why do the Americans hate Monte Carlo? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

why do the Americans hate Monte Carlo?

vogus
04-17-2006, 09:20 PM
There's not a single US player in the draw. Why do the Americans seem to despise this event? You'd think it would be enticing, a gorgeous ritzy place on the sea, lots of media coverage, hot girls, huge prize money, and a chance to compete against Europe's best. It's not that long a trip, a six or seven hour plane ride from New York. So what's behind the history of the Americans staying away from Monte Carlo?

Freeze17171
04-17-2006, 09:25 PM
They're scared that they will get pounded on European soil in front of all the hot girls, and then all the girls will laugh and snicker at them as they run off with the European players. :sad:

Washa Koroleva
04-17-2006, 09:26 PM
That was nonsense, I guess.

cincy
04-17-2006, 09:32 PM
Because we Americans don't have to do anything we don't want to do because we're AMERICANS!!! :angel: So, there!!!

Besides, what attractions can Monte Carlo have that we don't already have in South Beach and Las Vegas? :confused:

AgassiDomination
04-17-2006, 09:33 PM
There's not a single US player in the draw. Why do the Americans seem to despise this event? You'd think it would be enticing, a gorgeous ritzy place on the sea, lots of media coverage, hot girls, huge prize money, and a chance to compete against Europe's best. It's not that long a trip, a six or seven hour plane ride from New York. So what's behind the history of the Americans staying away from Monte Carlo?
Probably because there are no more American players who can play on the clay well. :shrug:

ClaycourtaZzZz.
04-17-2006, 09:37 PM
Because the hate RG as well.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2006, 09:42 PM
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:

Washa Koroleva
04-17-2006, 09:43 PM
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn:


:yeah:

NATAS81
04-17-2006, 09:46 PM
They hate Monte Carlo's because Sharapova already bought them.

http://video.msn.com/v/us/v.htm?g=a9838775-47c3-4325-af1c-0c74cad01dd5&t=c37&f=06/64&p=hotvideo_btg

:drive: ;)

AgassiDomination
04-17-2006, 09:47 PM
Probably because there are no more American players who can play on the clay well. :shrug:
Oh wait, except for Mardy Fish. :p :lol:

Fed=ATPTourkilla
04-17-2006, 09:55 PM
Why do Americans hate the prospect of grinding away endless long rallies in matches they know they are going to lose? Hmmmmmm.....

Bilbo
04-17-2006, 10:16 PM
Can you imagine an American in a French region like Monaco? I don't think american players feel well there.

almouchie
04-17-2006, 10:25 PM
no american in draw
thats strange

cobalt60
04-17-2006, 10:28 PM
I guess only the American players can answer that for you. I am sure they have been asked before? Maybe you can find an article and let us know.:)

ezekiel
04-17-2006, 10:35 PM
I said this before but they just want to allow certain other players a chance to win :rolleyes: . No ugly american who takes everything ;)

RickDaStick
04-17-2006, 10:37 PM
Because we Americans don't have to do anything we don't want to do because we're AMERICANS!!! :angel: So, there!!!

Besides, what attractions can Monte Carlo have that we don't already have in South Beach and Las Vegas? :confused:

Hot European chicks

megadeth
04-17-2006, 10:44 PM
i asked this before in wertheim, and he answered my mail.

he thinks that because going to MC means you'll embark on a european leg very early and can mean being away from home by 2 straight months since you'll have rome, hamburg, and france in the next coming weeks.

although there's a gap between MC and Rome, traveling back and forth to Europe and US doesn't seem attractive.

so there, from a cost perspective in travel and hotel lodging, Americans feel that it might not be in their best interest.

other possibilities: (?)

1. they think houston is a good enough clay court event to start the season (despite the field being much less superior than what you'll find in MC)

cobalt60
04-17-2006, 10:45 PM
i asked this before in wertheim, and he answered my mail.

he thinks that because going to MC means you'll embark on a european leg very early and can mean being away from home by 2 straight months since you'll have rome, hamburg, and france in the next coming weeks.

although there's a gap between MC and Rome, traveling back and forth to Europe and US doesn't seem attractive.

so there, from a cost perspective in travel and hotel lodging, Americans feel that it might not be in their best interest.

other possibilities: (?)

1. they think houston is a good enough clay court event to start the season (despite the field being much less superior than what you'll find in MC)

Merci!

megadeth
04-17-2006, 10:47 PM
Because we Americans don't have to do anything we don't want to do because we're AMERICANS!!! :angel: So, there!!!

Besides, what attractions can Monte Carlo have that we don't already have in South Beach and Las Vegas? :confused:

you mean besides BETTER looking chicks, BETTER food, and BETTER manners? :rolleyes:

16681
04-17-2006, 10:48 PM
I don't think Americans hate Monte Carlo at all. I would love to go there myself :) And as for the tennis players it is a European clay court which they don't play well on and it is very close in date to the clay court tournament in Houston. And it is a long trip from Houston to Monte Carlo.

Melvins
04-17-2006, 10:55 PM
They hate Monte Carlo TMS because it's to early and they want to delay european claycourts.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2006, 10:58 PM
i asked this before in wertheim, and he answered my mail.

he thinks that because going to MC means you'll embark on a european leg very early and can mean being away from home by 2 straight months since you'll have rome, hamburg, and france in the next coming weeks.

although there's a gap between MC and Rome, traveling back and forth to Europe and US doesn't seem attractive.

so there, from a cost perspective in travel and hotel lodging, Americans feel that it might not be in their best interest.

other possibilities: (?)

1. they think houston is a good enough clay court event to start the season (despite the field being much less superior than what you'll find in MC)OK, so why didn't the Bryans play this year? They played last year and made the final and then came back home and went to Houston (had to pull out due to one of them getting injured before the Monte Carlo final) then they went to Rome, made the final, played Hamburg, AND the World Team Cup AND made the finals of Roland Garros. They immediately went to London and won queens and made the finals of Wimbledon. That's basically as much tennis than any player on the singles tour played over that stretch last year.

I don't think that Andy or James or Robby or the Bryans have any worry where cost is concerned. a trip to Monte Carlo is nothing for them. I think the scheduling is part of it. They have played more. I mean, Federer and Nadal were both off since Miami, compared to Andy and James who went straight to davis cup, on grass, then straight to Houston on clay. Federer and Nadal had their weeks off, too. they just didn't have to pull out of a Masters tourney to get it so no one pays attention (oh and they're not American).

And really, logically, at the end of the day, is making that trip to Monte Carlo really going to improve their overall clay results? If they play a match or two and in the process make an extra transatlantic trip (or conversely are away from home 3 weeks longer and stay in Europe the whole time which they obviously won't do), they'll be tired and unhappy and it won't improve their results.

I have consistently maintained that they'd be better off coming to Europe a week before Rome instead and play one of the small tourneys there - they play Houston, get their 2 weeks off, and still play one more smaller clay event to get matches.

cobalt60
04-17-2006, 11:00 PM
OK, so why didn't the Bryans play this year? They played last year and made the final and then came back home and went to Houston (had to pull out due to one of them getting injured before the Monte Carlo final) then they went to Rome, made the final, played Hamburg, AND the World Team Cup AND made the finals of Roland Garros. They immediately went to London and won queens and made the finals of Wimbledon. That's basically as much tennis than any player on the singles tour played over that stretch last year.

I don't think that Andy or James or Robby or the Bryans have any worry where cost is concerned. a trip to Monte Carlo is nothing for them. I think the scheduling is part of it. They have played more. I mean, Federer and Nadal were both off since Miami, compared to Andy and James who went straight to davis cup, on grass, then straight to Houston on clay. Federer and Nadal had their weeks off, too. they just didn't have to pull out of a Masters tourney to get it so no one pays attention (oh and they're not American).

And really, logically, at the end of the day, is making that trip to Monte Carlo really going to improve their overall clay results? If they play a match or two and in the process make an extra transatlantic trip (or conversely are away from home 3 weeks longer and stay in Europe the whole time which they obviously won't do), they'll be tired and unhappy and it won't improve their results.

I have consistently maintained that they'd be better off coming to Europe a week before Rome instead and play one of the small tourneys there - they play Houston, get their 2 weeks off, and still play one more smaller clay event to get matches.
Touche!

mangoes
04-17-2006, 11:01 PM
There's not a single US player in the draw. Why do the Americans seem to despise this event? You'd think it would be enticing, a gorgeous ritzy place on the sea, lots of media coverage, hot girls, huge prize money, and a chance to compete against Europe's best. It's not that long a trip, a six or seven hour plane ride from New York. So what's behind the history of the Americans staying away from Monte Carlo?

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


you mean besides BETTER looking chicks, BETTER food, and BETTER manners? :rolleyes:

Better looking chicks?? Well that's a matter of opinion...I'll let the guys vote on this one........

Better food?? That's a matter of taste and Americans are quite happy with the array of foods offered here.........

Better Manners? :lol: In every place there are people that lack manners and I've met my fair share in Europe........

David Kenzie
04-17-2006, 11:03 PM
All the americans who could have entered the draw are past their prime or already famous and don't play for money anymore.

It is because of the bad state of tennis in the US, there are no truly great players left and more importanty, there is no sign of talented young players for the near future.

It is sad because a country like the US deserves a real top player.

cobalt60
04-17-2006, 11:04 PM
All the americans who could have entered the draw are past their prime or already famous and don't play for money anymore.

It is because of the bad state of tennis in the US, there are no truly great players left and more importanty, there is no sign of talented young players for the near future.

It is sad because a country like the US deserves a real top player.
I must be missing something here:shrug:

nobama
04-17-2006, 11:07 PM
Because they get better treatment from Matress Mac and this is one clay event they have a realistic chance of winning.

David Kenzie
04-17-2006, 11:08 PM
I must be missing something here:shrug:
Yeah I think I didn't answer the thread question. I was answering the question : Why are there no americans in the MC draw ?

mangoes
04-17-2006, 11:09 PM
Because they get better treatment from Matress Mac and this is one clay event they have a realistic chance of winning.


Or it could be they're committed to supporting their country's event :shrug:

switz
04-17-2006, 11:09 PM
Because we Americans don't have to do anything we don't want to do because we're AMERICANS!!! :angel: So, there!!!

Besides, what attractions can Monte Carlo have that we don't already have in South Beach and Las Vegas? :confused:

:lol: i can only hope your being witty

megadeth
04-17-2006, 11:10 PM
OK, so why didn't the Bryans play this year? They played last year and made the final and then came back home and went to Houston (had to pull out due to one of them getting injured before the Monte Carlo final) then they went to Rome, made the final, played Hamburg, AND the World Team Cup AND made the finals of Roland Garros. They immediately went to London and won queens and made the finals of Wimbledon. That's basically as much tennis than any player on the singles tour played over that stretch last year.

I don't think that Andy or James or Robby or the Bryans have any worry where cost is concerned. a trip to Monte Carlo is nothing for them. I think the scheduling is part of it. They have played more. I mean, Federer and Nadal were both off since Miami, compared to Andy and James who went straight to davis cup, on grass, then straight to Houston on clay. Federer and Nadal had their weeks off, too. they just didn't have to pull out of a Masters tourney to get it so no one pays attention (oh and they're not American).

And really, logically, at the end of the day, is making that trip to Monte Carlo really going to improve their overall clay results? If they play a match or two and in the process make an extra transatlantic trip (or conversely are away from home 3 weeks longer and stay in Europe the whole time which they obviously won't do), they'll be tired and unhappy and it won't improve their results.

I have consistently maintained that they'd be better off coming to Europe a week before Rome instead and play one of the small tourneys there - they play Houston, get their 2 weeks off, and still play one more smaller clay event to get matches.

i didn't say that all americans think that way didn't i? and i'm not saying that the cost would be a problem, it's just like in business, even if you can afford, you try to be cost-effective.

i'm just relaying to you on a high level what wertheim answered when i asked the same question last year

switz
04-17-2006, 11:15 PM
on the other topic i guess most Americans seem to play in texas so maybe they don't want to travel straight over to Europe straight away.

Obviously the main reason is that aside from maybe Spadea they all pretty much suck on the surface so it would be pretty draining to come to Europe for 5 weeks before Roland Garros and keep losing early. If they skip MC they really can limit there stay to a few weeks - lose early at RG and go and prepare for Wimbledon.

sorry if i sound overly pessimistic about there chances on clay but it's hard to see any of them getting to the 4th round - although i've always thought Blake could play well on clay given that people like Verkerk did well.

ezekiel
04-17-2006, 11:27 PM
why do spaniards and latin americans hate grass and Wimbledon ?

Jimnik
04-17-2006, 11:29 PM
I don't think they hate Monte-Carlo. It's purely a scheduling problem.

Although I have to say, I'm an Andy Roddick fan and I can't excuse his absence from this year's tournament. After losing to Tommy Haas on the Friday, he had plenty of time to get his ass over to Europe. There was really no need for him to withdraw. It really pisses me off. :banghead:

But he's made his decision and I'm sure he has his reasons. I'm also sure that if Houston took place in February (rather than the week before MC) he would have played.

morningglory
04-17-2006, 11:44 PM
becuz they suck at it?
ARod could've gone... he didn't have to pull out, esp since he didn't reach the SF's...
Dang...

morningglory
04-17-2006, 11:45 PM
why do spaniards and latin americans hate grass and Wimbledon ?
they still play Wimby, even if a huge portion gets knocked out in the 1st rnd, but they embrace that humiliation willingly ;)

Deboogle!.
04-17-2006, 11:48 PM
LMFAO At the girl discussions. Pretty much all the players being discussed have very pretty girlfriends. I think they're doing ok :)

I think Andy's even on vacation, not wasting away at home. So, perhaps his performance in Houston was totally irrelevant. Perhaps he was going to go away no matter what happened, just as James was planning to get his wisdom teeth out. I mean, James went to Harvard he's not stupid, so I'm sure he'd probably rather be in a pretty place playing tennis than getting his wisdom teeth out :)they still play Wimby, even if a huge portion gets knocked out in the 1st rnd, but they embrace that humiliation willingly ;)But if the grass season was nearly 2 months long and had 3 required events, would they play them all, or would they take the opportunity to take a few weeks off, maybe take a short vacation, and have a rest at home?

marti_228
04-17-2006, 11:50 PM
why do spaniards and latin americans hate grass and Wimbledon ?


Because it's the oppossite of clay which is their favourite surface (in general) and there are no many grass courts in Latin America or Spain to practice.

I think it's more logical than the fact that Americans doesn't like clay, I mean, there are just two tournaments to play on grass before Wimbledon and they took place just after Roland Garros, and the clay season is much more longer.

Lately, Argentina, Chile and Spain are having better results on grass. In 2002 Nalbandian reached the finals and last year he, Coria and Feliciano López had good results in Wimbledon.

ezekiel
04-17-2006, 11:53 PM
they still play Wimby, even if a huge portion gets knocked out in the 1st rnd, but they embrace that humiliation willingly ;)

I remember some that were boycotting it some years back , I think Kuerten and some others. Infamous "Grass is for cows" comments

Yappa
04-17-2006, 11:53 PM
Nalbandian isnt the typical clay court player though.

DhammaTiger
04-17-2006, 11:57 PM
why do spaniards and latin americans hate grass and Wimbledon ?
That's not true. Nalbandian made the final of Wimbledon in his debut year 2002, Gonzo was in the qf of Wimbledon last year and lost to Federer, Fely Lopez also made it to the qf lost to Hewitt also last year Ferrero lost in the 4th round to Federer. As for other grass tournaments last year: in Halle, Canas was a semi finalist losing to Safin, and Ferrero was quarter finalist losing to Haas; in 's-Hertogenbosch: Coria, Robredo and Garcia-Lopez played , at Queens: there was Garcia-Lopez, Gonzalez and Ventura. Every year there are Spaniards and South Americans playing in Grass tournament. In fact Manolo Santana won Wimbledon in the sixties. I suggest you check your facts before making categorical statements.

marti_228
04-18-2006, 12:00 AM
Nalbandian can play very well on all types of courts, that`s why he has reached SF at all Grand Slams.Such a shame he could't get one yet.

And Coria is a typical clay court player and reached the 4th round last year I think, at least he tries to improve and still he plays there.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 12:00 AM
That's not true. Nalbandian made the final of Wimbledon in his debut year 2002, Gonzo was in the qf of Wimbledon last year and lost to Federer, Fely Lopez also made it to the qf lost to Hewitt also last year Ferrero lost in the 4th round to Federer. As for other grass tournaments last year: in Halle, Canas was a semi finalist losing to Safin, and Ferrero was quarter finalist losing to Haas; in 's-Hertogenbosch: Coria, Robredo and Garcia-Lopez played , at Queens: there was Garcia-Lopez, Gonzalez and Ventura. Every year there are Spaniards and South Americans playing in Grass tournament. In fact Manolo Santana won Wimbledon in the sixties. I suggest you check your facts before making categorical statements.Nalbandian, Gonzo, and Feli Lopez are not the people who we have referred to, obviously those guys have had excellent results on fast courts in general, not just on grass. I mean that'd be like responding to this argument about Americans hating clay and saying "Well but Chang and Courier did well on it!" I mean, duh. There are LOTS of Europeans and Latin Americans who would never play a full grass schedule if the grass schedule were as long as the clay season is. Doing well or whatever at a small grass tourney does not a grasscourter make. By that logic, there's no argument about Andy on clay, considering he's made a QF at a clay masters AND won a european clay title.

Jimnik
04-18-2006, 12:10 AM
That's not true. Nalbandian made the final of Wimbledon in his debut year 2002, Gonzo was in the qf of Wimbledon last year and lost to Federer, Fely Lopez also made it to the qf lost to Hewitt also last year Ferrero lost in the 4th round to Federer. As for other grass tournaments last year: in Halle, Canas was a semi finalist losing to Safin, and Ferrero was quarter finalist losing to Haas; in 's-Hertogenbosch: Coria, Robredo and Garcia-Lopez played , at Queens: there was Garcia-Lopez, Gonzalez and Ventura. Every year there are Spaniards and South Americans playing in Grass tournament. In fact Manolo Santana won Wimbledon in the sixties. I suggest you check your facts before making categorical statements.
I think you'll find there are more American Roland Garros champions than there are Spanish/Latin American Wimbledon champions. Because you'll find that America has all the courts - hard, grass, carpet and clay. Whereas Spain and South America has only clay courts.

Nalbandian is an incredible talent and I hope he does win Wimbledon one year. But he doesn't have a good enough serve - he needs more cheap points. Even Hewitt and Agassi had better serves.

JISarg
04-18-2006, 12:16 AM
ameericans r poor clay players. better not to be ridicuolous

amierin
04-18-2006, 12:18 AM
There was actually a sane discussion of this on the ESPN board
(by sane I mean the name calling was kept to a minimum.)
The best post went something like this "The Americans are lousy on clay so they don't go to MC or the smaller events and they stay lousy on clay and exit early at RG."
Agassi won the French. Chang won the French. Roddick, when Tariq was his coach played very well on clay. This anti clay bias in US Tennis started with Sampras. He seemed to resent having to grind and get dirty so all of a sudden good clay court players became "dirt ballers" and the attempt to downgrade RG extended to all the clay court tournaments. Once Roddick changed coaches and Sampras retired TPTB in US Tennis continued to act as if clay was some substance beamed down from an alien planet.
Until this attitude changes at the top of US tennis we'll continue to see draws like this and continued attempts to downgrade RG importance while elevating Wimbledon to the status of being the tennis pot of gold at the end of the rainbow because American men play very well on it.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 12:25 AM
Once Roddick changed coaches and Sampras retired TPTB in US Tennis continued to act as if clay was some substance beamed down from an alien planet.Where is the evidence of this? He had a relatively decent clay season in 2002, but he still lost first round at Roland Garros. His clay season in 2003 was abysmal, he was still with Tarik then. Until this attitude changes at the top of US tennis we'll continue to see draws like this and continued attempts to downgrade RG importance while elevating Wimbledon to the status of being the tennis pot of gold at the end of the rainbow because American men play very well on it.Yep, this I agree with. I don't, however, think there's necessarily a problem with making wimbledon their first priority. But, that doesn't mean they can't also want to do well on clay and make the commitment required. Henman would be the perfect example of this. He did well on clay 2 years ago when he really set his mind to it. It's all a mindset.

Andy has shown more than once that he can play decently on clay, most obviously in the DC final 2 years ago. He played Moya and Nadal pretty closely on exceptionally slow and cold conditions. Certainly, the level of tennis he played in those two matches was good enough to win him a few matches at all of the good clay tournaments. He is capable. But thusfar he hasn't shown the desire to do that well on clay yet. He says he sees it as a challenge he'd like to tackle but his mindset going in hasn't demonstrated that. However like I said I don't know that playing Monte Carlo would necessarily change that anyway.

JISarg
04-18-2006, 12:31 AM
I think fast court players r quite despective with clay in general. As for eg:

rusedski today: "But you have to be realistic about this surface. We're playing with the same heavy balls that we played with in Miami and in Indian Wells, so it's pretty tough to play any sort of attacking tennis. You just have to play his game really on the clay and just try to out‑run him and attack the backhand and try to play angles and mix it up. "

amierin
04-18-2006, 12:35 AM
Where is the evidence of this? He had a relatively decent clay season in 2002, but he still lost first round at Roland Garros. His clay season in 2003 was abysmal, he was still with Tarik then. Yep, this I agree with. I don't, however, think there's necessarily a problem with making wimbledon their first priority. But, that doesn't mean they can't also want to do well on clay and make the commitment required. Henman would be the perfect example of this. He did well on clay 2 years ago when he really set his mind to it. It's all a mindset.

Andy has shown more than once that he can play decently on clay, most obviously in the DC final 2 years ago. He played Moya and Nadal pretty closely on exceptionally slow and cold conditions. Certainly, the level of tennis he played in those two matches was good enough to win him a few matches at all of the good clay tournaments. He is capable. But thusfar he hasn't shown the desire to do that well on clay yet. He says he sees it as a challenge he'd like to tackle but his mindset going in hasn't demonstrated that. However like I said I don't know that playing Monte Carlo would necessarily change that anyway.

It's just like running track or playing the piano. Practice, practice, practice. If you don't practice you're going to suck and you'll suck because you don't practice. I'm not saying Americans shouldn't play to win, these guys are competitive and want to win. But if they don't play they'll never to well and they'll never do well because they don't play.

I could rephrase my comment about Roddick playing very well to playing well, or decently, on clay. I thought about it after I posted but I'll let it stand.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 12:45 AM
It's just like running track or playing the piano. Practice, practice, practice. If you don't practice you're going to suck and you'll suck because you don't practice. I'm not saying Americans shouldn't play to win, these guys are competitive and want to win. But if they don't play they'll never to well and they'll never do well because they don't play.Oh of course, I totally agree. so ok, Andy has decided to play Dusseldorf this year. That's three guaranteed matches most likely against guys who are much better on clay than he is. That's demonstrating he cares, no? He hasn't played there since 2002 which was his best clay season.

(I mean Andy is in a slump right now and he can't do well on his favorite surfaces and at his most favorite tournaments so I don't expect him to have a good clay season this year, irrespective of his dedication to doing well on clay.)

But I think that by adding Dusseldorf, he's at least shown he cares. I'd rather him have his 3-week break and his valued time with his family and be rested and happy and in a good mental and physical space when he shows up in Rome, rather than him making the quick trip to Monte Carlo, losing early, going BACK home for 2 weeks before Rome, and not making the proper preparations and getting the proper rest and stuff.

instead of doing Houston, off, off, off, Rome, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, RG, I'd rather Andy do (while being realistic and accepting the fact that he is going to play Houston for his whole career as long as the tournament is located there): Houston, off, off, Munich/Estoril, Rome, Hamburg, off, RG. I think that would be a better schedule for him and it would allow him to get to Paris early and get comfortable there. But :shrug: They don't listen to what we want for them, do they.

NYCtennisfan
04-18-2006, 12:51 AM
I think you can take a few different topics and create a single thread out of them which would eliminate the need for about 95% of threads on MTF.

-Americans suck on clay
-Which is the most prestigious slam
-Roddick/Hewitt/Coria is an asshole because he did __________ i.e. grabbed his crotch, spit, said 'fuck', used gamesmanship, ate a baby, etc
-Who is the most hated player on the ATP tour
-Who is the best looking player on the ATP tour
-Federer vs. Rafa on whatever: tennis, who has the better looking boyfriend/girlfriend, who looks like a Pig/Mowgli, who lacks charisma, who has more pubes, etc.
-Hewitt and Safin have big dicks

Socket
04-18-2006, 12:51 AM
Nick Bolletieri's academy used to emphasize the skills that produce good clay court players (e.g., Berger, Gilbert, Krickstein, Arias, Agassi). Not so today. It's just a matter of having the right coaches and the right courts available to juniors as they're being developed.

Today, we all think that you have to Spanish or South American to be a great dirtballer, but for years, an Austrian was one of the world's best clay courter, the Moo Man.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 01:03 AM
I think you can take a few different topics and create a single thread out of them which would eliminate the need for about 95% of threads on MTF.

-Americans suck on clay
-Which is the most prestigious slam
-Roddick/Hewitt/Coria is an asshole because he did __________ i.e. grabbed his crotch, spit, said 'fuck', used gamesmanship, ate a baby, etc
-Who is the most hated player on the ATP tour
-Who is the best looking player on the ATP tour
-Federer vs. Rafa on whatever: tennis, who has the better looking boyfriend/girlfriend, who looks like a Pig/Mowgli, who lacks charisma, who has more pubes, etc.
-Hewitt and Safin have big dicks:rolls: :spit: :haha:

amierin
04-18-2006, 01:05 AM
instead of doing Houston, off, off, off, Rome, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, RG, I'd rather Andy do (while being realistic and accepting the fact that he is going to play Houston for his whole career as long as the tournament is located there): Houston, off, off, Munich/Estoril, Rome, Hamburg, off, RG. I think that would be a better schedule for him and it would allow him to get to Paris early and get comfortable there. But They don't listen to what we want for them, do they.

If they did wouldn't their careers be just perfect? ;)

amierin
04-18-2006, 01:06 AM
-Americans suck on clay
-Which is the most prestigious slam
-Roddick/Hewitt/Coria is an asshole because he did __________ i.e. grabbed his crotch, spit, said 'fuck', used gamesmanship, ate a baby, etc
-Who is the most hated player on the ATP tour
-Who is the best looking player on the ATP tour
-Federer vs. Rafa on whatever: tennis, who has the better looking boyfriend/girlfriend, who looks like a Pig/Mowgli, who lacks charisma, who has more pubes, etc.
-Hewitt and Safin have big dicks

You forgot the Fed is God posts. Other than that you've pretty much summed it up.

anserq
04-18-2006, 01:09 AM
lol good one
Because we Americans don't have to do anything we don't want to do because we're AMERICANS!!! :angel: So, there!!!

Besides, what attractions can Monte Carlo have that we don't already have in South Beach and Las Vegas? :confused:

mangoes
04-18-2006, 01:09 AM
I think you can take a few different topics and create a single thread out of them which would eliminate the need for about 95% of threads on MTF.

-Americans suck on clay
-Which is the most prestigious slam
-Roddick/Hewitt/Coria is an asshole because he did __________ i.e. grabbed his crotch, spit, said 'fuck', used gamesmanship, ate a baby, etc
-Who is the most hated player on the ATP tour
-Who is the best looking player on the ATP tour
-Federer vs. Rafa on whatever: tennis, who has the better looking boyfriend/girlfriend, who looks like a Pig/Mowgli, who lacks charisma, who has more pubes, etc.
-Hewitt and Safin have big dicks

:lol: :lol: :lol:

1 MORE: Who is better: Sampras or Federer??

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 01:10 AM
If they did wouldn't their careers be just perfect? ;)I think so! :D

AgassiDomination
04-18-2006, 01:24 AM
Is it a sin to hate Monte Carlo? :retard:

Jimnik
04-18-2006, 01:25 AM
instead of doing Houston, off, off, off, Rome, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, RG, I'd rather Andy do (while being realistic and accepting the fact that he is going to play Houston for his whole career as long as the tournament is located there): Houston, off, off, Munich/Estoril, Rome, Hamburg, off, RG. I think that would be a better schedule for him and it would allow him to get to Paris early and get comfortable there. But :shrug: They don't listen to what we want for them, do they.
I'd rather Andy did Houston, off, Barcelona, off, Rome, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Roland Garros. But if he loses early in Houston, why not play MC? It's not like he'll play more than 2, 3 or maybe 4 matches. He'll also probably lose early in Hamburg so why not play a few matches in Dusseldorf?

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 01:31 AM
I'd rather Andy did Houston, off, Barcelona, off, Rome, Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Roland Garros. But if he loses early in Houston, why not play MC? It's not like he'll play more than 2, 3 or maybe 4 matches. He'll also probably lose early in Hamburg so why not play a few matches in Dusseldorf?I don't think he'd like that schedule. Most players, Andy included, are momentum players. He plays a lot better when he plays a bunch of weeks in a row and wins a lot. Plus, this way, he gets three full solid weeks off (or two with the schedule I proposed). I think most guys would rather have their time off in one chunk, so they can actually put down the racquet for a few days, have time to actually rest for a little bit, before bearing down. If he had one random week off, he wouldn't get to go home, he'd just get a few days here or there. Andy's a homebody, we all know that. There's nothing wrong with playing Dusseldorf in and of itself, I just worry about him getting comfortable in Paris and on that surface and stuff. Playing Dusseldorf would make that difficult

LoveFifteen
04-18-2006, 06:03 AM
What about jet lag? I mean, I feel horrible for days every time I fly between Europe and the United States. (Especially when I fly from the US to Europe. For some reason, it seems like the jet lag is worse when you fly East.)

Anyway, if I were a professional tennis player, I don't think I would be able to jet back and forth between the US and Europe frequently. If I did Monte Carlo, Rome, Berlin, Roland Garros, Queens, and Wimbledon, I don't think I'd be able to handle flying back home in between. Yes, I might be a pussy, but for some reason, I am seriously affected by jet lag.

So, how much time is there between the beginning of Monte Carlo and the end of Wimbledon? Three months? I mean, I love traveling in Europe, but maybe some of the players just don't want to spend that much time away from home.

And then again, maybe professional tennis players are so used to jet lag, that it doesn't affect them much any more? Who knows?

I think it's the same with several Europeans not participating in the entire US Summer hardcourt season. Maybe they just don't want to be in the US for such a long period of time?

idolwatcher1
04-18-2006, 06:12 AM
Nick Bolletieri's academy used to emphasize the skills that produce good clay court players (e.g., Berger, Gilbert, Krickstein, Arias, Agassi). Not so today. It's just a matter of having the right coaches and the right courts available to juniors as they're being developed.

I touched on this a few weeks ago... http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=3285383&postcount=29 (as for why I think Americans are skipping Monte Carlo, I think it has more to do with convenience of scheduling and taking time off to stay in America for a few more weeks than it does anything else)

hitchhiker
04-18-2006, 06:53 AM
because they spent last week in the houston shithole

alelysafina
04-18-2006, 07:33 AM
If he had one random week off, he wouldn't get to go home, he'd just get a few days here or there. Andy's a homebody, we all know that.

Yes, but he's a tennis player and he has to make the connection that if he wants to improve his game, especially on his favorite surface, he has to put in the man hours. I'm not saying he should join a tennis slave labor camp, but he really needs to play more on the red clay and with all of the good clay court specialist, men who know how to play a good clay court game. That is the only way he will improve and he will definitely not get that by just playing houston and dusseldorf.

Action Jackson
04-18-2006, 07:38 AM
Said by an American commentator. "The umpire is Steve Ulrich, and along with me we are the only Americans here."

I♥PsY@Mus!c
04-18-2006, 12:02 PM
Even Bryans don't play here! :eek: I just can't believe it! :o

Dirk
04-18-2006, 12:25 PM
Yes, but he's a tennis player and he has to make the connection that if he wants to improve his game, especially on his favorite surface, he has to put in the man hours. I'm not saying he should join a tennis slave labor camp, but he really needs to play more on the red clay and with all of the good clay court specialist, men who know how to play a good clay court game. That is the only way he will improve and he will definitely not get that by just playing houston and dusseldorf.

Exactly, Andy could play an event and then get to the next event early if he has taken the week off and train there. There is just no excuse and even Mattress Mac has to know that if he wants to breed a great clay courter from the US they will have to not play his event.

Dirk
04-18-2006, 12:27 PM
What about jet lag? I mean, I feel horrible for days every time I fly between Europe and the United States. (Especially when I fly from the US to Europe. For some reason, it seems like the jet lag is worse when you fly East.)

Anyway, if I were a professional tennis player, I don't think I would be able to jet back and forth between the US and Europe frequently. If I did Monte Carlo, Rome, Berlin, Roland Garros, Queens, and Wimbledon, I don't think I'd be able to handle flying back home in between. Yes, I might be a pussy, but for some reason, I am seriously affected by jet lag.

So, how much time is there between the beginning of Monte Carlo and the end of Wimbledon? Three months? I mean, I love traveling in Europe, but maybe some of the players just don't want to spend that much time away from home.

And then again, maybe professional tennis players are so used to jet lag, that it doesn't affect them much any more? Who knows?

I think it's the same with several Europeans not participating in the entire US Summer hardcourt season. Maybe they just don't want to be in the US for such a long period of time?

Most of them are playing on clay in Europe because they tend to do better there. Most of the hardcourt European players do come to the US to play.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 02:38 PM
Yes, but he's a tennis player and he has to make the connection that if he wants to improve his game, especially on his favorite surface, he has to put in the man hours. I'm not saying he should join a tennis slave labor camp, but he really needs to play more on the red clay and with all of the good clay court specialist, men who know how to play a good clay court game. That is the only way he will improve and he will definitely not get that by just playing houston and dusseldorf.He's not just playing Houston and Dusseldorf, they will all play Rome and Hamburg as well.

Find me a player who would prefer random single weeks off 4,000 miles away from home over having a block of time at home for a couple weeks before having to be away for a couple months. There are more things to performing well than just practicing, and no amount of practice would help if a player is miserable b/c they had no time off and no time at home with their family and friends able to relax for a few days, especially a player like Andy whose head is so fragile right now anyway and who really appreciates the time with his friends and family more than the average. Even Bryans don't play here! :eek: I just can't believe it! :oMy point exactly. Which says to me it's something more than just disliking clay - the Bryans were the finalists last year at this very tournament. So there was obviously some OTHER reason that they chose not to play.

I mean I agree with everyone that it would be nice if they would all play. But the sheer truth of the situation is that they don't, and I can see valid reasons in it. Some people feel their reasons aren't valid, and they never would because they don't LIKE any of them so they're always going to find a reason to fault their actions. Same old same old MTF.

Julio1974
04-18-2006, 02:40 PM
Every year, the same thread. I can't wait for july and see again the "Why Gaudio does not play on grass" thread.

cobalt60
04-18-2006, 02:41 PM
Every year, the same thread. I can't wait for july and see again the "Why Gaudio does not play on grass" thread.
Thank you.

LoveFifteen
04-18-2006, 04:08 PM
Most of them are playing on clay in Europe because they tend to do better there. Most of the hardcourt European players do come to the US to play.

I was talking about American tennis players. They don't tend to do well on European clay.

Also, several of the big guns from Europe skip the first few tournaments in the US Open series.

NYCtennisfan
04-18-2006, 04:20 PM
Do the Russians hate Monte Carlo? Hmmm...they can't seem to get away fast enough from this tournament. :)

Jimnik
04-18-2006, 04:21 PM
Do the Russians hate Monte Carlo? Hmmm...they can't seem to get away fast enough from this tournament. :)
Andreev is losing to Ljubicic, which makes 0/5 Russian wins in Monte-Carlo.

Maybe USA won't be too scared of Russia on clay. ;)

tangerine_dream
04-18-2006, 04:34 PM
I'm still waiting for the "Why do the Australians hate Monte Carlo?" thread to show up.

shotgun
04-18-2006, 05:56 PM
I'm still waiting for the "Why do the Australians hate Monte Carlo?" thread to show up.

Not gonna happen. Stephen Huss and Todd Perry are in the doubles draw. ;)

DrJules
04-18-2006, 06:21 PM
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:




Better looking chicks?? Well that's a matter of opinion...I'll let the guys vote on this one........

We all know Mangoes is a better looking version of Maria Sharapova :lol: :lol: :lol:

shotgun
04-18-2006, 06:25 PM
We all know Mangoes is a better looking version of Maria Sharapova :lol: :lol: :lol:

:rolls:

DrJules
04-18-2006, 07:37 PM
Overall I think it yet again indicates how badly organised the tennis year is.

Each year we seem to have a very short build up to the Australian Open considering it is the first premier event of the year.

Indian Wells and Miami seem to make no sense at all as the next grand slam is Paris on clay.

We then move to a clay court season which seems to cramped with 3 master series squeezed into a short period.

There is then insufficient build up to the third big event of the year Wimbledon on grass.

The second half of the year is much more sensible. Although having clay court events after Wimbledon makes no sense with the French Open not for another 9 months.

The build up to the fourth grand slam the US Open seems excellent with excellent Decoturf preparation.

Finally, the 2 final indoor master events lead to a master cup indoors with similar surface to Paris master event which makes sense for 2 reasons; 1) it follows the indoor season and 2) there is no indoor grand slam.


If the first half of the year was better structured maybe players would play all the master events.

More people would attend the events if it was better organised. Houston was obviously the reason no Americans were at Monte Carlo this year. It is very difficult to play tournaments in successive weeks let alone when they are in different continents. How often have you seen a player win one week and lose early the next.

Tennis needs to realise that the 4 four grand slams and the 9 master series + cup are the biggest events in tennis and everything else should be arranged around them.

heya
04-18-2006, 09:35 PM
They're Americans. Being idiotic is a mutual decision. As long as money rolls in, why care about each other when Davis Cup time isn't here yet.
Their friends and relatives agree with everything they say. Almost like spoiled babies in mens' bodies.
Do you think the Bryans really believe "Blake will save America on clay and grass"? *while they strum the song "Detachable Penis" on the guitar

cobalt60
04-18-2006, 10:41 PM
They're Americans. Being idiotic is a mutual decision. As long as money rolls in, why care about each other when Davis Cup time isn't here yet.
Their friends and relatives agree with everything they say. Almost like spoiled babies in mens' bodies.
Do you think the Bryans really believe "Blake will save America on clay and grass"? *while they strum the song "Detachable Penis" on the guitar
Are you saying that the American players are the only ones who care about $$$$? Man could I enlighten you. :lol:

amierin
04-18-2006, 11:08 PM
Do the Russians hate Monte Carlo? Hmmm...they can't seem to get away fast enough from this tournament. :)

Are the Russians the Americans of this tournament? They're doing exactly what we all say the US men would've done.

ChloeLove
04-18-2006, 11:32 PM
They're planning to hide in the lockers rooms, and wish for clay courts to disappear, instead of gaining vital clay court practice. Americans do worse on clay, than any other country does when out of their element, ex. Chileans playing on grass, isn't nearly as sad as Amercians on clay. However, the Americans aren't the only ones skipping out on this tournament if you haven't noticed.

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 11:45 PM
Are the Russians the Americans of this tournament? They're doing exactly what we all say the US men would've done.Maybe there's something to be said for listening to your mind and body and taking some proper rest before a season that's not your favorite so that you can mentally and physically prepare to at least try to do the best you can? :) They're planning to hide in the lockers rooms, and wish for clay courts to disappear, instead of gaining vital clay court practice. Americans do worse on clay, than any other country does when out of their element, ex. Chileans playing on grass, isn't nearly as sad as Amercians on clay. However, the Americans aren't the only ones skipping out on this tournament if you haven't noticed.Really? I kinda beg to differ. The Chileans are a combined 14-15 on grass, the top two Americans are a combined 74-45 on clay, I'll even take out green clay for you and it's still 69-45. Massu hasn't played a tournament before Wimbledon since 2002, so he's not exactly making the extra effort to improve; Gonzalez played one tourney before Wimbledon last year - for the first time in his career. If there were a 2 month grass season, how many tournaments do you think Massu would play? Do you think he'd play all three required events before wimbledon, if they were to exist? Moreover, Massu has never been further at Roland Garros than Andy has and Gonzalez isn't even really considered by most to be a claycourter anyway. Further, the top American doubles team has won Roland Garros - doubles players can count too, I think. :)

Maybe making such broad generalizations isn't a great thing (and maybe using Chile wasn't the best example :p). ;)

alfonsojose
04-18-2006, 11:47 PM
This thread is :retard:
I can't wait for the why do Argies and Spaniards hate Wimbledon thread :yawn:

Deboogle!.
04-18-2006, 11:49 PM
This thread is :retard:
I can't wait for the why do Argies and Spaniards hate Wimbledon thread :yawn:the difference, fonsie, is that not enough people really take the time to care about the people who don't like the grass or the fast hardcourts or whatever. Many of the players I'd consider my least favorite snub the grass and summer HC series as much as they can but I can't say I've ever even given it a passing thought and it never would cross my mind to actually start a thread with the intent on denigrating them over it :)

nobama
04-18-2006, 11:55 PM
Tennis needs to realise that the 4 four grand slams and the 9 master series + cup are the biggest events in tennis and everything else should be arranged around them.Yeah if there was no clay court tourny in Houston the week before MC I'm sure the Americans would be playing in MC right now. But they obviously feel obligated to play that tournament for a variety of reasons. They do need to restructure the calander as you say and maybe have a bit more time off between surfaces (especially right after DC).

cobalt60
04-18-2006, 11:58 PM
Maybe there's something to be said for listening to your mind and body and taking some proper rest before a season that's not your favorite so that you can mentally and physically prepare to at least try to do the best you can? :) Really? I kinda beg to differ. The Chileans are a combined 14-15 on grass, the top two Americans are a combined 74-45 on clay, I'll even take out green clay for you and it's still 69-45. Massu hasn't played a tournament before Wimbledon since 2002, so he's not exactly making the extra effort to improve; Gonzalez played one tourney before Wimbledon last year - for the first time in his career. If there were a 2 month grass season, how many tournaments do you think Massu would play? Do you think he'd play all three required events before wimbledon, if they were to exist? Moreover, Massu has never been further at Roland Garros than Andy has and Gonzalez isn't even really considered by most to be a claycourter anyway. Further, the top American doubles team has won Roland Garros - doubles players can count too, I think. :)

Maybe making such broad generalizations isn't a great thing (and maybe using Chile wasn't the best example :p). ;)
:) That's all. You've said it perfectly esquire :worship:

Merton
04-19-2006, 12:02 AM
Hate? Why would they hate such a beautiful place? :confused: They just think that they are better off skipping this tournament than they would be playing it. Whether they are right or wrong is debatable but it appears to be a rational decision.

amierin
04-19-2006, 12:05 AM
Originally Posted by DrJules
Tennis needs to realise that the 4 four grand slams and the 9 master series + cup are the biggest events in tennis and everything else should be arranged around them.

Ya think? Those guys get paid a lot of money to put a season together and you'd think this would've occured to them but noooooooo. The TD's gang up on them and lo and behold you've got Mattress Mac or whatever his name is holding the "US Men's Claycourt Championships" just before the clay court season starts in Europe.

I do think this is part of the problem.

Merton
04-19-2006, 12:18 AM
It seems that the current generation underestimates the benefits of improving their over-all level by focusing more on clay. That is not an American trait by any means since the previous generation-Sampras, Agassi, Courier, Chang- did not do all that bad on clay. However they did invest a substantial amount of effort on the surface, for example Courier played two summer clay tournaments in Europe in 1990 when he would be unquestionably better off short term if he played hard court US events instead. The effort paid off on clay but i would argue that all of them were eventually better players on hard because of that effort. Better physical condition, point construction, strategic thinking.

You can look at the Muster thread of GWH, he says that he used the grass season as the period to recharge his batteries. I guess this is similar to what people do by skipping the grass season. One can flip that argument, players that are better on hard courts need a season to recharge their batteries. However, i am not sure if doing that systematically in the clay season is in their best interest, career-wise. The grass season is too short and there is one required event, so the cost of skipping is relatively low. However, the clay season is 4 required events, so the cost is substantial, especially if you consider the likelihood that a player might find himself in a cold streak during the American hard court season. That would leave only the early hard court season and the indoors season for point-gathering.

Neely
04-19-2006, 12:19 AM
Maybe there's something to be said for listening to your mind and body and taking some proper rest before a season that's not your favorite so that you can mentally and physically prepare to at least try to do the best you can? :) Really? I kinda beg to differ. The Chileans are a combined 14-15 on grass, the top two Americans are a combined 74-45 on clay, I'll even take out green clay for you and it's still 69-45. Massu hasn't played a tournament before Wimbledon since 2002, so he's not exactly making the extra effort to improve; Gonzalez played one tourney before Wimbledon last year - for the first time in his career. If there were a 2 month grass season, how many tournaments do you think Massu would play? Do you think he'd play all three required events before wimbledon, if they were to exist? Moreover, Massu has never been further at Roland Garros than Andy has and Gonzalez isn't even really considered by most to be a claycourter anyway. Further, the top American doubles team has won Roland Garros - doubles players can count too, I think. :)

Maybe making such broad generalizations isn't a great thing (and maybe using Chile wasn't the best example :p). ;)
:worship: Deb, if it was possible for me to rep you again, I would do it :)
:hatoff: to you ;)

Yeah, I mean it's easy to say "Americans suck on clay", "Americans hate Monte Carlo" etc. etc. blablabla... but there are/were also some players from other countries which brutally suck on grass, don't respect the play on grass or skip a SLAM on grass or other tournaments like a routine job :) And as I said already... skipping a Slam, well, it makes skipping one AMS look like a peanut :cool:

Neely
04-19-2006, 12:24 AM
The grass season is too short and there is one required event, so the cost of skipping is relatively low. However, the clay season is 4 required events, so the cost is substantial, especially if you consider the likelihood (...)
Touché. And that's exactly the problem that skipping the grass season is not costly enough, we don't have one single TMS, not even a ISG. Would it be more costly, more players would put effort into it and respect this surface more.

Deboogle!.
04-19-2006, 12:32 AM
The grass season is too short and there is one required event, so the cost of skipping is relatively low. However, the clay season is 4 required events, so the cost is substantial,...The reverse side of that argument is that there are 4 required events, so missing one isn't that big a deal, especially when by not playing you get to have 3 full weeks off, something a lot of players would just love to have. Especially when you consider that most of these guys would be arriving pretty late due to playing Houston, and the chances of them even getting any points or even much match practice are incredibly low anyway. ESPECIALLY if these guys are convinced that by not playing MC, they have a better chance to do well at the other 3 required events anyway. If they lose first round in all 4 events or if they skip one and do better in the others, the costs become not as great. They probably just simply feel like their season is better-served to take that week and stay at home and recharge and they can come back recharged for the events they will play.

Plus most of the top players miss at least one Masters event each year - Roger missed 3, Rafa 2, etc.

I think a question also begs to be asked... RG ends just 2 weeks before Wimbledon. If the seasons were flipped and the grass season ended only 2 weeks before the clay season, I wonder if the grass season would be treated differently by those who aren't as good on it. My point is that you have to add to the fact that these guys are intelligently recognizing they have a much better chance to do better on grass.... this one more week off might give me that much more energy come the grass season, which is where they really want to do well.

Merton
04-19-2006, 12:47 AM
The reverse side of that argument is that there are 4 required events, so missing one isn't that big a deal, especially when by not playing you get to have 3 full weeks off, something a lot of players would just love to have. Especially when you consider that most of these guys would be arriving pretty late due to playing Houston, and the chances of them even getting any points or even much match practice are incredibly low anyway. ESPECIALLY if these guys are convinced that by not playing MC, they have a better chance to do well at the other 3 required events anyway. If they lose first round in all 4 events or if they skip one and do better in the others, the costs become not as great. They probably just simply feel like their season is better-served to take that week and stay at home and recharge and they can come back recharged for the events they will play.

Plus most of the top players miss at least one Masters event each year - Roger missed 3, Rafa 2, etc.



Your point is well taken, i can see a strategy where they miss an event like Monte Carlo and rest for that week. However, more credible effort would then be to play a small Euro event, like Munich or Estoril, followed by Rome+Hamburg, instead of playing Rome+Hamburg and then the glorified exhibition the week before RG.

I think a question also begs to be asked... RG ends just 2 weeks before Wimbledon. If the seasons were flipped and the grass season ended only 2 weeks before the clay season, I wonder if the grass season would be treated differently by those who aren't as good on it. My point is that you have to add to the fact that these guys are intelligently recognizing they have a much better chance to do better on grass.... this one more week off might give me that much more energy come the grass season, which is where they really want to do well.

You are right about Andy but i am not sure that this is true for James and Ginepri. They might feel that they have better chances on grass but if they committed on clay the feeling would flip. Fact is, all of them seem to be following a similar schedule even though their incentives might defer.

Deboogle!.
04-19-2006, 12:48 AM
However, more credible effort would then be to play a small Euro event, like Munich or Estoril, followed by Rome+Hamburg, instead of playing Rome+Hamburg and then the glorified exhibition the week before RG.I've suggested this about 3 times in this thread and about 29834029840293 times in Andy's forum :) So needless to say, I completely agree :D

Merton
04-19-2006, 12:50 AM
Touché. And that's exactly the problem that skipping the grass season is not costly enough, we don't have one single TMS, not even a ISG. Would it be more costly, more players would put effort into it and respect this surface more.

I think a possible reason is that grass courts carry higher costs than hard court courts. Personally i prefer grass to hard courts but it is hard to see how to sacrifice a hard court Masters Series in favour of adding a grass Masters event sort of totally revamping the season, something that would create other problems.

Dirk
04-19-2006, 12:50 AM
The reverse side of that argument is that there are 4 required events, so missing one isn't that big a deal, especially when by not playing you get to have 3 full weeks off, something a lot of players would just love to have. Especially when you consider that most of these guys would be arriving pretty late due to playing Houston, and the chances of them even getting any points or even much match practice are incredibly low anyway. ESPECIALLY if these guys are convinced that by not playing MC, they have a better chance to do well at the other 3 required events anyway. If they lose first round in all 4 events or if they skip one and do better in the others, the costs become not as great. They probably just simply feel like their season is better-served to take that week and stay at home and recharge and they can come back recharged for the events they will play.

Plus most of the top players miss at least one Masters event each year - Roger missed 3, Rafa 2, etc.

I think a question also begs to be asked... RG ends just 2 weeks before Wimbledon. If the seasons were flipped and the grass season ended only 2 weeks before the clay season, I wonder if the grass season would be treated differently by those who aren't as good on it. My point is that you have to add to the fact that these guys are intelligently recognizing they have a much better chance to do better on grass.... this one more week off might give me that much more energy come the grass season, which is where they really want to do well.


Roger was injuried for two of them and I guess just too tired to play Rome and wanted to use that time to train for Hamburg. Rafa same thing with IW last year. I can hardly fault those guys since they swept up everything. They needed the breaks. Andy doesn't nor does James. If they had any intention of becoming the best they could be on clay they would be playing in Europe. Andy and James could play MC stay in Europe and train at Rome early if they didn't want to play a follow up event but they really should be playing one or two of the smaller events. It is time to let Mattress Mac go.

Dirk
04-19-2006, 12:52 AM
I think a possible reason is that grass courts carry higher costs than hard court courts. Personally i prefer grass to hard courts but it is hard to see how to sacrifice a hard court Masters Series in favour of adding a grass Masters event sort of totally revamping the season, something that would create other problems.

Just change all the Oz events back to grass, problem solved. :)

Merton
04-19-2006, 12:52 AM
I've suggested this about 3 times in this thread and about 29834029840293 times in Andy's forum :) So needless to say, I completely agree :D

My apologies, i replied to the title, i did not read all posts here. :hug: :wavey:

Lee
04-19-2006, 12:53 AM
Your point is well taken, i can see a strategy where they miss an event like Monte Carlo and rest for that week. However, more credible effort would then be to play a small Euro event, like Munich or Estoril, followed by Rome+Hamburg, instead of playing Rome+Hamburg and then the glorified exhibition the week before RG.



The benefit from the glorified exhibition is the player is guaranteed to play 3 matches on clay.

Merton
04-19-2006, 12:54 AM
Just change all the Oz events back to grass, problem solved. :)

And who would pay maintaining the grass courts in the off season? Or the extra cost of converting back to grass? Personally i would not say no but i don't see it happening.

Deboogle!.
04-19-2006, 12:59 AM
My apologies, i replied to the title, i did not read all posts here. :hug: :wavey:oh I wasn't trying to tell you that I beat you or something :lol: Merely that I agreed and it's in fact something i've harped on where Andy's concerned :lol: Glad to see someone recognized the same opportunity as I did, in fact :) Sorry if that's not how my reply came across - my fault.

I dont have a problem with him playing Dusseldorf, though. The field there is pretty strong and he'll be forced to play 3 matches against decent claycourters. I mean playing Gaudio or Acasuso or Volandri or Massu or Haas or whoever..... that's just as good practice as anything he'd get in the masters, the lowest ranked player to commit to Dusseldorf is Sanguinetti at 53, so I mean... it'll be good practice for all those who play :)

Dirk
04-19-2006, 12:59 AM
And who would pay maintaining the grass courts in the off season? Or the extra cost of converting back to grass? Personally i would not say no but i don't see it happening.

Um the event thru the sponsers and the fans who attend them. Tennis wasn't making the money it does back in the good old days yet they still had grass courts and kept them. Don't underestimate the spirit of capitalism, what makes you think they can't get more sponsers or bring more money into the event so they still come out just as profitable as they did with rebound ace.

It is also much better for the players bodies. You are sadly right, they will not switch back. :sad:

Merton
04-19-2006, 01:07 AM
Um the event thru the sponsers and the fans who attend them. Tennis wasn't making the money it does back in the good old days yet they still had grass courts and kept them. Don't underestimate the spirit of capitalism, what makes you think they can't get more sponsers or bring more money into the event so they still come out just as profitable as they did with rebound ace.

It is also much better for the players bodies. You are sadly right, they will not switch back. :sad:

But the issue is that the incremental increase in revenues by switching to grass should match the cost of doing so. If by switching to grass they get the same revenue that they have now, capitalism prescribes that they stay with what they have. :) Your point about grass being better for the players' bodies relative to hard is correct but sadly i feel that the players' needs are not what matters most.

Neely
04-19-2006, 01:27 AM
I think a possible reason is that grass courts carry higher costs than hard court courts. Personally i prefer grass to hard courts but it is hard to see how to sacrifice a hard court Masters Series in favour of adding a grass Masters event sort of totally revamping the season, something that would create other problems.
Agreed about the higher costs of a grass court. But also other courts need to be maintained and prepared, especially of course this is true for the regions which have a clearly defined outdoor season because you can't play outdoor all year long. Also, with clay it is not so easy how many people might think. In regions with frost, snow and wind a claycourt looks pretty bad in spring after winter and it needs a lot of work to get it back in shape. Sometimes you even need a few truck loads of new clay, then sort out all the leaves or other dirt that is on the court. Repair unevennesses or the plastic lines which happened to be demaged due to frosty temperatures or climate. Once this is done, the court is pretty much okay for the rest of the season without bigger actions and a grass court needs higher maintenence throughout the season. Sure. But it's not categorically like that more grass tournament could not be introduced due to a lack of money. I mean, there are lot of grass court clubs and they are also maintained. Most tournaments are hosted at clubs anyway, it's not like grass courts for more grass tournaments would need to be built that would be unused for the rest of the year except the one week when the tournament is taking place. Granted, it would need some investment, but I've seen bigger ones or money wasted at the wrong places. Where there's a will, there's a way. That the grasscourt season and the very traditional tennis play on grass is not any longer and that this exciting stretch of the season does not hold any more big tournaments (like one or better two AMS; ISG; longer grass season in general) except Wimbledon is one of the biggest grievances in tennis for me :(

Merton
04-19-2006, 01:46 AM
Agreed about the higher costs of a grass court. But also other courts need to be maintained and prepared, especially of course this is true for the regions which have a clearly defined outdoor season because you can't play outdoor all year long. Also, with clay it is not so easy how many people might think. In regions with frost, snow and wind a claycourt looks pretty bad in spring after winter and it needs a lot of work to get it back in shape. Sometimes you even need a few truck loads of new clay, then sort out all the leaves or other dirt that is on the court. Repair unevennesses or the plastic lines which happened to be demaged due to frosty temperatures or climate. Once this is done, the court is pretty much okay for the rest of the season without bigger actions and a grass court needs higher maintenence throughout the season. Sure. But it's not categorically like that more grass tournament could not be introduced due to a lack of money. I mean, there are lot of grass court clubs and they are also maintained. Most tournaments are hosted at clubs anyway, it's not like grass courts for more grass tournaments would need to be built that would be unused for the rest of the year except the one week when the tournament is taking place. Granted, it would need some investment, but I've seen bigger ones or money wasted at the wrong places. Where there's a will, there's a way. That the grasscourt season and the very traditional tennis play on grass is not any longer and that this exciting stretch of the season does not hold any more big tournaments (like one or better two AMS; ISG; longer grass season in general) except Wimbledon is one of the biggest grievances in tennis for me :(

You are right about the cost of revamping a clay court after winter but what matters is the cost relative to grass. I suspect that grass courts would be at least equally costly to repair after winter so more costly overall relative to clay. There are people that are willing to afford the extra cost, hence there are grass court clubs but scaling up to organize tournaments is something different. I have not checked, but i suspect that there is not much of a grass season at the Challengers/Futures level. It is about $$$.

I agree that it is sad, i find grass play aesthetically pleasing, i like the amount of clay that we see now but i would prefer more grass relative to hard/indoors. However, any regulation is suspicious in the sense that you need to make a case as to why markets fail and hence there is need of regulation, and that is not an easy issue.

Merton
04-19-2006, 02:01 AM
The benefit from the glorified exhibition is the player is guaranteed to play 3 matches on clay.

Good point but do these matches matter? I cannot think of any memorable match in the World Team Tennis, it is normal, the players would not exert themselves as much a week before RG. Ok, Gaston won against Hewitt there in 2004, that might have given a confidence boost. I don't know whether it is better to have three matches there than to arrange common training sessions with good people. I guess it depends on specifics.

Deboogle!.
04-19-2006, 02:05 AM
Good point but do these matches matter? I cannot think of any memorable match in the World Team Tennis, it is normal, the players would not exert themselves as much a week before RG. Ok, Gaston won against Hewitt there in 2004, that might have given a confidence boost. I don't know whether it is better to have three matches there than to arrange common training sessions with good people. I guess it depends on specifics.Well I think most of the players take it pretty seriously and are using it as legitimate preparation for RG (like they do at Kooyong for the AO), so it's a match under match conditions with the umps and ballkids and crowd and adrenaline, so I think it can only help. The reverse i think is that they get to Paris late and don't have as much time to acclimatize to those particular conditions and their surroundings there. Depends on the player whether that matter or not - for someone like Andy who does better when he's got a routine and is set and comfortable with stuff, it may make a difference. So it's a trade-off in that respect I guess. But getting to RG really really early has not helped him the past two years, so at least he's willing to try to change it up I guess.

Merton
04-19-2006, 02:13 AM
Well I think most of the players take it pretty seriously and are using it as legitimate preparation for RG (like they do at Kooyong for the AO), so it's a match under match conditions with the umps and ballkids and crowd and adrenaline, so I think it can only help. The reverse i think is that they get to Paris late and don't have as much time to acclimatize to those particular conditions and their surroundings there. Depends on the player whether that matter or not - for someone like Andy who does better when he's got a routine and is set and comfortable with stuff, it may make a difference. So it's a trade-off in that respect I guess. But getting to RG really really early has not helped him the past two years, so at least he's willing to try to change it up I guess.

Nothing seems to work with respect to performing well at RG. Andy has tried World Team before, he tried St. Poelten, he tried taking the week off :help: Ironically, his best result in Paris came in 2001, when he went there straight from Houston, not playing the entire Euro season. :tape:

heya
04-19-2006, 02:49 AM
IT would help if Mr. US Slave becomes a man and stops pretending that he feels no
guilt over denying the wishes of charities, American sponsors and tournament organizers.
End the bitchy attitude outside America.

"I can change my ways. I can serve and play with variety. I can run much faster like during Davis Cup ties. I can lose weight and hit drop shots/lobs.
I will not fool around in practice sessions again. No Cheetos/junk food eating'.

Deboogle!.
04-19-2006, 06:50 PM
Nothing seems to work with respect to performing well at RG. Andy has tried World Team before, he tried St. Poelten, he tried taking the week off :help: Ironically, his best result in Paris came in 2001, when he went there straight from Houston, not playing the entire Euro season. :tape:Exactly (well his ranking wasn't high enough to get into the masters tourneys directly anyway I don't think), and that's why missing Monte Carlo is arguably not really a big deal where he's concerned and maybe he's actually better off taking the nice 3-week break, getting a little vacation, whatever. There is no logic where his clay results are concerned :p

rocketassist
04-17-2008, 06:03 PM
because it's the proper RG warm up and proper clay court tennis, they don't wanna get their punk asses schooled.

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 06:07 PM
Sam Querrey is on the list and hasn't withdrawn and I don't think he will.

Looks like he is going to be the Lone Ranger in Monte Carlo, think Spadea was the last American to go there besides Steve Ulrich and Norm Chryst.

Fee
04-17-2008, 07:15 PM
Oh yay, we got an old thread bumped up instead of starting a new one.

:banana:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:23 PM
Fee, contain your excitement.

Fee
04-17-2008, 07:33 PM
No, I love this topic every year. It's so familiar and comforting, like mashed potatoes and gravy on a cold afternoon.

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:36 PM
It was good rocket bumped it, because you know some clown was going to start a thread similar to it, once they find out all the withdrawals.

On topic, good to see Samuel is going over, hence he tanked Houston to get there early.

Merton
04-17-2008, 07:44 PM
Well, I bet somebody will start a thread specifically for Andy when he withdraws officially. :lol: Nothing new to add really, it would be hilarious when it comes RG time and all journalists suddenly mourn the fact that US players did not perform according to their ranking if somebody just reproduced past interviews and articles. They would read the same, just change the date.

I just hope that when Andy looks back when he is retired he will have no regrets about his strategy, it is fairly obvious he is leaving points on the table as well as working on things on his game that would pay off later on hard courts. But he doesn't look like a guy that would engage himself in self-regret :lol:

Good to see Sam having a true effort on clay, he is obviously going to Monte Carlo barring injury and he has also entered Barcelona.

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:46 PM
Andy does what he wants to do. The tournament doesn't miss him and he doesn't miss the tournament, so it's a win win situation for both.

The old chestnut about claycourt players not playing Wimbledon is pretty much dead and buried, you might get one or two who miss it. The rest of them turn up.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 07:46 PM
He already withdrew officially ;)

I mean I hope Sam gives it a good effort. Let's not forget that til 2003 Andy played it too. He's obviously decided it doesn't work best for him, but we've been over that a million times before so no need to go there again :zzz:

tangerine_dream
04-17-2008, 07:47 PM
No, I love this topic every year. It's so familiar and comforting, like mashed potatoes and gravy on a cold afternoon.
Good old MTF comfort food. :lick: Let's take a walk down memory lane, shall we?

2004: Should Andy skip Monte Carlo?
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=9997

2004: Roddick, Blake and Fish Withdraw From Monte Carlo
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=10019

2005: Americans snub Monte-Carlo
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=33448

2006: Why aren't Blake and Ginepri playing in Monte Carlo?
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=75074

2007-08: Why do the Americans hate Monte Carlo?
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=75333

:worship:

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:49 PM
He already withdrew officially ;)

It's one of the few things that James Blake beat him at, who could withdraw from the event earlier.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 07:51 PM
Maybe there was a bet going on or something :D

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 07:52 PM
Probably over a poker game at DC.

RogiFan88
04-17-2008, 07:53 PM
too foreign

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 08:03 PM
Sam can have fun in this place. It's been there for years.

Stars' N' Bars in Monte Carlo.

http://www.starsnbars.com/en/

Sam should get a photo next to this.

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g239/GeorgeWH/GWH2/poster.jpg

Fee
04-17-2008, 08:05 PM
too foreign

Award for not reading one single post in the thread before responding.



Good luck to Sam, with his movement he's a definite quaterfinalist here. One day, Ryan Harrison is going to win this event. ;)

cobalt60
04-17-2008, 08:08 PM
Well, I bet somebody will start a thread specifically for Andy when he withdraws officially. :lol: Nothing new to add really, it would be hilarious when it comes RG time and all journalists suddenly mourn the fact that US players did not perform according to their ranking if somebody just reproduced past interviews and articles. They would read the same, just change the date.

I just hope that when Andy looks back when he is retired he will have no regrets about his strategy, it is fairly obvious he is leaving points on the table as well as working on things on his game that would pay off later on hard courts. But he doesn't look like a guy that would engage himself in self-regret :lol:

Good to see Sam having a true effort on clay, he is obviously going to Monte Carlo barring injury and he has also entered Barcelona.

Spoken like a true wise man ;)

TheBoiledEgg
04-17-2008, 08:26 PM
they HAVE got to play Houston thats why :tape:

SwiSha
04-17-2008, 08:27 PM
they got vegas they dont need MC

sawan66278
04-17-2008, 08:30 PM
Because they believe Har-Tru courts are the only REAL clay courts.:devil:

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 08:30 PM
Spadea and Aaron Krickstein loved it

Mechlan
04-17-2008, 08:30 PM
:zzz: Not again. We've discussed this to death. Two months away from home is a long time, this goes for every player. The Americans are not giving up a lot of points by not playing. They are getting a lot more rest. Sure it would be nice for them to make a serious attempt on the clay, but all things considered, it's not that hard to understand the rationale here.

Action Jackson
04-17-2008, 08:38 PM
Spadea and Aaron Krickstein loved it

Jimmy Arias made the Monte Carlo final losing to Wilander. That was a long match, with the odd moonball rally.

ChinoRios4Ever
04-17-2008, 08:39 PM
Gonzo withdraw from MC, thank you Stefanski :hatoff:

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 08:42 PM
they HAVE got to play Houston thats why :tape:Roddick's not playing houston this year. Last year he had a torn hamstring

Because they believe Har-Tru courts are the only REAL clay courts.:devil:News to Houston, which this year is being played on super slow Red clay and all but last year was played on red clay materially exactly the same as RG and flown over from France :zzz:

:zzz: Not again. We've discussed this to death. Two months away from home is a long time, this goes for every player. The Americans are not giving up a lot of points by not playing. They are getting a lot more rest. Sure it would be nice for them to make a serious attempt on the clay, but all things considered, it's not that hard to understand the rationale here.stop making sense, it's not allowed in GM and CERTAINLY not in this discussion. (btw, I don't think it's the time away from home so much as the consecutive playing weeks without a break to actually play on the clay for a couple weeks and try to get used to it a bit - look at Blake's schedule the past 6 weeks)

rocketassist
04-17-2008, 08:43 PM
TMS is a required event, end of the day Americans get rightful stick for not going.

Merton
04-17-2008, 08:44 PM
Jimmy Arias made the Monte Carlo final losing to Wilander. That was a long match, with the odd moonball rally.

There was that memorable match between Agassi and Al Costa in 96, Agassi must have seen quite a few backhand down the line winners going past him :awww: But of course that match was strange, we all know by now that the two-handed backhand is inherently superior.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 08:46 PM
TMS is a required event, end of the day Americans get rightful stick for not going.Thanks for the insightful breakthrough by sharing information none of us were aware of :hatoff:

Fee
04-17-2008, 08:49 PM
Anyone who is taking this thread seriously might need a vSmack on the forehead. ;)

rocketassist
04-17-2008, 08:51 PM
Thanks for the insightful breakthrough by sharing information none of us were aware of :hatoff:

Your thing about talking sense in GM, well naturally your beloved American players you are gonna defend to the hilt. I bet you don't stick up for clay courters who don't go to Wimbledon.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 08:55 PM
Anyone who is taking this thread seriously might need a vSmack on the forehead. ;);)

Your thing about talking sense in GM, well naturally your beloved American players you are gonna defend to the hilt. I bet you don't stick up for clay courters who don't go to Wimbledon.:haha: where have I defended them :rolls: I don't think they should skip it, but I do understand why they do it, that doesn't equal defending the decision. I understand a lot of things I don't agree with, it's not that difficult a concept, for some of us anyway :rolls: I just don't see the need to have a broken-record-beat-the-dead-horse-to-a-tenth-death (where's GWH's smiley when you need it) discussion about something that doesn't change from year to year. It's tiring and pointless and amusing that people just need to do it every year :lol: So please, be my guest, try to find something that hasn't been covered before, I challenge you :lol:

rofe
04-17-2008, 08:56 PM
:yawn: at bumping this thread.

rocketassist
04-17-2008, 09:03 PM
;)

:haha: where have I defended them :rolls: I don't think they should skip it, but I do understand why they do it, that doesn't equal defending the decision. I understand a lot of things I don't agree with, it's not that difficult a concept, for some of us anyway :rolls: I just don't see the need to have a broken-record-beat-the-dead-horse-to-a-tenth-death (where's GWH's smiley when you need it) discussion about something that doesn't change from year to year. It's tiring and pointless and amusing that people just need to do it every year :lol: So please, be my guest, try to find something that hasn't been covered before, I challenge you :lol:

you took the bait and took me seriously :p I just wanted to bore you a little, lmao.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 09:08 PM
you took the bait and took me seriously :p I just wanted to bore you a little, lmao.Joey, I stopped taking you seriously about 3 years ago.

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 09:09 PM
Anyone who is taking this thread seriously might need a vSmack on the forehead. ;)Or a v-spank on the bum ;)

rocketassist
04-17-2008, 09:14 PM
Joey, I stopped taking you seriously about 3 years ago.

April 2005 :haha:

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 09:19 PM
Yep, pretty much :)

~*BGT*~
04-17-2008, 09:20 PM
Don't a lot of European players live in MC? Safin, Ljubicic, Ancic... it's easier for them to compete in a tournament when they can sleep in their own beds at night.

rocketassist
04-17-2008, 09:20 PM
Deb, I first set foot in here in December 2004.

Deboogle!.
04-17-2008, 09:24 PM
Deb, I first set foot in here in December 2004.Ah, maybe I miscalculated then, probably more like 3 years and a couple months in that case :)

rocketassist
04-17-2008, 09:27 PM
November 2006.

Henry Chinaski
04-17-2008, 10:01 PM
No, I love this topic every year. It's so familiar and comforting, like mashed potatoes and gravy on a cold afternoon.

I had read about 4 pages and it wasn't til Coria was mentioned that I realised the thread was 2 years old.

FedFan_2007
04-17-2008, 10:52 PM
Sampras and Agassi played here often. Courier even won Rome 2x.

FluffyYellowBall
04-17-2008, 10:57 PM
Roddicks playing isnt he? Hes on the entry list

Fee
04-17-2008, 11:15 PM
Roddicks playing isnt he? Hes on the entry list

Which entry list are you looking at? The updates are posted in the tournament forum here.

Lee
04-17-2008, 11:43 PM
No, I love this topic every year. It's so familiar and comforting, like mashed potatoes and gravy on a cold afternoon.

I have mashed potatoes on this cool afternoon but no gravy :sobbing:

Corey Feldman
04-17-2008, 11:45 PM
Sampras and Agassi played here often. Courier even won Rome 2x.Only 4 times each

and did you know the only match Sampras ever won here in M.Carlo was in 1998 first round Vs Agassi ? and that was the last year either of them ever came

in the next round, Santoro beat Pete 6-1 6-1

and in 96 Agassi was boo'd of court after a 6-2 6-1 hammering by Albert Costa

Lee
04-17-2008, 11:49 PM
;)

:haha: where have I defended them :rolls: I don't think they should skip it, but I do understand why they do it, that doesn't equal defending the decision. I understand a lot of things I don't agree with, it's not that difficult a concept, for some of us anyway :rolls: I just don't see the need to have a broken-record-beat-the-dead-horse-to-a-tenth-death (where's GWH's smiley when you need it) discussion about something that doesn't change from year to year. It's tiring and pointless and amusing that people just need to do it every year :lol: So please, be my guest, try to find something that hasn't been covered before, I challenge you :lol:

I post it in another thread that really needs it too. :lol:

gogogirl
04-17-2008, 11:55 PM
Hey All,

Don't all players get to skip two MS tourneys per year? This is one that the Americans skip. They'll be there in Rome - though.

FluffyYellowBall
04-17-2008, 11:58 PM
who the hell bumped this thread and y?

FluffyYellowBall
04-18-2008, 12:04 AM
Oh i just checked. Andy and james out. Why? I only read the first post.

Fee
04-18-2008, 12:11 AM
who the hell bumped this thread and y?

It was bumped to make fun of the fact that Andy and James skip Monte Carlo every year, and someone at MTF usually starts a thread to get upset about it. This is what they call 'tongue-in-cheek'. :)

Clay Death
04-18-2008, 12:13 AM
Hey All,

Don't all players get to skip two MS tourneys per year? This is one that the Americans skip. They'll be there in Rome - though.


skipping masters events gets much harder next year. a team of doctors will examine you to make sure that there is something is wrong with you. no more bullshit execuses.

Monte Carlo will no longer be a required Masters event next year event. the points wil be there as well all the tradition and prestige.

Hamburg loses its Masters status in 2009. Madrid goes to clay.

kobulingam
04-18-2008, 12:14 AM
I think it's a confluence of a few reasons:

1) Travel distance and period of time stuck in Europe. If Americans show up for clay season so early then they are basically stuck roaming around Europe until after RG. They can't really sneak back and forth to their home bases.

2) Previous MC history of American nonparticipation has hardened. It has been bred in their minds that they don't really need to show up for European clay season until Italian open. Everyone else does it, so why would I want to be stuck there alone.

3) Availability of clay tournament in US. Houston provides some adjustment to the long points on clay and allows the players to quickly go back home after it and prepare for Italian Open.

4) Monte Carlo tournament is a bit of a distraction. The venues are not really the best for players to move around and not be pestered by fans, cameraman, reporters. There is too much pressure so early in the clay season.

5) Rome's fast clay is a good place to start for the Americans.

gogogirl
04-18-2008, 12:17 AM
skipping masters events gets much harder next year. a team of doctors will examine you to make sure that there is something is wrong with you. no more bullshit execuses.

Monte Carlo will no longer be a required Masters event next year event. the points wil be there as well all the tradition and prestige.

Hamburg loses its Masters status in 2009. Madrid goes to clay.

All,

But Clay - I must have missed it - because I thought players could skip two or was it just one without being fined and what not. What did I miss and when? When did they change thangs pray tell?

I admit, I'm a step slow when it comes to many things involving the tour behind most.

Clay Death
04-18-2008, 12:24 AM
All,

But Clay - I must have missed it - because I thought players could skip two or was it just one without being fined and what not. What did I miss and when? When did they change thangs pray tell?

I admit, I'm a step slow when it comes to many things involving the tour behind most.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaz up gogogirl? you are doing just fine. i can name a few clowns here who are slow. you know who you are clowns. how ya doin clowns?


we have 9 required masters series events now. they cant skip any of them but atp buys their bullshit esecuses and lets them get away with it.

atp has wised up and gotten serious about making sure the best possible product is put out there for public consumption. enter fines, suspensions, and the like starting in 2009. no more skipping unless something is really wrong and in which case, a team of experts will examine you.

the number of required atp masters series events drops to 8 in 2009. Hamburg is gone. monte carlo loses its masters status but players will play because of its rich tradition. it also keeps its points so you know all the top guns---excepts for the cowards--will be there.

gogogirl
04-18-2008, 12:32 AM
All,

Thanks Clay. But Rog had hissen's he missed. And Rafa his and etc.

Corey Feldman
04-18-2008, 12:41 AM
All,

Thanks Clay. But Rog had hissen's he missed. And Rafa his and etc.what?

Clay Death
04-18-2008, 12:43 AM
i am not following that gogogirl? come again. what exactly is your question?

gogogirl
04-18-2008, 12:44 AM
All,

Didn't Roger, Rafa and others have a Master Series tourney that they were prone to miss in years past?

Clay Death
04-18-2008, 12:49 AM
All,

Didn't Roger, Rafa and others have a Master Series tourney that they were prone to miss in years past?


Clay Monster has missed Hamburg a few times and Fed usually misses Paris Masters. both made Hamburg and Paris last year.

gogogirl
04-18-2008, 01:00 AM
All,

Ditto. Thanks.

jcempire
04-18-2008, 03:10 AM
Because we Americans don't have to do anything we don't want to do because we're AMERICANS!!! :angel: So, there!!!

Besides, what attractions can Monte Carlo have that we don't already have in South Beach and Las Vegas? :confused:


LOL, Possible

I guess they don't want to waste money for a Airline Ticket

Fee
04-18-2008, 03:36 AM
Yes, I have. I was just crackin' wise. Yanking your chain, if you will. :p

You're not yanking anything on my goyfriend without my permission dammit. Back off!







:lol:

Fee
04-18-2008, 03:55 AM
You're right Fee, I forgot. You two are Americans, and J held you around the waist, which means you're a couple. Bygones. :hatoff:

Exactly. I'm glad you understand now. Wanna share my avocado with me? I have sea salt!

Clay Death
04-18-2008, 03:59 AM
You're right Fee, I forgot. You two are Americans, and J held you around the waist, which means you're a couple. Bygones. :hatoff:


Kitty who is the person in the new avatar? i had formed an attachment with your last one. she was sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo hot.

Lee
04-18-2008, 04:06 AM
:scratch: Will this be the next most derailed thread in GM?

~*BGT*~
04-18-2008, 04:11 AM
Sam Querrey is on the list and hasn't withdrawn and I don't think he will.

Looks like he is going to be the Lone Ranger in Monte Carlo, think Spadea was the last American to go there besides Steve Ulrich and Norm Chryst.

Sam is also the only American at Munich this year. Sammy representin' :hatoff:

jeahhh!
04-18-2008, 04:13 AM
Wanna share my avocado with me? I have sea salt!

Yum... oh wait am I in the wrong thread :rolls:

I want avocado now though :lick:


Oh and boo the Americans. :D just to keep on topic with the thread

Clay Death
04-18-2008, 04:28 AM
She was beautiful, CD. I agree. She's resting at the Hot Chick Oasis for tonight. :)

You are looking at Mr. Shmucky von Saurkraut. He's a mean boy who makes Kitty cry. :awww:


never heard of him Kitty. is he recording star from Germany? also why does he make you cry?

Manon
04-18-2008, 02:19 PM
Can you imagine an American in a French region like Monaco? I don't think american players feel well there.

Bingo:worship:

Action Jackson
04-18-2008, 02:22 PM
It was bumped to make fun of the fact that Andy and James skip Monte Carlo every year, and someone at MTF usually starts a thread to get upset about it. This is what they call 'tongue-in-cheek'. :)

Called getting retaliation in first.

MusicMyst
04-18-2008, 03:42 PM
Because after you've gambled at the Seminole Hard Rock Casino, Monte Carlo is a bore. :angel:

And Americans don't need to spend any time in Monte Carlo to avoid paying taxes in their home countries, like the Europeans do. :angel: :angel:

Jimnik
04-18-2008, 03:53 PM
The way I see it, if they had grasscourts, the Americans wouldn't hate Monte-Carlo anymore.

Bilbo
04-20-2008, 09:59 PM
This is my yearly infamous thread about Americans and Monte Carlo. Again this year there's only one American in the main draw. At some years there was not even one.

Do Americans have a beef with Monte Carlo or what's going on?

Sjengster
04-20-2008, 10:08 PM
Some good original discussion coming up here Bilbo, your initiation of it is much appreciated.

TankingTheSet
04-20-2008, 10:10 PM
:silly: :retard:

Quite on character of you to start the 27th thread of a subject that has just been beaten to death already on GM in the last few days.

And an "infamous thread" as well. :worship:

Fee
04-20-2008, 10:10 PM
Holy fuck, are you kidding? This should be locked.

Alex999
04-20-2008, 10:15 PM
We should use this thread to post our cake and cookies pictures :lol:.

Sjengster
04-20-2008, 10:17 PM
This would have been a relevant discussion about four years ago, when both Roddick and Blake were still young in tennis terms, but they turn 26 and 29 this year respectively and it's obvious they're never going to achieve anything great on clay, so why people are complaining about their absence as if their presence would add anything terrific to the main draw is beyond me. I think some posters are just upset at missing out on a chance to see them get schooled on clay and then laugh about it. And hey, at least the youngster Querrey has turned up to try and get an early start on the clay, though being pitted against Moya means there will be ample opportunity for pouring scorn on him afterwards.

I was going to suggest that Roddick was missing a trick by not using the claycourt season as Henman and Hewitt did to build up matchplay and physical fitness for the grass season, but thinking about it, when has a lack of matches on clay ever gone on to hurt him on grass? The only sub-par grass season he had in the last five years was when he injured his knee at the WTC and had to retire in the first round of RG, other early exits haven't harmed him at all.

justClaudia
04-20-2008, 10:21 PM
We should use this thread to post our cake and cookies pictures :lol:.

And make it last until next year so that Bilbo can bump it again around Monte Carlo/Rome/Hamburg time, yeah, that'd be nice.

Alex999
04-20-2008, 10:24 PM
And make it last until next year so that Bilbo can bump it again around Monte Carlo/Rome/Hamburg time, yeah, that'd be nice.
:lol::lol::lol:

Dancing Hero
04-20-2008, 10:25 PM
The last American who cared about Monte Carlo was Grace Kelly! :)


They've never took much interest in the dirt courts, and that stretches back years.

Adler
04-20-2008, 10:26 PM
The last American who cared about Monte Carlo was Grace Kelly!
That made my day :haha:

Dancing Hero
04-20-2008, 10:30 PM
That made my day :haha:


:wavey::devil:

Fee
04-20-2008, 11:49 PM
We should use this thread to post our cake and cookies pictures :lol:.

Excellent idea!

Fee
04-20-2008, 11:54 PM
Damn it Sjengster, you put this thread back on track with your perfectly sensible post.

cherry2008
04-20-2008, 11:59 PM
Americans hate the FO and Monte Carlo has the most similar surface to the FO there is.

Deboogle!.
04-21-2008, 12:07 AM
Americans hate the FO and Monte Carlo has the most similar surface to the FO there is.Andy loved Houston, which flew clay in from Paris - the same EXACT clay used at RG - nice try though :D

i'm with fee, Sjengster, you should know by now that making sense in GM especially about this subject is not allowed :D

cobalt60
04-21-2008, 12:15 AM
I never get tired of this subject. :hearts:
But I ask you; why should anyone care? They don't;) And they still will be able to retire early on the earnings they have made :banana:

bad gambler
04-21-2008, 12:18 AM
This thread should be stickied :p

Lee
04-21-2008, 12:21 AM
Andy loved Houston, which flew clay in from Paris - the same EXACT clay used at RG - nice try though :D

i'm with fee, Sjengster, you should know by now that making sense in GM especially about this subject is not allowed :D

tsk tsk Deb. You did the same thing in the first sentence that you and fee told Sjengster not to in your 2nd sentence. :angel:

This thread should be stickied :p

The weeks before and during Monte Carlo. :)

Deboogle!.
04-21-2008, 12:22 AM
d'oh, I should be punished :smash:

cobalt60
04-21-2008, 12:24 AM
d'oh, I should be punished :smash:

Follow the rules of passover for the entire week.

Deboogle!.
04-21-2008, 12:28 AM
Um, I ate a sandwich for lunch :rolls:

Fee
04-21-2008, 01:21 AM
This thread should be stickied :p

Well get on it, good fellow, you're a Moderator for dog's sake!



(I'm suddenly possessed by Dickens apparently)

Sjengster
04-21-2008, 12:54 PM
And hey, at least the youngster Querrey has turned up to try and get an early start on the clay, though being pitted against Moya means there will be ample opportunity for pouring scorn on him afterwards.

A clever piece of dissimulation on my part. ;)

mariyella80
04-21-2008, 01:00 PM
hahahahah....AMERICANS SUCK ON CLAY.......its that simple......and good ridence , the europeans are BETTER LOOKING and play better tennis....and as for comparing vegas and monte carlo......thats like comparing chanel clothing with Jcrew......INCOMPARABLE.........

Monteque
04-21-2008, 01:11 PM
Sam Querrey :confused:

star
04-21-2008, 02:31 PM
A clever piece of dissimulation on my part. ;)

Although you could simply claim the antecedent for "him" was indeed Moya. :p

:bigclap: Sam.

Moya's not what he once was, but it's still a nice victory for Sam.

cherry2008
04-21-2008, 02:38 PM
hahahahah....AMERICANS SUCK ON CLAY.......its that simple......and good ridence , the europeans are BETTER LOOKING and play better tennis....and as for comparing vegas and monte carlo......thats like comparing chanel clothing with Jcrew......INCOMPARABLE.........

True the europeans are better looking than the americans. the only good looking american is roddick.

kaylee
04-21-2008, 04:01 PM
ummmm what does stickied mean??????

Deboogle!.
04-21-2008, 04:03 PM
uh, made a sticky?

Fee
04-21-2008, 06:19 PM
hahahahah....AMERICANS SUCK ON CLAY.......its that simple......and good ridence , the europeans are BETTER LOOKING and play better tennis....and as for comparing vegas and monte carlo......thats like comparing chanel clothing with Jcrew......INCOMPARABLE.........


Ahhh, look who has returned to bless us with some pearls of wisdom. Praise be.

alfonsojose
04-21-2008, 06:36 PM
True the europeans are better looking than the americans. the only good looking american is roddick.

Ginepri is hotter

star
04-21-2008, 06:46 PM
True the europeans are better looking than the americans. the only good looking american is roddick.

Seriously? I think Isner is better looking. James was too when he had hair.

It's sadly true that the American guys are lacking in sexiness though. :sad: :sad: :sad:

Deboogle!.
04-21-2008, 06:49 PM
Seriously? I think Isner is better looking. James was too when he had hair.

It's sadly true that the American guys are lacking in sexiness though. :sad: :sad: :sad:Spadea's going to be so offended you said this :sad:

Action Jackson
04-28-2009, 05:28 PM
This subject is done every year, so might as well merge all the threads into one.

Jimnik
04-28-2009, 05:32 PM
They don't hate Monte-Carlo. They hate red dirt, especially the type found thousands of miles from home.

ORGASMATRON
04-28-2009, 05:34 PM
I think its cos they hate the French :o

Erica86
04-28-2009, 09:29 PM
Right now, there are many people who don't like it. Nobody likes losing.
I suppose they hate losing, rather than Montecarlo in itself.

bizzle
04-28-2009, 10:38 PM
I think its cos they hate the French :o

That doesn't stop the rest of the world from going :angel:

Venle
04-29-2009, 11:43 AM
Because red dirt disgusts them and they don't want to wash their socks all the time.

Or I dunno.

ORGASMATRON
04-29-2009, 11:58 AM
Americans think clay is not an important surface, showing their ignorance. This is also why Fed will be the GOAT and not one dimensional Sampy.

the graduate
04-29-2009, 04:36 PM
Its hush hush in USA that the French have BO....;)

cocrcici
04-29-2009, 04:38 PM
Americans think clay is not an important surface, showing their ignorance. This is also why Fed will be the GOAT and not one dimensional Sampy.

:cool:

Erica86
04-29-2009, 05:33 PM
Americans think clay is not an important surface, showing their ignorance. This is also why Fed will be the GOAT and not one dimensional Sampy.

If you really think that Federer is going to ever beat Nadal on clay, you must know something that the rest of us have no idea about.

Erica86
04-29-2009, 05:36 PM
Rather than clay, what I mean is Roland Garros. OK. Federer can beat Nadal in one Master series like Hamburg if Nadal is really tired, but RG has a king till Nadal retires.

ORGASMATRON
04-29-2009, 05:41 PM
If you really think that Federer is going to ever beat Nadal on clay, you must know something that the rest of us have no idea about.

Who said he has to beat Blanka to be the GOAT? Anyway he has already beaten him on clay. And one set was a bagel.

Erica86
04-29-2009, 05:53 PM
Who said he has to beat Blanka to be the GOAT? Anyway he has already beaten him on clay. And one set was a bagel.

Why didn't you read my second post?
Ferrero beat Nadal last year too on clay. Does that mean Juan Carlos is better than Rafa on clay?
Obviously not. There was a reason, exactly the same as in Hamburg.
If there is a single person who thinks that somebody is better than Nadal on clay, he is an absolute ignorant of the game.

ORGASMATRON
04-29-2009, 06:02 PM
Why didn't you read my second post?
Ferrero beat Nadal last year too on clay. Does that mean Juan Carlos is better than Rafa on clay?
Obviously not. There was a reason, exactly the same as in Hamburg.
If there is a single person who thinks that somebody is better than Nadal on clay, he is an absolute ignorant of the game.

I dont know what your talking about. I never said anybody is better then Blanka on clay. You on drugs perhaps? ;)

Roddickominator
04-29-2009, 06:25 PM
Americans think clay is not an important surface, showing their ignorance. This is also why Fed will be the GOAT and not one dimensional Sampy.

:rolleyes:

Just to play along....Sampras' "one-dimensional" game was good enough to dominate his era and win more GS's than anyone ever. Why bother with "more dimensions" when he can crush everyone without? Either way, Sampras could hold his own on the baseline, and was an absolutely dominant S&Ver. Add in his mental strength and he was hardly one-dimensional.

Fed can thank this mug era and the homogenizing of the surfaces for his success....and even then we'll see if he can beat Pistol Pete's GS mark. And even so....Pete was never dominated by a contemporary to the extent that Fed has been with Nadal. So it will be an argument as to whether Fed is even the greatest of his era, and even moreso the GOAT.

American players give less effort(and care less) with clay because it is an inferior, outdated surface. Why play in the mud like little children, where ball bounces are uneven....and where ugly, mediocre, grinding and defensive tennis is rewarded? There's no point in doing that when we can play on hard courts....where the ball bounce is true and where shotmaking and true skill is rewarded. Playing on clay is very barbaric...like playing baseball with a tree branch and an apple core instead of a bat and ball....very amateurish. But enjoy watching Nadal roll around in the mud and crush everyone on clay for the next 5 years!

ORGASMATRON
04-29-2009, 06:41 PM
:rolleyes:

Just to play along....Sampras' "one-dimensional" game was good enough to dominate his era and win more GS's than anyone ever. Why bother with "more dimensions" when he can crush everyone without? Either way, Sampras could hold his own on the baseline, and was an absolutely dominant S&Ver. Add in his mental strength and he was hardly one-dimensional.

Fed can thank this mug era and the homogenizing of the surfaces for his success....and even then we'll see if he can beat Pistol Pete's GS mark. And even so....Pete was never dominated by a contemporary to the extent that Fed has been with Nadal. So it will be an argument as to whether Fed is even the greatest of his era, and even moreso the GOAT.

American players give less effort(and care less) with clay because it is an inferior, outdated surface. Why play in the mud like little children, where ball bounces are uneven....and where ugly, mediocre, grinding and defensive tennis is rewarded? There's no point in doing that when we can play on hard courts....where the ball bounce is true and where shotmaking and true skill is rewarded. Playing on clay is very barbaric...like playing baseball with a tree branch and an apple core instead of a bat and ball....very amateurish. But enjoy watching Nadal roll around in the mud and crush everyone on clay for the next 5 years!

Your just bitter Fed owns your best player of the last 10 years 17-2. There was a time when guys like Agassi, Courier and Chang could play on clay. But it seems these days you have lost your way. So what you are saying is that American players are a bunch of pussies. Very amaturish? Please grow up! What is really going on is that Americans are a bunch of spoiled brats that cant travel out of the comfort of their own country and go grind it out on clay. Its pathetic!!!

Oh and btw Fed is already better the one dimensional Sampy! Federer beat Sampy, he owned Sampy's biggest rival, and he was in the era of guys like Safin and Hewitt, both of whom beat Pete in grand slam finals! He could also play on clay, unlike your one dimensional Sampy who tried his ass off to win RG but never even made the final!

heya
04-29-2009, 07:12 PM
Why play in the mud like little children, where ball bounces are uneven....and where ugly, mediocre, grinding and defensive tennis is rewarded? There's no point in doing that when we can play on hard courts....where the ball bounce is true and where shotmaking and true skill is rewarded. Playing on clay is very barbaric...like playing baseball with a tree branch and an apple core instead of a bat and ball....very amateurish. But enjoy watching Nadal roll around in the mud and crush everyone on clay for the next 5 years! FedererSuryaBonaly requires indifferent worshippers to choke and lose fitness on all courts. In the 2006 bye-bye tour, Agassi was a crying buffoon after he bowed down to Federer; Agassi lost Slams, and Davis Cup 1st round and quarterfinal, as Sampras did.

Har-Tru
04-29-2009, 07:27 PM
American players give less effort(and care less) with clay because it is an inferior, outdated surface. Why play in the mud like little children, where ball bounces are uneven....and where ugly, mediocre, grinding and defensive tennis is rewarded? There's no point in doing that when we can play on hard courts....where the ball bounce is true and where shotmaking and true skill is rewarded. Playing on clay is very barbaric...like playing baseball with a tree branch and an apple core instead of a bat and ball....very amateurish. But enjoy watching Nadal roll around in the mud and crush everyone on clay for the next 5 years!

Congratulations. You just made it into my sig.

tangerine_dream
04-29-2009, 07:41 PM
Why play on clay when you can Twitter all day instead? :lol:

ORGASMATRON
04-29-2009, 07:44 PM
Congratulations. You just made it into my sig.

Why am i not surprised you would put junk like that in your sig?

Har-Tru
04-29-2009, 07:49 PM
Why am i not surprised you would put junk like that in your sig?

Because you know I know some junk can be hilarious.

ORGASMATRON
04-29-2009, 08:12 PM
Because you know I know some junk can be hilarious.

Hilarious cos of how dumb it is.

Har-Tru
04-29-2009, 08:35 PM
Hilarious cos of how dumb it is.

You got it. :yeah:

Erica86
04-29-2009, 08:53 PM
I dont know what your talking about. I never said anybody is better then Blanka on clay. You on drugs perhaps? ;)


No, I am not on drugs. I can still see the difference between the spelling of 'Nadal' and 'Blanka' on my keyboard.

Smasher
04-29-2009, 09:00 PM
Is anyone surprised that ORGASMATRON and Erica86 managed to bring Nadal and Federer to be a part of another thread yet again?