Tennis Tidbits, Terminology & Vocabulary :) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Tennis Tidbits, Terminology & Vocabulary :)

mandoura
11-15-2005, 01:04 PM
I've been wanting to make this thread for a long time and didn't know if it was done before.

Since this is a tennis forum and GM has been hijacked by who is dating who and more unrelated issues, I thought this thread might be interesting.

English is not my first language so there are some tennis-related terms I don't know. Maybe this thread will help me and others like me.

I will start with two words for knowledgeable people to dwell on:

Grinder & Choker .

What do they mean?

prima donna
11-15-2005, 01:07 PM
Grinder (See Robby Ginepri), very consistent, can't hurt you with any weapons court and basically plays the type of tennis that I bitch about so frequently. Most clay courters are grinders, with the exception of a few.

Basically, blue collar tennis. Davydenko is another good example.

artlinkletter
11-15-2005, 01:07 PM
Choker is when someone looks to be leading the match by a fairly large margin, and suddenly goes through an extended slump and loses key games. A choker isn't when a player wins the first set, loses the next two with close sets ex. 6-4, 5-7, 5-7. Thats not choking in my terms neways

mandoura
11-15-2005, 01:10 PM
Grinder (See Robby Ginepri), very consistent, can't hurt you with any weapons court and basically plays the type of tennis that I bitch about so frequently. Most clay courters are grinders, with the exception of a few.

Basically, blue collar tennis. Davydenko is another good example.

That's an interesting definition and actually what I thought it was. But some people refer to Hewitt as a grinder and that confuse me. :)

PaulieM
11-15-2005, 01:13 PM
Choker is when someone looks to be leading the match by a fairly large margin, and suddenly goes through an extended slump and loses key games. A choker isn't when a player wins the first set, loses the next two with close sets ex. 6-4, 5-7, 5-7. Thats not choking in my terms neways
i'd agree with this, except i'd add that choking doesn't necessarily entail having a complete meltdown for the rest of the match like some people act like it does, it can be a high quality match overall and still involve choking on some level. it's how you lose the lead that makes it a choke. ie. being up 2 sets and a break and then double faulting like a maniac and not being able to hold your serve to save your life a couple of times to lose the set or something like that.

artlinkletter
11-15-2005, 01:16 PM
i'd agree with this, except i'd add that choking doesn't necessarily entail having a complete meltdown for the rest of the match like some people act like it does, it can be a high quality match overall and still involve choking on some level. it's how you lose the lead that makes it a choke. ie. being up 2 sets and a break and then double faulting like a maniac and not being able to hold your serve to save your life a couple of times to lose the set or something like that.

Agreed. I've just noticed a lot of posters tend to believe that just because someone had a break and then lost it, means they choked. Even if the break for the opposing player came from a 40-AD win.

MariaV
11-15-2005, 01:26 PM
That's an interesting definition and actually what I thought it was. But some people refer to Hewitt as a grinder and that confuse me. :)
Well, for his good baseline game and tenacity and defensive skills you can call Hewitt a grinder too. Although usually grinders are clay court specialists aka 'dirtballers'.

It's just like with the choker thing, depends on how people interpret these terms. ;)

prima donna
11-15-2005, 01:29 PM
Well, for his good baseline game and tenacity and defensive skills you can call Hewitt a grinder too. Although usually grinders are clay court specialists aka 'dirtballers'.

It's just like with the choker thing, depends on how people interpret these terms. ;)
Hewitt is a classic defensive player, that's what makes it difficult to separate him from those other players. He hits quite a flat ball.

R.Federer
11-15-2005, 01:29 PM
Grinder = Canas
It is used more widely, but it is very often best used in clay court tennis where you literally keep getting balls back one after the one, less agressive, more return/defensive

R.Federer
11-15-2005, 01:31 PM
Choker = mental disability to win

Personally, if a person is 5-4 or 6-5 or 11-10 in TB serving for the match and double faults, it is not a choke to me.

Choking to me is being cruising, like 5-1 up, get broken once, get broken twice, then get disbelief of winning, and cannot serve.

Happens to great players, happens to not great players. Happens to many human beings I think!

mandoura
11-15-2005, 01:38 PM
Grinder = Canas
It is used more widely, but it is very often best used in clay court tennis where you literally keep getting balls back one after the one, less agressive, more return/defensive

OK. Now I understand.

Along with Maria's and PD's explanations, this term is clear for me now.

Here in Egypt, we have a term for it meaning the picker, i.e. one that picks every ball and sends a back no matter what as long as he keeps it in play.

mandoura
11-15-2005, 01:40 PM
I agree with all what is posted here about a choker. However, some people use the term so generously that I thought I was missing something.

mandoura
11-15-2005, 01:43 PM
Another question nice people:

Spin, top spin and slice ??? !!!

Here they differentiate between the three and I don't understand. For me spin is either top spin or a reverse i.e. a slice. Is there really a third kind, is there a spin that is not a top spin or a slice?

PS: I don't play at all but would like to know. :)

RonE
11-15-2005, 02:01 PM
Another question nice people:

Spin, top spin and slice ??? !!!

Here they differentiate between the three and I don't understand. For me spin is either top spin or a reverse i.e. a slice. Is there really a third kind, is there a spin that is not a top spin or a slice?

PS: I don't play at all but would like to know. :)

There is sidespin- a lot of the times you will see players curve the ball like a banana usually while hitting a forehand down the line for example. It looks as if the ball might go out but then curves back in. This kind of shot would have top-spin and side-spin on it. An example of a player who uses this shot is Rafael Nadal with many of his forehand down the line passing shots on the run.

In addition, sometimes when you see players like Federer hit a drop shot that spins its way back into the net and sidewards, it has a lot of backspin and side spin on it.

Another instance when side-spin is used is on serves- the right hander serving out wide to the deuce court or the left hander serving out wide to the ad-court will utilise side-spin cutting across the right (or left if you're a lefty) side of the ball causing it to swerve away from the returner opening up the court for the server on the next shot.

Top-spin is hitting over the ball causing it to spin foreward and up when it makes contact with the court- the conventional ground strokes are hit with top-spin.

Slice is often used on the backhand and is done by coming underneath the ball causing it to skid back on contact with the court. It is usually executed on the backhand side by both one handed and 2 handed backhands, sometimes as a rallying shot but mostly as a defensive shot. There are times when a player stretched out wide to the forehand will hit what is known as a "squash shot" using the wrist on the stretch to come from the side and under the ball generating a biting penetrating slice. Example of a player who uses this shot to great effect is Coria.

artlinkletter
11-15-2005, 02:06 PM
RonE, I always enjoy reading your posts. You always seem well equiped with tennis knowledge. How old are you, if you dont mind me asking?

RonE
11-15-2005, 02:29 PM
RonE, I always enjoy reading your posts. You always seem well equiped with tennis knowledge. How old are you, if you dont mind me asking?

I am at the ripe old age of 25.

mandoura
11-15-2005, 02:35 PM
There is sidespin- a lot of the times you will see players curve the ball like a banana usually while hitting a forehand down the line for example. It looks as if the ball might go out but then curves back in. This kind of shot would have top-spin and side-spin on it. An example of a player who uses this shot is Rafael Nadal with many of his forehand down the line passing shots on the run.

In addition, sometimes when you see players like Federer hit a drop shot that spins its way back into the net and sidewards, it has a lot of backspin and side spin on it.

Another instance when side-spin is used is on serves- the right hander serving out wide to the deuce court or the left hander serving out wide to the ad-court will utilise side-spin cutting across the right (or left if you're a lefty) side of the ball causing it to swerve away from the returner opening up the court for the server on the next shot.

Top-spin is hitting over the ball causing it to spin foreward and up when it makes contact with the court- the conventional ground strokes are hit with top-spin.

Slice is often used on the backhand and is done by coming underneath the ball causing it to skid back on contact with the court. It is usually executed on the backhand side by both one handed and 2 handed backhands, sometimes as a rallying shot but mostly as a defensive shot. There are times when a player stretched out wide to the forehand will hit what is known as a "squash shot" using the wrist on the stretch to come from the side and under the ball generating a biting penetrating slice. Example of a player who uses this shot to great effect is Coria.

A great win by Rogelio toaday RonE, no :D ? I know you and Rogiman didn't expect it, :secret: neither did I :lol: , but he did it.

Now to your as usual excellent post. My son wins the bet, obviously because he is the one who plays. He told me there is a side-spin.

Fed's drop shot that you mention, isn't it mainly a slice :scratch: :silly:?

mandoura
11-15-2005, 02:39 PM
I am at the ripe old age of 25.

I thought you were a bit younger, 20-21 :) .

MariaV
11-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Now you're great Fed fans Ron, Rogiman and Mando if you don't expect the GOD himself to win! :rolleyes: :angel:
Sorry for interruption, carry on ppl. :wavey:

RonE
11-15-2005, 02:41 PM
A great win by Rogelio toaday RonE, no :D ? I know you and Rogiman didn't expect it, :secret: neither did I :lol: , but he did it.


No I did not expect it, which is what made it even sweeter :D


Now to your as usual excellent post. My son wins the bet, obviously because he is the one who plays. He told me there is a side-spin.

Fed's drop shot that you mention, isn't it mainly a slice :scratch: :silly:?

It is, but the difference between a drop shot and a regular slice shot is that the racquet has extended contact with the ball on the regular slice, riding along the ball. With a drop shot the main element to it is coming underneath it with abbreviated contact making it go up and then veer off spinning viciously the moment it makes contact with the court.

cobalt60
11-15-2005, 02:42 PM
Nice thread Mando! And Ron you do know a lot. Thanks even at the young age of 25 :lol:;)

artlinkletter
11-15-2005, 02:49 PM
I am at the ripe old age of 25.

haha, I did not expect 25. I was guessing more around +35.

RonE
11-15-2005, 03:00 PM
I thought you were a bit younger, 20-21 :) .

haha, I did not expect 25. I was guessing more around +35.

Between the two of you, with an average age guess of 27.5 you came pretty close :p ;)

mandoura
11-15-2005, 03:01 PM
No I did not expect it, which is what made it even sweeter :D

Indeed. :D



It is, but the difference between a drop shot and a regular slice shot is that the racquet has extended contact with the ball on the regular slice, riding along the ball. With a drop shot the main element to it is coming underneath it with abbreviated contact making it go up and then veer off spinning viciously the moment it makes contact with the court.

Ok, I see. My son does them a lot and insisted they were not just slices and I kept arguing. Boy, he will gloat so much now. Some of his go back over the net and it frustrates his opponents. He is so proud of them and couldn't believe I didn't see the art in them. :lol: Are they difficult to make?

BTW, thanks a lot for your posts. Very illuminating. :)

mandoura
11-15-2005, 03:03 PM
:wavey: Sue.

RonE
11-15-2005, 03:08 PM
Indeed. :D


Ok, I see. My son does them a lot and insisted they were not just slices and I kept arguing. Boy, he will gloat so much now. Some of his go back over the net and it frustrates his opponents. He is so proud of them and couldn't believe I didn't see the art in them. :lol: Are they difficult to make?


Extremely difficult as you need to measure it accurately and know when to use it. It is usually a good ploy if your opponenet is standing far behind the baseline to draw him/her in. But especially when doing it you need to measure it so that is does not go too deep into the court giving your opponent an opportunity to take control of the point yet give it enough air so that it clears the net.

I am left handed and one of my favourite shots is using the into-out backhand slice going to the backhand corner of my opponent (if right handed), using slice and side spin causing the ball to veer off. Depending on what position I am in I would either hit it deep or cause it to stop short. Unless my opponenet has some flashy set of wheels it is usually a winning strategy, provided I don't overdo it and use it when my opponenet is far enough out of court.

buddyholly
11-15-2005, 03:08 PM
Well, just about everything has been said, but to me a grinder is someone with no great talent, but makes up for that with tenacity, getting balls back and hanging in there, until his opponent makes a mistake.
Choker can apply to just one point, if it is match point. Someone who goes up a set and loses the next two is not a choker - unless he had a 5-0 lead in the second, or someting like that.

buddyholly
11-15-2005, 03:14 PM
Another question nice people:

Spin, top spin and slice ??? !!!

Here they differentiate between the three and I don't understand. For me spin is either top spin or a reverse i.e. a slice. Is there really a third kind, is there a spin that is not a top spin or a slice?

PS: I don't play at all but would like to know. :)

There is side spin. Federer did it today. He hit a sort of drop shot down the line and when it bounced it did a 90 degree angle out of the court. I have no idea what he does with the raquet to get such side spin. (Edit: RonE has already commented on this shot, it seems.)

To keep this post in the new MTF tradition - Ohhhhhhh, Mandoura has the hots for RonE :) :devil: :angel: :rolleyes: :retard:

fedpras
11-15-2005, 03:16 PM
I have a question about the term "choker." Does one have to give up a lead to be considered a choker? Would it be considered a choke if a player is the big favorite in a match, but he/she is nervous and tightens up and consequently loses the match badly?

buddyholly
11-15-2005, 03:18 PM
I have a question about the term "choker." Does one have to give up a lead to be considered a choker? Would it be considered a choke if a player is the big favorite in a match, but he/she is nervous and tightens up and consequently loses the match badly?

I would say only if the player had the match almost won and then ´´choked´´. If they are behind from the outset and having a bad day, that is not a choke.

RonE
11-15-2005, 03:23 PM
To keep this post in the new MTF tradition - Ohhhhhhh, Mandoura has the hots for RonE :) :devil: :angel: :rolleyes: :retard:

Nothing like the kind of hots you have for GeorgeWHitler and Jorge ;) :p

All in the spirit of the new MTF "tradition" :angel:

mandoura
11-15-2005, 03:37 PM
There is side spin. Federer did it today. He hit a sort of drop shot down the line and when it bounced it did a 90 degree angle out of the court. I have no idea what he does with the raquet to get such side spin. (Edit: RonE has already commented on this shot, it seems.)

To keep this post in the new MTF tradition - Ohhhhhhh, Mandoura has the hots for RonE :) :devil: :angel: :rolleyes: :retard:

Thanks BH. Yes I saw it. My son do them well and it seems they are a big deal and I wasn't giving it or him much credit. I will from now on.

And you caught me on Ron. I have the hots for him and Rogiman, specially that I am old enough to be their mother so it is safe to come out and not hide. In 10 days, I'll be 46. :)

artlinkletter
11-15-2005, 03:43 PM
And you caught me on Ron. I have the hots for him and Rogiman, specially that I am old enough to be their mother so it is safe to come out and not hide. In 10 days, I'll be 46. :)

Dating young men is a fad right now Mandoura. haha.

cobalt60
11-15-2005, 03:51 PM
Thanks BH. Yes I saw it. My son do them well and it seems they are a big deal and I wasn't giving it or him much credit. I will from now on.

And you caught me on Ron. I have the hots for him and Rogiman, specially that I am old enough to be their mother so it is safe to come out and not hide. In 10 days, I'll be 46. :)
:lol: Well I guess there is a line forming then Mando :p

buddyholly
11-15-2005, 03:57 PM
Nothing like the kind of hots you have for GeorgeWHitler and Jorge ;) :p

All in the spirit of the new MTF "tradition" :angel:
I think Jorge has dumped me. He never writes.

buddyholly
11-15-2005, 03:59 PM
And you caught me on Ron. I have the hots for him and Rogiman, specially that I am old enough to be their mother so it is safe to come out and not hide. In 10 days, I'll be 46. :)

Not to worry, I think Mrs. Robinson was even older.

RonE
11-15-2005, 04:35 PM
I think Jorge has dumped me. He never writes.

Aww, that's a shame. You two made such a sweet couple :awww:

stebs
11-15-2005, 08:49 PM
I have a question about the term "choker." Does one have to give up a lead to be considered a choker? Would it be considered a choke if a player is the big favorite in a match, but he/she is nervous and tightens up and consequently loses the match badly?

difficult question actually. although usually i would agree with the others and say that a choke must be losing a commanding lead in a match if deep into a tournament i think you can choke without ever being ahead.

for example a player who has never won a grand slam tournament which he has been close to winning (Henman, Coria etc...) could be called a choker if they got to the final of the tournament and then froze in the final in a match they were favourites in. I would see it as a correct use of the term "choke" if after Coria lost a french open final to a weaker player (lets say Ginepri) someone said

"gee, Coria really choked in that match".

I'm probably in the minority in believing this but just my opinion. I can't seem to think if a recent real life example of what i described but oh well hopefully it is understandable.

EDIT: I have finally figured what i really believe a choker is, a statement for describing one could be:

A player who loses a match as a result of mental problems despite having a superior chance of winning a match. A mental problem could be nerves or some kind of a block (phobia) of winning that particular match.

As for people calling Hewitt a grinder it is a difficult thing because Hewitt possesses many of the qualities which you might look for in a good grinder type player however he also has other qualities which set him apart from grinders. you could justifiably call him a "grinder and then some".

napki
11-15-2005, 10:14 PM
I saw a few places where people talked about someone tanking during the match. :confused: Hmm, and it's usually accompanied by being bagelled :p

So just to be sure that i know what i'm talking about when i say somebody tanked, is it a mental problem as with choking or just a shitty attitude toward the game? Or something else to blame the bagel on?

Sorry but i don't have an example, talks about choking are much more popular those days. :)

91civic_VT
11-15-2005, 10:29 PM
Some good stuff in this thread!

What about moonballers and ballbashers?

mandoura
11-15-2005, 11:08 PM
Another question:

What is the meaning of the word "drive" in drive-volley, forehand-drive and backhand-drive?

Does it mean taking the ball before it bounces or taking it while moving forward?

mandoura
11-15-2005, 11:23 PM
Not to worry, I think Mrs. Robinson was even older.

Then, I'd rather be Liv Ullmann in 40 carats. It's more accurate. :p

cobalt60
11-15-2005, 11:27 PM
Then, I'd rather be Liv Ullmann in 40 carats. It's more accurate. :p
:lol:

As far as "tanking" goes- I have always thought it referred to a player who loses the match on purpose by giving up. As in " get me off this court; I have better things to do."

PaulieM
11-15-2005, 11:28 PM
I saw a few places where people talked about someone tanking during the match. :confused: Hmm, and it's usually accompanied by being bagelled :p

So just to be sure that i know what i'm talking about when i say somebody tanked, is it a mental problem as with choking or just a shitty attitude toward the game? Or something else to blame the bagel on?

Sorry but i don't have an example, talks about choking are much more popular those days. :)
i think of tanking as when you knowingly don't put any effort into a match thus playing well below your abilities, either because it's not important to you for one reason or another and you'd rather save your energy or because things are going badly and you just decide to give up.

mandoura
11-16-2005, 12:12 AM
:lol:

As far as "tanking" goes- I have always thought it referred to a player who loses the match on purpose by giving up. As in " get me off this court; I have better things to do."

:wavey: Sue.

Yes, that's my understanding too.

soraya
11-16-2005, 01:04 AM
thanks mandoura, great thread and thanks for Ron E. I am learning,English/American tennis terminology as well.

stebs
11-16-2005, 02:35 PM
Another question:

What is the meaning of the word "drive" in drive-volley, forehand-drive and backhand-drive?

Does it mean taking the ball before it bounces or taking it while moving forward?

drive is a shot where you come through the ball flat and hard and the ball goes low over the net usually. Also it is usually a shot intended to put you in control of that point or win it.

mandoura
11-16-2005, 04:50 PM
^ Thanks.

What are the different types of serves, like a slice serve, a kick serve, ... ?

stebs
11-16-2005, 09:45 PM
^ Thanks.

What are the different types of serves, like a slice serve, a kick serve, ... ?


I'd have though slice serve was pretty self explanatory if you know what slice is. Slice is where you hit the ball so that it spins backwards. For a serve slice is usually what a serve with sidespin on it is called. most "slice serves" have more sidespin than slic with the hope they will stay low and curve away from the reciever.

Kick serve is a serve which has topsin on it. top spin is where the ball is hit so that it spins forwards and when it lands it seems to jum up and forwards at you. a kick serve is usually a second serve which is intended to either go into the body of the opposition or out wide so that it is hard to reach although it is sometimes used down the line.

Both of these serves are more common on the second serve as they dont generate the pace a flat (no spin) serve does and are less likely to win the point outright.

for examples of these. Federer has a phenomenal kick on his serve and many of the weaker servers tend to use slice for their second serves. For example Andy Murray uses heavy slice. kick is also more often used by shorter servers like Agassi for instance so that they can get the ball high like the taller guys.

Federerthebest
11-17-2005, 03:33 AM
What about moonballers

Moonballer is someone who hits the ball very high with a lot of topspin and not that much pace...a lot of clay players in 70s were like this. Some say Nadal is moonballer because he hits ball with so much topspin...

mandoura
11-17-2005, 04:00 AM
Thanks stebs. Yes, slice-serve is self-explanatory but to tell you the truth, I thought it was the same as a kick serve :lol:. Is/are there other types of serves besides the kick, slice and flat?

RonE
11-17-2005, 02:12 PM
Thanks stebs. Yes, slice-serve is self-explanatory but to tell you the truth, I thought it was the same as a kick serve :lol:. Is/are there other types of serves besides the kick, slice and flat?

That pretty much covers it- each one was explained very well already, but on some serves you can have combination of such serves.

For instance a sliding serve out wide can have slice and kick on it, draggin the opponent out wide (usually the deuce court if you're a right or ad court if you're a lefty) and then bouncing up as well as away.

Some down the T serves (to ad court if righty, deuce court if lefty) can be hit hard using a combination of flat and a little slice to make the ball veer away after it has made contact with the court.

mandoura
11-18-2005, 02:22 PM
^ Thanks RonE.

So, is there a special term for taking the ball directly before it bounces?

stebs
11-18-2005, 02:48 PM
^ Thanks RonE.

So, is there a special term for taking the ball directly before it bounces?

yep. taking the ball before it bounces is called a volley but there are several types.

a regular volley is usually when a player has come to the net and is...well...volleying the ball.

But there is also the drive volley where a player hits a ball like a ground stroke but before it bounces. he comes through the ball and this shot is usually played when a player is comeing into then net but is not there yet and has a relatively high ball in the midcourt to deal with.

I expect everyone knows what a smash is but just in case. A smash is when you hit a ball which is over your head. with force and usually downwards.

There is also a half volley which is not a volley at all as the ball bounces. This is when you hit the ball an instant after it bounces.

mandoura
11-18-2005, 03:05 PM
yep. taking the ball before it bounces is called a volley but there are several types.

a regular volley is usually when a player has come to the net and is...well...volleying the ball.

But there is also the drive volley where a player hits a ball like a ground stroke but before it bounces. he comes through the ball and this shot is usually played when a player is comeing into then net but is not there yet and has a relatively high ball in the midcourt to deal with.

It was the drive volley that confused me :) . I though any ball taken after the service line without bouncing was called a drive something. Thanks for the explanation.

I expect everyone knows what a smash is but just in case. A smash is when you hit a ball which is over your head. with force and usually downwards.

Is there a difference between a smash and an overhead? Is it the force with which it is played?

There is also a half volley which is not a volley at all as the ball bounces. This is when you hit the ball an instant after it bounces.

And what would be a stop volley? Just putting your racket under the ball to stop it and send it over the net?

Thanks stebs and RonE. Your input is really appreciated. :)

PaulieM
11-18-2005, 03:08 PM
But there is also the drive volley where a player hits a ball like a ground stroke but before it bounces. he comes through the ball and this shot is usually played when a player is comeing into then net but is not there yet and has a relatively high ball in the midcourt to deal with.

It was the drive volley that confused me :) . I though any ball taken after the service line without bouncing was called a drive something. Thanks for the explanation.

that's the same as a swinging volley or am i confused?

Angle Queen
11-18-2005, 04:12 PM
that's the same as a swinging volley or am i confused?yep, paulie...I'd be inclined to call what Mando described as a swinging volley -- taking a full swing at the ball, usually around mid-court...and usually because you're coming in (to net).

In general, I think the WTA uses that shot a lot more than the men. I'm not really a fan of either Williams sister...but both of them have excellent swing volleys.

Angle Queen
11-18-2005, 04:21 PM
I expect everyone knows what a smash is but just in case. A smash is when you hit a ball which is over your head. with force and usually downwards.

Is there a difference between a smash and an overhead? Is it the force with which it is played?

There is also a half volley which is not a volley at all as the ball bounces. This is when you hit the ball an instant after it bounces.

And what would be a stop volley? Just putting your racket under the ball to stop it and send it over the net?Smash = overhead. One is more slang (smash)...and sometimes you even hear them together...a smash overhead. ;)

A "stop" volley...IMHO...is more like a "drop" volley...as it 'stops' as soon as it hits the court...on your opponent's side. I've heard that the mark of a good drop shot or drop volley is that it will/would bounce three times...inside the service box.

The so-called half-volley stebs is referring to...like mentioned, isn't really a volley at all...in the sense that the ball has bounced on 'your' side of the court. It's more like a shot that's been 'scooped' up off the surface. It's generally hit around mid-court and is usually necessitated because you are coming in. Serve-n-volleyers, like Dent and Henman, hit a lot of them. They're difficult to direct and generally you're just hoping to get the ball back in play so you can move even closer to the net and close out the point with a true/fully volley on the next shot.

mandoura
11-19-2005, 11:35 AM
yep, paulie...I'd be inclined to call what Mando described as a swinging volley -- taking a full swing at the ball, usually around mid-court...and usually because you're coming in (to net).

In general, I think the WTA uses that shot a lot more than the men. I'm not really a fan of either Williams sister...but both of them have excellent swing volleys.

Yes Marlo, absolutely. I like Mauresmo's too. :)

mandoura
11-19-2005, 11:40 AM
Smash = overhead. One is more slang (smash)...and sometimes you even hear them together...a smash overhead. ;)

OK.

A "stop" volley...IMHO...is more like a "drop" volley...as it 'stops' as soon as it hits the court...on your opponent's side. I've heard that the mark of a good drop shot or drop volley is that it will/would bounce three times...inside the service box.

My understanding too. I will add something I've heard about a good drop-shot/volley besides yours that it will not reach the service line. I guess this is what you meant by inside the service box :) .

The so-called half-volley stebs is referring to...like mentioned, isn't really a volley at all...in the sense that the ball has bounced on 'your' side of the court. It's more like a shot that's been 'scooped' up off the surface. It's generally hit around mid-court and is usually necessitated because you are coming in. Serve-n-volleyers, like Dent and Henman, hit a lot of them. They're difficult to direct and generally you're just hoping to get the ball back in play so you can move even closer to the net and close out the point with a true/fully volley on the next shot.

Thanks Marlo. Mentionning Henman made it very clear. ;)

stebs
01-21-2006, 04:13 PM
Thought I'd bump this thread because I think it is a great thread and I also have something to add to it.

Earlier it was asked what "tanking" is and somebody else (credit to whoever that may be) answered that it was giving up a match. I would agree with this answer in a way but I would also like to add to that definition that "tanking" can apply to just one set. This happens probably more often than players tanking whole matches.

An example of this tanking is in wimbledon 2005 where Murray was tired and tanked the third set against Nalbandian, unfortunately in this match the tactic did not work and he lost it in five. Marat Safin is often accused of tanking sets and sometimes even matches. (dont worry Marat, we love you anyway)

Someone asked what a "ballbasher" is. Basically a ballbasher is a plyer who hits the ball extremely hard. A ballbasher may hit the ball hard but it is easy to mistake this power for pace. Pace is the speed at which the ball travles which is usually effected by spin as well as how hard the ball is hit. For example Roger Federer hits the ball with tremendous pace but not with great power so he is not a ballbasher. Fernando Gonzalez is a very good example of a ballbasher. I personally find this type of player very exiting as they hit many winners although they come at a cost.

I will also add two terms to the tennis vocabulary thread. For anyone who doesn't know a "breadstick" set is a set which is won/lost by a scoreline of 6 games to 1. A "bagel" set is a set which is won/lost by a scoreline of 6 games to 0.

Tennis Fool
02-01-2006, 01:31 AM
What is a "bagel"?

bagel [source:TK]
context and source: Overheard comments at tennis tournaments similar to the effect of "Yeah, I got bageled by the number one seed in the tournament in about 30 minutes."
composed of: name of common circular pastry
apparent meaning: to be held scoreless
type of word formation: zero-derivation
reason used: Most tennis tournaments are held over the course of a weekend and require players to play multiple matches in a day. At tournaments bagels are commonly eaten by players because they are as a quick, long-lasting energy food that won't upset their stomachs, which is important when having to play multiple times. Because of this, tennis players are familiar with bagels, and their circular shape lend themselves readily to the analogy of getting held scoreless, or zeroed, or bageled.
dictionary entry: bagel - v. to hold an opponent to a score of zero, especially in a game or competition. ('The top seed in the tournament easily bageled his first round opponent.') [zero-derivation; formed from the noun 'bagel' describing the pastry]
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Tennis Fool
02-01-2006, 01:32 AM
A set of tennis which is won 6-0 without dropping a single point is called a Golden Set.

Only one player in the history of professional tennis has ever achieved this, Bill Scanlon (USA). It was against Marcos Hocevar (Brazil) in the first round of the WCT Gold Coast Classic at Del Ray (Florida, USA) on 22 February 1983. Bill Scanlon won the match 6-2, 6-0.

Winning a best of 3 game in 2 sets (2-0) or a best of 5 game in 3 sets (3-0) is called winning in straight sets. This doesn't have to be 6-0, 6-0, 6-0, a 7-5, 6-4, 6-4 win i.e. is also considered a win in straight sets.

--answerbag.com
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Tennis Fool
02-01-2006, 01:32 AM
"Love" is generally taken as being derived from the French "l"oeuf", the egg, symbolising nothing. The term "love" can also be said to come from the English phrase "neither for love nor for money", indicating nothing.
--answerbag.com

mandoura
02-01-2006, 07:24 PM
Thank you guys for bumping the thread. :)

TF, my son won a Golden Set last year :lol:. Actually, if it wasn't for one double fault, he would have won 2 Golden sets :lol:. He played a guy (U14) who used to play but stopped for a while and came back thinking he would pick where he left. The guy stood at the service line to receive the serves. More than once the ball passed between his legs. At first, it was really funny but then, it started to become really humiliating and my son didn't know what to do. That's when he double faulted for lack of concentration but he went for it and decided he will win every point. :D

Now, I was under the impression that "White Wash" described a match won 6-0 6-0 not just one set. Some commentators use this term when just one set is won 6-0. So what is more correct?

stebs
02-01-2006, 08:32 PM
Thank you guys for bumping the thread. :)

TF, my son won a Golden Set last year :lol:. Actually, if it wasn't for one double fault, he would have won 2 Golden sets :lol:. He played a guy (U14) who used to play but stopped for a while and came back thinking he would pick where he left. The guy stood at the service line to receive the serves. More than once the ball passed between his legs. At first, it was really funny but then, it started to become really humiliating and my son didn't know what to do. That's when he double faulted for lack of concentration but he went for it and decided he will win every point. :D

Now, I was under the impression that "White Wash" described a match won 6-0 6-0 not just one set. Some commentators use this term when just one set is won 6-0. So what is more correct?

White Wash is a tricky one. It can be used to refer to any amount of games/sets/points or whatever. You could say that was a whitewash and be refering to a 6/4 6/4 6/4 victory or you could say it in reference to a single 6-0 set.

mongo
02-01-2006, 08:52 PM
White Wash is a tricky one. It can be used to refer to any amount of games/sets/points or whatever. You could say that was a whitewash and be refering to a 6/4 6/4 6/4 victory or you could say it in reference to a single 6-0 set.
I suppose it depends on which country the commentator is from. Americans consider a whitewash to be equivalent to a thrashing. 6-2 6-2 6-1 would be considered a whitewash in the States. Certainly not one break per set--the commentator might even spin that as "a competive match."

stebs
02-01-2006, 08:56 PM
I suppose it depends on which country the commentator is from. Americans consider a whitewash to be equivalent to a thrashing. 6-2 6-2 6-1 would be considered a whitewash in the States. Certainly not one break per set--the commentator might even spin that as "a competive match."

I see, that is extremely strange. The reason a whitewash could be used for three 6/4 sets is because that would make the set score 3-0. A whitewash means one of the guys had 0 score.

mongo
02-01-2006, 09:19 PM
P-Mac and BG

bagel (discussed): zero in the 6-0

breadstick: one in the 6-1

beatdown: no contest; quick, decisive match

trunk slammer: frustrating, decisive loss ("throw your racquets in the trunk of your car and slam the trunk")

Hell-o!: ripping a winner on a return of serve or from a disadvatagous position on the court

dropper!: winner off a drop shot

eye-dropper!: such a perfect dropshot that the opponent can only drop his head and close his eyes

case of the yips: getting nervous while serving

...that's all I can think of for now.

lilfairyprincess
02-01-2006, 10:53 PM
:wavey: Hey guys was wondering if i cud ask a question too?

I noticed people in this thread and comentators refer to the deuce and ad courts? I was just wondering what side each of these are and why they are named that?

Thanks :hug:

mandoura
02-01-2006, 11:26 PM
:wavey: Hey guys was wondering if i cud ask a question too?

I noticed people in this thread and comentators refer to the deuce and ad courts? I was just wondering what side each of these are and why they are named that?

Thanks :hug:

Yes, that puzzled me for a long time until it dawned on me while I was watching one of my son's matches and I asked for the score. I thought it was deuce but someone told me it can't be otherwise the one serving will be standing on the other side.

For a right handed player, the deuce court will be the part of the court where the game is started and while the player is serving, the doubles line will be on his right (it's the side from which a deuce point is played). The Ad court will be the part of the court where, while the player is serving, the doubles line will be on his left (it's the side from which an advantage point is played). Hope it's clear :scratch: :) .

lilfairyprincess
02-01-2006, 11:28 PM
thank you so much..i totally understand now :)

i love this thread..thank you for starting it :worship:

mandoura
02-01-2006, 11:30 PM
White Wash is a tricky one. It can be used to refer to any amount of games/sets/points or whatever. You could say that was a whitewash and be refering to a 6/4 6/4 6/4 victory or you could say it in reference to a single 6-0 set.

So is there an expression specifically for a 6-0/6-0 win?

mandoura
02-01-2006, 11:34 PM
thank you so much..i totally understand now :)

i love this thread..thank you for starting it :worship:

:hug: Anytime princess.

I started this thread because most commentators I watch speak English (sometimes I watch French comentators). There were some terms I did not understand and it frustrated me. Thanks to knowledgeable MTFers, like stebs, mongo, TF, Ron, AQ and others who were kind enough to post here, it's getting easier to understand the commentators. :)

lilfairyprincess
02-01-2006, 11:40 PM
dont forget to include yourself in that list :p ..you're knowledgable too, afterall all, you were the one who helped me out ;)

stebs
02-03-2006, 11:23 PM
So is there an expression specifically for a 6-0/6-0 win?

Most would call it a double bagel as a bagel is one 6-0 set. Some might call it glasses or a bicycle. Anything which looks like 2 O's really :wavey:

mandoura
02-26-2006, 02:11 PM
A silly question:

What is meant by hitting the ball "clean"? I hear it a lot by commentators about the way Davenport hits the ball, so what does it really mean and how can a spectator notice it?

NATAS81
02-26-2006, 02:21 PM
I'm pretty sure it means hitting it squarely in the sweet spot for maximum control and spin.

They say Agassi hits one of the cleanest balls on tour. :yeah:

stebs
02-26-2006, 07:51 PM
A silly question:

What is meant by hitting the ball "clean"? I hear it a lot by commentators about the way Davenport hits the ball, so what does it really mean and how can a spectator notice it?

What NATAS81 said really. It is just hitting the ball in the sweet spot with the intended power, the intended spin and basically doing exactly what you intended to do with the shot.

I has never heard of golden set before. Interesting to see, Federer nearly did it to Hewitt in the US Open the other year. I think Hewitt only won 4 points. :eek:

World Beater
02-26-2006, 07:57 PM
What NATAS81 said really. It is just hitting the ball in the sweet spot with the intended power, the intended spin and basically doing exactly what you intended to do with the shot.

I has never heard of golden set before. Interesting to see, Federer nearly did it to Hewitt in the US Open the other year. I think Hewitt only won 4 points. :eek:

actually i always thought it meant hitting the ball flat rather than with spin...andre doenst hit with much spin anymore.

you will never see people say nadal hits a clean ball. he hits it with so much junk, by brushing the frame across and up rather than straight and through.

federer also does not hit a clean ball but likes to brush it. nalbandian hits a very clean ball as well.

stebs
02-26-2006, 07:59 PM
actually i always thought it meant hitting the ball flat rather than with spin...andre doenst hit with much spin anymore.

you will never see people say nadal hits a clean ball. he hits it with so much junk, by brushing the frame across and up rather than straight and through.

federer also does not hit a clean ball but likes to brush it. nalbandian hits a very clean ball as well.

Clean ball is still what I said but players who hit with less topspin usually do hit cleaner balls because it is easier when hitting with less spin to hit the sweet spot of the racquet.

Davenport hits with considerable spin but she hits a clean ball. But this is not very common, it is rare for a player to be able to such a thing which is one reason why Davenport is given so much credit for her talent. :wavey:

mandoura
02-27-2006, 12:16 AM
Clean ball is still what I said but players who hit with less topspin usually do hit cleaner balls because it is easier when hitting with less spin to hit the sweet spot of the racquet.

Davenport hits with considerable spin but she hits a clean ball. :wavey:

Now I am confused. :eek: :D

stebs
04-09-2006, 08:52 PM
Time for a revival of the thread.

"Clutch" - This means playing your best at the important moments. For example if someone served an ace while at 5-5 30-40 in the fifth set of a match would be very clutch.

mandoura
04-15-2006, 12:21 AM
What are "floaters"?

Fisico
04-15-2006, 12:27 AM
floaters are dangerous unseeded players. kinda like ivo karlovic at wimbledon

mandoura
04-15-2006, 03:51 PM
^ Thanks.

mandoura
04-15-2006, 03:53 PM
Time for a revival of the thread.

"Clutch" - This means playing your best at the important moments. For example if someone served an ace while at 5-5 30-40 in the fifth set of a match would be very clutch.

So, clutch is basically the opposite of choke?

mandoura
04-15-2006, 03:55 PM
I don't remember if I asked about this before: thread tension !!!

A higher tension, will provide more power or more control?

stebs
04-15-2006, 04:00 PM
So, clutch is basically the opposite of choke?
Pretty much yeah. Being 'clutch' is very often a quality which the best champions have. If only Rogi could be clutch like normal when he plays Rafa :sad:

mandoura
04-15-2006, 04:10 PM
Pretty much yeah. Being 'clutch' is very often a quality which the best champions have. If only Rogi could be clutch like normal when he plays Rafa :sad:

Thanks steb. I really appreciate your input to the thread. :worship:

stebs
04-15-2006, 04:24 PM
Thanks steb. I really appreciate your input to the thread. :worship:
Although I'm afriad I can't tell you anything about racquet tension :( Sorry.

mandoura
04-15-2006, 04:31 PM
^ It's OK. It's not really a "technical" question. :)

napki
05-15-2006, 03:38 AM
I have a question, if anyone knows what is an inside-out shot? Like if someone says "Nadal can move his opponent with his inside-out forehand," what excactly does it mean?

Thanks! :)

mandoura
06-10-2006, 03:47 PM
I have a question, if anyone knows what is an inside-out shot? Like if someone says "Nadal can move his opponent with his inside-out forehand," what excactly does it mean?

Thanks! :)

I think, but I am not sure, it's when the player is standing in the middle of the court, let's say at the serving spot, and instead of going crosscourt, to his left for a right-handed or to his right for a left-handed, with his forehand he goes the other way. :)

scoobs
06-10-2006, 03:50 PM
An inside out shot is a shot where the ball ends up heading in the opposite direction to the movement of the racquet.

So if you do an inside out forehand, as a right hander, the racquet will start on your right side and move round your front to your left side as you follow through the stroke. But the ball will not follow the same path - it will not start on your right and go crosscourt to end up on your left hand side on the other side of the net - instead it will go off at an angle away from the racquet so that it lands still on your right side on the other side of the court.

Hard to describe without a diagram really :)

supersexynadal
06-10-2006, 04:02 PM
Maybe u can explain it using the letter v. The player is in the vertex of the V and hits the forehand in the direction of the right dash. Like this-The player is the dot
Heres my diagram! >>> ./ OK good enough??!!!The line is the direction the ball is going. For nadal is>> \.

mandoura
06-10-2006, 04:06 PM
An inside out shot is a shot where the ball ends up heading in the opposite direction to the movement of the racquet.

So if you do an inside out forehand, as a right hander, the racquet will start on your right side and move round your front to your left side as you follow through the stroke. But the ball will not follow the same path - it will not start on your right and go crosscourt to end up on your left hand side on the other side of the net - instead it will go off at an angle away from the racquet so that it lands still on your right side on the other side of the court.

Hard to describe without a diagram really :)

I was thinking the same thing. :)

mandoura
06-10-2006, 04:08 PM
Maybe u can explain it using the letter v. The player is in the vertex of the V and hits the forehand in the direction of the right dash. Like this-The player is the dot
Heres my diagram! >>> ./ OK good enough??!!!The line is the direction the ball is going. For nadal is>> \.

:yeah:. You're a smart cookie. :D

scoobs
06-10-2006, 04:10 PM
Yeah that diagram works - thanks supersexynadal :)

mandoura
06-10-2006, 04:12 PM
Here's a question that's been puzzling me for some time. If the answer turns out to be obvious, I'll shoot myself :p .

Does anyone know how the stastics for break points are calculated?

For example, if a player is up 15-40 and wins the game, will the statistics be 1/2 (50%) or 1/1 (100%) because he took the first break point? :scratch:

Edit to add: and he actually did not lose any break points.

scoobs
06-10-2006, 04:14 PM
I think it's the second, Mandoura - I think it's the number of break points played, not those played AND in hand...

mandoura
06-10-2006, 04:25 PM
I think it's the second, Mandoura - I think it's the number of break points played, not those played AND in hand...

Thanks Scoob. :)

cobalt60
03-03-2008, 12:18 PM
BUMP!
Excellent thread started by the incomparable Mandoura :worship: to aquaint new folks and to re-aquaint myself to terminology :yeah:

Or Levy
03-03-2008, 12:27 PM
Just looking at this page I've learned something new about the inside out forehand. Nice bump.

cobalt60
03-03-2008, 12:45 PM
^^ Honestly I felt that GM needed to talk about tennis a bit more :p
This is a really nice thread :yeah:

Sunset of Age
03-03-2008, 01:23 PM
Interesting thread, thanks for the bump Sue!

Farenhajt
03-03-2008, 02:30 PM
This really is an excellent thread, which deserves to be kept alive (perhaps even made sticky).

Since some technicalities have already been discussed, and the word "Vocabulary" is mentioned in the title, I think it might be interesting to build a multi-language glossary of tennis terms, if only for reference. Therefore I compiled some basic terms in english and gave their serbian translation. Anyone interested can of course extend the original list, as well as give the translations into their native language.

1. Ace - as
2. Advantage - prednost
3. Backhand - bekhend
4. Bagel - krompir (literally: potato)
5. Ball - lopta
6. Baseline - osnovna linija
7. Break - brejk
8. Break point - brejk lopta
9. Court - teren
10. Crosscourt - dijagonala
11. Dead net cord - krmača (literally: a sow)
12. Deuce - izjednačenje
13. Double fault - dvostruka/dupla (servis) greška
14. Down the line - paralela
15. Drop shot - dropšot, skraćena lopta
16. First service - prvi servis
17. Foot fault - prestup
18. Forced error - iznuđena greška
19. Forehand - forhend
20. Game - gem
21. Game point - gem lopta
22. Grand Slam - veliki slem
23. Groundstroke - osnovni udarac
24. Half volley - poluvolej
25. Kick - kik
26. Love - ništa (literally: nothing)
27. Match - meč
28. Match point - meč lopta
29. Net - mreža
30. New balls - nove lopte
31. Overhead - smeč
32. Point - poen
33. Racquet - reket
34. Rally - razmena udaraca
35. Second service - drugi servis
36. Service - servis
37. Set point - set lopta
38. Slice - slajs
39. Smash - smeč
40. Spin - spin
41. Tiebreak - taj-brejk
42. Touch - pecanje (literally: "fishing" or "getting hooked")
43. Umpire - glavni sudija
44. Unforced error - neiznuđena greška
45. Volley - volej
---
46. fifteen - petnaest
47. thirty - trideset
48. forty - četrdeset