Even more Nadal debating!! [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Even more Nadal debating!!

Pfloyd
10-24-2006, 04:48 AM
Should Nadal fans worry about this disappointing defeat? I would say yes, because when I watch his game, I donít see a guy whoís decisively better than the other guys in the Top 10. Actually, his success has always been a little surprising to me, the product of will as much as talent, which is one reason I'm a fan of his. Nadalís backhand is not a natural shot, and his serve and return are just OK, so heíll always play close matches where he relies on his intensity to pull him through. Which means heíll always be in danger of the upset to a guy who serves big and can pound it into his backhand side (unlike Federer, who has a much tougher serve and return).

I am surprised that itís Berdych who has his number. Nadal is an expert at getting guys running side-to-side with his hook forehands, and thatís obviously the key to beating the Big Berd.

This here comes from an article that was given to me via another debate.

Agree or Disagree?

I personally think that Rafa has more talent than this guy is willing to give him. But it is inevetable to say that Rafa has struggled a lot on HC recently. I believe that Rafa's first serve is good. Rafa's backhand may be "weird" but it's damn good.

Here's the full link: http://tennisworld.typepad.com/thewrap/2006/10/attitude_at_alt.html

mangoes
10-24-2006, 04:54 AM
Nadal Forum:shrug:

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 04:55 AM
The thing is that to make someone run in the court, you must take a leading position in the games. You must put yourself in command, and Berdych hits so deep and so hard that Nadal never gets to this point. Just watch their matches: Berdych is, for the most time, dictating play and making Nadal run.
Federer does pretty much the same thing, but his BH is vulnerable.

Pfloyd
10-24-2006, 04:56 AM
Nadal Forum:shrug:

I want to hear more than just Nadal fans give an opinion.

KaxMisha
10-24-2006, 04:57 AM
The thing is that to make someone run in the court, you must take a leading position in the games. You must put yourself in command, and Berdych hits so deep and so hard that Nadal never gets to this point. Just watch their matches: Berdych is, for the most time, dictating play and making Nadal run.
Federer does pretty much the same thing, but his BH is vulnerable.

Not as vulnerable as his head against Nadal, though.

JW10S
10-24-2006, 04:57 AM
Nadal's backhand and serve are not natural because his is actually a right hander who learned to play tennis left handed. Berdych is just the type of player who can give Nadal trouble. He is tall, so Nadal's high bouncing topspin bothers him less, he plays close to the baseline, and can serve. Johansson, who Nadal lost to the prior event, is also tall, serves well, and plays close to baseline. As for these loses being reason to worry, I don't think so. He is 20 years old--too soon to be writing him off just yet.

mandoura
10-24-2006, 04:58 AM
The thing is that to make someone run in the court, you must take a leading position in the games. You must put yourself in command, and Berdych hits so deep and so hard that Nadal never gets to this point. Just watch their matches: Berdych is, for the most time, dictating play and making Nadal run.
Federer does pretty much the same thing, but his BH is vulnerable.

Yes.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 04:59 AM
Not as vulnerable as his head against Nadal, though.

Agreed, but game-wise, the problem is the BH.

KaxMisha
10-24-2006, 05:00 AM
Agreed, but game-wise, the problem is the BH.

Definitely. He either over- or under-hits it, though really, he shouldn't be that stressed out to do something.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 05:04 AM
Definitely. He either over- or under-hits it, though really, he shouldn't be that stressed out to do something.

Yeah, he just loses patience... it's strange. He should slice them more...

World Beater
10-24-2006, 05:05 AM
i wouldnt worry.

we have seen the evolution of the a few of the great players in history, and nearly all of them had to change their games from when they started to when they finished.

e.g.sampras

when he started he was a baseline player...who had a good serve but not a powerful one...not like goran or becker...then when he became 21, he started to improve bh and serve/volley much more. serve became lethal etc.

then finally, he started to exclusively play s/v and chip/charge.

if nadal is truly a great player, he will find a way to overcome some of these challenges.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 05:06 AM
i wouldnt worry.

we have seen the evolution of the a few of the great players in history, and nearly all of them had to change their games from when they started to when they finished.

e.g.sampras

when he started he was a baseline player...who had a good serve but not a powerful one...not like goran or becker...then when he became 21, he started to improve bh and serve/volley much more. serve became lethal etc.

then finally, he started to exclusively play s/v and chip/charge.

if nadal is truly a great player, he will find a way to overcome some of these challenges.

I'm glad I'll be alive to see the demise of all "evolution" theories.

World Beater
10-24-2006, 05:09 AM
I'm glad I'll be alive to see the demise of all "evolution" theories.

:confused:

are u talking about tennis/and or nadal exclusively?

KaxMisha
10-24-2006, 05:14 AM
i wouldnt worry.

we have seen the evolution of the a few of the great players in history, and nearly all of them had to change their games from when they started to when they finished.

e.g.sampras

when he started he was a baseline player...who had a good serve but not a powerful one...not like goran or becker...then when he became 21, he started to improve bh and serve/volley much more. serve became lethal etc.

then finally, he started to exclusively play s/v and chip/charge.

if nadal is truly a great player, he will find a way to overcome some of these challenges.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if Nadal turned out to be clay's answer to Hewitt. I mean, imagine Hewitt changing his style and starting to hit winners all of the sudden. Hahahahahah. :D

World Beater
10-24-2006, 05:16 AM
I wouldn't be too sure about that. I wouldn't be surprised if Nadal turned out to be clay's answer to Hewitt. I mean, imagine Hewitt changing his style and starting to hit winners all of the sudden. Hahahahahah. :D

yes.

i said IF nadal is a truly great player, he will figure it out.

Hewitt is a very good player, and so is safin.

the "great" label is so overused these days.

KaxMisha
10-24-2006, 05:19 AM
yes.

i said IF nadal is a truly great player, he will figure it out.

Hewitt is a very good player, and so is safin.

the "great" label is so overused these days.

It depends on what you mean by "great". If you mean great in terms of maximum level of play and potential, Safin is about as great as they come. If you're talking about greatness in achievement, on the other hand... Well, I think we all agree that's a different story altogether. :)

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 05:21 AM
:confused:

are u talking about tennis/and or nadal exclusively?

Nadal.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 05:23 AM
Another thing is this: if Nadal had a little variety in his game, he could change the pace and try to make Berdych lose his consistency.

World Beater
10-24-2006, 05:30 AM
It depends on what you mean by "great". If you mean great in terms of maximum level of play and potential, Safin is about as great as they come. If you're talking about greatness in achievement, on the other hand... Well, I think we all agree that's a different story altogether. :)

great means "greatness" or achievements to me at least, and thats how ive seen it used.

greatness is a measure of a champion, not a measure of a how well a player can play on a given day.

thats why many players already have labelled federer as most talented, or most complete...but few have labelled him greatest. because greatness is not just talent/shotmaking...its about heart, determination and commitment...we have seen sampras' desire, now we have to see if federer will last as long.

sampras might have been the greatest player ever, and may be so because he is the best champion ever...14 gs.

potential/talent is overrated. the amount of talent that separates players today is very small, and nadal though talented is a player who exemplifies this best. safin can produce the odd brilliance, and is talented enough to be the best player in the world. but i can name at least a couple others who would have been the same league.

maybe safin could become agassi to federer's sampras....after all andre did disappear during the middle of pete's career only to finish strongly at the end. and not many predicted this...safin still has time, although i think his game is still to low-margin for error.

World Beater
10-24-2006, 05:32 AM
Another thing is this: if Nadal had a little variety in his game, he could change the pace and try to make Berdych lose his consistency.

he tried to do this, but his slice is nothing more than a block, and has very little underspin.

he used it more than i have seen him against others...

he is a smart player, but he doesnt have the weapons to hurt him.

mandoura
10-24-2006, 05:35 AM
Not as vulnerable as his head against Nadal, though.

Yeah, that too. Sometimes, I honnestly don't know/understand which came first: the backhand vulnerability or the mental edge, specially after that final in Dubai.

admiralpye
10-24-2006, 05:40 AM
As a Nadal fan, I am worried about the defeats he had lately, starting with Montreal. If the issue is fatigue, he seriously needs to work on his fitness if he wants to retain his number 2 status or possibly, by some miracle, get to number 1.

Or could it be his problem is motivation? After Wimbledon, it seemed his interviews about upcoming tournaments lacked that excitement he had last year. Either way, Rafa hasn't changed many things about his game (except for his improving serve), and stagnation is as dangerous as getting waylaid by injury.

What do you guys think?

nkhera1
10-24-2006, 05:47 AM
The thing is Nadal clearly knows what he needs to work on. Whether or not he can address all these issues remains to be seen. I personally think he will get better, but it is understandable that he will never be #1 on hardcourts and grass.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 05:52 AM
he tried to do this, but his slice is nothing more than a block, and has very little underspin.

he used it more than i have seen him against others...

he is a smart player, but he doesnt have the weapons to hurt him.

That's what I'm talking about. Robredo would like to be Federer too, but he hasn't the weapons for that.

kronus12
10-24-2006, 06:10 AM
Nadal will eventually need to change his style a bit now that other players are coming up with the gameplan to beat him.
Nadal will need to improve his serve and need to flatten out the ball more like he did in wimbledon.
I must admit i love to see rafal and roger play again see how their game matches up, according to alot of experts or so called experts fed backhand has vastly improved since RG, we will see when he plays nadal again.

bokehlicious
10-24-2006, 08:28 AM
Nadal Forum:shrug:

:yeah:

Pfloyd
10-24-2006, 12:12 PM
Give him time he'll be back, his pride wont let him lose much more tournaments IMO.

Boris Franz Ecker
10-24-2006, 01:20 PM
Nadal played well against Berdych, it's just, that Berdych is not a bad player (only against Federer, as many others).
Berdych defeated Roddick the day before and played great.

bokehlicious
10-24-2006, 01:37 PM
Give him time he'll be back, his pride wont let him lose much more tournaments IMO.

I'm afraid that pride alone isn't enough to win big titles... :shrug:

Fed-Express
10-24-2006, 02:03 PM
I've hears rumors that Federer might signing coach contracts with KaxMisha and GlennMirnyi soon, since dumbhead Roche could't provide the knowledge how to beat Nadal :sad: :haha:

Pfloyd
10-24-2006, 02:37 PM
Nadal played well against Berdych, it's just, that Berdych is not a bad player (only against Federer, as many others).
Berdych defeated Roddick the day before and played great.

This is quite true, Berdych is a very good player. There is no shame in this loss. Nadal will beat him on HC eventually. On cinncinati, last year, he had a Match point against him...

KaxMisha
10-24-2006, 03:06 PM
I've hears rumors that Federer might signing coach contracts with KaxMisha and GlennMirnyi soon, since dumbhead Roche could't provide the knowledge how to beat Nadal :sad: :haha:

Knowledge never was the problem, You should know that.

Roger The Great
10-24-2006, 04:38 PM
I know this isn't a popular thought with Nadal fans, but I truly believe Nadal may take a similar path to Hewitt, but with stronger one surface results. I believe that at 19 or 20, Nadal may be at his peak. Most weapons are well developed in players by 19 or 20 and what yet needs to be developed is consistency and mental toughness. But what happens when a player already has those things at 19 or 20? They hit maturity far younger. Nadal may run into the same problem that Hewitt did, which is beating up on his fellow young crop of players until they develop their own consistency and mental toughness.

I'm not saying this is definitely the case for Nadal but it's what my gut tells me right now.

Ad Wim
10-24-2006, 05:24 PM
But Hewitt was number one in his time, Nadal has one player above him who is clearly better. That's tough for Rafa, because I think he may have to wait a couple of years to become number 1 and at that time maybe Berdych, Djokovic and Gasquet have become better than Rafa simply because they are more talented.

Fed-Express
10-24-2006, 05:49 PM
... but it's what my gut tells me right now.

So Colbert :haha:

Roger The Great
10-24-2006, 06:01 PM
So Colbert :haha:

Who's Colbert? :confused: