Dubai tournament security risks? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Dubai tournament security risks?

uNIVERSE mAN
02-24-2006, 06:35 PM
With the volatility in the region right now, I'd think there'd be some security risks for player safety etc, I'm surprised there's no talk about it especially since U.A.E. is on the border of the gulf coast. Are my concerns unwarranted? any opinions?

Horatio Caine
02-24-2006, 06:37 PM
I wouldn't think so. Only problems may be flying in.

mangoes
02-24-2006, 06:37 PM
Actually, the same thing crossed my mind. But, I just figured, I'm probably overreacting.

Vass
02-24-2006, 07:17 PM
Thisa thread is rediculous. UAE is the safest country in the world.
Seriously.

NATAS81
02-24-2006, 08:46 PM
:rolleyes:

ae wowww
02-24-2006, 09:09 PM
I had concerns also, certainly should be thought about. I imagine tournament personnel, ATP etc have done as much as possible.

Peoples
02-24-2006, 09:16 PM
Maybe there are terrorists coming in from other countries nearby?

uNIVERSE mAN
02-24-2006, 09:55 PM
Yeah and that's why the Americans are going berserk about having any business relationship with U.A.E.???

lunahielo
02-24-2006, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by uNIVERSE mAN
Yeah and that's why the Americans are going berserk about having any business relationship with U.A.E.???
Please don't generalize about all Americans.
Many have some sense. ;)

Dirk
02-24-2006, 10:32 PM
There are reasons for both accepting and denying the port US deal. I once read that the Dubai event refused to let Anna Smashnova play there or let her bring her team with her.

mangoes
02-25-2006, 12:00 AM
Please don't generalize about all Americans.
Many have some sense. ;)

I am an American with some sense, and I'm not so ready to blindly open my arms in welcome. I'm also not saying 'no' but, I don't like the underhanded way the Bush administration is pushing this deal through. There are pros and cons to this deal that have to be considered.

Socket
02-25-2006, 12:44 AM
There are reasons for both accepting and denying the port US deal. I once read that the Dubai event refused to let Anna Smashnova play there or let her bring her team with her.
You're correct about Smashnova. As this webpage clearly states, Israeli citizens are not allowed to enter Dubai.

http://dubaitourism.co.ae/Travel/default.asp?SubCatID=43

LoveFifteen
02-25-2006, 01:33 AM
The players should boycott Dubai if they refuse to let Isrealis play.

Socket
02-25-2006, 01:51 AM
The players should boycott Dubai if they refuse to let Isrealis play.
Don't hold your breath waiting; those fat guarantees have worked their magic.

ezekiel
02-25-2006, 01:54 AM
dubai or UAE was one of the only states to recognize taliban while it lasted so that tells a lot. However I think this tournament is run by expatriates from the western world so it shouldn't be much of an issue

Dirk
02-25-2006, 03:10 AM
dubai or UAE was one of the only states to recognize taliban while it lasted so that tells a lot. However I think this tournament is run by expatriates from the western world so it shouldn't be much of an issue

Then why don't they let Jews play?

Dirk
02-25-2006, 03:13 AM
I am an American with some sense, and I'm not so ready to blindly open my arms in welcome. I'm also not saying 'no' but, I don't like the underhanded way the Bush administration is pushing this deal through. There are pros and cons to this deal that have to be considered.

I am not for Bush on some major things like immigration and spending but this deal was not pushed through. The Treasury department has a committee that has always handled these deals. They took 3 months to consider it and this further reviewing is very good news. I find it refreshing that US citizens are still focused on security because this sets up my man Tancredo very nicely come primary time in 08.

Dirk
02-25-2006, 03:15 AM
dubai or UAE was one of the only states to recognize taliban while it lasted so that tells a lot. However I think this tournament is run by expatriates from the western world so it shouldn't be much of an issue

They didn't let our Feds go through their bank records of the terrorists passing money through their banks. They have been better with helping us after 9/11 but they still have a little more to prove in order to get the port deal for me.

*Viva Chile*
02-25-2006, 03:24 AM
I don't think so, the WTA event is currently playing this week, and mention that Sharapova, Hingis and other important tennis names are there and not happened any rare situation, and it seems that the security works well.

mangoes
02-25-2006, 04:46 AM
I am not for Bush on some major things like immigration and spending but this deal was not pushed through. The Treasury department has a committee that has always handled these deals. They took 3 months to consider it and this further reviewing is very good news. I find it refreshing that US citizens are still focused on security because this sets up my man Tancredo very nicely come primary time in 08.

I'm going to disagree with you where this is concerned. Politics is never a clean game. There is always an under the table deal..........especially with the Bush administration. But, enough with the politics :D Have a nice weekend :wavey:

ezekiel
02-25-2006, 05:00 AM
Then why don't they let Jews play?

Because jews have to land on an airport and most arab states have this appaling policy of banning israelis period.

Jordanjames
02-25-2006, 05:03 AM
I actually heard a lot of Middle East nations are wealthy. I hear the standard of living in Kuwait is very high. And in Qatar, and United Arab Emirates..the people have a very high standard of living as well....

Jordanjames
02-25-2006, 05:04 AM
But I do admit..I was thinking the same thing..worrying about the security of the players...

Action Jackson
02-25-2006, 06:03 AM
Nothing to worry about.

El Legenda
02-25-2006, 06:09 AM
They didn't let our Feds go through their bank records of the terrorists passing money through their banks. They have been better with helping us after 9/11 but they still have a little more to prove in order to get the port deal for me.

Do american let other counties go through their bank records? does any other county have a army base in US?

RonE
02-25-2006, 09:48 AM
Then why don't they let Jews play?

Ah, didn't you hear? Jews conspire to control the world. Who knows- maybe the Israeli players are spies for the mossad :rolleyes:

As for the players banning the tournament- no chance. The Arabs had an economic embargo on Israel that lasted for years and no one- not even the great U.S of A- lifted a finger to do anything about it. Money talks and BS walks. Why should anyone give a shit or do anything about a couple of insignificant tennis players who just so happen to have commited the attrocious crime of being born in a certain country?

NicoFan
02-25-2006, 12:48 PM
I don't think there is much of a security concern. Any more than in any other nation.

With that said, I very much hate their policies regarding Jews, and I really am disgusted that they recognized the Taliban. And so on principal I hope that none of my favorites ever play there.

About the port thing - I live in NYC - I don't want the UAE to be in charge of port security. A lot of money comes from the UAE to support terrorism, and it would be much easier for Al Queda to infiltrate a company there than here.

Godiva
02-25-2006, 12:59 PM
I think the players should boycott until the UAE change their policies. Pressure can be put on them just like it was put on South Africa. Today they discriminate against the Israelis, tomorrow it may be women, next year it may be blacks, later it may be all non muslims. I say, to hell with the money and stand for principle. :(

NicoFan
02-25-2006, 01:04 PM
I think the players should boycott until the UAE change their policies. Pressure can be put on them just like it was put on South Africa. Today they discriminate against the Israelis, tomorrow it may be women, next year it may be blacks, later it may be all non muslims. I say, to hell with the money and stand for principle. :(

I agree.

But it won't happen. :sad:

And I think they already do discriminate against women. :(

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 01:12 PM
I am an American with some sense.

No you're not.

:wavey:

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 01:13 PM
You're correct about Smashnova. As this webpage clearly states, Israeli citizens are not allowed to enter Dubai.

http://dubaitourism.co.ae/Travel/default.asp?SubCatID=43
Yes, and I bet many people (Europeans, especially) would back them up.

In Athens 2004 an Irani judoka, a heavy favourite to win a medal, was forced by his government to pull out (!!!) of the competition because he was drawn to face an Israeli in his 1st round.

When Bayern Munich came to Israel for their Champions League group phase game against Maccabi Tel Aviv their Irani striker stayed in Germany.

Needless to say - we'd be glad to host any muslim/arabic sportsman, regardless of his nationality.

Socket
02-25-2006, 01:19 PM
Ah, didn't you hear? Jews conspire to control the world. Who knows- maybe the Israeli players are spies for the mossad :rolleyes:

As for the players banning the tournament- no chance. The Arabs had an economic embargo on Israel that lasted for years and no one- not even the great U.S of A- lifted a finger to do anything about it. Money talks and BS walks. Why should anyone give a shit or do anything about a couple of insignificant tennis players who just so happen to have commited the attrocious crime of being born in a certain country?
Actually, the US has laws and regulations forbidding US companies from complying with the Arab boycott, although it's notoriously had to monitor and enforce the regulations.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/AntiboycottCompliance/Default.htm

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 01:19 PM
Ah, didn't you hear? Jews conspire to control the world. Who knows- maybe the Israeli players are spies for the mossad :rolleyes:

As for the players banning the tournament- no chance. The Arabs had an economic embargo on Israel that lasted for years and no one- not even the great U.S of A- lifted a finger to do anything about it. Money talks and BS walks. Why should anyone give a shit or do anything about a couple of insignificant tennis players who just so happen to have commited the attrocious crime of being born in a certain country?

That's true.

Another example of that is the way no one does anything for the Tibetean people, just beacuse it's easier to kiss the Chinese people's ass.

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:05 PM
The players should boycott Dubai if they refuse to let Isrealis play.

Try telling that to Agassi when he's stuffing those paycheques in his pocket.

:rolleyes:

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:10 PM
That's true.

Another example of that is the way no one does anything for the Tibetean people, just beacuse it's easier to kiss the Chinese people's ass.

We should have never let China into our economy to begin with but that is because we had Nixon and not Reagan now we have to deal with China as a powerful enemy. :rolleyes:

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:11 PM
I'm going to disagree with you where this is concerned. Politics is never a clean game. There is always an under the table deal..........especially with the Bush administration. But, enough with the politics :D Have a nice weekend :wavey:

This procedure is the same regardless who is in office. The House and Senate do not handle selling contracts, the executive branch does.

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:16 PM
They didn't let our Feds go through their bank records of the terrorists passing money through their banks. They have been better with helping us after 9/11 but they still have a little more to prove in order to get the port deal for me.

Why should they help the US?

It's not like the US would have the UAE's best interests in mind in return for sharing all relevant information and intelligence.

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:16 PM
Do american let other counties go through their bank records? does any other county have a army base in US?

Um we share our intel on our enemy with our allies and even non allies. They wouldn't have to ask twice to see the banking records of terrorists. I don't see why any ally would want to put a base here in the US because we are capable of defending ourselves but if they wanted to they could try to sell that idea before us.

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:19 PM
Why should they help the US?

It's not like the US would have the UAE's best interests in mind in return for sharing all relevant information and intelligence.

Um since we have opened our markets to them they would. What would be the best interest of UAE? What that they become more opened to other nations and corporate (which they have to a degree) against an enemy that hates them too? That is such a terrible interest. :rolleyes:

onewoman74
02-25-2006, 02:24 PM
I am an American with some sense, and I'm not so ready to blindly open my arms in welcome. I'm also not saying 'no' but, I don't like the underhanded way the Bush administration is pushing this deal through. There are pros and cons to this deal that have to be considered.


This is the Bush family making secret deals as usual...it's always them putting themselves first before the American people... more money, more money, more money!!!

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:24 PM
I actually heard a lot of Middle East nations are wealthy. I hear the standard of living in Kuwait is very high. And in Qatar, and United Arab Emirates..the people have a very high standard of living as well....

In general, people from these countries are better educated, wealthier, safer and happier with their lives than Americans are.

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 02:27 PM
In general, people from these countries are better educated, wealthier, safer and happier with their lives than Americans are.
that might be true for the men.
Women in those countries, however, are often not allowed to issue a driving license or take to high studies.

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:28 PM
This is the Bush family making secret deals as usual...it's always them putting themselves first before the American people... more money, more money, more money!!!

Read my post about the Treasury department handling the renewal and sale of contracts. No Bid contracts are nothing new and Haliburton was used to rebuild after other wars too because one they are pretty much the only company who can do it. The reason for no bids is because too much time and red tape blocks anything being done as soon as possible.

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:29 PM
Ah, didn't you hear? Jews conspire to control the world. Who knows- maybe the Israeli players are spies for the mossad :rolleyes:

As for the players banning the tournament- no chance. The Arabs had an economic embargo on Israel that lasted for years and no one- not even the great U.S of A- lifted a finger to do anything about it. Money talks and BS walks. Why should anyone give a shit or do anything about a couple of insignificant tennis players who just so happen to have commited the attrocious crime of being born in a certain country?

Take a look at the bigger picture.

Why should innocent Iraki children and their families be slaughtered and tortured and bombed and have their whole lives taken away from them, all because they're born in a country that is high in valuable natural resources?

:rolleyes:

It almost makes tennis seem insignificant.

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:30 PM
that might be true for the men.
Women in those countries, however, are often not allowed to issue a driving license or take to high studies.

Of course we know why they are wealthier too, because of the oil they sell. That is not entirely the reason but it does help them greatly. I wish we could send them all of our watermelon enviromentalists to bitch about oil drilling over there so we could actually DRILL HERE!!! :fiery:

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 02:32 PM
Take a look at the bigger picture.

Why should innocent Iraki children and their families be slaughtered and tortured and bombed and have their whole lives taken away from them, all because they're born in a country that is high in valuable natural resources?

:rolleyes:

It almost makes tennis seem insignificant.
Of course, they had previously had a great life, under a regime that revered justice and freedom.

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:33 PM
Take a look at the bigger picture.

Why should innocent Iraki children and their families be slaughtered and tortured and bombed and have their whole lives taken away from them, all because they're born in a country that is high in valuable natural resources?

:rolleyes:

It almost makes tennis seem insignificant.

You just don't get it. EVIL BUSH MADE IT SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO REPAY US FOR ALL THE MONEY WE ARE PUTTING INTO REBUILDING THAT COUNTRY!!! Look that up and smoke it in your pipe.

Ok dogooder, then explain to me how humane it is to let millions of people suffer under one of the most brutal governments just so you can say " I oppose war and am for peace"

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:34 PM
Of course, they had previously had a great life, under a regime that revered justice and freedom.

YES AND THEN EVIL BUSH HAD TO LIBERATE 25 MILLION MUSLIMS. SOMETHING THAT NONE OF THE OTHER RICH EDUCATED MODERATE ARAB NATIONS WOULD EVER DO!!

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 02:36 PM
EDUCATED MODERATE ARAB NATIONS :haha:

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:37 PM
:haha:

I was referring to UAE and Kuiwait and being sarcastic. I know full well none exist.

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 02:38 PM
I was referring to UAE and Kuiwait and being sarcastic. I know full well none exist.
I got the sarcasm.

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:38 PM
Um since we have opened our markets to them they would. What would be the best interest of UAE? What that they become more opened to other nations and corporate (which they have to a degree) against an enemy that hates them too? That is such a terrible interest. :rolleyes:

Yes, you are right, there would be no consequences for the UAE if they paraded around stark naked for Uncle Sam.

:)

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:40 PM
Yes, you are right, there would be no consequences for the UAE if they paraded around stark naked for Uncle Sam.

:)

They wouldn't be the only nation in that part of the world who was helping us. You fear from the extremists to control everything over there?

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:42 PM
Of course, they had previously had a great life, under a regime that revered justice and freedom.

The World isn't fair, but we already know this.

Who is to decide what is an appropriate level of justice and freedom for everybody?

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:43 PM
You just don't get it. EVIL BUSH MADE IT SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO REPAY US FOR ALL THE MONEY WE ARE PUTTING INTO REBUILDING THAT COUNTRY!!! Look that up and smoke it in your pipe.

Ok dogooder, then explain to me how humane it is to let millions of people suffer under one of the most brutal governments just so you can say " I oppose war and am for peace"

I nominate Bush for the Nobel Peace Prize.

its.like.that
02-25-2006, 02:45 PM
I was referring to UAE and Kuiwait and being sarcastic. I know full well none exist.

If only every country could be as educated and democratic as the US of A.

:worship:

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 02:48 PM
The World isn't fair, but we already know this.

Who is to decide what is an appropriate level of justice and freedom for everybody?
You can't claim their lives have become worse though, since they weren't that good in the first place.

If anything, now they at least have hope that things can get better - that, of course, if they're able to control their extremists.

One has to be quite blind to blame the US for the world's troubles - take one look at the new islamic Europe and tell me who the modern world's real enemy is.

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:52 PM
Rogiman, I love moral relativists like Jimbo not wanting to judge anyone badly but breaks his credo when Bush's name or USA's name is mentioned. :lol:

Dirk
02-25-2006, 02:54 PM
You can't claim their lives have become worse though, since they weren't that good in the first place.

If anything, now they at least have hope that things can get better - that, of course, if they're able to control their extremists.

One has to be quite blind to blame the US for the world's troubles - take one look at the new islamic Europe and tell me who the modern world's real enemy is.


Yes, and take a look at who is destroying their mosques, it is not the US or any coalition member who tip toes around them out of respect. It is their own radical irk. Iraq had no religious freedom until we came there.

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 03:00 PM
Rogiman, I love moral relativists like Jimbo not wanting to judge anyone badly but breaks his credo when Bush's name or USA's name is mentioned. :lol:
He's Australian, isn't he?
I've been to Australia, no wonder he's being so naive about the middle-eastern situation, considering they have no one to threaten them in sight and they (the European settlers in Aus that is) have literally butched the natives to prevent any resistance.

I would love him to swap seats with me for a couple months, just for him to confront some of the problems that appear when living alongside arabic population (although he should have known by now, seeing as the Lebanese community in Aus causes many troubles there too).

Dirk
02-25-2006, 03:03 PM
He's Australian, isn't he?
I've been to Australia, no wonder he's being so naive about the middle-eastern situation, considering they have no one to threaten them in sight and they (the European settlers in Aus that is) have literally butched the natives to prevent any resistance.

I would love him to swap seats with me for a couple months, just for him to confront some of the problems that appear when living alongside arabic population (although he should have known by now, seeing as the Lebanese community in Aus causes many troubles there too).

Believe it or not, those arab elections over there are a good thing in one instance because it shows that it is not just a few of them. Israel should be able to make that place next door to you Area 54 as far I am concerned. I do love that you cut off handing over tax money to them. Hamas needs to be wipe out. They not the jews are the real enemies of the muslims.

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 03:09 PM
Believe it or not, those arab elections over there are a good thing in one instance because it shows that it is not just a few of them. Israel should be able to make that place next door to you Area 54 as far I am concerned. I do love that you cut off handing over tax money to them. Hamas needs to be wipe out. They not the jews are the real enemies of the muslims.
Well, having pulled out of Gaza strip should make it easier now for us to punish them when punishment is due.

Although I must emphasize that the majority of people in the west bank are pretty moderate, they're paying the price for their radical compatriots in Gaza strip, and I truly pity them.

RonE
02-25-2006, 04:26 PM
Actually, the US has laws and regulations forbidding US companies from complying with the Arab boycott, although it's notoriously had to monitor and enforce the regulations.

http://www.bis.doc.gov/AntiboycottCompliance/Default.htm

I am not talking about now, I am talking about years ago. Now there are plenty of international corporations and companies with branches in Israel and imported products but growing up we never had McDonald's, hardly any imported products in the supermarket. Just about everyone drove a Subaru since they were one of the only car manufacturers who dared go against the stream. The embargo was only lifted in the 1990's but it had been in place for years.

Of course from the standpoint of the companies who adhered to the embargo it was understandable- would you rather not sell your products to 4 million Israelis or have hundreds of millions of Arabs worldwide boycott your product and watch your earning power drop precipitously?

vincayou
02-25-2006, 06:30 PM
Do UAE even recognize Israel as a nation? Unfortunately, I think it's something many arab nations (and Iran probably) have in common.

nobama
02-25-2006, 06:33 PM
I wonder how many of the players are aware of this blatent racism. I didn't know if you were from Israel or had an Israeli passport you couldn't enter UAE. I wonder how the rest of the world would react if the United States said no Palestinians are allowed in entry into the USA?

Rogiman
02-25-2006, 06:39 PM
I wonder how many of the players are aware of this blatent racism. I didn't know if you were from Israel or had an Israeli passport you couldn't enter UAE. I wonder how the rest of the world would react if the United States said no Palestinians are allowed in entry into the USA?
Practically in every Islamic country (except for Turkey, where law and religion are separate - probably the only sane country where the majority of people are muslims - and Egypt+Jordan, with which we've achieved peace) Israeli's entry is prohibited, and that Includes Pakistan and Bangladesh, for instance.

vincayou
02-25-2006, 06:45 PM
I wonder how many of the players are aware of this blatent racism. I didn't know if you were from Israel or had an Israeli passport you couldn't enter UAE. I wonder how the rest of the world would react if the United States said no Palestinians are allowed in entry into the USA?

In some countries (Cuba, North Korea, Iran), to obtain a visa for USA is almost impossible. All this is political.
Jews are not forbidden to go in UAE (but I wouldn't advise them to go there), only israelis are. Racism is an improper term in addition.

vincayou
02-25-2006, 06:47 PM
Practically in every Islamic country (except for Turkey, where law and religion are separate - probably the only sane country where the majority of people are muslims - and Egypt+Jordan, with which we've achieved peace) Israeli's entry is prohibited, and that Includes Pakistan and Bangladesh, for instance.

I would add Mali and Senegal to the sane countries. Both are democratic, what might be a hint, and I'm pretty sure that Israelis people are allowed there.

World Beater
02-25-2006, 06:55 PM
In some countries (Cuba, North Korea, Iran), to obtain a visa for USA is almost impossible. All this is political.
Jews are not forbidden to go in UAE (but I wouldn't advise them to go there), only israelis are. Racism is an improper term in addition.

very good point.

it is like china not acknowledging taiwan.

Unless you are an israeli, nobody can make blatant assumptions about one's heritage as being jewish, unless you tell them of course.

Socket
02-25-2006, 09:42 PM
I wonder how many of the players are aware of this blatent racism. I didn't know if you were from Israel or had an Israeli passport you couldn't enter UAE. I wonder how the rest of the world would react if the United States said no Palestinians are allowed in entry into the USA?
Also forbidden entry is anybody whose non-Israeli passport has Israeli visas or entry/exit stamps on it. Because visting Israel, even if you're a Christian, apparently gives you Jew-cooties. :rolleyes:

As for Arab countires admitting non-Israeli Jews, in 2004, Saudi Arabia started a website to promote tourism. Until the US formally complained, the website stated that "Jewish people" would not be granted visas.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=37323

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3493448.stm

nermo
02-25-2006, 11:24 PM
Posted by Rone
Why should anyone give a shit or do anything about a couple of insignificant tennis players who just so happen to have commited the attrocious crime of being born in a certain country?

No offense but,...
http://www.antiwar.com/ips/biedermann.php?articleid=5761

April 28, 2005
Israelis Resist the Arabs in Their Midst

by Ferry Biedermann JERUSALEM
- More than four years of violence between Israelis and Palestinians may have abated at least temporarily, but its effect is still being felt on relations between Jews and Arabs inside Israel. A string of recent polls, events and policy issues shows that both popular and official attitudes toward the country's Arab minority remain problematic.

From separate polls, it emerged that more than half of the Jewish population does not wish Arabs to live in their neighborhoods and that many Israelis would like to see the government encourage Arab citizens to leave the country. There has also been an upsurge of racism on football fields.

The Beitar Jerusalem football club was fined earlier this month after its fans shouted "death to the Arabs" among other slogans during a match against the largely Arab club Bnei Sakhnin. This comes in the wake of Bnei Sakhnin's captain Abbas Suan scoring the equalizer against Ireland in a World Cup qualifier. "Abbas Suan doesn't represent us," a Beitar fan had said earlier, echoing the view of most fans.


The demography issue and the link between Palestinians and Arab Israelis also emerges in the naturalization law that in 2004 specifically banned residents of the West Bank who married Israeli citizens from taking up residence in the country. Since this is almost exclusively aimed at Arab Israelis who marry Palestinians, the UN Human Rights Commission has condemned it as racist.

The Israeli daily Ha'aretz reported last month that a study carried out by the Ministry of Health that mapped the incidence of cancer throughout the country had left out all Arab towns.

The official responsible said this was due to budgetary constraints, because data in Arab municipalities was often not easily accessible, and there was no money to uncover the information.

Arab rights groups regard it as simple discrimination, because the state is equally responsible for both its Jewish and Arab citizens. They have appealed to the Supreme Court to order the Ministry to correct the study.

Yithak Reiter, a political scientist at Hebrew University in Jerusalem who specializes in the Arab minority, agrees that Arab towns and villages are underfunded compared to Jewish municipalities. They receive less for infrastructure, education, and health services.

This is partly because Arabs have traditionally been underrepresented in the bureaucracy that often disburses the funds, according to Reiter.


Posted by mirkaland
I wonder how many of the players are aware of this blatent racism.
May be Racism has many angles??
IMHO, sometimes it's even more significant than sports? sometimes it's linked to daily life.

Socket
02-25-2006, 11:41 PM
Nerno, anybody who comes from Egypt is not really in a position to complain about human rights in anybody else's country. Especially with respect to Jews:

During British rule, and under King Fuad, Egypt was friendly towards its Jewish population, although many of them were not allowed to claim Egyptian nationality as they were recent immigrants. Jews played important roles in the economy, and the Jewish population climbed to nearly 100,000 as Jews settled in Egypt while fleeing increasing persecution in Eastern Europe. One of the most famous Jews living in Egyptian was Yaqub Sanu', an Egyptian Jew of Italian heritage. Despite his Italian roots and his religion, was a patriotic Egyptian nationalist who advocated the removal of the British, and he edited the nationalist publication Abu Nazara 'Azra from exile. This was one of the first magazines written in colloquial Egyptian Arabic, and it consisted of mostly satire, poking fun at the British as well as the Monarchy which was a puppet of the British.

By the 1940s, the situation worsened, as a number of pogroms were launched against the Jewish population, incited by Amin al-Husayni, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, starting in 1942. Egypt became an increasingly hostile location for Jews as the partition of Palestine and the founding of Israel drew closer, and with rising nationalism that led to attacks against all "foreigners". In 1947, the Company Laws placed quotas on the number of Jews (and foreigners) allowed to work at any one company.

After the foundation of Israel in 1948, all Egyptian Jews became suspect, and the situation of the community became untenable. That year, bombings of Jewish areas killed 70 Jews and wounded nearly 200, while riots claimed many more lives. Operation Susannah and the Lavon Affair, in which some Egyptian Jews working as Israeli agents attacked Western targets exacerbated a general distrust of the indigenous Jewish communities by other Egyptians. In 1956 Egypt expelled almost 25,000 Egyptian Jews and confiscated their property as part of the Sinai campaign, and 1,000 more Jews were imprisoned. On November 23, 1956, a proclamation was issued that "all Jews are Zionists and enemies of the state," and promised that they would be soon expelled. Thousands of Jews left, forced to sign declarations that they were doing so voluntarily, and allowing their property to be confiscated. Foreign observers reported the taking of hostages. After 1967, more confiscations took place.

The result was the almost complete disappearance of the Jewish community in Egypt, only a hundred or so remain. Most Egyptian Jews fled to Israel (35,000), Brazil (15,000), France (10,000), the US (9,000) or Argentina (9,000). Today, anti-semitism is common in the media, and the Jewish population is minimal -- the last Jewish wedding took place in 1984.

nermo
02-25-2006, 11:51 PM
some other angels too:

Calling Palestinians "snakes" and "vipers" apparently passes for political correctness in Israel.
"In the old city of Jerusalem they're swarming like ants. They should go to hell - and the Messiah will speed them on their way," said Rabbi Ovadia Yossef during his a weekly sermon broadcast over Israeli army radio, according to Agence France Presse.
July 2001

A few years ago ,Former Transportation minister Avigdor Lieberman called for bombing the Aswn Dam in Egypt. (as far as i know i guess there were peace agreements at that date ?)

in 2002: He urged the israeli prime minister Sharon to carry out 'wholesale killings'" of palestinian civilians in order to force them to flee to Jordan and other neighbouring Arab countries.
"At 8: am we 'll bomb the commercial centers ;at non we'll bomb their gas stations and at two'oclock we 'll bomb the banks.. then keep the border crossing open."

*In September 2004, 5 palestinian players were prevented from travelling to the World Cup Qualifier against Uzbekistan. Players are regularly detained at checkpoints and prevented from getting to training.

nermo
02-25-2006, 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by LoveFifteen
The players should boycott Dubai if they refuse to let Isrealis play

Boycott was considered as barbarian act in the last few months.

Socket:Apart from ur reason, i wasn't the one complaining :confused: . Read again. Have u ever been to Sinai Since the 80s up till now ? Israeli tourists come regluarly and by the way i don't hate this though i am supposed to be a muslim :confused: .

Posted by Rogiman
Needless to say , we'd be glad to host any muslim/arabic sportsman , regardless of his nationality.
Never doubt that. Really. To each his own way. but it won't reflect the whole truth .

Peoples
02-26-2006, 12:05 AM
Pot, kettle :yawn:

nermo
02-26-2006, 12:09 AM
Posted by Dirk
We should have never let China into our economy to begin with but that is because we had Nixon and not Reagan now we have to deal with China as a powerful enemy.
Posted by Dirk
Of course we know why they are wealthier too, because of the oil they sell. That is not entirely the reason but it does help them greatly. I wish we could send them all of our watermelon enviromentalists to bitch about oil drilling over there so we could actually DRILL HERE!!!

Perfect logic.!!

nermo
02-26-2006, 12:24 AM
Know what ? inspite of all this crap that takes place here and there. Inspite some refuse to see/announce the whole view and only care to concentrate on what they want to see,
I still believe dignified Peace is the truth that lives no matter how long it would take, and no matter which angle we see and which we refuse to see.

but may be its my hallucinations?? :scratch:


posted by Universe man
With the volatility in the region right now, I'd think there'd be some security risks for player safety etc, I'm surprised there's no talk about it especially since U.A.E. is on the border of the gulf coast. Are my concerns unwarranted? any opinions?
The Dubai tourney for women ended today...i guess no bombings were made.
I don't think anything is far from happening, So May be men tourney taking place without bombings would occur.

I hope so INSHALLAH.

its.like.that
02-26-2006, 12:29 AM
You can't claim their lives have become worse though, since they weren't that good in the first place.

If anything, now they at least have hope that things can get better - that, of course, if they're able to control their extremists.

One has to be quite blind to blame the US for the world's troubles - take one look at the new islamic Europe and tell me who the modern world's real enemy is.

Everything is relative, and again, who are you, or anybody else for that matter, to decide how people should live?

I wouldn't expect anything different coming from you, but you're the one who needs to view this matter from a different perspective.

You can go on singing the United States' praises, while they continue to promote needless bloodshed and incite hatred around the world. But this is for the greater good, isn't it...

mandoura
02-26-2006, 08:48 AM
that might be true for the men.
Women in those countries, however, are often not allowed to issue a driving license or take to high studies.

As far as I know, I have a driving license and an MA (give up on my PhD, damn, it could have come handy now). :p

No, seriously, Rogiman, you should use some countries instead of often.

If my son's tennis allow him to play internationally, I will make sure to hold you to your word and pay you a visit. I will either stay with you or with Ron, whether you like it or not. Should you decide to visit Egypt, I would love to have you as my guest. :)

As for the issues this thread turned to, I am not really going to discuss them. There are too many points involved without enough relevant information and opinions are very selectively made/provided by everyone.

I would, however, like to make some points clear, imho:

- The Israeli-Palestinian issue is political. Both sides have done terrible things and both sides were victims of terrible things. It has in no way, shape or form anything to do with security risks in the Dubai tournament. Ditto for the war in Iraq and the ports deal.

- Israeli players should not be banned from attending sport events in any country, specially if the country in question is, in public or otherwise, having trade deals and political negotiations with Israel. It's so hypocritical.

- When money is involved, no one will boycott anything for any one.

- The pot-kettle argument is so cliché and overused. In logic studies, it is called a fallacy, the "who-are-you-to-talk" fallacy, i.e. I am fat so I am not allowed to call someone fat. I come from Egypt so I am not allowed to criticise human rights. Who told you I am not criticising Egypt as well for the lack of human rights?

- The Dubai tournament is one of the very few that offers equal prize money for both men and women, unlike Wimbledon for example. So how do they discriminate against women?

- I am a Muslim, Middle-Eastern woman. I AM NOT OPPRESSED, I AM NOT ABUSED, AND I AM NOT SUBDUED.

And last but not least, hopefully, nothing will happen in the Dubai Tournament except great tennis.

RonE
02-26-2006, 08:59 AM
No offense but,...
http://www.antiwar.com/ips/biedermann.php?articleid=5761





May be Racism has many angles??
IMHO, sometimes it's even more significant than sports? sometimes it's linked to daily life.

Of course racism has many angles. No one is perfect, we are all human and one of the traits of humans is racism. It's in-built and exists in every culture to one degree or another.

But while it is true that the state of Israeli Arabs is far from ideal, ask them privately would they rather live in Israel or any other country in the region and they will tell you their lives in Israel, even as they are, are still better than they would be in any neighbouring country.

You know who the majority of people illegally entering the country from our neighbours are? No, they are not terrorists or linked with any organisation- they are simply trying to come to Israel so that they can live and work and have a better life. I think that says something.

And sure, we have our own extremists- Ovadia Yossef and Lieberman are well known for their views. But we also have people like Yossi Beilin and Zehava Gal'on who are actively fighting to improve Israeli Arabs status. No offense, but show me one other country in the region that has groups actively doing things to improve that country's minorities standard of life.

RonE
02-26-2006, 09:07 AM
And as a case in point, since Nermo brought the subject up, it is also interesting to examine how Palestinians are treated in other Arab countries:
================================================== ========

http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/israel/return/arab-rtr.htm

Treatment and Rights in Arab Host States

The status of Palestinian exiles in Arab host states has had a fraught history since 1948, and in the region today their lives differ dramatically depending on their place of residence. In Jordan, for example, most of the 1.5 million Palestinians have citizenship and are well integrated socially and economically, although some 278,678 are still living in camps. Unlike Jordan, Syria has maintained the stateless status of its Palestinians but has afforded them the same economic and social rights enjoyed by Syrian citizens. According to a 1956 law, Palestinians are treated as if they are Syrians "in all matters pertaining to...the rights of employment, work, commerce, and national obligations". As a consequence, Palestinians in Syria do not suffer from massive unemployment or underemployment, and only about 111,208 refugees live in camps. At the same time Palestinians, like Syrian citizens, remain under a powerful state system in which basic civil and political rights -- such as freedom of expression and association -- are tightly controlled, and a state of emergency, in force since 1963, grants broad, unchecked powers to a vast security apparatus. In Lebanon, in sharp contrast, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are stateless and over half live in overcrowded camps. The right to work is severely restricted, and massive poverty has become the norm. The situation of the Palestinians in Lebanon deteriorated steadily in the wake of the expulsion of PLO guerrillas following the 1982 Israeli invasion. By some accounts, of the 375,218 Palestinians registered as refugees with UNRWA in Lebanon, only some 200,000 remain; others have fled from the inhospitable conditions that successive Lebanese governments have sustained over the last two decades.(1)

Initially the response of host Arab states to the incoming Palestinian refugees was to offer them refuge on the assumption that it would be temporary. When it became obvious that the problem would be protracted, the policies of Arab states toward the refugees changed, and the initial sympathy was coupled with an insistence on Israel's ultimate responsibility for them. As a result most Arab governments strongly opposed resettlement and naturalization of the refugees. Instead, they adopted policies and procedures aimed at preserving the Palestinian identity of the individuals and their status as refugees.

Egypt is the only Arab host country that is a state party to the 1951 Convention Relative to the Status of Refugees. However, in September 1965 the council of foreign ministers of the League of Arab States formally acknowledged certain rights for Palestinians by signing the Protocol for the Treatment of Palestinians in Arab States, known as the Casablanca Protocol. This brief document called upon member states to "take the necessary measures" to guarantee to Palestinians full residency rights, freedom of movement within and among Arab countries, and the right to work on a par with citizens.

But the protocol's good intentions clashed with subsequent developments on the ground. UNHCR notes that, "as the Palestinian nationalist movement came into conflict with the governments of the Arab states, the legal status of the Palestinians diminished. As a result, few Palestinians in the Arab world now enjoy a secure right to remain in their country of residence."(2)

For example, as the Palestinian liberation movement gained momentum, this created political and sovereignty tensions within some host countries. This was further exacerbated by attacks on Israel and Israeli citizens carried out by Palestinian guerrillas from the territory of those host countries which then bore the brunt of reprisals from Israel - often resulting in deaths and injuries to the local civilian population. In Jordan, Palestinian fighters clashed several times with the Jordanian army and were finally expelled in 1971. In Lebanon, they became embroiled in a civil war, and their attacks on Israel lead to an Israeli invasion in 1982 and their expulsion from Lebanon.

In addition, as Abbas Shiblak, founder of the Palestinian Diaspora and Refugee Centre (Shaml) points out, in the host countries "Palestinian affairs are governed by ministerial decrees or administrative orders, which allow differing interpretations and abuses of power and can easily be reversed in response to changing political conditions." (3)

In Egypt, for example, Palestinians experienced worsening treatment after the signing of the peace treaty with Israel in 1978. According to one study, Palestinian students were, until 1978, "treated like the Egyptians who received free education in schools, universities and institutes."(4) Then the government gradually began to impose hard currency tuition fees for Palestinians, treating them as foreigners, and "banned Palestinian students from joining colleges of medicine, pharmacy, economics, political science, and journalism."(5) In addition, presidential decrees in July 1978 (No. 47 and 48) "canceled earlier decisions which treated the Palestinians like the Egyptians. The Ministry of Human Resources also prohibited the employment of foreigners including Palestinians in trade, particularly imports and exports, except those who were married to Egyptians for more than five years."(6)

More recent and extreme examples of punitive treatment of Palestinians as a byproduct of regional politics include Kuwait's expulsion of tens of thousands of long-term residents in the wake of the 1991 Gulf war (leaving the Gazans among them who carried Egyptian travel documents with nowhere to go because the Egyptian government denied them entry), and the Libyan government's move in 1995 to demonstrate its displeasure with Arafat's peace negotiations with Israel by not renewing the one-year residency visas of some 30,000 Palestinians and beginning summary deportations.

Egypt again provides an illustration of the restrictions on freedom of movement of resident Palestinians. Under Law No. 28 of 1960, Palestinians were entitled to receive Egyptian travel documents, but these documents "did not grant the bearer the right to enter Egypt unless a visa is obtained from the Egyptian consulates abroad beforehand."(7) Thus, holders of such documents who were born in Egypt or who have lived there for most of their lives have no automatic right to stay in or reenter the country, but must renew their visas every six months to three years. Human Rights Watch is aware of cases of Palestinians born in Egypt who have been trapped abroad because Egyptian consulates denied their entry visa requests in summary fashion, without providing reasons. Advocates of Palestinian refugees' rights cite these and other examples to underscore the fragility of the refugees' residency in host countries, and the pressing need for a more secure legal status that offers firm guarantees of freedom of movement.

Lebanon provides the clearest example of a host state's denial of rights, use of refugees as political pawns, and illegal discrimination. In Lebanon, many Palestinians are preoccupied with basic survival, overwhelmed by poor physical conditions in the refugee camps, pervasive poverty, high unemployment and underemployment, and inadequate medical services. Successive Lebanese governments have consistently opposed the permanent resettlement of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, and state policies reflect this stance, denying virtually all social and economic rights. In addition, the state has prohibited the expansion of existing refugee camps, which contributes to overcrowding and illegal and unsafe building of additional stories on existing structures.

One of the most frequently heard complaints from Palestinians in Lebanon concerns restrictions on the right to work. Palestinians, like other foreigners, must obtain annual work permits from the labor ministry in order to be employed legally. Possession of a work permit affords foreign workers protection under Lebanon's labor law with respect to workers rights and benefits. However, these permits are extremely difficult for Palestinians to obtain: permits are issued annually to Palestinians by the hundreds while for other foreign workers in Lebanon they are issued by the thousands. (Hundreds of thousands of Syrian workers in Lebanon, in contrast, require no work permits.) The difficulty in obtaining work permits forces many Palestinians into the underground economy and leaves others open to exploitation by private employers. For example, a Palestinian teacher with fourteen years' experience and a university degree from Egypt told Human Rights Watch that Palestinians can obtain teaching jobs in private schools in Lebanon without a work permit, but they earn salaries significantly lower than their Lebanese counterparts and have no job security or worker benefits. The situation of women workers is particularly difficult. Palestinian women who work in the garment industry in Beirut and Sidon, for example, are paid below the minimum wage and earn half the salary of Lebanese citizens. Because the Palestinians do not have work permits, they do not receive the benefits provided to Lebanese employees, including medical insurance.

In addition, various legal barriers prohibit Palestinians from practicing in Lebanon as doctors, pharmacists, engineers, lawyers or journalists. Laws, decrees, and regulations of professional associations specify that members must hold Lebanese nationality for at least ten years or that there must be reciprocity of treatment for Lebanese professionals in the country of citizenship of the foreign professional applying to practice in Lebanon. For example, the journalists' syndicate restricts membership to those who have been Lebanese citizens for at least ten years, as does the bar association. Medical, pharmacy, and engineering associations in Lebanon all have regulations that require reciprocal treatment as conditions for membership, which by definition excludes Palestinians who are stateless. These rules open the door for exploitation of some Palestinian professionals, such as engineers, who have described to Human Rights Watch how they have obtained "illegal" jobs at Lebanese firms but have no benefits and cannot sign official documents for work that they have supervised.

mandoura
02-26-2006, 10:04 AM
Of course racism has many angles. No one is perfect, we are all human and one of the traits of humans is racism. It's in-built and exists in every culture to one degree or another.

But while it is true that the state of Israeli Arabs is far from ideal, ask them privately would they rather live in Israel or any other country in the region and they will tell you their lives in Israel, even as they are, are still better than they would be in any neighbouring country.

You know who the majority of people illegally entering the country from our neighbours are? No, they are not terrorists or linked with any organisation- they are simply trying to come to Israel so that they can live and work and have a better life. I think that says something.

And sure, we have our own extremists- Ovadia Yossef and Lieberman are well known for their views. But we also have people like Yossi Beilin and Zehava Gal'on who are actively fighting to improve Israeli Arabs status. No offense, but show me one other country in the region that has groups actively doing things to improve that country's minorities standard of life.

I am completely with you on this Ron. :)

As for your next post, thank you for posting it. That's why I posted earlier I am not going to discuss a lot of points made in this thread because of lack of relevant information or opinions being made selectively.

RonE
02-26-2006, 10:40 AM
I am completely with you on this Ron. :)

As for your next post, thank you for posting it. That's why I posted earlier I am not going to discuss a lot of points made in this thread because of lack of relevant information or opinions being made selectively.

Yes it is a very sensitive issue all round and emotions tend to flare up. Somehow inadvertadly this thread has become a political discussion and I promised myself when I joined MTF that I would refrain from discussing these issues- oh well, that just re-inforces my previous point about no one being perfect :)

Perhaps the mods can move this thread to non-tennis.

Peoples
02-26-2006, 10:48 AM
- I am a Muslim, Middle-Eastern woman. I AM NOT OPPRESSED, I AM NOT ABUSED, AND I AM NOT SUBDUED.
Did the scary guys wearing towels on their heads force you to write this? :scared: :scared:

nermo
02-26-2006, 10:50 AM
Posted by Rone
Of course racism has many angles. No one is perfect, we are all human and one of the traits of humans is racism. It's in-built and exists in every culture.
AGREE. But This Fact wasn't mentioned once for- four pages- thread long.


Posted by Rone
But while it is true that the state of Israeli Arabs is far from ideal, ask them privately would they rather live in Israel or any other country in the region and they will tell you their lives in Israel, even as they are, are still better than they would be in any neighbouring country.
I guess it's one fact people from the whole world would love to live a country with a good economical level, close to their origins.
The same apply to many successful stories of palestinians in Emirates,Saudi Arabia, and other gulf countries.

Posted by Rone
No offense, but show me one other country in the region that has groups actively doing things to improve that country's minorities standard of life.
I 'd love to. Web won't be that helpful . Actively doing things deserves a visit.

Posted by Rone
it is also interesting to examine how Palestinians are treated in other Arab countries:
Refugees statistics of unemployment,poor conditions , are just good. It would be nice comparing unemployment ,poor conditions for civilians in the same countries. It would give a better picture.

Again, if u're willing to ask these refugees, They 're more willing to get the palestinian nationality other than any other arabic nationality. They 're palestinians .So perhaps they should have the right to return there?

Again old events are good, updated events are good too. Palestinians don't pay education fees at Egyptian universities. updated and witnessed.

Current Politics is Politics, all full of business and benefits. It's as simple as that.
Money and benefits have louder voices than religion, race and ethics.u can add other factors.

Posted by mandoura
I come from Egypt so I am not allowed to criticise human rights.Who told you I am not criticising Egypt as well for the lack of human rights?

I don't think this is related to democracy ? but who i am to talk.

posted by mandoura
The Dubai tournament is one of the very few that offers equal prize money for both men and women, unlike Wimbledon for example. So how do they discriminate against women?

- I am a Muslim, Middle-Eastern woman. I AM NOT OPPRESSED, I AM NOT ABUSED, AND I AM NOT SUBDUED.

And last but not least, hopefully, nothing will happen in the Dubai Tournament except great tennis.
Ditto.

mandoura
02-26-2006, 10:54 AM
Did the scary guys wearing towels on their heads force you to write this? :scared: :scared:

Is it that obvious ??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

:lol: