Davis Cup-the huge blemish on the Federer record [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Davis Cup-the huge blemish on the Federer record

sawan66278
09-27-2006, 04:41 AM
Watching the Davis Cup matches the past weekend, and watching an old clip of Boris Becker defeating Agassi from two sets to down in the 1989 Davis Cup got me thinking about Federer...his accomplishments in the Cup are mediocre at best...a real blemish on his career record...

His country has not been in a Cup final, and he only seems to play against the weaker teams...why? I know the Cup is not taken as seriously in his home country, but let's be honest, ALL the greats have incredible accomplishments in Davis Cup...except Federer...

Much time still to go, but in my mind, this is almost as great, if not greater than his not winning the French...

Sjengster
09-27-2006, 04:44 AM
Oh, good God. Wake me up when Madrid starts, hmm?

Johnny Groove
09-27-2006, 04:45 AM
If he wants to win DC, he'll have to beat Rafa on clay, and that'll never happen LOLZZLZLZL!!!11!!!!!111shift+1?!?!:rocker2:!?!?!

atheneglaukopis
09-27-2006, 04:46 AM
ALL the greats have incredible accomplishments in Davis Cup...except Federer...*nods vigorously* Nadal is the real number one.

sawan66278
09-27-2006, 04:52 AM
Lendl, McEnroe, Agassi, Sampras, Becker, Edberg, Wilander, Courier, Rafa...all Cup winners....

Roger...not yet...

Sjengster
09-27-2006, 04:53 AM
Actually, a couple of points:

1) He comes from by far the smallest and weakest tennis nation of any all-time great (the others are all American, Australian, Swedish or German). It's a team effort at the end of the day. Switzerland would never have made their sole semifinal appearance in 2003 if Kratochvil hadn't won the fifth rubber against Verkerk in the Netherlands, his only career victory in a live rubber I believe.

2) A 22-6 singles record at the age of 25 is not what I would call mediocre, particularly considering that he's won 16 of his last 17 singles matches in straight sets. But yes, you guessed it, the only sets he lost in that period were three in a row in the biggest DC match he's played, against Hewitt in Melbourne. Still, losing the doubles effectively ended Swiss chances there beforehand.

The only blemish in my mind is not his play in Davis Cup but his attitude towards it - skipping the World Group twice during his prime years must be enormously irritating for the Swiss, who know they're never going to have a player this great again who can get them so close to winning the whole thing. Saying "Well, I'll make it a priority later on in my career" isn't much comfort to the Swiss when you consider that there will be a time, through loss of form/career slump, when he won't guarantee two points just by showing up and playing. Stan the Man must also be one of the best no. 2 singles players Switzerland have ever had (bearing in mind Rosset and Hlasek would have been the no. 1s at the time they played, right?), so him and Federer together in the World Group could certainly take them far.

When he actually does play, though, there are few players who excel as much in DC as him. His record in the competition was really the first kind of consistency he displayed in tennis before he became no. 1, you could count on him to show up in away ties and beat very good players convincingly. I can't think of many other people who've handed out three breadsticks to Safin and Kafelnikov on clay in Moscow over a single weekend.

Sjengster
09-27-2006, 04:56 AM
Here's the list of straight-sets wins:

Safin
Kafelnikov
Arazi
El Aynaoui
Sluiter
Schalken
Escude
Santoro
Philippoussis
Hanescu
Pavel
Escude
Clement
Mackin
Tipsarevic
Djokovic

The last five of those were the only ones in home ties, BTW.

JW10S
09-27-2006, 04:56 AM
Lendl, McEnroe, Agassi, Sampras, Becker, Edberg, Wilander, Courier, Rafa...all Cup winners....

Roger...not yet...

The others listed above had supporting players to help them win the cup. Let's face it, the Swiss team is not very deep. Borg is the only one who was essentially a one man team when his team won the cup...so it is possible.

spencercarlos
09-27-2006, 05:08 AM
Watching the Davis Cup matches the past weekend, and watching an old clip of Boris Becker defeating Agassi from two sets to down in the 1989 Davis Cup got me thinking about Federer...his accomplishments in the Cup are mediocre at best...a real blemish on his career record...

His country has not been in a Cup final, and he only seems to play against the weaker teams...why? I know the Cup is not taken as seriously in his home country, but let's be honest, ALL the greats have incredible accomplishments in Davis Cup...except Federer...

Much time still to go, but in my mind, this is almost as great, if not greater than his not winning the French...
In your mind Davis Cup is greater for you than a grand slam event.. fine.
Im sure most people think the other way around.

rmb6687
09-27-2006, 05:12 AM
In your mind Davis Cup is greater for you than a grand slam event.. fine.
Im sure most people think the other way around.

Including, i'm sure, Roger Federer

World Beater
09-27-2006, 05:16 AM
Here's the list of straight-sets wins:

Safin
Kafelnikov
Arazi
El Aynaoui
Sluiter
Schalken
Escude
Santoro
Philippoussis
Hanescu
Pavel
Escude
Clement
Mackin
Tipsarevic
Djokovic

The last five of those were the only ones in home ties, BTW.


why do you even bother? the poster thinks that federer's 5 set record will tarnish his legacy forever. he's always looking for ways to slight roger. he's from the same school of thought as ays25

Hendu
09-27-2006, 05:27 AM
After Sjengster's posts, there are no reasons for this thread to exist.

The topic is over.

GlennMirnyi
09-27-2006, 05:39 AM
After Sjengster's posts, there are no reasons for this thread to exist.

The topic is over.

There's always a reason for something like that. Someone is stupid enough to pick up a subject like that.

Breakdown
09-27-2006, 05:42 AM
Much time still to go, but in my mind, this is almost as great, if not greater than his not winning the French...
Opinion on this may vary greatly, but winning the French for Roger is more important as it should be for every tennis player :devil:
According to your logic those who won FO and Davis Cup(Kafelnikov,Nadal,Moya) are better than Federer?
Pathetic :sad:

bokehlicious
09-27-2006, 09:40 AM
Is there a new arseclown contest coming soon ? :shrug: Just wondering... :scratch:

vincayou
09-27-2006, 09:45 AM
As Sjenster said, the main grief against him could be that he doesn't play it enough. But with Wawrinka now, he might play it more.

stebs
09-27-2006, 09:46 AM
Switzerland will have a good chance if they can win their first match in the world group without Roger which is possible with a good draw. If this happens then I think Federer will play the rest of the tournament and then there is a real chance for Switzerland.

FSRteam
09-27-2006, 09:50 AM
Watching the Davis Cup matches the past weekend, and watching an old clip of Boris Becker defeating Agassi from two sets to down in the 1989 Davis Cup got me thinking about Federer...his accomplishments in the Cup are mediocre at best...a real blemish on his career record...

His country has not been in a Cup final, and he only seems to play against the weaker teams...why? I know the Cup is not taken as seriously in his home country, but let's be honest, ALL the greats have incredible accomplishments in Davis Cup...except Federer...

Much time still to go, but in my mind, this is almost as great, if not greater than his not winning the French...

What the heck are you talking about?!?

Switzerland people are just dreaming to win DC. But it takes more than just one player to achieve that!

Every one knows that Davis Cup his a team game. You cannot win it by yourself!

Switzerland made the semi 3 years ago and went to the final about 10 years ago against the USA in USA so just shut the f... up!

Action Jackson
09-27-2006, 09:51 AM
Thread of the Year Nomination coming up.

Doris Loeffel
09-27-2006, 09:51 AM
Hmmm what was that countries name again facing the US in the 1992 final??
I know it wasn't Rogerland back then -

so please get your stats right when saying that Switzerland never made it to a final and will never as long as Roger skips the first round - the chances are still there even without Roger. And I still feel sorry for Stan loosing that match against Schalken last year - that was a great chance they had to reach the second round without Roger.

Also the tie this february agaisnt Australia was clouse - to bad Bastl couldn't handle Cucciones (where's that guy now??) huge serve.

FSRteam
09-27-2006, 10:46 AM
Hmmm what was that countries name again facing the US in the 1992 final??
I know it wasn't Rogerland back then -

so please get your stats right when saying that Switzerland never made it to a final and will never as long as Roger skips the first round - the chances are still there even without Roger. And I still feel sorry for Stan loosing that match against Schalken last year - that was a great chance they had to reach the second round without Roger.

Also the tie this february agaisnt Australia was clouse - to bad Bastl couldn't handle Cucciones (where's that guy now??) huge serve.

And I am sure that now, depending on the draw, stan and marco can win 1-2 points each. Plus maybe 1 pt with the double pair allegro/wawa!

As sjengster said if Switzerland manage to win the 1st round, I'm sure fed will play the other rounds!!!

I think he wants to see that the other swiss players are able to win also without him before trying to win the davis cup!

nobama
09-27-2006, 11:57 AM
Including, i'm sure, Roger FedererYeah and if other guys were chasing Sampras's GS record they'd probably feel the same way.

Norrage
09-27-2006, 12:37 PM
Switzerland should have pretty good chances this year with Wawrinka as a backup! :)

sawan66278
09-27-2006, 02:55 PM
Sorry about the oversight with respect to Switzerland making the Cup final before...bad mistake on my part...

The only reason I was thinking about this is because it appears, in my mind, that the Davis Cup is simply another example of Federer's "me attitude"...as Sjeng posted, Roger is missing or has missed quite a few years of his career where he has a great opportunity to win a Cup for his country...but, as he has stated, he really can't put forth the effort because he is winning so many slams...Please, give me a break...Davis Cup is one of the MOST PRESSURE FILLED atmospheres in sport...players who never crack the top 150 play like champions, and only the truly courageous prevail...Look at Roger's collapse against Hewitt ON GRASS...

And please don't cry me a river about how small Switzerland is...Roger, you can win the Cup for your country with the team you have...Don't make comments like you did this past weekend about how it was nice to carry the team to victory...Carry the team to the Cup and then talk :mad:

And for those of you who need examples of one-man team efforts, look at these three ties:

1. Australia defeats Sweden in 1986 behind PAT CASH. Link: http://www.daviscup.com/results/tieresult.asp?tie=10000702

2. Germany defeats Australia in 1993 behind MICHAEL STICH. Link: http://www.daviscup.com/results/tieresult.asp?tie=10000610

and

3. Germany defeats POWERHOUSE Sweden in 1989 behind B. Becker...Boris that is!!!! Link: http://www.daviscup.com/results/tieresult.asp?tie=10003829

Pea
09-27-2006, 02:56 PM
If only Rosset and Federer were both at their prime at the same time.;)

BaselineSmash
09-27-2006, 03:12 PM
...Look at Roger's collapse against Hewitt ON GRASS...



Federer's sole "collapse" against Hewitt on grass came in 2001.

Action Jackson
09-27-2006, 03:15 PM
Federer's sole "collapse" against Hewitt on grass came in 2001.

Yes, I was at that tie and it was on Rebound Ace in 2003.

I remember Federer leaving the court in tears.

adee-gee
09-27-2006, 03:17 PM
He comes from by far the smallest and weakest tennis nation of any all-time great (the others are all American, Australian, Swedish or German). It's a team effort at the end of the day. Switzerland would never have made their sole semifinal appearance in 2003 if Kratochvil hadn't won the fifth rubber against Verkerk in the Netherlands, his only career victory in a live rubber I believe.
Labadze comes from Georgia :awww:

Rogiman
09-27-2006, 03:24 PM
I hope he keeps ignoring this silly competition, the way any player who's capable of winning Slams should.

DC is for 2nd tier players.

Hendu
09-27-2006, 03:28 PM
I hope he keeps ignoring this silly competition, the way any player who's capable of winning Slams should.

DC is for 2nd tier players.

Funny stuff.

Neely
09-27-2006, 03:33 PM
So Federer has not won a Davis Cup title yet? His individual record is not a shame, normally you can only achieve so much as good as your team is. Sometimes there are exceptions. Davis Cup is part of these. If you have an outstanding player he can defeat another team single-handedly. The Swiss doubles is already good enough to win against many other pairs. So if Federer wants to win the Davis Cup some time, he has a realistic chance of winning it if he played his usual best.

Corey Feldman
09-27-2006, 03:40 PM
Its a pity Fed didnt play v AUS in rnd 1 this year as i think i seen somewhere that had they won that tie, they coulda played at home, and beat imo, BELARUS and ARG and be in the final.

as sjeng pointed out earlier in the thread its been to hard for him in a 1 man team in the last years... a perfect examle of this was in 2002 when on clay in moscow he utterly bitchslapped Kafelnikov and Safin both in three straight sets yet Sui lost the tie 3-2 to would be champions Russia.

he even beat Escude in straight sets one year and that is as impressive a result as possible
:p

sawan66278
09-27-2006, 04:20 PM
If you see the quotes and reactions of retired players, they almost always make note of their Davis Cup experiences...Nothing is like Davis Cup...Even Ivan Lendl, who eventually became a U.S. citizen, won a Cup...and mentioned his experience in interviews...

All I'm saying is that while Federer's singles record may be great, he has to yet to take his country anywhere near the promised land...Look at Boris Becker...he defeated a team with Edberg and Wilander, and won the Cup for Germany with...Eric Jelen :eek:

Roger, if he is a true patriot, and probably even if he is not, will regret these years he missed...I really don't understand why he continues to play only when he feels like it, and does not commit himself to playing...

When the top player in the world has such a "who cares" attitude about the Cup, it takes away from the whole...

Roger needs to remember how he felt this past weekend, and commit himself to leading his country to the Cup either this year or next...I would like to see him do it...

Sjengster
09-27-2006, 04:47 PM
Its a pity Fed didnt play v AUS in rnd 1 this year as i think i seen somewhere that had they won that tie, they coulda played at home, and beat imo, BELARUS and ARG and be in the final.

as sjeng pointed out earlier in the thread its been to hard for him in a 1 man team in the last years... a perfect examle of this was in 2002 when on clay in moscow he utterly bitchslapped Kafelnikov and Safin both in three straight sets yet Sui lost the tie 3-2 to would be champions Russia.

he even beat Escude in straight sets one year and that is as impressive a result as possible
:p

If I remember rightly, after Federer had beaten Safin in the opening match Krati served for victory against Kafelnikov in the second rubber but couldn't convert (his infamous serving problems coming to the fore again - remember the 17 double faults against Henman at Wimbledon that year?). That was all they would have needed to get through that round.

Sjengster
09-27-2006, 04:50 PM
If you see the quotes and reactions of retired players, they almost always make note of their Davis Cup experiences...Nothing is like Davis Cup...Even Ivan Lendl, who eventually became a U.S. citizen, won a Cup...and mentioned his experience in interviews...

All I'm saying is that while Federer's singles record may be great, he has to yet to take his country anywhere near the promised land...Look at Boris Becker...he defeated a team with Edberg and Wilander, and won the Cup for Germany with...Eric Jelen :eek:

Roger, if he is a true patriot, and probably even if he is not, will regret these years he missed...I really don't understand why he continues to play only when he feels like it, and does not commit himself to playing...

When the top player in the world has such a "who cares" attitude about the Cup, it takes away from the whole...

Roger needs to remember how he felt this past weekend, and commit himself to leading his country to the Cup either this year or next...I would like to see him do it...

Would you really, though? Judging by the constant flak that you throw at him on this board I reckon you'd be very happy indeed if he never got anywhere close to DC glory. I agree that the non-committal attitude has been disappointing for the last couple of years, but for heaven's sakes stop sizing him up against past greats when his career is only half-over. Come here in another 5 years' time and whine about his lack of achievement in DC if you must.

Corey Feldman
09-27-2006, 04:55 PM
If I remember rightly, after Federer had beaten Safin in the opening match Krati served for victory against Kafelnikov in the second rubber but couldn't convert (his infamous serving problems coming to the fore again - remember the 17 double faults against Henman at Wimbledon that year?). That was all they would have needed to get through that round.yeah...
wonder where old Krati is thesedays as well.

sawan66278
09-27-2006, 05:22 PM
I would like to see Roger win the cup, Why? Because Davis Cup is like no other competition...you are playing, not for individual glory, but team and country glory!!! There is something cool about seeing the #1 player in the world, from such a small country, able to defeat powerhouses like Argentina, Russia, and the U.S....