Will Nadal defend his title in Madrid? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will Nadal defend his title in Madrid?

supersexynadal
10-07-2006, 02:09 PM
will he?? :eek:

YES!!:devil:

Thoughts?

Rogiman
10-07-2006, 02:11 PM
No :shrug:

Johnny Groove
10-07-2006, 02:14 PM
no doubt :rocker2:

stebs
10-07-2006, 02:15 PM
I don't think so but he certainly could. Not been on form lately but where better to get back on track than his own countries biggest event.

silverwhite
10-07-2006, 02:16 PM
Depends on the draw he gets :shrug:

Johnny Groove
10-07-2006, 02:17 PM
I'd like to see him do well in Stockholm tho. If that damn draw would ever be published, I could see what hes doing.

Johnny Groove
10-07-2006, 02:17 PM
Depends on the draw he gets :shrug:

Or, more to the point, what magic potion Tio Toni gives to the organizers

DrJules
10-07-2006, 02:24 PM
Depends on the draw he gets :shrug:

Maybe:

Tursunov 2 nd round, Berdych 3rd, Blake Qtr Final, Roddick Semi-final and Federer final. That would really tell us how good Nadal is on an indoor hardcourt.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I expect Nadal will have a much easier draw:sad:

Jaffas85
10-07-2006, 02:26 PM
Not sure but I really hope theres another Federer-Nadal final.

I'd like to see players like Murray, Gasquet and Baghdatis do well at Madrid.

Baghdatis especially as doing well at Madrid could really consolidate his claim to qualify for the Tennis Masters Cup.

supersexynadal
10-07-2006, 02:27 PM
Or, more to the point, what magic potion Tio Toni gives to the organizers
:lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe he'll spike everyones drinks.

I think he will. Its psychological more than anything.

stebs
10-07-2006, 02:30 PM
Not sure but I really hope theres another Federer-Nadal final.

I'd like to see players like Murray, Gasquet and Baghdatis do well at Madrid.

Baghdatis especially as doing well at Madrid could really consolidate his claim to qualify for the Tennis Masters Cup.

Agree about Murray. He is good indoors so he should be able to pick up some decent points at Madrid and Paris.

Sunset of Age
10-07-2006, 02:34 PM
How much I'd love to see him manage to defend his title, I think this one will be for Rogelio...

(and I hope the crowd manages to BEHAVE, btw...)

~EMiLiTA~
10-07-2006, 02:35 PM
i doubt it :(

landoud
10-07-2006, 02:50 PM
Depends on the draw he gets :shrug:
agree

RonE
10-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Depends on the draw he gets :shrug:

Meaning he no doubt will considering the lame draws he gets :p

Kalliopeia
10-07-2006, 03:11 PM
Oh come on. You know that no matter WHAT kind of draw he gets, everyone will talk about his shamefully easy draw. That's pretty much a given.

I think he can do it. He's going to have the crowd solidly behind him and that always gives him a boost.

I'd love to see Marcos do well, too. Has anyone heard anything about his injury?

tennisgal_001
10-07-2006, 04:10 PM
I doubt it. I mean he's definitely capable, but I think a lot of players will be out to get him, so he should watch out. The crowd will probably get him to the QF/SF, but I doubt anyone will choke again as bad as Ljubo did last year.

Jaffas85
10-07-2006, 04:13 PM
I actually think Federer will be quite eager to take this title as it is a Masters Series tournament that not only has he not won before but he hasn't even participated in since 2003.

So I think that after Madrid we should see Federer's ranking points go up to about 7800. *Should be a little over 7300 after winning Japan Open*.

NeverSayDie
10-07-2006, 04:22 PM
I REALLY hope Rafa defends his title. I predict a very long and gruelling five set thriller final against Fed. Which Nadal wins. Hopefully. ;)

Jadranka
10-07-2006, 04:25 PM
i hope - no :)

silverarrows
10-07-2006, 04:39 PM
I doubt it.

A_Skywalker
10-07-2006, 04:43 PM
He will of course , its Rafalito , hes the best !

prima donna
10-07-2006, 05:58 PM
No.

Checho
10-07-2006, 06:06 PM
If Federer doesn't play, maybe. If the King Roger plays, Nadal has no chance.

Johnny Groove
10-07-2006, 06:28 PM
the rafa-hating here is so bad, that 5 people actually think coria will beat him :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
10-07-2006, 06:29 PM
Coria isn't playing in the event.

Checho
10-07-2006, 06:39 PM
the rafa-hating here is so bad, that 5 people actually think coria will beat him :rolleyes:

Only an insane person can think that. I'm a huge fan of Coria, in fact he is my favourite player, but he doesn't have any chance of beating Nadal.

Maybe the Coria of 2003/2004 would have a small chance, but the current Coria has to be grateful if he can win a couple of games against Rafa.

Merton
10-07-2006, 06:48 PM
Rafa winning in Madrid last year was a hell of a surprise for me, exceeded only by him making the final at Wimbledon. He is definitely not the favourite, but it would not be wise to rule him out.

NYCtennisfan
10-07-2006, 06:54 PM
Depends upon the draw really, but if he hits his FH and returns serve the way he did in Canada, Cincy, and NYC, he could lose to a large number of players. It will be difficult to get an easy draw at a TMS event provided that most of the players are there.

World Beater
10-07-2006, 06:55 PM
the rafa-hating here is so bad, that 5 people actually think coria will beat him :rolleyes:

:awww:

if nadal can get a draw consisting of ginepri, and robredo et al...im sure rafa will be able to defend!:D

there's no such thing as an easy draw in a tms when all the players are playing the event.

the tournies last year had some significant withdrawals...if rafa can beat the best indoors, he will certainly deserve the praise.

PamV
10-07-2006, 06:56 PM
It could go either way......but it will depend on the draw.

rofe
10-07-2006, 06:59 PM
the rafa-hating here is so bad, that 5 people actually think coria will beat him :rolleyes:

:bigcry: :crying2:

robinhood
10-07-2006, 07:16 PM
I think no.
Then again he's surprised me several times, I wouldn't be totally shocked if he won it again.

Halba
10-08-2006, 05:20 AM
:drink: :smoke: he might lose 1st round or 2nd round..the boy can't play against quality opposition on a hard court

Regenbogen
10-08-2006, 06:02 AM
No I don't think so...if he even makes it far enough, he will lose to Federer. I think he'll get to quarters or semis

Deivid23
10-08-2006, 09:56 AM
Unlikely

supersexynadal
10-08-2006, 09:59 AM
Coria isn't playing in the event.

Yea i put that in there to test the tards:o

Anyway,

Rogelio will be VERY determned to win this considering he hasnt won it or played it in 2 ears but i dont think there are enough memories for him in madrid to win it. For Rafa, just going back and remembering those moments will gives him a big plus over rogelio. I dont think there ANY way Nadal can lose in a fina against roger with a spanish crowd like that who re NOT arrogent!

canbera
10-08-2006, 04:04 PM
Roger is going to play Madrid, and he is going to take the Title I think. I mean, why does Rafael Nadal play in Basel for example? He could play Lyon or St. Petersburg, but he wants to prevent Federer from winning the Title in his home country. And it will be the same with Madrid.

stebs
10-08-2006, 05:30 PM
For Rafa, just going back and remembering those moments will gives him a big plus over rogelio. I dont think there ANY way Nadal can lose in a fina against roger with a spanish crowd like that who re NOT arrogent!

Yes but that is more than cancelled out by the advantage Federer will have due to the surface. This court will suit Roger very much. Of course Nadal isn't invincible in front of a Spanish crowd. :lol:

DrJules
10-08-2006, 06:11 PM
Of course Nadal isn't invincible in front of a Spanish crowd. :lol:

Rather like Federer playing Blake in New York and facing the J Block.

supersexynadal
10-08-2006, 08:42 PM
Yes but that is more than cancelled out by the advantage Federer will have due to the surface. This court will suit Roger very much. Of course Nadal isn't invincible in front of a Spanish crowd. :lol:

of course the surface gives federer the edge but in the case, nadals psychological advantage is MUCH MUCH bigger. The postive energy from the place itself. I was actually there and i was probably the only non spanish person. I knew hed win it from round one and i always get skeptical with predicting but there was just no way he could have lost that final.
The spanish crowd is definately more into it than the americans. The american are just there to cause a hassle and make noise:rolleyes:

Halba
10-08-2006, 09:53 PM
of course the surface gives federer the edge but in the case, nadals psychological advantage is MUCH MUCH bigger. The postive energy from the place itself. I was actually there and i was probably the only non spanish person. I knew hed win it from round one and i always get skeptical with predicting but there was just no way he could have lost that final.
The spanish crowd is definately more into it than the americans. The american are just there to cause a hassle and make noise:rolleyes:

No psychological advantage anymore.

FEDERER D. NADAL

2006 wimbledon?

the rivalry is over (on fast court's anyway) , Fed is better than Nadal on a fast court.

Johnny Groove
10-08-2006, 10:34 PM
No psychological advantage anymore.

FEDERER D. NADAL

2006 wimbledon?

the rivalry is over (on fast court's anyway) , Fed is better than Nadal on a fast court.

o yes, the rivalry is over because Fed beat Nadal at Wimbly in a 4 setter. Forget all that stuff in Miami and Dubai. Wimbly is all that matters :rolleyes:

GlennMirnyi
10-08-2006, 11:00 PM
If the courts remains incredibly slow and he gets another of his always ultra-easy draws, there a good possibility. If a non-moonballer gets his chance against him, then it will be completely different.

mangoes
10-08-2006, 11:20 PM
Depends on the draw he gets :shrug:

Yep...........so, yes, I think he'll defend his title:cool: :cool: :devil: :cool:

oschemi
10-08-2006, 11:50 PM
No psychological advantage anymore.

FEDERER D. NADAL

2006 wimbledon?

the rivalry is over (on fast court's anyway) , Fed is better than Nadal on a fast court.

:retard: :retard: :retard:

doris_hdz
10-09-2006, 12:00 AM
I think no.

Macbrother
10-09-2006, 12:24 AM
Really looking forward to a Nadal-Federer final there in Madrid. I think it's a little to early to say if Nadal's "advantage" over Federer is gone or not, yes Federer beat him, but that was on his surface, grass; Madrid will be a much more neutral surface. I don't see anyone knocking Federer out and Nadal will surely be motivated in Spain; so here's to hoping.

supersexynadal
10-09-2006, 11:22 AM
No psychological advantage anymore.

FEDERER D. NADAL

2006 wimbledon?

the rivalry is over (on fast court's anyway) , Fed is better than Nadal on a fast court.

Woah...what ur saying basically means that the rivalry is over and nadal reached his peak and hes goind down AS FEDERER AGES!! Umm i think u should look forward a bit.

Byrd
10-09-2006, 12:49 PM
Off topic a bit, but is Madrid on carpet?

kindablue
10-09-2006, 12:56 PM
He will lose to Coria ( I know he 's not paying) :p

stebs
10-09-2006, 01:31 PM
Off topic a bit, but is Madrid on carpet?

Indoor hardcourts.

GlennMirnyi
10-09-2006, 05:06 PM
Off topic a bit, but is Madrid on carpet?

Blue clay.

revolution
10-09-2006, 05:07 PM
Fast indoor surface helped by the altitude. LaLo did well in Gstaad cause of it.

GlennMirnyi
10-09-2006, 05:08 PM
Fast indoor surface helped by the altitude. LaLo did well in Gstaad cause of it.

Fast? Are you kidding?

cecilija
10-09-2006, 05:11 PM
no never more

last year he getted lucky .and now he is done :)

revolution
10-09-2006, 05:14 PM
Fast? Are you kidding?

No. Obviously it's going to be quick if it's at altitude.

GlennMirnyi
10-09-2006, 05:18 PM
No. Obviously it's going to be quick if it's at altitude.

Wrong. High altitude only diminishes air resistance, it doesn't change the court speed.

Pfloyd
10-09-2006, 09:16 PM
Yes, he'll defend it.

Nadal has bad tournament streak and all of a sudden he becomes a "good average HC player", please, lets be realistic here, if he's one his game, he can beat anyone, regardless of the surface.

Adler
10-09-2006, 09:20 PM
Spectators will kill every Nadal's opponent right after he appears on court. They'll do it even better than those Agassi-devoted yankees at USO :D

rofe
10-09-2006, 09:24 PM
Fast indoor surface helped by the altitude. LaLo did well in Gstaad cause of it.

I may be wrong but it is slower than the courts used for the USO series. It causes the ball to bounce higher too.

stebs
10-10-2006, 09:38 AM
Yes, he'll defend it.

Nadal has bad tournament streak and all of a sudden he becomes a "good average HC player", please, lets be realistic here, if he's one his game, he can beat anyone, regardless of the surface.

He is nothing more than a 'good' HC player. Would you argue that he is a legend? No, he cannot beat anyone, on a fast hardcourt a big hitter on form is always favourite. I respect Nadal but he hasn't acheived miracles on hardcourts. He won Montreal which is very good but in Paris he was hit off court by Ljubo who choked when it came to the crunch, the crowd carried him through that match which is all very well but does not prove he can beat anyone.

Things haven't changed, if he meets someone with a big serve and good strokes who is willing to hit big and volley well for a while Nadal will be favourite to get knocked out.

oz_boz
10-10-2006, 09:53 AM
I think he will defend his title.

ginnylegend
10-10-2006, 10:09 AM
He'll certainly put up a strong defence with that crowd on his side.

predator
10-10-2006, 10:53 AM
absolutely but fans plays an important role

Pfloyd
10-10-2006, 11:55 AM
He is nothing more than a 'good' HC player. Would you argue that he is a legend? No, he cannot beat anyone, on a fast hardcourt a big hitter on form is always favourite. I respect Nadal but he hasn't acheived miracles on hardcourts. He won Montreal which is very good but in Paris he was hit off court by Ljubo who choked when it came to the crunch, the crowd carried him through that match which is all very well but does not prove he can beat anyone.

Things haven't changed, if he meets someone with a big serve and good strokes who is willing to hit big and volley well for a while Nadal will be favourite to get knocked out.

The crowd helped Nadal in that match, sure. But LJubo didnt choke, Nadal won that. He has beaten Ljubicic various times on HC too. Nadal has beaten Ancic in Wimbledon.

I disagree with the notion that any on form hard hitter is favorite against Nadal. This would mean that a long list of players can beat Nadal regardless of how good Nadal is playing. I believe the biggest upset for Rafa this year was his loss to Misha at the U.S open. Misha played unbelievably, but Rafa out right screwed up in the the thrid set, in the second set point.

Perhaps Blake and Berdych are favorite against him at the moment, but definetly not Ljubicic, Nalbandian, Roddick (yes I'll keep insisting on him) or Federer (YES, Federer, as there head 2 head favores Rafa). That just IMO.

Rafalution
10-10-2006, 12:08 PM
The past few season, Real Madrid players like Becks, Ronaldo, raul, Robinho, Casillas etc would go watch him play to support him (just like when rafa goes to the bernabeu to support his club) Robinho told rafa that there's a chance they won't be able to go this year. I hope a few of them still go, like the other people here said, fans are important

Rogiman
10-10-2006, 12:10 PM
Yes, the Generalisimo's favorite club taking part in that display of nationalism is only fitting.

bokehlicious
10-10-2006, 12:14 PM
The crowd helped Nadal in that match, sure. But LJubo didnt choke, Nadal won that. He has beaten Ljubicic various times on HC too. Nadal has beaten Ancic in Wimbledon.

I disagree with the notion that any on form hard hitter is favorite against Nadal. This would mean that a long list of players can beat Nadal regardless of how good Nadal is playing. I believe the biggest upset for Rafa this year was his loss to Misha at the U.S open. Misha played unbelievably, but Rafa out right screwed up in the the thrid set, in the second set point.

Perhaps Blake and Berdych are favorite against him at the moment, but definetly not Ljubicic, Nalbandian, Roddick (yes I'll keep insisting on him) or Federer (YES, Federer, as there head 2 head favores Rafa). That just IMO.


So Nadal is favorite vs Roger on any surface ? :confused:

:yeah: keep up the nice stuff :retard:

Pfloyd
10-10-2006, 01:25 PM
So Nadal is favorite vs Roger on any surface ? :confused:

:yeah: keep up the nice stuff :retard:

Did I mention grass? You moron.

As far as there H2H goes, yes, Nadal is favorite both on clay and hard court. Nadal lead Federer on clay 4-0. Nadal leads Federer on HC 2-1. On grass Nadal losses 0-1.

If Federer wants to be considered favorite agaisnt Nadal on HC he has to reverse his losing record against Nadal on that surface.

bokehlicious
10-10-2006, 01:28 PM
If Federer wants to be considered favorite agaisnt Nadal on HC he has to reverse his losing record against Nadal on that surface.


:shrug: Too bad Roger won't have many opportunities to reverse the record as Nadal almost never reaches HC finals anymore... :sad:

Pfloyd
10-10-2006, 01:31 PM
:shrug: Too bad Roger won't have many opportunities to reverse the record as Nadal almost never reaches HC finals anymore... :sad:

Don't worry about that, because the few times Nadal reaches HC tournament finals, or most finals for that matter, he beats Federer....

bokehlicious
10-10-2006, 01:33 PM
Don't worry about that, because the few times Nadal reaches HC tournament finals, or most finals for that matter, he beats Federer....

If in the meantime Roger lifts numerous HC trophies, that sounds good to me :cool:

Pfloyd
10-10-2006, 01:34 PM
If in the meantime Roger lifts numerous HC trophies, that sounds good to me :cool:

Fair enough.

stebs
10-10-2006, 02:55 PM
The crowd helped Nadal in that match, sure. But LJubo didnt choke, Nadal won that. He has beaten Ljubicic various times on HC too. Nadal has beaten Ancic in Wimbledon.

Yes okay, I can agree with the fact that Ljubo didn't choke in that his mind isn't what stopped him winning but Rafa played solid for 5 sets. When Ljubo was playing good indoors Rafa cannot keep up, he simply isn't as good on that surface.

Also, Rafa is 2-1 on hardcourts against Ljubo with everyone going to a fifth set. If they met in a match indoor before a final (meaning the match is a three setter) Ljubo is clear favourite in my book and I would be surprised to see Rafa win.

What of Rafa beating Ancic? That was merely the third of three straight defeats on grass, the other two were straight sets losses to Dupuis and Cristophe Rochus. All three of them were outside the top 70 at the time, Ancic was totally out of sorts. He followed up that loss with a loss to outside the top 100 Ivo Heuberger.

I disagree with the notion that any on form hard hitter is favorite against Nadal. This would mean that a long list of players can beat Nadal regardless of how good Nadal is playing. I believe the biggest upset for Rafa this year was his loss to Misha at the U.S open. Misha played unbelievably, but Rafa out right screwed up in the the thrid set, in the second set point.

You can disagree with it but the evidence all points toward it being true. They have to play well, don't get me wrong, Rafa can certainly win tournaments on hard courts. We've seen him do it beating very good players. However, when a good big hitter is on form Rafa is out hit. We have seen it over and over again. It is a fault with Rafa's playing style, everyone is vulnerable against something.

Perhaps Blake and Berdych are favorite against him at the moment, but definetly not Ljubicic, Nalbandian, Roddick (yes I'll keep insisting on him) or Federer (YES, Federer, as there head 2 head favores Rafa). That just IMO.

You think Rafa is favourite against Federer on a hardcourt on an indoor court? That's a little silly, sure he has the H-2-H but Federer is the best hardcourt player in the world. He has won 5 of the last 6 hardcourt slams. No way can Rafa be called favourite against him.

No offence but it seems to me your opinion is slightly shrouded by bias.

I may be a fan of Federer but I do not unduly criticize Rafa as I'm sure you'll know if you regularly visit these forums. I think he's a very good player but on a hardcourt he is a good player, nothing more.

Pfloyd
10-10-2006, 03:11 PM
Yes okay, I can agree with the fact that Ljubo didn't choke in that his mind isn't what stopped him winning but Rafa played solid for 5 sets. When Ljubo was playing good indoors Rafa cannot keep up, he simply isn't as good on that surface.

Also, Rafa is 2-1 on hardcourts against Ljubo with everyone going to a fifth set. If they met in a match indoor before a final (meaning the match is a three setter) Ljubo is clear favourite in my book and I would be surprised to see Rafa win.

What of Rafa beating Ancic? That was merely the third of three straight defeats on grass, the other two were straight sets losses to Dupuis and Cristophe Rochus. All three of them were outside the top 70 at the time, Ancic was totally out of sorts. He followed up that loss with a loss to outside the top 100 Ivo Heuberger.



You can disagree with it but the evidence all points toward it being true. They have to play well, don't get me wrong, Rafa can certainly win tournaments on hard courts. We've seen him do it beating very good players. However, when a good big hitter is on form Rafa is out hit. We have seen it over and over again. It is a fault with Rafa's playing style, everyone is vulnerable against something.



You think Rafa is favourite against Federer on a hardcourt on an indoor court? That's a little silly, sure he has the H-2-H but Federer is the best hardcourt player in the world. He has won 5 of the last 6 hardcourt slams. No way can Rafa be called favourite against him.

No offence but it seems to me your opinion is slightly shrouded by bias.

I may be a fan of Federer but I do not unduly criticize Rafa as I'm sure you'll know if you regularly visit these forums. I think he's a very good player but on a hardcourt he is a good player, nothing more.

Hell yeah I can be biased at times, and I'll admit it.

But people talk about Rafa as if he's done developing his game, and that is simply not true. I dont have to remind you that at Rafa's age, Federer did not have 2 GS's. Yeah Rafa has trouble against big hitters, but I believe he will overcome that.

As far as the Federer thing goes, sorry, cant agree with you there. Yeah Federer is a great HC player, probably the best ever, but Nadal was the player that snatched his 54 staright HC winning streak. That just shows you that when Nadal is on, he has glimpses of brilliance on HC, all he has to do is maintain that brilliance (Which is no small task mind you).

But I belivee Rafa to be more than a mere "good HC player" based on the mere fact that he has more HC tournament than Nalbandian , I believe he is tied with blake, etc, etc. He is consistent enough that he can win more HC tournaments than other good HC players, but still lacks the consistency to be as domnant as Federer is in the surface.

bokehlicious
10-10-2006, 03:21 PM
As far as the Federer thing goes, sorry, cant agree with you there. Yeah Federer is a great HC player, probably the best ever, but Nadal was the player that snatched his 54 staright HC winning streak. That just shows you that when Nadal is on, he has glimpses of brilliance on HC, all he has to do is maintain that brilliance (Which is no small task mind you).

Murray beat Roger on hardcourt as well this year. Is this defeat that a big deal ? No. Neither is Dubai :shrug: Federer is not unbeatable, many players have the weapons to push him on a good day, Nadal is far from being the only one.....

Pfloyd
10-10-2006, 05:17 PM
Murray beat Roger on hardcourt as well this year. Is this defeat that a big deal ? No. Neither is Dubai :shrug: Federer is not unbeatable, many players have the weapons to push him on a good day, Nadal is far from being the only one.....

He played like shit when he played Murray. In Dubai Federer played pretty damn good. Now to say that Nadal is far from being the only one that is able to push Federer around, that's BS, Nadal is probably one of the only ones, along with an In-form Safin, and a Level Headed Nalbanadian, maybe Djokovic that can beat Federer. Nadal 6-2 record is not a fluke.

bokehlicious
10-10-2006, 05:27 PM
Nadal 6-2 record is not a fluke.


We're talking about HC, hence their H-H on the surface is 2-1 ;)

And Roger brainfarted in Dubai, he played well but chocked when it counted the most...

rofe
10-10-2006, 05:38 PM
He played like shit when he played Murray. In Dubai Federer played pretty damn good. Now to say that Nadal is far from being the only one that is able to push Federer around, that's BS, Nadal is probably one of the only ones, along with an In-form Safin, and a Level Headed Nalbanadian, maybe Djokovic that can beat Federer. Nadal 6-2 record is not a fluke.

Based on the h2h, you could argue that Nadal has a handle on Fed on HC except that a 2-1 h2h is not an indication that he is going to win against Fed on HC all the time. In the HC season this year, Fed did his part to get to the finals in all of the HC tournaments he played (except Cincy) and Nadal could not keep his end of the bargain.

The 6-2 h2h is a reality because Fed kept his end of the bargain on clay and made the finals of all clay tournaments he played in.

If this trend continues in 2007 with Nadal winning against Fed on clay and not reaching the finals on HC then the h2h may be 10-2 or something but does that mean that Nadal owns Fed on all surfaces?

stebs
10-11-2006, 10:06 PM
But people talk about Rafa as if he's done developing his game, and that is simply not true.

Yeah Rafa has trouble against big hitters, but I believe he will overcome that.
More evidence to back me up today. This is Rafa's record off the red stuff since winning Dubai early in the year. It isn't bad at all and most players would be glad to have those results but they are no more than a good hard court player:

0 W
0 F
1 SF (Indian Wells)
1 QF (Cincinatti)
1 3rd Rd (Toronto)
2 2nd Rd (Miami, Stockholm)
0 1st Rd

We can compare them with another good hardcourt player, Blake, who has these results in the same time period:

2 W (Indianapolis, Bangkok)
1 F (Indian Wells)
0 SF
2 QF (US Open)
1 3rd Rd (Washington)
3 2nd Rd (Toronto, Cincinatti, New Haven)
0 1st Rd

I would say Blake's are superior. Maybe you will say that this is unfair as it count out Rafa winning Dubai and favours Blake due to this but it also counts out 2 tournament wins by Blake on hardcourts, Sydney and Las Vegas.

I will never try to say Rafa is an average player. He is fantastic on clay and even off it he has something about him but on hardcourts he is nothing special.

Flibbertigibbet
10-11-2006, 10:13 PM
But you're discounting the Grand Slams, where Nadal's had a final and a quarterfinal, and Blake a third round and a quarterfinal.

rofe
10-11-2006, 10:41 PM
But you're discounting the Grand Slams, where Nadal's had a final and a quarterfinal, and Blake a third round and a quarterfinal.

The Wimbly F doesn't count since stebs is talking about HC so they are on par in GS.

Rogiman
10-11-2006, 10:43 PM
The Wimbly F doesn't count since stebs is talking about HC so they are on par in GS.Well, to be fair he did mention Queens amongst his losses ;)

oz_boz
10-12-2006, 08:08 AM
More evidence to back me up today. This is Rafa's record off the red stuff since winning Dubai early in the year. It isn't bad at all and most players would be glad to have those results but they are no more than a good hard court player:

0 W
0 F
1 SF (Indian Wells)
2 QF (Cincinatti, Queens)
1 3rd Rd (Toronto)
2 2nd Rd (Miami, Stockholm)
0 1st Rd

We can compare them with another good hardcourt player, Blake, who has these results in the same time period:

2 W (Indianapolis, Bangkok)
1 F (Indian Wells)
0 SF
2 QF (US Open)
1 3rd Rd (Washington)
3 2nd Rd (Toronto, Cincinatti, New Haven)
0 1st Rd

I would say Blake's are superior. Maybe you will say that this is unfair as it count out Rafa winning Dubai and favours Blake due to this but it also counts out 2 tournament wins by Blake on hardcourts, Sydney and Las Vegas.

I will never try to say Rafa is an average player. He is fantastic on clay and even off it he has something about him but on hardcourts he is nothing special.

One could just as well include Dubai and the stats would be slightly in Blake's favour on hc.