Meaning of the word " Choke " [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Meaning of the word " Choke "

RickDaStick
11-06-2005, 06:11 PM
For some reason people love using this word. Yea, there are times where a player chokes like when serving for the match in a big match and he hits 2 double faults and a couple of unforced errors. That is a choke without a question but when a player is serving for a match and the returner hits 4 winners most people here still called it a choke. That shouldnt be the case sometimes you have to be able to say the other guy is just too good today. If a player is favorite to win a tournament and he loses to some guy who plays the match of his life, well guess what MTF still says choke. Not true. I think many of you people need to learn what a choke is before you start saying every player who loses is a choker.

Action Jackson
11-06-2005, 06:15 PM
Yes, the term choker is totally misused in this forum.

Berdych beating Ljubo today would be considered an upset victory, but not a choke as Ljubo was never in front in the match or blew a multitude of match points.

To many a choke in this place is someone going down 0-15 in the first game of a match, they choked.

MariaV
11-06-2005, 06:18 PM
IL, don't take everything too seriously here.

Neely
11-06-2005, 06:41 PM
Completely agree with post #1 what IvanLjubicic says. Some people here go around and call choke almost every lost match. When somebody is leading 2-0 and loses the set it is called choke. Agassi def. Blake at USO 05 was mentioned multiple times in the "biggest choke of all time" thread when both guys played an outstanding match and the winner to unforced error ratio being 3:1. When Haas lost serve to Ginepri in the fifth set at USO 05 I had a little dispute with Deivid who called it a choke, there was nothing to choke for Haas and he lost to a better man who took the possibilities and who won his points in the fifth set and who went on to make the semis of a Slam. Lots of more examples and not everything is a choke, not every defeat of a favourite is a choke...

delsa
11-06-2005, 07:38 PM
I completely agree with the first post! :yeah:

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 08:41 PM
When Haas lost serve to Ginepri in the fifth set at USO 05 I had a little dispute with Deivid who called it a choke, there was nothing to choke for Haas and he lost to a better man who took the possibilities and who won his points in the fifth set and who went on to make the semis of a Slam. Lots of more examples and not everything is a choke, not every defeat of a favourite is a choke...

I know what choke is and Haas choked big time that day ;)

*Ljubica*
11-06-2005, 08:48 PM
I totally agree with Ivan's comments here - Ljubo didn't choke today - it was a great match - he fought well to come back from 0-2 sets down, and in the end Berdych strung together some great winning shots and he was just too good on the day. Good luck to him

Neely
11-06-2005, 08:56 PM
I know what choke is and Haas choked big time that day ;)
Peace to us! :cool:
I know I won't change my opinion about that and you won't change yours ;)

star
11-06-2005, 08:59 PM
For some reason people love using this word. Yea, there are times where a player chokes like when serving for the match in a big match and he hits 2 double faults and a couple of unforced errors. That is a choke without a question but when a player is serving for a match and the returner hits 4 winners most people here still called it a choke. That shouldnt be the case sometimes you have to be able to say the other guy is just too good today. If a player is favorite to win a tournament and he loses to some guy who plays the match of his life, well guess what MTF still says choke. Not true. I think many of you people need to learn what a choke is before you start saying every player who loses is a choker.

I couldn't agree more. To lose a match through choking, you have to be in a clear position to win and your own errors and poor play lead to the defeat. The classic and forever classic choke came when Novotna was serving to go up 5-1 in the second set during the Wimbledon final and lost the match when suddenly she couldn't get a serve over the net.

There are players, however, who just don't perform up to expectations when they play big matches. I don't know if you can put Ivan in this category, but to me this is different than a choke.

Also every player has "choked" on a point or two, but that is more just getting tight, and I don't think that counts as a "choke" either.

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:02 PM
Peace to us! :cool:
I know I won't change my opinion about that and you won't change yours ;)

Fair enough. But after reading the original thread I think you´re mistaken and you hav a wrong impression about me if you think I say he choked bc of any bet I had on him, just to clarify. Choking or not has nothing to do with having money or not on anyone, at least in my case, I know how to deal with my losses and how to learn from them ;)

Neely
11-06-2005, 09:06 PM
Of course I agree on that, Deivid. After making that clear, now lets be friends again :hug: ;)

adee-gee
11-06-2005, 09:22 PM
Can I point out Nadal vs Federer in Miami was also not a choke.

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:25 PM
Can I point out Nadal vs Federer in Miami was also not a choke.

I agree here, as it´s not being broken when being up a break, it´s the way you lose that advantage (by getting tight).

adee-gee
11-06-2005, 09:40 PM
I agree here, as it´s not being broken when being up a break, it´s the way you lose that advantage (by getting tight).
Also the fact is his serve was pretty weak at that point, and a break didn't mean a huge amount. Plus Federer upped his level in the middle of the 3rd set.

Deboogle!.
11-06-2005, 09:48 PM
I agree. :)

Deivid23
11-06-2005, 09:50 PM
Also the fact is his serve was pretty weak at that point, and a break didn't mean a huge amount. Plus Federer upped his level in the middle of the 3rd set.

Federer upped his level enough to win that 3rd set, it had nothing to do with Nadal getting tight and choking away his lead there. Anyway we all know many people will disagree :lol:

KoOlMaNsEaN
11-06-2005, 11:16 PM
Choke=
Being up a break or more in a set and losing it and/or
Being up two sets to love and losing

A choke is not being up one set to love but being up a set and a break is a choke.

R.Federer
11-06-2005, 11:27 PM
Yes, it seems most posters understand the definition. Still, many will say "Choke" when they are angry that their player lost.

I can only think of a few instances of choking. I do not intend to offend your favorite player. But Coria in French Open 2004 set 3, I think he himself will agree to that. Rafter in Wimbledon final against Sampras, 1 set and 4-1 up in the 2nd tie breaker (he has also said it). Jana Novotna against Steffi


EDIT: After I post this, while I cooked my dinner :) I was thinking about it futher, and realized one more which I should be fair and mention as a possible choke. I don't konw if he has said that, but Roge's loss in Davis Cup to leyton, after being 2 sets up and a break. For me, this was a day of great tears. But the beauty of this example is that Roge learned from it and -- lets see, is there anyone mentall stronger on tour now than he? :yeah:

hablovah19
11-07-2005, 12:27 AM
choke = on wtaworld.com, it's everytime Momo looses :rolleyes::tape:

:topic: but that wasn't the case today :banana:

wcr
11-07-2005, 01:37 AM
Years after Graf beat Novotna at Wimbledon 1997, where Novotna was up a set and 4-1 in the 2nd and then lost the match, a reporter asked Graf about Novotna choking.

Graf's reply was something along the lines of "I can't speak about choking. What I can tell you is that you need experience to know how to win in that situation."

Perhaps Graf doesn't believe in choking. Perhaps she thinks that winning is about how to cope with your emotions and use your mind in a given situation and that experience is absolutely necessary to know what to do. Perhaps Graf was being kind to an old rival. All that aside, it changed the way I see the game and the players.

RickDaStick
12-04-2005, 05:59 PM
This bump goes out for MANGOES.

mini155
12-04-2005, 06:11 PM
good moment for bumping this thread :yeah:

Action Jackson
02-19-2006, 08:48 AM
For the clowns who don't get the usage of choke an example.

Calleri leads Massu 6-2 5-1 in the 2002 Buenos Aires final and loses, there wasn't an injury to Calleri in this match and this is a good example of choking.

TheBoiledEgg
02-19-2006, 01:07 PM
we need master examples of chokers

Todd Martin, come on down :wavey:

Action Jackson
02-19-2006, 01:13 PM
we need master examples of chokers

Todd Martin, come on down :wavey:

5-1 in the 5th set of the Wimbledon semi final against big Mal.

rexman
02-19-2006, 03:09 PM
Completely agree with post #1 what IvanLjubicic says. Some people here go around and call choke almost every lost match. When somebody is leading 2-0 and loses the set it is called choke. Agassi def. Blake at USO 05 was mentioned multiple times in the "biggest choke of all time" thread when both guys played an outstanding match and the winner to unforced error ratio being 3:1. When Haas lost serve to Ginepri in the fifth set at USO 05 I had a little dispute with Deivid who called it a choke, there was nothing to choke for Haas and he lost to a better man who took the possibilities and who won his points in the fifth set and who went on to make the semis of a Slam. Lots of more examples and not everything is a choke, not every defeat of a favourite is a choke...

Not true, Agassi had one more error than winners in that match.

I think a choke can be a lot of things.

Because someone is up 5-3 and loses, doesn't mean it's a choke. And because someone never led, doesn't mean it's not a choke.

When Mauresmo lost to Jana Kandarr in the first round of the French Open 5-7 5-7 after winning two big warm up events, that was a choke.

A choke is when one player is poised for victory, and loses it on account of their own poor play. Whether is be double faults, can't get a first serve in, making unforced errors that they normally don't, or not going for their shots.

When Elena Likhovtseva lost to Mary Pierce after being up 6-0 in the tiebreak, it was a choke. Mary hit winners, but she was able to hit them because Likhovtseva stopped hitting her shots and gave Mary sitters.

To me, there has to be no or little clear improvement in their opponents play for it to be deemed a choke.

croat123
02-19-2006, 03:26 PM
choking = making final after final and losing time and time again to really crappy players that you can beat easily in any other round of a tournament :mad:

MariaV
02-19-2006, 03:28 PM
choking = making final after final and losing time and time again to really crappy players that you can beat easily in any other round of a tournament :mad:
Let's hope Mario can beat Jarkko in Rotterdam next week, it's 1st rd after all. :lol:

RaVeR
02-19-2006, 03:29 PM
you dreaming MariaV...Mario will lose that match :help:

Action Jackson
02-19-2006, 03:47 PM
Good to see the meaning is still lost on what choking actually is.

Action Jackson
03-27-2006, 05:05 AM
Choke the all purpose word on MTF used by many posters to describe someone who loses a match when they were in no position to win it.

Examples of choking.

2004 Rome: Ginepri leading 7-5 5-0 against Mantilla and was not injured, ended up losing 5-7 7-5 6-0 and lost 5 match points a choke.

2004 Kitzbühel : Andreas Seppi leading a set and having 10 mps against Rainer Schüttler in the 2nd set tiebreaker and losing the breaker and then losing the last set 6-0. That's a choke.

Not losing the toss of a coin or being down 0-15 on the 1st service game.

its.like.that
03-27-2006, 05:26 AM
"Choke" is rarely used in this forum, particularly by those whose first language is one other than English.

"Chock" is much more commonly used, and it's meaning can be ambiguous.

its.like.that
03-27-2006, 11:13 PM
Henman chocked today.

lzhaol
03-28-2006, 12:46 AM
Player A won the first set.. up a break in the 2nd...
suddenly down a break in the 2nd and actually DF on break point and eventually lost the 2nd
in the 3rd set...same thing happened... DF occasionally on break point down

is this choke???

Neely
08-07-2007, 03:26 AM
Now was Mathieu vs Canas a choke or not?


I can identify with the meaning of choke how Scoobs put it.

To choke you actually have to blow the lead by your actions and that does not really apply here. This was Paulo just going nuts in a controlled way and painting the lines for the next 13 games

User ID 29337
08-07-2007, 03:42 AM
For some reason people love using this word. Yea, there are times where a player chokes like when serving for the match in a big match and he hits 2 double faults and a couple of unforced errors. That is a choke without a question but when a player is serving for a match and the returner hits 4 winners most people here still called it a choke. That shouldnt be the case sometimes you have to be able to say the other guy is just too good today. If a player is favorite to win a tournament and he loses to some guy who plays the match of his life, well guess what MTF still says choke. Not true. I think many of you people need to learn what a choke is before you start saying every player who loses is a choker.

I agree 100%. Todays seeded losses are examples. If the rest of the tournaments matches are nearly as good, its going to go down as one of the greats.

ChinoRios4Ever
08-07-2007, 04:19 AM
Cañas remembered the past today :o

Action Jackson
08-07-2007, 04:21 AM
Canas didn't choke, he eased off a bit and expected Mathieu to keep making errors, but it didn't happen.

ReturnWinner
08-07-2007, 04:26 AM
not a full choke as Mathieu played great but still one.Cañas helped Mathieu for his comeback a little for sure
Canas didn't choke, he eased off a bit and expected Mathieu to keep making errors, but it didn't happen.

Action Jackson
08-07-2007, 04:30 AM
not a full choke as Mathieu played great but still one.Cañas helped Mathieu for his comeback a little for sure

Not a choke at all.

Action Jackson
08-07-2007, 04:33 AM
IL, is still right when he says in the OP.

This is an example of a choke and proper one.

Calleri vs. Koubek in Sopot. Calleri lead 6-0 4-0 and then had a 5-3 lead in the 3rd set but lost the match 0-6 7-6 7-5.

Calleri served for the match 3 times and had 5 match points and served a double fault on one of them, this is what classifies as a choke.

ReturnWinner
08-07-2007, 04:36 AM
yes a little ,but just in the some games of the second set , cañas hit some dfs and ues and missed a lots of first serves of course that increased Mathieu confidence ,

since the end of the second set untill the end not choke at all

but when u had such an advantage and u wasted it then is clear u had some fault in that
Not a choke at all.

Rumour
08-07-2007, 04:38 AM
A choke is when one player is poised for victory, and loses it on account of their own poor play. Whether is be double faults, can't get a first serve in, making unforced errors that they normally don't, or not going for their shots.
[...]
To me, there has to be no or little clear improvement in their opponents play for it to be deemed a choke.
Agree completely with this assessment - there's a clear difference between actively losing a match from ahead and being beaten by a trailing player who finally steps up his or her game.

Action Jackson
08-07-2007, 04:43 AM
yes a little ,but just in the some games of the second set , cañas hit some dfs and ues and missed a lots of first serves of course that increased Mathieu confidence ,

since the end of the second set untill the end not choke at all

but when u had such an advantage and u wasted it then is clear u had some fault in that

It's not a choke, when you are getting outplayed. Canas had a mental lapse and wasn't as focused as he should have been to put Mathieu away, this is not choking.

Mathieu once he got the frustration out of his system concentrated better, fought hard and started hitting winners. The momentum shifted and Canas couldn't stop it.

I have given a clear example of what a choke is and do you want another example of what a proper choke is, and we aren't going to get anywhere on this one.

ReturnWinner
08-07-2007, 04:46 AM
no no full choke of course , but he had some bad play in the next games after wasted that bp in 40 as i told, its for that i say cañas choked a little, once mathieu evened in 4 the second set then he had the moment with him and outplayed cañas
It's not a choke, when you are getting outplayed. Canas had a mental lapse and wasn't as focused as he should have been to put Mathieu away, this is not choking.

Mathieu once he got the frustration out of his system concentrated better, fought hard and started hitting winners. The momentum shifted and Canas couldn't stop it.

I have given a clear example of what a choke is and do you want another example of what a proper choke is, and we aren't going to get anywhere on this one.

CmonAussie
08-07-2007, 06:11 AM
****
--->>
Coria @ FO 2004: leading the final 6-0, 6-3, 4-3 & bps in the next game, plus mps in the 5th set!
That was one of the chokes of the last decade!

McEnroe @ FO 1984: ~~this match is legendary!! Bad Mac just couldn`t keep it together & to lose against choker Lendl made it all the more dramatic!!

bayvalle
08-07-2007, 01:13 PM
"Choke" best applies to a situation when a player had the match already wrapped up, when at the last minute "something" came up, resulting in a different ending. One "classic" example may be a match in which Player A was leading 6-0, 6-0, 6-5 in the first 3 sets, but after the battlesmoke had cleared, it was Player B who came out on top (winning the remaining sets, 7-6, 7-6, 7-6). I believe this has happened a number of times before. Comparable with the Roddick-Gasquet FO semifinals match perhaps?

Puschkin
08-07-2007, 02:05 PM
"Choke" best applies to a situation when a player had the match already wrapped up, when at the last minute "something" came up, resulting in a different ending. One "classic" example may be a match in which Player A was leading 6-0, 6-0, 6-5 in the first 3 sets, but after the battlesmoke had cleared, it was Player B who came out on top (winning the remaining sets, 7-6, 7-6, 7-6). I believe this has happened a number of times before. Comparable with the Roddick-Gasquet FO semifinals match perhaps?

It was in Wimbledon :D and Roddick did not choke in my understanding of the word.

ReturnWinner
08-07-2007, 02:06 PM
agree
It was in Wimbledon :D and Roddick did not choke in my understanding of the word.

bayvalle
08-07-2007, 02:07 PM
It was in Wimbledon :D and Roddick did not choke in my understanding of the word.
Wimbledon, yes. Thanks.

musefanatic
08-07-2007, 02:42 PM
I always think of a choke as a player who is on the brink of winning, and suddenly can't either close the match, or lets his opponent back in so that his opponent wins the match. I can't see how losing a set from 5-1 up is a choke, because your opponent could just be swinging at the ball and coming up lucky, as they feel they have nothing to lose. But when you are in a sure position of winning, your opponent looks dead and buried and then suddenly you cock up or something, then as far as i'm concerned that's a choke.

madmanfool
08-07-2007, 03:17 PM
obviously the word choke is overused big time here.
But there was an example of a choke recently: Calleri leading 6-0 5-1 i think and still lost

Action Jackson
08-07-2007, 03:19 PM
obviously the word choke is overused big time here.
But there was an example of a choke recently: Calleri leading 6-0 5-1 i think and still lost

I typed that earlier about Calleri/Koubek.

Baghdatis72
08-07-2007, 04:22 PM
Choke is the feeling that someone gets when the stress and anxiety is really high and the feeling of choking is present. That feels like a psychological choke and the whole body feels like paralysed.

A player chokes imo when at some important points of the match he can't live up to the expectation of the moment and gets that "choking" feeling which leads to stupid mistakes and a loss.

Rumour
08-07-2007, 05:38 PM
Choke is the feeling that someone gets when the stress and anxiety is really high and the feeling of choking is present. That feels like a psychological choke and the whole body feels like paralysed.

A player chokes imo when at some important points of the match he can't live up to the expectation of the moment and gets that "choking" feeling which leads to stupid mistakes and a loss.

This is the typical choke as most of us would envision it, but there is also the reverse i.e. when someone is so sure of winning and overconfident that he or she spontaneously does something silly that ends up resulting in defeat. I can't think of any specific tennis examples but there was one famous incident at the last Winter Olympics when a female downhill snowboarder (whose name escapes me now) had a huge lead in the gold medal run. With the finish line literally a few metres away and none of her fellow competitors even in the camera shot, she decided to do a fancy jump and fell flat on her face :o By the time she had gotten back up to complete the race someone had already passed her and she barely managed to hang onto a medal, let alone losing the gold.

Baghdatis72
08-07-2007, 06:43 PM
This is the typical choke as most of us would envision it, but there is also the reverse i.e. when someone is so sure of winning and overconfident that he or she spontaneously does something silly that ends up resulting in defeat. I can't think of any specific tennis examples but there was one famous incident at the last Winter Olympics when a female downhill snowboarder (whose name escapes me now) had a huge lead in the gold medal run. With the finish line literally a few metres away and none of her fellow competitors even in the camera shot, she decided to do a fancy jump and fell flat on her face :o By the time she had gotten back up to complete the race someone had already passed her and she barely managed to hang onto a medal, let alone losing the gold.

Well that wouldn't be called a choke but overconfident stupidity ;)

Myrre
08-07-2007, 07:33 PM
Choke is the feeling that someone gets when the stress and anxiety is really high and the feeling of choking is present. That feels like a psychological choke and the whole body feels like paralysed.

A player chokes imo when at some important points of the match he can't live up to the expectation of the moment and gets that "choking" feeling which leads to stupid mistakes and a loss.

Agreed. You get into a winning position, get nervous (tight) and can't execute your shots anymore. Everything goes downhill from there. That's a choke. Period.

Action Jackson
08-07-2007, 07:37 PM
Choke is the feeling that someone gets when the stress and anxiety is really high and the feeling of choking is present. That feels like a psychological choke and the whole body feels like paralysed.

A player chokes imo when at some important points of the match he can't live up to the expectation of the moment and gets that "choking" feeling which leads to stupid mistakes and a loss.

Examples

Calleri vs. Koubek plus Coria vs. Gaudio as explained before.

Acasuso vs. Ferrer in Stuttgart last year, Chucho leading 2 sets to 1 and up 5-1 in the 4th and served for twice and got tentative and realised it was going to be his biggest tournament win and shat himself.

You get the meaning of the word.

madmanfool
08-07-2007, 07:46 PM
I typed that earlier about Calleri/Koubek.

well please forgive me mister moderator, i didn't read all four pages..

Action Jackson
08-07-2007, 07:49 PM
well please forgive me mister moderator, i didn't read all four pages..

It's not like it's a massive thread.

jonas
08-07-2007, 11:47 PM
A choke isn't necessarily being up 6-0, 5-1 and lose the match. It can be "chokish" when you take the win for granted, play the wrong tactic all of a sudden and get to passive. An example of that is Canas recent loss to PHM being up 6-4, 4-0. IMO he didn't choked it out, just lost the momentum and PHM played really loose and made crazy winners. Canas got a little chocked and confused but didn't choke in the words true meaning.

A great recent example of a choke is Monfils against Isner in Washington. Monfils broke Isner's serve for the first time in the match at 5-5 in the final set. He had "only" to serve it out, but got tight and nervous, failed to get a single first serve in, played way too passive and made UE. A classic choke IMO.

laure xxx
08-08-2007, 03:28 AM
Tennis is not a game - it is a series of chokes. Therefore it applies to every single match played. Even winners are chokes from the other guy. Choker!

Nathaliia
08-08-2007, 03:31 AM
Getting tight and nervous when leading or especially when being just about to win the match etc., is my definition of a choke :)

bad gambler
08-08-2007, 03:51 AM
Federer choked when he received the Australian Open trophy from Rocket Laver in 2006

laure xxx
08-08-2007, 03:53 AM
Federer choked when he received the Australian Open trophy from Rocket Laver in 2006

He also forgot how to speak English when he received that trophy from Rod if I remember correctly. :o

El Legenda
08-08-2007, 04:06 AM
Federer choked when he received the Australian Open trophy from Rocket Laver in 2006

:rolleyes:

bayvalle
08-08-2007, 06:15 AM
He also forgot how to speak English when he received that trophy from Rod if I remember correctly. :o
"Overwhelmed" may be the word to describe Fed at that particular moment.

Jimnik
08-08-2007, 06:32 AM
Hmm, I agree the word is over-used but I wouldn't go as far as saying a player needs to have MPs or needs to be a set and a break up. Take Verdasco, for instance, Davis Cup against Roddick he goes 5-2 up in the first set and then sprays UEs all over the place. And this is typical of the man, he doesn't need to be close to the finishing line to start choking. Sometimes he's up an early break in a set and loses his nerve very quickly.

Allure
08-08-2007, 06:37 AM
Choke=what happens to Nadal when he eats a banana between matches

Rogiman
08-08-2007, 07:02 AM
Not a choke at all.How can you give the Ginepri-Mantilla match as a prime example of choking and label this one as "not a choke at all", because Ginepri lead 5:0 in the 2nd and Canas "only" 4:0 with a chance to go up 5:0? :retard:

Any player leading by a set and a double break and ending-up losing the match is necessarily a choke, let alone a plyer like Canas whose serve is more than enough to win him some free points.

Action Jackson
08-08-2007, 07:12 AM
How can you give the Ginepri-Mantilla match as a prime example of choking and label this one as "not a choke at all", because Ginepri lead 5:0 in the 2nd and Canas "only" 4:0 with a chance to go up 5:0? :retard:

Any player leading by a set and a double break and ending-up losing the match is necessarily a choke, let alone a plyer like Canas whose serve is more than enough to win him some free points.

First of all did you watch the Canas/Mathieu match? Second of all these were different matches with different kinds of players. I am a huge Mantilla fan, but if you are honest with yourself, then he isn't going to start blasting winners from both sides of the court is he? He has never done that and I had a friend of mine at this match and Mantilla played like he normally did and fought even harder and wasn't blasting winners like Mathieu was in his match.

Canas was guilty of being passive and expecting Mathieu to continue making errors and when Paulo adjusted, he wasn't able to keep up, naturally he is experienced enough to have known to put the guy away, but he failed to do that and this was down to choking, he slowed down on serve and had a concentration lapse and got punished.

Conclusion, just cause the scores were similar, the circumstances weren't at all.

Action Jackson
09-10-2007, 04:48 AM
The misuse of the word "choke", no wonder it made the MTF laws.

Eden
09-11-2007, 10:33 AM
Pete Sampras said after he defeated Rafter in the Wimbledon final to get his 7th title there and his 13th overall GS title:

''We all choke,'' said Sampras, who wound up with 12 double-faults. ''No matter who you are, you just get in the heat of the moment. The title could be won or lost in a matter of a couple of shots."

VolandriFan
09-11-2007, 12:04 PM
And some people call it a choke only when the player hits unforced errors or double faults. Choking also includes hitting the ball softly and without depth to the center of the court, using pathetic and inefficient tactics and serving second serves as first serves.

2003
12-09-2011, 08:57 AM
Theres no doubt choking exists to some extent, though I feel 95% of the time it is used as an adjective it isnt really applied properly.

What do you think?

tripwires
12-09-2011, 08:59 AM
On MTF? Definitely. Lots of drama queens here. :lol:

Haelfix
12-09-2011, 09:59 AM
Everyone gets tight in some points/games and even entire sets. Thats why its absurd when people say that someone 'chokes' on a big point. It doesn't work that way. If you use that definition, every tennis player in the world chokes multiple times in an average match...

Choking is a sustained period where you play much less well than you normally do, and in addition has a very characteristic feel (eg the rush of adrenaline, the wobbly legs, etc).

Choking is therefore the act of not being able to recuperate from a physiological problem. The Gaudio/Coria match is an example. It wasn't just the bad game in the 3rd set that Coria should have won, that was understandable, but rather the complete inability to bounce back to proper form in sets 4 and 5 despite being physically still there. That's what a choke looks like.

So I emphasize it is not simply missing a big shot in an important tiebreaker, it is rather the complete inability to recuperate.

shiaben
12-09-2011, 08:34 PM
So I emphasize it is not simply missing a big shot in an important tiebreaker, it is rather the complete inability to recuperate.

This is very true. I also think the opponent outplaying you does not count as a choke either.

People can complain all they want. But Federer did not choke against Djokovic in the last two U.S. Opens.

Djokovic's return of serves and dominant plays off the baseline ensured victories in both matches.

r2473
12-09-2011, 09:31 PM
Choke:
~verb

1. One of the only two possible outcomes for a match: you win, or you choke.

2. When a specific MTF poster’s favourite player had an advantage (match ball, set ball, break ball, point ball, or when he’s just talented --> see “talented”) and doesn’t capitalize it. That proves the player is better than the rival, no matter if the rival is actually able to capitalize his own advantages.

Choker:
~noun

1. Player that lost a match but you wanted him to win so bad, didn’t you?

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=142600&highlight=

MIMIC
12-10-2011, 11:48 PM
For some reason people love using this word. Yea, there are times where a player chokes like when serving for the match in a big match and he hits 2 double faults and a couple of unforced errors. That is a choke without a question but when a player is serving for a match and the returner hits 4 winners most people here still called it a choke. That shouldnt be the case sometimes you have to be able to say the other guy is just too good today. If a player is favorite to win a tournament and he loses to some guy who plays the match of his life, well guess what MTF still says choke. Not true. I think many of you people need to learn what a choke is before you start saying every player who loses is a choker.

Funny how you should mention this :lol:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=189743 (first freakin post)

People are unwilling to be objective and are too distracted by their own fandom.

shiaben
12-10-2011, 11:50 PM
Agree with RickDaStick. People just want to find ways to discredit Djokovic by assuming he choked rather than Djokovic defeating him and outplaying him that night. Return winners are NOT a choke.

emotion
12-11-2011, 12:00 AM
No, it's not exaggerated. Most matches are chokes. And Fed this year definitely was.