The greatest players ALMOST never become coaches... why ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The greatest players ALMOST never become coaches... why ?

TheMightyFed
12-14-2005, 03:42 PM
OK, this is an off-season like thread, but though I understand they want to make a break in travelling, with the tour, etc., I'm wondering why the former number 1's , who have a the greatest experience in career management, pressure situations and technical skills, are never taking the path of coaching, or for a very short period only. They should transmit their know-how as well, I think it would be great for the game. Are they mercenaries who just chase money and then disapear ? Why is it always second-tier players who become coaches, sometimes successfully (Lundgren, Roche, Gilbert) ?
For example, I have the feeling that when he's done, Federer has everything to be a fantastic coach: great tactic and technical background, experience of big occasions, easy to get along with.

Trivial
12-14-2005, 04:15 PM
Like in the majority of sports it doesn't matter how talented you were (obviously some degree of talent is required) but it is how you get across your knowledge. Just because you can play a sport well does it does not mean that you will be able to get all of your ideas across to another person. Also, some people may simply not have the patience to coach someone. Ive only just started to get into the tennis world so i dont know alot about many of the coaches but i do know soccer, and one example is the Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger, who has never played football at any significent level but has turned out to be a brilliant coach.

adee-gee
12-14-2005, 04:17 PM
I'd imagine a factor would be that top players don't need any more money so they opt not to go into coaching.

But as has been said, a top player would not necessarily make a top coach anyway.

Action Jackson
12-14-2005, 04:19 PM
Why is it always second-tier players who become coaches, sometimes successfully (Lundgren, Roche, Gilbert) ?
For example, I have the feeling that when he's done, Federer has everything to be a fantastic coach: great tactic and technical background, experience of big occasions, easy to get along with.

Roche did win Slams, top players are too selfish, plus they don't want to do it usually.

lau
12-14-2005, 04:21 PM
Like in the majority of sports it doesn't matter how talented you were (obviously some degree of talent is required) but it is how you get across your knowledge. Just because you can play a sport well does it does not mean that you will be able to get all of your ideas across to another person. Also, some people may simply not have the patience to coach someone. Ive only just started to get into the tennis world so i dont know alot about many of the coaches but i do know soccer, and one example is the Arsenal coach Arsene Wenger, who has never played football at any significent level but has turned out to be a brilliant coach.
I agree.
Plus, they don´t want to coach :shrug:
That is not being mercenaries, that is having priorities. ;) They won´t save the world coaching players. :p They already spent years and years living in hotel rooms. Why would they continue on tour, coaching (for much more less money... and this people already have A LOT of money) if they have a family at home (for example)? :shrug:
And I agree with GWH, tennis players have BIG egos :D

NicoFan
12-14-2005, 04:39 PM
I agree.
Plus, they don´t want to coach :shrug:
That is not being mercenaries, that is having priorities. ;) They won´t save the world coaching players. :p They already spent years and years living in hotel rooms. Why would they continue on tour, coaching (for much more less money... and this people already have A LOT of money) if they have a family at home (for example)? :shrug:
And I agree with GWH, tennis players have BIG egos :D

For a person who doesn't like River Plate, you still make a lot of sense. ;) :lol:

Seriously, I think you hit all the major points. Bottom line is they're tired of the travel and they're rich...why would they want to coach?

But I would love to see the top players do a bit more. Not coaching, but in other capacities.

For example, Pat Rafter would be an awesome mentor for the players and a great ambassador to tennis, and is one of my all time favorites. Maybe he is doing things involving the game - but I never hear of it. If he does, please let me know, because I'd love to hear it.

Pete Sampras - never a favorite of mine, but I think its a shame that the man just plays golf 24/7. He could do a lot more to help US tennis.

People diss Johnny Mac here but I've heard so many stories about how the players come to him for advice - he's always there, ready to help. I see Guillermo Villas helping the Argentines. I wish there were more ex-players like both of them.

Andre has said that he would like to continue doing things in tennis when he retires. I would love to see it because he's a good ambassador for the game. Maybe he can be our first tennis commissioner - a position imho that is desperately needed since the ATP is filled with a bunch of clueless clowns. :eek:

Haute
12-14-2005, 04:41 PM
I wonder if part of it would be that they wouldn't want to be overshadowed by their protégé, protect their status as the 'greatest player' the sport has ever seen.

TheMightyFed
12-14-2005, 04:55 PM
I wonder if part of it would be that they wouldn't want to be overshadowed by their protégé, protect their status as the 'greatest player' the sport has ever seen.
Possibly, big egos indeed...

alfonsojose
12-14-2005, 05:30 PM
1. big egos
2. some things can not be taugth

*Ljubica*
12-14-2005, 05:35 PM
I think if you have been a really top player - you might end up being very impatient coaching a player who can't do the things that you used to be able to do easily. I would imagine if your "charge" was not as good as you used to be, and didn't learn as quickly as you did, then a top payer would become exasperated and think "why can't he do that - I used to be able to", Also - as others have said - if you have earned enough money and spent years of your life travelling and staying in Hotels - why would you want to continue? Most players opt not to settle down and start a family until they give up touring, so they will naturally want to enjoy their hard earned money watching their kids grow up and enjoying their family life.

ExpectedWinner
12-14-2005, 05:49 PM
First of all, who is a real tennis coach? Imo, it's a person who can take a kid from "the ground zero" to the professional level. The work with kids neither is glorious, or extremely profitable.

michelleg
12-14-2005, 05:50 PM
Like anything else in life, simply having the talent or skill does not necessarily enable a person to teach those skills or foster those abilities in others. Being a coach/mentor to others is more dependent upon personality traits imo.

NicoFan
12-14-2005, 05:52 PM
First of all, who is a real tennis coach? Imo, it's a person who can take a kid from "the ground zero" to the professional level. The work with kids neither is glorious, or extremely profitable.

I think that the coaches that work with the players are important, but you're right, the most important coaches are the ones that are probably with the guys at the junior level. And then the coach that can take a player from like 70/80 land up to above 30.

Some of the really top guys don't even need coaches. Their coaches are there to make plane reservations, carry baggage, and get practice partners. ;)

Castafiore
12-14-2005, 05:55 PM
In soccer, somebody offered the following explanation for that phenomenon:

The biggest talents, the greatest players tend to play more by instinct. Of course, they need training and coaching and reaching the top is a lot of hard work for them too but their talent and skill with the ball is such that things are a bit more 'natural' for them.

On the other hand, a player who is not really a "top" player, has to compensate for being not as talented, so they are more inclined and forced to learn about every possible aspect of the game to try and find a way to outsmart strong opponents. For them, it takes more effort to try and figure out various ways to beat an opponent so.That's the reason, said this soccer expert, that the very best coaches were often not the very best players.

For example, Ronaldinho had to learn the sport and every aspect by practicing a lot from a young age but it's easy to see how natural some of those things are to him, whereas a lesser talented player will have to 'think' more about how he can get the ball past another player.

Does that make sense and is that a possibility in tennis as well?

TheMightyFed
12-14-2005, 06:38 PM
In soccer, somebody offered the following explanation for that phenomenon:

The biggest talents, the greatest players tend to play more by instinct. Of course, they need training and coaching and reaching the top is a lot of hard work for them too but their talent and skill with the ball is such that things are a bit more 'natural' for them.

On the other hand, a player who is not really a "top" player, has to compensate for being not as talented, so they are more inclined and forced to learn about every possible aspect of the game to try and find a way to outsmart strong opponents. For them, it takes more effort to try and figure out various ways to beat an opponent so.That's the reason, said this soccer expert, that the very best coaches were often not the very best players.

For example, Ronaldinho had to learn the sport and every aspect by practicing a lot from a young age but it's easy to see how natural some of those things are to him, whereas a lesser talented player will have to 'think' more about how he can get the ball past another player.

Does that make sense and is that a possibility in tennis as well?
good post and explanation, because I'm sure some of the ex number 1's would lobve to be involved in some slams, I mean when you spend time playing amateur golf life might be quite boring, especially when you have this experience level. a 14 winning slam or a 109 titles experience is something to share in a way or another, but it's true that these guys are so gifted that it hardly translates... From another standpoint I know Edberg, one of the most gifted players, is training some young guys in Sweden, I find it beautiful, it's a great way to remain fit and be useful on the same time. But Edberg has always been special... Lendl, known as "the robot", might know tons of things but prefers focusing on golf...

Socket
12-14-2005, 08:25 PM
Don't need the money, don't want to travel and live out of suitcases anymore, don't want to have to deal with agents/managers/attorneys/parents, can earn more money commentating and/or running tournaments.

Deboogle!.
12-14-2005, 08:43 PM
Pete Sampras - never a favorite of mine, but I think its a shame that the man just plays golf 24/7. He could do a lot more to help US tennis.I love Pete, but I don't think he'd be a good coach. Also, I think it's hard to fault him for wanting to stay away from tennis (mind you he is a huge investor in both TTC and Tennis Magazine, so it's not like he's doing NOTHING). He has two small kids, and I actually admire him for what he's doing. Sure it'd be nice for him to help tennis more publicly, but that was never the kind of guy he was so I wouldn't expect him to change in his retirementPeople diss Johnny Mac here but I've heard so many stories about how the players come to him for advice - he's always there, ready to help. Yep, he's done things with juniors both here and with the LTA in England, etc. I think he'd make a wonderful coach, but as someone said, why would he want to do that when he can play a little on the seniors tour b/c he loves it, and commentate a few times a year and probably make way more money and live a lot better.

I think Andre could be a good coach. Also, Jim Courier coaches informally a lot. A lot of the American guys now say he helped them when they were younger, esp. when he was with the DC Team, etc. I think he'd be a fantastic coach, but again, he's got his successful promotion company and the new seniors tour in the US, why would he want to go back to coaching?

Galaxystorm
12-14-2005, 09:10 PM
It's true a lot of things that you have said about that the player has won a lot of money during his career and has no necessity of continuing working but enjoy the life , because don't forget that a tennis coach travels together with the player at a lot of tournaments, that is he makes almost the same life than when he was a pro , that is a lot of travels , a lot time out of home , and that's a great sacrifice.

But i will talk about a new point of view, because i think it's one of the main reasons that explains Mdhubert's question:

There are a lot of tennis players that they prefer to watch another sports on Tv instead of watching tennis : I would say that spaniards and south american players prefer to watch football ( soccer ) on TV instead of tennis . I guess north american players prefer to watcth an american football match or baseball instead of watching an international series match. In fact the most of the " latin " players are footballers frustrated because when they were boys they wanted to become footballer .

I think that tennis players love mainly tennis only when they are on court , but they don't love the "whole" sport and thus a lot of tennis players comment that their fave sport to watch (on TV or live ) isn't tennis but another.

Someone can refutes me saying that there are also footballers that when they arrive at home they don't want to watch football matches because are mentally saturated of their sport , it's true .... but do you think that a lot of argentinian footballers miss a River-Boca match on TV ??, do you think a lot of spanish footballers miss a Barça-Madrid match on TV ?? , do you think a lot of italian footballers miss a Juve-Milan on TV ??, do you think a lot of american football players miss the Super Bowl on TV ??? The answer is obvious . ;)

Now i will change the question : How many top 100 players missed some of the Grand slams finals on TV ?? :devil:

I have no doubt that at least the 30% of top 100 players don't care less about some Grand slams finals and don't watch them on Tv . Do you think a lot of players watched Masters cup final or Davis cup final on TV ?? ( I know some of them were on holidays abroad , but surely that a lot of them didn't care less about those matches .

That's a key , tennis players love playing tennis, but when they are out of the courts a lot of them don't care less about ATP tournaments where they don't play or have been eliminated beforehand .

In fact i would say that there's no country in the world where tennis is the main/national sport , and because of this reason , all tennis players when they were kids wanted to became another kind of sportsman .

To sump up , a lot of tennis players are another kind of sportsman frustrated ( using this word metaphorically ) , and i have no doubt that latin players would prefer to be playing at the first category of a competitive football league instead of playing on ATP and i have no doubt that a lot of north american tennis players would love being playing at NFL , NBA , MLB instead of playing tennis .

And do you think a lot of footballers or american football players would love playing tennis instead of their own sport ?? I think the answer is pretty obvious too. ;)

Fee
12-14-2005, 09:15 PM
Remember when Earvin Magic Johnson tried to coach the Lakers for a few weeks (back in the days when I still cared about the NBA)?

That's why top tennis players don't become coaches...

almouchie
12-14-2005, 09:26 PM
like with any sports, great players dont necessarily make great coaches or vice versa. As for tennis, the coach doesnt get as much 'credit' or whatever u would like to cal it, as opposed to other games, especially that is it an individual game. Tennis unlike many others (maybe golf included) a lot of traveling over sees is required and drains the players for long time that many of them complain about it. they are playing in different countries, continents constantly

as for Pete Sampras, for a great player & a Legend who has known nothing but tennis for most of his years. he is entitled to few years to wind down enjoy his life & family. As his nature , he does things only commitedly & fully motivated.

cincy
12-14-2005, 09:31 PM
I think Andre could be a good coach.

No he wouldn't. Andre would not have the patience to coach a professional tennis player. He would, however, do very well teaching children to play. In fact, he does just that at the Boys and Girls Club in Las Vegas and he has just become a partner in a tennis club in Carson, California.

Andre loves children and that is where his focus will be when he retires. I can't imagine him chosing to travel and be away from his family as a coach to some spoiled, bratty player.

stebs
12-14-2005, 10:02 PM
maybe it is because the less succesful players have not acheived what they wish and feel they would like to try and acheive it through coaching. Top players have already acheived what they want.

michelleg
12-15-2005, 12:25 AM
Coaching is very much like teaching. The best and brightest in their respective career fields do not always make the best teachers in those fields. It takes a rare combination of desire and personality to be a teacher.

megadeth
12-15-2005, 12:38 AM
it's tennis' way to balance itself - you make a lot of money being a top player, you won't need any more cash to pursue coaching.

at the same time, 2nd tier players didn't earn much when playing, they'll make up for it by being great at coaching... :p

Federerthebest
12-15-2005, 01:56 AM
Roche is a 'second-tier player'? French-Open champion, two-time French-Open Finalist, two-time US-Open finalist, one-time Wimbledon finalist. Second-tier player indeed. :retard:

NicoFan
12-15-2005, 02:34 AM
I love Pete, but I don't think he'd be a good coach. Also, I think it's hard to fault him for wanting to stay away from tennis (mind you he is a huge investor in both TTC and Tennis Magazine, so it's not like he's doing NOTHING). He has two small kids, and I actually admire him for what he's doing. Sure it'd be nice for him to help tennis more publicly, but that was never the kind of guy he was so I wouldn't expect him to change in his retirement

Lol! That was my Pete prejudice coming out. ;) So sorry. I did know that he invested in TTC, a station I love, so I have to thank him. Didn't know that he invested in Tennis Magazine though - that's great. I guess I was thinking more of the mentoring though. Sometimes I think some of these younger players need just advice and support. Like Johnny Mac does with the guys.

I think Andre would be a good coach too - but he wouldn't travel.

My dream team - Andre and Pat Rafter working as co-commissioners of tennis. What a team! Both the players and fans would respect them. Not sure we can get Pat that involved again though. He seems to be very happy with his very lovely life in Australia.

GonzoFan
12-15-2005, 04:54 AM
I think - as many here have said - that most of the top players don't become coaches because they have already gave a lot to tennis and I think that most of all they are so tired with all the traveling and after being a top player maybe they only want to have time to be with their families and don't want to start all over again with the whole traveling and "tennis world" thing. Besides, I don't think they'll have the patience a coach needs, they are so tired of that after being a pro.
And I also have to agree with Stebs because that's also a great possibility of why top players don't become coaches.

TheMightyFed
07-25-2006, 03:57 PM
Maybe will Connors set a trend of legends becoming coaches. Do you think he will succeed with Roddick ?

Pigpen Stinks
07-25-2006, 05:06 PM
In soccer, somebody offered the following explanation for that phenomenon:

The biggest talents, the greatest players tend to play more by instinct. Of course, they need training and coaching and reaching the top is a lot of hard work for them too but their talent and skill with the ball is such that things are a bit more 'natural' for them.

On the other hand, a player who is not really a "top" player, has to compensate for being not as talented, so they are more inclined and forced to learn about every possible aspect of the game to try and find a way to outsmart strong opponents. For them, it takes more effort to try and figure out various ways to beat an opponent so.That's the reason, said this soccer expert, that the very best coaches were often not the very best players.

For example, Ronaldinho had to learn the sport and every aspect by practicing a lot from a young age but it's easy to see how natural some of those things are to him, whereas a lesser talented player will have to 'think' more about how he can get the ball past another player.

Does that make sense and is that a possibility in tennis as well?

This makes a lot of sense, and I think it's the best overall explanation. If you look at American football, most of the best coaches were either marginal players and some never played the game at all. Guys like Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcells. In the NBA the great coaches are guys that often rode the bench during their careers, or at least weren't star players - Pat Riley, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson. Team sports are certainly different from a coaching perspective than pro tennis (where you're strictly coaching an individual(s)), but there is a lot of crossover. I'd also agree that for players that achieved greatness in the sport there is less motivation to get involved in coaching.