What`s so bad about being a MOONBALLER~??~. [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

What`s so bad about being a MOONBALLER~??~.

CmonAussie
10-23-2006, 05:39 PM
:wavey:
When it comes to playing tennis my talents are pretty limited~ so I`ve taken inspiration from the joy Nadal seems to get from ripping those massively top spinning forehands->> or moonballs as they`re referred to around MTF:eek:
...
...If we can`t be as smooth, & graceful like a ballerina [damn talented]~ a la Federer, then surely it makes sense to try the Nadal technique & hope for the same enjoyable results [okay okay I`m not going to be holding up the FO trophy anytime soon:sad: ]..
~~
>> What I mean is why are tennis experts:p so critical of moonballing:confused: .
Frankly I think it`s fun to do & fun to watch if done with powerful aggression:devil:

GlennMirnyi
10-23-2006, 05:40 PM
Moonballing is the ultimate display of technical deficiency, so...

CmonAussie
10-23-2006, 05:47 PM
Moonballing is the ultimate display of technical deficiency, so...
I disagree:eek: ... Making a circular swing with a tennis racket & hitting with enough speed/power to make the ball bounce near the baseline of the opposite side of the court and spin wikedly there, takes a fair amount of technique;) .. It may not be the technique you prefer to watch but it`s still a technique nontheless:angel:

alfonsojose
10-23-2006, 06:01 PM
Nadal is such a bad example. Kids will going to die in the gym trying to get his biceps while hitting the ball like using a bat to kill pigs :scared:

Naranoc
10-23-2006, 06:01 PM
When it comes to playing tennis my talents are pretty limited

:lol: You've just shot yourself in the foot by basically saying that moonballing is what you do when you don't have much talent ;)

CmonAussie
10-23-2006, 06:11 PM
:lol: You've just shot yourself in the foot by basically saying that moonballing is what you do when you don't have much talent ;)
:wavey:
Mate:cool: ~~It`s the same in all sports, the less talented have to find a way to win:devil: .. For example in golf~> most people don`t have the flexibility or strength of Tiger Woods, so should they give up:sad: .. Many golfers have developed a punch shot that`s reliable & effective at getting sufficient length on iron shots, instead of a full flowing graceful swing;) .. Moonballing helps people like me enjoy tennis:D

Allez
10-23-2006, 06:38 PM
Mate, unless you have the speed and physique of a Rafael Nadal you're setting yourself up for a quick slaughter unless you quit moonballing around ;) I'm sure there are players even at your level who would have you for breakfast if all you can do is play defensive tennis all day long. Of course if you're well endowed with good genes, you may have a chance to frustrate your opponents and win ugly:eek:

Jim Courier
10-23-2006, 06:51 PM
Here i thought moonballing meant playing like a high balls pusher. Nadal's balls must weigh a ton, regardless of their alleged heigth. There is probably not a single professional moonballer in the true sense of the term.
Or has it been redefined by internet knights who must defend the honor of low balls against all slights to mean any ball higher than shoulder?

FerrersLinda
10-23-2006, 06:54 PM
I think you have a valid point. It's just a different technique, one that I'm not to crazy about but none the less a technique. Yes I know Ferrer is one of them too, don't shoot me let me finish, but I admire him for his willpower and fight.(btw high time you start showing some of that again Sr. Ferrer:( )

Go ahead shoot me, bad rep me, push me of a cliff ........ I know you all want to.:rolleyes:

cmurray
10-23-2006, 07:06 PM
By my definition, Rafa is NOT a moonballer. If, by moonballer, you mean a person who plays defensive tennis, then yes I suppose he's that...but with his quickness, if he didn't run down balls, it would be a waste of his talents. ANd it isn't like the guy never hits winners - he does...itisn't all about waiting for his opponent to make a mistake (thought that's some of it).

I dunno - I think Rafa is a pretty talented player in his own right.

Allez
10-23-2006, 07:16 PM
I agree Nadal is no moonballer in the classical sense, but if you want to be a moonballer, you'd better have his other assets otherwise you're toast.

PamV
10-23-2006, 07:17 PM
I disagree:eek: ... Making a circular swing with a tennis racket & hitting with enough speed/power to make the ball bounce near the baseline of the opposite side of the court and spin wikedly there, takes a fair amount of technique;) .. It may not be the technique you prefer to watch but it`s still a technique nontheless:angel:

What you discribe is a lob. Not all moonballing is about lobbing to the baseline when the opponent is near the net. Sometimes it's about just two people moonballing back and forth from the baseline with easy to reach shots......just waiting to see which one gets tired first.

Hendu
10-23-2006, 07:18 PM
I agree Nadal is no moonballer in the classical sense, but if you want to be a moonballer, you'd better have his other assets otherwise you're toast.

What is moonballer in the classical sense?

zicofirol
10-23-2006, 07:18 PM
its playing to not lose instead of playing to win, I cant stand moonballers... Although Nadal attacks more than a moonballer im not sure I would put him as a moonballer.

Macbrother
10-23-2006, 07:20 PM
Nadal can hit very flat shots as well, that's why he's so good and dangerous on clay courts, he can hit 3 or 4 deep topspin balls that give you plenty of reaction time then throw opponents off with a crushing flat forehand, he did it plenty of times to Federer in the final.

It's not quite as pure, true, and flush, as hitting a flat shot so in terms of technicality it probably is looked down upon, but still obviously can be very effective.

Edit: And calling it a moonball is exaggerating a little, if you want to see true moonballs, watch Chang's '89 R16 match against Lendl, those are moonballs.

Hendu
10-23-2006, 07:21 PM
its playing to not lose instead of playing to win, I cant stand moonballers... Although Nadal attacks more than a moonballer im not sure I would put him as a moonballer.

I see.

Which are moonballers in todays ATP tour?

JMG
10-23-2006, 07:21 PM
What is moonballer in the classical sense?

Someone who's playing moonballs and waiting for errors. Di Mauro does it sometimes.

cmurray
10-23-2006, 07:27 PM
Nadal can hit very flat shots as well, that's why he's so good and dangerous on clay courts, he can hit 3 or 4 deep topspin balls that give you plenty of reaction time then throw opponents off with a crushing flat forehand, he did it plenty of times to Federer in the final.

It's not quite as pure, true, and flush, as hitting a flat shot so in terms of technicality it probably is looked down upon, but still obviously can be very effective.

Edit: And calling it a moonball is exaggerating a little, if you want to see true moonballs, watch Chang's '89 R16 match against Lendl, those are moonballs.

Good post, Mac. Chang couldn't even move during that match. he would just stick his racquet out and pray for the ball to go in. No WAY Nadal does that.

Hendu
10-23-2006, 07:29 PM
Nadal a moonballer?

why? because he uses topspin?

Then Borg was a moonballer.

Allez
10-23-2006, 09:01 PM
What is moonballer in the classical sense?

Erm... Arantxa Sánchez Vicario :shrug:

guga2120
10-23-2006, 09:10 PM
Moonballing? You need to put topspin on your shots to win on clay, unless Your Gustavo:) , and Nadal who i guess your referring too has the most devasting shot on clay, his forehand, and he hits it a ton, and his backhand as seen at wimbledon is pretty flat. If you don't play like Federer it does not mean its wrong or bad, it matters who wins the match.

Allure
10-23-2006, 09:11 PM
A lot of people view moonballing as not aesthetically pleasing and not technically proficient.

guga2120
10-23-2006, 09:16 PM
and alot of people view just hitting the ball as hard as you can, ala Roddick, and just being about power completly boring, and one dimensional.

Allstar
10-23-2006, 09:19 PM
If everyone was a moonballer then points would last for ages and just end with an error. It would be so slow. Everyone likes a bit of variety but the majority love the big winners

lordmanji
10-23-2006, 09:19 PM
Moonballing = topspin about 15feet high and over (five times the height of the net). Sanchez Vicario, Mauresmo, Chang -- all moonball. It's used to change up what opponent sees and as a defensive shot when pulled off the court.

At the amateur level and i mean below 3.5 on ntrp scale, moonballing to me is uncontrolled shots with little topspin that resemble more lobs.

MisterQ
10-23-2006, 10:03 PM
You gotta do what you gotta do.

If you can't hit the ball like Agassi or Federer, moonballing can be part of that equation.

Personally, I appreciate someone who is smart enough to throw in changes of pace and height of shot to upset the opponent's timing. It gets boring if it's done too routinely, but I suppose it's ultimately about winning, not aesthetics. ;)

I have been known to moonball, but I also attack the net sometimes, so maybe the purists will forgive me. :lol:

¿esquímaux?
10-23-2006, 10:20 PM
:wavey:
When it comes to playing tennis my talents are pretty limited~ so I`ve taken inspiration from the joy Nadal seems to get from ripping those massively top spinning forehands->> or moonballs as they`re referred to around MTF:eek:
...
...If we can`t be as smooth, & graceful like a ballerina [damn talented]~ a la Federer, then surely it makes sense to try the Nadal technique & hope for the same enjoyable results [okay okay I`m not going to be holding up the FO trophy anytime soon:sad: ]..
~~
>> What I mean is why are tennis experts:p so critical of moonballing:confused: .
Frankly I think it`s fun to do & fun to watch if done with powerful aggression:devil: Well God bless you hun! Although, I prefer not to play moonballers because quite frankly they wear me out, one does what one can! :yeah:

MisterQ
10-23-2006, 11:22 PM
Maybe we can coin a new style name just for you: Moon-and-volley. :lol:


:hug: Thank you so much! Now I know how to define myself. :rolls:

Tennis Fool
10-23-2006, 11:51 PM
I disagree with the premise that moonballing means you lack talent. Nadal is No. 2, was beating pros in exhibitions at age 14 and so on. He lacks an all-court game, but so do many players (ie Roddick...)

Also, Spanish players are known for their defensive tennis. He just plays as he was taught.

I think "moonballer" is probably just a derogative name for those who win defensively on clay courts.

Pfloyd
10-24-2006, 12:05 AM
I'm amazed to see so many people coming here to defend Nadal's "moonballer" label. I thought Nadal was one of the Top 5 most loathed players in MTF.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 12:17 AM
Moonballer is a player that rarely (or never) plays offensively and uses high balls with topspin to find some time to hit the next ball. Nadal is the biggest moonballer. He simply never hits flat (and by flat you know that I'm talking about flatter and not purely flat, as everybody plays with spin nowadays). Even his swing is ridiculous, just look at that.

+alonso
10-24-2006, 12:19 AM
Moonballer is a player that rarely (or never) plays offensively and uses high balls with topspin to find some time to hit the next ball. Nadal is the biggest moonballer. He simply never hits flat (and by flat you know that I'm talking about flatter and not purely flat, as everybody plays with spin nowadays). Even his swing is ridiculous, just look at that.

Well, We know rankings do justice, Nadal #2 in the world ....
Any player who hits flat, out of Top10


Sad as it sounds!

General Suburbia
10-24-2006, 12:21 AM
Yes, because those who hit flat are usually women. No offense.

guga2120
10-24-2006, 12:24 AM
Moonballer is a player that rarely (or never) plays offensively and uses high balls with topspin to find some time to hit the next ball. Nadal is the biggest moonballer. He simply never hits flat (and by flat you know that I'm talking about flatter and not purely flat, as everybody plays with spin nowadays). Even his swing is ridiculous, just look at that.

Yes he does that on the forehand on clay, and it seems to be working ok with him, his backhand even on clay is farely flat, never the less topspin or not there is not 1 right way to hit a tennis ball.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 12:25 AM
Well, We know rankings do justice, Nadal #2 in the world ....
Any player who hits flat, out of Top10


Sad as it sounds!

Ever heard about Federer, boy?

MisterQ
10-24-2006, 12:53 AM
Pics from Nadal's latest practice:

http://www.moondaily.com/images/moon-tennis-bg.jpg

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/178000/178093DiKH_w.jpg

r2473
10-24-2006, 01:17 AM
Moonballer is a player that rarely (or never) plays offensively and uses high balls with topspin to find some time to hit the next ball. Nadal is the biggest moonballer. He simply never hits flat (and by flat you know that I'm talking about flatter and not purely flat, as everybody plays with spin nowadays). Even his swing is ridiculous, just look at that.

I think you must be in that 2% sleepy zone you talk about in your little blurb.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 01:18 AM
I think you must be in that 2% sleepy zone you talk about in your little blurb.

And you in the 98% of this forum that understand nothing about the game.

+alonso
10-24-2006, 01:21 AM
Ever heard about Federer, boy?

He does not particulary hits the ball either flat or with too much top spin, We both know how Federer can play That's well known.

Federer can play brilliant using balls with too much spin or either flat groundstrokes

Oh, do not call me boy, If you meant to say I'm younger than you're, please some respect, If you did not meant to say it in that way, forget it.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 01:23 AM
He does not particulary hits the ball either flat or with too much top spin, We both know how Federer can play That's well known.

Federer can play brilliant using balls with too much spin or either flat groundstrokes

Oh, do not call me boy, If you meant to say I'm younger than you're, please some respect, If you did not meant to say it in that way, forget it.

Sorry, didn't want to offend you, mate. Ok? :)

That's what I'm talking about. He can play either flat or with spin. A moonballer only plays with a hell lotta spin, never offensively.

morningglory
10-24-2006, 01:27 AM
bcuz matches with 2 moonballers are lethally boring...
It is a cowardly style of play that relies on the opponent having a bad day with UE's... if the opponent is on, he'll rip those for winners... esp on the men's side where there is plenty of power...
If you win or lose, it's not on your terms, but on your opponents'

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 01:28 AM
bcuz matches with 2 moonballers are lethally boring...
It is a cowardly style of play that relies on the opponent having a bad day with UE's... if the opponent is on, he'll rip those for winners... esp on the men's side where there is plenty of power...
If you win or lose, it's not on your terms, but on your opponents'

That's exactly what I think.

cmurray
10-24-2006, 01:29 AM
Sorry, didn't want to offend you, mate. Ok? :)

That's what I'm talking about. He can play either flat or with spin. A moonballer only plays with a hell lotta spin, never offensively.

Are you saying that Rafa never plays offensively??? How many times did he come to net at Wimbledon?

+alonso
10-24-2006, 01:31 AM
Sorry, didn't want to offend you, mate. Ok? :)

That's what I'm talking about. He can play either flat or with spin. A moonballer only plays with a hell lotta spin, never offensively.

Ok ;)

So, my point is, Even Nadal, being a moon baller like you say, could reach such a high rank like getting to the 2nd spot in the world, Of course, Fed can't be compared, and That means even moonballers who don't lack of technique can reach a high level so I do not see your point about moonballers being a joke. Just that

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 01:33 AM
Ok ;)

So, my point is, Even Nadal, being a moon baller like you say, could reach such a high rank like getting to the 2nd spot in the world, Of course, Fed can't be compared, and That means even moonballers who don't lack of technique can reach a high level so I do not see your point about moonballers being a joke. Just that

They are a joke because they play cowardly, waiting for the other player to make UE.

I mean, isn't it much better seeing Gonzalez ripping out those FH than Nadal sending those high balls?

+alonso
10-24-2006, 01:41 AM
They are a joke because they play cowardly, waiting for the other player to make UE.

I mean, isn't it much better seeing Gonzalez ripping out those FH than Nadal sending those high balls?

Although is tough to understand sometimes, those are type of plays like you know, some can look nicer than others, but believe me, Nadal's style of play is absolutely valid, I do think, those players that can't handle Nadal's style for ex. Gonzalez, Acasuso, etc. whom can't wait too much, 'cause that's not their way to play, can be as frustrating as Nadal's style of play :shrug: and boring for some others!

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 01:48 AM
Although is tough to understand sometimes, those are type of plays like you know, some can look nicer than others, but believe me, Nadal's style of play is absolutely valid, I do think, those players that can't handle Nadal's style for ex. Gonzalez, Acasuso, etc. whom can't wait too much, 'cause that's not their way to play, can be as frustrating as Nadal's style of play :shrug: and boring for some others!

Yeah, I'm not saying it's cheating... it's just kinda coward and technically deficient.

+alonso
10-24-2006, 02:00 AM
Yeah, I'm not saying it's cheating... it's just kinda coward and technically deficient.

All of us have different points of view, at least that's not what I think.

Glad to say this comes to an end 'cause as far as I know, There's nothing We can do about opinions and I could finally understand you a little more, of course that does not mean I agree with you.

.
:)

guga2120
10-24-2006, 02:38 AM
They are a joke because they play cowardly, waiting for the other player to make UE.

I mean, isn't it much better seeing Gonzalez ripping out those FH than Nadal sending those high balls?


So i guess you prefer Roddick and the Williams sisters hitting it as hard as they can with no thought at all and alot of unforced errors? There is a reason why those excel at Wimbledon and struggle to win a round on clay.

+alonso
10-24-2006, 02:40 AM
EDIT : DARN! :lol: You switched the quotes :lol: I though it was for me, nevermind

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 02:45 AM
So i guess you prefer Roddick and the Williams sisters hitting it as hard as they can with no thought at all and alot of unforced errors? There is a reason why those excel at Wimbledon and struggle to win a round on clay.

Wow.
1st: Wimbledon is the land of champions, don't try to make it less important. It's not because they slowed down the game and practically nullified the art of S&V that you can make generalizations like that. No moonballer wins Wimbledon.

2nd: Roddick at least isn't a coward playing defensive all the time, he tries to attack, as bad as he does.

guga2120
10-24-2006, 02:52 AM
Wow.
1st: Wimbledon is the land of champions, don't try to make it less important. It's not because they slowed down the game and practically nullified the art of S&V that you can make generalizations like that. No moonballer wins Wimbledon.

2nd: Roddick at least isn't a coward playing defensive all the time, he tries to attack, as bad as he does.

There is a reason the grass court season is a few weeks, like Safin said," Grass is for cows."
And are you saying Nadal the guy who Agassi said plays harder than anybody he has ever played is a coward, and he never gives up:confused:
So i guess you think low of Agassi and Connors b/c they did not just bomb the serve and volley either?

A really great player can play great on all surfaces, ala Federer and Agassi.
There is more than one way to play the game.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 02:57 AM
There is a reason the grass court season is a few weeks, like Safin said," Grass is for cows."
And are you saying Nadal the guy who Agassi said plays harder than anybody he has ever played is a coward, and he never gives up:confused:
So i guess you think low of Agassi and Connors b/c they did not just bomb the serve and volley either?

A really great player can play great on all surfaces, ala Federer and Agassi.
There is more than one way to play the game.

You're taking one opinion as truth, that's ridiculous.

Tennis was born on grass, go figure out the rest yourself.

Agassi is the upgraded Connors. He goes for the shots, always in the offensive.

~*BGT*~
10-24-2006, 03:04 AM
So i guess you prefer Roddick and the Williams sisters hitting it as hard as they can with no thought at all and alot of unforced errors? There is a reason why those excel at Wimbledon and struggle to win a round on clay.

Didn't they get to the French Open final in 2002? :confused: And then Wimbledon? :confused: :confused:

World Beater
10-24-2006, 03:04 AM
i think a moonballer can be classified as someone who doesnt take the ball early, but brushes down and up rather than up and through, exaggerating the vertical vector of the ball's spin...nadal's fh is a perfect example of a moonballing shot.

bruguera, sanchez vicario and mantilla are also moonballers.

with the improved technology-string and better physique, nadal can take a neutral/defensive shot and make it offensive with the amount of topspin he generates.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 03:08 AM
Novak plays flat and won Gstaad (twice) and Munich.

guga2120
10-24-2006, 03:12 AM
just b/c you play flat does mean your good. Alot of women hit the ball flat.

And Defense is as important as anything, Federer is great at it, and when he gets an opening he hits the winner thats why he always kicks Roddicks ass, b/c of his defense.

GlennMirnyi
10-24-2006, 03:17 AM
just b/c you play flat does mean your good. Alot of women hit the ball flat.

And Defense is as important as anything, Federer is great at it, and when he gets an opening he hits the winner thats why he always kicks Roddicks ass, b/c of his defense.

I'm not saying that playing flat makes you good. I'm saying a good player should be able to play flat whenever he needs to.

Hendu
10-24-2006, 04:12 AM
i think a moonballer can be classified as someone who doesnt take the ball early, but brushes down and up rather than up and through

Whats the point in taking the ball early when playing on clay?

The ball will not go fast. You are just risking the shot unnecessarily.

Its just better to play heavy shots with a lot of topspin. The ball accelerates after it touches the ground.

exaggerating the vertical vector of the ball's spin...nadal's fh is a perfect example of a moonballing shot.

bruguera, sanchez vicario and mantilla are also moonballers.

If Nadal is a moonballer, then all claycourters are.

Nadal, as well as Gaudio, Moya, Ferrero, Massu are not moonballers. They try to take command of the game whenever they have the chance.

with the improved technology-string and better physique, nadal can take a neutral/defensive shot and make it offensive with the amount of topspin he generates.

Its not like Nadal is the first player good at counterpunching.
Coria and Massu for example are great at that in todays game.

Yeah, I'm not saying it's cheating... it's just kinda coward and technically deficient.

Playing with topspin is technically deficient??

:lol:

Yes, go tell that to Borg.

They are a joke because they play cowardly, waiting for the other player to make UE.

Its just not convenient to rush points when you play on clay. Thats why tennis on clay is better, you need more of a strategy, you need to build points. Not like in the other surfaces, where players can put an end to the points with only one shot.

Of course, being a good defender is essential for claycourt players. Most of them are. Moya being an exception.

I mean, isn't it much better seeing Gonzalez ripping out those FH than Nadal sending those high balls?

No!

I like players who understand the game, smart tennis. Watching players hitting FHs and BHs from everywhere with their eyes closed, is not what I like the most.

Hendu
10-24-2006, 04:18 AM
I'm not saying that playing flat makes you good. I'm saying a good player should be able to play flat whenever he needs to.

As they should ba able to play with topspin and slice.

Those are some of the things that make Federer and Nalbandian good players on all surfaces.

Hokit
10-24-2006, 04:37 AM
:wavey:
When it comes to playing tennis my talents are pretty limited~ so I`ve taken inspiration from the joy Nadal seems to get from ripping those massively top spinning forehands->> or moonballs as they`re referred to around MTF:eek:
...
...If we can`t be as smooth, & graceful like a ballerina [damn talented]~ a la Federer, then surely it makes sense to try the Nadal technique & hope for the same enjoyable results [okay okay I`m not going to be holding up the FO trophy anytime soon:sad: ]..
~~
>> What I mean is why are tennis experts:p so critical of moonballing:confused: .
Frankly I think it`s fun to do & fun to watch if done with powerful aggression:devil:

Moonballing = lobbing = giving your opponent a gift to smash a huge flat shot in whatever direction he decides :p

OK, Nadal does great top-spin shots and these are faster spinning than lobs/moonballs and therefore gives his opponents less time to set themselves up for a flat shot winner. But top-spins are generally unreliable since I find (when I'm playing) that they have a higher unforced error count and a top-spin game style is the type of game flat shot hard hitters match up well against.

Plus it's boring watching a moonballing contest between dirtballers. It's not as boring as those games on grass where 99% of the shots hit are from aces, but I agree with what someone else said - moonballing is a cop-out and is really used because it's the easiest (and therefore a no-brainer) way to break your opponents rhythm and hit outside their comfort zone (which is below the knees and above the elbows). Federer's successful because he can break his opponent's rhythm without having to moonball - this cuts down the risk of unforced errors and doesn't give his opponent much time to respond; moonballing is slow (another reason why it's boring to watch) and gives the opponent all the time in world the get his feet in position and just wait for the ball to bounce towards him. And presto! He has a choice to either return with another moonball or smack a winner.

Btw, I'm not sure whether I understood "moonballing" 100%. Can someone clarify whether my understanding's correct? Thanks :)

Action Jackson
10-24-2006, 06:37 AM
Nothing wrong with being a moonballer. I could go on a massive spiel about it, but most of it has been explained already.

It's just basic stereotyping and typecasting, there are some players who are moonballers, but not all of them who play on clay are. The fact that the clay courts have been quickened significantly means there have been reductions in 30m net clearance and the 70 shot rallies.

CmonAussie
10-24-2006, 07:07 AM
Well God bless you hun! Although, I prefer not to play moonballers because quite frankly they wear me out, one does what one can! :yeah:
:wavey: ~Thanks.. Yes I`m just doing what I can to stay alive on the tennis court~>> if it wasn`t for my moonballing then I`d have no chance once I got into a rally:sad: .. Atleast I know my opponents might tank out of boredom the way I loop the ball back & forth;)
PS#.Please take me only semi-seriously:p

CmonAussie
10-24-2006, 07:16 AM
Moonballing = lobbing = giving your opponent a gift to smash a huge flat shot in whatever direction he decides :p

OK, Nadal does great top-spin shots and these are faster spinning than lobs/moonballs and therefore gives his opponents less time to set themselves up for a flat shot winner. But top-spins are generally unreliable since I find (when I'm playing) that they have a higher unforced error count and a top-spin game style is the type of game flat shot hard hitters match up well against.

Plus it's boring watching a moonballing contest between dirtballers. It's not as boring as those games on grass where 99% of the shots hit are from aces, but I agree with what someone else said - moonballing is a cop-out and is really used because it's the easiest (and therefore a no-brainer) way to break your opponents rhythm and hit outside their comfort zone (which is below the knees and above the elbows). Federer's successful because he can break his opponent's rhythm without having to moonball - this cuts down the risk of unforced errors and doesn't give his opponent much time to respond; moonballing is slow (another reason why it's boring to watch) and gives the opponent all the time in world the get his feet in position and just wait for the ball to bounce towards him. And presto! He has a choice to either return with another moonball or smack a winner.

Btw, I'm not sure whether I understood "moonballing" 100%. Can someone clarify whether my understanding's correct? Thanks :)
:wavey:
Okie dokies that`s a thoughtful post~> so I appreciate it Hokit:cool:
--
...>>I still think there`s a fine line between lobbying & moonballing;) ... A lob is a shot that`s played over someone`s head [ie.when your opponent is nearer the net] & is deliberately hit high enough to be out of their outstreched arm reach:devil: ... However a moonball [atleast in the sense which Nadal is referred to as one] is a much more aggressive swing struck to clear the net but only by a couple of metres at the most, & designed to have sufficient topspin to dip near the baseline with enough velocity to make it awkward for the opponent to make their usual comfort zone forehand swing:angel: .. If a few of these are hit in succession the likelyhood of the opponent misfiring on their reply will increase->> resulting in a forced error:eek:
To me moonballing in the sense that`s been referred to commonly on MTF in recent years is very much a shot requiring a lot of technique:cool:

PS#.Lobbying requires not so much technique but more so perfect anticipation;)

Hokit
10-25-2006, 09:09 AM
:wavey:
Okie dokies that`s a thoughtful post~> so I appreciate it Hokit:cool:
--
...>>I still think there`s a fine line between lobbying & moonballing;) ... A lob is a shot that`s played over someone`s head [ie.when your opponent is nearer the net] & is deliberately hit high enough to be out of their outstreched arm reach:devil: ... However a moonball [atleast in the sense which Nadal is referred to as one] is a much more aggressive swing struck to clear the net but only by a couple of metres at the most, & designed to have sufficient topspin to dip near the baseline with enough velocity to make it awkward for the opponent to make their usual comfort zone forehand swing:angel: .. If a few of these are hit in succession the likelyhood of the opponent misfiring on their reply will increase->> resulting in a forced error:eek:
To me moonballing in the sense that`s been referred to commonly on MTF in recent years is very much a shot requiring a lot of technique:cool:

PS#.Lobbying requires not so much technique but more so perfect anticipation;)

Thanks for the info :)

One quick question though - isn't what you explained about moonballing the same as a topspin? Those are the kind of shots I do when I'm playing - instead of rallying with hard flat shots that go about 20cm above the net, I hit the ball a lot higher (p.s. that's also why not many like rallying with me because when they do, it doesn't last for more than 3-5 shots since I'm always hitting out of people's comfort zone :p ).

Or is moonballing slang for top-spin? :eek:

avocadoe
10-25-2006, 12:42 PM
best example of a moonballer in wta is Anna Smashnova, in spite of her great last name, she drives the opponent crazy with her air attack...she does it when outmatched by power. It only works against those who can't take the ball early, or out of the air, and advance to the net, or have the patience of Saints, to turn it back on her. Rafa Nadal is not a moonballer, imo.

CmonAussie
10-25-2006, 12:59 PM
best example of a moonballer in wta is Anna Smashnova, in spite of her great last name, she drives the opponent crazy with her air attack...she does it when outmatched by power. It only works against those who can't take the ball early, or out of the air, and advance to the net, or have the patience of Saints, to turn it back on her. Rafa Nadal is not a moonballer, imo.
:wavey:
That`s cool:cool: ~~>> but then how should be classify Nadal`s brand of tennis:devil: :confused:
...
...I only started this thread because I thought there was nothing wrong with Nadal`s technique of tennis~>> which I`m personally trying to mimic in the hope of giving my tennis pals a fight for their money;) ... Since the Federer technique is out of the question for me:sad:

Ernham
10-25-2006, 01:06 PM
:wavey:
Mate:cool: ~~It`s the same in all sports, the less talented have to find a way to win:devil: .. For example in golf~> most people don`t have the flexibility or strength of Tiger Woods, so should they give up:sad: .. Many golfers have developed a punch shot that`s reliable & effective at getting sufficient length on iron shots, instead of a full flowing graceful swing;) .. Moonballing helps people like me enjoy tennis:D

A chimp can hit a long drive with the technology today. Talent died in golf many, many years ago. Now it's all about who wants to spend their entire young adult life practising to squeeze out that tiny bit lower score.

Nadal_Fanatic
08-12-2008, 02:49 AM
I wish more people moonballed actually. It definitely brings more variety to the game of otherwise ballbashing style.

opeth84
08-12-2008, 05:02 AM
Wow.
1st: Wimbledon is the land of champions, don't try to make it less important. It's not because they slowed down the game and practically nullified the art of S&V that you can make generalizations like that. No moonballer wins Wimbledon.

2nd: Roddick at least isn't a coward playing defensive all the time, he tries to attack, as bad as he does.

Nice bump Nadal Fanatic :)

smileitsmyan
08-12-2008, 05:07 AM
I wish I could moonball it like Nadal :lol:

leng jai
08-12-2008, 06:24 AM
I wish more people moonballed actually. It definitely brings more variety to the game of otherwise ballbashing style.

Typical Rafatard post :retard:

Bazooka
08-12-2008, 08:45 AM
Moonballing by lobs = losing to aggresive players.

Moonballing by topspin = almost never netting, almost never going beyond baseline, causing many UE's from rival as the bounce is always irregular because topspin always has some angle.

So it's a good technique, because your rival must choose between hitting the ball as it bounces, with lots of risk, or going way behind the baseline that is exactly where a moonballer wants you.

But you need to spend 5x the strenght required for a flat shot, and need time to prepare the shot. Also a low bouncing surface requires you to make a much greater effort to raise the ball and makes less effective your topspin. As an added problem, if it's not a natural shot for you (i.e. trained from childhood) it can become unreliable easily, as you must just brush the ball with a huge strenght right at the perfect time and angle.

I don't moonball, just add some topspin to my forehand to make sure they're over the net, as most players do. But I regularly play a guy with a huge topspin both wings. Frustrating, I tell you, mostly with my BH which I really can't hit high, like poor Fed. Must slice it everytime.

bokehlicious
08-12-2008, 08:49 AM
You moonball when your skills don't allow you to play otherwise :shrug:

Kolya
08-12-2008, 09:52 AM
You moonball when your skills don't allow you to play otherwise :shrug:

That statement is true in a sense. Not everyone can hit power shots on both wings so they turn to more net clearance and aim for depth.

I'm a moonballer myself :devil:

Nadal_Fanatic
08-12-2008, 10:01 AM
You moonball when your skills don't allow you to play otherwise :shrug:
Or maybe to mix it up. Some players don't like playing against someone that moonballs and get frustrated. In that case, it works. Whatever strategy works best, you use it.

Vida
08-12-2008, 01:22 PM
Nothing bad with being a mooonballer. I'm a (recreational) moonballer par excellence. Until someone comes along and feeds me a bagel or a breadstick, when my moonballing sh*t doesn't work. Luckily, I don't meet many of those.

RafaTheBest
08-12-2008, 01:46 PM
Wow.
1st: Wimbledon is the land of champions, don't try to make it less important. It's not because they slowed down the game and practically nullified the art of S&V that you can make generalizations like that. No moonballer wins Wimbledon.

2nd: Roddick at least isn't a coward playing defensive all the time, he tries to attack, as bad as he does.

I take this as official admittance from you that Nadal is NOT a moonballer. I mean, you said it yourself. No moonballer wins Wimbledon. :)

I knew you'd eventually come around.

Damn
08-12-2008, 05:05 PM
Stupid thread since it's beginning. This discussion only cares to the people who just can't stand Nadal and can't recognize all that he's been achieving since 2005.

Nadal = Moonballer as Black = White. Crybaby idiocy.

kinglear
08-12-2008, 05:41 PM
Nadal doesn't moon ball. Moon balls are really high lobbing shots. Just because he hits with top spin, doesn't mean he moon balls. A person can hit with lots of spin, but can also hit with some spin so it goes low over the net. Not all top spin goes high over the net. Plus, the whole reason why Nadal's top spin is so dangerous is that his shots travel fast over the net (which true moon balls DO NOT, and when the ball bounces, it bounces high which makes it difficult for his opponents to get the ball back comfortably. :)

MacTheKnife
08-12-2008, 07:19 PM
All tennis players start out with high balls, but as they age they drop considerably. Most of you are to young to understand this, but trust me, you will.
That's about how ridiculous this discussion is. Some people like those with high balls, while others prefer those with lower ones. (Thank God) :worship: I know :topic: but a guys got to have a little fun.

zeleni
08-12-2008, 07:26 PM
There is nothing wrong with moonballers if they moonball good.

groundstroke
08-12-2008, 08:54 PM
Moonballing should be used on clay and on grass/hard court when you're out of position and you want to recover, using it in a match most of the time is absolutely disgusting. Shows you have no skill, no skill to hit a flat shot so you hit a moonball, anyone can moonball.

Sunset of Age
08-12-2008, 09:56 PM
Moonballing should be used on clay and on grass/hard court when you're out of position and you want to recover, using it in a match most of the time is absolutely disgusting. Shows you have no skill, no skill to hit a flat shot so you hit a moonball, anyone can moonball.

So, either you've just proven that Rafa is not a moonballer (a 5-times GS-champion, having no skills and doing what anyone can do? :scratch:) OR that he's so exceptionally good at it that he doesn't even need any other tools or skills to defeat his opponents. :D

You tell me which of both options is the correct one. :p

Clydey
08-12-2008, 11:20 PM
Rafa doesn't moonball. The term has been twisted to encompass anything but flat strokes. A moonball is basically a lob used to buy time, set up a particular shot etc. It is not heavy top spin, no matter what some people on here say. Nadal can hit winners with his heavy top spin. Have you ever in your life heard of a moonball winner? I didn't think so.

I get the feeling that many posters on MTF don't like variety. If a player has a style that a poster doesn't like, that poster will usually invent a term or an argument to disparage them. The most obvious example is Glenn, who despises anything but serve and volley, yet spends a vast chunk of his time on here discussing a sport that no longer exists.

There is no one way to play tennis. There is no wrong way to win a match and there is nothing noble about losing while playing so-called "beautiful tennis". Tennis doesn't award points for aesthetics, though you'd be forgiven for thinking that atp rankings are based on style over substance if you believe the MTF contingent.

groundstroke
08-12-2008, 11:25 PM
Rafa doesn't moonball. The term has been twisted to encompass anything but flat strokes. A moonball is basically a lob used to buy time, set up a particular shot etc. It is not heavy top spin, no matter what some people on here say. Nadal can hit winners with his heavy top spin. Have you ever in your life heard of a moonball winner? I didn't think so.

I get the feeling that many posters on MTF don't like variety. If a player has a style that a poster doesn't like, that poster will usually invent a term or an argument to disparage them. The most obvious example is Glenn, who despises anything but serve and volley, yet spends a vast chunk of his time on here discussing a sport that no longer exists.

There is no one way to play tennis. There is no wrong way to win a match and there is nothing noble about losing while playing so-called "beautiful tennis". Tennis doesn't award points for aesthetics, though you'd be forgiven for thinking that atp rankings are based on style over substance if you believe the MTF contingent.
There is a way to play beautiful tennis. :rolleyes: There is also a way to play beautiful tennis on clay. :rolleyes: There is also a way to play beautiful tennis and win 12 Grand Slams and a few more finals in which the opponent is a disgrace to tennis. That is why people do not like Nadal as much as Federer, his game-style, physically, is disgusting, he just returns the ball back time and time again, mentally, you appraise Nadal for always giving 100% to each point? But when he loses, you feel happy because you know that playing tennis like that, is a fucking disgrace and one day, he will be exhausted and really, that's when aesthetics and game style shows you how different it could have been. Does Federer EVER tire? Nope. Nadal? Always makes references to blisters (Fed 2-6 6-2 6-0 Hamburg 2007)..

Clydey
08-12-2008, 11:32 PM
There is a way to play beautiful tennis. :rolleyes: There is also a way to play beautiful tennis on clay. :rolleyes: There is also a way to play beautiful tennis and win 12 Grand Slams and a few more finals in which the opponent is a disgrace to tennis.

Who says there isn't? I said that there isn't one specific way to play tennis. Agassi didn't play like Federer, McEnroe didn't play like Federer, Courier didn't play like Federer, Sampras didn't play like Federer. You can be successful in a variety of ways. Beauty is subjective. Playing tennis like a ballerina is not necessarily beautiful. Tennis is about being effective. Besides, if Nadal's style was so ugly he wouldn't have as many fans as he does. Can't you accept that you don't enjoy his style, but other people do?

groundstroke
08-12-2008, 11:39 PM
Who says there isn't? I said that there isn't one specific way to play tennis. Agassi didn't play like Federer, McEnroe didn't play like Federer, Courier didn't play like Federer, Sampras didn't play like Federer. You can be successful in a variety of ways. Beauty is subjective. Playing tennis like a ballerina is not necessarily beautiful. Tennis is about being effective. Besides, if Nadal's style was so ugly he wouldn't have as many fans as he does. Can't you accept that you don't enjoy his style, but other people do?
No, who can enjoy his style? Who enjoys the ass-picking (we're not talking about retarded fanboys/fangirls in here)? Who enjoys his disgusting aggressive mindset, it's like he's a bull out there, but when he's getting interviewed he's so nice (don't try telling me this is part of his game style/personality)? Who enjoys those disgusting moonballs? But I can see why people would enjoy his style - it will make you burn out before 25, it makes sure that your legs will snap.
Nadal does have fans, but Federer has more? Why? Because he's a better player, he has a better style and he is why tennis should be watched. Nadal is why tennis should be avoided. You don't want to be watching moonballers, with disgusting grunts and all sorts. You want to watch intelligent tennis, with amazing shots. Not a moron on court that generally makes me happy whenever he loses.

luie
08-12-2008, 11:44 PM
No, who can enjoy his style? Who enjoys the ass-picking (we're not talking about retarded fanboys/fangirls in here)? Who enjoys his disgusting aggressive mindset, it's like he's a bull out there, but when he's getting interviewed he's so nice (don't try telling me this is part of his game style/personality)? Who enjoys those disgusting moonballs? But I can see why people would enjoy his style - it will make you burn out before 25, it makes sure that your legs will snap.
Nadal does have fans, but Federer has more? Why? Because he's a better player, he has a better style and he is why tennis should be watched. Nadal is why tennis should be avoided. You don't want to be watching moonballers, with disgusting grunts and all sorts. You want to watch intelligent tennis, with amazing shots. Not a moron on court that generally makes me happy whenever he loses.
I like watching nadal play BUT only when I have difficulty sleeping.:haha::haha:

Clydey
08-12-2008, 11:51 PM
No, who can enjoy his style? Who enjoys the ass-picking (we're not talking about retarded fanboys/fangirls in here)? Who enjoys his disgusting aggressive mindset, it's like he's a bull out there, but when he's getting interviewed he's so nice (don't try telling me this is part of his game style/personality)? Who enjoys those disgusting moonballs? But I can see why people would enjoy his style - it will make you burn out before 25, it makes sure that your legs will snap.
Nadal does have fans, but Federer has more? Why? Because he's a better player, he has a better style and he is why tennis should be watched. Nadal is why tennis should be avoided. You don't want to be watching moonballers, with disgusting grunts and all sorts. You want to watch intelligent tennis, with amazing shots. Not a moron on court that generally makes me happy whenever he loses.

Who says Federer has more fans? He has been a dominant number 1 and is one of the greatest players ever. He is a crossover star. He does not necessarily have more tennis fans than Nadal. I don't know who has more fans and neither do you.

And no, Federer is not a better player. He was a better player, but he isn't even close to Nadal this season. Rafa has achieved far more than Federer had at the age of 22. Only time will tell who the better player was.

You just don't seem to be getting my point. You keep telling me and everyone else what we want to see on a tennis court, when you are merely projecting what you want to see. I like all varieties of tennis. I like Federer's style, I like Nadal's style, I like Murray's style, I like Safin's style etc. Some styles impress me more than others, but rarely do I come across a style that makes me switch off. You have to accept that different people have different tastes.

groundstroke
08-13-2008, 12:13 AM
Who says Federer has more fans? He has been a dominant number 1 and is one of the greatest players ever. He is a crossover star. He does not necessarily have more tennis fans than Nadal. I don't know who has more fans and neither do you.

And no, Federer is not a better player. He was a better player, but he isn't even close to Nadal this season. Rafa has achieved far more than Federer had at the age of 22. Only time will tell who the better player was.

You just don't seem to be getting my point. You keep telling me and everyone else what we want to see on a tennis court, when you are merely projecting what you want to see. I like all varieties of tennis. I like Federer's style, I like Nadal's style, I like Murray's style, I like Safin's style etc. Some styles impress me more than others, but rarely do I come across a style that makes me switch off. You have to accept that different people have different tastes.
I don't care what you say. If I want to sleep I'll watch Nadal. I don't care about different people different taste, Nadal has a disgusting style, end of.

moon language
08-13-2008, 12:35 AM
I can't believe people actually think Nadal's regular shots are moonballs, lol. Isn't one of the big knocks on Nadal the fact that he consistently hits his balls short around the service line? Kind of throws the whole "moonball" thing out the window, eh? Or do people just not know what moonballs are?

RafaTheBest
08-13-2008, 03:53 AM
No, who can enjoy his style?
I do.

Who enjoys the ass-picking?
I dunno, I'm not one to stare at guys asses so I never even notice it.

Who enjoys his disgusting aggressive mindset, it's like he's a bull out there, but when he's getting interviewed he's so nice?
I do.

Who enjoys those disgusting moonballs?
They aren't moonballs, but those shots that you call "moonballs", I very much enjoy!

Nadal does have fans, but Federer has more.
Um, prove it?

Because he's a better player,
Not according to the rankings coming out Monday.

he has a better style and he is why tennis should be watched.
What gives you the authority to make this assertion>

Nadal is why tennis should be avoided.
Odd, because Nadal is the reason I'm such a huge tennis fan now.

You don't want to be watching moonballers, with disgusting grunts and all sorts.
Yes I do. (But he's not a moonballer BTW)

You want to watch intelligent tennis, with amazing shots. Not a moron on court that generally makes me happy whenever he loses.
I've never heard of a moron who doesn't play intelligent tennis who won 5 GS titles by the age of 22 and was ranked #1 in the world.

...

Just a question...why do you absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Rafa's style may be aesthetically pleasing to some and that it is a very effective style to play? What makes you think that you are the authority on what good tennis is and that everyone else's opinion is wrong?

CmonAussie
08-13-2008, 04:20 AM
I can't believe people actually think Nadal's regular shots are moonballs, lol. Isn't one of the big knocks on Nadal the fact that he consistently hits his balls short around the service line? Kind of throws the whole "moonball" thing out the window, eh? Or do people just not know what moonballs are?

:wavey:
yeah the more i`ve come to appreciate Nadal`s game (esp his rapidly improving one)> the more i`ve come to realise that what he does is not moonballing at all;)

RAFA simply hits some of the most extreme top-spin ever witnessed, & these days he can even flatten out pretty sweetly if the situation requires it:cool:

perhaps i should retitle this thread:confused:

groundstroke
08-13-2008, 04:20 AM
Well then you are clearly blind and delusional (RafaTheBest, hahaha what a name!). His grunting, ass-picking, his extreme gamesmanship, are all disgusting and when he burns out, it will be a good day to tennis. You enjoy moonballs? Okay.
Federer has more fans please don't get me in this.
Nadal will be the best player come 18th August, but that won't last very long. :)
What gives me authority? Hahaha, you sound angry that you think Nadal actually plays tennis.
So I take it if Nadal made you a tennis fan, then you have not seen Borg, Federer, Agassi, Sampras, all those? No, if you haven't, then shut the fuck up, as you clearly know nothing about tennis.
You want to watch men grunt and play boring tennis?
Because that's the way I think. Nadal has such an ugly style to watch I can't even comprehend why people like watching him. He is everything that is wrong with tennis and when he burns out (which he will due to his extremely demanding game style) I will be very happy. He won't even reach 25 or 26 playing superb tennis. It'll be over for him at 24 at most. :)

groundstroke
08-13-2008, 04:21 AM
:wavey:
yeah the more i`ve come to appreciate Nadal`s game (esp his rapidly improving one)> the more i`ve come to realise that what he does is not moonballing at all;)

RAFA simply hits some of the most extreme top-spin ever witnessed, & these days he can even flatten out pretty sweetly if the situation requires it:cool:

perhaps i should retitle this thread:confused:
I've never seen him hit a flat forehand winner, tried it once against Tsonga this year I think and he failed miserably.

Bernard Black
08-13-2008, 09:19 AM
:wavey:
yeah the more i`ve come to appreciate Nadal`s game (esp his rapidly improving one)> the more i`ve come to realise that what he does is not moonballing at all;)

RAFA simply hits some of the most extreme top-spin ever witnessed, & these days he can even flatten out pretty sweetly if the situation requires it:cool:

perhaps i should retitle this thread:confused:

No need to retitle the thread, Nadal is the greatest moonballer of all time.

As for Nadal hitting flat forehands, it simply isn't possible with the extreme grip he uses. Re-watch the Wimbledon final and compare Nadal's forehand with Federer's, Federer was hitting flat winners all over the place. Nadal can't do this, but he can still achieve winners because his heavy topspin picks up so much pace after the bounce and of course he can achieve a ridiculous angle out to the right hander's backhand.

~*BGT*~
08-13-2008, 09:29 AM
groundstroke, people like different styles and different kinds of players. Just because you don't like Nadal, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with someone who does enjoy his game.

Bazooka
08-13-2008, 09:31 AM
Guys, for how many pages you will try to make a hater like groundstroke to enjoy Nadal's game?

Enough! Go watch how he bagels Andreev.

~*BGT*~
08-13-2008, 09:41 AM
Guys, for how many pages you will try to make a hater like groundstroke to enjoy Nadal's game?

Enough! Go watch how he bagels Andreev.

No matter how many pictures I see or how many times I hear it, I'm never going to think that Maria Sharapova is hot. She's just not very attractive to me. :shrug: But I'm not going to blast someone and say they have no understanding about what is attractive in women because they do like her. That's just retarded. :rolleyes:

Bazooka
08-13-2008, 09:51 AM
No matter how many pictures I see or how many times I hear it, I'm never going to think that Maria Sharapova is hot. She's just not very attractive to me. :shrug: But I'm not going to blast someone and say they have no understanding about what is attractive in women because they do like her. That's just retarded. :rolleyes:

Because you are not a hater! stop wasting energy on him.

~*BGT*~
08-13-2008, 09:57 AM
Because you are not a hater! stop wasting energy on him.

Don't worry. That was my only reply in this thread. :)

scarecrows
08-13-2008, 01:14 PM
nothing wrong with being a moonballer, I am a moonballer
but I'd pay money to be able to hit more flat shots

Art&Soul
08-13-2008, 01:38 PM
Um, prove it?




ATP fan favorite award, MTF favorite player, Chinese favorite player...Federer is always way above Nadal so just accept it ;)

RafaTheBest
08-13-2008, 02:35 PM
groundstroke, people like different styles and different kinds of players. Just because you don't like Nadal, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with someone who does enjoy his game.

Great post! :worship:

No point in arguing with someone who is so blinded by his hate by Nadal (what, did he kick his dog or somehing?) that they can't have an intelligent discussion. That, and the fact that he doesn't even know the difference between a topspin shot and a moonball.

Rafa = Fed Killa
08-13-2008, 02:38 PM
nothing wrong with being a moonballer, I am a moonballer
but I'd pay money to be able to hit more flat shots

So you would pay money to be an idiot ball basher like Birdshit.

Why?

Angles, intelligence and spin are better than brainlesss flat ball bashing.

scarecrows
08-13-2008, 03:01 PM
So you would pay money to be an idiot ball basher like Birdshit.

Why?

Angles, intelligence and spin are better than brainlesss flat ball bashing.

so, more flat shots than a moonball means ballbashing?

dude, I know your tennis knowledge is as big as squirrel's but at least try not to show it

The_Nadal_effect
08-13-2008, 03:51 PM
People despise Nadal's erstwhile style of play-- conversion of tennis into badminton-- rightly, IMO. I personally don't want Rafa to just WIN tournaments throught sheer firepower (he has plenty, no doubt; but there are aesthetics to winning the game as well). I enjoyed his Wimbledon victory because he was sharper and agressive and flattening his forehand topspins very well--his match against Murray being a beautiful example of that. He is in essence a grinder, but watching him adapt and employ new variety in his play and strategy this year has been very exciting for me as a fan.

C,mon Rafa: Lessen the moonballs, skim the net and the lines more! :devil:

Ilovetheblues_86
08-14-2008, 12:17 AM
Flat balls, as Scarecrows almost implied, are better than moonballs, so the biggest dream of the moonballer amateur or the not pro is to have more flat shots.
I f nadal had more flat shots he would already have won US open, but he didn´t.
So, yeah, moonballing can make you a champion in clay courts mostly and eventually you can raise your game based upont it like Nadal, but to say that moonball is better than have some flat shots is insane.
Why flat shots are better than moonball? Because a very good flat player can win in almost every court, from clay ato grass and indoors, and a moonballer will have problems nowadays mainly on indoor and hard court (since the grass is not the same).

luie
08-14-2008, 12:57 AM
Nothing wrong with being a moonballer /pusher etc. If its the extent of your abilities.
Nadal should be proud he made the most use out of his very LIMITED game.
Sure he is paying a price lately with his knees,ankles,fatigue & now he is balding,but one-cannot have his cake & eat-it too.So hats off to MR.NADAL the greatest MOONBALLER ever.

Clydey
08-14-2008, 01:00 AM
Nothing wrong with being a moonballer /pusher etc. If its the extent of your abilities.
Nadal should be proud he made the most use out of his very LIMITED game.
Sure he is paying a price lately with his knees,ankles,fatigue & now he is balding,but one-cannot have his cake & eat-it too.So hats off to MR.NADAL the greatest MOONBALLER ever.

The part about him balding cracked me up. I don't think male pattern baldness is a result of being a pusher or using heavy top spin.

luie
08-14-2008, 01:05 AM
The part about him balding cracked me up. I don't think male pattern baldness is a result of being a pusher or using heavy top spin.
Sorry I was trying to get a good shot in before he takes GOLD.:devil:

GlennMirnyi
08-14-2008, 01:09 AM
Flat balls, as Scarecrows almost implied, are better than moonballs, so the biggest dream of the moonballer amateur or the not pro is to have more flat shots.
I f nadal had more flat shots he would already have won US open, but he didn´t.
So, yeah, moonballing can make you a champion in clay courts mostly and eventually you can raise your game based upont it like Nadal, but to say that moonball is better than have some flat shots is insane.
Why flat shots are better than moonball? Because a very good flat player can win in almost every court, from clay ato grass and indoors, and a moonballer will have problems nowadays mainly on indoor and hard court (since the grass is not the same).

Moonballing is anti-tennis. It`s the weapon of clowns who have no technique. That`s why it`s pathetic. Only a moron would prefer to be a moonballer being talented enough to have flat, penetrating shots.

RafaTheBest
08-14-2008, 01:49 AM
Moonballing is anti-tennis. It`s the weapon of clowns who have no technique. That`s why it`s pathetic. Only a moron would prefer to be a moonballer being talented enough to have flat, penetrating shots.

No, actually, only a moron wouldn't know the difference between a good topspin shot and a moonball.

~*BGT*~
08-14-2008, 01:52 AM
No, actually, only a moron wouldn't know the difference between a good topspin shot and a moonball.

Keep going! This is hilarious. :lol: Come one Glenn, what's your next shot? :p:p:p

RafaTheBest
08-14-2008, 02:04 AM
Keep going! This is hilarious. :lol: Come one Glenn, what's your next shot? :p:p:p

What can I say? Morons such as GM make it too easy! It's like shooting fish in a bucket!

~*BGT*~
08-14-2008, 03:15 AM
What can I say? Morons such as GM make it too easy! It's like shooting fish in a bucket!

Actually, there was an episode of Mythbusters that tried that experiment. It was virtually impossible to shoot the fish because the light reflecting off the fish was refracted by the water, causing them to aim at something that wasn't there. :)

finishingmove
08-14-2008, 03:21 AM
moonballing to the backhand on the WTA tour is common practice as it can save your ass in 100% cases, and occasionally give u a free point.

and we're talking about lunar moonballs there.

GlennMirnyi
08-14-2008, 03:52 AM
No, actually, only a moron wouldn't know the difference between a good topspin shot and a moonball.

Exactly: you.

Mathieu = topspin.
Nadull = moonball.

:wavey:

RafaTheBest
08-14-2008, 04:38 AM
Exactly: you.

Mathieu = topspin.
Nadull = moonball.

:wavey:

You said earlier in this thread that a moonballer will never win Wimbledon. Rafa did win Wimbledon, so according to you he's not a moonballer. My how you contradict yourself!

Forehander
08-14-2008, 05:16 AM
Talent is DEFINITELY required for Nadal's type moonballing forehand full stop.

RafaTheBest
08-14-2008, 06:07 AM
You said earlier in this thread that a moonballer will never win Wimbledon. Rafa did win Wimbledon, so according to you he's not a moonballer. My how you contradict yourself!

Still waiting on a reply. Not so clever when someone calls you out on a contradiction are you?

So answer me, if a moonballer will never win Wimbledon, as you so clearly stated, would that not mean Nadal is not a moonballer? You said it yourself!

Ilovetheblues_86
08-14-2008, 09:06 AM
Man, you have 18, chill out, do you even play tennis to understand some of the points here.
Don´t you see that Tennis is dead since this august and we are watching spiritual points? :sad:
The sport is not more Tennis is slow tennis.:rolleyes:
C´mon Glenn :worship:

Henry Kaspar
08-14-2008, 02:15 PM
Could someone create an own forum for GlennMyrni and RafaTheBest please. This childish tit-for-tat is tiring; I doubt the vast majority of posters has the slightest interest in this. In my personal opinion, calling Nadal talentless is just dumb, but jumping around like an enraged chicken as a result is at least as dumb.

What bugs me in particular is that MY thread -- that gave rise to interesting discussions otherwise -- got locked because of you toddlers, even though the opening post did not even contain the word "Nadal". Hence, your sandbox skirmish is not your private business, you spoil this place for others. And, yes, I mean BOTH of you, in absolutely equal measure.

:mad:

Thank you.

RafaTheBest
08-14-2008, 02:33 PM
Could someone create an own forum for GlennMyrni and RafaTheBest please. This childish tit-for-tat is tiring; I doubt the vast majority of posters has the slightest interest in this. In my personal opinion, calling Nadal talentless is just dumb, but jumping around like an enraged chicken as a result is at least as dumb.

What bugs me in particular is that MY thread -- that gave rise to interesting discussions otherwise -- got locked because of you toddlers, even though the opening post did not even contain the word "Nadal". Hence, your sandbox skirmish is not your private business, you spoil this place for others. And, yes, I mean BOTH of you, in absolutely equal measure.

:mad:

Thank you.

:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

Boo-hoo!

leng jai
08-14-2008, 11:54 PM
:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

Boo-hoo!

You're one of the worst rafatards in this joint. Well done.

RafaTheBest
08-15-2008, 12:25 AM
You're one of the worst rafatards in this joint. Well done.

Oh no, I'm one of the worst posters on an internet message board. How will I ever survive? God you guys are so sensitive! :lol:

groundstroke
08-16-2008, 10:59 PM
So you would pay money to be an idiot ball basher like Birdshit.

Why?

Angles, intelligence and spin are better than brainlesss flat ball bashing.
If you hit an angled backhand/forehand shot with topspin (like Federer does with his forehand to the opponent's backhand on hard court) with a lot of topspin they are out of court, but at the same time, anyone with remotely good flat shots like Federer, Djokovic, Blake, etc, will always crush a moonballer/topspin shots because they can hit on the rise.

Hitting flat does not mean ball bashing. Hitting flat on a hard court = win.

PiggyGotRoasted
08-16-2008, 11:03 PM
Moonballing is only bad if nadal does it

Bascule
08-17-2008, 12:33 AM
Could someone create an own forum for GlennMyrni and RafaTheBest please. This childish tit-for-tat is tiring; I doubt the vast majority of posters has the slightest interest in this. In my personal opinion, calling Nadal talentless is just dumb, but jumping around like an enraged chicken as a result is at least as dumb.

What bugs me in particular is that MY thread -- that gave rise to interesting discussions otherwise -- got locked because of you toddlers, even though the opening post did not even contain the word "Nadal". Hence, your sandbox skirmish is not your private business, you spoil this place for others. And, yes, I mean BOTH of you, in absolutely equal measure.

:mad:

Thank you.
:lol:

Hitting flat does not mean ball bashing. Hitting flat on a hard court = win.
Agree.

DhammaTiger
08-17-2008, 12:49 AM
Could someone create an own forum for GlennMyrni and RafaTheBest please. This childish tit-for-tat is tiring; I doubt the vast majority of posters has the slightest interest in this. In my personal opinion, calling Nadal talentless is just dumb, but jumping around like an enraged chicken as a result is at least as dumb.

What bugs me in particular is that MY thread -- that gave rise to interesting discussions otherwise -- got locked because of you toddlers, even though the opening post did not even contain the word "Nadal". Hence, your sandbox skirmish is not your private business, you spoil this place for others. And, yes, I mean BOTH of you, in absolutely equal measure.

:mad:

Thank you.

Great post and good suggestion :yeah:

Jogy
08-17-2008, 03:09 AM
GlennMirnyi would like to moonball that good and have some of the 100 miles per hour winners like Nadal does it :p

RafaTheBest
08-17-2008, 03:35 AM
GlennMirnyi would like to moonball that good and have some of the 100 miles per hour winners like Nadal does it :p

Something tells me that GM gets his ass kicked by moonballers on a regular basis and he comes in this forum to take it out on us! :haha:

leng jai
08-17-2008, 05:08 AM
Oh no, I'm one of the worst posters on an internet message board. How will I ever survive? God you guys are so sensitive! :lol:

Yeah I'm sensitive to mental retardation. Maybe thats why your posts annoy me.

RafaTheBest
08-17-2008, 06:28 AM
Yeah I'm sensitive to mental retardation. Maybe thats why your posts annoy me.

:lol: I am happy to annoy you!

A_Skywalker
08-17-2008, 07:43 AM
GlennMirnyi would like to moonball that good and have some of the 100 miles per hour winners like Nadal does it :p

He can't, he uses 50% of his time to write nonesense in MTF. Look how much posts he has and he wrote something smart in about 20 posts.

sennoc
08-17-2008, 07:50 AM
What's wrong with a moonballer? That's easy. The main idea in sport is that YOU should WIN the match. The strategy where you wait till the opponent loose should be used in wars.

RafaTheBest
08-17-2008, 07:56 AM
What's wrong with a moonballer? That's easy. The main idea in sport is that YOU should WIN the match. The strategy where you wait till the opponent loose should be used in wars.

Who are you to determine how someone should go about winning tennis matches. If moonaballing gives someone the best chance to win, more power to them.

BTW, Nadal is not a moonballer. The stupidity of people who think that amazes me.

groundstroke
08-17-2008, 08:00 AM
What's wrong with a moonballer? That's easy. The main idea in sport is that YOU should WIN the match. The strategy where you wait till the opponent loose should be used in wars.
Nadal doesn't consider tennis as a sport, neither do all the other moonballers, they just want to make everyone disgusted with their awful game-styles.

RafaTheBest
08-17-2008, 08:15 AM
Nadal doesn't consider tennis as a sport, neither do all the other moonballers, they just want to make everyone disgusted with their awful game-styles.

:bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

sennoc
08-17-2008, 12:47 PM
Who are you to determine how someone should go about winning tennis matches.

A more mature man than you? What's funny in Wimbledon matches Federer vs Nadal, where 90% of Nadal's balls go on Federer's backhand and there are 2-3 volleys per SET on GRASS???

Man, you probably are just a fan, so you can think what you want. I tell you something as a player.

I play against tennis wall. Since a few decades. My stupid tennis wall "won" every ball I played. Every.

And you know, what?

I still don't admire tennis walls.

Modetopia
08-17-2008, 01:30 PM
bad? or mad?:p

Damn
08-17-2008, 05:04 PM
Moonballing is only bad if nadal does it

Expected. This is the comment I was waiting for.

With this :retard: :retard: :retard: answer this thread should be closed for once and for all. It can't go lowest, but I'm afraid it can, this is MTF.

PiggyGotRoasted
08-17-2008, 05:05 PM
Expected. This is the comment I was waiting for.

With this :retarded: :retarded: :retarded: answer this thread should be closed for once and for all. It can't be lowest, but I'm afraid it can, this is MTF.

I love winding you up :cool:

You always bite, every time :)

Damn
08-17-2008, 05:09 PM
I love winding you up :cool:

Good for you, great entertainment.

~*BGT*~
08-17-2008, 05:45 PM
Nadal doesn't consider tennis as a sport, neither do all the other moonballers, they just want to make everyone disgusted with their awful game-styles.

A more mature man than you? What's funny in Wimbledon matches Federer vs Nadal, where 90% of Nadal's balls go on Federer's backhand and there are 2-3 volleys per SET on GRASS???

Man, you probably are just a fan, so you can think what you want. I tell you something as a player.

I play against tennis wall. Since a few decades. My stupid tennis wall "won" every ball I played. Every.

And you know, what?

I still don't admire tennis walls.

You aren't everyone. ;)

CmonAussie
02-02-2009, 12:32 PM
...
***
even though its used as a derogatory term by many on MTF, its obvious that whatever you call Nadal`s play style its very effective & impressive [6 slams on 3 surfaces, #1 & Olympic Gold]. nothing more to prove!

Crazy Girl
02-05-2009, 09:30 PM
Thread: What's so bad about......
being a MOONBALLER!!!!

meihaditalab
02-05-2009, 10:29 PM
clearly the way Rafa hits the ball which is known as a top spin shot is different then moonballing... and most people that call Rafa's shots moonballs are Fed fans, cause they don't have anything else to criticize Nadal about. Plus their jealous he's done more then what Fed had done at the age of 22 and that Rafa has won there last 3 meetings in head to head in GS finals.

r3d_d3v1l_
02-05-2009, 11:18 PM
It doesn´t matter if it is moonballer or not, Nadal´s tennis is still boring to watch.

GlennMirnyi
02-05-2009, 11:33 PM
Moonballing is only bad if nadal does it

It's always bad.

GlennMirnyi would like to moonball that good and have some of the 100 miles per hour winners like Nadal does it :p

Should I answer to a Nazi?

...
***
even though its used as a derogatory term by many on MTF, its obvious that whatever you call Nadal`s play style its very effective & impressive [6 slams on 3 surfaces, #1 & Olympic Gold]. nothing more to prove!

Only because they've changed the courts and the balls to benefit him and other moonballers.

Johnny Groove
02-05-2009, 11:38 PM
They should have a separate tour for any player considered to be a moonballer

Glenn can be the head of the rating committee

CmonAussie
02-05-2009, 11:39 PM
It doesn´t matter if it is moonballer or not, Nadal´s tennis is still boring to watch.


:rolleyes:
Would you rather watch Sampras 2nd ace his arse off against Pioline @ Wimby/USO finals>> or "boring" Nadal spin/guts his way to 5-set thrilling wins in the Wimby/AO finals:confused:

GlennMirnyi
02-05-2009, 11:44 PM
:rolleyes:
Would you rather watch Sampras 2nd ace his arse off against Pioline @ Wimby/USO finals>> or "boring" Nadal spin/guts his way to 5-set thrilling wins in the Wimby/AO finals:confused:

What a question...

Nobody wants to watch boring 5-set moonballing contests where a player loses the match before it began.

A_Skywalker
02-05-2009, 11:47 PM
Glennmirniy you are the best, I hope you continue to write here 100 post per day until 2020 at least :lol: Always a pleasure reading your posts.

GlennMirnyi
02-05-2009, 11:51 PM
:lol:

You can't even write my name decently. Try again next time.

Montego
02-05-2009, 11:54 PM
What a question...

Nobody wants to watch boring 5-set moonballing contests where a player loses the match before it began.


Yes, nobody.

A_Skywalker
02-05-2009, 11:57 PM
:lol:

You can't even write my name decently. Try again next time.

I didnt know your name is Glenn Mirniy. Oh well, its a good name. Little strange for brazilian,no?
I love to chat with you but I will go to sleep. Take care of MTF good :)

TankingTheSet
02-06-2009, 12:03 AM
I do find Nadal's game ugly in esthetic terms. It's like he entrenches himself into a bunker, dodges a barrage of shots and then throws a grenade to win the point. He does hit some great shots, but his basic approach to a rally is very monotonous and you could say chicken-like. The success of his game style is in a certain way a "fluke" created by a chance combination of equipment and court characteristics that makes a monotonous robot-like playing style like his one very succesful.

Maybe you can draw a comparison with other sports where ugly but effective new playing tactics were succesfully introduced. I can think of table tennis, although a long time ago and a minor sport, some Chinese guys started using an extreme upside-down inside-out like grip with very defensive tactics, which was very ugly but effective.

mashamaniac
02-06-2009, 12:16 AM
Too much hate about rafa on here ...

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 12:22 AM
I didnt know your name is Glenn Mirniy. Oh well, its a good name. Little strange for brazilian,no?
I love to chat with you but I will go to sleep. Take care of MTF good :)

Are you ever awake, watching so many Nadull matches?

I do find Nadal's game ugly in esthetic terms. It's like he entrenches himself into a bunker, dodges a barrage of shots and then throws a grenade to win the point. He does hit some great shots, but his basic approach to a rally is very monotonous and you could say chicken-like. The success of his game style is in a certain way a "fluke" created by a chance combination of equipment and court characteristics that makes a monotonous robot-like playing style like his one very succesful.

Maybe you can draw a comparison with other sports where ugly but effective new playing tactics were succesfully introduced. I can think of table tennis, although a long time ago and a minor sport, some Chinese guys started using an extreme upside-down inside-out like grip with very defensive tactics, which was very ugly but effective.

Agreed.

ChinoRios4Ever
02-06-2009, 12:27 AM
Too much hate about rafa on here ...

Welcome to MTF. :wavey: Ignore them man.

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 12:28 AM
I do find Nadal's game ugly in esthetic terms. It's like he entrenches himself into a bunker, dodges a barrage of shots and then throws a grenade to win the point. He does hit some great shots, but his basic approach to a rally is very monotonous and you could say chicken-like. The success of his game style is in a certain way a "fluke" created by a chance combination of equipment and court characteristics that makes a monotonous robot-like playing style like his one very succesful.

Maybe you can draw a comparison with other sports where ugly but effective new playing tactics were succesfully introduced. I can think of table tennis, although a long time ago and a minor sport, some Chinese guys started using an extreme upside-down inside-out like grip with very defensive tactics, which was very ugly but effective.

yeah... not a bad appraisal here...

his image, success and likeable (for some, not others) demeanor on and off court have blinded the simple, passing armchair sports fans and groupies (tards) who can forgive a style of play, and, infact, embrace it for they have no real f***ing idea...

with that said, i was pretty impressed with the way that nadal disposed of his first 5 rounds in the Aussie Open... i mean, wankers were saying that 'oh yeah... nadal... how is he gonna pull up after the semi with verdasco, you know... 5 sets' and this, that and the other... and all this random bullsh!t... but, truth is, no f**ker pushed him till verdasco grew a d**k overnight...

the rest of the tour need to tax this f**ker in the early rounds... collectively... there must be an effort... if i was running the french open i would demote andy murray's seeding to 27 or sum sh!t in that hope that some tough as nails f**ker has a chance to do some damage to this brick wall with legs... either that or he can take out fed in rd 3 guga style, just so we can get over the tears by round 4... its bullshit watching rochus do f**k all in round 1... i'm not fooled by this p!ss poor mug era sh!te... f*** it... tournament organisers have got to get their sh!t together quickish... hewitt and ferrero are dangerous floaters and are asking to be rigged out for rd 1 and rd 2 showdown consecutively all season long... they really need to grind this f**kers knee cap down to a bit of sausage mince... its all about the early rounds people...

mashamaniac
02-06-2009, 12:31 AM
Welcome to MTF. :wavey: Ignore them man.

:worship:

luie
02-06-2009, 12:36 AM
yeah... not a bad appraisal here...

his image, success and likeable (for some, not others) demeanor on and off court have blinded the simple, passing armchair sports fans and groupies (tards) who can forgive a style of play, and, infact, embrace it for they have no real f***ing idea...

with that said, i was pretty impressed with the way that nadal disposed of his first 5 rounds in the Aussie Open... i mean, wankers were saying that 'oh yeah... nadal... how is he gonna pull up after the semi with verdasco, you know... 5 sets' and this, that and the other... and all this random bullsh!t... but, truth is, no f**ker pushed him till verdasco grew a d**k overnight...

the rest of the tour need to tax this f**ker in the early rounds... collectively... there must be an effort... if i was running the french open i would demote andy murray's seeding to 27 or sum sh!t in that hope that some tough as nails f**ker has a chance to do some damage to this brick wall with legs... either that or he can take out fed in rd 3 guga style, just so we can get over the tears by round 4... its bullshit watching rochus do f**k all in round 1... i'm not fooled by this p!ss poor mug era sh!te... f*** it... tournament organisers have got to get their sh!t together quickish... hewitt and ferrero are dangerous floaters and are asking to be rigged out for rd 1 and rd 2 showdown consecutively all season long... they really need to grind this f**kers knee cap down to a bit of sausage mince... its all about the early rounds people...
True the battle was lost early on when these no-bodies couldn't take a set off him.Haas & simon should have done more.:o However I'am not totally hating on rafa he showed great spirit & fight.

mashamaniac
02-06-2009, 12:39 AM
True the battle was lost early on when these no-bodies couldn't take a set off him.Haas & simon should have done more.:o However I'am not totally hating on rafa he showed great spirit & fight.

That's good to know you're not totally hating him unlike many posters here :sad:

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 12:46 AM
That's good to know you're not totally hating him unlike many posters here :sad:

i hope you dont think i am a hater... far from it... i am actually a lover of the game... a protector if you like...

nadal has 6 grand slams already... surely it is wrong for nadal to pass the likes of becker and edberg...? surely it is a crime against the history, the very fabric of the sport...?

r3d_d3v1l_
02-06-2009, 12:50 AM
:rolleyes:
Would you rather watch Sampras 2nd ace his arse off against Pioline @ Wimby/USO finals>> or "boring" Nadal spin/guts his way to 5-set thrilling wins in the Wimby/AO finals:confused:

I was too young to see the Sampras/Pioline Pinal :sad:

Long matches don´t mean quality matches. The AO final wasn´t that great, it had some great moments but nothing more than that.


Too much hate about rafa on here ...

I do not hate Rafa, i only don´t like his tennis.

mashamaniac
02-06-2009, 12:58 AM
i hope you dont think i am a hater... far from it... i am actually a lover of the game... a protector if you like...

nadal has 6 grand slams already... surely it is wrong for nadal to pass the likes of becker and edberg...? surely it is a crime against the history, the very fabric of the sport...?

I don't think so... nadal has given so many great things to tennis that even fed hasn't! ;) i'll ask you a question hoping to hear the honest answer:
Do you think tennis would have been as exciting as now IF there was no nadal?? i mean it surely would have been lopsided as hell with fed beating the crap out of every other single player without shadow of a doubt... :eek::wavey:

mashamaniac
02-06-2009, 01:00 AM
I was too young to see the Sampras/Pioline Pinal :sad:

Long matches don´t mean quality matches. The AO final wasn´t that great, it had some great moments but nothing more than that.
I do not hate Rafa, i only don´t like his tennis.

I'm sure there are many ppl who don't like his tennis but at least respect the way he's dominating men's tennis ATM... wish everyone were like this !!! :sad:

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 01:02 AM
yeah... not a bad appraisal here...

his image, success and likeable (for some, not others) demeanor on and off court have blinded the simple, passing armchair sports fans and groupies (tards) who can forgive a style of play, and, infact, embrace it for they have no real f***ing idea...

with that said, i was pretty impressed with the way that nadal disposed of his first 5 rounds in the Aussie Open... i mean, wankers were saying that 'oh yeah... nadal... how is he gonna pull up after the semi with verdasco, you know... 5 sets' and this, that and the other... and all this random bullsh!t... but, truth is, no f**ker pushed him till verdasco grew a d**k overnight...

the rest of the tour need to tax this f**ker in the early rounds... collectively... there must be an effort... if i was running the french open i would demote andy murray's seeding to 27 or sum sh!t in that hope that some tough as nails f**ker has a chance to do some damage to this brick wall with legs... either that or he can take out fed in rd 3 guga style, just so we can get over the tears by round 4... its bullshit watching rochus do f**k all in round 1... i'm not fooled by this p!ss poor mug era sh!te... f*** it... tournament organisers have got to get their sh!t together quickish... hewitt and ferrero are dangerous floaters and are asking to be rigged out for rd 1 and rd 2 showdown consecutively all season long... they really need to grind this f**kers knee cap down to a bit of sausage mince... its all about the early rounds people...

:worship:

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 01:18 AM
I don't think so... nadal has given so many great things to tennis that even fed hasn't! ;) i'll ask you a question hoping to hear the honest answer:
Do you think tennis would have been as exciting as now IF there was no nadal?? i mean it surely would have been lopsided as hell with fed beating the crap out of every other single player without shadow of a doubt... :eek::wavey:

i will give you this:

there had to be something to stop fed cranking up the bullsh!t with all those records... for sure.. there had to be an antidote for this ... every poor bastard falling over themselves to say how beautiful fed looked every time he waltzed his way to victory... and yeah, heh heh, the deeper irony lay in the fact that the 'cure' arrived in the form of a sickness... nadal... it had to be this way, i do see it clearly... i am not blinded by hate... i feel nadal has his place... but, he was only meant to stop fed from winning the french and provide us, the public, with the pure viewing pleasure of watching federer going about the end of his days as a player in some sort of lendl-like obsessive mode in his attempt to collect a real triumph on dirt... but.. for some f**ked reason... his knees havent given up yet... you can bet your bottom dollar that at the same time nadal is looking at his trophies, he is also looking at the long road ahead of him thinking... 'hmm... f**k ... so this is what i gotta do..? better make a call for a shorter season...'

the systematic slowing down of the surfaces that allows him the supreme success of running every ball down and making him #1, is the same system that will break him... in order to make the game more watchable in each city nadal arrives in, the courts are made slower... naturally, they want their big draw going deep...

and somewhere... deep down, nadal's own knees are saying: 'oh yeah... i wish we had some shorter points...'

a victim of his own success...

beautiful no...?

CmonAussie
02-06-2009, 01:36 AM
i will give you this:

there had to be something to stop fed cranking up the bullsh!t with all those records... for sure.. there had to be an antidote for this ... every poor bastard falling over themselves to say how beautiful fed looked every time he waltzed his way to victory... and yeah, heh heh, the deeper irony lay in the fact that the 'cure' arrived in the form of a sickness... nadal... it had to be this way, i do see it clearly... i am not blinded by hate... i feel nadal has his place... but, he was only meant to stop fed from winning the french and provide us, the public, with the pure viewing pleasure of watching federer going about the end of his days as a player in some sort of lendl-like obsessive mode in his attempt to collect a real triumph on dirt... but.. for some f**ked reason... his knees havent given up yet... you can bet your bottom dollar that at the same time nadal is looking at his trophies, he is also looking at the long road ahead of him thinking... 'hmm... f**k ... so this is what i gotta do..? better make a call for a shorter season...'

the systematic slowing down of the surfaces that allows him the supreme success of running every ball down and making him #1, is the same system that will break him... in order to make the game more watchable in each city nadal arrives in, the courts are made slower... naturally, they want their big draw going deep...

and somewhere... deep down, nadal's own knees are saying: 'oh yeah... i wish we had some shorter points...'

a victim of his own success...

beautiful no...?

<>
interesting post, though i do detect your subconscious hate of Nadal:(
it might be true that Rafa is doing serious long-term damage to his knees, but its not all to do with playing style~ Nadal is naturally built like a stocky soccer player, so his body is ideal for the natural surfaces [clay & grass]. whereas hardcourts will surely be doing serious damage:sad: Back in the 1960s & 70s when tennis was almost exclusively played on natural surfaces its possible that Nadal would have been even more successful, or atleast enjoyed a longer career! yes wooden rackets would have been tough for him, but he would have adapted, just like Fed would have needed to do;)

Guy Haines
02-06-2009, 01:44 AM
i will give you this:

there had to be something to stop fed cranking up the bullsh!t with all those records... for sure.. there had to be an antidote for this ... every poor bastard falling over themselves to say how beautiful fed looked every time he waltzed his way to victory... and yeah, heh heh, the deeper irony lay in the fact that the 'cure' arrived in the form of a sickness... nadal... it had to be this way, i do see it clearly... i am not blinded by hate... i feel nadal has his place... but, he was only meant to stop fed from winning the french and provide us, the public, with the pure viewing pleasure of watching federer going about the end of his days as a player in some sort of lendl-like obsessive mode in his attempt to collect a real triumph on dirt... but.. for some f**ked reason... his knees havent given up yet... you can bet your bottom dollar that at the same time nadal is looking at his trophies, he is also looking at the long road ahead of him thinking... 'hmm... f**k ... so this is what i gotta do..? better make a call for a shorter season...'

the systematic slowing down of the surfaces that allows him the supreme success of running every ball down and making him #1, is the same system that will break him... in order to make the game more watchable in each city nadal arrives in, the courts are made slower... naturally, they want their big draw going deep...

and somewhere... deep down, nadal's own knees are saying: 'oh yeah... i wish we had some shorter points...'

a victim of his own success...

beautiful no...?

fast_clay you're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist -- an extremely unhappy one. :shrug:

Love the writing style, but you seem really invested in not enjoying tennis, above all else. If you think the machinations and transformation of tennis is so bad on the men's side, take a look at the women's, where the ball ISN'T kept in play for more than 3 shots right now. I know the WTA is seen as some sub-Dante pit of hell around here, but maybe its quick-strike nature (however inept in the worst moments) is closer to the tennis Glenn is looking for than the ATP. Or at least was when Momo and Henin were the top 2. That was some beautiful retro volley-centric shit.

I dunno, the other thing is that you seem in denial about the changes in Nadal's game. Against the kind of players that occupy the first 3 rounds of majors, he now possesses the game to smack them down in 2-3 shots each point. He didn't even less than a year ago. Remember Alun Jones? :drink: Things are still potentially rough for him on hard courts once you get into the final 8 or 16 though -- that's where he could be ground down, especially as each season progresses.

wilmar
02-06-2009, 01:46 AM
There's nothing bad about being a moonballer.

There's nothing wrong about being a moonballer.

I myself prefer it to the "blink-and-you-miss-it" serve-n-volley game. Imagine watching a match between Karlovic and Mirnyi (not Glenn but Max) that is nothing but an ace slugfest. zzzzzz......

Of course, I wouldn't hold it against any tennis fan who prefers that kind of game. That's what makes tennis varied and exciting.

And here's my argument against Nadal's "ugly" game. Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. Effortless grace can be beautiful. So can brute strength and pure grit. After all, we are talking about the Sports and not the Arts. There has to be the elements of strength, fitness and stamina factored in.

Tennis, as with the human race, cannot avoid evolution. If the human race can naturally evolve from an amoeba to different individuals like me, you or GlennMirnyi, tennis can surely evolve to the different styles of Nadal, Federer or Stepanek. How boring life and tennis would be if there are nothing but clones.

Resist the change, you'll just stay the same.
Don't move forward with the times, you'll just be left behind.

To the traditionalists/conservatives, what does it say about having a so-called one "correct" or "right" way to play when the "classically-trained" Federer who has no answers to solve the puzzle of the "unorthodox" game of Nadal?

Furthermore, Nadal has to be doing something right in his style of play to get the results (6 Slams + World #1).

As for his knees not holding up etc, we'll leave Nadal and his team to worry about that.

At least, even his tennis flame may not burn as long as someone like Agassi, he has already, and will continue to make sure his will burn as brightly as he can during his time, however shorter it may be.

And for those tennis "historians" who fear for the future of tennis of Nadal clones, fear not I say. Nadal, like Borg, is a special case, and comes only once in a blue moon. Youngsters can model themselves after Nadal's game, but will only achieve varying success.

Nadal is a natural right-handed athlete who plays left.
Nadal's family/coaching environment differs from everyone else.
Styles and strokes can be imitated, but mental grit, passion and determination cannot be replicated.

One Nadal is already too hot to handle for GM, we wouldn't want more "clones" to terrorise him in this lifetime. Or he may end up preferring the simple life of an amoeba.

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 02:00 AM
<>
interesting post, though i do detect your subconscious hate of Nadal:(
it might be true that Rafa is doing serious long-term damage to his knees, but its not all to do with playing style~ Nadal is naturally built like a stocky soccer player, so his body is ideal for the natural surfaces [clay & grass]. whereas hardcourts will surely be doing serious damage:sad: Back in the 1960s & 70s when tennis was almost exclusively played on natural surfaces its possible that Nadal would have been even more successful, or atleast enjoyed a longer career! yes wooden rackets would have been tough for him, but he would have adapted, just like Fed would have needed to do;)

yeah... i like to keep things simple... nadal is an advance on borg... it's all subjective tho, i feel he would've have found a way with wooden racquets, perhaps without the success, perhaps more... who knows...?

the lucky thing for world tennis as compared to a few years back: there are now some real players ready to step up and take the mantle when nadal's body can take no more... two of the heir apparents, tsonga and murray, had to redouble their efforts in maintaining their body once it was obvious what level was expected if they also wished to play all year...

(as a side not cmonaussie, just before the Slams went 'Open'... they allowed the reigning amatuer french open champion to play in the pro-equivalent The French Pro... he lost badly in straight sets in the first round... not a match of a kind calibre at all... the records are there + in the mtf archives section i think there is a Rosewall vs Laver H2H that goes on forever, mainly during the years they 'disappeared' as pros... the fact that Rosewall won a GS in the 1950's and grinds himself into the dust against the best pros... yet can still manage to win a GS title 20 years later in the 1970's - in non-tiebreak era - is testament that: the words 'hardcourt' and 'longevity' don't belong in the same sentence... except for this one... if you include the 4 pro slams up to 68, it looks something like: Laver 22, Gonzalez 22, Rosewall 26. better for todays generation if the pro years are ignored... those records are too hard to fetch in todays much 'harder' tennis climate...)

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 02:11 AM
fast_clay you're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist -- an extremely unhappy one. :shrug:

Love the writing style, but you seem really invested in not enjoying tennis, above all else. If you think the machinations and transformation of tennis is so bad on the men's side, take a look at the women's, where the ball ISN'T kept in play for more than 3 shots right now. I know the WTA is seen as some sub-Dante pit of hell around here, but maybe its quick-strike nature (however inept in the worst moments) is closer to the tennis Glenn is looking for than the ATP. Or at least was when Momo and Henin were the top 2. That was some beautiful retro volley-centric shit.

I dunno, the other thing is that you seem in denial about the changes in Nadal's game. Against the kind of players that occupy the first 3 rounds of majors, he now possesses the game to smack them down in 2-3 shots each point. He didn't even less than a year ago. Remember Alun Jones? :drink: Things are still potentially rough for him on hard courts once you get into the final 8 or 16 though -- that's where he could be ground down, especially as each season progresses.

i dunno if conspiracy theroist fits the bill... i just think its very plain to see... if i were a tournament director, i'd be like: 'f**k the style, show me the money' too and make sure the top bills get free passage... just so happens that federer is comfortable enough as well that no one has their nose out of joint about whatever surface...

i think at the last queens event was where the most noticeable difference game adjustment, catching balls open stance around the baseline before they got away... starting the points further inside the baseline... it is noticeable... yet, not as noticeable as what style change went on once upon a time... i do in fact tip my hat to nadal for keeping the haas and and simon matches short... both players started on an equal footing in that final... that is all i'll say...

maybe a more aggressive form of tennis than we have ever seen may evolve and catch us all off gaurd next wimbledon... who could tell...?

but for the meantime, i will just say it how i see it...

meihaditalab
02-06-2009, 02:15 AM
Are you ever awake, watching so many Nadull matches?



Agreed.

Your rather annoying and pathetic comments are annoying me. Its stupid and not funny at all. Pretty sure *Nadull* has accomplished way more then you have and ever will in your life. so you cans stop hating and start appreciating what he has done and changed to the game of tennis.

CmonAussie
02-06-2009, 02:23 AM
yeah... i like to keep things simple... nadal is an advance on borg... it's all subjective tho, i feel he would've have found a way with wooden racquets, perhaps without the success, perhaps more... who knows...?

the lucky thing for world tennis as compared to a few years back: there are now some real players ready to step up and take the mantle when nadal's body can take no more... two of the heir apparents, tsonga and murray, had to redouble their efforts in maintaining their body once it was obvious what level was expected if they also wished to play all year...

(as a side not cmonaussie, just before the Slams went 'Open'... they allowed the reigning amatuer french open champion to play in the pro-equivalent The French Pro... he lost badly in straight sets in the first round... not a match of a kind calibre at all... the records are there + in the mtf archives section i think there is a Rosewall vs Laver H2H that goes on forever, mainly during the years they 'disappeared' as pros... the fact that Rosewall won a GS in the 1950's and grinds himself into the dust against the best pros... yet can still manage to win a GS title 20 years later in the 1970's - in non-tiebreak era - is testament that: the words 'hardcourt' and 'longevity' don't belong in the same sentence... except for this one... if you include the 4 pro slams up to 68, it looks something like: Laver 22, Gonzalez 22, Rosewall 26. better for todays generation if the pro years are ignored... those records are too hard to fetch in todays much 'harder' tennis climate...)


:cool:
thanks for the insights fast_clay;)
...
yeah as much as i like Federer i do think that perhaps it was destiny that a player like Nadal came along to steal his thunder/record breaking streak! *it just doesn`t seem right that Federer could accomplish more [according to the media/commentators] than Laver or Rosewall, in such a short space of time! the whole GOAT discussion has gone a bit far- as even Fed himself said there`s no point comparing between eras, thus his goal is simply to be the best of his generation! still i would prefer Federer have the record for most slams than Sampras [as Pete`s dominance seemed to be mostly built around his serve].

*i do think that the media/commentators >> should give more recognition to the Pro Slams that Laver/Rosewall/Gonzalez won, because its ridiculous to count Roy Emerson`s 12 amateur slams & not count the more competitive Pro Slams!! though GOAT discussion is a bit silly if anyone deserves it then surely Rod LAVER is the man [62 = Amateur Slam, 67 = Pro Slam, 69 = Open Slam]:worship:

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 04:40 AM
fast_clay you're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist -- an extremely unhappy one. :shrug:

Love the writing style, but you seem really invested in not enjoying tennis, above all else. If you think the machinations and transformation of tennis is so bad on the men's side, take a look at the women's, where the ball ISN'T kept in play for more than 3 shots right now. I know the WTA is seen as some sub-Dante pit of hell around here, but maybe its quick-strike nature (however inept in the worst moments) is closer to the tennis Glenn is looking for than the ATP. Or at least was when Momo and Henin were the top 2. That was some beautiful retro volley-centric shit.

I dunno, the other thing is that you seem in denial about the changes in Nadal's game. Against the kind of players that occupy the first 3 rounds of majors, he now possesses the game to smack them down in 2-3 shots each point. He didn't even less than a year ago. Remember Alun Jones? :drink: Things are still potentially rough for him on hard courts once you get into the final 8 or 16 though -- that's where he could be ground down, especially as each season progresses.

You gotta be joking me. You can't compare WTA to ATP. The WTA is mainly a hit-and-miss affair because the players there are unfit as hell.

There's nothing bad about being a moonballer.

There's nothing wrong about being a moonballer.

I myself prefer it to the "blink-and-you-miss-it" serve-n-volley game. Imagine watching a match between Karlovic and Mirnyi (not Glenn but Max) that is nothing but an ace slugfest. zzzzzz......

Of course, I wouldn't hold it against any tennis fan who prefers that kind of game. That's what makes tennis varied and exciting.

And here's my argument against Nadal's "ugly" game. Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder. Effortless grace can be beautiful. So can brute strength and pure grit. After all, we are talking about the Sports and not the Arts. There has to be the elements of strength, fitness and stamina factored in.

Tennis, as with the human race, cannot avoid evolution. If the human race can naturally evolve from an amoeba to different individuals like me, you or GlennMirnyi, tennis can surely evolve to the different styles of Nadal, Federer or Stepanek. How boring life and tennis would be if there are nothing but clones.

Resist the change, you'll just stay the same.
Don't move forward with the times, you'll just be left behind.

To the traditionalists/conservatives, what does it say about having a so-called one "correct" or "right" way to play when the "classically-trained" Federer who has no answers to solve the puzzle of the "unorthodox" game of Nadal?

Furthermore, Nadal has to be doing something right in his style of play to get the results (6 Slams + World #1).

As for his knees not holding up etc, we'll leave Nadal and his team to worry about that.

At least, even his tennis flame may not burn as long as someone like Agassi, he has already, and will continue to make sure his will burn as brightly as he can during his time, however shorter it may be.

And for those tennis "historians" who fear for the future of tennis of Nadal clones, fear not I say. Nadal, like Borg, is a special case, and comes only once in a blue moon. Youngsters can model themselves after Nadal's game, but will only achieve varying success.

Nadal is a natural right-handed athlete who plays left.
Nadal's family/coaching environment differs from everyone else.
Styles and strokes can be imitated, but mental grit, passion and determination cannot be replicated.

One Nadal is already too hot to handle for GM, we wouldn't want more "clones" to terrorise him in this lifetime. Or he may end up preferring the simple life of an amoeba.

1 - You've never watched Mirnyi play. He wasn't Karlovic. He didn't play acefests. He was a real serve-and-volleyer.
2 - Tennis isn't undergoing evolution. It's de-evolution. It's becoming a simpler game without any variation, where everybody looks and plays the same.
3 - Nadull is not a special case. He's just the clearest example of this horde of talentless players who can only hit topspin shots.

Your rather annoying and pathetic comments are annoying me. Its stupid and not funny at all. Pretty sure *Nadull* has accomplished way more then you have and ever will in your life. so you cans stop hating and start appreciating what he has done and changed to the game of tennis.

Blind fangirl.

Nadull is just a sportsman. What has he done for the people? Fuck nothing. Get a clue. I'm sure that just about any professional out there - physicians, engineers, teachers, have achieved much more in life than him - saving lives, building houses, passing the knowledge to youngsters.

He changed shit. The game had already changed when he came around.

Now go back to real life and realise that sportsmen are nothing. They don't give a rat's ass to the community.

Winners take all
02-06-2009, 06:03 AM
Nadal's contribution to tennis and its fans worldwide is immense.
First off, he further proved that with a good combination of rigorous traning, wise tactics, innate power and speed, and mental toughness you can thrash the living sh!t outta the so-called genius tennis artists, who are brainless, stubborn, and full of themselves, anytime and anywhere.
Secondly, since 2004 he's been saving the sport from the bloody boredom of Fechoker, thanks to the absence of real opponents, winning tourney after tourney.
Brain + Power + Speed > Brainlessness + Sissiness + the so-called 'Artistry'.

wilmar
02-06-2009, 06:30 AM
1 - You've never watched Mirnyi play. He wasn't Karlovic. He didn't play acefests. He was a real serve-and-volleyer.

Selective assumptions as usual.
I did mention "blink-and-you-miss-it" serve-n-volley game the sentence before.
Mirnyi may not be a Karlovic, but you can't base your game on serve-n-volley if your first serve ain't big.
BTW, I've seen Mirnyi play, especially those two times he was beaten in straight sets by Nadal, and one even coming on grass.

2 - Tennis isn't undergoing evolution. It's de-evolution. It's becoming a simpler game without any variation, where everybody looks and plays the same..

That's simply your own backward thinking.

3 - Nadull is not a special case. He's just the clearest example of this horde of talentless players who can only hit topspin shots. .

Nadal is a special case. He is so "talentless" that he can only win 3 different Slams on 3 different surfaces and be a World #1 based only on his topspin shots.
Stepanek, ranked 19 places below must be even more "talentless"...


Nadull is just a sportsman. What has he done for the people? Fuck nothing. Get a clue. I'm sure that just about any professional out there - physicians, engineers, teachers, have achieved much more in life than him - saving lives, building houses, passing the knowledge to youngsters..

Get a life! As you've said, Nadal is just a sportsman and not your political leader, so he is not obliged to "do anything" for the people, and especially for you.
A sportsman is required to train hard and excel in his choice of sports, not save lives, build house etc...

Don't go comparing with all the other professions you've mentioned. You can't judge him for being in a profession that he is not.

But the fact remains that Nadal has done more than just being a World #1. Charity foundations aside, he has inspired children worldwide to take up Tennis, and more importantly, has been a great role model for humility, hardwork, determination, dedication, passion, self-belief, common courtesy etc for these growing up kids. Character traits so lacking in you. But it gels, because you've never appreciated him as a player or a person.

Now go back to real life and realise that sportsmen are nothing. They don't give a rat's ass to the community.

So quit MTF. Don't get so hung up on MTF on a daily basis, taking up your time and wasting your effort.
These sportsmen have done nothing to gain your respect or attention.

mashamaniac
02-06-2009, 10:03 AM
i will give you this:

there had to be something to stop fed cranking up the bullsh!t with all those records... for sure.. there had to be an antidote for this ... every poor bastard falling over themselves to say how beautiful fed looked every time he waltzed his way to victory... and yeah, heh heh, the deeper irony lay in the fact that the 'cure' arrived in the form of a sickness... nadal... it had to be this way, i do see it clearly... i am not blinded by hate... i feel nadal has his place... but, he was only meant to stop fed from winning the french and provide us, the public, with the pure viewing pleasure of watching federer going about the end of his days as a player in some sort of lendl-like obsessive mode in his attempt to collect a real triumph on dirt... but.. for some f**ked reason... his knees havent given up yet... you can bet your bottom dollar that at the same time nadal is looking at his trophies, he is also looking at the long road ahead of him thinking... 'hmm... f**k ... so this is what i gotta do..? better make a call for a shorter season...'

the systematic slowing down of the surfaces that allows him the supreme success of running every ball down and making him #1, is the same system that will break him... in order to make the game more watchable in each city nadal arrives in, the courts are made slower... naturally, they want their big draw going deep...

and somewhere... deep down, nadal's own knees are saying: 'oh yeah... i wish we had some shorter points...'

a victim of his own success...

beautiful no...?


Pure Hatred i see ... and you told me you're not even a hater??! :confused:

chewy
02-06-2009, 10:56 AM
i always thought "moonballer" was used to describe shots that is hit high without much control/intention, like when beginners take up tennis. This is definitely not i how see Nadal plays.

I don't know if its Nadal, his coach or both started developing this very effective shot, topspin + power. he's not the first to use it but has definitely taken this shot to a new level and made it much more significant. he's able to hit a supposedly "safe" defensive shot with margin for error as a winner/offensive point. Then add his speed and agility around the court, its no wonder he's at the very top in this sport. Why hit a higher risk flat forehand drive when you can hit a 160kmh topspin winner! http://www.laymark.com/i/cz/cz22.gif (http://www.laymark.com)

this has become his signature move and i think he's very smart in mastering this technique. and/or the coach that teaches this method.

ORGASMATRON
02-06-2009, 11:27 AM
Well the term moonballing is a typical term you would find in MTF. It's just people ho are pissed off. In the end its not how you look when you win as long as you win. I will say this though, there is an imbalance in tennis which needs to be set right. At the moment tennis is heavily favoring the base liners which is unhealthy.

miura
02-06-2009, 11:46 AM
As a Federer fan and not so much a Nadal fan I can still see that some people here are exaggerating when it comes to the description of Nadal's game when it comes to moonballing. There is no getting away from he has a quite monotonous game but going as far as calling it moonballing is a bit too much. If you are watching WTA matches, especially with players below the top 30 you witness some moonballing over the course of a match. Instead of slicing if they have to run up a ball, they simply produce a shot a bit like a lob to aquire a bit more time to get back in position. Since it's WTA and the eager to go into the net is next to nothing, the player on the receiving end of the 'moonball' just backs up a few metres behind the baseline and neatly returns it with literaly no pace at all. This is unbearable to watch in the lenght. I guess it's the high path over the nets thats makes it comparable to moonballing.

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 12:35 PM
Pure Hatred i see ... and you told me you're not even a hater??! :confused:

oh come on now, maybe you are not an englih speaker and cant feel the tone... but, a lot of it is tongue in cheek... in the extreme...

the problem that the era that both federer and nadal came into is that, most of the hype is centred around two guys... the problem with this in comparison to other years is that everyone will bend over backwards for them no matter where on the planet they land... in most other eras the number of past and potential grand slam winners is much greater... and thus, you have a situation whereby many different players and styles can be catered for at any particular event...

from surface to surface, the difference in court speed today... is merely cosmetic... none... zero...

i agree with nadal in the fact that the tour must change... he is a victim of what mcenroe once described as one of the last true communist sytems going around... nadal MUST play these hardcourt events coming up in the spring... HE F***ING HAS TO... where, in times gone by, he may have been able to bypass these events, and leave the hardcourt slog till late in the year, yet still p!ss all over federer in the rankings to become number one...

but no... he is a product OWNED and LICENCED by the ATP... and... he must do himself damage as the ATP put the players in nappies and make his daily program... 'Yes rafa, you cant be naughty... hardcourts in america... its springtime... now please...'

federer says he'd like to play till he's 35... and although he's got a better chance than most due to the way he moves and his style, i'll believe it when i see it...

moonballing doesnt pay... not today at least...

vilas can kick a football today, without too much trouble, but because nadal is seen as such a phenom, that simple pleasure he may not be able to acheive as he said himself when his career is done... he is a victim of the 'slow down'... deep down, i bet he wishes he would have been forced to adapt his game to much quicker surfaces... but, right now, he's not being asked to...

cos the slowdown puts bums on seats...

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 01:34 PM
Selective assumptions as usual.
I did mention "blink-and-you-miss-it" serve-n-volley game the sentence before.
Mirnyi may not be a Karlovic, but you can't base your game on serve-n-volley if your first serve ain't big.
BTW, I've seen Mirnyi play, especially those two times he was beaten in straight sets by Nadal, and one even coming on grass.



That's simply your own backward thinking.



Nadal is a special case. He is so "talentless" that he can only win 3 different Slams on 3 different surfaces and be a World #1 based only on his topspin shots.
Stepanek, ranked 19 places below must be even more "talentless"...



Get a life! As you've said, Nadal is just a sportsman and not your political leader, so he is not obliged to "do anything" for the people, and especially for you.
A sportsman is required to train hard and excel in his choice of sports, not save lives, build house etc...

Don't go comparing with all the other professions you've mentioned. You can't judge him for being in a profession that he is not.

But the fact remains that Nadal has done more than just being a World #1. Charity foundations aside, he has inspired children worldwide to take up Tennis, and more importantly, has been a great role model for humility, hardwork, determination, dedication, passion, self-belief, common courtesy etc for these growing up kids. Character traits so lacking in you. But it gels, because you've never appreciated him as a player or a person.



So quit MTF. Don't get so hung up on MTF on a daily basis, taking up your time and wasting your effort.
These sportsmen have done nothing to gain your respect or attention.

As usual you step up, Nadull's lawyer.

If you think that a sportsman should be considered more important than any of the professions I listed, you must have pretty distorted values in life.

You compare a guy who has everything on his favour to two guys who played/play a style completely different from what's being played. I bet that if both were trained to be moonballers in the 80s-90s, they'd be much better than Nadull the moonballer nowadays.

Put Nadull in the 90s and he wouldn't even be a top 10. I doubt he'd beat any of the really good claycourters.

In other words, you know as much about tennis as Stevie Wonder knows about sightseeing and goes on and on and on about it. :zzz: Get a clue.

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 01:38 PM
Nadal's contribution to tennis and its fans worldwide is immense.
First off, he further proved that with a good combination of rigorous traning, wise tactics, innate power and speed, and mental toughness you can thrash the living sh!t outta the so-called genius tennis artists, who are brainless, stubborn, and full of themselves, anytime and anywhere.
Secondly, since 2004 he's been saving the sport from the bloody boredom of Fechoker, thanks to the absence of real opponents, winning tourney after tourney.
Brain + Power + Speed > Brainlessness + Sissiness + the so-called 'Artistry'.

Another dolt.

Nadull's is everything tennis should never be. Simple. If you disagree, you have no idea what tennis is about.

Nadull only beats mugs, chokers and clowns. Everytime he plays a good player who's not afraid of him he loses. He even lost to Simon, the softest hitter in the top 20. :roll:

Brain? Yeah right. The day he manages to say 3 coherent sentences in English you can talk about "brain". Moonballing to the opponent's backhand isn't rocket science.

Winners take all
02-06-2009, 01:40 PM
I bet blah blah
he wouldn't have yadda yadda
I doubt blah blah
-----------------------------
0% reliability = Total rubbish.

Fedtardism truly madly deeply lives up to its 'reputation'!

GlennMirnyi
02-06-2009, 01:44 PM
I bet blah blah
he wouldn't have yadda yadda
I doubt blah blah
-----------------------------
0% reliability = Total rubbish.

Fedtardism truly madly deeply lives up to its 'reputation'!

Yes, no?

No, no?

Maybe, no?

Brainy, no?

When Nadull win a GS not beating Frauderer in the final feel free to say anything. Until then, it only proves Frauderer is a wussy, nothing more. :wavey:

Winners take all
02-06-2009, 02:26 PM
Nadull's is everything tennis should never be. Simple. If you disagree, you have no idea what tennis is about.
Who on Earth are you that you grant yourself the right to define what tennis should be or should not be? The president of ATP? Oops, my bad, seems I guessed it wrong! LMAO!
Nadull only beats mugs, chokers and clowns. Everytime he plays a good player who's not afraid of him he loses. He even lost to Simon, the softest hitter in the top 20. :roll:
I don't give it a sh!t. If he loses, he loses. And, IIRC, Nadal just anihilated Simon in the AO 2009 quarterfinals in straight sets. So, at least get your fact right before openning your mouth, my dear blowhard.
Brain? Yeah right. The day he manages to say 3 coherent sentences in English you can talk about "brain". Moonballing to the opponent's backhand isn't rocket science.
What the fvck does Nadal's tactical tennis have anything to do with his English? Your logic is really screwed up my dear, cause Nadal is a professional athlete, and not a linguist. Nadal and his tennis reflects the power of brain because he is mentally strong, he plays the effective tennis, he consistently attacks the weaknesses of his opponents, he doesn't mind adjusting tactics while the match is still going on to reach the final victory. Enough?
My dear tennis connoisseur, do you know Gary Kasparov, the greatest chess player? Do you think he's stupid just because he's not good at English?
When Nadull win a GS not beating Frauderer in the final feel free to say anything. Until then, it only proves Frauderer is a wussy, nothing more.
You should blame your beloved so-called 'tennis artists'. It's not that Nadal doesn't want to play them in finals. The problem is that they're so impotent that they've not been able to get into the finals of more than a couple of grand slams.

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 02:49 PM
nadal's moonball game is very simple, yet tough to unlock... this is the case with many worthy puzzles...

especially with a seemingly watertight mentality driving beneath the the puzzle, i can see why even federer is hurting mentally when both he and we all believed that he had worked out all his shot selections issues a few years back... not so...

i guess therein lay the clash in styles... federer has many keys to pick many locks... yet, 19 matches later, he is still found fumbling around for the right combination... whereas nadal, is, nadal... simple... limited arary of shots... makes for an easy game to believe in... as the shot selection issues are minimal...

cmurray
02-06-2009, 02:58 PM
Well the term moonballing is a typical term you would find in MTF. It's just people ho are pissed off. In the end its not how you look when you win as long as you win. I will say this though, there is an imbalance in tennis which needs to be set right. At the moment tennis is heavily favoring the base liners which is unhealthy.

Federer is a baseliner.

cmurray
02-06-2009, 02:59 PM
Yes, no?

No, no?

Maybe, no?

Brainy, no?

When Nadull win a GS not beating Frauderer in the final feel free to say anything. Until then, it only proves Frauderer is a wussy, nothing more. :wavey:

Puerta. :wavey:

tennizen
02-06-2009, 03:05 PM
nadal's moonball game is very simple, yet tough to unlock... this is the case with many worthy puzzles...

especially with a seemingly watertight mentality driving beneath the the puzzle, i can see why even federer is hurting mentally when both he and we all believed that he had worked out all his shot selections issues a few years back... not so...

i guess therein lay the clash in styles... federer has many keys to pick many locks... yet, 19 matches later, he is still found fumbling around for the right combination... whereas nadal, is, nadal... simple... limited arary of shots... makes for an easy game to believe in... as the shot selection issues are minimal...


Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius—and a lot of courage—to move in the opposite direction.- E. F. Schumacker


The ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak.-Hans Hofmann


A man must be able to cut a knot, for everything cannot be untied; he must know how to disengage what is essential from the detail in which it is enwrapped, for everything cannot be equally considered; in a word, he must be able to simplify his duties, his business and his life.-Henri Frederic Amiel

star
02-06-2009, 03:27 PM
Federer is a baseliner.

:worship:

Thank you for stating what is obvious to anyone who grew up watching actual serve and volley tennis. :hatoff:

fast_clay
02-06-2009, 03:39 PM
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius—and a lot of courage—to move in the opposite direction.- E. F. Schumacker


The ability to simplify means to eliminate the unnecessary so that the necessary may speak.-Hans Hofmann


A man must be able to cut a knot, for everything cannot be untied; he must know how to disengage what is essential from the detail in which it is enwrapped, for everything cannot be equally considered; in a word, he must be able to simplify his duties, his business and his life.-Henri Frederic Amiel

life for the best of us has more to do with how well we are enjoyed and less to do with how well we are remembered... the deeper irony being that, if we at first enjoyed, we are forever etched into the memory...

probably belongs in the puzzle thread, though, it seems federer has his eye on a number... a pure love for the game diminishing under the weight of history...

nadal is playing on a new wavelength... the simple thrill of competition... federer must now go to him and do battle... at that place...

anyways... to truly understand the good... you must first come to know the bad... otherwise, you have no idea... federer is down there somewhere... by the looks...

GugaF1
02-06-2009, 05:33 PM
Rios could hit some amazing moonballs for variety shots. He would be in a intense rally, and would sometimes just casually hit a ball high and deep to gain time, trow the opponent off and set up to do whatever he wanted. Certainly nothing wrong with that...

HattonWBA
02-06-2009, 05:43 PM
nothing wrong with it, unless its the only shot u got then theres problems

star
02-06-2009, 05:43 PM
life for the best of us has more to do with how well we are enjoyed and less to do with how well we are remembered... the deeper irony being that, if we at first enjoyed, we are forever etched into the memory...

probably belongs in the puzzle thread, though, it seems federer has his eye on a number... a pure love for the game diminishing under the weight of history...

nadal is playing on a new wavelength... the simple thrill of competition... federer must now go to him and do battle... at that place...

anyways... to truly understand the good... you must first come to know the bad... otherwise, you have no idea... federer is down there somewhere... by the looks...

Or as Andre Agassi said more simply. You have to enjoy the process.

I'm afraid the goal has become more important than the process for Federer at this point. Perhaps he will get back to the point of enjoying the process more than the reward. I still think he'll get to 15 and maybe even more.

Tom_Bombadil
02-06-2009, 06:13 PM
i always thought "moonballer" was used to describe shots that is hit high without much control/intention, like when beginners take up tennis. This is definitely not i how see Nadal plays.

I don't know if its Nadal, his coach or both started developing this very effective shot, topspin + power. he's not the first to use it but has definitely taken this shot to a new level and made it much more significant. he's able to hit a supposedly "safe" defensive shot with margin for error as a winner/offensive point. Then add his speed and agility around the court, its no wonder he's at the very top in this sport. Why hit a higher risk flat forehand drive when you can hit a 160kmh topspin winner! http://www.laymark.com/i/cz/cz22.gif (http://www.laymark.com)

this has become his signature move and i think he's very smart in mastering this technique. and/or the coach that teaches this method.

Absolutely agree on this. Why should Nadal play a risky shot when he's able to produce devastating winners with his forehand and playing the ball safe? The technique he posseses permits him to do so. It would be silly to hit flat and commit more UEs.

And of course, all these cry-a-rivers are just frustrated Nadal haters who can't give up in his hate. The thing is just as simple as this: if Nadal plays under the rules of tennis and wins, that's tennis. There's no necessity to be that open-minded to understand a thing as simple as that.

Tennis, after all, evolves. The same as other sports.

wilmar
02-07-2009, 12:50 AM
As usual you step up, Nadull's lawyer.

But I'm your nurse to you, having to make sure you get your daily dose of reality-injection to prevent all your constant hallucinations.

If you think that a sportsman should be considered more important than any of the professions I listed, you must have pretty distorted values in life.

You probably haven't gotten your ears dug, or your eyes washed in eons.
I never said being a sportsman is more important than your other list of professions.
I simply stated that you cannot judge Nadal (a sportsman) with the criteria of a doctor, a contractor or an educator.
I doubt you would judge your wife with the criteria you would use for your child.
And that's not saying one is better than the other. It's simply that each has a different role to play.
So there, I think you are the one with the warped world view if your sense of logic is so muddled.

You compare a guy who has everything on his favour to two guys who played/play a style completely different from what's being played. I bet that if both were trained to be moonballers in the 80s-90s, they'd be much better than Nadull the moonballer nowadays..

Assumptions. Assumptions. Assumptions.
Pointless. Pointless. Pointless.
Let's stick with reality.
That itself, is also quite a handful with all your grandoise of delusions.

Put Nadull in the 90s and he wouldn't even be a top 10. I doubt he'd beat any of the really good claycourters..

Zzzzzz....please refer to my same point above.

In other words, you know as much about tennis as Stevie Wonder knows about sightseeing and goes on and on and on about it. :zzz: Get a clue.

I may be "blind", but I can see the "light".
As for you, your heart is blind.

Who on Earth are you that you grant yourself the right to define what tennis should be or should not be? The president of ATP? Oops, my bad, seems I guessed it wrong! LMAO!.

Hush hush now...Glenn is the self-appointed high-n-mighty hoity-toity G.O.D... we have to bow down to his royal highness, revere his sacred presence and take his words as the absolute biblical truth, and nothing but that...Hail the new king...oh wait, that's Djoker..

Or as Andre Agassi said more simply. You have to enjoy the process..

EXACTLY! And Nadal is so aware of that. He says he loves more the competition to win than the win itself :worship:

Ozone
02-07-2009, 12:53 AM
Here is what is wrong with it:
the fact that if you ever get in the high levels of tennis, you will get ***** if youre a moonballer.

fran70
02-07-2009, 04:13 PM
Moonballing is anti-tennis. It`s the weapon of clowns who have no technique. That`s why it`s pathetic. Only a moron would prefer to be a moonballer being talented enough to have flat, penetrating shots.

To say that to play a moonballing game is anti-tennis is the same as to say that a serve and volleying game is anti-tennis aswell. Nowadays some players play tactically moonball shots against certain players or during certain matches because is more effective. There are not really moonballing players on these days. There used to be a lot of moonballing players on the 80ties and early 90ties like Wilander, Bruguera, Mantilla, Kent Carlsson or Gilbert Schaller that use to play that kind of tennis as their own game whoever they played with. But not anymore on these days as there are not 100% serve and volley players. More or less aggresive tennis, fast or clay courts, everybody plays almost the same kind of tennis.

A_Skywalker
02-07-2009, 05:03 PM
Moonballing is the best tennis I have ever seen. Its good we have nadal and Murray to show us beautiful tennis. :)

ReturnWinner
02-07-2009, 06:32 PM
its not something appealing but its nothing bad either, just a particular tactic or way of play.

fast_clay
02-07-2009, 10:12 PM
To say that to play a moonballing game is anti-tennis is the same as to say that a serve and volleying game is anti-tennis aswell. Nowadays some players play tactically moonball shots against certain players or during certain matches because is more effective. There are not really moonballing players on these days. There used to be a lot of moonballing players on the 80ties and early 90ties like Wilander, Bruguera, Mantilla, Kent Carlsson or Gilbert Schaller that use to play that kind of tennis as their own game whoever they played with. But not anymore on these days as there are not 100% serve and volley players. More or less aggresive tennis, fast or clay courts, everybody plays almost the same kind of tennis.

yeah... great avvy :worship:

SaFed2005
02-07-2009, 11:57 PM
What is serve and volley? I don't even see players like Dent and Stepanek come to the net much these days. Tennis to me is not as much fun to watch as it used to be. I used to love watching Agassi vs Rafter matches. These days everyone is at the baseline bashing the ball most of the time. Sure Federer used to serve & volley once upon a time. Ya I remember now he used to lose to Hewitt back then. Then he became a baseliner and started winning everything.
Fact of the matter is serve and volley is pretty much extinct now. Not just at pro level but also at amateur level. I play tennis and when i see someone come near the net for some reason I seem to hit better shots than when they are at the baseline. Its like target practice with the racket technology and all. Almost everyone hits with topspin now. Flat hitters are very rare.
Oh an to stay more on topic I dont think Nadal is a moonballer at all. I consider a moonballer someone who just hits deep shots... sure they can be high. But they have nothing on them. No pace really. they just pretty much sit up there and thats all they do. There is no way that works at pro level. Nadal hits very heavy balls with a ridiculous amount of spin that bounces up.

:worship:

Thank you for stating what is obvious to anyone who grew up watching actual serve and volley tennis. :hatoff:

FairWeatherFan
02-08-2009, 02:48 AM
Moonballing is ugly and a cheap way to win, quite simply. At least that's how I see it, but of course it's a matter of taste.

Nadal is not really a moonballer IMO. I think of moonballing as hitting with no pace but heavy topspin, whilst Nadal does hit with a great deal of power. Not that his game is particular nice to watch off clay (Nadal's game-style winning Wimbledon 2008 is a blemish on the sport's history that will never be cleansed, even if by some miracle tennis recovers from its present abyss level). The same goes with the clay players in the 90s, I would not call their use of heavy topspin moonballing per se. Some of their point construction on clay was amazing and deserves more respect than the term.

CmonAussie
04-20-2009, 02:56 AM
...
~~~
After watching the way Nadal hits his forehand a lot flatter now (even on clay) perhaps the `moonballer` tag no longer applies??

Rafa undoubtedly can still produce more topspin than any other player on tour, but his preference for an abbreviated (less whippy) forehand, and more aggressive shots of both wings>> show that he`s no longer the moonballer he once was!! His newer technique is more effective for ending points quickly, but he`s also making more UEs than he would with the older stroke!

FlameOn
05-02-2009, 12:33 AM
Why people think Nadal is a moonballer is something I'll never get. If you want to see real moonballing check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1MbDZaZ7os

Arkulari
05-02-2009, 12:42 AM
both Arantxa and Conchita were always moonballers and Graf/Seles keet pwing them 'cuz of that :lol:

Rafa might have started like that, but right now has much more variety on his game and can hit as flat as the best if he wants to ;)

Angle Queen
05-02-2009, 12:52 AM
...If you are watching WTA matches, especially with players below the top 30 you witness some moonballing over the course of a match. Instead of slicing if they have to run up a ball, they simply produce a shot a bit like a lob to aquire a bit more time to get back in position....Yep.

Moonballing = Ladies Who Lob

Heavy Topspin = Heavy Topspin. Period.

I've played again moonballers. It sucks. It takes patience. But it's beatable. Nadal ain't lookin' so beatable these days. ;)

kingfederer
05-02-2009, 01:03 AM
moonballing is winning tennis.

Richardgm
05-02-2009, 03:46 AM
Why people think Nadal is a moonballer is something I'll never get. If you want to see real moonballing check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1MbDZaZ7os

I'm relatively new to tennis (4 years old), and I have to say that I've never seen anything like that before... until now.

groundstroke
05-02-2009, 09:20 AM
I'm relatively new to tennis (4 years old), and I have to say that I've never seen anything like that before... until now.

That is why tennis newbies (not being offensive) shouldn't criticise any playing styles because you don't understand everything about the playing style.

Nadal is a perfected moonballer, people can say he doesn't hit moonballs, but trust me; when guys like Federer has out-classed him in a rally, he has no other tactic than to stick a long moonball to the opponents backhand - and that is a pure moonballer at heart.

kingfederer
05-02-2009, 09:23 AM
That is why tennis newbies (not being offensive) shouldn't criticise any playing styles because you don't understand everything about the playing style.

Nadal is a perfected moonballer, people can say he doesn't hit moonballs, but trust me; when guys like Federer has out-classed him in a rally, he has no other tactic than to stick a long moonball to the opponents backhand - and that is a pure moonballer at heart.

moonbaing is 21st century tennis. its winning tennis. moonballing is for all time greats, even borg moonballed sometimes. i love moonballing, its real tennis!