Safin's Comments about Davydenko [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Safin's Comments about Davydenko

lordmanji
10-17-2006, 06:02 PM
To the russians and europeans out there, why did Safin make such a big deal about Davydenko being from the Ukraine in their Moscow final? Isn't Davydenko listed as a Russian on the atp profile? Or did they really mean soviet?

MariaV
10-17-2006, 06:52 PM
To the russians and europeans out there, why did Safin make such a big deal about Davydenko being from the Ukraine in their Moscow final? Isn't Davydenko listed as a Russian on the atp profile? Or did they really mean soviet?

Davydenko was born is Severodonetsk which is situated in Ukraine. And from the nationality (NOT in the meaning of citizenship) he is Ukranian. He chose to play for Russia after the Soviet Union collapsed.

I am not sure if his parents moved somewhere to Russia.

Oh, and Marat said IT WAS A JOKE!!!!!! GEEZ, MARAT WAS JOKING! People were shouting both 'Kolya' and 'Marat' during the final and Marat found it necessary to make a joke after the match.

lordmanji
10-17-2006, 07:06 PM
so how can he play for russia when he's ukrainian? is ukraine part of russia?

MariaV
10-17-2006, 07:09 PM
so how can he play for russia when he's ukrainian? is ukraine part of russia?

You know there was Soviet Union and when it collapsed ppl had choice, which citizenship to choose. I could have chosen Russian citizenship for example but I am an Estonian by nationality and will always be, doesn't depend on my citizenship now or in the future. :D

And the same as Medvedev who was Russian by nationality choose to play for Ukraine. :D

I hope you get the idea. Athletes can change citizenship you know, and other people too.
And there wasn't Ukranian or Russian citizenship before. We were all Soviet citizens. Ukraine and Russia were both part of Soviet Union.

Saumon
10-17-2006, 07:10 PM
:o

alelysafina
10-17-2006, 07:11 PM
I am not sure if his parents moved somewhere to Russia.




His parents do live in Russia...don't remember where though...

Jim Jones
10-17-2006, 07:12 PM
so how can he play for russia when he's ukrainian? is ukraine part of russia?

Hey haven't you heard of the term immigrants? The chap lived in Moscow for many years and so qualified for Russian citizenship. Tennis is more developed in Russia for juniors then it is in Ukraine. But that did not stop Medvedev, an ethnic Russian from playing for Ukraine where he grew up.
Ukraine and Russia were part of USSR but broke up in 1991 before you were born.

MariaV
10-17-2006, 07:24 PM
Hey haven't you heard of the term immigrants? The chap lived in Moscow for many years and so qualified for Russian citizenship. Tennis is more developed in Russia for juniors then it is in Ukraine. But that did not stop Medvedev, an ethnic Russian from playing for Ukraine where he grew up.
Ukraine and Russia were part of USSR but broke up in 1991 before you were born.

Thanks for your help Jim. :D

I know in the US maybe the terms 'nationality' and 'citizenship' are used as synonyms so maybe it would be better to say that Kolya is of Ukranian ethnicity? I am not sure about in what meaning this word (ethnicity) can be used but I hope you got the idea now lordmanji.

KaxMisha
10-17-2006, 08:06 PM
so how can he play for russia when he's ukrainian? is ukraine part of russia?

How can Kevin Kim play for the USA when he is clearly of Korean descent? Is Korea part of the USA?

Pea
10-17-2006, 08:10 PM
How can Kevin Kim play for the USA when he is clearly of Korean descent? Is Korea part of the USA?

Definitely not North Korea.:scared:

World Beater
10-17-2006, 08:23 PM
it wouldnt have been so funny if davydenko joked that marat isnt a real russian, and that he is a tatar...but since marat said it, it must be acceptable.

MarieS
10-17-2006, 08:36 PM
it wouldnt have been so funny if davydenko joked that marat isnt a real russian, and that he is a tatar...but since marat said it, it must be acceptable.

I'm really tempted to use the :retard: smiley, but I won't. Please refrain from making comments in topics you clearly don't know very much about. Tatar is an ethnicity; Ukrainian is a nationality. Tatars are Russian citizens by birth; Ukrainians aren't. You're making way too big a deal out of this. It would be analogous to, say if Haas lost to Misha Zverev in a final and jokingly berated the crowd for rooting for the kid since he's Russian. :rolleyes:

mer
10-17-2006, 08:43 PM
it wouldnt have been so funny if davydenko joked that marat isnt a real russian, and that he is a tatar...but since marat said it, it must be acceptable.
I think Marat's joke was stupid. The joke about Marat's being tatar would be much worse though, comletely different thing. Marat joked that Kolya is actually FROM Ukrain, it was joke about nationality. Marat was born in russia, his parents, grantparents etc were born in russia and Tatarstan is part of Russia, saying that Marat not russian would be shauvinictic.

World Beater
10-17-2006, 08:48 PM
I'm really tempted to use the :retard: smiley, but I won't. Please refrain from making comments in topics you clearly don't know very much about. Tatar is an ethnicity; Ukrainian is a nationality. Tatars are Russian citizens by birth; Ukrainians aren't. You're making way too big a deal out of this. It would be analogous to, say if Haas lost to Misha Zverev in a final and jokingly berated the crowd for rooting for the kid since he's Russian. :rolleyes:

no, i actually know that tatar is an ethnicity...

thing is that davydenko DID SAY this a while back in much less harsh terms...

someone asked davy about safin,he said sth to the tune of "safin is a tatar, not a real russian"...it was prolly less harsh than this. but he definately said something like this. maybe someone else can corroborate with me, as i dont have the source where i read it(i read it on this forum).

mer
10-17-2006, 08:53 PM
no, i actually know that tatar isnt an ethnicity...

thing is that davydenko DID SAY this a while back in much less harsh terms...

someone asked davy about safin,he said sth to the tune of "safin is a tatar, not a real russian"...it was prolly less harsh than this. but he definately said something like this. maybe someone else can corroborate with me, as i dont have the source where i read it(i read it on this forum).
yes, I remember it was in some article. I thought Kolya's comments were a bit strange. Nobody bashed him for that though;)

World Beater
10-17-2006, 08:54 PM
yes, I remember it was in some article. I thought Kolya's comments were a bit strange. Nobody bashed him for that though;)

thanks. at least someone realizes im not spewing random hate...:)

mer
10-17-2006, 09:01 PM
thanks. at least someone realizes im not spewing random hate...:)
;)
That must be the famous Slavic spirit, which leads you to euphoria before it leads you into depression. It’s again an image which sticks to the character, but Safin himself uses it, probably to avoid the questions from journalists easier. Because it can’t be that simple. Somebody told him about Labadze’s theory: if the Russians don’t really want to play before they start a match, then they don’t really play. And Safin answered, mocking: “It’s Labadze. He is Georgian”. In brief, what does he know about Russians? Then it continues with the ups and downs of Davydenko, who disagrees: “Careful! Marat isn’t Russian. He’s a Tatar”. So what? What does it change? “Well, he’s a bit weird. Me for instance, I prefer to play doubles with Russians. I play with Andreev”.

MarieS
10-17-2006, 09:12 PM
thanks. at least someone realizes im not spewing random hate...:)

i don't think you are. You're just comparing apples to oranges. What Davy said is far less sensitive than Marat pointing out that Kolya is from Ukraine. :shrug:

World Beater
10-17-2006, 09:23 PM
i don't think you are. You're just comparing apples to oranges. What Davy said is far less sensitive than Marat pointing out that Kolya is from Ukraine. :shrug:

isnt davydenko a russian citizen?

if he is, then it would be the same thing for me to say that kevin kim is not a real american, he is a korean. that is pretty harsh no matter how you look at it...korean is not an ethnicity just like ukrainain isnt.

Purple Rainbow
10-17-2006, 09:35 PM
Generally, last names ending with -enko imply Ukrainian descent. If a last name ends with -adze or -villi, you can assume the person has Georgian roots. People from Latvia often have first and last names ending with an -s.

I'm sure there are more rules of thumb concerning last names in former Soviet states. What is the deal with -in(a) and -ov(a) for example? Are they also from different regions/countries?

mer
10-17-2006, 09:57 PM
isnt davydenko a russian citizen?

if he is, then it would be the same thing for me to say that kevin kim is not a real american, he is a korean. that is pretty harsh no matter how you look at it...korean is not an ethnicity just like ukrainain isnt.

More right comparision would be joking that Sharapova is russian and not american if Sharapova took USA citizenship. Not too harsh I guess.
Though like I said Marat's joke was stupid, i didn't like at at all.

Edit. No, Sharapova is a bad example...

Kalliopeia
10-17-2006, 10:30 PM
Also, Marat's sweat = Tatar sauce. :drool:

:haha::haha: Awesome.

World Beater
10-17-2006, 11:09 PM
:speakles: :o :tape:

Just a quick clarification: most Korean-Americans consider themselves would indeed say "Korean" when asked what their ethnicity is, but "American" when asked what their nationality is. (Hence the term "Korean-American.")


is there anything ethnically different between japanese and korean? Is there a far greater difference than being ukranian or russian?

btw...i wasnt serious about the kevin kim example. i was just using an analogy. i by no means believe it to be true.

MarieS
10-18-2006, 01:01 AM
isnt davydenko a russian citizen?


Yes but he was born in the Ukraine. I don't think Marat's comment was insulting; he was just pointing out the obvious. It wasn't so much offensive as it was just a really bad joke.

Action Jackson
10-18-2006, 01:09 AM
There is nothing in this at all.

amierin
10-18-2006, 01:57 AM
Anyone care to post Marat's statement? This is the first I'm hearing of this.

soraya
10-18-2006, 03:42 AM
I'm really tempted to use the :retard: smiley, but I won't. Please refrain from making comments in topics you clearly don't know very much about. Tatar is an ethnicity; Ukrainian is a nationality. Tatars are Russian citizens by birth; Ukrainians aren't. You're making way too big a deal out of this. It would be analogous to, say if Haas lost to Misha Zverev in a final and jokingly berated the crowd for rooting for the kid since he's Russian. :rolleyes:

You shouldn't get upset my dear, people are just trying to understand the subtlety of nationality, ethnicity, citizenship and so on. As you are stating now Ukrain is a nation but before the break wasn't part of the greater Russia? I found Marat's "joke" a bit tasteless and I really like the guy, if Davydenko for whatever reasons chose to represent Russia and feels ok with it, it should be something all Russians including Marat should be proud of. On another note, I have read somewhere that Davydenko grew up in Germany, so I wonder how much time he spent in Ukraine for him to feel a Ukranian citizen even if he is by birth or by ethnic group. So if you know more about the issue than the rest of us, please enlighten us.

bellascarlett
10-18-2006, 04:13 AM
That must be the famous Slavic spirit, which leads you to euphoria before it leads you into depression. It’s again an image which sticks to the character, but Safin himself uses it, probably to avoid the questions from journalists easier. Because it can’t be that simple. Somebody told him about Labadze’s theory: if the Russians don’t really want to play before they start a match, then they don’t really play. And Safin answered, mocking: “It’s Labadze. He is Georgian”. In brief, what does he know about Russians? Then it continues with the ups and downs of Davydenko, who disagrees: “Careful! Marat isn’t Russian. He’s a Tatar”. So what? What does it change? “Well, he’s a bit weird. Me for instance, I prefer to play doubles with Russians. I play with Andreev”.

:confused: did davydenko just call marat weird? :lol: not that its surprising but still...and excludes marat when he says he plays with Russians...why is nationality or ethnicity such a sensitive subject among the Russian players or i guess i should say those players who play under the Russian flag?

bad gambler
10-18-2006, 04:15 AM
nice one Marat :lol:

Vass
10-18-2006, 04:15 AM
it wouldnt have been so funny if davydenko joked that marat isnt a real russian, and that he is a tatar...but since marat said it, it must be acceptable.

:spit:

Tatars in Russia have been born and lived there for CENTURIES.
African-Americans in the US are not really Americans, but since mmmmm... James Blake says it, it must be acceptable. (Btw so aren't the white people, and in general, unless you're a red indian, don't call yourself American)


Disclaimer: I'm totally sarcastic and do not support the view i expressed above.

MarieS
10-18-2006, 04:30 AM
You shouldn't get upset my dear, people are just trying to understand the subtlety of nationality, ethnicity, citizenship and so on. As you are stating now Ukrain is a nation but before the break wasn't part of the greater Russia? I found Marat's "joke" a bit tasteless and I really like the guy, if Davydenko for whatever reasons chose to represent Russia and feels ok with it, it should be something all Russians including Marat should be proud of. On another note, I have read somewhere that Davydenko grew up in Germany, so I wonder how much time he spent in Ukraine for him to feel a Ukranian citizen even if he is by birth or by ethnic group. So if you know more about the issue than the rest of us, please enlighten us.

:wavey: Ukrainians and Russians aren't the same thing. Both countries were a part of the Soviet Union, which does not in any way imply that somehow Ukrainians are Russian.I was born in the Soviet Union, and I'm not Russian. In fact I'm very far from it :lol:. Kolya was born in the Ukraine, and is Ukrainian. There can be no question about that; now, he has a Russian citizenship, but that doesn't make him Russian. I think the reason why Americans struggle with the concept is because American is a citizenship and the distinction between ethnicity/citizenship isn't as pronounced in the sense that if you're born there or hold an American passport you're automatically American...
No one said Marat isn't proud or isn't supportive of Kolya. All that happens was: Marat, during his trophy presentation speech, thanked the crowd "even though more of you cheered for kolya, which I don't understand. He's ukrainian!" He was smiling all through that, and kolya was laughing as well. :shrug: Again, it wasn't in poor taste, it was just a very unfunny joke.

Veronique
10-18-2006, 05:08 AM
I can see the spirit in which this joke was told. No big deal at all! I'm sure Kolya is proud of his Ukrainian heritage.

helen phillips
10-18-2006, 06:35 AM
Candidly I like Davydenko despite the fact that he is Ukranian rather than because he is one. There is and old Irish saying: "what's bread in the bone". My great Aunt wouldn't attend her only son's wedding to a Ukranian woman, her explanation: "do you know how many of our people those people killed". What happened in the old country doesn't stay in the old country. Obviously not all Ukranians are vicious anti-semites but on the other hand I'm not letting my guard down.

The complicated history between the Ukraine and Russia likely contributes to the sensitivity about Safin's remarks but seriously lighten up and stop being so PC, it was a joke.

TennisGrandSlam
10-18-2006, 06:45 AM
To the russians and europeans out there, why did Safin make such a big deal about Davydenko being from the Ukraine in their Moscow final? Isn't Davydenko listed as a Russian on the atp profile? Or did they really mean soviet?

Very interesting!

Tatar Russian vs Ukraian Russian :devil:

Primal
10-18-2006, 06:51 AM
If a last name ends with -adze or -villi, you can assume the person has Georgian roots.

Sorry for off topic, but -adze is wrong, while -dze iz right, as well as -villi is wrong, while -shvili is right. Both of this endings mean son/child in Georgia.

Thanks.


And of course Safin's words were just a joke. You know.. Safin's joke :D

TennisGrandSlam
10-18-2006, 06:54 AM
Generally, last names ending with -enko imply Ukrainian descent. If a last name ends with -adze or -villi, you can assume the person has Georgian roots. People from Latvia often have first and last names ending with an -s.

I'm sure there are more rules of thumb concerning last names in former Soviet states. What is the deal with -in(a) and -ov(a) for example? Are they also from different regions/countries?


-ian => Amernian descent

Nalbandian

Agassi(-ian) - son of Amernian Iranian

kiro
10-18-2006, 08:07 AM
About Davydenko.
He was born in Ukraine, as a Soviet citizen, choosed to play for Russia and considers himself a Russian, but lives in Germany and is practicing there.

This is from his ATP blog, dated September 15, 2006:
After the Davis Cup in Moscow, next week, I will take two week’s rest and return home back to Germany. When I say home, I consider Germany to be home. I will spend time there practicing and buy a house in Germany near the Belgian border.

mer
10-18-2006, 08:35 AM
The complicated history between the Ukraine and Russia likely contributes to the sensitivity about Safin's remarks
Actually no. A lot of ethnic Ukrainians live in russia and ethnic russians live in Ukraine. And despite some conflicts between governments there is absolutely no negative feelings for ukranians in russia and I suppose no negative feeligs for russians in East part of Ukraine (western part is more 'nationalistic' and they probaby don't like russians much).

lilimi80
10-18-2006, 08:54 AM
i think it was a JOKE! moreover, it seems that marat said the same thing during the trophy ceremony, kolya was there and he didn't kill marat, so...just a joke!

¿esquímaux?
10-18-2006, 08:56 AM
Marat, don't be sore babe :kiss: