Best/worst players under pressure? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Best/worst players under pressure?

fedpras
12-05-2005, 05:29 AM
While I was watching the Davis Cup Final, I was thinking about how Mario Ancic was one of the last players I'd want playing the deciding rubber of the finals of the Davis Cup (although he won, and I'm happy for him). So this prompted me to ask this:

You’ve bet your entire life savings on the Davis Cup finals. It's the fifth set of the deciding rubber, and the player you bet on is serving at 5-6 15-30. Who would you want your player to be? Who wouldn't you want your player to be?

El Legenda
12-05-2005, 06:11 AM
Roddick is the worst, did you see the match vs Ljubicic in round one of DC, that 5th set, wow.

World Beater
12-05-2005, 06:15 AM
Roddick is the worst, did you see the match vs Ljubicic in round one of DC, that 5th set, wow.

You are a moron, if you cant realize that every player has choked or played a stinker at some point in his life.

Pointing the finger at roddick is plain idiotic. He isnt the best, but nowhere near the worst under pressure especially with that serve of his.

Federerthebest
12-05-2005, 06:20 AM
Wouldn't want:

Ljubicic

Ancic

Mathieu

Nalbandian

Coria

Gaudio

Stepanek

Kiefer

Henman

Malisse

Blake

Would want:

Hewitt

Nadal

Safin

Bjorkman

Philippoussis

Lappenti

Novak

Hrbarty

El Legenda
12-05-2005, 06:27 AM
You are a moron, if you cant realize that every player has choked or played a stinker at some point in his life.

Pointing the finger at roddick is plain idiotic. He isnt the best, but nowhere near the worst under pressure especially with that serve of his.

okay

World Beater
12-05-2005, 06:30 AM
okay


I am no fan of roddick neither.

BTW congrats on the davis cup win, your nation should be very proud

its.like.that
12-05-2005, 06:35 AM
Worst: Hewitt, Agassi, Lisnard, Henman

El Legenda
12-05-2005, 06:36 AM
I am no fan of roddick neither.

BTW congrats on the davis cup win, your nation should be very proud

Roddick has had alot of chances under pressure, few GS finals and SF and DC FINAL and the 1st round DC, he didnt win.

well since people will bring up Ljubicic for some reason, he has not had many under pressure situations. Madrid was semi-pressure. Paris was nothing at all, he knew he was in TMC with safin out. even with lose he was in. Davis Cup final was 4th rubber, not 5th and his team was up 2-1, thanks to him getting 2 wins. singles and in dubs he stepped up when mario was down.

Xytraguptorh
12-05-2005, 06:56 AM
Federerthebest's list is quite good

I like Agassi on critical points too, and Dent has been coming through

Mirnyi, Robredo, Youzhny, and Grosjean have really fucked up some high-pressure situations

Choosing Roddick at 5-6, 15-30 in the 5th is not bad -- his serve gets him out of jams, and he's usually good in tie-breaks, though that's been a less reliable part of his game lately

Pioline, now that guy could choke

Will be interesting to see how many people wouldn't want Federer

World Beater
12-05-2005, 06:58 AM
Roddick has had alot of chances under pressure, few GS finals and SF and DC FINAL and the 1st round DC, he didnt win.

well since people will bring up Ljubicic for some reason, he has not had many under pressure situations. Madrid was semi-pressure. Paris was nothing at all, he knew he was in TMC with safin out. even with lose he was in. Davis Cup final was 4th rubber, not 5th and his team was up 2-1, thanks to him getting 2 wins. singles and in dubs he stepped up when mario was down.

yes but consider roddick's opposition compared to ljubicic.

roddick had to play federer a bunch, lleyton a bunch. Its not abt pressure, he aint good enough sometimes.

The fact that roddick came close to federer, the supposed greatest ever on grass speaks volumes to his ability despite losing all the time.

i agree roddick has lost his confidence and isnt as good in pressure situations.

But consider that ivan is playing his best ever, his mental focus is letting him down. When roddick was #1, he didnt lose close matches. Ljubo shouldnt be losing the way he does when he is playing his best tennis right now.

The point isnt that ljubicic is worse than roddick, but that you probably cant compare the two, because one is on rise while the other is well...who knows

Xytraguptorh
12-05-2005, 07:13 AM
I'm not a fan of Roddick either, but you have to acknowledge he's one of the most consistent title-earners on tour

He's not really a choker -- he just doesn't have the game of Federer or Hewitt, and were it not for those two he'd have a few more Slams

Likewise, Hewitt would have a few more if not for Federer

The question is about high-pressure situations, not being outplayed in Finals matches

flutterby
12-05-2005, 07:19 AM
Best: as much as I don't wanna say it, Hewitt. When he plays Davis Cup, or anything for the aussies, he gets so worked up and her hardly ever loses. Also Nalbandian, i think his big matches he comes up to the mark. This can be seen especially in Davis Cup, Grandslam events, and the final of the Masters Cup against Fed.

I don't think you just have to back the best players because you know they'll always play well, but also the ones that you know will play with heart. I dunno.... thats just the way i see it.

landoud
12-05-2005, 07:46 AM
best : Federer
worst: Safin... he throwes stuff , breaks other stuff ... etc

MariaV
12-05-2005, 08:07 AM
worst: Safin... he throwes stuff , breaks other stuff ... etc
:haha: :haha:

mickymouse
12-05-2005, 08:12 AM
Hewitt or Nadal. They're not my favorite players but they are good bets for important matches, especially ones that they're expected to win. I admire their mental strength, although not their game.

DrJules
12-05-2005, 08:43 AM
Best under pressure:

Lleyton Hewitt - ultimate competitor who rarely fails due to pressure. If loses usually outplayed. Numerous occasions shown strength; twice probably should have lost to James Blake in grand slams, but in each case his superior mental strength saw him to victory.

Rafael Nadal - keeps his head under pressure and keeps focused; Rome 2005 and Madrid 2005.

Roger Federer - the player who lifts his game under pressure; Wimbledon 2004 and US Open 2005.

Worst under pressure:

Ivan Ljubicic - does not play his best in big finals and struggles to win.

Nicolas Keifer - lost about 8 finals in a row?

David Nalbandian - still to be convinced that he is a big occasion player. Has struggled on big occasions.

cris1085
12-05-2005, 09:42 AM
Hewitt and Federer are the best. Coria and Tim Henman are the worst.

Guybrush
12-05-2005, 11:16 AM
You’ve bet your entire life savings on the Davis Cup finals. It's the fifth set of the deciding rubber, and the player you bet on is serving at 5-6 15-30. Who would you want your player to be? Who wouldn't you want your player to be?

Can we choose players from the past? If yes then I say Pete Sampras.

bad gambler
12-05-2005, 11:21 AM
worst - misha, kiefer, ancic

World Beater
12-05-2005, 11:25 AM
pete sampras is about twenty times more mentally tough than anyone in tennis now

Liverpool4ever
12-05-2005, 11:29 AM
It is not possible to win 11 titles a year without playing well under pressure so no surprise my top two this year would be Nadal and Federer. Based on this year alone though, I would put Nadal slightly ahead. He rarely if at all makes an unforced error on the big points and keeps his composure even when the crowd are against him eg against Grosjean, Federer, Italy in Davis Cup and Montreal. Also even when he was injured he managed to dig deep and still managed to beat players such as Stephanek and Ljubicic, whom had the games to give him trouble.

Deea
12-05-2005, 11:35 AM
Best: Nadal, Federer, Nalbandian and...well I truly believe what I'm saying: Marat Safin. Because he can cope well with pressure. He has showed it more than once. It's a matter of wanting if you ask me... ;)
Worst: Kiefer, Puerta and...I'm sorry to say but Coria! :sad:

shotgun
12-05-2005, 12:21 PM
Best: Federer, Nalbandian, Hrbaty, Hewitt.

Worst: Gaudio, Ferrero, Coria, Ancic.

Action Jackson
12-05-2005, 12:28 PM
pete sampras is about twenty times more mentally tough than anyone in tennis now

Still doesn't match Borg in that case.

World Beater
12-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Still doesn't match Borg in that case.

really??? i never saw borg...what made him better?...i saw sampras at his best, and i can only draw parallels to jordan and woods when it came to delivering in the clutch. sampras had incredible heart. remember him puking against corretja, crying against courier etc.

*Ljubica*
12-05-2005, 12:39 PM
Would want:-

Hewitt
Nadal
Federer

Wouldn't want:-

Coria
Nalbandian
Ancic

Action Jackson
12-05-2005, 12:46 PM
really??? i never saw borg...what made him better?...i saw sampras at his best, and i can only draw parallels to jordan and woods when it came to delivering in the clutch. sampras had incredible heart. remember him puking against corretja, crying against courier etc.

What winning Wimbledon 5 times in a row from the baseline, winning 23 out of 27 5 set matches, doing the RG/Wimbledon double 3 times in a row, should have lost at Wimbledon during those years, his match against McEnroe at Wimbledon in 80, they always show that and that's an example of mental toughness.

Borg didn't need to cry or vomit on court, he had it under control on court.

World Beater
12-05-2005, 12:55 PM
What winning Wimbledon 5 times in a row from the baseline, winning 23 out of 27 5 set matches, doing the RG/Wimbledon double 3 times in a row, should have lost at Wimbledon during those years, his match against McEnroe at Wimbledon in 80, they always show that and that's an example of mental toughness.

Borg didn't need to cry or vomit on court, he had it under control on court.


good for borg that he won wimby five times, but is it an indication of toughness? ok , you mentioned one match. but i dont know if borg faced the same adversity that sampras did on court . at times,
your last statement misunderstood why i mentioned it...was borg ever sick to such a degree that it affected his play? Or play injured like sampras and still win?

if borg was as sick as sampras was, im pretty sure he would have let it out, unless he enjoys swallowing his own puke. could it possibly be that sampras was sick because of his blood condition? did you consider that, and maybe he couldnt control it like borg?

Action Jackson
12-05-2005, 01:03 PM
good for borg that he won wimby five times, but is it an indication of toughness? ok , you mentioned one match. but i dont know if borg faced the same adversity that sampras did on court . at times,
your last statement misunderstood why i mentioned it...was borg ever sick to such a degree that it affected his play? Or play injured like sampras and still win?

if borg was as sick as sampras was, im pretty sure he would have let it out, unless he enjoys swallowing his own puke. could it possibly be that sampras was sick because of his blood condition? did you consider that, and maybe he couldnt control it like borg?

Borg was known as the Ice Man, that alone should give it away as to how tough he was mentally. Does someone mentally weak win a tournament 5 times in a row on a surface where they shouldn't have any success with the game that they have?

I only mentioned one match as it was the most famous one and that is what he was known for in the game, his absolute mental toughness, ruthless consistency and the ability to stay calm under pressure with no histrionics and those other 2 things you conveniently overlooked are examples of this as well.

World Beater
12-05-2005, 01:17 PM
Borg was known as the Ice Man, that alone should give it away as to how tough he was mentally. Does someone mentally weak win a tournament 5 times in a row on a surface where they shouldn't have any success with the game that they have?

I only mentioned one match as it was the most famous one and that is what he was known for in the game, his absolute mental toughness, ruthless consistency and the ability to stay calm under pressure with no histrionics and those other 2 things you conveniently overlooked are examples of this as well.

no i dont disagree that borg was mentally tough...but was he tougher than sampras...you have seen both, so you are the better judge even though i have a feeling your are biased to the swede.

Action Jackson
12-05-2005, 01:26 PM
no i dont disagree that borg was mentally tough...but was he tougher than sampras...you have seen both, so you are the better judge even though i have a feeling your are biased to the swede.

I just gave basic facts that's all, if you want to think my view is clouded then go ahead. Cause I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am biased, that's a cop out.

Ok, RG/Wimb double 3 times in a row, did Sampras ever come close to that? It's not as if Borg was the most gifted player ever to play the game, how did he win against players better than he was? It's not close when it comes to mental toughness and under pressure, this is what made him as a player.

Experimentee
12-05-2005, 01:37 PM
Worst: Gaudio
Best: Hewitt

Action Jackson
12-05-2005, 01:38 PM
Hewitt or Nadal as the best.

gooner88
12-05-2005, 01:43 PM
Alot of people are mentioning Nalbo as not being a mentally strong player under pressure. Up until this year I myself would've put him under the bracket of not being strong player under pressure.
But I think this year he has matured on the big stage, especially in the Davis Cup with the wins against Hewitt and Hrbaty. Not many players would've been strong enough to come back from 2 sets down against Fed in Shanghai the way Nalbo did. He's not the finished article yet, but he's proved this year he can perform well under pressure.

Pigpen Stinks
12-05-2005, 01:57 PM
I gotta side with Hitler on the Borg vs. Sampras as far as mental toughness. First off, Sampras had greater skills. How many really tight 5 setters did Sampras win? We know about the Corretja match, but that's against a guy he had no business being in a 5th set with on that surface in the first place. Yes, Pete was mentally tough, but I think his talent outweighed his mental toughness. He was not a stud in Davis Cup - one particularly bad loss to Forget that cost them the title. As for Borg, his mental toughness far outweighed his talent. I'm not positive, but I think his Davis Cup record wasn't too shabby either.

Another guy I'd take over Sampras was Becker. He was spectacular under pressure, and had a very good quote about 5 setters. "The fifth set has very little to do with tennis." Add Wilander to that list as well.

As far as today's guys, I actually think that mental toughness is one of Roddick's biggest strengths (aside from that serve). Admittedly, he may have lost a bit of confidence in the last year or two, but for a guy that doesn't have that great a game aside from the one huge weapon, he sure does win a lot of titles.

It seems a lot of people are ragging on Nalby, but I think he's pretty tough. Hewitt, of course, is strong in this area. Thumbs down to Taylor Dent. To me, he seems to find ways to lose big matches. Maybe if he got himself into better shape it would help his mental outlook also.

Galaxystorm
12-05-2005, 02:00 PM
There are some key situations during a set when you can see how well or not the player manages/bears the pressure.

For me , these situations are mainly when a player is serving and is down 5-4 or 6-5, that is if the player is broken in that game he loses the set.


I love these situations at the end of the set because a lot of players choke and statistically surely is the part of the set with more breaks because of the pressure over the player who is serving . These key moments ( 6-5 , 5-4 ) i have always called them metaphorically as " The time of the machos or the queers ". ( Without the intention of offending anybody , it's just a matter of a bit of humor )

Unluckily i don't know no website or stat ( i guess it doesn't exist ) :shrug: where we can consult which is the percentage of each player about the times they are broken serving in those situations. . Among all the criterions to define what is a player who manages/bears or not the pressure , i think the most important situations ,as i have said , would be ( 6-5 , 5-4 situations )

In fact, i always consider that beginning a set serving is a remarkable advantage for that player , and i would say that statistically the percentage of sets won by the player who begins serving is superior to the percentage of sets won by the player who returns first , and above all in the definitive set ( for example , the third set at the best of the 3) , i think the player who begins serving in that definitive set has an important advantage . ( I'm talking in general terms , that is two players with a similar level , because if a top 10 faces a 50th player , it's pretty obvious that although the 50th serves first the top 10 has more chances to win the set.

I also consider that there are serveral players that are considered as " chokers " , but watching the stats we would see that it's a deceptive thought because the stats show otherwise.

To sum up , without stats i think this thread will be plenty of deceptive thoughts :shrug:

World Beater
12-05-2005, 02:02 PM
I just gave basic facts that's all, if you want to think my view is clouded then go ahead. Cause I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am biased, that's a cop out.

Ok, RG/Wimb double 3 times in a row, did Sampras ever come close to that? It's not as if Borg was the most gifted player ever to play the game, how did he win against players better than he was? It's not close when it comes to mental toughness and under pressure, this is what made him as a player.

sampras' game wasnt suited to clay...even you know this. its not like he could use his toughness in high pressure situation. he never really got the opportunity to use it.

borg was a strategic genius in being able to play on both with a baseline game. does it equal mental toughness, not sure. tell me why he didnt succeed at the aus or us open? borg was one of the most mentally tough, no doubt, but better than sampras, i dont know.

Truc
12-05-2005, 02:06 PM
Alot of people are mentioning Nalbo as not being a mentally strong player under pressure.I think it depends on the question. If you're asking for players who can handle with the pressure of the DC in general, Nalby is one of the best DC players. But since the question was: "the player you bet on is serving at 5-6 15-30, who would you want your player to be?", I wouldn't pick Nalby in that situation either, he loses his serve too often.

(And for the same reason, I agree Coria would probably be the worst choice right now in that situation).

World Beater
12-05-2005, 02:07 PM
How many really tight 5 setters did Sampras win? We know about the Corretja match, but that's against a guy he had no business being in a 5th set with on that surface in the first place. .

o.

vs kafelnikov at ausopen.
vs courier at ausopen
vs goran at wimby
vs korda at wimby
vs becker at yec
others that i am forgetting.

but okay, i havent seen borg play, so maybe he was better in this regard.

gooner88
12-05-2005, 02:14 PM
I think it depends on the question. If you're asking for players who can handle with the pressure of the DC in general, Nalby is one of the best DC players. But since the question was: "the player you bet on is serving at 5-6 15-30, who would you want your player to be?", I wouldn't pick Nalby in that situation either, he loses his serve too often.

(And for the same reason, I agree Coria would probably be the worst choice right now in that situation).

Agreed. In that particular situation Nalbo wouldn't be the player for me if I had to bet my life savings on it cause of the serve. But then again you wouldn't bank on most of the players in the Top 100 in that situation.

Alvarillo
12-05-2005, 02:19 PM
Best: Nadal of course, Hewitt too
Worst: Mathieu, Coria, Henman ...

Pigpen Stinks
12-05-2005, 02:27 PM
vs kafelnikov at ausopen.
vs courier at ausopen
vs goran at wimby
vs korda at wimby
vs becker at yec
others that i am forgetting.

but okay, i havent seen borg play, so maybe he was better in this regard.

Points well taken. Pete was one of the greatest, no doubt. He typically played his best tennis in the biggest moments, and he did it an awful lot. From that standpoint, you would have to admire his mental strength. However, another facet of mental toughness is what you can summon when you don't have your "A game", as Tiger likes to say. This was rare for Pete, but there were more than a handful of occasions in his career when he wasn't at his best, and instead of fighting through it, seemed to almost mail it in. He'd get that droopy look (similar to Davenport). Examples are his loss to Edberg in US open final, Forget in Davis Cup, Kefelnifov semis at French. I could dig up others also. Borg had a much shorter career, so maybe less chances for such losses, but typically was just beaten by better play.

I don't think he really played the Aussie. A lot of the top guys skipped it in the 70's and early 80's before they moved it to January. The US Open was the enigma for him. He should have won it at least once when it was played on the Har-Tru (American style clay). That's probably the one area you could rip Bjorn a bit. He never sealed the deal at the US Open. Still, having seen both, Borg much stronger mentally in my opinion.

ReturnWinner
12-05-2005, 02:51 PM
believe me gaston is the worst :sad:
i have seen many matches of his so i know what i am saying about

AgassiDomination
12-05-2005, 03:26 PM
Best: Federer or Agassi. The amount of times i've seen them get out of love-40 holes is shocking

fhuneeus
12-05-2005, 04:27 PM
Best: definitely federer.... as you say if he was serving 15-30 on 5-6 5th set federer always serves incredible when he's under pressure and that is really important... nadal has a great mentality and runs all balls, but his serve isn't that good so it would be difficult for him...

Worst: Definitely coria i think

fedpras
12-05-2005, 07:44 PM
believe me gaston is the worst :sad:
i have seen many matches of his so i know what i am saying about

Except that Gaudio rarely makes to 5-6 in the fifth set. He usually falls apart after losing the first set. :rolleyes:

DrJules
12-05-2005, 08:14 PM
What winning Wimbledon 5 times in a row from the baseline, winning 23 out of 27 5 set matches, doing the RG/Wimbledon double 3 times in a row, should have lost at Wimbledon during those years, his match against McEnroe at Wimbledon in 80, they always show that and that's an example of mental toughness.

Borg didn't need to cry or vomit on court, he had it under control on court.

During the Wimbledon final of 1980 Bjorn Borg actually used serve and volley for a lot of the match, far more than Federer ever has used serve and volley.
During his 5 championship run at Wimbledon he came back from 2 sets to love down against Mark Edmondson in 1977 and in the final that year held together after Conners recovered from 4 love down in the final set to level at 4-4 only to watch Borg win 6-4. In 1978 Borg was 2 sets to 1 and a break down to Victor Amaya and managed to win that match. In 1979 Roscoe Tanner had a break point in the 5th set of the final against Borg which given Roscoe Tanner's serve would probably have won Roscoe Tanner the match if he could convert that break point. In 1980 McEnroe took Borg apart in the first set winning 6-1 and dominated the second set, but Borg again won. Borg went into the 5th set of that match having watched McEnroe save 7 match points and still managed to mentally hold together to win the 5th set. Many would have fallen apart after seeing that many match points saved.
Borg won his semi-final in the US Open of 1980 from 2 sets to love down against Johann Kriek.

I have never seen a player mentally as tough as Borg.

DrJules
12-05-2005, 08:26 PM
sampras' game wasnt suited to clay...even you know this. its not like he could use his toughness in high pressure situation. he never really got the opportunity to use it.

borg was a strategic genius in being able to play on both with a baseline game. does it equal mental toughness, not sure. tell me why he didnt succeed at the aus or us open? borg was one of the most mentally tough, no doubt, but better than sampras, i dont know.

Borg only played the Aus Open once in 1974. Top players did not go to the Australian Open in those days.

Yes. Sampras never had the game for clay and only reached one French Open semi-final. Sampras won 33 of his 5 set matches and lost 15 of his 5 set matches.

Borg actually won 6 times on clay which was his natural surface, 5 times on grass which was not his surface, but he adapted and mentally could win close contests on the surface, and managed to reach 3 finals on US Open hard courts often winning 5 set battles. Borg won 23 of his 5 set matches and only lost 4 of his 5 set matches. The reason Borg won his 11th grand slam just after his 25th birthday is because he won so many of his close matches.

tangerine_dream
12-05-2005, 08:53 PM
Gaudio the worst? Come on people, he's a slam winner and has won numerous titles this year. Just because he flakes out occassionally on his worst surface doesn't mean he's mentally weak all the time. He wasn't the one who choked to the point of giving himself cramps at Roland Garros 2004.

And before anyone mentions it, eating two bagels by Federer at TMC wasn't a choke job. He just got beat, period.

SwissMister1
12-05-2005, 09:03 PM
You’ve bet your entire life savings on the Davis Cup finals. It's the fifth set of the deciding rubber, and the player you bet on is serving at 5-6 15-30. Who would you want your player to be?

Pipo Volandri, obviously.

DrJules
12-05-2005, 09:16 PM
And before anyone mentions it, eating two bagels by Federer at TMC wasn't a choke job. He just got beat, period.

Gaudio is more guilty of not trying than choking; against Monfils in Lyon, against Berdych in Paris (second set 6-0) and semi-final of masters in Shanghai (6-0, 6-0). Roger Federer did not play well enough and should not beat a top 10 player 6-0 and 6-0.

Peoples
12-05-2005, 11:06 PM
Don't want: Feliciano Lopez, Mario Ancic, Fernando Verdasco, Xavier Malisse, Nicolas Kiefer, Paul-Henri Mathieu.

alexa18
12-06-2005, 03:45 AM
Worst: Hewitt, Agassi, Lisnard, Henman
Hewitt?(!)? :eek: He's one of the best under pressure, remember AO 05, against nadal, nalbandian? :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
12-06-2005, 05:36 AM
sampras' game wasnt suited to clay...even you know this. its not like he could use his toughness in high pressure situation. he never really got the opportunity to use it.

That's an ordinary call in a big way. Borg's game was suited to grass you are having a laugh. The only guy to complete the toughest surface transition in history 3 times a row and his name wasn't Sampras.

borg was a strategic genius in being able to play on both with a baseline game. does it equal mental toughness, not sure. tell me why he didnt succeed at the aus or us open? borg was one of the most mentally tough, no doubt, but better than sampras, i dont know.

Yes, he was smart, but he was not as gifted like a lot of the other great players when it came to naturally ability. He hated New York and playing under lights, plus at the Aus Open, sadly it was considered a joke then and once he lost at the US Open, he didn't bother turning up. It was only in the early 80s when Lendl, McEnroe, and others started turning up there, it got better recognition.

Much tougher mentally than Sampras and it's not close, it's not anyone questioning Sampras's position in the game at all, but he wasn't the mentally toughest player ever in the game.

Action Jackson
12-06-2005, 05:51 AM
Gaudio is more guilty of not trying than choking; against Monfils in Lyon, against Berdych in Paris (second set 6-0) and semi-final of masters in Shanghai (6-0, 6-0). Roger Federer did not play well enough and should not beat a top 10 player 6-0 and 6-0.

If you seriously think Gaudio tanked that match against Federer. I will sit you down strapped in a chair and play you 15 of his greatest tank jobs and this wouldn't be in here.

Puschkin
12-06-2005, 06:34 AM
If you are able to win a match against a well-playing opponent and a crowd of 20.000, as Roger did in the US Open final, you must be mentally strong.

If you lose a match, which was yours already, by cramps and wasting matchpoints, something must be wrong with your mentality and preparation, Senor Coria?

Among those retired I'd go for Borg on the tough side and Leconte on the weak side.

DrJules
12-06-2005, 08:33 AM
If you seriously think Gaudio tanked that match against Federer. I will sit you down strapped in a chair and play you 15 of his greatest tank jobs and this wouldn't be in here.
There were as many as 15 :eek:

Action Jackson
12-06-2005, 08:39 AM
There were as many as 15 :eek:

The key to spot a tank is the amount of time he serve and volleys and when it's done on second serves that is a good indicator.

mecir72
12-06-2005, 12:56 PM
Borg was extremely stubborn. Thats the reason behind the ice man exterior. He was actually suspended for something like 6 months in hi sjunior days for bad behaviour. He then promised himself not say another word. I remember seeing an interview where they talked about the 80 final vs Mac and Borg said he was sure he was going to lose after having lost the fourth set. His strength was the ability to focus on one point at a time. I guess that could be seen as mental strength.
Now one of the worst has to be my all time favourite, Slovak DC Captain Miloslav Mecir, he didnt exactly have nerves of steel.
Probably the best, Brad Gilbert.
Of the greats I'd say Becker.

Puschkin
12-06-2005, 02:25 PM
Now one of the worst has to be my all time favourite, Slovak DC Captain Miloslav Mecir, he didnt exactly have nerves of steel.


No, he did not, unfortunately, but he was one of those who made me love tennis, so :worship: Miloslav.

Deivid23
12-06-2005, 02:42 PM
This is what I call a no-brainer:

Best: Nadal
Worst: LaLo

mecir72
12-06-2005, 03:14 PM
How about Jana Novotna. I remember her really rising to the occassion a couple of times...

Ceri
12-06-2005, 03:37 PM
Hewitt, for sure - such mental strength.

nermo
12-06-2005, 03:48 PM
best under stress; i think would be Nadal, Federer, (at some events Nalbandian), Hewitt and of former players, i guess Becker was good at this.

sharonlley
12-06-2005, 07:58 PM
Lots of players are able to cope well when under stress, but, mostly just on couple of matches and occasions.. only Hewitt and Federer are able to do it day in day out.. :) that's an amazing quality that deserves admiration and appreciation...

shotgun
12-06-2005, 08:08 PM
A decisive Davis Cup match, especially if it's an away tie, on a surface that the player dislikes, is the best measure for pressure, because he is playing for a whole country, and not for himself like he does at the tour.

revolution
04-28-2006, 03:31 PM
Best: Xristos
Worst: Mathieu

FSRteam
04-28-2006, 03:33 PM
Best: Xristos
Worst: Mathieu

:haha: :haha: :haha:

FSRteam
04-28-2006, 03:34 PM
Best: Xristos
Worst: Mathieu

I totally agree with the best but I think the worst is Bye!

I♥PsY@Mus!c
04-28-2006, 06:21 PM
Best - Nadal
Worst - Paulo :sad: you miss many chance and choke always,it's hard to be your fan. :sobbing:

AgassiDomination
04-28-2006, 07:45 PM
Best are probably Fed and Agassi. Worst would definetly be Roddick.

Jimnik
04-28-2006, 08:00 PM
BEST:
Hewitt, Nadal, Ferrer and Agassi

WORST
Roddick, Ljubicic, Coria and Ferrero

Angle Queen
04-28-2006, 08:11 PM
In Davis Cup play, Hewitt.

On any given point to the ad-side (15-30...as in the original question) and presuming I can pick an oldie, in his prime...McEnroe. That lefty slice out wide...and bam...it's 30-all.

Ferrero Forever
04-29-2006, 09:48 AM
Best: Federer and Hewitt
Worst: As much as I hate to admit it, Ferrero and all my other favourites

angiel
04-29-2006, 08:39 PM
pete sampras is about twenty times more mentally tough than anyone in tennis now


You take the words right out of my mouth, he his the best player anytime undre pressure - nobody came close, even who is playing right now. :worship: :worship:

angiel
04-29-2006, 08:41 PM
Still doesn't match Borg in that case.


I say really too..... :confused: :(

angiel
04-29-2006, 08:46 PM
I just gave basic facts that's all, if you want to think my view is clouded then go ahead. Cause I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am biased, that's a cop out.

Ok, RG/Wimb double 3 times in a row, did Sampras ever come close to that? It's not as if Borg was the most gifted player ever to play the game, how did he win against players better than he was? It's not close when it comes to mental toughness and under pressure, this is what made him as a player.


You are not giving no facts, those words are just your opinions, not facts at all, you dont know what mental toughness is, trust me and that one, you dont know, Pete Sampras was way mentally tough than anyone in tennis, and those are not just my words - if Borg was so mentally tough, why did he leave tennis so early, you want to know why? he could't handle the pressure, that's why. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

angiel
04-29-2006, 09:00 PM
GeorgeWhilter, go read this before you go running off your mouth, about Borg is tougher than Sampras.

Mental strength - When you can manage your emotions, you can perform at your best

By George Karseras, senior consultant at Sporting Bodymind, the UK's first sports psychology consultancy

At Sporting Bodymind we help our clients develop mental fitness. At the top level it is not your physical or technical expertise which separates you from the competition but your mental toughness. To be outstanding you have to hold your nerve, perform under the most intense pressure, and consistently turn it on even when you don't feel at your best. Mental toughness is what makes Michael Jordan and Pete Sampras so special. These athletes know their real battle is not so much on the court, but inside their heads. You absolutely must manage your mental side if you want to be the best.

almouchie
04-29-2006, 09:14 PM
let go off all the comparisons

players who feel the pressure more than others
Ancic, Nalbandian, Henman

angiel
04-29-2006, 09:22 PM
let go off all the comparisons

players who feel the pressure more than others
Ancic, Nalbandian, Henman


Hi there almouchie :wavey: :wavey:

Some people dont know facts even if it bit them in the ass. :D :D :p

NaDALiTa
04-29-2006, 09:29 PM
the best under pressure is Rafael Nadal and the worst is "cocorico" Paul Henri Mathieu

connectolove
04-29-2006, 10:11 PM
The best player under pressure is, without a doubt, Rafael Nadal.

The worst .... I have no idea.

World Beater
04-30-2006, 03:43 AM
if Borg was so mentally tough, why did he leave tennis so early, you want to know why? he could't handle the pressure, that's why. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad:

this is actually not a bad reason for sampras > borg in mental toughness. I never saw borg play, so i wont comment on whether he was tougher. But i can say for sure sampras is tougher than anyone right now, tougher than nadal.

World Beater
04-30-2006, 03:48 AM
to be honest with a lot of people, i dont see how nadal is the most mentally tough player.

he is def tough. but i dont think he is the toughest.

Its not as if he is going for huge serves and winners on big points. He plays mostly defense and doesnt take any risks. Taking risks on points is about mental tougheness.

I think marat safin might be the best player in pressure situations now despite his mercurial mind.

Jimnik
04-30-2006, 03:53 AM
You take the words right out of my mouth, he his the best player anytime undre pressure - nobody came close, even who is playing right now. :worship: :worship:
Sampras was extremely tough mentally. Certainly tougher than Federer. But to say nobody comes close is too extreme.

Nadal has many times played his best tennis when under pressure. Only last week, he was a set AND a break down to Jarko Nieminen playing in his home tournament. Even with all the pressure and expectation on him, he never crumbled. He fought his way back to victory from a seemingly hopeless situation.

I've never seen Sampras do anything like that in his career.

MisterQ
04-30-2006, 04:04 AM
to be honest with a lot of people, i dont see how nadal is the most mentally tough player.

he is def tough. but i dont think he is the toughest.

Its not as if he is going for huge serves and winners on big points. He plays mostly defense and doesnt take any risks. Taking risks on points is about mental tougheness.


I see what you are saying...but I think the challenge is actually to play your game, even under pressure. Nadal could be tempted to bail and try to end points more quickly, but instead he sticks to his game plan, does what he does best, and trusts that his nerves will not interfere with his consistency and judgement.

World Beater
04-30-2006, 04:09 AM
I've never seen Sampras do anything like that in his career.

Sampras was dead and gone against courier at the AO. Courier was up 2-0 against him. The match where sampras cried because his coach died recently.If that isnt mental toughness, then i dont know what is. To be able to play through a tragedy, or to play when you are dead tired and puke like against corretja

Nadal plays every point the same. He is very tough, but pete going for huge second serves on big points or coming up with great shots is better imo.

what nadal did last week was nothing. Many players on tour have come back from more hopeless situations.

World Beater
04-30-2006, 04:19 AM
I see what you are saying...but I think the challenge is actually to play your game, even under pressure. Nadal could be tempted to bail and try to end points more quickly, but instead he sticks to his game plan, does what he does best, and trusts that his nerves will not interfere with his consistency and judgement.

yes, i dont deny nadal is tough.

but aggressive players always have the percentages against them. When players are able to hit winners on huge points, to me it is bringing out the best when the stakes are the highest.

for me mental toughness is about playing your best tennis under pressure. Rising to the occasion, not merely just playing "your game" under pressure. Good aggressive tennis always beats good defenive tennis.

If sampras throws down a bomb on break point, can nadal use his speed and his consistency to win the point? Or if pete hits a huge forehand, there isnt anything anyone can do.

World Beater
04-30-2006, 04:21 AM
Sampras was extremely tough mentally. Certainly tougher than Federer. But to say nobody comes close is too extreme.

Nadal has many times played his best tennis when under pressure. Only last week, he was a set AND a break down to Jarko Nieminen playing in his home tournament. Even with all the pressure and expectation on him, he never crumbled. He fought his way back to victory from a seemingly hopeless situation.

I've never seen Sampras do anything like that in his career.

a lot of people say federer isnt that tough etc etc.

it takes more than talent to win.

many people think that nadal is tougher than federer. But that is not necc true. If that were the case, i could say blake is tougher than nadal, which he is certainly isnt. Its a matchup problem more than a mental toughness issue.

Against other players federer is incredible. I remember him saving 7 mp's against draper a few years ago.

Deboogle!.
04-30-2006, 04:26 AM
The criteria is who you would want in a Davis Cup match? My answer wouldn't necessarily be the same for Davis Cup as other times because some players play their very best during Davis Cup.

World Beater
04-30-2006, 04:31 AM
errr.okay. Confused by the thread title

probably safin because of his versatility.

Jimnik
04-30-2006, 02:43 PM
a lot of people say federer isnt that tough etc etc.

it takes more than talent to win.

many people think that nadal is tougher than federer. But that is not necc true. If that were the case, i could say blake is tougher than nadal, which he is certainly isnt. Its a matchup problem more than a mental toughness issue.

Against other players federer is incredible. I remember him saving 7 mp's against draper a few years ago.
I'm not just saying it because Nadal beats Federer. I've seen Federer crack many times under pressure. He's thrown rackets, shouted, played poorly etc.. I've never seen Nadal throw a tantrum or play poorly. He keeps fighting whatever the situation may be. He is definately tougher than Federer mentally.

Stensland
01-20-2009, 08:51 AM
talking about pressure: they put tomic in the night session tomorrow. unbelievable considering he's the only guy MAYBE able to save the tournament a bit - and now they're kind of putting the whole stadium up against him. i'm fairly sure he'll crack tomorrow night against muller.

ballbasher101
01-20-2009, 09:07 AM
Nadal is the master under pressure, the guy does not have a big serve but the amount of break points he saves are ridiculous. As for the worst player Fat Dave comes to mind.

FedFan_2007
01-20-2009, 09:16 AM
Federer is the biggest pressure player ever except against Nadal(2-5 in grand slams). Otherwise he owns everyone else in the big pressure situations.

vs Murray(1-0)
vs Djoko(2-1)

rafa_maniac
01-20-2009, 09:57 AM
Nadal is probably the best under pressure I would say, Federer against lesser players is scarily good at saving break points with big serves and digging himself out holes, but lately against the other top guys he's lacked confidence I think in tight matches, he's always been somewhat like that, only until now there was noone except Nadal on his level to exploit it.

As for the worst... you'd probably have to look to someone like Niemenin who has a 1/10 (?) finals record.

bokehlicious
01-20-2009, 10:01 AM
he's always been somewhat like that, only until now there was noone except Nadal on his level to exploit it.

Fed's level dropped, simple as that, otherwise he'd toy with the likes of Djerker or Mugray the way he used to toy with the entire field (bar Nadal on clay) from 2004-2007.

Lopez
01-20-2009, 10:27 AM
As for the worst... you'd probably have to look to someone like Niemenin who has a 1/10 (?) finals record.

That's a pretty stupid thing to say IMO because Jarkko has lost almost all of those finals to quality players at that time, twice to Federer for example. He has a very good 5 set match winning record and is good in tough situations IMO, he only struggles to beat the top guys because he starts going for too much, feeling that more is needed than his normal game.

LEO_Legionario
01-20-2009, 12:09 PM
Best: NADAL, AGASSI, FEDERER, SAMPRAS OF COURSE
Worst: Mathieu, Henman, Gasquet, Gonzalez. CORIA??? I don`t think so, he won a lot of incredible matchs

reggie1
01-20-2009, 12:26 PM
Hmph, I was going to post in this thread but bearing in mind some of the players in my Sig I think I'll keep quiet. ;) I wonder why I love a headcase?!

Venle
01-20-2009, 12:54 PM
Gasquet :o Mind-ripping being a fan of a player who sometimes just doesn't know how to win :awww: :)

talking about pressure: they put tomic in the night session tomorrow. unbelievable considering he's the only guy MAYBE able to save the tournament a bit - and now they're kind of putting the whole stadium up against him. i'm fairly sure he'll crack tomorrow night against muller.

He plays a night match? Oh brilliant :o

Bobby
01-20-2009, 01:19 PM
That's a pretty stupid thing to say IMO because Jarkko has lost almost all of those finals to quality players at that time, twice to Federer for example. He has a very good 5 set match winning record and is good in tough situations IMO, he only struggles to beat the top guys because he starts going for too much, feeling that more is needed than his normal game.

Yes but usually there are no easy opponents in the finals. They are high ranked players or players who have been able to beat the higher ranked ones on the way to the final.

StevoTG
01-20-2009, 01:30 PM
Hewitt from the best list to the worst list :sad:... for now :cool:

petar_pan
01-20-2009, 02:02 PM
djokovic,federer,nadal,(maybe)tsonga and marin cilic.

petar_pan
01-20-2009, 02:06 PM
Wouldn't want:

Ljubicic

Ancic

Mathieu

Nalbandian

Coria

Gaudio

Stepanek

Kiefer

Henman

Malisse

Blake

Would want:

Hewitt

Nadal

Safin

Bjorkman

Philippoussis

Lappenti

Novak

Hrbarty


jiri novak?

rafa_maniac
01-20-2009, 02:11 PM
That's a pretty stupid thing to say IMO because Jarkko has lost almost all of those finals to quality players at that time, twice to Federer for example. He has a very good 5 set match winning record and is good in tough situations IMO, he only struggles to beat the top guys because he starts going for too much, feeling that more is needed than his normal game.

Yes... generally quality players and the ones you face during finals unfortunately. And the fact that he goes for too much against top players kind of proves my point. Anyway, someone else reminded me of Gasquet, who is the real answer to this question :o

petar_pan
01-20-2009, 02:19 PM
well,ljubo was and mario will be again against every opponet thai isn't today's top 3+murray.

petar_pan
01-20-2009, 02:20 PM
well,ljubo was and mario will be great again against every opponent that isn't today's top 3 + murray.

petar_pan
01-20-2009, 02:21 PM
but against top 3 + murray(i think it will be that against murray) they are really cockies.

petar_pan
01-20-2009, 02:31 PM
best:nadal
worst:mathieu or verdasco(mister "make a double on a break-point").it's very hard to choose between this two guys).
i am not spaniard but rafa is such a great in that situations(even his service is not of the best).

richie21
01-20-2009, 02:34 PM
Best: Gilles Simon

Lopez
01-20-2009, 04:16 PM
Yes but usually there are no easy opponents in the finals. They are high ranked players or players who have been able to beat the higher ranked ones on the way to the final.

Yes... generally quality players and the ones you face during finals unfortunately. And the fact that he goes for too much against top players kind of proves my point. Anyway, someone else reminded me of Gasquet, who is the real answer to this question :o

Yeah, sure you both guys have a point but I would you call Roddick mentally weak for losing in 3 GS Finals against Federer? No, because Federer is a much better player. Jarkko is rarely the n1. seed, so reaching the finals isn't even expected of him. A couple of finals he "should" have won, like Llodra and Schalken. You also can't dismiss his 5 set record. Also, he was one year if not the best then among the best statistically in BP saved.

I'm not saying he's mentally very tough, like you guys said, he should play better in big matches, but he's hardly one of the weakest :)

rafa_maniac
01-20-2009, 04:24 PM
Yeah, sure you both guys have a point but I would you call Roddick mentally weak for losing in 3 GS Finals against Federer? No, because Federer is a much better player. Jarkko is rarely the n1. seed, so reaching the finals isn't even expected of him. A couple of finals he "should" have won, like Llodra and Schalken. You also can't dismiss his 5 set record. Also, he was one year if not the best then among the best statistically in BP saved.

I'm not saying he's mentally very tough, like you guys said, he should play better in big matches, but he's hardly one of the weakest :)

Wimbledon 04 = Roddick choked. :p

ORGASMATRON
01-20-2009, 04:44 PM
Nalba is shit under pressure. So is Gasquet. Good guys under pressure are Nadal and Federer.