Difference between race rankings and world rankings [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Difference between race rankings and world rankings

General Suburbia
10-13-2006, 07:50 PM
There must be something I don't understand that everyone else does. I posted something about this before, but wanted to make a proper thread for this:

:confused: At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world.
I dont think some people realize that the race ranking will be next year begining rankings. The only difference will be the top 8 players in the TMC will be able to add to their ranking points since there's 750 ranking points to grab or 150 race points.
I don't quite get how that works. How does the rankings system then balance itself out? I'm probably wrong, but explain this to me.

Let's say Nalbandian doesn't get into the TMC but still stays #4 in the world. Since he wasn't able to qualify in the Master's Cup, does that mean next year he starts outside of the top 8 in the world? What happened to all his points he accumulated in the progress? Do they just disappear to take him outside of the top 8? According to the ATPtennis.com faq, the race only determines the world #1.

I'm pretty sure there's a difference between the race points and the [World Ranking] Indesit ATP rankings. I was under the impression that the race only determined who qualified for the Master's Cup, not specifically a player's overall Rankings. Roddick's current ATP rank is 6. If he overcomes Ljubo in the race rankings, does that mean next year he starts out at #3? The only way I see this not happening is if the year-end rankings determined by the race suddenly drop and everything is shifted back to normal the beginning of next year.

Unless you're talking about something else entirely and not distinguishing between ATP world rank and the ATP race rankings.

Indesit World rankings: http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/rankings/entrysystem/
ATP race rankings: http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/rankings/championsrace/

Anyone care to explain properly for me? With the thread about Roddick's about to become year-end #3, I started getting confused about my understanding of race rankings.

El Legenda
10-13-2006, 07:53 PM
Race pts are done by season
Entry is 52 weeks..but at end of year...he 52 weeks line up with the 1 season :lol: does that help.

1 race pt = 5 entry pts :lol:

Johnny Groove
10-13-2006, 07:55 PM
sure :)



The race points are the amount of points that a player has earned THIS YEAR, IE from January 1- present. The entry ranking points are the amount of points from the last 365 days, meaning the last few tourneys from 05 are still on the table for entry ranking points.

For example, this is why you see berdych at #15 in the race, but #11 in the rankings due to his win in Paris last year

General Suburbia
10-13-2006, 08:18 PM
I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."

Boris Franz Ecker
10-13-2006, 08:28 PM
As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."

Can be wrong in rare cases.

El Legenda
10-13-2006, 08:30 PM
I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."


Nobody cares about the Race until the US Open....

entry is used for seeding and getting into tournys..

Race is only used at end to see who are the top 8 players in that year..that go on to play in the Tennis Master Cup :wavey:

LCeh
10-13-2006, 08:37 PM
I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."

These two ranking systems serve different purposes. Before the USOpen, the race is almost completely worthless, since there is still so much tennis to be played. However, after that, it gives you a pretty good picture of how the players have been doing in the current calender year so far, as it doesn't have any points from the previous year, so there are no points to defend, no points come off, and players simply add points as they earn them.

The entry system gives you an idea of how the players have done in the past year (52 weeks), and it's the ranking that's used for seeding. You can't go wrong with this system in general, but if you just want to isolate this year's achievement, and not counting the previous year, then you can go to the race.

After TMC is played, the past 52 weeks (entry system) is virtually the same as the race, since nobody plays anymore in mid November/December of the previous year, so the previous 52 weeks is basically same as the current calender year.

Lee
10-13-2006, 08:40 PM
After TMC is played, the past 52 weeks (entry system) is virtually the same as the race, since nobody plays anymore in mid November/December of the previous year, so the previous 52 weeks is basically same as the current calender year.

race points don't include challengers etc but ranking points do.

Apemant
10-13-2006, 10:20 PM
I know all that, but my question is, why does everyone treat the race rankings as the official rankings? Does the race rankings have any effect on the world rankings? Because everyone here seems to treat it that way.

As quoted in the initial post, Skyward said "At the end of the year № 3 in the race is the # 3 ranked player in the world."


Skyward is correct. Just before TMC, race and entry lists will be the same, at least for top players. Lower ranked ones will be slightly different as race system doesn't count challengers. Since no top 10 player would waste time on challengers, it is pretty safe to assume this:

- right before TMC, top 10 race will be the same as top 10 entry (because at that point both systems would include points from this year's tournaments)

Right after TMC, players who participated in it have a chance to improve their entry ranking at the beginning of the next year, as demonstrated by Nalbandian who barely qualified for TMC last year but surged to #4 by winning it.

Lee
10-13-2006, 10:31 PM
Ljubicic make TMC last year but he also played a challenger because it's in Croatia.

Apemant
10-14-2006, 08:20 AM
Ljubicic make TMC last year but he also played a challenger because it's in Croatia.

Ugh, yep, forgot about that. A rare example of a year end top 10 playing a challenger earlier in the year.

Still, since Luby had 7 better results at the ATP level that year, winning the Zagreb challenger didn't affect his entry system points. So at the end of the year, before TMC, race and entry were still the same for him (just divide entry points by 5 and you get race points, in that case).