How bad exactly is this TMC...? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

How bad exactly is this TMC...?

Rogiman
11-14-2005, 02:21 PM
Red group:world # 1,6,8 and 11. Average ranking: 6.5

Gold Group: world #7,9,12 and 13. Average ranking: 10.25 (!!)

Overall average ranking: 8.375

And this is at a tournament that's supposed to host the top 8...

liptea
11-14-2005, 02:23 PM
8.375 kinda rounds to eight. If that helps at all.

JuchuPati
11-14-2005, 02:25 PM
yeah, this year is a shit. a big joke :o

hitchhiker
11-14-2005, 02:25 PM
mao zedong is turning in his grave

DJ dropshot
11-14-2005, 02:26 PM
The news reports are sounding like "A Partridge in a Pear Tree" citing previous withdrawals when announcing new withdrawals. I guess Safin is the Partridge.

Socket
11-14-2005, 02:26 PM
I'm sure glad I don't have tickets to this event.

Can you imagine how bad it would be if Federer weren't playing? They might have to give the tickets away.

gillian
11-14-2005, 02:29 PM
It's pretty depressing.

JuchuPati
11-14-2005, 02:29 PM
mao zedong is turning in his grave


jaaaaaaaaajajaja :haha: i doubt he would like all this tennis stuff there

TheBoiledEgg
11-14-2005, 02:31 PM
almost as funny as Alberto Berasategui's attempts in 1994 group matches :rolls:
and he got the easy group too.

Tennis Fool
11-14-2005, 02:37 PM
Is this the most withdrawals ever :confused:

Houston, we have a problem :silly:

$@M
11-14-2005, 02:40 PM
Clear path to the finals for Ljuby and Federer now... dun see anyone else who can challenge these two... :yeah:

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 02:41 PM
Houston, we have a problem :silly:

Lets just say Shanghai we have a problem,
because Matress Mc might think you are calling on him in Houston

Tennis Fool
11-14-2005, 02:48 PM
Lets just say Shanghai we have a problem,
because Matress Mc might think you are calling on him in Houston
I'm glad you caught my subliminal line of thinking ;) Sort of :D

vincayou
11-14-2005, 02:49 PM
And imagine if Fed had retired as well. Who would have they called by the way?

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 02:52 PM
Tojo is next in line
Theyshould definitely have him fly in and standby because I don't trust this bunch of players to be in great health eithe

celia
11-14-2005, 03:06 PM
i feel terrible for the city and peple of Shanghai who put so much into this. for what? it's truly embarassing. and unprofessional.

Horatio Caine
11-14-2005, 03:18 PM
Okay, you say it is bad, but I would still pay good money to see Gonzo and Puerta, especially after the year those two have had. :shrug:

vincayou
11-14-2005, 03:20 PM
I feel bad for Ljubicic in a sense, because for the first time he manages to qualify for it and it turns out to be a masters with an asterisk.

Anyway, the money he will earn should help him to forget this.

Horatio Caine
11-14-2005, 03:22 PM
I feel bad for Ljubicic in a sense, because for the first time he manages to qualify for it and it turns out to be a masters with an asterisk.

Anyway, the money he will earn should help him to forget this.

Well he will likely have to beat Fed at least once to win...

NYCtennisfan
11-14-2005, 03:25 PM
almost as funny as Alberto Berasategui's attempts in 1994 group matches
and he got the easy group too.

That was just brutal, with Chang, Agassi, AND Bruguera destroying him.

This tournament is hanging on the Federer right now who is quite popular in Asia. If he decides to drop out which he has even more reason to now, this would just be a total disgrace of a tournament.

Jimnik
11-14-2005, 03:27 PM
I don't think selling tickets is a problem. I would pay to see any top 20 player.

TV viewing figures will be the biggest problem.

ys
11-14-2005, 03:27 PM
I feel bad for Ljubicic in a sense, because for the first time he manages to qualify for it and it turns out to be a masters with an asterisk.

I feel bad for him that he never made it to the second week of Slam. And this shitty meaningless tourney? If anything he is lucky.. He'll make more money and earn more ranking points than he'd have done otherwise if likes of Safin,Hewitt and Roddick were fit and playing..

I am sure he and Davydenko are not missing missing stars..

Jimnik
11-14-2005, 03:28 PM
So... 5 down, 4 to go for Juan Carlos to qualify. I'm still hoping...

Guybrush
11-14-2005, 03:35 PM
I feel bad for him that he never made it to the second week of Slam. And this shitty meaningless tourney? If anything he is lucky.. He'll make more money and earn more ranking points than he'd have done otherwise if likes of Safin,Hewitt and Roddick were fit and playing..

I am sure he and Davydenko are not missing missing stars..

Ljubicic in this form is better then Hewitt and Roddick, and I'm sure he would beat them!

For Marat I cannot say the same :D

ys
11-14-2005, 03:41 PM
Ljubicic in this form is better then Hewitt and Roddick, and I'm sure he would beat them!

Then why does not he?

Horatio Caine
11-14-2005, 03:44 PM
So... 5 down, 4 to go for Juan Carlos to qualify. I'm still hoping...

...and another 20 odd for the Brits ;) :devil:

Guybrush
11-14-2005, 03:47 PM
Then why does not he?

What? :confused:

ys
11-14-2005, 03:49 PM
What? :confused:

Why does not he beat them when it matters?

Tennis Fool
11-14-2005, 03:54 PM
This tournament is hanging on the Federer right now who is quite popular in Asia. If he decides to drop out which he has even more reason to now, this would just be a total disgrace of a tournament.
Although I think it would be out of his character to drop out now, even if he was playing on one toe. He seems to have the kind of personality to asses the situation and try to give the people what they want. Go Feds :cool:

$@M
11-14-2005, 03:55 PM
I think Ferrer is next in line...

so are they gonna call him over in case Rogi decides to pull out after he lost to Ljube like how AA did? :lol:

Guybrush
11-14-2005, 03:56 PM
Why does not he beat them when it matters?

He has beaten Roddick both times they played this season (the 2nd 10 days ago)...

ys
11-14-2005, 03:58 PM
He has beaten Roddick both times they played this season (the 2nd 10 days ago)...

I told "when it matters", meaning - "at Slams".. So far he is simply a pussy who can't play real men's best-of-five tennis day in day out..

Guybrush
11-14-2005, 04:02 PM
I told "when it matters", meaning - "at Slams".. So far he is simply a pussy who can't play real men's best-of-five tennis day in day out..

1. I've said the in this form he would beat them. He was never been in this form so your argument is not valid.

2. The DC match between Ivan and Andy doesn't metter?! That match is the reason why Croatia is in the DC final!

Go Ivan, win the TMC! :worship: :worship: :worship:

Truc
11-14-2005, 04:05 PM
I feel bad for Ljubicic in a sense, because for the first time he manages to qualify for it and it turns out to be a masters with an asterisk.Ljubicic didn't directly qualify, he entered the tournament because of Safin withdrawal. Why should we feel bad for him? He's rather lucky to play there.

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 04:07 PM
I think Ferrer is next in line...

so are they gonna call him over in case Rogi decides to pull out after he lost to Ljube like how AA did? :lol:

Tojo next in line not Ferrer
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/entrysystem/

Jimnik
11-14-2005, 04:09 PM
Forget Tojo and Ferrer. Get JC to play.

Guybrush
11-14-2005, 04:11 PM
Ljubicic didn't directly qualify, he entered the tournament because of Safin withdrawal. Why should we feel bad for him? He's rather lucky to play there.

He was in 8th position before the TMC start, so he's partecipaiting is earned. Marat would take his place only because the stupid rule that the GS winner gets in no matter of his position (Marat was behind Ivan).

And yeah, I've also said that this rule is stupid in 2001 when Goran Ivanisevic played the Masters.

Horatio Caine
11-14-2005, 04:14 PM
Aren't the players paid a fee to make the trip over there?...in which case the organisation body must be paying out a crapload to those 11 players that have actually touched down in Shanghai...in fact make it 10 because presumabely Nadal doesn't get playing appearance fees, just press fees.

But if Ferrer is asked to fly over...even more money to shell out? :shrug:

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 04:15 PM
He was in 8th position before the TMC start, so he's partecipaiting is earned. Marat would take his place only because the stupid rule that the GS winner gets in no matter of his position (Marat was behind Ivan).

And yeah, I've also said that this rule is stupid in 2001 when Goran Ivanisevic played the Masters.

I undestand what you say, but the rules are that the one who "earn" or "qualify" for T.M.C are the 7 top players + GS winner out of the top 8.
Not 8 top players. Whether it is stupid or not, the #8 player is not earned his way in automatic according to the rules

So that is what the prevoius poster is saying, is that according to the qualifying rules 8th player (this year ivan) is not qualified automatically

ys
11-14-2005, 04:16 PM
2. The DC match between Ivan and Andy doesn't metter?! That match is the reason why Croatia is in the DC final!

All top players try to peak at Slams.. DC match was played exactly in the middle of two Slams.. No true Slam contenders are trying to be in their best form at that point.. For a journeyman like Ljubicic that's exactly the right time to peak so he can earn some points and some money while the best are not at their best. Cause he can't do it at Slams anyway.. At Slams he is useless, but after Slams he can even challenge a subpeak Federer.

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 04:17 PM
Aren't the players paid a fee to make the trip over there?...in which case the organisation body must be paying out a crapload to those 11 players that have actually touched down in Shanghai...in fact make it 10 because presumabely Nadal doesn't get playing appearance fees, just press fees.

But if Ferrer is asked to fly over...even more money to shell out? :shrug:

They are paid guaranteed $100K for showing up (this was last yaer, maybe more now), plus free air, hotel, and the usual. Then, depending on how many matches won, more money.
Winner gets 1.5 mil$, more than in any slam

So by withdrawing now, rather than before, the players who have withdrawn do not pay a fine, get a fee, and make profits!

And it is not Ferer, but Tojo who would fly in as first alternative. Yes, more money for him also now.

alelysafina
11-14-2005, 04:37 PM
He was in 8th position before the TMC start, so he's partecipaiting is earned. Marat would take his place only because the stupid rule that the GS winner gets in no matter of his position (Marat was behind Ivan).

And yeah, I've also said that this rule is stupid in 2001 when Goran Ivanisevic played the Masters.

Marat qualified for the year end Masters after Nadal (in August? September?) way before Ivan was even considered for the TMC.

LaTenista
11-14-2005, 04:38 PM
And it is not Ferer, but Tojo who would fly in as first alternative. Yes, more money for him also now.

I've read a few articles now that have mentioned ToJo has declined to come to Shanghai as an alternate...Ferrer has said yes he will come if needed...I surely hope he's on a plane right now. :tape:

jtipson
11-14-2005, 04:39 PM
Marat qualified for the year end Masters after Nadal (in August? September?) way before Ivan was even considered for the TMC.

But that was due to the slam wildcard. Once they knew that there was nobody else with a slam win who might finish outside the top eight (i.e. after the US Open), then Safin was in. If it had been the top eight players alone, Safin would not have qualified.

tangerine_dream
11-14-2005, 04:40 PM
Nadal, Agassi withdrawals tarnish Masters Cup
By Alastair Himmer

SHANGHAI (Reuters) - Rafael Nadal and Andre Agassi pulled out of the season-ending Masters Cup on Monday, casting a cloud over wins by Gaston Gaudio and Nikolay Davydenko.

World number two Nadal withdrew before his opening group match against Gaudio with an ankle injury while a wincing Agassi was beaten 6-4 6-2 by Davydenko before calling it quits.

The withdrawals were a massive blow to organizers of the $4.45 million Shanghai event following pre-tournament casualties Andy Roddick, Marat Safin and Lleyton Hewitt.

Gaudio beat Nadal's replacement Mariano Puerta 6-3 7-5 to join Russian Davydenko at the top of the Gold Group.

But with French Open champion Nadal and eight-times grand slam winner Agassi out of the frame, world number one Roger Federer's path to a third straight Masters title opened up.

The Swiss won his opening match against Argentina's David Nalbandian on Sunday though he is still recovering from an ankle injury of his own.

"It's just not possible for me to be on court," said a dejected Agassi, who was playing his first match since losing to Federer in the U.S. Open final two months ago.

"It doesn't do anybody any good for me to be out there, except my opponents. The most important thing is it's healthy for next year because this year's over with."

Agassi will be replaced in the Gold Group by Chile's Fernando Gonzalez.

Australian Open champion Safin gave up his place in the eight-man field last month as he continued to struggle with a knee injury.

The Russian was quickly joined on the sidelines by world number three Roddick who was suffering lower back spasms.

PERSONAL REASONS

Twice-champion Hewitt cited personal reasons for his withdrawal -- his wife is expecting a baby -- but he has also been recovering from a groin strain and toe surgery.

Nineteen-year-old Nadal sprained his ankle in winning the Madrid Masters final against Croatia's Ivan Ljubicic in October and sat out the final two weeks of the season with sore knees.

"After Madrid I didn't practice for one week and the next week I was playing one hour...then stopping, not moving," said the Spaniard.

"I came here with that pain. I was very excited to play in my first Masters so for sure I'm very disappointed."

Argentina has profited most from the spate of big-name withdrawals from Shanghai with Gaudio, Nalbandian and Guillermo Coria all drafted in before Puerta's promotion.

Gaudio was unapologetic about the situation after his win over French Open runner-up Puerta.

"I think that's tennis," shrugged the 2004 Roland Garros winner. "Sometimes you are unlucky. You get injured and there's nothing you can do about it.

"My coach told me as soon as I finished the match that Agassi pulled out. I really don't think about it. I have to think about the next match."

Davydenko expressed surprise at Agassi's withdrawal despite the American's obvious distress.

"Today was surprising because Agassi was starting to play well," said the world number seven. "But after the first set he got some problem and didn't want to play anymore.

"He just tried to play fast and lose the match."

----

Next one to fall: Roger, who will reinjure his ankle while playing Ljubicic and then Ivan will end up winning the TMC trophy. My worst TMC nightmare. Make it stop! :scared: :bigcry:

alelysafina
11-14-2005, 04:44 PM
But that was due to the slam wildcard. Once they knew that there was nobody else with a slam win who might finish outside the top eight (i.e. after the US Open), then Safin was in. If it had been the top eight players alone, Safin would not have qualified.

Safin's qualification was announced at the beginning of the US Open, before Roger had won it.

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 05:09 PM
Safin's qualification was announced at the beginning of the US Open, before Roger had won it.

That cannot be. I am not sure where you have read it, but it cannot be true

If someone other than safin, nadal or Roge won the US Open, AND finished outside the top 8 but ahead of safin in the rankings (example: ivan), that person would have automatically qualified, and marat would not have

So before the U.S.O. it was simply not possible to predict that marat was in. Where did you read it?

alelysafina
11-14-2005, 05:59 PM
That cannot be. I am not sure where you have read it, but it cannot be true

If someone other than safin, nadal or Roge won the US Open, AND finished outside the top 8 but ahead of safin in the rankings (example: ivan), that person would have automatically qualified, and marat would not have

So before the U.S.O. it was simply not possible to predict that marat was in. Where did you read it?

That's how I remebered it... I have to got back and check, but I am pretty sure that's how it happened.

alelysafina
11-14-2005, 06:09 PM
Ok, my bad it was after.
That's what I get for not checking the facts first.

El Legenda
11-14-2005, 06:26 PM
Not that bad at all, worlds #1 is still there, and worlds best player in last month is still there. :)

sweetiepiedoll
11-14-2005, 06:39 PM
The TMC is just as bad as the WTA YEC.

TenHound
11-14-2005, 07:49 PM
The rules on qualifying for Year Ends are that Anyone who Wins a Major is Automatically In, Unless they fall out of the Top 20. PMac announced this during RF's match.

No surprise that this tournament is Commerce Not Tennis Competition this yr. Roger should Definitely throw in the towel. He's ~70%. He didn't even think he could beat Nalby...go Home Roger...Everyone else has.....They might as well just hand Ljub the trophy & end it now.

Lucky for espn that they decided not to send a crew over - who the hell will bother watching it :( :(

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 08:00 PM
The rules on qualifying for Year Ends are that Anyone who Wins a Major is Automatically In, Unless they fall out of the Top 20. PMac announced this during RF's match.

No I don't think that is how it is.

It is the Top 7 players, plus the highest ranked grand slam winner who was (a) not in the Top 8, (b) within the top 20, and (c) there is not another grand slam winner outside the Top 8, within the Top 20, who is ahead of him.

So Safin qualified because he is outside Top 7, but within Top 20 and there was no other Slam winner who had the same situation.

If ivan (to take an example) won the U.S.O, and was ranked 11, and safin was ranked 12, only ivan would get that last spot. It is not enough to be a Slam winner and inside the Top 20 and outside Top 8 (but usually it turns out to be like that)

Here: http://www.atptennis.com/en/media/reports/safin_qualifies.pdf

roddick#1tome
11-15-2005, 02:45 AM
did anyone notice how empty the seats were last night? even table tennis, which aired after, had more people

George_Hanson
11-15-2005, 09:10 AM
No.15 in the race is now alternate. That says everything

R.Federer
11-15-2005, 09:24 AM
Anger at Withdrawals


Masters Cup organisers have expressed their disappointment at the spate of withdrawals from the tournament.
Andre Agassi and Rafael Nadal pulled out of the Shanghai event on Monday, joining Andy Roddick, Marat Safin and Lleyton Hewitt on the sidelines.

World number one Roger Federer is the only top-five player left in the event.

"We feel like we bought a Mercedes only to find 60% of the parts are no longer the ones we paid for," said organising committee deputy director Wang Liqun. :(

The high-profile withdrawals have sparked a debate about player burn-out with Agassi calling for a changes to the event schedule.

But Masters Cup tournament director Brad Drewett put the latest round of injuries down to bad luck.

"Both Rafael and Andre being injured in one day is extraordinary," he said. "It's just incredibly unfortunate."

Nadal pulled out before his opening match with a foot injury while Agassi withdrew with a ligament injury after losing to Nikolay Davydenko.

Roddick has an ongoing back problem, Safin has a knee injury and Hewitt is awaiting the birth of his first child.

"The players play harder now than they did 10 or 20 years ago," added Drewett. "But Marat was injured in the middle of the year and Andre went over on his ankle playing racquetball.

"I think everyone would understand Lleyton's situation and with Rafael it's impossible to say what the injury is.

"Is it because of a long season? I don't have the answer to that.

"With the nature of the sport there are going to be injuries. However, we do need to look at addressing some of the issues in terms of schedule."

Story from BBC SPORT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport2/hi/tennis/4437944.stm

hitchhiker
11-15-2005, 09:42 AM
"We feel like we bought a Mercedes only to find 60% of the parts are no longer the ones we paid for," said organising committee deputy director Wang Liqun. :(


They also found drugs in the trunk (Puerta) and the tyres have no grip on the surface (gaudio)

TennisGrandSlam
11-15-2005, 09:43 AM
ATP Race should have revolution

TMC Race points derived should be counted into the next year ATP Race!

ys
11-15-2005, 12:36 PM
"We feel like we bought a Mercedes only to find 60% of the parts are no longer the ones we paid for," said organising committee deputy director Wang Liqun. :(

Now try to buy yourself a Grand Slam.. then you'll get all the bests..

I am kind of almost glad.. Somehow communist China is associated with evil in my mind..

Federerthebest
11-15-2005, 12:42 PM
Tennis needs to break into Asian market and this doesn't help...somehow I'm not sure that many of the people who bought tickets this year will be coming back the next

ys
11-15-2005, 12:56 PM
Tennis needs to break into Asian market and this doesn't help...somehow I'm not sure that many of the people who bought tickets this year will be coming back the next

And that just confirms the rule.. You can not grow the interest to the game without growing the game.. US tennis approach may be bashed all you want, still US have millions of people who play the game , and who feed the game from the grassroots.. How many people play recreational tennis in China? I say.. Unless a country makes an effort to grow a recreational game , like USTA does, their interest to tennis is not worth bothering..

LaTenista
11-15-2005, 02:13 PM
No.15 in the race is now alternate. That says everything

Is Ferrer even in Shanghai yet? The alternate(s) are treated like crap/don't exist until the moment a player withdraws and the alternate actually gets to play a match - that is how bad this TMC is being run. BOO!!! :help:

RonE
11-15-2005, 02:14 PM
Well it's bad but with Roger scraping out yet another really tough victory it's getting a little better.

TheMightyFed
11-15-2005, 03:04 PM
Exactly ? As bad as an indoor tournament filled up with Argentinians and with only one top 5 player... so pretty bad :)