The battle of the young guns [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The battle of the young guns

brit_ace_becca
02-20-2006, 06:52 PM
:wavey: Hi everyone, not posted on here before. I'm just wondering who you guys think will be the highest ranked young player by the end of the year out of Murray, Gasquet, Baghdatis, Berdych, Monfils and Djokovic? Been inspired by Murray's win last night to ask this. I think Gasquet will be top ten if he can get through this bad patch he's having at the moment. Then i think Baghdatis, Berdych and Murray will be somewhere between 10 and 20. Not too sure about Monfils and Djokovic. Any thoughts?

NATAS81
02-20-2006, 06:57 PM
Baghdatis, Berdych, Gasquet, Murray, Monfils, Djokovic

ezekiel
02-20-2006, 07:00 PM
Baghdatis is the most impressive so far and he beat 3 top 5 players and gave Roger a scare before failing physically. Andy M has been impressive lately but he beat 2 slumping former slam champs. The rest are so and so . The worst is Gasquet and I think he is getting exposed every time

brit_ace_becca
02-20-2006, 07:04 PM
really, gasquet is the worst? what do you think of monfils and djokovik? i haven't been able to see much of their careers so far. i really hope baghdatis can build from the fab aussie open result and not just crumble away. didn't he get to the fourth round last year but then not achieve much for the rest of the year (or am i thinking of someone else)?

NATAS81
02-20-2006, 07:08 PM
Yeah, Gasquet like Roddick is losing to anybody right now.

Monfils was right in that match in the third set with Grosjean.

Djokovic - haven't seen or followed much of him - the jury is out

Marcos was injured most of last year so he couldn't follow up on last year's AO.

brit_ace_becca
02-20-2006, 07:13 PM
oh right, it was a shame baghdatis was injured, lets hope he makes the most of this year! hadn't seen that much of him before the ao this year but he seems to have a great game and a great personality to match...really pushed federer in the final! i reckon roddick will be out of the top 10 pretty soon...he seems to be very one-dimensional to me

ezekiel
02-20-2006, 07:25 PM
Gasquet is slow and mentally weak. That is unforgiveable in today's athletic game. Djokovic will be a player , he has a complete game but needs more experience to build easier points. Monfils is just an athlete that lacks fundamentals. He is a poor man Roddick that stays way behind the baseline. You are right about Baghdatis though, he needs to prove himself much more and outside of Australia

stebs
02-20-2006, 07:43 PM
:wavey: Hi everyone, not posted on here before. I'm just wondering who you guys think will be the highest ranked young player by the end of the year out of Murray, Gasquet, Baghdatis, Berdych, Monfils and Djokovic? Been inspired by Murray's win last night to ask this. I think Gasquet will be top ten if he can get through this bad patch he's having at the moment. Then i think Baghdatis, Berdych and Murray will be somewhere between 10 and 20. Not too sure about Monfils and Djokovic. Any thoughts?

I think Gasquet has the most talent, if he plays at the top of his game he can give anyone including Federer a real match. We all saw that when he beat Roger last year. His mindset is a real stumbling block, I just don't get the feeling he cares about losing most of the time. It is great to watch him but also painful to support him. He has, probably, the best backhand in tennis so the weapon is there, he maybe needs to make his serve more of a weapon. I think he is clearly a future slam winner.

Baghdatis is maybe the next most talented, I think he showed everyone what he could do at the AO so there isn't much to say, I don't think he will become a top player for a while yet but I think if he stays all there mentally he can get some huge wins this year. Again, brilliant to watch but we haven't seen enough of him to know if AO was just a superhot streak or if we are going to have to get used to that ripping forehand. He will be a great character for years to come I hope, he also has a great five set recford so good in slams.

Murray is very impressive, he is a real all round player, big serve, big forehand, big backhand, can hit a volley and he has a good mindset. He needs to work on his second serve alot because it lets him down. I think his ability to change pace is under-rated and we could be seeing alot of slow backhands followed by whipped forehands over the years. I think he is not as naturally talented as the two above but he isn't as old or developed and we will see where his game goes in the next couple of years. Not a real slam challenger for now but still a big threat to most when he is on his game.

Berdych is a good player and I think he will give people a good game but when I see him I don't think he is destined for the very top. He has great strokes but not quite as good as Gasquet or Baggy and he, like Gasquet, has a very fragile mentality. If he's on form he is a threat to anyone but so far we haven't seen much consistency, that'll have to improve if his ranking is going to rise much higher. He can be great as we saw last year when he won a TMS but he hasn't been brilliant in slams yet, we should see him do well at a slam soon I expect.

Monfils is a great player, I have seen him quite a bit and he has really strong defensive game and a really strong offensive game, he is fairly similar to Murray in many ways but he is stronger and faster, not as good at changing pace but he can hit harder. He also has a great tendancy to ace his way out of trouble when he needs to. A very poor showing at the AO but a final in Doha under his belt where he gave Federer a decent workout. He can be a big challenge for anyone in a slam but has to work on changing it up abit.

Djokovic is a good player and I think he will be winning some major matches soon, He took Ljubicic to three tight sets in Zagreb and had a notable run in the US Open last year where he beat Monfils and Ancic. He, like Baghdatis, has had a rough ride with injuries and I think we have yet to see what this boy can really do. I expect him to get some more matches under his belt and then maybe we can see how good a player he really can be. He has already got good experience of winning and losing five setters so going the distance in a slam should be no problem for him.



That's my overview of the players, now I'll give a rough guess as to where I see them ending the year assuming none of them have any major injuries.

Gasquet: Clearly has all the talent but his mind will prevent him becoming a top player just yet, expect to see him around 10-15 or, if he has a hot streak during a slam, around 6-10.

Baghdatis: Great shotmaker, has huge hype to live up to but he has a great mind. Very few points to defend for most of the year and already a slam finalist, expect to see him around 8-13.

Murray: Great talent, under huge media pressure and nnot yet fully developed. Shown he can win big matches. Expect to see him a bit lower down, maybe around 15-25 depending on good or bad draws.

Berdych: Can be brilliant but can be dreadful, if he can get some consistency expect to see him jostling around the 13-18 area but if he can't get it sorted then expect a 20-25 position.

Monfils: Huge shots and very hard to put shots away against him. He can beat most 10-20 players if he plays well but probably not ready for top 10 just yet. Expect a position around 15-20 but could be near the top 10.

Djokovic: Not proved himself as much as the others yet but a great talent. Not so much pressure on him, expect him to slide into the top 30 at the very least and could be as high as 20.



This is only if these guys play fairly well and stay injury free which is by no means a gauruntee.

brit_ace_becca
02-20-2006, 07:45 PM
i was in the crowd for each of gasquet's matches at the Nottingham Open last year where he won his first (and only!) title and he looked pretty good then. what about when he beat federer that time? has he just gone off the boil this year or do you think he was never as good as people made him out to be? :scratch:

stebs
02-20-2006, 07:48 PM
i was in the crowd for each of gasquet's matches at the Nottingham Open last year where he won his first (and only!) title and he looked pretty good then. what about when he beat federer that time? has he just gone off the boil this year or do you think he was never as good as people made him out to be? :scratch:

As far as I'm concerned he is the most talented of the youngsters (aside from Nadal) but he is on a slump at the moment.

brit_ace_becca
02-20-2006, 07:48 PM
thanks stebs, that's a really good breakdown of what they're all capable of

Bagelicious
02-20-2006, 08:16 PM
Murray: Great talent, under huge media pressure and nnot yet fully developed. Shown he can win big matches. Expect to see him a bit lower down, maybe around 15-25 depending on good or bad draws.


Stebs, I really like your overview - it's unbiased and sounds well thought out. I especially see the huge pressure getting to Murray at some point in his career, he would have to be incredibly mentally strong and mature for it not to.

As for the poster bashing on Gasquet, I'm not sure that they watched any of his matches from last year or if they understand the meaning of the word slump. As such a young player, he had a pretty impressive run last year and has time to go through slumps now before he matures as a player.

brit_ace_becca
02-20-2006, 08:26 PM
hi kajonie, i agree the pressure will inevitably get to murray at some point, although he seems quite level-headed at the moment. maybe this is why he does well in the US without the british media hounding him (the worst in the world IMO). i think maybe gasquet is still feeling last year and may take a while to settle down this year, as with murray and the others maybe we can't expect so much from him yet.

Marat Safinator
02-20-2006, 08:59 PM
1. baghdatis - potential one of the best ever.
= Nadal
2. Berdych

3. gasquet

4. Djokovic

5. Monfils

6. Murray - over rated mouth opener

Marat Safinator
02-20-2006, 09:00 PM
really, gasquet is the worst? what do you think of monfils and djokovik? i haven't been able to see much of their careers so far. i really hope baghdatis can build from the fab aussie open result and not just crumble away. didn't he get to the fourth round last year but then not achieve much for the rest of the year (or am i thinking of someone else)?

he lost to federer in 05 in 4rth i think yea

brit_ace_becca
02-20-2006, 09:03 PM
hi safinator, marat is one of my favourites! hope he comes back soon!!!

stebs
02-20-2006, 09:36 PM
6. Murray - over rated mouth opener

Any incite as to why you think this?? He has proved himself worthy of his hype as a young talent on several occasions.

silverwhite
02-21-2006, 02:35 AM
The worst is Gasquet and I think he is getting exposed every time

He is clearly washed-up!

robrulz5
02-21-2006, 02:43 AM
I think Monfils will be the best out of the lot of them. He has the goods.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
02-21-2006, 01:35 PM
Baghdatis 10-15
Murray 15-20
Gasquet 20-30
Berdych 30-35
Monfils 30-40
Djokovic 50-70

revolution
02-21-2006, 01:37 PM
You can tell Marat Safinator has issues if he names Jamie Murray among his most disliked players OF ALL TIME.

prima donna
02-21-2006, 01:37 PM
Why is Djokovic's name in this discussion ? What has he done ? There are plenty of young players on tour that aren't mentioned here.

I've failed to understand why he's treated any differently throughout this particular instance, possibly someone could inform me.

All that I see is a mediocre game, antics and a player that will probably end up playing Doubles at age 35 to earn a living.

revolution
02-21-2006, 01:38 PM
Gasquet, Murray, Berdych- top 10
Monfils top 20
Djokovic top 20

revolution
02-21-2006, 01:41 PM
Why is Djokovic's name in this discussion ? What has he done ? There are plenty of young players on tour that aren't mentioned here.

I've failed to understand why he's treated any differently throughout this particular instance, possibly someone could inform me.

All that I see is a mediocre game, antics and a player that will probably end up playing Doubles at age 35 to earn a living.


Seppi, Wawrinka, Cilic to name just three....

ClaycourtaZzZz.
02-21-2006, 01:41 PM
Gasquet, Murray, Berdych- top 10
Monfils top 20
Djokovic top 20
:confused: :confused: :confused:

revolution
02-21-2006, 01:42 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused:

I seen some of his match with Ljubicic and some last year and he looked like he has great potential, just if he utilises it the way he can do I think top 20 is his highest.

I think Cilic and Del Potro may eclipse him though.....

ClaycourtaZzZz.
02-21-2006, 01:44 PM
Well, I don't know why he is even ranked 70 in the world.:confused:
I can remember how he was the "real-deal" last year:rolls: And everyone agreed that he was better than Murray, check now...:rolls: I knew it from the begin.

Peoples
02-21-2006, 01:47 PM
Why is Djokovic's name in this discussion ? What has he done ? There are plenty of young players on tour that aren't mentioned here.

I've failed to understand why he's treated any differently throughout this particular instance, possibly someone could inform me.

All that I see is a mediocre game, antics and a player that will probably end up playing Doubles at age 35 to earn a living.
No it's simply a young Nikolay Davydenko. Future world number 5 who plays a grand slam wearing a simple black shirt and AO cap as nobody would sponsor him.

revolution
02-21-2006, 01:47 PM
Time for a username change back? :p

ClaycourtaZzZz.
02-21-2006, 01:48 PM
lol, both cheap fuckers:)

ClaycourtaZzZz.
02-21-2006, 01:48 PM
Time for a username change back? :p
ya, later on :cool:

Liverpool4ever
03-31-2006, 09:01 AM
I know this is really a year too early, but I was thinking of how Federer's generation compares to that of Nadal's. After all everyone is always talking about the huge potential of Berdych, Monfilis, Gasquet, Murray, Djokovic and Baghdatis. Well I was wondering how they compared to Hewitt, Federer, Safin, Ferrero, Roddick and Nalbandian. Apart from Nadal, who has achieved far more more than any teenager since Wilander/Becker the new generation are virtually all behind. Baghdatis is the only one to do anything of note at a slam and Berdych is the only one to win a master series title. Compare that to Safin and Hewitt, and it's obvious that they come up short, but they also come up short when compared to Federer, Ferrero and Roddick. So unless the new generation achieve an awful lot in the next year their succes will be no where near that of the past one. So are the new generation simply late bloomers, are they playing in a stronger era than the previous one or are they simply not as talented?

TheMightyFed
03-31-2006, 09:43 AM
So are the new generation simply late bloomers, are they playing in a stronger era than the previous one or are they simply not as talented?
With Fed around, this is a f*cking strong era not to be a late bloomer at least in slams and MS. In that regard, Nadal is lucky to be lefty, whatever other qualities he has.

vincayou
03-31-2006, 11:58 AM
I know this is really a year too early, but I was thinking of how Federer's generation compares to that of Nadal's. After all everyone is always talking about the huge potential of Berdych, Monfilis, Gasquet, Murray, Djokovic and Baghdatis. Well I was wondering how they compared to Hewitt, Federer, Safin, Ferrero, Roddick and Nalbandian. Apart from Nadal, who has achieved far more more than any teenager since Wilander/Becker the new generation are virtually all behind. Baghdatis is the only one to do anything of note at a slam and Berdych is the only one to win a master series title. Compare that to Safin and Hewitt, and it's obvious that they come up short, but they also come up short when compared to Federer, Ferrero and Roddick. So unless the new generation achieve an awful lot in the next year their succes will be no where near that of the past one. So are the new generation simply late bloomers, are they playing in a stronger era than the previous one or are they simply not as talented?

:confused: Sorry but apart from Hewitt who had success very early, they are all well in time. Murray and Djokovic are 18, Gasquet and Monfils 19. Safin won his first slam at 20, Federer at 22 and Ferrero 23 if I recall correctly.
Regarding slam victories, they are still young. And for the ranking, I just follow Gasquet, but he's where Federer and Roddick were at his age, and well above Ferrero and Safin.

See the graph here : http://www.tennis28.com/charts/Nadal_Gasquet_vs_NB.GIF

zimzim
03-31-2006, 12:07 PM
See the graph here : http://www.tennis28.com/charts/Nadal_Gasquet_vs_NB.GIF
wow! Vincayou, did you plot this graph by yourself? It's simply amazing!

TheMightyFed
03-31-2006, 12:27 PM
:confused: Sorry but apart from Hewitt who had success very early, they are all well in time. Murray and Djokovic are 18, Gasquet and Monfils 19. Safin won his first slam at 20, Federer at 22 and Ferrero 23 if I recall correctly.
Regarding slam victories, they are still young. And for the ranking, I just follow Gasquet, but he's where Federer and Roddick were at his age, and well above Ferrero and Safin.

See the graph here : http://www.tennis28.com/charts/Nadal_Gasquet_vs_NB.GIF
However Gasquet's graph is on for a good dive if he doesn't back up his beautiful spring summer 05... smells pretty bad unfortunately...

Allez
03-31-2006, 12:59 PM
During the Sampras, Agassi, Chang, Becker years, who were the equivalent of the Gasquets, Murrays, Berdyches, Monfils' etc ? Whatever happened to THAT generation ? The Hewitts and Safins only came along towards the end of Sampras' generation. Who were the LOST generation between Sampras and Rogi? . I hope the current young guys don't suffer a similar fate...

belco
03-31-2006, 01:01 PM
1. Baghdatis
2. Murray
3. Djokovic

kills me to rank Djokovic 3rd :D but im telling myself.. think honestly :D

Liverpool4ever
03-31-2006, 01:10 PM
Sorry but apart from Hewitt who had success very early, they are all well in time. Murray and Djokovic are 18, Gasquet and Monfils 19. Safin won his first slam at 20, Federer at 22 and Ferrero 23 if I recall correctly.
Regarding slam victories, they are still young. And for the ranking, I just follow Gasquet, but he's where Federer and Roddick were at his age, and well above Ferrero and Safin.


Yes but at the same age as Gasquet, Federer had already made two slam quarter finals back to back and Safin had won a master series. I don't think it's a stretch there for to put Gasquet behind those two. Not to mention that Gasquet is the second most succesful youngster. When we compare Berdych and Baghdatis to what the past generation had done then its even worse. Federer before he reached 21 had two slam quarter finals, a master series title and another master series final. Roddick had two master series titles, two slam semi finals and a slam quarter final. Ferrero is the worst out of the bunch with just one slam semi final. Nalbandian had gotten to a slam final and one semi final. I think everyone knows what Hewitt and Safin had done before they were 21.

Now, though Gasquet had a better ranking I think you can definately make a point that Federer had shown more promise and achieved at the big tournaments. Monfilis at this time does not yet even compare. Djokovic and Murray are a bit too young and that's why I said this should really be done in a year's time. However, Berdych and Baghdatis really need to start posting some great results to try and much the pace the others set. I think it will be very interesting to see what they achieve before they hit 21.

TheMightyFed
03-31-2006, 01:24 PM
However, Berdych and Baghdatis really need to start posting some great results to try and much the pace the others set.
I prefer Baghdatis to do a couple of slam finals and get consistency in late stage of big tournies than big victories and then a burn out like Ferrero. I think that Berdych has the purest and most dangerous game, he's alreay done some damage, he needs some consistency. French guys need a bit of air, the French federation is too present, which is great help, but they are like kids really.

vincayou
03-31-2006, 01:30 PM
Yes but at the same age as Gasquet, Federer had already made two slam quarter finals back to back and Safin had won a master series. I don't think it's a stretch there for to put Gasquet behind those two. Not to mention that Gasquet is the second most succesful youngster. When we compare Berdych and Baghdatis to what the past generation had done then its even worse. Federer before he reached 21 had two slam quarter finals, a master series title and another master series final. Roddick had two master series titles, two slam semi finals and a slam quarter final. Ferrero is the worst out of the bunch with just one slam semi final. Nalbandian had gotten to a slam final and one semi final. I think everyone knows what Hewitt and Safin had done before they were 21.

Now, though Gasquet had a better ranking I think you can definately make a point that Federer had shown more promise and achieved at the big tournaments. Monfilis at this time does not yet even compare. Djokovic and Murray are a bit too young and that's why I said this should really be done in a year's time. However, Berdych and Baghdatis really need to start posting some great results to try and much the pace the others set. I think it will be very interesting to see what they achieve before they hit 21.

But the opposition wasn't exactly the same. Fed and Co. had to face stars in their late 20s (Sampras, Agassi, Rafter, etc...) while these ones are now competing with players at their peak (Fed, Roddick, Nalbandian) not to mention Nadal. There weren't 2 such dominant players when Fed and Roddick were 20. Easier to get a masters series title in these conditions (or a good slam showing). The only master serie where Fed and Nadal weren't playing last year was won by Berdych.
Berdych has a masters serie title, Baghdatis a slam final, that's not too bad.

On ranking, Monfils and Murray are on par with Roddick and Federer at the same age.

vincayou
03-31-2006, 01:32 PM
However Gasquet's graph is on for a good dive if he doesn't back up his beautiful spring summer 05... smells pretty bad unfortunately...

His graph is already a rollercoaster. And this dive is due to his bad injury and the loss of momentum afterwards. Not too worrying, he'll start puting good results soon, he just need a bit of confidence to start the machine again.

vincayou
03-31-2006, 01:34 PM
wow! Vincayou, did you plot this graph by yourself? It's simply amazing!

No, it's from the tennis28.com site. Actually, there is as well a graph with all the young guns, but it's not as good, as it's chronological and not by age.

Allez
03-31-2006, 01:42 PM
No, it's from the tennis28.com site. Actually, there is as well a graph with all the young guns, but it's not as good, as it's chronological and not by age.

Thanks for that. I thought Borg had the record for the most consecutive Wimbledons, but I see one William Renshaw won it 6 times in a row way back when :eek: :eek: :eek: I wonder if that record will ever be broken :shrug:

Liverpool4ever
03-31-2006, 01:51 PM
I prefer Baghdatis to do a couple of slam finals and get consistency in late stage of big tournies than big victories and then a burn out like Ferrero. I think that Berdych has the purest and most dangerous game, he's alreay done some damage, he needs some consistency. French guys need a bit of air, the French federation is too present, which is great help, but they are like kids really.


Ferrero, though can be argued achieved the least out off the previous generation at a young age. Hence I think that's a poor comparison. I am not trying to say the new generation won't achieve great things, but I want to point out how well not only the Hewitt's were doing, but the Roddick's and Nalbandians as well.

But the opposition wasn't exactly the same. Fed and Co. had to face stars in their late 20s (Sampras, Agassi, Rafter, etc...) while these ones are now competing with players at their peak (Fed, Roddick, Nalbandian) not to mention Nadal. There weren't 2 such dominant players when Fed and Roddick were 20. Easier to get a masters series title in these conditions (or a good slam showing). The only master serie where Fed and Nadal weren't playing last year was won by Berdych.
Berdych has a masters serie title, Baghdatis a slam final, that's not too bad.


I agree with that to an extent, because Sampras' generation and to a smaller extent Federer's generation were helped by the underachievemnet of the likes of Rios, P'sis and to an extent Kuertan and Moya. Still as of now apart from Baghdatis the new generation have failed to get to Nadal and Federer at slams. There is no doubt the Berdych and Baghdatis have done well and I think they can both win slams in the future. I started this, because I remember reading that Gasquet was a far better as a teenager than Federer and I wanted to compare him and the other youngsters.

Another interesting point is that when Hewitt, Roddick, Ferrero and even Federer emerged they all had fairly weak backhands, whilst all of the young guns now have very good backhands.

PamV
03-31-2006, 01:59 PM
:confused: Sorry but apart from Hewitt who had success very early, they are all well in time. Murray and Djokovic are 18, Gasquet and Monfils 19. Safin won his first slam at 20, Federer at 22 and Ferrero 23 if I recall correctly.
Regarding slam victories, they are still young. And for the ranking, I just follow Gasquet, but he's where Federer and Roddick were at his age, and well above Ferrero and Safin.

See the graph here : http://www.tennis28.com/charts/Nadal_Gasquet_vs_NB.GIF

Can you add Sampras and Agassi to that chart ?

BIGMARAT
03-31-2006, 03:11 PM
Wait for Gasquet to be more mature and he's gonna kick all their asses.
Richard Gasquet is the most talented and ofcourse sexiest!!!!

zimzim
03-31-2006, 06:20 PM
Wait for Gasquet to be more mature and he's gonna kick all their asses.
Richard Gasquet is the most talented and ofcourse sexiest!!!! :yeah: Am so biased where Richie is concerned...I just love the kid :)

rofe
03-31-2006, 06:25 PM
I wonder if Fed's domination over the past 3 years has demoralized the young guns. If the ATP had been like the WTA with no clear #1, these young guns may have got their act together sooner.

BIGMARAT
03-31-2006, 08:35 PM
:yeah: Am so biased where Richie is concerned...I just love the kid :)

I want that kid!!! you know what i mean, lol