Moya about Federer/Nadal's "league" [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Moya about Federer/Nadal's "league"

DDrago2
09-30-2006, 08:14 PM
Things were different in the ?90s,? the Spaniard reminisced. ?There were quite a few great players like Sampras, (Boris) Becker, (Andre) Agassi, (Patrick) Rafter with virtually the same kind of skills. They were all in the same league. But today, there?s a big gap between the top two-three players and the rest. See Federer and Nadal. There is hardly anyone who can come close to them. (Sampras) was a class apart. Federer and Nadal are good, but not in his league.

This means that, according to Moya, Fed and Nadal are not in the league with Sampras, Agassi, Becker and Rafter. Do you understand why he thinks that?

Crip Walk Blunt
09-30-2006, 08:18 PM
He is right, that's what counts.:retard:

robinhood
09-30-2006, 08:39 PM
I distinctively remember seeing Moya saying that Federer might be better than Sampras or Agassi during 2004 TMC in Houston.
But that was almost two years ago, and of course we all know how much Fed has dipped since then.

scarecrows
09-30-2006, 09:17 PM
is Moya doing only interviews lately?

World Beater
09-30-2006, 09:28 PM
is Moya doing only interviews lately?

:haha:

:worship:

Ales_Alessandra
09-30-2006, 09:33 PM
is Moya doing only interviews lately?

:p

supersexynadal
09-30-2006, 09:48 PM
he doesnt mean federer and nadal arent in the class of sampras agassi. Hes just talking about the difference between the players who can threaten rafa and fed and the players who could threaten agassi/pete. m sure hes talking about the lack of competition and talent amongst players below number 2

wcr
09-30-2006, 10:10 PM
http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Moya%2C+Carlos&player2=federer

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Moya%2C+Carlos&player2=sampras

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Moya%2C+Carlos&player2=Rafter%2C+Patrick&playernum2=R255

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Moya%2C+Carlos&player2=Becker%2C+Boris&playernum2=B028

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Moya%2C+Carlos&player2=agassi

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Moya%2C+Carlos&player2=nadal

darnyelb
10-01-2006, 12:21 AM
I distinctively remember seeing Moya saying that Federer might be better than Sampras or Agassi during 2004 TMC in Houston.
But that was almost two years ago, and of course we all know how much Fed has dipped since then.

*snort!*

darnyelb
10-01-2006, 12:25 AM
This means that, according to Moya, Fed and Nadal are not in the league with Sampras, Agassi, Becker and Rafter. Do you understand why he thinks that?

I never understand why a player has to be assessed in terms of his contemporaries. It's not like Roger can build a time machine and go back to the early 80s and play with the likes of Borg, Connors, McEnroe etc.

Fergie
10-01-2006, 12:27 AM
is Moya doing only interviews lately?
Since he doesn't win matchs! :devil:

Johnny Groove
10-01-2006, 01:15 AM
I distinctively remember seeing Moya saying that Federer might be better than Sampras or Agassi during 2004 TMC in Houston.
But that was almost two years ago, and of course we all know how much Fed has dipped since then.

I know! he has really dipped in 05-06. Damn, 9 losses in 2 years? what a clown! ;)

Corey Feldman
10-01-2006, 01:18 AM
The lack of competition stuff is becoming a bit tiresome... there are still 128 players in the draw of a slam, the same as back in 'his day' as far as i know.

the best form player of that slam wins and earns it.
if it is so much easier now, then why isnt charlie winning a slam and reaching No1 like he did in the late 90's... he's not that old.

the only slight point he'd have is that there was alot more star names in the 90's ranking lists compared to now... but that was more of older generation who have now all gone, nowadays its all young up and coming players and the fall off in form from players like safin, hewitt, ferrero and roddick have made the last couple of years look a bit more one sided for him than it was... you cant dispute who Fed has beaten in his slam finals though - Philippoussis, Safin, Roddick x3, Hewitt, Agassi, Baghdatis and Nadal.

NadalMachine
10-01-2006, 01:31 AM
Moya is a total asshole for saying this kind of stuff publicly. Something must be wrong with his mind lately. I clearly remember he said Fed is a better play than Sampras a while ago.

Johnny Groove
10-01-2006, 01:50 AM
Carlos should keep this stuff to himself. And not say it OUT LOUD :p

Preston
10-01-2006, 01:50 AM
Of current players, Federer is in his own league. Nadal is not even there yet.

~*BGT*~
10-01-2006, 02:14 AM
Did Carlos just tell the truth... out loud? Oh my God. He must die now! :rolleyes:

World Beater
10-01-2006, 02:32 AM
i think carlos tried to say competition was better back in the 90's which is arguable...i dont think he means that sampras was a better player but that his achievements mean more in the context of competition.

of course he failed miserably in trying to say this.

Corey Feldman
10-01-2006, 03:00 AM
i think carlos tried to say competition was better back in the 90's which is arguable...i dont think he means that sampras was a better player but that his achievements mean more in the context of competition.

of course he failed miserably in trying to say this.Agreed.

but charlie is also president of the fanclub and original Rafatard as well to his lil pupil

:p

liptea
10-01-2006, 05:06 AM
I could have sworn...that we already had this thread.

atheneglaukopis
10-01-2006, 05:06 AM
the original Rafatard:lol: Too true.

liptea
10-01-2006, 06:45 AM
You're right, we did. :o

O RLY?!

Breakdown
10-01-2006, 07:58 AM
I know! he has really dipped in 05-06. Damn, 9 losses in 2 years? what a clown!

:haha: :haha: :bolt:
Never did a history of tennis know such a loser!:eek:

On a serious note, i bet Moya can give interviews left, right and center till the cows come home... there is a possibility that he's tired of winning all the time:angel: :p :worship:

Eden
10-01-2006, 09:24 AM
I could have sworn...that we already had this thread.

Yes, we had:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=86916&highlight=moya

Castafiore
10-01-2006, 09:25 AM
Why is it that a person can only speak his mind - according to some - when he's in his prime?

When is a player entitled to give his opinion according to MTF without facing the "OMG, what a loser" ridicule?

stebs
10-01-2006, 09:30 AM
This means that, according to Moya, Fed and Nadal are not in the league with Sampras, Agassi, Becker and Rafter. Do you understand why he thinks that?

No it doesn't. He is saying that Nadal and Federer are in that same league but that the rest of the challengers aren't.

Geniey2g
10-01-2006, 09:31 AM
I never understand why a player has to be assessed in terms of his contemporaries. It's not like Roger can build a time machine and go back to the early 80s and play with the likes of Borg, Connors, McEnroe etc.
Exactly. It's all relative, for goodness' sake.

ExpectedWinner
10-01-2006, 03:38 PM
Typical preretirement/retirement blues - my time was better than your time.

Corey Feldman
10-01-2006, 04:11 PM
Why would the original Rafatard be putting down both Federer AND Nadal in the same sentences?he's putting down the rest of the tour, most of which kick his old ass thesedays as well.

he's a typical rafatard, when Fed is on one of his winning streaks = piss poor competition.

when Fed has lost a recent match to Rafa = Fed is the greatest of all time, but Rafa can beat him!!!

:lol: idiots.

DrJules
10-01-2006, 04:22 PM
The one issue that is impossible to accurately resolve is whether the gap between Federer/ Nadal (I have grouped them together although sizeable gap around 500pts in ATP points race is bigger than advantage Nadal has in the race over number 3) and the best of the rest (Roddick, Nalbandian, Ljubicic, Blake etc) is because Federer/Nadal are just so good or if the best of the rest are so poor.


http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/rankings/championsrace/


Actually based on rankings Nadal is mostly ranked half way between number 1 and 3. Therefore, factually Federer is clear number 1, Nadal clear number 2 and then large number closely follow number 3.

nobama
10-01-2006, 05:19 PM
Why was the competition better in Sampras's prime? If Roger didn't exist would people be compaining that the tour is full of no talent clowns? Same thing in golf. If Tiger Woods didn't exist the PGA tour would be quite competitive. It's not that the guys there aren't any good, it's that Tiger is so much better, especially when he's in the "zone" like he is this week.

wimbledonfan
10-01-2006, 05:49 PM
Look at Martina Hingis and Serena Williams . There was a time when they were dominant but a lot had to do with the fact that there wasn't any competition for them . Now they are lost in the shuffle against all the great russian players .

Bjorn Borg was also dominant but then he started to face better competition towards the end of his career and called it quits . Nadal and Federer are playing in a time with less top ten calibre players than in the past . Blake is your # 6 player in the world and has only won 7 tour titles . Ivan Ljubicic and Nalbandian are top 5 players who have underperformed in majors .

Rafter > Nalbandian
Courier > Ivan Ljubicic
Agassi > Blake

DrJules
10-01-2006, 06:07 PM
Look at Martina Hingis and Serena Williams . There was a time when they were dominant but a lot had to do with the fact that there wasn't any competition for them . Now they are lost in the shuffle against all the great russian players .

Bjorn Borg was also dominant but then he started to face better competition towards the end of his career and called it quits . Nadal and Federer are playing in a time with less top ten calibre players than in the past . Blake is your # 6 player in the world and has only won 7 tour titles . Ivan Ljubicic and Nalbandian are top 5 players who have underperformed in majors .

Rafter > Nalbandian
Courier > Ivan Ljubicic
Agassi > Blake

I think you would find a fully fit Serena would dominate womens tennis the way Federer dominates mens tennis. Similarly without foot injuries Martina would probably be just behind Serena. I think the rest of the tour would have struggled to compete with them.

Borg to a large extent declined because he wanted to play less. This created 2 problems, firstly the tour required him to play more events and, secondly, you cannot compete at the highest level without full commitment.

The lack of grass courts has mean the quality and number of grass court players has been low since the 80's with McEnroe, Becker, Edberg and Cash past their best by the early 90's.

robinhood
10-01-2006, 06:55 PM
So wait - if Moya said that Federer might be better than Sampras/Agassi, how is it now such an insult to Roger to say that Roger doesn't have any real competition? Would someone better than Sampras/Agassi HAVE real competition at the moment? :p In fact, isn't he saying what Federer fans want to hear: that Roger is dominating because he's better, and not necessarily because everyone else just sucks? :shrug:

I really don't see what the issue is here. :zzz:

I don't care too much about what Moya has to say, but no, I don't think that was a compliment.
If he still thinks Fed is better than Sampras and Agassi, then he can just say that, not the whole crap about the competition or blah blah blah.

Mechlan
10-01-2006, 07:27 PM
So wait - if Moya said that Federer might be better than Sampras/Agassi, how is it now such an insult to Roger to say that Roger doesn't have any real competition? Would someone better than Sampras/Agassi HAVE real competition at the moment? :p In fact, isn't he saying what Federer fans want to hear: that Roger is dominating because he's better, and not necessarily because everyone else just sucks? :shrug:

I really don't see what the issue is here. :zzz:

I think his sudden change of tune from "Roger is perhaps the best ever" to "Roger and Rafa are good but not in Sampras' league" is what people are having trouble with. The lack of competition debate is one we'll not resolve until Federer retires or starts declining and we see who else picks up the GS titles instead of him.

Carlos has a right to his opinion (and maybe he's even right!), but I think we'd all like to know why he changed his mind.

Geniey2g
10-03-2006, 07:29 PM
Typical preretirement/retirement blues - my time was better than your time.
This is true.
I've noticed a worrying defeatist attitude in Moyá- he's always saying stuff like "Oh, there's no way I can get back to the top again" "Roger and Rafa are streets ahead of all the rest of us" "The young guys are too strong".
:rolleyes:
Please.

He needs to stop complaining and make the most of what he's got [left]- acting defeated never got anyone anywhere. http://www.the9elements.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/SMH.gif

Jade Fox
10-03-2006, 07:50 PM
Oh Carlos, I love you dearly but...

You really need to get over Rafa dumping you for Roger. Seriously, let it go man.:devil: ;)

Neverstopfightin
10-03-2006, 07:53 PM
This is true.
I've noticed a worrying defeatist attitude in Moyá- he's always saying stuff like "Oh, there's no way I can get back to the top again" "Roger and Rafa are streets ahead of all the rest of us" "The young guys are too strong".
:rolleyes:
Please.

Do you really read Moya's interviews ?? :rolleyes:

He usually says things very different from your " quotes " overrating his current level and potential , his comments are very far from the defeatism.

prima donna
10-03-2006, 10:42 PM
Moya needs to keep his mouth shut.

Geniey2g
10-05-2006, 08:44 AM
Do you really read Moya's interviews ?? :rolleyes:

He usually says things very different from your " quotes " overrating his current level and potential , his comments are very far from the defeatism.
Whatever. I have heard Moyá say these things on more than one occasion; why would I make it up? :scratch: