How much of their earnings do players keep? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

How much of their earnings do players keep?

RonE
08-25-2006, 05:09 PM
I have been wondering- considering a top player has a pretty big entourage on average- coach, trainer, physio, agent, stringer, sponsors etc etc- with everyone getting a slice of the pie, what percentage of their earnings on average do players cash in the bank at the end of the day?

Deboogle!.
08-25-2006, 05:18 PM
It's gonna be different for every single person depending on how much they pay their coach, agent, trainer, travel expenses when necessary, all that stuff. But chances are good, they are keeping way less than half of their prize money. Endorsements would be different b/c their coach, trainer, etc., have nothing to do with that. Then again, some coaches might have enough clout, that they could get a clause into their contract for ALL Earnings, especially if some endorsements are contingent upon their on-court performance.

And I think it's pretty well-known that a lot of lower-ranked players actually lose money a lot of tourneys they play :(

RonE
08-25-2006, 05:28 PM
Yes I gathered that might be the case with the lower ranked players.

As for endosrsments/appearance fees/commercials etc, wouldn't the agencies that have signed the player up also get a handsome portion of those?

Also, what about a player like Tommy Haas who was sponsored when he was learning how to play tennis since his family couldn't afford it? How much would the sponsors get off his earnings and would they get something from ALL of his earnings endorsments etc included?

croat123
08-25-2006, 05:29 PM
i don't see how players outside the top50 (unless they are like philippoussis and get a million wcs and have endorsement deals) make money at all. first there's taxes, then they have to pay their coaches, then they have to pay for travel (most top players probably don't), then they have to pay for hotels at some tournaments (again, most top players don't), and they might not even have clothing/racquet deals (ljubo didn't have a clothing deal for a while when he was making his run early in 2005).

Sjengster
08-25-2006, 05:32 PM
Something that makes you realise the essential stupidity of the stereotype of the tennis player as a spoilt, over-indulged rich kid. Footballers get paid an obscene amount of money in comparison, but then that is of course "the people's sport."

croat123
08-25-2006, 05:32 PM
Yes I gathered that might be the case with the lower ranked players.

As for endosrsments/appearance fees/commercials etc, wouldn't the agencies that have signed the player up also get a handsome portion of those?

Also, what about a player like Tommy Haas who was sponsored when he was learning how to play tennis since his family couldn't afford it? How much would the sponsors get off his earnings and would they get something from ALL of his earnings endorsments etc included?
there was definately a clause in his contract saying that his sponsers get x% of his on court earnings

Neverstopfightin
08-25-2006, 05:32 PM
Though we cannot consider Gimelstob a top player , this is what he said at Cincy some weeks ago :

Q. You talk about making a decent living. I think fans could probably look up your career winnings, but they don't factor in the expenses, the travel, the coaching.

JUSTIN GIMELSTOB: Right, definitely.

Q. How much do you think you spend in a year?

JUSTIN GIMELSTOB: I spend a lot. I'm a spender (smiling). I spend probably more than most.

Q. Tennis expenses.

JUSTIN GIMELSTOB: I was referring to tennis expenses. I probably spend more money than someone at my level generally would. I've also been fortunate, I've made more money than someone at my level generally would. When I came up, I had a lot of really lucrative endorsements, and my dad is a very savvy investor. So, yeah, I've made -- you spend a lot of money, so it's, you know --

Q. What's like an average year?

JUSTIN GIMELSTOB: Trainers, flights. Average?

Q. Total expenses.

JUSTIN GIMELSTOB: I would say well over a hundred thousand dollars definitely for me. Well over a hundred thousand dollars.

Q. I think a lot of people may not know that. They only read winnings.

JUSTIN GIMELSTOB: I would probably say a hundred to maybe even closer to a hundred fifty thousand dollars in expenses I spend a year.

RonE
08-25-2006, 05:35 PM
there was definately a clause in his contract saying that his sponsers get x% of his on court earnings

Do you have any idea how big that x% would be? Are we talking double digits?

Deboogle!.
08-25-2006, 05:35 PM
As for endosrsments/appearance fees/commercials etc, wouldn't the agencies that have signed the player up also get a handsome portion of those?yes, definitely. 10-15% most likely.... maybe even more. Also, what about a player like Tommy Haas who was sponsored when he was learning how to play tennis since his family couldn't afford it? How much would the sponsors get off his earnings and would they get something from ALL of his earnings endorsments etc included?That's a more unusual case, I'd guess it just depends on how they negotiated. It's really impossible to say without being able to analyze the contractDo you have any idea how big that x% would be? Are we talking double digits?
It's really hard to say b/c there are 2 ways of looking at it - 1) they're taking a huge risk on him so they want to take a lot, in case he doesn't make much, or 2) they really believe in him so they give him a fair deal at the outset with options to renegotiate later. No real way to know, we'd just have to guess. I'd be surprised if it were more than 10% though, but it may have had a sunset type of clause in it and they probably don't get anything anymore.

shotgun
08-25-2006, 05:42 PM
Q. I think a lot of people may not know that. They only read winnings.

JUSTIN GIMELSTOB: I would probably say a hundred to maybe even closer to a hundred fifty thousand dollars in expenses I spend a year.

That's practically the amount of money he earned last year.

Deboogle!.
08-25-2006, 05:50 PM
This is from a Sports Law treatise I found on Westlaw.. unfortunately there's not much there as much of the data and forms deal with team athletes and stuff. Not much about tennis players, or even more similar sports like boxing, golf, etc.

The responsibilities of the agent will usually include contracts, investments, taxes, and public relations. The SPK typically stipulates that the agent will be the athlete's exclusive representative. The fees for these services vary from 5% to 50% of the athlete's contract; it all depends on the responsibilities, the sport, etc. However, the various sports unions are increasingly involving themselves into the agent-athlete scenario by limiting fees and ordaining registration as a prerequisite to representation.


Interestingly enough, I found the standard ITF Licensing form and on Lexis I found the USTA Corporate sponsorship contract. Interesting :lol: :lol:

El Legenda
08-25-2006, 06:13 PM
all i can say...i dont feel bad for them..they make more money than anyone us.

+ when they retire at age 30..rest of their life they will get a month check....atleast Ljubicic will...he has some kind of retirement plan with the ATP...i would say 10k a month.

and after these player retire....most can set up a coaching school and make a killing there.....

and some are smart with their money...like Ljubicic..who has couple apartment buildings in works in Croatia

croat123
08-25-2006, 06:20 PM
ljubo also has a hotel in opatija (tell him to change the color though, the building is really nice, but the color has to go lol) :p

Deboogle!.
08-25-2006, 06:21 PM
Many of them are smart with their money. But you have to keep in mind that once you get to a certain point in the rankings, these guys are making almost nothing, whether they're smart with it or not.

I mean if you think about it in terms of other sports - the 100th best basketball or baseball or football (either american or soccer), etc, they are still making millions. The 100th ranked tennis player is probably struggling to make ends meet. It's the reality of tennis. The top guys are gonna be perfectly fine but nothing compared to where they'd be if they were top players in other major sports.

El Legenda
08-25-2006, 06:25 PM
Many of them are smart with their money. But you have to keep in mind that once you get to a certain point in the rankings, these guys are making almost nothing, whether they're smart with it or not.

I mean if you think about it in terms of other sports - the 100th best basketball or baseball or football (either american or soccer), etc, they are still making millions. The 100th ranked tennis player is probably struggling to make ends meet. It's the reality of tennis. The top guys are gonna be perfectly fine but nothing compared to where they'd be if they were top players in other major sports.

in the NBA if you are the worst player and have been in the league for 5 years...you cant make less than 3 or 4 million...its crazy... baseball does have a 300k min limit for first year players..but than they also have A-Rod who makes 25million a year. and tennis is 10x harder than baseball

R.Federer
08-25-2006, 06:40 PM
Hi Ron,

I recently read an article (maybe here on MTF, I'll try to dig it up) saying that most schemes are performance based and go up to 20% of earnings, which makes the risk shared (and often includes a fixed portion for the coach as well). Other schemes, possibly for lower ranked players, are ones where the risk is borne entirely by the player-- fixed portions for the coach.

World Beater
08-25-2006, 06:41 PM
in basketball, some players are 7ft tall, and cant do anything else...but because of their height, they get at least a million. benchwarmers get so much money in the nba.

basketball does a great job marketing the game....tennis is one of the few sports where you have legitimate international competition. its becoming harder to get to the elite level.

partygirl
08-25-2006, 06:46 PM
I always wondered...
is it the players responsability to pay for coaches & trainers flights and hotels too on top of their own?
as well as pay to each a salary?

-i don't know who else would foot the bill...
but that seems like a cash loss plan.

partygirl
08-25-2006, 06:51 PM
It's really impossible to say without being able to analyze the contract.
I hope to work really hard and receive some hefty contracts for Deb to Analyze with me ;)
(if she will take me on)...thankfully they won't have anything to do with broke ass tennis.:sobbing:

El Legenda
08-25-2006, 06:53 PM
I always wondered...
is it the players responsability to pay for coaches & trainers flights and hotels too on top of their own?
as well as pay to each a salary?

-i don't know who else would foot the bill...
but that seems like a cash loss plan.

i doubt they pay for the coaches and trainers flights.....or they might but pay the them less.

Whistleway
08-25-2006, 07:18 PM
And after that they gotta pay the tax too.

Socket
08-25-2006, 07:42 PM
I always wondered...
is it the players responsability to pay for coaches & trainers flights and hotels too on top of their own?
as well as pay to each a salary?

-i don't know who else would foot the bill...
but that seems like a cash loss plan.
One type of common arrangement for a garden-variety coach is to pay him a salary (plus bonus) plus a per diem for travel expenses such as hotels, meals, etc. Other players, usually the ones with the more sought-after coaches, need to give their coaches a better deal, and they pick up all the coach's travel expenses.

Deboogle!.
08-25-2006, 07:42 PM
I always wondered...
is it the players responsability to pay for coaches & trainers flights and hotels too on top of their own?
as well as pay to each a salary?

-i don't know who else would foot the bill...
but that seems like a cash loss plan.It's an employment contract of a sort, I'm sure expenses are figured into their contracts just like everyone else's. I'm starting an Internship next week, I ain't paying my own parking, and I guarantee you Brad Gilbert does not fly around at his own expense :p

partygirl
08-25-2006, 08:05 PM
This is a very interesting topic considering when you hear someone gets something like 15,000 for losing first round at wimbly...sounds great on paper but now i feel all :awww: for them.

hey at least they get a good body out of the years they can play:sobbing:...untill they run that into the ground and have to get another job at 30 something.

binkygirl
08-25-2006, 09:37 PM
Do you have any idea how big that x% would be? Are we talking double digits?


I wouldn't be shocked if it was double digits. Ion Tiriac got 40% of Boris Beckers earnings, because he 'discovered' Boris and paid for his training and travel in his formative years.

Its not the money that a tennis player makes on court that makes them wealthy, the real money lies in off court endorsements.

binkygirl
08-25-2006, 09:43 PM
in the NBA if you are the worst player and have been in the league for 5 years...you cant make less than 3 or 4 million...its crazy... baseball does have a 300k min limit for first year players..but than they also have A-Rod who makes 25million a year. and tennis is 10x harder than baseball

I remember one year, there was an interview with a Denver Nuggets player who only played a few minutes each season. He said that his salary that year was a bit over $200,000.

Does anyone know the minimum NBA salary? I heard a figure like $100k a year tossed around about a decade ago and veteran Laker player Byron Scott said that he didn't consider that sort of money worth playing for and would rather retire.

Mistaflava
08-25-2006, 10:04 PM
and tennis is 10x harder than baseball


I bet not a single player on the ATP Tour could hit a HR in a Major League Ballpark. However, I bet that 95% of Major League Baseball players can hit a tennis ball over a net more than once and have a decent rally.

You can't compare two sports like that and to say that tennis is harder is just a dumb statement.

NYCtennisfan
08-25-2006, 10:18 PM
The minimum salary for a rookie with of course no NBA experience is about $400,000.
If you have one year of experience, then the minimum is about $650,000.
If you have 10 or more years, then the minimum is about $1.2 milliion.

The minimum salary for a Major League baseball player is about $350,000.

These guys are also not paying for coaches, flights, hotels, meals, etc. The team provides all of that.

NYCtennisfan
08-25-2006, 10:20 PM
Hitting a baseball is an extraordinarily difficult task. You can read through so many biographies of great players and many of them say that they went to the ballpark the day of a game for a batting practice and a doubt lingered in the back of their mind whether this was the last day they would be able to hit in the major leagues.

federated
08-25-2006, 10:32 PM
Something that makes you realise the essential stupidity of the stereotype of the tennis player as a spoilt, over-indulged rich kid. Footballers get paid an obscene amount of money in comparison, but then that is of course "the people's sport."

True--but come on, football (or basketball, which is pretty much the democratic equivalent in the US) is something that anyone can play anywhere, and that doesn't require massive amounts of money to learn and for maintenance. Tennis has got to be one of the most expensive sports to learn. Of course not all the players have families that can foot the bill for all those expenses without serious sacrifice, but it would be near impossible for some poor kid in the third world to be able to rise to the top ranks of the tennis world.

Actually, does anyone know if there is/has been any highly ranked player of either sex from a third world country that wasn't from a wealthy family?

World Beater
08-25-2006, 10:35 PM
True--but come on, football (or basketball, which is pretty much the democratic equivalent in the US) is something that anyone can play anywhere, and that doesn't require massive amounts of money to learn and for maintenance. Tennis has got to be one of the most expensive sports to learn. Of course not all the players have families that can foot the bill for all those expenses without serious sacrifice, but it would be near impossible for some poor kid in the third world to be able to rise to the top ranks of the tennis world.

Actually, does anyone know if there is/has been any highly ranked player of either sex from a third world country that wasn't from a wealthy family?

argentina, brazil...many examples?

JW10S
08-26-2006, 03:01 AM
Something to also keep in mind is that local taxes are taken out of the player's prize money checks. For example an American player playing a tournament in England most pay English taxes on his prize money. Those taxes are credited here in the US when the player pays his US income taxes but since some countries have very high taxes it can really add up.

Deboogle!.
08-26-2006, 03:07 AM
Actually, does anyone know if there is/has been any highly ranked player of either sex from a third world country that wasn't from a wealthy family?Forget 3rd world countries, there are many players from first world countries who have grown up poor. Weren't the Williamses growing up on the streets of Compton? not third world, but hardly privileged. El-Aynaoui got himself into Bollettiery by driving a bus or something didn't he? There are many examples, I'm sure.

Fee
08-26-2006, 04:57 AM
A couple of things...

There have been a few tennis players that have visited baseball parks in the last few years and come very close to hitting out of the park (was it James that went to Shea last year? or Mardy in Houston? someone with a better memory can clear this up for me...). I doubt that any tennis player can hit a 100 mph fastball, but I also doubt that any MLB player can return a Roddick serve. I'd say they were even money in a race from homeplate to second base.

Justin's expenses are not the same as most players. For one thing, he does not travel with a coach on most occasions, but he does have a physical trainer with him as often as possible (considering his physical condition, the trainer is more important to him). Justin's biggest problem is that he has a bad habit of booking his flights too late (I know this because I have helped him with it from time to time, at the last possible minute... and if he's playing a Challenger, he doesn't book his hotels early and ends up paying too much). But because of his investments, he doesn't play tennis for money and he is very lucky that way (yes, he knows it).

As for player expenses, optional tournaments cover the cost of hotel rooms for main draw players, for up to 24 hours after they lose their last match. Combined Masters events and slams pay per diem (but that does not always cover the cost of the hotel rooms in those large, expensive cities).

Endorsement contracts vary (from equipment only to equipment plus a set amount a cash to equipment plus incentives) and coaching deals vary. Many of the players outside of the Top 75 do not have traveling coaches because they cannot afford them, or they share coaches with other players, or their federation helps pay for their coaching (I believe Phil Simmonds shares his coach with a few other players and the USTA helps pay for him. Steve Devries, I think. I get him mixed up with Scott McCain who coaches a different group of young Americans).

Tennis players do have it very rough, in a way. It is a very expensive sport to play (starting with say, 2 pairs of shoes per month) and it's very hard to make money at it. We tend to focus on the glamour of the top 20 and forget the grind of the other 1280 guys (and more) out there struggling to make a living at it.

Allez
08-26-2006, 07:05 AM
If only tennis was as popular as football. This is the reason why tennis players should do more than just turn up on the court on the day. They have to promote the sport as much as they can. Rogi's a very good example of someone who "gets it". Roddick, Sharapova & the Williamses too. It's insane that a sport of such global appeal is still languishing far behind things like baseball and basketball financially. It's all about promotion and getting a lot of new fans on board. The ATP and WTA have a lot of work to do. The players also. The top players should not be content with what they earn even though it's pretty handsome (Roger will top the 6 million dollar mark by the end of the year I think). They need to understand that a day will come when they're languishing at the other end (like Marat Safin) potentially earning peanuts and havoing to get rid of expensive coaches and trainers etc.

Action Jackson
08-27-2006, 09:56 AM
This is from an Argentine article done after RG 2004.

Two examples, this one is Diego Veronelli. “I have a manager, to whom I pay 20% of my earnings, and who gets me good contracts with German second league clubs. I am paid 3000 dollars per match and I play about seven or eight per year. As you have almost no expenses it´s almost all profit. The drawback is that you can´t play tournaments and in those weeks you don´t accumulate points. But the fact is that I make very good money and with that I can support myself for the rest of the season”. Veronelli´s recipe is repeated by the majority of the South American players who aren´t among the top one hundred of the ranking.

From Gaudio.

Many say: “Big joke, if he´s just won a million dollars”.

Of course, one has to discount 30% taxes, at least 10% for his work group, a percentage for his agent (Patricio Apey, Jr.). Various other expenses. He will have about half left, which isn´t bad.

Naranoc
08-27-2006, 10:02 AM
Something to also keep in mind is that local taxes are taken out of the player's prize money checks. For example an American player playing a tournament in England most pay English taxes on his prize money. Those taxes are credited here in the US when the player pays his US income taxes but since some countries have very high taxes it can really add up.

Doesn't Carlos Moya live in Switzerland to avoid paying taxes in Spain? ;)