasn't in that timeframe and the fragile mind starts going off in different directions and he reaches a point where he can't go any further without addressing some issues and his tennis suffers, if he doesn't then it's regression.

This wasn't a sudden thing in this case and while the circumstances are very different for Coria, the effects are just as obvious.

CmonAussie
10-26-2006, 04:54 PM
###
....
Just to simplify things a little~>> i believe Coria is an extemely insecure young man & the fact that he`s in denial about this only exacerbates his mental problems><..
~~
Losing the FO final in 2004 & especially under the circumstances>> where he pretty obviously choked away a 2-set-to-love lead, plus a couple of match points in the 5th set, was a crushing blow from which he`s never recovered!!.. Also it`s unlikely that Coria will ever recover from that because he realised he just blew what was clearly his best chance to win a Slam.. With Nadal`s dominace on clay & Federer`s dominance everywhere else I`m sure Coria realises the magnitude of his lost opportunity..

The way Coria lost the 04 FO is something that any player would have difficulty recovering from~>> but especially for Guille it was really a death sentence on his career. 2005 was decent but he still only won one MM tourney, & that`s all he`s won since the 04 FO metldown... Especially for a mentally fragile/insecure guy like Coria the French Open loss was something that clearly impacted on the rest of his career!!!..

jayjay
10-26-2006, 05:00 PM
[QUOTE=GeorgeWHitler;4349376]No, I am not solely claiming that at all. If a player is going to come back too early once, what is going to stop them doing it again?

I don't disagree that he wouldn't do it again, my disagreement was that coming back early in 2004 led to further problems. We have cleared that up now.

It worked for 2005, but it didn't work recently? Why was that the case?

None of his recent breaks worked, there have been too many to count (almost as many as his coaches). Now he is on an even longer break, hopefully that will be beneficial, but after so many breaks, and still no improvement, I'll believe it when I see it.

Apart from the factors I have already mentioned, the mental, the impact of the losses etc, the outside factors put them together and what do you have? It's just not an overnight problem.

I don't disagree with any of this in it's totality.

If he plays well enough in his best part of the season then he should be making the TMC and he did that, but RG is his tournament to peak and that was disappointing even though he was outplayed clearly.

RG was a disappointment, especially considering the beating he had handed out to Davydenko the year before. He didn't just have a good clay season though, he achieved his best result at Wimbledon (R4 - ok nothing major, but still), matched his best at USO QF, and then went on to Beijing and made the F. His indoor season was horrible and one to forget, certainly.

We can go patronising if you want. I really can't be bothered with it though.

You already had, which is why I brought it up, but I'm glad we are back on a more constructive track now. :)

A guy who has a lot of talent, but was never able to deliver it consistently. He improves on that side of things from mid 2004 to the start of 2006, yes that includes overall results improving on other surfaces besides clay.

You've lost me here, Gaudio's high level of mid 2004-2005 was solely on clay. His results elsewhere did not improve at all, his notable achievement was to make Montreal QF in 2005 - other than that he didn't win more than 2 matches anywhere I don't think (I stand to be corrected).

He starts losing matches where he wasn't in that timeframe and the fragile mind starts going off in different directions and he reaches a point where he can't go any further without addressing some issues and his tennis suffers, if he doesn't then it's regression.

I partially agree. Gaudio had become arguably (statistically there is no argument about it) the 2nd best clay courter around from winning RG to end of 2005, then this year he started to lose to those also rans that he used to lose to pre-RG 2004, and returned to his unstable state of mind on court. He has reverted back to the type of player he had been.

That's why I don't see Gaudio as a good example here, but I understand what you are getting at.

I don't think there is anywhere else to go on this one, so until next time. :wavey:

jayjay
10-26-2006, 05:01 PM
Especially for a mentally fragile/insecure guy like Coria the French Open loss was something that clearly impacted on the rest of his career!!!..

http://sportsmagician.blogspot.com/2006/10/magician-who-lost-his-box-of-tricks.html

Fed-Express
10-26-2006, 05:05 PM
###

Losing the FO final in 2004 & especially under the circumstances>> where he pretty obviously choked away a 2-set-to-love lead, plus a couple of match points in the 5th set
He choked? I don't think so. In the third set Gaudio just played amazing tennis, he was the better player. In the fourth Coria had cramps - neither an injury nor a choke - just a sign that he lacked stamina, his body wasn't strong enough.
After tanking in the fourth he played decently in the fifth but it wasn't enough.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 05:09 PM
None of his recent breaks worked, there have been too many to count (almost as many as his coaches). Now he is on an even longer break, hopefully that will be beneficial, but after so many breaks, and still no improvement, I'll believe it when I see it.

He has to find out what works for him and he should only come back when he is physically and more importantly mentally ready to play his best tennis. His talent won't disappear anytime soon.

RG was a disappointment, especially considering the beating he had handed out to Davydenko the year before. He didn't just have a good clay season though, he achieved his best result at Wimbledon (R4 - ok nothing major, but still), matched his best at USO QF, and then went on to Beijing and made the F. His indoor season was horrible and one to forget, certainly.

Davydenko surprised him and a lot of people and maybe he thought it's the PMK I should handle him as easily in 2004, but he got bitten badly, it happens to all players at least once.

You've lost me here, Gaudio's high level of mid 2004-2005 was solely on clay. His results elsewhere did not improve at all, his notable achievement was to make Montreal QF in 2005 - other than that he didn't win more than 2 matches anywhere I don't think (I stand to be corrected).

He made the QF in Paris and R16 Miami as well as Montreal those are significant results for a guy who has done poorly on non-clay surfaces and it was those results that helped qualify for Shanghai.

Got mentally fried out and couldn't sustain the level and should think about 2007 like his friend Coria.

CmonAussie
10-26-2006, 05:16 PM
http://sportsmagician.blogspot.com/2006/10/magician-who-lost-his-box-of-tricks.html
:wavey:
Thanks a lot jayjay mate:cool: .. Yeah that was a good read & just shows you what a cruel game tennis can be:sad:

CmonAussie
10-26-2006, 05:18 PM
He choked? I don't think so. In the third set Gaudio just played amazing tennis, he was the better player. In the fourth Coria had cramps - neither an injury nor a choke - just a sign that he lacked stamina, his body wasn't strong enough.
After tanking in the fourth he played decently in the fifth but it wasn't enough.
:wavey:
How about when Coria served for the match twice in the 5th set:confused:
How about the two match points:confused:
How about leading 6-0 6-3 4-3 love-30 for a break on Gaudio`s serve..:wavey:

In a word~~ CHOKE:p

tanga
10-26-2006, 05:21 PM
As far as I know, many coaches couldn't stand his father.
julio, I'd like to know what Coria 's father do in the history? (sorry for my poor english.) I dont get the relation between the coach and the father

jayjay
10-26-2006, 05:30 PM
:wavey:
Thanks a lot jayjay mate:cool: .. Yeah that was a good read & just shows you what a cruel game tennis can be:sad:

Cheers, glad you enjoyed it. :) Depressing as it was to write it at times, although some of the DF numbers just made me laugh.

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 05:32 PM
Cheers, glad you enjoyed it. :) Depressing as it was to write it at times, although some of the DF numbers just made me laugh.

He'd still win 1 and 1 on the WTA.

Fed-Express
10-26-2006, 05:50 PM
:wavey:
How about when Coria served for the match twice in the 5th set:confused:
How about the two match points:confused:
How about leading 6-0 6-3 4-3 love-30 for a break on Gaudio`s serve..:wavey:

In a word~~ CHOKE:p

How about not every time a guy lead and loses in the end it is a choke? I won't deny that if willy had been mentally stronger the match could have had a different outcome but there were many more factors that influenced the result.

jayjay
10-26-2006, 05:55 PM
He'd still win 1 and 1 on the WTA.

I'm not so sure about that anymore. :lol:

Action Jackson
10-26-2006, 05:57 PM
I'm not so sure about that anymore. :lol:

The only way they'd get a point are off his serves.

Metis
10-26-2006, 06:07 PM
I sincerely hope Coria can come back strong in 2007. Watching him play was one of the things that attracted me to tennis...

I think he could do it, but reading in previous posts that he also has marital problems leads me to believe that it is going to be very hard...

Julio1974
10-26-2006, 06:19 PM
julio, I'd like to know what Coria 's father do in the history? (sorry for my poor english.) I dont get the relation between the coach and the father

Coria's father did not have a good relationship with some of Coria's coaches.

tanga
10-26-2006, 06:44 PM
Coria's father did not have a good relationship with some of Coria's coaches.

thanks, I had understund that the first time:lol:
my question was, why? and why does Coria's father need to have good relationship with Coria's coaches? after all he is not a chid anymore, he should be able to take his own decisions without the agreement of his lovely dad:lol:

*Ljubica*
10-26-2006, 08:33 PM
thanks, I had understund that the first time:lol:
my question was, why? and why does Coria's father need to have good relationship with Coria's coaches? after all he is not a chid anymore, he should be able to take his own decisions without the agreement of his lovely dad:lol:

Coria's Father is also a tennis coach - and he has his own ideas on coaching and working practices. He is very close to his son and Guillermo respects him a lot and listens to what he says. Let's say that, quite often, what his Father suggests may not be the same as the ideas of his regular coaches - so there is obviously a conflict of interests.

dorkino
10-26-2006, 09:06 PM
Posted by Metis
I sincerely hope Coria can come back strong in 2007. Watching him play was one of the things that attracted me to tennis...

I think he could do it, but reading in previous posts that he also has marital problems leads me to believe that it is going to be very hard...

I think he can come back, but honnestly to come back and strong in 2007 seems far from happening.

njnetswill
10-27-2006, 12:34 AM
I think Coria is done. :(

I am still not over that RG 2004 loss.

(Notice how Coria and Gaudio are both spiraling downward)

DDrago2
10-27-2006, 12:53 AM
###
....
Just to simplify things a little~>> i believe Coria is an extemely insecure young man & the fact that he`s in denial about this only exacerbates his mental problems><..
~~
Losing the FO final in 2004 & especially under the circumstances>> where he pretty obviously choked away a 2-set-to-love lead, plus a couple of match points in the 5th set, was a crushing blow from which he`s never recovered!!.. Also it`s unlikely that Coria will ever recover from that because he realised he just blew what was clearly his best chance to win a Slam.. With Nadal`s dominace on clay & Federer`s dominance everywhere else I`m sure Coria realises the magnitude of his lost opportunity..

The way Coria lost the 04 FO is something that any player would have difficulty recovering from~>> but especially for Guille it was really a death sentence on his career. 2005 was decent but he still only won one MM tourney, & that`s all he`s won since the 04 FO metldown... Especially for a mentally fragile/insecure guy like Coria the French Open loss was something that clearly impacted on the rest of his career!!!..

I am not sure who said it (Mats Willander or McEnroe?) that Coria was devastated after his loss to Davydenko in RG 2005. It seems he realy was - since then he is in a free-fall

Who would say - only two years ago a question was if he can gepardise Federer... and I clearly remember Becker seeing him as a stabile top-5 player... I didn't think so, but never dreamed that he will be out of top 100 neither An incredible disaster, hard to understand

marti_228
10-27-2006, 03:06 AM
Today I read he started training and working with a famous American psychologist especialized in sports.

I hope he makes a comeback in 2007. It's obvious he loves tennis.

WhataQT
10-28-2006, 05:51 AM
Fading Coria turns to sports shrink as ranking tanks

dpa German Press Agency
Published: Thursday October 26, 2006

Buenos Aires- Former clay-court powerhouse Guillermo Coria has turned to an American sports psychologist in an attempt to salvage his career. The 2004 French Open finalist, whose ranking which once stood third in the world, has slid out of the Top 100. He had consultations with Florida mental sports guru Jim Loher, Argentine media reported.

Since reaching the Monte Carlo quarter-finals six months ago, Coria has lost seven times in the first round - six of those on clay.

The 24-year-old last played in September in a lower-level Challenger event in China where he failed to win a match. He is not expected to pick up a racket again until February.

Coria has been in strife all season, running through three coaches. The last was Horacio de La Pena, who formerly worked with Top ten Chilean Fernando Gonzalez and who lasted just 43 days with the mercurial Coria.

The desperate Argentine, who professes to speak little English in public, will work long distance with Loher, who has previously tutored Andre Agassi, Martina Navratilova, Ivan Lendl and Gabriela Sabatini.

Media reported that Coria had at one time considered retirement due to his failing game.

© 2006 dpa German Press Agency


http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Fading_Coria_turns_to_sports_shrink_10262006.html

jayjay
10-28-2006, 05:57 AM
The 24-year-old last played in September in a lower-level Challenger event in China where he failed to win a match.

For the record it was actually in Poland, not China.