Will Roddick be able to defend his grass court points? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will Roddick be able to defend his grass court points?

All_Slam_Andre
06-08-2006, 10:00 AM
How do you all think that Roddick will do at Queen's and Wimbledon this year? He does have a lot of points of defend. It is a shame about his decline since 2003/2004, when he was the second best player in the world, and expected to beat everyone apart from Federer on a grass and hard court. In 2005 he was 'figured out' and declined massively on the hard courts, but still managed to keep his level at Wimbledon and remain a major force. Hopefully this year isn't the year where he also declines on grass.

mandoura
06-08-2006, 10:15 AM
I certainly hope so. I certainly will be praying and crossing everything there is to cross for him. Go Andy. :)

bad gambler
06-08-2006, 11:11 AM
Yes - because I can count the number of active players who can actually play well on grass on one hand.

adee-gee
06-08-2006, 11:27 AM
He's still the 2nd best grass courter in the world. I do fear for him though.

dkw
06-08-2006, 11:48 AM
I think this is Andy's year at Wimbly... I'm rooting for you kid, so get it together.

Halba
06-08-2006, 12:07 PM
as long as his serve holds he will be fine on a grasscourt as his serve will win him all the points

Agassi Aces
06-08-2006, 12:30 PM
NO!

Purple Rainbow
06-08-2006, 12:32 PM
No, he won´t.
I am pretty sure there are more people than Roger who can beat Andy on grass this year.

guille&tati4life
06-08-2006, 12:35 PM
No!

He's going to be losing points.

All_Slam_Andre
06-08-2006, 01:04 PM
So far this year:
- He has lost points at the Australian Open (05-Semi-final, 06-4th round)
- He has lost points at San Jose (05-Winner, 06-Semi-Final)
- He has lost points at Memphis (05-Semi-Final, 06-Quarter Final)
- He has lost points at Indian Wells (05-Semi-Final, 06-4th Round
- He has gained points at Miami (05-2nd round, 06-Quarter-Final)
- He has lost points at Houston (05-Winner, 06-Quarter-Final)
- He has gained points at Rome (05-3rd Round, 06-Quarter Final)
- He has lost points at Hamburg (05-1st Round, 06-Did not compete)
- He has lost points at French Open (05-2nd Round, 06-1st Round)

Obviously he lost a significant amount of points in the early year hard court season, but there is also a chance that he lost points in the clay court season, even though he didn't have that many to lose. I am worried about him.

Scotso
06-08-2006, 01:06 PM
Nope.

Jimnik
06-08-2006, 02:19 PM
Depends on his fitness. I hope his ankle has recovered.

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 03:34 PM
Depends on his fitness. I hope his ankle has recovered.Well, he's been in London for a week already and has been practicing with Andre and Andy Murray, etc. Don't know much more than that.

zicofirol
06-08-2006, 03:41 PM
Depends on the seeding, he is 5 right now in the rankings, so if he does not get 2nd seed he might play Federer in SF, and Federer would beat him. I also think Nalbandian would beat him on grass and Agassi, also depends how lubijic plays on these warmup events but if he does good I believe he could potentially beat ROddick, Ancic is also playing much better now and has a good shot to beat him,lol and I forgot Hewitt who for sure would beat him.

Fumus
06-08-2006, 03:53 PM
Depends on the seeding, he is 5 right now in the rankings, so if he does not get 2nd seed he might play Federer in SF, and Federer would beat him. I also think Nalbandian would beat him on grass and Agassi, also depends how lubijic plays on these warmup events but if he does good I believe he could potentially beat ROddick, Ancic is also playing much better now and has a good shot to beat him,lol and I forgot Hewitt who for sure would beat him.

1st off....

Nalbandian won't beat Roddick on grass, Nalby couldn't beat Roddick on HC 3 out 4 trys.

2nd

Roddick has beaten Hewitt and Agassi on grass.

3rd
Roddick has beaten Ancic on Grass

4th
Roddick proved in 2004 that if he plays his best he can beat the mighty Fed on grass, he just needs to make that step. :D

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 03:55 PM
Depends on the seeding, he is 5 right now in the rankings, so if he does not get 2nd seed he might play Federer in SF, and Federer would beat him. I also think Nalbandian would beat him on grass and Agassi, also depends how lubijic plays on these warmup events but if he does good I believe he could potentially beat ROddick, Ancic is also playing much better now and has a good shot to beat him,lol and I forgot Hewitt who for sure would beat him.He won't be 2nd seed, probably 3. As for the rest, Fumus handled that. :)

Fumus
06-08-2006, 03:56 PM
He won't be 2nd seed, probably 3. As for the rest, Fumus handled that. :)

I sure did! :hug:

hitchhiker
06-08-2006, 04:16 PM
if we get a 3rd time repeat of the grass season then it really is a joke

Johnny Groove
06-08-2006, 04:22 PM
So far this year:
- He has lost points at Houston (05-Winner, 06-Quarter-Final)
- He has gained points at Rome (05-3rd Round, 06-Quarter Final)
- He has lost points at Hamburg (05-1st Round, 06-Did not compete)
- He has lost points at French Open (05-2nd Round, 06-1st Round)

Obviously he lost a significant amount of points in the early year hard court season, but there is also a chance that he lost points in the clay court season, even though he didn't have that many to lose. I am worried about him.

How Andy managed to LOSE 100 points in the CLAY season is beyond me. I just really hope he can defend those grass points and finally beat fed :sad:

Fumus
06-08-2006, 04:25 PM
Guys calm down!

Andy has sooo many points he can pickup after the clay court/grass season....

At Indy!
At Toronto!
At USO!
At Madrid!
At TMC!

Kip
06-08-2006, 04:26 PM
The one good thing for Roddick is that despite
players picking up more on his serve nowadays
it's still be enough, especially on grass to win
alot of easy points.

IMO, as of now i'd still give him a 50-60%
chance of defending his points.

Fumus
06-08-2006, 04:29 PM
I have to be honest, this whole thread is a joke. Who cares about point defense. I care about titles, and playing well. The ranking will come when Andy finds those two things. Who cares if he loses 1st round at RG, if he wins Wimbly? Who cares if Andy lost all those points early if Andy wins Toronto when Roger is chillin on his respite?

hitchhiker
06-08-2006, 04:29 PM
The one good thing for Roddick is that

there are 4 good grass court players on tour

Golfnduck
06-08-2006, 04:30 PM
I think he'll be able to defend most/all of his points. I think the grass season will really boost his confidence, as it did in 2003.

Fumus
06-08-2006, 04:31 PM
I think he'll be able to defend most/all of his points. I think the grass season will really boost his confidence, as it did in 2003.

That's right this year will be 2003 all over again! :)

Problem solved see, Andy will end number 1. :)

Johnny Groove
06-08-2006, 04:32 PM
there are 4 good grass court players on tour

Roger and Andy is all i got. Are you counting Karlovic? Hewitt is coming back, Agassi is TBD, Fat Dave is always a factor, who else? Henman?

hitchhiker
06-08-2006, 04:34 PM
Roger and Andy is all i got. Are you counting Karlovic? Hewitt is coming back, Agassi is TBD, Fat Dave is always a factor, who else? Henman?

probably ancic and hewitt

Fumus
06-08-2006, 04:35 PM
Roger and Andy is all i got. Are you counting Karlovic? Hewitt is coming back, Agassi is TBD, Fat Dave is always a factor, who else? Henman?

Any player who has a big serve and plays a great attacking brand of tennis has the elements to be a great grass court player.

Johnny Groove
06-08-2006, 04:39 PM
Any player who has a big serve and plays a great attacking brand of tennis has the elements to be a great grass court player.

Vinnay Ice :rocker:

zicofirol
06-08-2006, 05:05 PM
1st off....

Nalbandian won't beat Roddick on grass, Nalby couldn't beat Roddick on HC 3 out 4 trys.

2nd

Roddick has beaten Hewitt and Agassi on grass.

3rd
Roddick has beaten Ancic on Grass

4th
Roddick proved in 2004 that if he plays his best he can beat the mighty Fed on grass, he just needs to make that step. :D
1. Nalbandian is playing much better and Roddick is on the decline, I think right now, Nalbandian beats Roddick on any surface.

2. NOt at WImbledon, totally different when its best of 5 and best of 3. Besides both of them own Roddick.

3. Yeah 2 years ago, Ancic is a much better player since then and like I said Roddick is not as good, I think Ancic could beat him.

Besides you have youre obvously a Roddick fan, so Im not sure you can have an objective opinion.

zicofirol
06-08-2006, 05:06 PM
He won't be 2nd seed, probably 3. As for the rest, Fumus handled that. :)
yeah if he gets 3rd seed and plays in the same draw as Federer, he is out in semis for sure and maybe before that depending on who he plays.

juanpablo18
06-08-2006, 05:20 PM
Roddick must pray for a good draw, because a lot of players can beat him now in grass...with his injury he will go out of the top10...he must recoverd for wimby, so keep working andy!

Stepanek, Gonzalez, Murray, djokovic, ancic, ljubicic, nalbandian, FEDERER, mirnyi and karlovic can beat now andy in grass...because he is not playing good.

my pronostic: Roddick will go out of the top10!

Horatio Caine
06-08-2006, 05:22 PM
I think he can still defend Queen's...

But he most likely won't be #2 seed for Wimby so he might well be in Roger's half :help:

supersexynadal
06-08-2006, 05:40 PM
He was in good form in Monte Carlo and its not his favrite surface so he SHOULD defend his points. I wish i could see old andy again :'(

Fumus
06-08-2006, 05:52 PM
The short answer to this thread is no. Probably not, it's really hard to win a tourny four years in a row and then make the wimbly final 3 years in a row. It just doesn't matter Andy isn't competing for the number 1 slot anymore, he's trying to win the big titles at this stage in his career.

Allez
06-08-2006, 05:56 PM
4th
Roddick proved in 2004 that if he plays his best he can beat the mighty Fed on grass, he just needs to make that step. :D
:haha::haha::haha:
In which alternate universe did Roddick "prove" this ? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Fumus
06-08-2006, 05:57 PM
:haha::haha::haha:
In which alternate universe did Roddick "prove" this ? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Clearly you didn't watch the final. ;)

Allez
06-08-2006, 06:08 PM
Clearly you didn't watch the final. ;)
Please I watched the final and as far as I recall Andy lost the match having only won 1 set. Just because he was leading in the 2nd set at the rain break doesn't mean he would have gone on to win the match. It's a 5 set match :rolleyes: :rolleyes: . Do you think Roger would have simply folded ? Think again ;) Roger was down 2 sets to love in Miami last year and still came back to beat Rafael. You place too much importance on that set and a half :D Roger wasn't in any danger ;)

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 06:10 PM
How Andy managed to LOSE 100 points in the CLAY season is beyond me. I just really hope he can defend those grass points and finally beat fed :sad:He got injured twice, that's how. It's not rocket science lol.

rofe
06-08-2006, 06:14 PM
This is kind of a do or die situation for Roddick. He needs to reassert himself as a tennis powerhouse by defending his points on his best surface. I think he has a very good chance and motivation to do just that. Good luck to him.

Johnny Groove
06-08-2006, 06:15 PM
He got injured twice, that's how. It's not rocket science lol.

the fact that he didnt have many points to defend and he still lost some make me :sad: . i hope he defends and gets some points in the summer and fall

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 06:16 PM
This is kind of a do or die situation for Roddick. He needs to reassert himself as a tennis powerhouse by defending his points on his best surface. I think he has a very good chance and motivation to do just that. Good luck to him.he knows that - the fact that he didn't go back to Texas after RG says it all, I nearly passed out on the floor when I read that his agent said he went to London. He's been in London longer than pretty much anyone, rehabbing his ankle and practicing as much as he can, etc.. he wants it real bad, that's undeniable. that may not turn into results but he is gonna be pumped, at least.the fact that he didnt have many points to defend and he still lost some make me :sad: . i hope he defends and gets some points in the summer and fallwell it makes me :sad: too. hell it made HIM :sad: lol. He knew his draw and the opportunities. You could see the frustration and hear it in his voice, he got unlucky. can't do much about that. He has to take the positives that he started hitting the ball a lot better and try to forget about the bad luck that's come before. every year for the past few years he's ended the clay season and I've feared that he wouldn't bounce back in time for grass and each time he has proved me wrong so I hope that this trend continues this year.

Jimnik
06-08-2006, 06:24 PM
I have to be honest, this whole thread is a joke. Who cares about point defense. I care about titles, and playing well. The ranking will come when Andy finds those two things. Who cares if he loses 1st round at RG, if he wins Wimbly? Who cares if Andy lost all those points early if Andy wins Toronto when Roger is chillin on his respite?
Exactly :worship:

rofe
06-08-2006, 06:29 PM
he knows that - the fact that he didn't go back to Texas after RG says it all, I nearly passed out on the floor when I read that his agent said he went to London. He's been in London longer than pretty much anyone, rehabbing his ankle and practicing as much as he can, etc.. he wants it real bad, that's undeniable. that may not turn into results but he is gonna be pumped, at least.

Yes, I am happy that he is taking the grass season seriously. I hope he is 100% fit and stays that way.

Winston's Human
06-08-2006, 06:47 PM
In the past three years, Roddick is 34-3 on grass with all losses to Federer.

During this run, Roddick has beaten Robredo, Gonzalez, Stepanek, Ancic (twice), Hewitt, Johansson, Grosjean (four times), Coria, Agassi, Andreev, Srichaphan, and Rusedski (twice) -- all players currently in the top 50.

IMO, until anyone other than Federer beats Roddick on grass, he is still the #2 grass player on tour.

tangerine_dream
06-08-2006, 06:57 PM
In the past three years, Roddick is 34-3 on grass with all losses to Federer.

During this run, Roddick has beaten Robredo, Gonzalez, Stepanek, Ancic (twice), Hewitt, Johansson, Grosjean (four times), Coria, Agassi, Andreev, Srichaphan, and Rusedski (twice) -- all players currently in the top 50.

IMO, until anyone other than Federer beats Roddick on grass, he is still the #2 grass player on tour.
BAN!

Purple Rainbow
06-08-2006, 06:59 PM
In the past three years, Roddick is 34-3 on grass with all losses to Federer.

During this run, Roddick has beaten Robredo, Gonzalez, Stepanek, Ancic (twice), Hewitt, Johansson, Grosjean (four times), Coria, Agassi, Andreev, Srichaphan, and Rusedski (twice) -- all players currently in the top 50.

IMO, until anyone other than Federer beats Roddick on grass, he is still the #2 grass player on tour.

Well, the past two years, Andy actually looked like a bit of a credible number 2. This season, he is pretty far from that form. Results from the past are no guarantee for future success.

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 07:13 PM
Well, the past two years, Andy actually looked like a bit of a credible number 2. Not last year. Look at his record in tiebreaks last year, it was truly abysmal. he had a pretty meager 2005 despite starting pretty well early on and winning some small titles throughout the year. His best wins last year by far, except maybe Hewitt in Cincinnati, were on grass. He hadn't won a 5-setter in forever and had lost like 5 or 6 in a row, then broke that by winning 2 at Wimby, which were real big for him. This slump did not start this year, it started at the end of 2004. he was out of it for much of last year too but still managed to tough out a lot of wins on grass.

Purple Rainbow
06-08-2006, 07:25 PM
Not last year. Look at his record in tiebreaks last year, it was truly abysmal. he had a pretty meager 2005 despite starting pretty well early on and winning some small titles throughout the year. His best wins last year by far, except maybe Hewitt in Cincinnati, were on grass. He hadn't won a 5-setter in forever and had lost like 5 or 6 in a row, then broke that by winning 2 at Wimby, which were real big for him. This slump did not start this year, it started at the end of 2004. he was out of it for much of last year too but still managed to tough out a lot of wins on grass.

Nah, I don't agree with you. What you are calling a slump since 2004 is actually who Andy is. Andy is not the player who can blast anyone off the court as you'd like to see. It's probably the other way around. Andy in 2003 and the first bits of 2004, that was a fluke, not the real Roddick.
Since late 2004, we have seen the player Roddick really is. Opponents got used to his power game, and know that once the ball is in play, you have a good chance to make the point.
What is happening to Roddick this season though, I think one can fairly call that a slump. An in-form Roddick is a contender for titles and would have a legit shot at world number 3. At the moment, Andy is 15 in the Champions Race, and going to drop a lot further when the new ranks come out.

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 07:40 PM
Well we'll agree to disagree. Obviously what he did in 2003 was just crazy, no one can expect him to reproduce that consistently, or maybe ever again. But throughout most of 2004 he played good ball, had chances at Wimbledon, won a Masters title, etc. But from his loss at the 2004 USO on, he's really been a different player - if you think that's who he "really is" then you're entitled to that opinion but obviously then you don't think much of him and your opinions are as a result of that. I am convinced that's when his problems started and they just hit a crescendo this year. You don't have to agree, but I trust my own analysis since he is my favorite player and I follow him closely. :)

If you think that opponents have just gotten used to his game and that his game hasn't significantly dropped off at all, I'm not sure what to say. His forehands never used to be so loopy, they never used to land consistently at the service box, and even his backhand has declined, so we can just disagree on this no problem :)

Purple Rainbow
06-08-2006, 07:47 PM
Well we'll agree to disagree. Obviously what he did in 2003 was just crazy, no one can expect him to reproduce that consistently, or maybe ever again. But throughout most of 2004 he played good ball, had chances at Wimbledon, won a Masters title, etc. But from his loss at the 2004 USO on, he's really been a different player - if you think that's who he "really is" then you're entitled to that opinion but obviously then you don't think much of him and your opinions are as a result of that. I am convinced that's when his problems started and they just hit a crescendo this year. You don't have to agree, but I trust my own analysis since he is my favorite player and I follow him closely. :)

Well, just like my opinion on Andy is skewed by me not thinking he is the greatest baller out there, your opinion might just as well be tilted towards the other extreme. I have to tell myself often that I can't expect roger to repeat the level that won him the 2004 USO final! ;)
Let's just agree to disagree indeed. I am not in a fighting mood today! ;)


If you think that opponents have just gotten used to his game and that his game hasn't significantly dropped off at all, I'm not sure what to say. His forehands never used to be so loopy, they never used to land consistently at the service box, and even his backhand has declined, so we can just disagree on this no problem :)

Obviously, you are much more knowledgable about Andy than me and I'll give you this. Might we add that he is standing further behind the baseline?
Hey, at least we agree that Andy's year so far has definietly been sub-par. I also hope Andy can regain the confidence to become a legit top player soon. I just don't think it will happen in time for Wimbledon.

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 07:54 PM
I am not in a fighting mood today! ;) good, me neither. And there's no reason to fight. you have your opinion and i have mine, nothing to fight about there :) Just b/c this is GM at MTF doesn't mean we HAVE to fight.Obviously, you are much more knowledgable about Andy than me and I'll give you this. Might we add that he is standing further behind the baseline?I thought he was. but in reality, he's not. a few weeks ago I watched the match where he beat Roger in 2003, he was feet behind the baseline! many feet! I think it's just more apparent now, because he's not hitting as hard/flat, and so it looks like it's worse. But in reality, he has stood far back since he was a little scrappy baseliner before his growth spurt and the discovery of that serve. And I will agree that court positioning is a big problem, and it will be interesting to see if that will be any better on the grass after this nice practice time he's had there (assuming his ankle has healed)
I just don't think it will happen in time for Wimbledon.I don't think so either and I don't expect him to win Queens or make the final at Wimbledon again this year. But I didn't last year and I didn't in 2004 either. Grass has become really special for him, and if he doesn't defend all his points it won't be out of not putting forth the best effort. One of the things I've always complained about with him is that he doesn't prepare as well as he could for tourneys, he arrives at the last moments, etc. Well this time he did the really smart thing and went to London and not back to Texas. As I said earlier, this alone demonstrates just how badly he wants it.

And it's undeniable that his two best matches this year were on the grass in the Davis Cup QF, so you're probably right, but he's turned things around on grass before so there's a little bit of reason to believe that he might start to this year as well. his movement was obviously very subpar, but in terms of his ball-striking, I really liked what I saw in his RG match, his balls were harder and deeper and if he can find his big forehand on grass and serve well, he can certainly do well.

rofe
06-08-2006, 08:02 PM
If you think that opponents have just gotten used to his game and that his game hasn't significantly dropped off at all, I'm not sure what to say. His forehands never used to be so loopy, they never used to land consistently at the service box, and even his backhand has declined, so we can just disagree on this no problem :)

I agree with you Deb. His forehand (his most potent weapon) is definitely not that dangerous anymore because he has chosen to make it more loopy. Unfortunately, he has not even tried to make that a weapon by using the topspin to pull his opponents wide and then go for the kill. It could be that he is still figuring out how to make it work but he should not have done that in lieu of his excellent flat forehand.

Oh well, we will know more this grass season.

Purple Rainbow
06-08-2006, 08:04 PM
good, me neither. And there's no reason to fight. you have your opinion and i have mine, nothing to fight about there :) Just b/c this is GM at MTF doesn't mean we HAVE to fight.

Nah, I am a rare kind here! I actually respect other posters. Unless they really beg to be punished that is. :p

I thought he was. but in reality, he's not. a few weeks ago I watched the match where he beat Roger in 2003, he was feet behind the baseline! many feet! I think it's just more apparent now, because he's not hitting as hard/flat, and so it looks like it's worse. But in reality, he has stood far back since he was a little scrappy baseliner before his growth spurt and the discovery of that serve. And I will agree that court positioning is a big problem, and it will be interesting to see if that will be any better on the grass after this nice practice time he's had there (assuming his ankle has healed)

Interesting, it's what people say all the time, Andy should move more towards the baseline. Never realised he was that far back when he was dominating too.

I don't think so either and I don't expect him to win Queens or make the final at Wimbledon again this year. But I didn't last year and I didn't in 2004 either. Grass has become really special for him, and if he doesn't defend all his points it won't be out of not putting forth the best effort. One of the things I've always complained about with him is that he doesn't prepare as well as he could for tourneys, he arrives at the last moments, etc. Well this time he did the really smart thing and went to London and not back to Texas. As I said earlier, this alone demonstrates just how badly he wants it.

And it's undeniable that his two best matches this year were on the grass in the Davis Cup QF, so you're probably right, but he's turned things around on grass before so there's a little bit of reason to believe that he might start to this year as well. his movement was obviously very subpar, but in terms of his ball-striking, I really liked what I saw in his RG match, his balls were harder and deeper and if he can find his big forehand on grass and serve well, he can certainly do well.

I think we will see a very motivated Andy. In fact, his ankle injury might just have given him some rest to fill up the tank, you know? It happens quite a lot, that people come out of injuries rejuvenated, eager and with a clear head. His injury might have been a blessing in disguise (though seeing how easily Ljubicic made the semis in Roddicks quarter surely wouldn't seem like a blessing...), but only time will tell! :)

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 08:13 PM
Interesting, it's what people say all the time, Andy should move more towards the baseline. Never realised he was that far back when he was dominating too.I know! I've said it a lot too. But then recently I also finally got to watch his match way back in 2001 when he beat Pete in Miami, and he was hitting these return winners off of SAMPRAS's serve, from on or INSIDE the baseline!!! I was flabbergasted when I was watching it. so I'm not really sure. he was returning Martin's serve pretty close up so that was good to see (b/c sometimes lately even guys with weaker serves he was standing way far back to return :o) I guess my conclusion where this is concerned is. I don't know! but he was for sure standing back in 2003 when he was at his very best. so while improving his court positioning would obviously help, I don't really think it's causing many of his problems.
I think we will see a very motivated Andy. In fact, his ankle injury might just have given him some rest to fill up the tank, you know? It happens quite a lot, that people come out of injuries rejuvenated, eager and with a clear head. His injury might have been a blessing in disguise (though seeing how easily Ljubicic made the semis in Roddicks quarter surely wouldn't seem like a blessing...), but only time will tell! :)Well I don't really think it was a blessing in disguise because he was so very disappointed by it, but sure, he will be motivated, and fresher than many of his rivals. so we will just have to see what happens. I just hope his ankle is really 100% by now and that he's been able to prepare well.

Merton
06-08-2006, 08:22 PM
Not last year. Look at his record in tiebreaks last year, it was truly abysmal. he had a pretty meager 2005 despite starting pretty well early on and winning some small titles throughout the year. His best wins last year by far, except maybe Hewitt in Cincinnati, were on grass. He hadn't won a 5-setter in forever and had lost like 5 or 6 in a row, then broke that by winning 2 at Wimby, which were real big for him. This slump did not start this year, it started at the end of 2004. he was out of it for much of last year too but still managed to tough out a lot of wins on grass.

I think his best matches of last year were against Seb and ToJo at Wimbledon. (together with the matches against JCF and Hewitt at Cincinnati)

Fumus
06-08-2006, 08:41 PM
Wow, what a spirted debate about Roddick we are having in here..and no one invited me to the party.

Let me start with a few shots since so much has already been said, I don't want to sound like I am just repeating what others have said. Surely you all must know that confidence, not strokes, nor coaching, or racquets...or anything a tennis player can buy or work on is more important. Confidence is the key to sucess for a tennis player. Andy's confidence, self-belief has dropped due to some bad losses and shocking defeats to lesser players and players considered better than himself. This fall in confidence has had Andy playing more conservitive, not striking the ball like he would, not hitting his serve as hard and with as much accuracy as he would, standing back further and looping returns in play because Andy was trying not lose, instead of trying to win. When the confidence returns to Andy you will see him return to the form he showed in 03 and 04, it has nothing to do with people figuring out his game...or anything like that. People knew what Pete's game was, they knew he was going to serve and volley, chip and charge, and hit fantastic forehands on the run. A great game combined with a player full of confidence works all the time...ask Nadal. Andy has a great game now he just the other half of it.

Dirk
06-08-2006, 08:45 PM
Wow, what a spirted debate about Roddick we are having in here..and no one invited me to the party.

Let me start with a few shots since so much has already been said, I don't want to sound like I am just repeating what others have said. Surely you all must know that confidence, not strokes, nor coaching, or racquets...or anything a tennis player can buy or work on is more important. Confidence is the key to sucess for a tennis player. Andy's confidence, self-belief has dropped due to some bad losses and shocking defeats to lesser players and players considered better than himself. This fall in confidence has had Andy playing more conservitive, not striking the ball like he would, not hitting his serve as hard and with as much accuracy as he would, standing back further and looping returns in play because Andy was trying not lose, instead of trying to win. When the confidence returns to Andy you will see him return to the form he showed in 03 and 04, it has nothing to do with people figuring out his game...or anything like that. People knew what Pete's game was, they knew he was going to serve and volley, chip and charge, and hit fantastic forehands on the run. A great game combined with a player full of confidence works all the time...ask Nadal. Andy has a great game now he just the other half of it.

Nadal has a high % game so he doesn't need as much confidence to pull it off and if Andy hasn't been figured out then explain to us why Muller starting reading his serve well after half way through that 1st set?

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 09:10 PM
I think his best matches of last year were against Seb and ToJo at Wimbledon. (together with the matches against JCF and Hewitt at Cincinnati)Yea I agree, but the Bracciali match, while not one of his best, was big for him considering the circumstances at the time, etc.

oneandonlyhsn
06-08-2006, 09:14 PM
I think people underestimate his desire to win, sure he has been struggling but I saw a lot of positive signs from his performance in Rome. I thought he was flattening his FH, wasnt relying on his serve as his % was low, and was playing smart tennis.
I think his problem for me has mainly been lack of being able to think on the court. When his game wasnt working, he didnt seem to know what to do. I noticed a change in this pattern in Rome. If his ankle has healed which I hope it has, I expect Andy to sweep away the competition in Queens and possibly reach the finals in Wimby.

Am I being too optimistic, maybe :shrug: but I really believe Andy has a deep desire to win and combined that with him playing on a surface which is very suited for his game, I see no reason for him to not defend his points or do better. Roger has focused so much on Clay this year, he maybe exhausted come WImby so who knows.
C'mon Andy :rocker:

R.Federer
06-08-2006, 09:17 PM
grass season is andy's best chance to find his confidence and redeem his year. He is good on the HC's but his relative advantage is so much more apparent on grass than on hc. good luck to him.
He is probably hoping to be the second seed at W

Carito_90
06-08-2006, 09:19 PM
I can't believe I'm gonna be the pessimitic one but... no I don't think he'll defend them.

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 09:23 PM
He is probably hoping to be the second seed at WI'm pretty sure it's mathematically impossible. If Rafa were to lose the RG final he'd lose 300 points, if Andy were to win Queens and Rafa bomb out 1st round... maybe, but even then I don't think it's possible under the formula they've used the past few years. He may be hoping, but I'm sure he also knows it's very unlikely.

Fumus
06-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Ohh another thing, Deb is 100 percent correct about Roddick standing to far behind the baseline. It's always been something that he's done his whole career. Andy has a big forehand, a big windup that is, so he likes to stand further back to give himself a chance to crack the ball. The thing is, is that Andy has been hitting the ball with alot more topspin, he needs to hit it flatter and use all that whindup to force his opponents to feel his pace. He was doing that in the RG match against Martin, I hope however, that wasn't just because of his ankle. I hope that he will continue this style until end of his career.

The other thing about Andy is that he has this kinda weird ability to make shots, when he's playing his best, he can just, come up with something and win a crucial point. Like against Kiefer in Canada 04' when he hit that fantastic pass on the run, against Hewitt in cincy 05' with that passing shot he made even after he fell over, or against Ferrer in Paris 05' when he did that running fh on mp, or against Moya in Maimi in 04' when he hit a similar fh on the run, against Federer in 2003 when he hit that half volley between his legs, the dive to save bp against Braccali last year at Wimbly....I mean the list goes on and on. I think what that shows is what confidence does for you, in all those matches Andy was playing confidently and the amazing intangible shots came.

It has nothing to do with his game being figured out, Andy has a great game, he just needs to play with all the confidence of being a top player.

R.Federer
06-08-2006, 09:25 PM
I'm pretty sure it's mathematically impossible. If Rafa were to lose the RG final he'd lose 300 points, if Andy were to win Queens and Rafa bomb out 1st round... maybe, but even then I don't think it's possible under the formula they've used the past few years. He may be hoping, but I'm sure he also knows it's very unlikely.
I have never quite figured out that magic formula.... always thought it was a W trade secret (like coca cola's :lol: ). What point differential must there be between Federer and nadal, or nadal and andy for andy to be seeded 2nd?

Carito_90
06-08-2006, 09:25 PM
Maybe be number 3 and hope to get lucky so not to draw Feds in the semis?

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 09:28 PM
I have never quite figured out that magic formula.... always thought it was a W trade secret (like coca cola's :lol: ). What point differential must there be between Federer and nadal, or nadal and andy for andy to be seeded 2nd?I don't know it but its' been posted here before, and last year it was actually published on the wimbledon site. Some people have done the math to see what andy would need, but that was before clay and considering he missed half of his scheduled clay season with injuries, he didn't gain any points and it will be pretty tough to make that up now. So I think it will be tough to get the #2 seed at this point.

Caro I'm pretty sure he'd get the #3 seed - his grass points from the last couple years are way way more than Ljubicic or Nalbandian.

Merton
06-08-2006, 09:33 PM
I don't know it but its' been posted here before, and last year it was actually published on the wimbledon site. Some people have done the math to see what andy would need, but that was before clay and considering he missed half of his scheduled clay season with injuries, he didn't gain any points and it will be pretty tough to make that up now. So I think it will be tough to get the #2 seed at this point.

Caro I'm pretty sure he'd get the #3 seed - his grass points from the last couple years are way way more than Ljubicic or Nalbandian.

Blosson brought out the formula at another thread and i calculated the difference required for Andy to get the #2 ranking, conditional on Rafa losing in 1st round at Queens and Andy winning. I recall it is something like 1700 points, so if Rafa wins tomorrow it looks like Andy would be the #3 seed.

Note that if Nalbandian wins it all, things might change since he made the Wimbledon quarters last year.

blosson
06-08-2006, 09:34 PM
I can't believe I'm gonna be the pessimitic one but... no I don't think he'll defend them.

Unfortunatelly, somehow I agree with you. :sad:

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 09:43 PM
Blosson brought out the formula at another thread and i calculated the difference required for Andy to get the #2 ranking, conditional on Rafa losing in 1st round at Queens and Andy winning. I recall it is something like 1700 points, so if Rafa wins tomorrow it looks like Andy would be the #3 seed.

Note that if Nalbandian wins it all, things might change since he made the Wimbledon quarters last year.k thanks, i thought it was something like that i just didn't remember the specifics.

of course wimbledon could change their formula this year as they have done in the past, but last year had used the same one that they had used the year before so who knows what they'll do :lol:

Merton
06-08-2006, 09:51 PM
k thanks, i thought it was something like that i just didn't remember the specifics.

of course wimbledon could change their formula this year as they have done in the past, but last year had used the same one that they had used the year before so who knows what they'll do :lol:

I am fine with them using a formula but changing it... It would only be credible if they pre-commit to changing it in advance, say they set the formula for 5 years back in 2001 and they reconsider after the expiration date but that does not appear to be the case.

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 09:56 PM
I am fine with them using a formula but changing it... It would only be credible if they pre-commit to changing it in advance, say they set the formula for 5 years back in 2001 and they reconsider after the expiration date but that does not appear to be the case.nahhh that'd be too logical, this is wimby we're talking here. I remember people being shockedl ast year when it was posted on the site. usually it's been some sort of secretive type thing and people had to try to work backwards to figure out what they did.

Fumus
06-08-2006, 09:57 PM
hahahaha....I remember Hewitt was so pissed.

AgassiDomination
06-08-2006, 09:57 PM
I really don't see him defending most of his points for the grass season.

oneandonlyhsn
06-08-2006, 10:00 PM
Too much doom and gloom from the Ducky fans, its like the Fed forum in here :lol:

I am going to be the optimist and say he will and I wont be surprised if he goes the extra step :D

Johnny Groove
06-08-2006, 10:01 PM
I think the formula is:

Current points + 100% of each grass court points in 05 + 75% of each grass court points in 04.

So, andy would have 2585(now)+ 925(2005) + 693.75(2004)= 4203.75 points :eek: , and andy would need to win Queens to keep the 4203.75.

Nadal has 4545 if he defends RG. he has 5+35 from last year's grass season, (he was injured in 04) so he has 4585.

So, Rafa has 4585 if he defends RG, + what he does in Queens, while Andy only has 4203.5 max.

Bear in mind, there is a possibility im an idiot and i screwed it all up, but i think this is what it is.

robinhood
06-08-2006, 10:05 PM
Andy'd better pray hard to land on the bottom half at Wimby, because otherwise I don't see him making the final again.

Also at Queen's, with that strong a line-up, I'll be surprised if he won again.
If Hewitt and Roddick were to play on grass right now, I would pick Lleyton.

Deboogle!.
06-08-2006, 10:08 PM
Too much doom and gloom from the Ducky fans, its like the Fed forum in here :lol: But unlike the fed fans, we actually have reason to be doomful and gloomful :p

scoobs
06-08-2006, 11:03 PM
Most of them, I think. But not all. It's still Roddick and it's still grass and he still has that serve.

DrJules
06-09-2006, 12:09 AM
I think the formula is:

Current points + 100% of each grass court points in 05 + 75% of each grass court points in 04.

So, andy would have 2585(now)+ 925(2005) + 693.75(2004)= 4203.75 points :eek: , and andy would need to win Queens to keep the 4203.75.

Nadal has 4545 if he defends RG. he has 5+35 from last year's grass season, (he was injured in 04) so he has 4585.

So, Rafa has 4585 if he defends RG, + what he does in Queens, while Andy only has 4203.5 max.

Bear in mind, there is a possibility im an idiot and i screwed it all up, but i think this is what it is.

Lies, Damned lies and statistics. Calculations now make Rafael number 2 seed at Wimbledon. How many people believe he is second favourite to win. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe thinking would do wonder for Wimbledon's seeding. Oh but you cannot do anything that sensible. :banghead:

Johnny Groove
06-09-2006, 12:34 AM
Lies, Damned lies and statistics. Calculations now make Rafael number 2 seed at Wimbledon. How many people believe he is second favourite to win. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe thinking would do wonder for Wimbledon's seeding. Oh but you cannot do anything that sensible. :banghead:

how many times has Roddick been the 2nd seed at RG or another clay tourney? kinda works both ways :rolleyes: but, hey, Wimbledon never makes sense, so maybe they'll do 1 vs 4, and 2 vs 3 in the draw

partygirl
06-09-2006, 12:46 AM
Yes, he will.

and... I Love Fumus.http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/gen136.gif

oneandonlyhsn
06-09-2006, 12:56 AM
Yes, he will.

and... I Love Fumus.http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/gen136.gif

:sad: I'm crushed I thouht you loved me :sobbing: :p

partygirl
06-09-2006, 01:10 AM
:sad: I'm crushed I thouht you loved me :sobbing: :p
awww.
I might be slim with a big booty but, there is enough to go around, and nobody can be you.http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/love061.gif

although, i must admit...you were my 3rd proposal in 2 weeks here at MTF :o I must be wanted or something. :D :rolleyes:

megadeth
06-09-2006, 01:23 AM
how low will his ranking go if he fails to defend quuens and equal his effort at wimby?

megadeth
06-09-2006, 01:25 AM
Most of them, I think. But not all. It's still Roddick and it's still grass and he still has that serve.

and that serve is being blocked back easily these days. roodick better hope for a smaller space between the baseline and the backboard :p

tangerine_dream
06-09-2006, 01:33 AM
Andy's had a pretty mediocre year so far and his confidence has taken a beating but he came back to life on grass during Davis Cup, in particular his match vs. Gonzalez which I thought was vintage Roddick at work.

He obviously loves the grass, loves to play on it and always performs well on it. I think that if he does well at Queen's then he will do just as well at Wimbledon. In fact, I won't expect him to struggle as much this year as he did last year.

Deboogle!.
06-09-2006, 02:07 AM
how many times has Roddick been the 2nd seed at RG or another clay tourney? kinda works both ways :rolleyes: but, hey, Wimbledon never makes sense, so maybe they'll do 1 vs 4, and 2 vs 3 in the drawThey don't get to choose that.

El Legenda
06-09-2006, 02:21 AM
Andy's had a pretty mediocre year so far and his confidence has taken a beating but he came back to life on grass during Davis Cup, in particular his match vs. Gonzalez which I thought was vintage Roddick at work.

He obviously loves the grass, loves to play on it and always performs well on it. I think that if he does well at Queen's then he will do just as well at Wimbledon. In fact, I won't expect him to struggle as much this year as he did last year.

:yawn: face it tangy he sucks :smooch:

Allez
06-09-2006, 09:26 AM
Given Andy's form since USO 2005, it would be scandalous and unfair on Nadal, Nalbandian and Ljubicic if Roddick were seeded 2nd @ Wimbledon this year. I think Nalbandian should be the 2nd seed and Andy the 3rd or 4th depending on how Ljubicic does today and in the tune up events.

Fumus
06-09-2006, 07:16 PM
Yes, he will.

and... I Love Fumus.http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/gen136.gif

Yay!

rexman
06-09-2006, 07:27 PM
Anyone know about what Hewitt will be seeded?

Black Adam
06-09-2006, 10:55 PM
I hope adding Jimmy Connors to his team will put some more fire in him, he should go out there thinking he is the man and not be intimidated or impressed by opponents. Hope Connors is there to save my boy. Besides he fels more at home in England so he can defend his points if not add more ;)