The Official PAW Rules + Supplement [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The Official PAW Rules + Supplement

robuś
08-12-2006, 02:59 PM
The Official PAW Rules + Supplement
http://www.pawforum.ovh.org/stuff/pawlogo.jpg

1. I’m new and I have never played PAW, so how does it work?

PAW is an abbreviation for Pick-A-Winner. It is a game when you predict the winners of matches of your choice during a ATP Tournament. As a PAW player, you are indeed like a ATP player, you will be travelling the PAW circuit each week predicting matches in each tournament. PAW is game in which there is no pre-determined luck or fantasy, your performance is based on your own conscience relative to your fellow PAW competitors.

2. Ok, so I hear something about predicting matches, is there a limit to the number of matches I predict per tournament?

Yes there is a limit.

For:
Grand Slams, you are permitted to 26 picks
Other 128-draw tournaments, you are permitted to 19 picks
One-week 64-draw tournaments, you are permitted to 16 picks
One-week 32-draw tournaments, you are permitted to 13 picks
16-draw tournaments/round-robins, you are permitted to 7 picks.

The number of matches you pick can be from ANY rounds in the main draw. For example for a one-week 32 draw tournament you are allowed 13 picks.
(For instance, you might choose 4 First Round Matches, 4 Second Round matches, 2 Quarter Finals, both Semis and the Final. Or you could choose 12 First Round matches and the Final.)

>> The only stipulation is that you may not make all of your picks in the same round.

3. So how is my performance measured relative to everyone else’s, is it to do with who picks the most correct matches?

NO, your predicting performance at the end of the tournament will be determined and determined only by the Scoring Points that you have compiled throughout the week.

4. So what are these Scoring Points?

For every singles main draw match, there will be scoring points posted in the first post. Here is an example taken from Dubai Round 1st in 2008.

Scoring Points:

1st Round
Federer, Roger .......... vs Murray, Andy ............ (5-20)
Schuettler, Rainer ...... vs Verdasco, Fernando ...... (14-7)
Wawrinka, Stanislas ..... vs Hernych, Jan ............ (5-19)
Al Ghareeb, Mohammed .... vs Davydenko, Nikolay ...... (62-2)


The numbers after the fixtures are the Scoring Points. These are the respective points you score for picking each player. So if you pick Federer to beat Murray and Federer wins then you score 5 points.

But if you pick Murray to win and he wins then you score 20 points. Of course, if you pick Murray and he loses you score nothing at all.

As you have noticed, you get more points for picking low-ranked players than for picking high-ranked players. So for each of your selected matches you can choose to go for a “longshot” or to play it safe.

Let’s say you picked these matches:

PAW1: Murray over Federer
PAW2: Verdasco over Schuettler
PAW3: Hernych over Wawrinka
PAW4: Al Ghareeb over Davydenko


nB: Since you are limited to a certain amount of “picks” in a tournament (13 in this particular tournament), in an actual game you may choose to 'pass' on some of these matches.

The Results:

Murray def. Federer 67(6) 63 64
You picked Murray so you score 20 points

Verdasco def. Schuettler 76(7) 46 61
You picked Verdasco so you score 7 points

Hernych def. Wawrinka 64 64
You picked Hernych so you score 19 points

Davydenko def. Al Ghareeb 64 60
You picked Al Ghareeb so you score 0 points


So from those four matches, you would have accumulated a total of 20 + 7 + 19 + 0 = 46 points.
The player with the most points at the end of the tournament is the winner. A 'league table' is maintained and will posted in the first post of the PAW thread throughout that tournament.

5. How and where do I post my PAW’s (Predictions)?

Once the tournament that you have committed begins (keep reading for instructions of how to commit), go to the PAW thread located in that particular tournament forum (ie if it is Dubai, go to the Dubai tournament forum and then click the PAW Dubai thread). You may also send your picks by PM to the current PAW manager of that tournament.

Study the Fixtures and Scoring Points in the first post and then name your picks. The Fixtures and Scoring Points will appear when the First Round draw is made. You are allowed to post your picks before the Fixtures and Scoring Points have been posted on the thread.

This is how to post your prediction:

PAWn: Your Pick over Your Pick's Opponent

E.g. PAW1: Murray over Federer

"n" should indicate which of your 13 chosen fixtures it is. (ie your last chosen fixture should be labelled PAW13.)

Numbering PAWS not only is important to help the current PAW manager, but also helps you keep track of all your own Picks.

nB: You must posted your prediction in the format “Murray over Federer” or “Murray def Federer,” it must be clearly specified who you have predicted to win. If you posted “Murray vs Federer” this pick would be deemed invalid. You are also required to specify the full surname of the players - no abbreviations or nicknames please.

5.1 "Final pick rule"

The last pick (on the final day only) can be, but it is not a must, send via pm to the manager of the tournament. It would be good, not obligatory, but recommended that the player posts on the paw thread informing about his/her move. The manager can then post the picks he/she has received via pm once the final has started or when they are next online.


5.2 What if I posted PAW1 and next PAW2 as a reversed PAW1?

The case:
PAW1: PLAYER A over PLAYER B
PAW2: PLAYER B over PLAYER A

is equal with not putting picks (paws) at all. Both picks are not valid and may be replaced.

5.3 What if I posted PAW1 and next PAW2 the same as PAW1?

The case:
PAW1: PLAYER A over PLAYER B
PAW2: PLAYER A over PLAYER B

it's a double pick. PAW2 is not valid and may be replaced.


6. What happens when mtf.com is slow or down?
In this extreme situation, you may post your PAWS on alternative forum (pawforum) http://www.pawforum.ovh.org
Do remember to include your mtf.com handle.

7. Is it correct that I have to post my PAW’s before that match has started, would my PAW still be valid if I posted my PAW during the first few games?

NO, All picks must be made before the match begins. If there is a chance the match had started when the Pick was posted then that Pick cannot be accepted. This rule is applied very strictly.

Post your picks before the session of play begins to ensure your picks are accepted. This is so everyone knows your pick was made before the match started. (Match start times are not recorded, so picks made five minutes before a match starts cannot normally be accepted)

> In the circumstance of a tournament which provides live scores. Your PAW must be posted no later than five minutes within the last five minutes of the previous match on that court. If the match is the first on that court, you must post your PAW no later that the five minute barrier five minutes before the match time, for your pick to be valid.

> If the tournament does not provide live scores (ie not live internet scoreboard), the Closing Time for each match will determined by a formula, which is based on the total number of games played in earlier matches in the same session. Basically, three minutes are allowed for each game plus 10 minutes for each break between matches.

Picks posted after the Closing Time are accepted only in exceptional circumstances.
(e.g. in the case of rain delays, or if I happen to have watched the match live and noted the start time).

8. Would a PAW become invalid if a player withdrew from their match?

This depends:
> If the player withdrew before the match and not one single point was completed, the PAW would be invalid and players are allowed to make a replacement PAW.

> If the player withdrew from the match after at least one single points had been completed, the PAW would be valid.

9. What if a player withdraws from the final (before the match), would that make the last pick invalid and mean I would go throughout the tournament only picking 12 matches, rather than the maximum 13?

Yes, this is an unfortunate circumstance. If it is impossible to make a replacement PAW it is unfortunate and no Scoring Points are awarded. This rule applies to all matches not played (e.g. matches cancelled due to rain).

10. What if I change my mind after I make my PAW, can I change it?

It is strongly encouraged that you make up your mind before you pick. However you are allowed to make replacement PAWS as long as it is posted before the match and it most be specified in a new post. You MUST NOT edit your original post, since this is not efficient for the PAW manager in compiling your picks.

10.1 Original pick can not be replaced if any of the points below occurs:

1. the new pick is not valid
2. the new pick is the same as any of the previous picks

10.2 Don't edit the post and never delete it!

A moderator (or administrator) will scan tournament's thread every day to track on deleted/edited posts. If you caught cheating, you will be automatically disqualified from this tournament. In certain case, you might be banned from playing temporarily or permanently. Please play fairly, everybody!

Punishments for paw's cheaters:
For 1st cheating -> disqualification from current tournament and banning for a month from playing PAW-game.
For 2nd cheating -> permbanning from playing PAW-game.

10.3 Don't copy pick(s) from another player(s)!

If the manager recognizes, that Your picks were copied from another player, You will get warning, if Your picks are still "suspicious" You will be disqualified from the current tournament, in case of another attempts of cheating You will be banned.

11. What if a draw change occurred, that affected my pick, would that make it invalid?

Yes, however you are again permitted to post a replacement PAW that must be specified in a new post rather than editing the original one.

nB: Once a Pick is posted in the PAW thread, it may not be changed or deleted.

Players that decide to delete their PAWS will suffer a penalty of being defaulted from that particular tournament and will serve a one month ban from playing PAW (the only exception is for players playing their first tournament). Players that commit this act twice are subject for a permanent banning from PAW.

The PAW manager frequently takes copies of the thread text at regular intervals and the Picks are entered into a database.


12. Am I permitted to play under two or more accounts in PAW?

In order to retain the integrity and spirit of PAW, this is not allowed. Players that appear to be suspicious of having accounts transmitting from the same IP, will have their IP’s checked from the MTF.com webmasters and could risk being suspended in PAW.

You must be a member on MTF, with a full account's activation.

n.B: It has come to my attention recently that there appears to be an increase in PAW players using multiple user accounts.


Re: The League Table

Each player's points are tallied and the player with the most points at the end of the tournament is declared the winner. In the event of a tie there is no 'tiebreaker'. The 'League Table' is maintained daily throughout the tournament.

Here's an example from end of tournament:

. . Player..................... .. .P .. W .. L ..Pts
1 . speedster_................. .. 13 .. 8 .. 5 ..133
2 . saab95..................... .. 13 .. 8 .. 5 ..128
3 . sandg (2).................. .. 13 .. 8 .. 5 ..126
4 . YoungProfessor............. .. 13 .. 9 .. 4 ..124
5 . ntohir..................... .. 13 .. 9 .. 4 ..122
6 . Wojtek (1)................. .. 13 .. 8 .. 5 ..117
7 . Je_ne_sais_quoi............ .. 13 .. 7 .. 6 ..105
8 . mypapa_je.................. .. 13 .. 6 .. 7 ..102
9 . SpikeyAidanm (4)........... .. 13 .. 6 .. 7 .. 96
10 . j_dementieva27............ .. 13 .. 7 .. 6 .. 94
11 . twight6................... .. 13 .. 7 .. 6 .. 93
12 . WTA Handicapper (6)....... .. 13 .. 9 .. 4 .. 92


> Under the far left column represents the league table position of that player, which usually changes on daily basis.

> Under the “P” column are the total number of picks made of that player at a certain time (ie – after the QF or after the whole tournament). This column is important for players to check out how many picks they have left.

> Under the “W” column are the number of picks that player has made correctly. This has no bearing on their final league table position, remember only the total amount of points are considered.

> Similarly, under the “L” column are the number of picks the player has made incorrectly.

> Under the “Pts” column is the total number of points the player has gained through the scoring points of the matches. Again this is continually changing until the final day.

nB:
> (n) denotes the seed of that player, which like the ATP Ranking system is determined through the player’s PAW ranking as of the previous week. Seeded players are not advantaged in any way.

> (WC) represents that that particular player has requested a wildcard to enter the tournament, see the section of commitments for more details about Wildcards.


Re: Rankings

The PAW Ranking System closely mirrors the ATP Ranking System. Ranking Points are awarded according to positions in the Final League Table of each tournament.

13. How are ranking points distributed?

For example from the above Dubai 2008 tournament, ranking points are offered to the following places as follows:


1st ---- 300 ..... 9th ---- 68 ...... 17th --- 24 ...... 25th --- 19
2nd ---- 210 ..... 10th --- 62 ...... 18th --- 23 ...... 26th --- 18
3rd ---- 172 ..... 11th --- 56 ...... 19th --- 23 ...... 27th --- 18
4th ---- 135 ..... 12th --- 50 ...... 20th --- 22 ...... 28th --- 17
5th ---- 120 ..... 13th --- 43 ...... 21st --- 21 ...... 29th --- 16
6th ---- 105 ..... 14th --- 37 ...... 22nd --- 21 ...... 30th --- 16
7th ---- 90 ...... 15th --- 31 ...... 23rd --- 20 ...... 31st --- 15
8th ---- 75 ...... 16th --- 25 ...... 24th --- 20 ...... 32nd --- 15

33rd --- 14 ...... 41st --- 11 ...... 49th --- 7 ....... 57th --- 4
34th --- 14 ...... 42nd --- 10 ...... 50th --- 7 ....... 58th --- 3
35th --- 13 ...... 43rd --- 10 ...... 51st --- 6 ....... 59th --- 3
36th --- 13 ...... 44th --- 9 ....... 52nd --- 6 ....... 60th --- 2
37th --- 12 ...... 45th --- 9 ....... 53rd --- 5 ....... 61st --- 2
38th --- 12 ...... 46th --- 8 ....... 54th --- 5 ....... 62nd --- 1
39th --- 11 ...... 47th --- 8 ....... 55th --- 4 ....... 63rd --- 1
40th --- 11 ...... 48th --- 8 ....... 56th --- 4 ....... 64th --- 1



14. What happens if I finish equal 3rd with two other players, does that mean the 3rd, 4th and 5th position are determined through who has the best win-loss ratio?

Tie break rules
In case several players have the same number of points, the following rules will be used to determine their ranking:
1. The greater number of won picks.
If there is still a tie then:
2. The greater points of a single pick.
If there is still a tie then the greater second-best pick, and so on.
No pick will be considered better than 0 pts.
3. If there is still a tie then players will stay tied.

15. What happens if I finish equal 10th with another player, does that mean we both earn 32 points that week?

No, players that finish with the same number of points of a certain number of other players, are awarded “average points.”

For example if two players finish equal 10th, each would earn ( 32+ 29 ) / 2 = 30.5 points (see the above table). If three players finished equal 10th, each would earn ( 32 + 29 + 26) / 3 = 29 points.

16. Are the games PAW(s) Doubles, PAW ITF and PAW Qualifying related to this game?

No, and they never will be. These game are run by different people and have different rules.

17. OK, I’ve read everything and understood it and I would like to play, so what do I do now?

Just go to the current PAW commitment thread which is located in the PAW forum and post, “I commit to….,” the tournaments available, that can be seen on the first post of that thread. You must have posted a commitment before the deadline (which is a day before the start of main draw play or else you will have to apply for a wildcard). Remember you can play just one PAW game at a time. Even when more than one tournament is run simultaneously, and there are PAW games for each of them, you must commit to one tournament.


17.1 Deadline for commitment - what is the exact moment?

It's at midnight local time (for the tournament's place) the day before the begining of a main draw, e.g. if a main draw starts on Monday, the deadline is at Sunday midnight (which means from Sunday to Monday).

17.1.1 The World Clocks for ATP tournament cities

The link: http://www.pawforum.ovh.org/worldclocks (http://www.pawforum.ovh.org/worldclocks/)

Wildcards

17.2 Wildcards - how many of them are available in the tournament, and when are they granted?

The number of WCs is limited to 5 per tournament. Additionally the manager can grant extra WCs for new players only.
WCs are given to players who failed to make a commitment until the deadline or wish to change their tournament after that. Players who asked for WC while the commitment list was still open will be treated as if they have already commited on time.

17.3 Wildcards - how many of them can I take during the whole year-season?

Three.

17.4 When can I withdraw from one event and switch to another?

You can do that only if you don't have any picks posted at the moment (and later) of the beginning of the 1st match main draw of the tournament from which you want to withdraw.

17.5 Obligation of the WC player's.

A player who asks for a WC and receives it, is obliged to post his/her pick within 12 hours from the moment of posting the request for a WC, otherwise the manager can take the WC away if required (eg.: in the case when there is no WCs left and another player asks for it).

17.6 What if a player posts picks without commitment or WC?

His picks are not valid until he asks for WC. Therefore posted picks become valid at the moment of question for a WC. So picks for matches played in the meantime are invalid.

TMC

18. The Master Cup's Qualification Rules.

Top 16 players of The Champions Race automatically qualify to The Masters Cup.
Note to the Tie Break Rules in TMC: if there are ties not resolved by the usual rules, ranking will be determined by ranking in the Champions Race.

..........................................

Please post any questions or comments.

Robuś :wavey:

njnetswill
08-12-2006, 11:20 PM
Thanks robus.

Is the YEC field this year top 16 or top 8?

bad gambler
08-12-2006, 11:23 PM
:yeah:

robuś
08-13-2006, 10:25 AM
Thanks robus.

Is the YEC field this year top 16 or top 8?
I think like last year top 16, but that would be up for discussion.

Action Jackson
08-17-2006, 08:35 AM
Thanks for that. One question I have and this one is a grey area for me anyway.

When does a pick constitute a late pick? I mean in my view, if they are warming up then it's Ok, as they usually need 10-15 mins including a warm up before the match starts. I mean if I see someone has posted and it's 0-15 then it's late, but what is the rule on that?

robuś
08-17-2006, 01:40 PM
Thanks for that. One question I have and this one is a grey area for me anyway.

When does a pick constitute a late pick? I mean in my view, if they are warming up then it's Ok, as they usually need 10-15 mins including a warm up before the match starts. I mean if I see someone has posted and it's 0-15 then it's late, but what is the rule on that?

Point 7 Official PAW Rules gives detailed explanation on that. Player can't use the "warm up time" as a rule, he should make it before the time of the beginning of match stated in OOP. But if someone has posted his pick a few seconds before 0-15, he should be aware of the fact, that the manager will consider such pick invalid, if he won't be able to check if the pick was on time.


7. Is it correct that I have to post my PAW’s before that match has started, would my PAW still be valid if I posted my PAW during the first few games?

NO, All picks must be made before the match begins. If there is a chance the match had started when the Pick was posted then that Pick cannot be accepted. This rule is applied very strictly.

Post your picks before the session of play begins to ensure your picks are accepted. This is so everyone knows your pick was made before the match started. (Match start times are not recorded, so picks made five minutes before a match starts cannot normally be accepted)

> In the circumstance of a tournament which provides live scores. Your PAW must be posted no later than five minutes within the last five minutes of the previous match on that court. If the match is the first on that court, you must post your PAW no later that the five minute barrier five minutes before the match time, for your pick to be valid.

> If the tournament does not provide live scores (ie not live internet scoreboard), the Closing Time for each match will determined by a formula, which is based on the total number of games played in earlier matches in the same session. Basically, three minutes are allowed for each game plus 10 minutes for each break between matches.

Picks posted after the Closing Time are accepted only in exceptional circumstances.
(e.g. in the case of rain delays, or if I happen to have watched the match live and noted the start time).

Action Jackson
08-17-2006, 01:42 PM
Thanks the 5 min rule solves the problem clearly.

User id 7816
08-31-2006, 01:46 PM
I know it's 'the rules', but can someone remind me why matches in which players retire are considered valid? It doesn't seem fair to me. For eg. Coria retires at 3:2 first set and you get 44 pts for that? Yeah, right.
:shrug:

nitsansh
09-05-2006, 09:28 PM
Who and when decided on the penalties policy?
I don't recall that subject being discussed.
I think a month ban is too harsh for 1st offence.

Regarding the late picks rule... it seems the policy I allways used was not as described here. If there is indication that a match has not started at the time of posting the pick, it's valid.

nitsansh
09-05-2006, 09:36 PM
I know it's 'the rules', but can someone remind me why matches in which players retire are considered valid? It doesn't seem fair to me. For eg. Coria retires at 3:2 first set and you get 44 pts for that? Yeah, right.
:shrug:
Perhaps because when bonus (quality) points were part of the ranking (for women until last year), players would get bonus points in case their opponent retired during the game, but didn't get them in case of win by walk over.
I think that rule was part of PAW from the beginning, but I can't testify on that since I wasn't here at that time (I'm only 3 years young at MTF).

I recall there was a discussion on that about a year ago, but the results were inconclusive.

robuś
09-06-2006, 09:03 PM
Who and when decided on the penalties policy?
I don't recall that subject being discussed.
I think a month ban is too harsh for 1st offence.

The penalties policy is taken from WTAworld, where it exists for quite a long time. There is no problem of changing it, if it seems harsh to other managers too.

nitsansh
09-07-2006, 03:54 PM
It's OK to penalize players that you can prove were cheating.
But if that's not the case, it seems too harsh for me.

robuś
09-07-2006, 04:35 PM
But if that's not the case, it seems too harsh for me.
What do you mean by this? What other case are you talking about? I thought proved cheating was the only case we are talking about.

nitsansh
09-09-2006, 02:14 PM
So I agree with that. It wasn't clear when I read it first time.

How do you prove someone is a cheater?
For example, in case of an edit, how do you know what was the previous post if you didn't see it?

robuś
09-20-2006, 03:31 PM
How do you prove someone is a cheater?
For example, in case of an edit, how do you know what was the previous post if you didn't see it?
Of course we cannot prove someone is a cheater, but we also cannot prove that someone isn't. Therefore there is nothing to be proved, the rules should be clear. Player who edited his PAW after the begining of the first match of the day should be considered a cheater.
Fortunately there aren't many such cases.

robuś
10-02-2006, 04:53 PM
Added point 18. The Master Cup's Qualification Rules.

nitsansh
10-03-2006, 10:19 PM
Of course we cannot prove someone is a cheater, but we also cannot prove that someone isn't. Therefore there is nothing to be proved, the rules should be clear. Player who edited his PAW after the begining of the first match of the day should be considered a cheater.
Fortunately there aren't many such cases.

What do we do if a player edits before the start of the day's matches? do we accept the changes?

robuś
10-06-2006, 04:45 PM
What do we do if a player edits before the start of the day's matches? do we accept the changes?
I don't know, I suppose we could accept the changes but only if the pick was posted and edited the same day, and before the start of the first match of the day. Nevertheless such person should be warned not to do this again.

robuś
12-25-2006, 12:23 PM
Changed points 6 and 18,
added point 17.3.

njnetswill
01-01-2007, 12:11 AM
I don't know, I suppose we could accept the changes but only if the pick was posted and edited the same day, and before the start of the first match of the day. Nevertheless such person should be warned not to do this again.

I agree. It isn't that hard to quote your own original post and then make the needed changes - editing the original post shouldn't be regularly accepted, even if it is prior to play.

Deathless Mortal
02-27-2007, 02:33 PM
When someone posts late pick, let's say like this:
PAW1: Przysiezny def Federer
PAW2: Bahrouzyan def Nadal
PAW3: Seppi def Anybody LATE

We don't accept that pick, but do we count that PAW3 or can player post another PAW3?

robuś
02-27-2007, 04:13 PM
When someone posts late pick, let's say like this:
PAW1: Przysiezny def Federer
PAW2: Bahrouzyan def Nadal
PAW3: Seppi def Anybody LATE

We don't accept that pick, but do we count that PAW3 or can player post another PAW3?

A pick that is posted after a match started is invalid and may be replaced.

Deathless Mortal
02-28-2007, 11:07 AM
A pick that is posted after a match started is invalid and may be replaced.

Ok, thanks :)

robuś
03-03-2007, 11:55 AM
Added point 17.4. Switching tournament.
Added point 19. "The fair play rule".

yemok
03-03-2007, 12:47 PM
19. "The fair play rule".

From the quarterfinals, Player A at the lower position (in Ranking Table of given tournament) to Player B, can use the rule:
"I post pick: Ccccc over Ddddd
if Player A picks the same, reverse my pick to Ddddd over Ccccc".



:yeah:

nitsansh
03-03-2007, 07:22 PM
I disagree with point 17.4.

I think that once a player posts picks in one tournament, he can't play in another on the same week.

nitsansh
03-03-2007, 07:26 PM
From the quarterfinals, Player A at the lower position (in Ranking Table of given tournament) to Player B, can use the rule:

Does "lower position" mean lower or higher ranking number?

robuś
03-03-2007, 10:22 PM
I disagree with point 17.4.

I think that once a player posts picks in one tournament, he can't play in another on the same week.

It does say exactly the same in point 17.4. what you have just written in here.

You can do that only if you don't have any picks posted at the moment of the beginning of the 1st match (and further) of the tournament from which you want to withdraw.

(and further) - means you not only can't have any picks at the moment of the beginning of the first match of the tournament but in later matches as well.

It seems clear to me but if it isn't just tell me which part you don't understand.

robuś
03-03-2007, 10:47 PM
Does "lower position" mean lower or higher ranking number?

Sorry but you might have been confused because of the mistake in the rule: letters A and B were swaped. The mistake has already been corrected.

From the quarterfinals, Player B at the lower position (in Ranking Table of given tournament) to Player A, can use the rule:
"I post pick: Ccccc over Ddddd
if Player A picks the same, reverse my pick to Ddddd over Ccccc".

So the "lower position" means lower ranking number (which also is a smaller number of points).

Hotzenplotz
03-04-2007, 12:19 AM
19. "The fair play rule".

From the quarterfinals, Player B at the lower position (in Ranking Table of given tournament) to Player A, can use the rule:
"I post pick: Ccccc over Ddddd
if Player A picks the same, reverse my pick to Ddddd over Ccccc".

I like the general idea behind the rule though I think the rule itself could be improved.
First, a player ranking lower isn't necessarily at a disadvantage. Say, you lead the tournament before the semis, have one pick left, and are 1 point ahead of the second ranked who has two picks left(imagine this had happened in Dubai with a quite easily to pick tournament winner so you can easily see who has the advantage here). So why not give everyone the choice of a conditional pick? Surely this can't hurt anyone as this can only be an advantage when you consider yourself actually ranking behind someone. Second, why not add the choice:
"I post pick: Ccccc over Ddddd
if Player A picks the same, cancel this pick".
or
"I post pick: Ccccc over Ddddd
if Player A picks the same, I pick Eeeee over Fffff"(a later match).
This is what I would've used today in the PAW Las Vegas where I chose Korolev but would've preferred picking Safin in the second semifinal if the tournament leader had wanted to pick Korolev as well.
Finally, you could allow something like "if both Player A and B pick the same, ..."

robuś
03-04-2007, 12:49 AM
Point 19. "The fair play rule" has been suspended. Since there are many different opinions on the subject it needs to be disscussed yet.

robuś
03-04-2007, 11:15 AM
Situation:

player A - 100pts, 1 pick left,
player B - 99pts, 1 pick left,
1 match left to the finish of a tournament (final match: CCC vs DDD)

Question:

Can player A post:
"PAW: CCC over DDD
if player B picks in revers, change my pick to the same as player's B" ?

Hotzenplotz
03-04-2007, 03:59 PM
Situation:

player A - 100pts, 1 pick left,
player B - 99pts, 1 pick left,
1 match left to the finish of a tournament (final match: CCC vs DDD)

Question:

Can player A post:
"PAW: CCC over DDD
if player B picks in revers, change my pick to the same as player's B" ?

That would require point "20. The unfair play rule" ;)
Surely noone wants that.

robuś
03-04-2007, 04:49 PM
That would require point "20. The unfair play rule" ;)
Surely noone wants that.
Ok, one issue solved, this will be forbidden.


Another situation:

player A - 100pts, 1 pick left,
player B - 99pts, 1 pick left,
1 match left to the finish of a tournament (final match: CCC vs DDD)

Question:

Can player B post:
"PAW: CCC over DDD
if Player A picks the same, reverse my pick to DDD over CCC" ?

ExcaliburII
03-04-2007, 04:53 PM
I think in that case you should send your pick by PM.

Hotzenplotz
03-04-2007, 05:08 PM
I think in that case you should send your pick by PM.

That is the ideal solution if the managers are OK with that.

Suggestion:

19. The PM rule: Every player may send his final two picks via PM to the tournament manager.

robuś
03-04-2007, 05:13 PM
I think in that case you should send your pick by PM.
Who is "you"? player A or B?
OK "you" should send a pick by PM but to whom? manager? what if player A or B is the manager? what if this case refers also to player C,D E,F G,H and so on, should all of them send a pick by PM?

ExcaliburII
03-04-2007, 06:15 PM
The ones who want can send their picks by pm. If manager is involved, they send all picks to an assistant manager.

robuś
03-04-2007, 06:51 PM
Suggestion:

19. The PM rule: Every player may send his final two picks via PM to the tournament manager.
There was already a "small battle" in quarterfinals in Dubai between two players about one match and those weren't their last two picks.

The ones who want can send their picks by pm. If manager is involved, they send all picks to an assistant manager.
This way the manager would have the advantage over the rest of the players. Speaking of an assistant - it is hard to find a manager not to mention an assistant and yet the one that's not involved.

Cervantes
03-04-2007, 09:22 PM
There was already a "small battle" in quarterfinals in Dubai between two players about one match and those weren't their last two picks.


This way the manager would have the advantage over the rest of the players. Speaking of an assistant - it is hard to find a manager not to mention an assistant and yet the one that's not involved.

Surely we're not talking Santoro vs Soderling here ;)

A) Robus and I already discussed picks by pm. But we don't want the manager to have any kind of advantage here, cause some of the managers are highly ranked players themselves and we don't want there to be any conflict of interests.

B) We shouldn't allow too many conditional elements in picks. I don't want picks like:

PAW12: Soderling def. Santoro
- if robus also picks this reverse the pick
- if Djokovic def. Federer cancel this pick
- if Rochus def. Haas cancel this pick
- if Nadal def. Youzhny, change it to Santoro def. Soderling

C) I don't think only lower ranked players should be allowed to post a conditional picks, cause like someone mentioned a higher ranked player could also be at a disadvantage.

So keep the original rule, but scratch the part where only lower ranked players can use it.

Hotzenplotz
03-04-2007, 09:43 PM
So keep the original rule, but scratch the part where only lower ranked players can use it.

Shouldn't we at least allow the conditional cancellation (not only the reversal) of a pick in addition to the original rule? Surely this isn't too complicated :shrug:

yemok
03-05-2007, 12:09 AM
I think in that case you should send your pick by PM.

this will cause troubles, the manager can take advantage, and also he'll be always on suspicion (example: if my girlfriend or my friends play in the tournament I manage and succeed to earn place via PM some people might have doubts about the authenticity of their pick - of course I'll never do it ;) , but it's still possible. I think we don't need such spirits here in PAW




B) We shouldn't allow too many conditional elements in picks. I don't want picks like:

PAW12: Soderling def. Santoro
- if robus also picks this reverse the pick
- if Djokovic def. Federer cancel this pick
- if Rochus def. Haas cancel this pick
- if Nadal def. Youzhny, change it to Santoro def. Soderling


100% agree!


Sorry but you might have been confused because of the mistake in the rule: letters A and B were swaped. The mistake has already been corrected.

From the quarterfinals, Player B at the lower position (in Ranking Table of given tournament) to Player A, can use the rule:
"I post pick: Ccccc over Ddddd
if Player A picks the same, reverse my pick to Ddddd over Ccccc".

So the "lower position" means lower ranking number (which also is a smaller number of points).


I still think this great idea will improve the game and it's fair enough!
Example:

player A - 100pts, 1 pick left,
player B - 99pts, 1 pick left,

player A picks AAXX
player B picks XXAA
a little bit later player A changes pick to XXAA



or the simple situation

player B picks XXAA
player A picks XXAA


if the new rule is in charge that'll never happen and the leading player have to choose right and not just pick the same as the player behind and win no matter what happens in the match (and that's important and in interest of the game!) because player B can use the right to pick reverse.
With this we'll avoid also 'small battles' for a pick with both players changing their picks again & again (although it's very funny ;) ).
And that's not a disadvantage to the leading player because he's the one who have a choice - player B can only hope his opponent will go wrong and (most likely) the outsider tennis player will win the match

Cervantes
03-05-2007, 09:51 AM
Shouldn't we at least allow the conditional cancellation (not only the reversal) of a pick in addition to the original rule? Surely this isn't too complicated :shrug:

That's ok with me, so either reverse or cancel, those are the options.

Frooty_Bazooty
03-05-2007, 05:20 PM
I dont think conditional picks should be allowed, they show really poor gamesmanship.

picks are meant to be written player A over player B - there shouldnt be a story after each one.

Renaud
03-06-2007, 02:59 AM
I dont think conditional picks should be allowed, they show really poor gamesmanship.

picks are meant to be written player A over player B - there shouldnt be a story after each one.

I agree :)

shotgun
03-06-2007, 01:39 PM
I dont think conditional picks should be allowed, they show really poor gamesmanship.

picks are meant to be written player A over player B - there shouldnt be a story after each one.

I agree, and I think there should also be a limit for changing your final pick, to avoid "personal battles". For example:

player A has 100 points, 1 pick left
player B has 99 points, 1 pick left

player A: XX def. YY
player B: YY def. XX
then player A: replace XX def. YY by YY def. XX
and so on...

I think there should be a rule stating that once your final pick has been posted, it cannot be changed/cancelled/replaced, unless of course, it's an invalid pick.

Renaud
03-06-2007, 03:25 PM
I agree, and I think there should also be a limit for changing your final pick, to avoid "personal battles". For example:

player A has 100 points, 1 pick left
player B has 99 points, 1 pick left

player A: XX def. YY
player B: YY def. XX
then player A: replace XX def. YY by YY def. XX
and so on...

I think there should be a rule stating that once your final pick has been posted, it cannot be changed/cancelled/replaced, unless of course, it's an invalid pick.



That's what i thought too.
That would be a good solution. :)

robuś
03-06-2007, 06:39 PM
I dont think conditional picks should be allowed, they show really poor gamesmanship.

picks are meant to be written player A over player B - there shouldnt be a story after each one.
Everything what you're saying is true, but adding these rules will first of all: help to avoid "personal (pick changing) battles" just a moment before the beginning of the match, second of all: not everyone has the time to keep an eye on the opponents till the very last minute. The manager has to also check whether the "battle" wasn't still on at the beginning of the match and which last pick was valid.

I agree, and I think there should also be a limit for changing your final pick, to avoid "personal battles". For example:

player A has 100 points, 1 pick left
player B has 99 points, 1 pick left

player A: XX def. YY
player B: YY def. XX
then player A: replace XX def. YY by YY def. XX
and so on...

I think there should be a rule stating that once your final pick has been posted, it cannot be changed/cancelled/replaced, unless of course, it's an invalid pick.
The idea is good, but the result may be pathetic. Awaiting till the last second, and later many problems involved with that, those who won't be able to keep an eye on oponents' picks - loose.
To sum up the subject - it shows that every person has a different opinion on that, so I'm starting to think I will vote against introducing any new rules related to that issue.

shotgun
03-06-2007, 07:13 PM
The idea is good, but the result may be pathetic. Awaiting till the last second, and later many problems involved with that, those who won't be able to keep an eye on oponents' picks - loose.
To sum up the subject - it shows that every person has a different opinion on that, so I'm starting to think I will vote against introducing any new rules related to that issue.

I still think it's better than leaving it the way it is. If the player wants to wait until the last second to post his final pick, it's up to him, and he will be aware of the risk he's running. This rule I proposed would make it much harder for posters to make conditional picks. And in my opinion, PAW is a game where you should make your decisions regardless of what your opponent picks.

Anyway, these are my 2 cents, the decision of course is up to you and the others. :wavey:

nitsansh
03-07-2007, 09:19 PM
It does say exactly the same in point 17.4. what you have just written in here.

You can do that only if you don't have any picks posted at the moment of the beginning of the 1st match (and further) of the tournament from which you want to withdraw.

(and further) - means you not only can't have any picks at the moment of the beginning of the first match of the tournament but in later matches as well.

It seems clear to me but if it isn't just tell me which part you don't understand.

No. It's not the same.
I mean that if a player post picks in a tournament in which he is commited to play (or asked for WC), he can't decide later to withdraw and play in another tournament.

According to your rule, a player is allowed to post picks at several tournaments simoultanousely, and later decide to withdraw from all but one of them, and as long as he makes his withdrawl before the start of the 1st match, it's OK. I want to avoid this situation.
A player should be responsible to know in which tournament he commited to play, and make sure before he post his first picks that he does it at the right tournament.
A player who post picks at a tournament confirms his intention to play in that tournament. There is no reason IMO that a player would switch tournaments after he posted picks.

nitsansh
03-07-2007, 09:38 PM
I think picks conditional to other players pick should not be allowed.

Conditional picks may be allowed on the same player's picks, provided that the conditional match was concluded before the match which it is linked to.
I mean this:

Pick 1: A over B
If A wins: Pick 2: C over D
or
Pick 1: A over B
Pick 2: C over D
If A wins, cancel pick 2.
or
Pick 1: A over B
Pick 2: C over D
If A wins, replace pick 2: E over F

Those conditions can be allowed only if match 2 started after match 1 ended.

robuś
03-07-2007, 10:21 PM
No. It's not the same.
I mean that if a player post picks in a tournament in which he is commited to play (or asked for WC), he can't decide later to withdraw and play in another tournament.

According to your rule, a player is allowed to post picks at several tournaments simoultanousely, and later decide to withdraw from all but one of them, and as long as he makes his withdrawl before the start of the 1st match, it's OK. I want to avoid this situation.
A player should be responsible to know in which tournament he commited to play, and make sure before he post his first picks that he does it at the right tournament.
A player who post picks at a tournament confirms his intention to play in that tournament. There is no reason IMO that a player would switch tournaments after he posted picks.

There is a rule in:
PAW Rules point 17. Remember you can play just one PAW game at a time. Even when more than one tournament is run simultaneously, and there are PAW games for each of them, you must commit to one tournament.

Firstly as you can see there is already a rule that forbids playing in more than one tournament at the same time, secondly in my rule there is nothing that says you can play in many tournaments simultaneously and what's more it clearly points out you can not have any pick posted if you want to withdraw.

Deathless Mortal
03-24-2007, 02:17 PM
I'll manage Valencia soon, and i still don't know how do we pick points for each match. Example:

Match Federer-Querrey (3-38)
can that be how manager wants, or are there some rules about it? could Cervantes have make it (3-39) or so?
Thank you :wavey:

robuś
03-24-2007, 02:56 PM
I'll manage Valencia soon, and i still don't know how do we pick points for each match. Example:

Look at post #208 and #212 (page 14-15) in managers thread.

robuś
04-17-2007, 04:18 PM
Added point 10.1.

bruzilio
06-05-2007, 06:30 PM
How is the scoring points at the end of a Grand Slam??

Sorry but i don't found this in any thread...

robuś
06-05-2007, 06:40 PM
How is the scoring points at the end of a Grand Slam??

PAW Ranking Points?
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=11653

:)

bruzilio
06-05-2007, 06:46 PM
PAW Ranking Points?
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=11653

:)

:worship: :worship:
thankzzzzzzzzzz

Caio_Brasil
06-12-2007, 12:32 AM
what's the formula to calculate points? i can't find it in any place...

maldini
06-12-2007, 06:40 AM
what's the formula to calculate points? i can't find it in any place...

have a look here: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=1929185&postcount=212
:wavey:

Caio_Brasil
06-12-2007, 05:30 PM
have a look here: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=1929185&postcount=212
:wavey:

thanks a lot!

Aguante_el_Gato
06-28-2007, 07:09 PM
I still think it's better than leaving it the way it is. If the player wants to wait until the last second to post his final pick, it's up to him, and he will be aware of the risk he's running. This rule I proposed would make it much harder for posters to make conditional picks. And in my opinion, PAW is a game where you should make your decisions regardless of what your opponent picks.

Anyway, these are my 2 cents, the decision of course is up to you and the others. :wavey:Hi, I'm running Wimbledon and I don't know what did you decide about this topic?

Action Jackson
06-29-2007, 06:03 AM
Hi, I'm running Wimbledon and I don't know what did you decide about this topic?

Conditonal picks aren't allowed.

robuś
06-29-2007, 10:54 AM
Conditonal picks aren't allowed.

IMO if both players have nothing against, why not?
e.g. look at this situation: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=80953&page=12
everything was clear.

Action Jackson
06-29-2007, 11:09 AM
IMO if both players have nothing against, why not?
e.g. look at this situation: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=80953&page=12
everything was clear.

I wouldn't know about that, I am not going do it, cause it's just cheap. I agree with shotgun on this. Someone has to make a move eventually.

robuś
10-02-2007, 05:27 PM
As there are many cases of players asking for a wild card and then (for many reasons) not joining the game and at the same time wasting a WC, a new point 17.5 is being added to the Supplement of The Official PAW Rules:

17.5 Obligation of the WC player's.

A player who asks for a WC and receives it, is obliged to post his/her pick within 12 hours from the moment of posting the request for a WC. Otherwise the WC will be taken away.

hallso
11-07-2007, 02:18 PM
I propose an additional point to the rules:
i.e. 18.1 "if some qualified player(s) doesn't pick 7 games during whole TMC, alternate player(s) with 7 picks has priority to be counted"
I know it could be good for me in this year situation, but in my opinion less than 7 picks means something similar to injury during real tournament

What do you think?

robuś
11-07-2007, 03:48 PM
I don't know
what about "Tie break rules" and rule:
"No pick will be considered better than 0 pts." ?

scarecrows
11-07-2007, 05:42 PM
I propose an additional point to the rules:
i.e. 18.1 "if some qualified player(s) doesn't pick 7 games during whole TMC, alternate player(s) with 7 picks has priority to be counted"
I know it could be good for me in this year situation, but in my opinion less than 7 picks means something similar to injury during real tournament

What do you think?

hmmm, doubt it's possible

what if I have 6 picks and the final doesnt take place because of a withdrawal from an injury in training?

I don't know
what about "Tie break rules" and rule:
"No pick will be considered better than 0 pts." ?

i agree, if 2 players are tied the one with less picks should win

hallso
11-07-2007, 09:17 PM
hmmm, doubt it's possible

what if I have 6 picks and the final doesnt take place because of a withdrawal from an injury in training?

"doesn't pick 7 games" is not the same as "doesn't have 7 valid picks"

i agree, if 2 players are tied the one with less picks should win

but the rule is different, if 2 players are tied, this one with less picks is better only when they both have same consecutive best picks over 0 pts
and this is specific situation, just 7 picks, just 16 players and much higher stake - it's no sense to resign during tournament, even before the final you can reach few places, I understand that, but if someone did, why wouldn't we give a chance to another?
of course not for everyone, but i.e. max 3-4 alternates

Frooty_Bazooty
11-08-2007, 06:22 PM
I think alternates should be counted in case of a no-show, as in one of the qualifiers makes no picks.

But to be honest, Id rather have someone like hallso in who will make all 7 picks rather than someone who couldnt even be arsed to make 7 picks. If they dont even want to make 7 picks at the YEC, they cant really be that bothered by the game.

At the same time, the qualifiers have earned their place and its a bit unfair if someone who actually qualified for the YEC doesnt get their ranking points for it (at least 110 i think which is quite a lot). PAW players need an off season too :p

greatkingrat
11-08-2007, 06:44 PM
I think players should only be replaced if they don't send any picks

Cervantes
11-11-2007, 11:01 PM
I think players should only be replaced if they don't send any picks

I agree

If I only post 6 picks cause I miscalculated I shouldn't be "disqualified"

robuś
12-30-2007, 02:08 PM
added 17.1.1 :)

17.1.1 The World Clocks for ATP tournament cities

The link: http://www.pawforum.ovh.org/worldclocks (http://www.pawforum.ovh.org/worldclocks/)

robuś
01-08-2008, 07:59 PM
17.3 Wildcards - how many of them can I take during the whole year-season?

Five.

Max number of WCs has been diminished from 5 to 3.

17.3 Wildcards - how many of them can I take during the whole year-season?

Three.

greatkingrat
01-12-2008, 11:53 AM
I think we should have the whole set of rules in this thread - not just a supplement. It seems a bit silly to make people go to a different site just to find the complete rules.

robuś
01-15-2008, 07:04 PM
I think we should have the whole set of rules in this thread - not just a supplement. It seems a bit silly to make people go to a different site just to find the complete rules.
done,
next time I will change all wta things for atp

robuś
03-02-2008, 05:52 PM
Change of point 12

from
12. Am I permitted to play under two or more accounts in PAW?

In order to retain the integrity and spirit of PAW, this is not allowed. Players that appear to be suspicious of having accounts transmitting from the same IP, will have their IP’s checked from the MTF.com webmasters and could risk being suspended in PAW.
As for now we waive the following rule:
You must be a member on MTF for at least 2 months to play PAW and also have at least 100 posts.
to
12. Am I permitted to play under two or more accounts in PAW?

In order to retain the integrity and spirit of PAW, this is not allowed. Players that appear to be suspicious of having accounts transmitting from the same IP, will have their IP’s checked from the MTF.com webmasters and could risk being suspended in PAW.

You must be a member on MTF, with a full account's activation.

robuś
03-03-2008, 09:27 PM
Change of point 17.5
from
17.5 Obligation of the WC player's.

A player who asks for a WC and receives it, is obliged to post his/her pick within 12 hours from the moment of posting the request for a WC. Otherwise the WC will be taken away.
to
17.5 Obligation of the WC player's.

A player who asks for a WC and receives it, is obliged to post his/her pick within 12 hours from the moment of posting the request for a WC, otherwise the manager can take the WC away if required (eg.: in the case when there is no WCs left and another player asks for it).
________

Added point 17.6

17.6 What if a player posts picks without commitment or WC?

His picks are not valid until he asks for WC. Therefore posted picks become valid at the moment of question for a WC. So picks for matches played in the meantime are invalid.

robuś
03-04-2008, 09:40 AM
next time I will change all wta things for atp
done, all stuff fixed

DartMarcus
03-12-2008, 01:28 PM
How can I ask for a wildcard?

robuś
03-13-2008, 12:49 PM
How can I ask for a wildcard?
just "ask" in the tournament's thread after deadline ;)

robin7
06-05-2008, 06:47 PM
Hi, I'm new here.

Okay. I just read post #78. That means I can play Wimbledon as long as my account is fully activated.

misyou25
07-24-2008, 12:58 PM
hey, how can i see how many points do i have all in all? is that posted somewhere, like a ranking?

robuś
07-25-2008, 01:23 PM
hey, how can i see how many points do i have all in all? is that posted somewhere, like a ranking?

Entry Ranking (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=115121&page=5)
Champions Race (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=115123&page=3)

Ivanatis
10-05-2008, 01:42 PM
just wondering if there's some kind of gentlemen's agreement in case two players are close to each other before the final and have both one pick left ?

robuś
10-05-2008, 03:31 PM
just wondering if there's some kind of gentlemen's agreement in case two players are close to each other before the final and have both one pick left ?
If the two players are concerned about the gentlemen's agreement - by all means.
The two players can agree that the higher standing player won't "block" the lower one (by posting the same pick).
There were already many debates on that and unfortunately none conclusions, therefore in my tournaments everyone can post a pick e.g.

PAW13: Federer def. Nadal
if player X picks the same then please revers to Nadal def. Federer

-Evita-
01-05-2009, 07:15 PM
I was thinking about the minimum 20 points that are used for the scoring points calculation. All the ATP players's points have been doubled so it makes sense that we increase the minimum amount, too. I'm not sure if we should double it because ATP players will have less points as the year goes by. My suggestion would be to change the 20 to 30 (or 35) and it should be done before the start of next week's tournaments. What do you think?

sdtoot
01-06-2009, 01:10 AM
I was thinking about the minimum 20 points that are used for the scoring points calculation. All the ATP players's points have been doubled so it makes sense that we increase the minimum amount, too. I'm not sure if we should double it because ATP players will have less points as the year goes by. My suggestion would be to change the 20 to 30 (or 35) and it should be done before the start of next week's tournaments. What do you think?

I agree, the minimum 20 points for calculation purposes should now be doubled to 40.

e.g. A player with 2000 'old' ranking points versus a player with the min 20 ranking points would give 100 PAW scoring points to the lower ranked player. A player with 4000 'new' ranking points versus a player with a min 40 ranking points would also give 100 PAW scoring points to the lower ranked player.

robuś
01-06-2009, 05:31 PM
In case of unranked player or a player who has less than 40 ranking pts, he is allocated 40 pts for the calculation of PAW scoring points.

Thanks guys :hug:

jrm
01-09-2010, 09:30 PM
Suggestion: player that commits to tournament but fails to post a single prediction (and not giving the reason why he didn't play that particular week) should be banned of playing next scheduled tournament!

Frooty_Bazooty
04-07-2010, 09:31 PM
17.6 What if a player posts picks without commitment or WC?

His picks are not valid until he asks for WC. Therefore posted picks become valid at the moment of question for a WC. So picks for matches played in the meantime are invalid.

This is ambiguous. In Houston I posted picks and then after the matches had been played I was informed I had forgotten to commit. I asked for a WC and was granted it. From the wording of the rule above, "Therefore posted picks become valid at the moment of question for a WC", when I asked for a WC, my picks should have been validated.

I understand that if it had said "Therefore posted picks become valid at the moment of question for a WC, as long as the matches have not already commenced" but it doesnt say this, it just says they become validated. therefore my picks in Houston should be valid as they were posted before the matches began and I now have a wildcard.

thoughts?

robuś
04-07-2010, 10:09 PM
"So picks for matches played in the meantime are invalid."
It seems to me like You have skipped this line, which is there to avoid the ambiguity.
You wrote:"...,as long as the matches have not already commenced" so You simply named the same part of the rule using other words.

sdtoot
04-08-2010, 12:03 AM
Frooty, The rule is quite clear to me that picks are only valid from the time that you posted your request for a WC, not the time of your original post which had listed your picks.

As Rob says, the wording 'So picks for matches played in the meantime are invalid' is included to ensure that any matches that had started before your WC request are invalid and cannot be counted.

For Example, if the above rule was not adopted then the following situation would be possible:-

Player X has not committed to play any PAW tournament on a particular week which has two PAW tournaments.
He then posts PAW's 1 to 8 in BOTH tournament threads before any matches have started.
He waits until the results of all matches are known and he then asks for a WC at the one tournament where he has scored the higher number of winning PAW picks.

You can understand that this situation cannot be allowed in the PAW game.

Aenea
05-09-2010, 10:20 AM
Once the tournament that you have committed begins (keep reading for instructions of how to commit), go to the PAW thread located in that particular tournament forum (ie if it is Dubai, go to the Dubai tournament forum and then click the PAW Dubai thread). You may also send your picks by PM to the current PAW manager of that tournament.
Robuś :wavey:

Is the manager obliged to post into the thread the picks that were received by PM before the picked match(es) start?

robuś
05-09-2010, 12:26 PM
You may also send your picks by PM to the current PAW manager of that tournament.
This note has been taken from TF (http://www.tennisforum.com/), but I think it's not needed. Not only it's not needed but it can also cause problems. Picks should be posted in the tournament thread, and only in exceptional circumstances on the alternative forum www.pawforum.ovh.org (http://www.pawforum.ovh.org) or by PM.

I suggest to delete this sentense from the rules.

So refering to your question, manager is not obliged to post picks sent by pm before the match(es) start, but it would be simply good if he/she had done that.

Aenea
05-09-2010, 12:36 PM
Thanks so much :wavey:

Yes it would be good if there is a clarification on situations like that. I'll definitely post the picks before the match start so other players are aware of what other contenders have chosen.
Is there any decision on the "picking reverse pick" situation that has been discussed here? I have this and I accepted it http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?p=9892587#post9892587 Is it right?

hallso
05-09-2010, 01:30 PM
imo it's better to accept PMs for last pick from 2 or more contenders to the title than having "reversal pick" situation or things like that (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=136259&page=63)

edit: but I don't think there is any official decision about that

robuś
05-09-2010, 02:51 PM
Please vote in this poll:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=161520

robuś
05-09-2010, 10:45 PM
You may also send your picks by PM to the current PAW manager of that tournament.

This note has been taken from TF (http://www.tennisforum.com/), but I think it's not needed. Not only it's not needed but it can also cause problems. Picks should be posted in the tournament thread, and only in exceptional circumstances on the alternative forum www.pawforum.ovh.org (http://www.pawforum.ovh.org) or by PM.

I suggest to delete this sentense from the rules.


What do you think?
The "fair final pick" case is a separate case and will be discussed later.

Sunfire
05-25-2010, 11:39 AM
I was written off from the PAW Ranking at the beginning of May 2010 (due to my absent for a whole year it seems... yes it's my mistake, and I'm sorry for that), but can I still play this games?
What should I do?
Just make a commitment at the commitment thread?
Thank you so much.

Aenea
05-25-2010, 01:40 PM
You don't need to have ranking to play PAW. Just commit in the commitment thread which tournaments you want to play and you are already in.

GL :wavey:

Sunfire
05-26-2010, 03:00 AM
You don't need to have ranking to play PAW. Just commit in the commitment thread which tournaments you want to play and you are already in.

GL :wavey:

Thank you :worship: sooo much :worship:

Aenea
10-08-2010, 10:04 PM
I have noticed that the ranking points awarded for 56-draw Masters are the same as for 96-draw Masters. Is that correct? Is that how it should be or there is another table for 56-draw Masters?

156mphserve
10-31-2010, 09:07 PM
Thanks so much :wavey:

Yes it would be good if there is a clarification on situations like that. I'll definitely post the picks before the match start so other players are aware of what other contenders have chosen.
Is there any decision on the "picking reverse pick" situation that has been discussed here? I have this and I accepted it http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?p=9892587#post9892587 Is it right?

I know I'm way late to the discussion on this but isn't the whole point of sending a pick by PM so other people close to you on the leaderboard, particularily when it's the top 2 people on the leaderboard, don't know what you're picking? Therefore avoiding the back and forth switching of picks? Also on that idea if one person wasn't going to be around at the start of the match, then the other would get the advantage when it comes to switching picks. Wouldn't the manager posting the pick on the thread totally defeat this purpose? Also, the reverse pick thing, which I saw in this form before I believe...

PAW13 same as "Posters name" pick

that shouldn't be allowed imo, in the rules it states that picks should be posted in a Player A over Player B format not anything else like what I posted above.

Anyway, just came across this and thought I'd give my 2 cents, it's probably way to late but I wanted to state my opinion anyway:wavey:

Aenea
12-15-2010, 03:22 PM
I am even more late than you but honestly I only saw this post today.
Guys, there are only like 2 weeks to the start of the new season and there are no changes to the rules yet though now is the time to discuss whether or not we implement any changes to the rules. I think it is time PAW managers organize better and settle things clear before new season starts.
Is anyone of the managers around? Anyone in for discussion?

sdtoot
12-15-2010, 09:32 PM
The vote for the rule change regarding the sending of final picks by pm to the manager was recently voted unanimously in favour of including this option in the game. Hopefully robuś can incorporate this rule change into post #1 of this thread as soon as possible.

Regarding any other proposed changes for PAW in 2011. The first thing we need to sort out is the make up of the PAW Board for 2011, so that we can organise the key administrative roles in PAW for next year and also discuss any proposed rule changes for 2011. I have started a thread here (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=173655) so that we can quickly finalise the members of the PAW Board for 2011.

Wojtek
12-17-2010, 09:16 PM
I think we need to change ranking system:
1. In the Masters events such like Rome or Toronto. We have ranking points table for 96 players we need to this to 64 or even 56.
2. Rise the points of small tournaments from 200 to 250.
3. If someone doesn't play for 6 months we (PAW board or rank manager) will send pms with question is he/she playing or not. If not he will be eliminated from the ranks.

Aenea
12-21-2010, 03:21 PM
I think 13 picks for 28-players draw is a bit too much
people have to pick almost 50% of matches and if there are any withdrawals (like in Marseille this year) it's even over 50.
in comparison, in GS it's around 20% ; ATP1000 - 30%, ATP250 with 32 - 40%

I know it's not time to discuss this case but I'm writing now before I forget ;)

That's a good point, in the off-season we should discuss this better and fixing a percentage seems a good solution in my opinion.

Or, the ATP could end with the 28-draw shitty idea :p

Unfortunately both of the guys I am quoting have left PAW but still this matter should be discussed IMO.
What do you think about the ranking system? I agree with Wojtek that TMS with 56-draw should not get the same points as those with 96-draw.

sdtoot
12-21-2010, 10:37 PM
I think we need to change ranking system:
1. In the Masters events such like Rome or Toronto. We have ranking points table for 96 players we need to this to 64 or even 56.
2. Rise the points of small tournaments from 200 to 250.
3. If someone doesn't play for 6 months we (PAW board or rank manager) will send pms with question is he/she playing or not. If not he will be eliminated from the ranks.

1. The nine TMS tournaments have always had PAW ranking points distribution for 96 players. When PAW was more popular, we regularly saw 90+ players in the TMS tournaments but there was a gradual drop off in numbers last year from 81 players at Indian Wells down to 68 players at Paris. Assuming there are similar numbers of players in PAW this year, if we drop down to 64 players points distribution, then it will mean that players at the bottom of the leaderboards will not score any PAW ranking points. I think this would be unfair to not score any ranking points because the nine TMS tournaments are mandatory in the PAW Entry and Race rankings. Even with the current 96 distribution, you only get 15 points for 64th place dropping down to 1 point for 96th place, so we are not talking about huge numbers of ranking points here. For this reason, I think it is better to stick with the current points distribution for TMS tournaments.

2. The points awarded in PAW for the title winners have always tried to reflect (as closely as possible) the real points awarded in the ATP rankings system. e.g.

Grand Slams, ATP=2000 PAW=1000
TMS, ATP=1000 PAW=500
ATP500, ATP=500 PAW=300
ATP250, ATP=250 PAW=200

In weeks where there is an ATP500 and an ATP250 tournament, there will normally be >30% more players at the ATP500 because the PAW players are chasing the bigger points. If we increase the winners points for the ATP250 tournaments, then we start to de-value the ATP500 tournaments. Similarly, if we then increase the winners points for the ATP500 tournaments then we start to de-value the TMS tournaments - where do we stop. Therefore I am not in favour of changing the ranking points for the smaller tournaments.

3. Obviously at the moment, a player automatically drops out of the PAW rankings if they do not play PAW for one full year - I assume that the PAW Entry rankings spreadsheet will highlight when a player falls out of the rankings after one year absence. If we look to remove players from the rankings after a six months absence, then I guess it could create unnecessary extra work for hallso to have to notify the PAW Board of this fact. Once again, I don't see any real need to change the current PAW rankings system, but maybe hallso would be a better person to comment on this.

Shaun :wavey:

sdtoot
12-21-2010, 10:59 PM
I think 13 picks for 28-players draw is a bit too much
people have to pick almost 50% of matches and if there are any withdrawals (like in Marseille this year) it's even over 50.
in comparison, in GS it's around 20% ; ATP1000 - 30%, ATP250 with 32 - 40%

I know it's not time to discuss this case but I'm writing now before I forget ;)

I think Greg does raise a very valid point here with the number of PAW picks in 28/32 player draws. It could easily be argued that something like 11 picks would be a more relevant number for the 28/32 player draws and it would slightly reduce the workload for the PAW Managers. However, there is just something (that I cannot put into words) that makes me slightly uncomfortable to look to implement this change. Maybe it is the fact that 13 picks has been always been the norm in PAW since the game was invented and maybe it could cause lots of confusion to the players who have always been used to having a miminimum of 13 picks per tournament. :scratch:

What do others think about this possible change?

robuś
12-29-2010, 08:58 PM
Added point 5.1.
Changed the previous 5.1 to 5.2 and 5.2 to 5.3.

5.1 "Final pick rule"

The last pick (on the final day only) can be, but it is not a must, send via pm to the manager of the tournament. It would be good, not obligatory, but recommended that the player posts on the paw thread informing about his/her move. The manager can then post the picks he/she has received via pm once the final has started or when they are next online.

purtov45
01-08-2011, 02:52 PM
Probably, I have not understood a rule. Explain, please. I have learned, that it is possible to replace the pick. But how to be, if I wish to make replacement in the future? Whether I can cancel now, and replacement to make next day?

sdtoot
01-08-2011, 10:23 PM
Probably, I have not understood a rule. Explain, please. I have learned, that it is possible to replace the pick. But how to be, if I wish to make replacement in the future? Whether I can cancel now, and replacement to make next day?

Yes you can cancel or replace any PAW pick - provided that the match of your original pick has not started. Also, if a particular match does not go ahead (e.g. because a player has been replaced in the draw or there is a walkover) then you can also replace that particular PAW pick. If you cancel a PAW pick then you can make the replacement at any time after the cancelation of the pick (e.g. the next day).

To help the manager, it is better to quote your original pick and then write the replacement pick under the quote. e.g.

Re-PAW1 : Player A over Player B

purtov45
01-10-2011, 04:49 PM
sdtoot
I thank for exhaustive explanation

GameSetMatch!
02-02-2011, 12:58 AM
Can I join?

pedroruizbo
02-26-2011, 06:09 PM
I would like to propose a modification of the rules of the game. For example, in the specific case of a final match , where there are only two players, if one person wrongly names one of the two players , it should be obvious that the pick is referred to that player whose name is wongly written .V.G.: if the final match is to be played between Coria and Gaudio, and I pick " Nalbandian defeats Gaudio" it is obvious that I am saying that Coria will win the match .

jervisjames
04-08-2011, 09:05 AM
I would like to propose a modification of the rules of the game. For example, in the specific case of a final match , where there are only two players, if one person wrongly names one of the two players , it should be obvious that the pick is referred to that player whose name is wongly written .V.G.: if the final match is to be played between Coria and Gaudio, and I pick " Nalbandian defeats Gaudio" it is obvious that I am saying that Coria will win the match .

Sorry to disagree, but if you were thinking of Nalbandian at the time, you may think Nalbandian would beat Gaudio. And if you'd realised beforehand that it was in fact Coria playing, then you may have favoured Gaudio instead.
I dont think this could be a rule just for finals as it could happen in any match during the tournament.

robuś
04-08-2011, 09:07 AM
Agree with jervisjames.

Thunderfish8
04-10-2011, 04:44 PM
I think the tiebreak system is too short. Is there a third step we can use?? On another forum, I'm most likely gonna end up with two players that not only have the same points, but they each have picks worth 18, 16, 15, 14, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 0, 0, 0, and 0 points. They are the top two players in the particular PAW on this other forum so do you guys have any suggestions as for how to break the tie????????????????

sdtoot
04-10-2011, 09:32 PM
On another forum??? Here on mtf PAW the two players would be tied if they had both used the same number of picks.

wee
04-21-2011, 09:57 AM
Thanks for that

hugocnamaral
10-10-2011, 12:32 AM
How many tourneys are contable???

Best 18????

purtov45
11-15-2011, 06:29 AM
robuś
Imho, it is necessary to make small correction in rules, item 5.
To replacePAWn: Your Pick over Your Pick's Opponent

E.g. PAW1: Murray over Federer
on
PAWnn Your Pick over Your Pick's Opponent

E.g. PAW01 Murray over Federer

The same - in items 5.2 and 5.3.
Then the manager can make the link on rules at the description of a format.

robuś
11-15-2011, 07:58 PM
thx purtov, but I don't think it is really necessary

traddles
01-17-2012, 04:50 PM
what happened with picks I made today? why were they written as PAW 22-26 with red? and also accepted as PAW 13-17? Have I done something wrong?

Aenea
01-17-2012, 06:54 PM
what happened with picks I made today? why were they written as PAW 22-26 with red? and also accepted as PAW 13-17? Have I done something wrong?

Hello.

For questions like that turn to the tournament's manager. S/he's the one who can answer you.

purtov45
01-31-2012, 02:24 AM
Question on a tie-break-rule.
1. The greater number of correct picks.
What is "correct picks"?
I assumed, that "correct picks" = "win picks" + "lost picks".
N .Player..........P.. W.. L.. Pts Avg Max win pick
25.JeremyEli_______26 11 15 171 6,6 27
26.Hensafmurrafter_26 15 11 171 6,6 16
Here fifty-fifty, on 26.
Hensafmurrafter considers, that "correct picks" the same, that "win picks".
Who from us is right?

robuś
01-31-2012, 10:44 AM
Hensafmurrafter was right :) "correct picks" = "win picks"
I will fix/update the rules

purtov45
01-31-2012, 02:29 PM
Hensafmurrafter was right :) "correct picks" = "win picks"
I will fix/update the rules
Thx, I shall correct in a thread AO :wavey:

J99
05-01-2012, 12:01 AM
Why can't we make all our picks from the same round, it doesn't make any sense to me?

Aenea
05-31-2012, 07:32 PM
Why can't we make all our picks from the same round, it doesn't make any sense to me?

Wow that's an interesting question really.
Some time ago I was very interested in PAW history and read almost the entire PAW archive on WTA site where this game had started introduced by Simon. You know in the beginning it had been a simple game with very simple rules and the one about which you are asking here had not been part of PAW. Then the game had started to grow, many people had joined and more and more rules had been introduced and implemented. At one point there had been that discussion about having a qualifying PAW for entering MD of PAW as there had been a cut-off system. Many things in PAW (like the formula for calculating points) had been kept a secret and had not been discussed publicly. I have not seen that stipulation being discussed. So how and why it had been implemented I don't know. But all this had happened very long ago, 2003-2004.

I also have a question - about WC. What if a player asks for a WC after the deadline, receives one but for some reasons doesn't play in the tournament? Then what, do we count this WC towards player's 3 allowed WCs or not? And this is not the situation discussed in 17.5 in the PAW rules where the manager can take the WC back if the player doesn't post any picks in the next 12 hours. This is in case there are more than 5 players asking for WCs. But what if this is the only WC player and the manager has no reason to take the WC back. So the WC was received but was not used - then does it count?

purtov45
06-05-2012, 03:01 AM
I offer for discussion

Variation in item 2 of rules.

(For instance, you might choose 4 First Round Matches, 4 Second Round matches, 2 Quarter Finals, both Semis and the Final. Or you could choose 12 First Round matches and the Final.)

>> The only stipulation is that you may not make all of your picks in the same round.

To replace on

(For instance, you might choose 4 First Round Matches, 4 Second Round matches, 2 Quarter Finals, both Semis and the Final. Or you could choose 13 First Round matches.)


Variation in rules of WC: to change 17.2, to exclude 17.5 and 17.6.

Wildcards

17.2 Wildcards - how many of them are available in the tournament, and when are they granted?

The number of WCs is limited to 5 per tournament. Additionally the manager can grant extra WCs for new players only.

WCs are given to players who have not made a commitment until the deadline or wish to change their tournament after that. If the player has made pick without commitment, it is considered, that it has asked WC. Obvious inquiry WC is not necessary, and if it is made without picks it is ignored.

17.3 Wildcards - how many of them can I take during the whole year-season?

Three.

17.4 When can I withdraw from one event and switch to another?

You can do that only if you don't have any picks posted at the moment (and later) of the beginning of the 1st match main draw of the tournament from which you want to withdraw.

Aenea
06-05-2012, 08:59 PM
I offer for discussion
Variation in item 2 of rules.
To replace on
Variation in rules of WC: to change 17.2, to exclude 17.5 and 17.6.

:scratch:
how will those changes improve the game? What is the purpose for them to be implemented?

purtov45
06-10-2012, 05:08 AM
:scratch:
how will those changes improve the game? What is the purpose for them to be implemented?
The rule about WC is intended for managers.
When I am the manager, I am strained with complex bureaucratic rules of granting WC. I cannot understand, why cannot simply write
PAW01 Player1 over Player2
Also should write
WC please
PAW01 Player1 over Player2
The offered variations release the manager from extra work.

Aenea
06-10-2012, 06:59 PM
The rule about WC is intended for managers.
When I am the manager, I am strained with complex bureaucratic rules of granting WC. I cannot understand, why cannot simply write

Also should write

The offered variations release the manager from extra work.

:rolleyes:

this is not bureaucratic at all, this is giving the player a choice whether or not s/he wants to play using 1 of her/his WCs. Sometimes players post picks thinking they have committed to this tournament. When you tell them they should be a WC they have to be free to choose. What you suggest means you as a manager decide for them that they have to use 1 of their WCs. What happens if someone doesn't want to waste a WC on a 250 tournament? Picks are posted, WC is granted automatically -> WC is counted used. No going back.

IMO it is not for the manager to decide when the players should use their WCs. I have had players who once they learned they'll need to play as WC they just didn't play, probably keeping their WCs for bigger tournaments.

I am against your suggestion because it deprives the players from choice. IMO players have to state clearly they want to spend 1 of their WCs on that specific tournament.

Cava
06-10-2012, 07:29 PM
Agree w/ Aenea here about asking for a WC.
It is player's responsibility to sign up for tournaments/ask for a WC if they have forgotten.

purtov45
06-11-2012, 04:04 AM
I not only the manager, but also the player too.
Let's assume, that I became very forgetful.
I have forgotten to commits.
I have forgotten to find myself in the list of commitments.
And certainly I do not remember, how many WC I used in it to year.
And nevertheless I do pick PAW01.
Well what for the manager asks me, whether I want WC?... While I shall answer, half of tournament will pass...
The manager should regret me and give me WC automatically! :)

purtov45
06-11-2012, 06:59 AM
Agree w/ Aenea here about asking for a WC.
It is player's responsibility to sign up for tournaments/ask for a WC if they have forgotten.
Well, the player bears the responsibility for ask for a WC.
Then picks, made before to ask, it is necessary to ignore all.
Item 17.6 maybe such:

17.6 What if a player posts picks without commitment or WC?

His picks are not valid. After inquiry WC to make picks follows anew.

Aenea
06-11-2012, 09:12 AM
I not only the manager, but also the player too.
Let's assume, that I became very forgetful.
I have forgotten to commits.
I have forgotten to find myself in the list of commitments.
And certainly I do not remember, how many WC I used in it to year.
And nevertheless I do pick PAW01.

Yeah and what is next for the managers - posting picks for those who have forgotten to post picks? Managers' job is to manage the tournament not to look after PAW players' successes. It is players' responsibility to join a tournament if they want to play it. Managers are not school teachers and this is not a kindergarten to hold players' hand through the entire tournament. If they want to play they know what they have to do.
For me this is the end of story. I have stated my opinion and there are no arguments that can change it. I have looked this situation from both managers' and players' POV and my opinion that I have already expressed is final.
If one becomes very forgetful (forgets to commit, forgets to check Commitments list, forgets to ask for WC) s/he just doesn’t play that specific tournament.
And if you don't remember how many WC you have used you can always check the Wildcards thread (http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=115122). It is there for that purpose – managers and players to check on the WC. As you can see Paw Board is keeping track for those who are very forgetful.

purtov45
06-11-2012, 10:31 AM
It was interesting to me to find out, why rules such.
Thanks Aenea for a detailed explanation. It seems, I have understood, and this understanding will facilitate to me management in the future.

Aenea
06-11-2012, 10:13 PM
It was interesting to me to find out, why rules such.
Thanks Aenea for a detailed explanation. It seems, I have understood, and this understanding will facilitate to me management in the future.

All my posts were only presenting my opinion and nothing more.

jrm
08-06-2012, 03:55 PM
Are you allowed to pick 16 matches in round 1 in a tournament where you have 16 picks? I know in slams is not allowed to pick 26 in round one! And if player doesn't respond, which pick is invalid - last one (PAW16) or last one played?

Aenea
08-06-2012, 04:46 PM
The rules say

>> The only stipulation is that you may not make all of your picks in the same round.

without specifying a tournament so I guess it applies for all tournaments no matter MM, Masters or GS.

As for the pick - I scratch the last one from the set. I had a case like that before and Shaun said I should ask the player but if the player doesn't choose which pick is to be deleted to scratch the last one as invalid.

jrm
08-06-2012, 04:50 PM
thank you for the anwser

Aenea
08-06-2012, 04:55 PM
btw this stipulation is puzzling me. I don't understand why is it there. Some time ago we disscussed it here with a player but we couldn't find a logical explanation for its existence.

jrm
08-06-2012, 05:47 PM
i just wish WTA and ATP PAW had identical rules since i'm doing both sides

sdtoot
08-06-2012, 10:21 PM
The rule stating that all picks cannot be made from the same round is identical for both ATP and WTA PAW. Don't ask me why the rule exists but I guess it has been in existance from the original introduction of PAW onto both forums.

Tina - yes the last pick (PAW16) would be invalid in this case for a 16 pick tournament.

Aenea
08-11-2012, 11:12 AM
When it was introduced to MTF, probably but not when it was originally introduced to WTAWorld now known as tennisforum

this is the introduction (http://www.tennisforum.com/archive/index.php/index.php?t-7369.html) in 2002

PICK-A-WINNER (PAW) - INTRODUCTION

Welcome to Pick-A-Winner (PAW), the Predictions game!

The rules are simple: Just pick the winners of any 13 Main Draw matches. You choose the matches and you pick the winners. You get more points for picking low-ranked winners than for picking high-ranked winners.


then in 2003 people who have picked the game on tennisforum from Simon have decided (http://www.tennisforum.com/archive/index.php/index.php?t-93552.html) to change the original rules

and in the end of 2003 the new rules (as we know them now) have been introduced (http://www.tennisforum.com/archive/index.php/index.php?t-95734.html) and were in use from 2004.

I never found info why have they decided to come up with that stipulation. On the previous page I have written a post about that.

Daniel_amr
09-21-2012, 03:07 PM
Hi, is tehere a max qty of tournaments to be played during a season? I mean, similar to ATP rankings

sdtoot
09-21-2012, 03:31 PM
Hi, is tehere a max qty of tournaments to be played during a season? I mean, similar to ATP rankings

You can play at one PAW tournament per week throughout the ATP Season but the PAW Rankings use your points scores from the following:-

Total points in the ranking is the sum of 4 Grand Slams, 8 best of ATP1000 (12 mandatory tournaments) and 6 best of the rest.

Yoav
09-24-2012, 02:08 PM
You can play at one PAW tournament per week throughout the ATP Season but the PAW Rankings use your points scores from the following:-

Total points in the ranking is the sum of 4 Grand Slams, 8 best of ATP1000 (12 mandatory tournaments) and 6 best of the rest.

3 questions please:
1. what are the 12 mandatory tournaments? i assume that the 1000 tournaments (total of 9) + which 3 more?
2. is the olympics a mandatory tournament?
3. is the rankings for the race to london are the same? (4 grand slams, 8 best of ATP1000 ect...)
thanks :wavey:

sdtoot
09-24-2012, 04:36 PM
3 questions please:
1. what are the 12 mandatory tournaments? i assume that the 1000 tournaments (total of 9) + which 3 more?
2. is the olympics a mandatory tournament?
3. is the rankings for the race to london are the same? (4 grand slams, 8 best of ATP1000 ect...)
thanks :wavey:

1. 4 Grand Slams + 8 of 9 ATP1000's (Best 8 are used for Rankings)
2. No.
3. Yes, both Rankings use the same points structure (12 Mand + 6 best of the rest). However, if you qualify for the London ATP Masters at the end of the Season, then ranking points achieved at London will count as a 19th tournament in the Entry Rankings.

Yoav
09-24-2012, 04:43 PM
1. 4 Grand Slams + 8 of 9 ATP1000's (Best 8 are used for Rankings)
2. No.
3. Yes, both Rankings use the same points structure (12 Mand + 6 best of the rest). However, if you qualify for the London ATP Masters at the end of the Season, then ranking points achieved at London may count as one of your 'six best of the rest'.

if my 9th ATP1000 result is better than my 6th best of the rest result, it still won't count in the ranking?

sdtoot
09-24-2012, 07:22 PM
if my 9th ATP1000 result is better than my 6th best of the rest result, it still won't count in the ranking?

It will count as one of your 6 best of the rest.

Yoav
09-24-2012, 10:47 PM
It will count as one of your 6 best of the rest.

thanks for the info :wavey::worship:

supertom
01-03-2013, 12:27 PM
I have a question: I am currently playing for PAW in Chennai.
Rik. (manager) is leading with 1 point over me.
But it seems that we have the same picks for the next two matches and maybe for the next picks.
Imagining the situation remains the same until the final, what is the rule if the manager to which we can send the last pick is the competitor.. :D

Rik.
01-03-2013, 12:38 PM
I have a question: I am currently playing for PAW in Chennai.
Rik. (manager) is leading with 1 point over me.
But it seems that we have the same picks for the next two matches and maybe for the next picks.
Imagining the situation remains the same until the final, what is the rule if the manager to which we can send the last pick is the competitor.. :D

In that case I will ask someone from the board to receive our final pick :wavey:

sdtoot
01-03-2013, 02:08 PM
In that case I will ask someone from the board to receive our final pick :wavey:

You can both send your final picks to me if required.

purtov45
01-03-2013, 02:21 PM
1. 4 Grand Slams + 8 of 9 ATP1000's (Best 8 are used for Rankings)
2. No.
3. Yes, both Rankings use the same points structure (12 Mand + 6 best of the rest). However, if you qualify for the London ATP Masters at the end of the Season, then ranking points achieved at London may count as one of your 'six best of the rest'.
Hello Shaun,

Greg counted up ranking differently, for TOP-16 summarized 19 results, for the others 18. I shall reduce points for TOP-16?

Rik.
01-03-2013, 02:26 PM
Hello Shaun,

Greg counted up ranking differently, for TOP-16 summarized 19 results, for the others 18. I shall reduce points for TOP-16?

I think that's because of the World tour finals which is only for the top 16, that's why they got 19 results and the other players have 18 results.

sdtoot
01-04-2013, 12:38 AM
Hello Shaun,

Greg counted up ranking differently, for TOP-16 summarized 19 results, for the others 18. I shall reduce points for TOP-16?

Toivy,

Yes, Greg was correct. You count 18 tournaments plus the World Tour Final points for the top 16 players:-

4 Grand Slams + Best 8 of ATP100's + Best 6 of the rest + ATP World Tour Final points.

I have corrected my post #153 above to reflect this.

jrm
02-15-2013, 01:44 PM
Question: if someone makes a mistake (wrong player in odd, picking one match twice with reverse winners) is it managers responsibility to contact player or not?

robuś
02-15-2013, 01:53 PM
Responsibility? Of course not.

supertom
02-15-2013, 04:12 PM
My view is that you have to notice it to the player on the thread.. After it is the player responsibility to adapt :D

robuś
02-15-2013, 04:38 PM
Responsibility? Of course not.
Pointing out the mistake in the picks summary should be enough.

Wolmas
04-08-2014, 05:51 AM
Question: How do managers come to the total points assigned for a given match?

purtov45
04-08-2014, 09:17 AM
Question: How do managers come to the total points assigned for a given match?
Ask about a specific match, it will be easier to answer.

purtov45
04-08-2014, 09:19 AM
Question: How do managers come to the total points assigned for a given match?
Ask about a specific match, it will be easier to answer.

Wolmas
04-08-2014, 10:00 AM
Ask about a specific match, it will be easier to answer.



There was no specific match in mind, I'm just wondering how the points are distributed. Let's say Novak Djokovic faces back to back players, each ranked just outside the top 100 in his first two matches in a Masters 1000, i'll call them Players A and B. He's played each player multiple times, dominated them; the points distribution for picking Player A vs Djokovic is 42-3. The points for picking Player B vs Djokovic in the subsequent round is 36-2.

So, I'm just wondering how exactly are the exact points determined? What makes a manager choose 42 instead of 36 points for the upset pick?

robuś
04-08-2014, 10:06 AM
So, I'm just wondering how exactly are the exact points determined? What makes a manager choose 42 instead of 36 points for the upset pick?
Take a look in this thread :)
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=379993

purtov45
04-08-2014, 11:13 AM
You are at a loss to name a specific match? Well, I shall choose.
Second round, Isner vs Brown
Ranking points - in post #5
Isner 2715
Brown 580
2715 / 580 = 4.681...
sqrt(4.681...) = 2.163...
1 / 2.163... = 0.462...
2.163... * 10 -> 21
0.462... * 10 -> 5
Isner vs Brown (5-21)

purtov45
04-08-2014, 11:20 AM
Ups... no rounded
2.163... * 10 -> 22
Isner vs Brown (5-22)

Wolmas
04-08-2014, 10:51 PM
Take a look in this thread :)
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=379993

Thank you! I'm sure I checked that thread, how I missed the points formula the first time, I don't know.

Wolmas
04-08-2014, 10:56 PM
You are at a loss to name a specific match? Well, I shall choose.
Second round, Isner vs Brown
Ranking points - in post #5
Isner 2715
Brown 580
2715 / 580 = 4.681...
sqrt(4.681...) = 2.163...
1 / 2.163... = 0.462...
2.163... * 10 -> 21
0.462... * 10 -> 5
Isner vs Brown (5-21)

Thanks anyway, but I was pointed to a thread that explains it.