3 of 4 semifinalist of RG are not claycourt players [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

3 of 4 semifinalist of RG are not claycourt players

casabe
06-08-2006, 09:27 PM
I know they are the 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the world but...Roger Federer isnt a claycourt player, he likes much more grass and hard. Ljubicic is playing better in clay, but it is definitly not his best surface. I think and easy draw help him to be in semis. Nalbandian is from Argentina and 90% of the courts there are clay, but he played all his life in a hard court in his town and he said in public that he prefer hard courts than clay.

R.Federer
06-08-2006, 09:28 PM
I would say Roger and david can very reasonably be called claycourters based both on their upbringing and results on clay in the last several years

DrJules
06-08-2006, 09:39 PM
David and Roger are both very good on all surfaces. Therefore, title is slightly deceptive. Only Ivan is not a claycouter.

alfonsojose
06-08-2006, 09:42 PM
I guess he meant "clay court specialists" :shrug:

robinhood
06-08-2006, 09:49 PM
Surely three of the four players produce their best results on other surfaces.

fenomeno2111
06-08-2006, 09:50 PM
So what? It's obvious that Roger and Nalby prefer to play on hard but that doesn't make them alien to the dirt.

virex
06-08-2006, 09:51 PM
it just means that they´re very good

Jimnik
06-08-2006, 09:56 PM
Similar to the semi-final line-up ten years ago.

scoobs
06-08-2006, 09:59 PM
Good to see - I've thought it a shame that the French Open has tended to produce wildly different results to the other slams. It's great to see truly all-court players as contenders for all the slams.

oneandonlyhsn
06-08-2006, 10:02 PM
The true clay court players have sucked for a long time now, not suprised that the all rounded players are doing well on the dirt (Fed and Nalby)

Chocobo
06-08-2006, 10:07 PM
Well, Nalbandian won the majority of his titles on clay (not the most important one, though), and is for the second time of his career in SF of Roland-Garros (whereas he made the SF "only" once in each other GS), so results-wise clay is probably his best surface. But honestly, this guy is equally good on all surfaces.

As for Ljubicic, he made at least the QF in all three master series on clay + RG, which few active players have made, and he said in an interview yesterday that he prefers clay to grass and even outdoor hardcourts. The only surface where he's really really more at ease than on clay is indoor harcourts/carpet.

Chloe le Bopper
06-08-2006, 10:52 PM
Whether or not he's a claycourter, Fed is still the second best player on clay in the world :shrug: And Nalbandian is probably top 5 these days :shrug:

robrulz5
06-08-2006, 11:22 PM
All 4 of the top 4 players can play on clay while only 3 of them can play on other surfaces...

Clara Bow
06-08-2006, 11:34 PM
All 4 of the top 4 players can play on clay while only 3 of them can play on other surfaces...

Once again, Rafa's Master's series titles must not have happened....was it all just a dream? ;)

Yes- Nadal has not progressed far in other GS- but I think his hard court titles show that he "can play" on a surface besides clay. In fact- he beat two of the semifinalists in finals on non-clay surfaces. I think the fact that Rafa has four titles on hard show that he "can play" on that surface.

scoobs
06-08-2006, 11:37 PM
Once again, Rafa's Master's series titles must not have happened....was it all just a dream? ;)

Yes- Nadal has not progressed far in other GS- but I think his hard court titles show that he "can play" on a surface besides clay. In fact- he beat two of the semis in finals on non-clay surfaces.
I chose not to respond to the obvious provocation :)

Clara Bow
06-08-2006, 11:39 PM
I chose not to respond to the obvious provocation :)

You are a better person than me. ;) I am easily baited - must be because I was teased a lot by my older siblings as a child. Now I await the dismissal of the MC titles, etc....

scoobs
06-08-2006, 11:41 PM
You are a better person than me. ;) I am easily baited - must be because I was teased a lot by my older siblings as a child. Now I await the dismissal of the MC titles, etc....
I can understand if people want to attack Rafa's Grand Slam record for the other three but surely it's dumb attacking his surface record, which is pretty impressive for hardcourts.

DrJules
06-09-2006, 12:00 AM
All 4 of the top 4 players can play on clay while only 3 of them can play on other surfaces...

Not true.

Rafael is probably the least impressive of the 3 away from a clay court. However, only marginally behind Ivan and David.

ys
06-09-2006, 12:10 AM
I was saying it from the very start.. This year the French mastered the surface that would not give much of an advantage to claycourt specialists. Way to go!

DrJules
06-09-2006, 12:14 AM
I was saying it from the very start.. This year the French mastered the surface that would not give much of an advantage to claycourt specialists. Way to go!

Organisers realise medium paced courts give best tennis.

ys
06-09-2006, 12:16 AM
Organisers realise medium paced courts give best tennis.

Absolutely. It is no fun to watch two obscure claycourters masturbate on court moonballing each other for hours..

atheneglaukopis
06-09-2006, 03:17 AM
MTF rule # whatever we're on: Nadal has never beaten anyone outside of a claycourt. In fact, if he's not on clay, he doesn't even know which end of the racquet to hold.
MTF rule # whatever we're on + 1: It is possible to get lucky 58 times in a row.

Johnny Groove
06-09-2006, 03:33 AM
MTF rule # whatever we're on: Nadal has never beaten anyone outside of a claycourt. In fact, if he's not on clay, he doesn't even know which end of the racquet to hold.
MTF rule # whatever we're on + 1: It is possible to get lucky 58 times in a row.

they both fall under Law 18 of double standards and stereotypes, i believe :wavey:

soraya
06-09-2006, 03:44 AM
I chose not to respond to the obvious provocation :)

and I will follow your good judgement;)

atheneglaukopis
06-09-2006, 03:44 AM
they both fall under Law 18 of double standards and stereotypes, i believe :wavey:
Okay, then they're corollaries.

Chloe le Bopper
06-09-2006, 03:46 AM
Once again, Rafa's Master's series titles must not have happened....was it all just a dream? ;)

Yes- Nadal has not progressed far in other GS- but I think his hard court titles show that he "can play" on a surface besides clay. In fact- he beat two of the semifinalists in finals on non-clay surfaces. I think the fact that Rafa has four titles on hard show that he "can play" on that surface.

Eh, let 'em have their fun. They used to have the same fun with JCF until he made 'em eat it ;)

Not to compare Nadal and JCF, I'm just sayin'. There is little reason to believe that Nadal will not eventually break through at one of the hardcourt slams. They're running on borrowed time :)

Chloe le Bopper
06-09-2006, 03:48 AM
I can understand if people want to attack Rafa's Grand Slam record for the other three but surely it's dumb attacking his surface record, which is pretty impressive for hardcourts.

He certainly has more Masters Series on hardcourts than the apparently vastly superior hard court player, James Blake.

Blake is such a hideous match-up for Rafa that this is almost a bad example... but I"m just sayin'.

robrulz5
06-09-2006, 03:48 AM
A good players career is always looked back on and the main thing that is looked at is how many slams a player won.

Rafa won't do much at the US Open, the courts are too fast for him. He is allergic to grass but his biggest chance other than Roland Garros is in Australia where the courts have been quite slow the last few years as everyone probably knows after Lleyton's dummy spit.

I think Rafa needs to start playing well at other Grand Slams because it won't be long until there is another great claycourter ready to knock him off. Just like Kuerten was almost unbeatable at Roland Garros and how Rafa is now, the guard will change again.

So he needs to make the most of it now and also start adapting his game to other grand slams which he should be able to do if he puts his mind and talent to the task.

Chloe le Bopper
06-09-2006, 03:50 AM
Not true.

Rafael is probably the least impressive of the 3 away from a clay court. However, only marginally behind Ivan and David.

Indeed.. though David's consistency in the slams can only be matched by (and obviously beaten by!) Federer, if we're to compare the 4 :p

btw, is it my imagination or does Rafa have more indoor masters series titles than the vastly superior indoor player, Ivan? ;)

Chloe le Bopper
06-09-2006, 03:53 AM
Rafa won't do much at the US Open, the courts are too fast for him.

When will people stop saying this about players who start out well on clay but clearly have potential for improvement on other surfaces... especially players who have won hardcourt titles? :shrug:

I understand that the USO is faster than Montreal... but seriously.

These comments are just so foolish.

Oh well, JCF made them eat it, so can Rafa ;)

He is allergic to grass but his biggest chance other than Roland Garros is in Australia where the courts have been quite slow the last few years as everyone probably knows after Lleyton's dummy spit.

AO is his best shot, I don't dispute that.

Chloe le Bopper
06-09-2006, 03:54 AM
I was saying it from the very start.. This year the French mastered the surface that would not give much of an advantage to claycourt specialists. Way to go!

Hee.

This way it seems to keep everybody happy. :p

tennis_freak67
06-09-2006, 04:01 AM
btw, is it my imagination or does Rafa have more indoor masters series titles than the vastly superior indoor player, Ivan? ;)

btw, is it my imagination or does Roddick have more claycourt titles than the vastly superior claycourt player, Nalbandian? ;)

ys
06-09-2006, 04:02 AM
btw, is it my imagination or does Rafa have more indoor masters series titles than the vastly superior indoor player, Ivan? ;)

Generally, Madrid does not count as such.. :p Even Ferrero used to win it .. over Federer of all people.. It must be a camouflaged claycourt..

idolwatcher1
06-09-2006, 04:02 AM
David and Roger are both very good on all surfaces. Therefore, title is slightly deceptive. Only Ivan is not a claycouter.
And yet, Ivan "played exclusively on clay until he was 15"... :p Ivan says, "When you grow up on something, you always feel comfortable on that"... [source: NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/sports/tennis/08tennis.html) ]

The fact is, ALL four of the semi-finalists are comfortable on clay (even if they are more comfortable on other surfaces, or have not had the best results on clay in the past) and they each move very well on it... add to that, each of them are talented players who aren't low on confidence... that always helps ;)

Who are "claycourt players"?? Players who are more dominant on clay than any other surface? If so, even GREAT players who have posted really good results on clay (Federer) will never be called a "claycourt player"... but this doesn't mean he's a bad player on clay :)

robrulz5
06-09-2006, 04:03 AM
When will people stop saying this about players who start out well on clay but clearly have potential for improvement on other surfaces... especially players who have won hardcourt titles? :shrug:

I understand that the USO is faster than Montreal... but seriously.

These comments are just so foolish.

Oh well, JCF made them eat it, so can Rafa ;)



AO is his best shot, I don't dispute that.


I think Rafa needs to go for his serves at the USO as most of the time he just uses his serve to begin the point and doesn't use it to his advantage too often.

The only problem Rafa will have here in Australia is if the new AO boss bows down to Hewitt's wish of having lightning quick courts.

ys
06-09-2006, 04:03 AM
btw, is it my imagination or does Roddick have more claycourt titles than the vastly superior claycourt player, Nalbandian? ;)

Still short of incredible Sampras claycourt success.. :lol:

Chloe le Bopper
06-09-2006, 05:39 AM
btw, is it my imagination or does Roddick have more claycourt titles than the vastly superior claycourt player, Nalbandian? ;)

While we were both just being smart asses, you have to admit that Houston does not a masters series title... or final.... or even semifinal... make ;)

Merton
06-09-2006, 05:41 AM
Mardy Fish is superior to Boris Becker on clay.

Chloe le Bopper
06-09-2006, 05:42 AM
Generally, Madrid does not count as such.. :p Even Ferrero used to win it .. over Federer of all people.. It must be a camouflaged claycourt..

:p

oz_boz
06-09-2006, 08:22 AM
If it is true that the RG courts are getting faster, it really irritates me. C'mon, Wimbly is slowed down, RG speeded up...OK I like all-surface players but it would be unfun if the speed span got even shorter.

Action Jackson
06-09-2006, 08:42 AM
If it is true that the RG courts are getting faster, it really irritates me. C'mon, Wimbly is slowed down, RG speeded up...OK I like all-surface players but it would be unfun if the speed span got even shorter.

It is true, they have been speeding up the clay since 1995. They were overjoyed Muster didn't win in 1996. :)

Yes, the clay has got quicker and the grass has got slower.

oz_boz
06-09-2006, 08:53 AM
It is true, they have been speeding up the clay since 1995. They were overjoyed Muster didn't win in 1996. :)

Yes, the clay has got quicker and the grass has got slower.

I hope they are finished with the speed change.

Soon it is time to see if it is fast enough to prevent the Muster clone from winning. I don't think so.

Action Jackson
06-09-2006, 08:59 AM
I hope they are finished with the speed change.

Soon it is time to see if it is fast enough to prevent the Muster clone from winning. I don't think so.

There are ways of quickening the court like putting less clay down is one, this in addition to the direction it is swept and also if the weather is nice and warm, with less clay, then 1996 is what happens and maybe every 10 years there will be an RG like this. Plus using a lighter ball in this case helps as well.

For the record as much as I hate grass and that is a lot. I can see them slowing it down a bit, but here was the problem. They loved the whole serve fests in the mid 90s, so in their vigilance to try and stop that, they tempered with the clay as well.

madmanfool
06-09-2006, 09:05 AM
And yet, Ivan "played exclusively on clay until he was 15"... :p Ivan says, "When you grow up on something, you always feel comfortable on that"... [source: NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/08/sports/tennis/08tennis.html) ]



That's impossible, he must have played indoors during the winter!? Or he didn't play tennis for half a year, that i don't believe?

Federer and Nalbandian are so alround, the can play on anything. So it's hard to say they are some sort of court specialist

oz_boz
06-09-2006, 09:12 AM
There are ways of quickening the court like putting less clay down is one, this in addition to the direction it is swept and also if the weather is nice and warm, with less clay, then 1996 is what happens and maybe every 10 years there will be an RG like this. Plus using a lighter ball in this case helps as well.

For the record as much as I hate grass and that is a lot. I can see them slowing it down a bit, but here was the problem. They loved the whole serve fests in the mid 90s, so in their vigilance to try and stop that, they tempered with the clay as well.

Plus a few of the the clay courters are on a slump, Gaudio, Coria, Ferrero a.o.

Nice explanation of court conditions, thanks! I didn't like Wimbly in the 90's either. But I somehow enjoy Ivo's game :lol:.

RonE
06-09-2006, 09:16 AM
Perhaps what the thread starter meant was that 3 the semifinalists are not EXCLUSIVELY claycourt players however that in itself is not true considering Nadal does pretty well on hard and indoors too.

As for the other three, yes perhaps their weakest surface is clay. But if you look at Nalbandian and Roger:

David has made (at least) two semifinal showings at RG one R16, one final and one semifinal showing in Rome, at least one semifinal showing in Hamburg that I can remember, titles in Estroil (2) and Munich.

Roger has made at least a final showing in EACH clay master series event ( a feat only done by Rios, Guga, Ferrero and Corretja in recent years from what I recall off the top of my head)- once in Monte Carlo, two in Rome and three in Hamburg and has won those three Hamburg showings losing the other three. And now he has made two consecutive semifinal (at least) showings in RG, one R16 and one quarterfinal. Plus he has won titles in Munich and Gstaad.

I think most "claycourters" would die to have those kind of results on their favourite surface at which they specialize :)

Action Jackson
06-09-2006, 09:19 AM
Plus a few of the the clay courters are on a slump, Gaudio, Coria, Ferrero a.o.

Nice explanation of court conditions, thanks! I didn't like Wimbly in the 90's either. But I somehow enjoy Ivo's game :lol:.

At the same time it's not like Federer and Nalle are clay clowns at all far from it. Here is my take on it Federer wouldn't be as good as he is, if he did not have the clay grounding as a kid, irrespective of whether his game is suited to clay or not.

Ingen problem min gode herr om grusbaner. :p

MrGasa
06-09-2006, 09:27 AM
That's impossible, he must have played indoors during the winter!? Or he didn't play tennis for half a year, that i don't believe?

Federer and Nalbandian are so alround, the can play on anything. So it's hard to say they are some sort of court specialist

In this part of Europe there is a very few indoor facilities, usuall winter facilities for training is clay court with a baloon over.

madmanfool
06-09-2006, 09:34 AM
oh dear, indoor clay is without any doubt the worst surface to play on. I know from own experience. But it does play a hole lot faster then an outdoor clay court. If the indoor courts are in a good shape you can slide on them, but mostly they're not. Clay needs sun!

Monteque
06-09-2006, 11:09 AM
All 4 of the top 4 players can play on clay while only 3 of them can play on other surfaces...
:haha: :haha:

I guess i know who's the unlucky one.

oz_boz
06-09-2006, 11:18 AM
:haha: :haha:

I guess i know who's the unlucky one.

Must be Ljubo or Nalbandian, they have never won a hardcourt TMS.