Will the ATP shorten the season after this mess? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Will the ATP shorten the season after this mess?

prima donna
11-14-2005, 01:06 PM
All of these withdraws, I feel bad for the promoters, the YEC have went to the dumps. It's a joke now, unless you fancy hanging around and listening to Roger talk (which I'd be fine with), what is there to see?

Agassi is gone.
Hewitt is gone.
Safin is gone.
Roddick is gone.
Nadal is gone.

:confused:

Aside from Lleyton, whom we can't fault for knocking boots, every other player has fallen victim to injury. If this isn't an outcry for some type of intervention by the tour then I don't know what is. Shorten the season.

TheBoiledEgg
11-14-2005, 01:14 PM
no, its a freak season

they used to play until Mid-December until about 1994 or so.
the Grand Slam Cup which everyone died to play was the last event of the yr, 2 weeks after DC finals.

they never had problems then.

Federerthebest
11-14-2005, 01:19 PM
On the other hand, Davydenko played 29 tournaments and is fine... This year has simply been a freak year for injuries.

amierin
11-14-2005, 01:22 PM
no, its a freak season

they used to play until Mid-December until about 1994 or so.
the Grand Slam Cup which everyone died to play was the last event of the yr, 2 weeks after DC finals.

they never had problems then.

The game has changed a heck of a lot since 1994 even if the people running tennis aren't aware of it. Wooden racquets aren't coming back. Speed and power as well as finesse are what counts now. This type of play produces a lot of wear and tear on the body and that is why the injury count is so high. Despite what Ljubo said I saw Fed/Nalbandian and that surface is fast. I believe he also said you couldn't get any traction on it and that it was closer to grass in how it played. Something does need to be done about the length of the tour.

It's also a shame that Puerta is playing with a cloud over his head and that he has a chance to win this and then face a permanent ban if the rumors are true.

WF4EVER
11-14-2005, 01:26 PM
I don't think the ATP (or the WTA) needs to shorten the season. My problem with the scheduling concerns back to back TMS (IW/Miami and Madrid/Paris) but otherwise I hold the players hugely responsible for their own schedules.

Players are always going to get injured but they also need to allow themselves proper time to heal before returning to the circuit.

case
11-14-2005, 01:31 PM
The season has turned into an endurance test, rather than tennis. The ATP is shooting their own players in the foot!
Shorten the season, the matches -anything at his point! Right now all that the ATP is shortening is the career of its top players.
Second rate players winning year end tournaments is not good for the sport.

TheBoiledEgg
11-14-2005, 01:33 PM
The game has changed a heck of a lot since 1994 even if the people running tennis aren't aware of it. Wooden racquets aren't coming back. Speed and power as well as finesse are what counts now. This type of play produces a lot of wear and tear on the body and that is why the injury count is so high. Despite what Ljubo said I saw Fed/Nalbandian and that surface is fast. I believe he also said you couldn't get any traction on it and that it was closer to grass in how it played. Something does need to be done about the length of the tour.

It's also a shame that Puerta is playing with a cloud over his head and that he has a chance to win this and then face a permanent ban if the rumors are true.

there werent any wooden racquets back in 1994, they went out nearly 20 yrs ago.
serve & volley puts alot more stress on you then any baseline game ever will.

and Puerta couldnt win this event even if there was 7 girls in the tourn.

nobama
11-14-2005, 02:07 PM
Andre hasn't played since the US Open. Fed injured his ankle in practice and called it "bad luck". What does that have to do with the long season? I don't think what happened this year is because the season is too long.

NicoFan
11-14-2005, 02:12 PM
It has everything to do with the long season.

The game has changed so you can't look at what happened even 10 years ago.

The entire tournament is a joke, and when you have a lot of players not playing in the last two masters series events, something is obviously wrong.

And what's wrong is that the season is too long!

prima donna
11-14-2005, 02:13 PM
Andre hasn't played since the US Open. Fed injured his ankle in practice and called it "bad luck". What does that have to do with the long season? I don't think what happened this year is because the season is too long.
Most of these so-called "injuries" were never existent to begin with or completely blown out of proportion, used as a cop-out or a vacationing period. Andre doesn't care about anything aside from Slams at this point in his career, can't waste his time playing much of anything else aside from a warm up tourney or two.

I just don't buy lots of these injuries, with the exception of Safin I doubt the authenticity of the rest.

nobama
11-14-2005, 02:30 PM
Most of these so-called "injuries" were never existent to begin with or completely blown out of proportion, used as a cop-out or a vacationing period. Andre doesn't care about anything aside from Slams at this point in his career, can't waste his time playing much of anything else aside from a warm up tourney or two.

I just don't buy lots of these injuries, with the exception of Safin I doubt the authenticity of the rest.Yeah, I suppose Roger used crutches and is now using an ankle brace just to keep perpetuating the lie that he injured himself. And the 6 weeks off after Wimbledon just wasn't enough vacation.... :rolleyes:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to say as fact these injuries were never existent is bs.....how do any of us really know?

hitchhiker
11-14-2005, 02:32 PM
You think this is a mess? Wait until we have the Croatian basketball team playing the Slovak football team for the davis cup due to injuries.

ToanNguyen
11-14-2005, 02:36 PM
Yeah, I suppose Roger used crutches and is now using an ankle brace just to keep perpetuating the lie that he injured himself. And the 6 weeks off after Wimbledon just wasn't enough vacation.... :rolleyes:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to say as fact these injuries were never existent is bs.....how do any of us really know?
Agree completely. Cannot stand it when people think that Roger's injuries are non-existent or out of proportion. Please, the man walked on crutches for 2 weeks.

ys
11-14-2005, 02:39 PM
Agassi is gone.
Hewitt is gone.
Safin is gone.
Roddick is gone.
Nadal is gone.

With exception of Nadal neither of these players overplayed. And Nadal has only himself to blame.. Played too much of crappy clay.. Also having too much of muscle mass inevitably bring some pain to legs and feet that hav to carry that mass. No other tennis player has that.. and for a reason..

prima donna
11-14-2005, 03:09 PM
Yeah, I suppose Roger used crutches and is now using an ankle brace just to keep perpetuating the lie that he injured himself. And the 6 weeks off after Wimbledon just wasn't enough vacation.... :rolleyes:

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but to say as fact these injuries were never existent is bs.....how do any of us really know?
Crutches ? Merely a prop. Nobody will ever really know, which is precisely why the masses shouldn't base their opinions on the timing of these so-called "injuries", especially when there's been an awful lot of speculation and an argument could be made for both sides that would be plausible.

prima donna
11-14-2005, 03:13 PM
Tennis players, much like other athletes and human beings, lie all the time. Roger is on a commercial advertising nCode, his "chosen racquet" and yet I'd be willing to bet my life that's a paint job and he's using something from 10 years ago. It's common knowledge that paint jobs are used on tour to market a product that players don't really use, I'm Roger's biggest admirer and even I will admit, business is buisness, bullshit is bullshit. He needed a little time off. I do not buy the legitimacy of his injury.

Players will do what they need to earn money for themselves, which goes for taking time off, it is what is beneficial. The significance of the paint job story just goes to show no matter who you are or what you are: we all tell little white lies, when there is a GOOD reason behind it.

amierin
11-14-2005, 03:14 PM
There was a report that Rafa's practices in Mallorca were not going well, that he wasn't practicing points, just hitting. I don't think people paid a lot of attention to it at the time because no one thought he was too injured to play. He made the trip and brought his family and friends. He came to play. Anyone who saw the Fed/Nalby match saw the hunger in his eyes to be out there playing. I think if he could've he would've.

almouchie
11-14-2005, 03:24 PM
MAKE IT SHORTERRRRRR

mishar
11-14-2005, 03:33 PM
Everyone talks about cutting down the season and nothing ever changes. Clearly something dramatic is needed. Why not just eliminate the indoor season? End the year after the U.S. Open. Sorry for Ljubo and Stepanek, but most of the tournaments end up seeming anemic. Have a few indoor tournaments in February. That way the players get the off-season they say they want, they can gear down, really train from Sep to Jan.

jtipson
11-14-2005, 03:33 PM
I do not buy the legitimacy of his injury.

I think the injuries earlier this year (Rome, Montreal) were real enough but excuses to get some rest. He could have played if he'd wanted.

This time around however, there's plenty of evidence which points his injury preventing him from playing. Not only the crutches, the people who heard him cry out when he did it, the fact that he was practising for Madrid at the time. If he'd wanted to withdraw from Madrid, he could have just said he was tired like he did last year; he didn't have to fake an injury to get out of it.

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 03:48 PM
Andre hasn't played since the US Open. Fed injured his ankle in practice and called it "bad luck". What does that have to do with the long season? I don't think what happened this year is because the season is too long.

well, if you play a lot, your ankle can be working but with all the wear and tear it is in More danger of being sprained in practice, so yes Roge's ankle injury can be easily linked to the length of the season

AlexNYR
11-14-2005, 04:10 PM
there is nothing wrong with the season...players stop in early december and get 3 weeks off before the new year..some players just use december to play exos then complain they got no rest...many take the 1st week of january off as well thats a month off right there....you only need to play 18 tournaments plus the masters cup so all you need is less that 2 tournies a month...players are not being smart about their schedules then blame the season for the mess they got into...roddick hurt his back in paris but still flew back to the US to play a charity event, then people blame the season being too long? nadal played too much, safin got hurt legit, federer was a fluke, agassi is just being agassi and finding the first good reason to miss the event, roddick got hurt in paris but who knows how severe the injury was and hewitt was going to be there if not for his first child coming..to me just because someone claims they are injured doesn't mean they are injured enough to not play..how many times in our jobs have we called in sick from work due to illnesses that were made up? why are tennis players any different....to me, ide rather see lower ranked players who WANT to play over those higher ranked that go there unmotivated anyway...everybody knows the schedule and remaining healthy is every much a part of sports as the actual competition...some players are just injury prone, but you dont see other sports cutting their seasons

mishar
11-14-2005, 04:16 PM
Actually, there is no other major sport that has a year-long season, at least not in the U.S. All of the current thinking in sports medicine places great importance on the idea of seasonal training, you build towards certain events, and the off-season is important not only for rest but for serious off-court work that you can't do while playing a tournament every other week.
Some injuries might be a fluke, but the argument is that the bodies of these young people are wearing down much too quickly, because there is no proper off-season.

I agree that they make their own schedules, and play exhibitions (though hit-and-giggle exho like the one Roddick play I don't think do any damage to a player).

Horatio Caine
11-14-2005, 04:20 PM
They don't need to...

Hewitt - not injured...really.
Roddick - obviously not that bad if he risks it in Madrid and even plays a charity event.
Agassi - plays racquetball and gets injured...not tennis.
Nadal - played more than necessary this year.
Safin - injuries can't be put down to overplay.

ys
11-14-2005, 04:22 PM
MAKE IT SHORTERRRRRR

You mean Karlovic? :lol:

NYCtennisfan
11-14-2005, 04:28 PM
The season is too long but some of these injuries are freak injuries. As a poster pointed out, none of the players who withdrew overplayed other than Nadal and a lot of the injuries were freak practice injuries.

Yes the season is too long but you cannot blame all of these injuries on that. Sometimes it just happens.

Jimnik
11-14-2005, 04:30 PM
no, its a freak season

I think so too.

Jimnik
11-14-2005, 04:37 PM
The season doesn't need to be shorter. The players need to be smarter. They don't have to play so many tournaments throughout the year.

case
11-14-2005, 04:55 PM
"....to me, ide rather see lower ranked players who WANT to play over those higher ranked that go there unmotivated anyway...everybody knows the schedule and remaining healthy is every much a part of sports as the actual competition...some players are just injury prone, but you dont see other sports cutting their seasons[/QUOTE]


Most everybody else wants to see the best players in the world play, not the second raters. Most human bodies are not made to do repetitive movements requiring strength and twisting movements. Most other sports are team events, not individuals.
Big, big difference.

prima donna
11-14-2005, 05:11 PM
I think a terrible number of people are being rather selfish with regards to this topic.

Horatio Caine
11-14-2005, 05:17 PM
no, its a freak season

I agree totally with you for once :lol:

Nadal has overplayed. Agassi, Federer, Safin, Roddick were unfortunate - they don't play all that much anyway...certainly not nearly as much as the rest of the top end of the tour.

Hewitt was letting something else other than his racquet do the talking...albeit 8 months ago :o

Horatio Caine
11-14-2005, 05:17 PM
I think a terrible number of people are being rather selfish with regards to this topic.

Not really....see my previous post for instance ;)

KarstenBraasch#1
11-14-2005, 05:43 PM
Well I do think they should reduce the number of Masters Series events to six or seven.
At the very least, don't have them back to back like Hamburg and Rome. Or have byes for the top 8 there.

tangerine_dream
11-14-2005, 05:49 PM
no, its a freak season
they used to play until Mid-December until about 1994 or so.
the Grand Slam Cup which everyone died to play was the last event of the yr, 2 weeks after DC finals.
they never had problems then.
This is true. The ATP officials will just write-off this season as being an aberration and do nothing to change the schedule.

kundalini
11-14-2005, 05:51 PM
Of course the season won't change.

The tournaments make money - or at least some of them do. Those that don't may wish to reconsider whether they want to continue. But things will pretty much stay as they are.

Anyway, why should the season change just to protect the guys at the top? If you are ranked 80 or worse you probably want to play as many tournaments as possible in order to make a living.

The stars of the game need to pick and choose their tournaments carefully. Some of the schedules of these players are frankly ridiculous - and so too are the tournament directors who think that star x is really going to show up in the first place.

We know by now that the indoor Masters events are likely to see several of the top players missing. That no americans will bother to show up to Monte Carlo, that some of the clay court guys won't tread on a grass court.

I have no problem with Federer playing 14 or 15 tournaments a year. With Agassi playing 6 or 7. In fact I'm amazed that Roger plays Bangkok and Dubai - surely he makes enough cash without the appearance money he gets for showing up at these events?

Players need to make their own decisions - and if that means missing the end of season masters then fair enough. Though I personally wouldn't want to be the promoter of that event after this farce.

R.Federer
11-14-2005, 06:50 PM
The only easy fix is to reduce the number of optionals that will count towards ranking.

This way, lower ranked players who need to play more tournaments to make a living, can continue to do so, and higher ranked players who need to save their body for the slams and T.M.S and so on, can do so selectively because their rankings will only depend on few tournamnets, and the rest will be purely for the $.

revolution
11-14-2005, 06:56 PM
Reducing the optional points is a super idea. Would mean only the real best players in the TMC. It would also reduce GS pullouts (mainly Wimbledon) and Monte Carlo, Madrid and Paris withdrawals.

Socket
11-14-2005, 07:08 PM
There are several different issues here. One is the length of the season and the absence of a real off-season of several months. Another is the number of Masters events. Yet another is the calculation of entry rankings, which has the effect of strongly encouraging players to play non-Masters events to up their rankings.

Personally, I think the lack of a real off-season is the first thing that the ATP should address, mostly because it's the easiest. I would have no more than one event between the US Open and the YEC, which I would move to late September (and I'd change Davis Cup format to Fed Cup format, with that event scheduled later in the year). By compressing the yearly schedule that way, you have to reduce the number of Masters events, probably dropping at least 2-3 of them (but I wouldn't simply drop the ones in the fall, I'd change the entire calendar). Then, I'd tinker with the ranking formula, to use fewer non-Masters events in the caclulations, to remove the players' incentive to play these events. I think these changes give the players the best chance of avoiding year-end exhaustion and reducing over-use injuries while not adversely affecting their ranking. Also, it would help the tournament directors (and television) by hopefully reducing the number of players who withdraw from Masters events and the YEC.

TheBoiledEgg
11-14-2005, 07:39 PM
the thing they should look at is appearance money

more players are pulling out of TMS events just to play in a mickey mouse event just to get some guaranteed $$$ by doing jack shit.