An honest question about Roddick. [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

An honest question about Roddick.

Nimi
11-05-2005, 06:30 PM
This is NOT A BASHING THREAD! Nothing in my question comes to offend Roddick or to praise Ivan or has relevance to the outcome of this match.

The question:

What kind of a back injury can harm your movement but does not hurt you while you are serving? Is this normal? Do you really believe this injury is a real one? It really looked quite odd to me, in both this match and the Ferrer match, in which Roddick moved quite well despite complaining on his back.

PaulieM
11-05-2005, 06:31 PM
oh boy...:bolt:

alfonsojose
11-05-2005, 06:37 PM
1. Roddick's serve relays a more on his arm
2. See the match again and notice how he landed after he jumped for serve. He was trying to avoid pain

Skyward
11-05-2005, 06:47 PM
http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/images/smilies/panik1.gif http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/images/smilies/panik1.gif http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/images/smilies/panik1.gif

ServeAlready81
11-05-2005, 06:49 PM
People must remember that he's been serving like that for years, a little pain won't change something that's branded in you.

tangerine_dream
11-05-2005, 06:50 PM
This is NOT A BASHING THREAD!
It soon will be.

MariaV
11-05-2005, 06:54 PM
1. Roddick's serve relays a more on his arm
2. See the match again and notice how he landed after he jumped for serve. He was trying to avoid pain
And I'd say he really didn't move sideways too well, and the affected lower back-hip region doesn't hamper his serve that much except the landing :shrug:

Jennay
11-05-2005, 06:56 PM
1. Roddick's serve relays a more on his arm
2. See the match again and notice how he landed after he jumped for serve. He was trying to avoid pain
That, and his legs/knee bend. Andy said that the slice serve hurt him more than a flatter serve down the T did.

Fee
11-05-2005, 06:57 PM
Well, I'm a lousy recreational player and I've finished matches in pain, when I could barely move (I had to laugh once, I kind of pulled a hamstring and I was still hitting winners. I don't hit winners when I'm healthy!). If I can do it with nothing on the line except a cheesy little trophy, I can imagine that some of these guys can do it in more intense pain than that.

As for his specific injury, did he say it was a 'spine' thing? If so, I can imagine that impact moves and twisting hurt more than other types of movements.

DhammaTiger
11-05-2005, 07:06 PM
In my experience, I have lower back problems and have been playing tennis for a long time, when back pain erupts your serve is affected whether you arm the ball or not. Certainly it's impossible to serve at the same speed. Then again, roddick is a far, far better player than me, so, maybe he can compensate for the handicap effectively.

Nimi
11-05-2005, 07:09 PM
You do not fire 230 kph serves using only your arm.

It's just... It honestly looked like an excuse. If he could play through the pain and dealt with it fine - then the injury is not to blame. If he couldn't play through the pain - how the hell did he hit those kind of shots?

I do have to say he looked in pain. But despite that - he hit 10 huge aces and other huge serves consistently! It's too weird.

RodLo
11-05-2005, 07:51 PM
:lol:

tennischick
11-05-2005, 08:32 PM
Roddick unsure about Masters Cup because of back pain

By Patrick Vignal Sat Nov 5,11:54 AM ET

PARIS, Nov 5 (Reuters) - World number three Andy Roddick fears he could miss the year-end Masters Cup because of back pain.
ADVERTISEMENT

Roddick was hampered by a sore back during his 6-3 7-5 defeat by Croatian Ivan Ljubicic in the semi-finals of the Paris Masters.

The American, who received treatment twice during the match, had also suffered in his quarter-final win over Spaniard David Ferrer on Friday.

"I don't know," Roddick said on Saturday when asked whether the injury might force him to pull out of the eight-strong season finale from Nov. 13 in Shanghai.

"I hope not but, obviously, I'm not as optimistic as I was two days ago. I'll go back, we'll treat it and if I feel like I can go, I'll go. If not, then I won't."

Roddick had said after beating Ferrer that he might not play Saturday's semi-final. He did but the pain soon returned.

"It felt okay walking around earlier in the day but as soon as I started moving, it just really stiffened up and made it tough to move and hit my shots," he said.

"It's low back, it's just tight. The doctor used a bunch of medical terms I'm not intelligent enough to understand. We're going to evaluate it again here and when I get home." :confused: :confused:

The former world number one, who has won five tournaments this year, said he would love to go to Shanghai.

"Most of all it's an honour to qualify (for the Masters Cup)," he said.

"It's very prestigious. The fact that you only have a handful of guys that are allowed to play makes it really special.

"Obviously, I don't think it's on par with Davis Cup or with a grand slam but it's very important. It's almost like a celebration for the year."

Ljubicic grabbed the last ticket to the Masters Cup by qualifying for the semi-finals in Paris on Friday.

The Croatian joined Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Roddick, Lleyton Hewitt, Andre Agassi, Guillermo Coria and Nikolay Davydenko in the Shanghai field.

www.yahoo.com

PamV
11-05-2005, 09:07 PM
oh boy...:bolt:

You are a hoot PaulieM

PamV
11-05-2005, 09:11 PM
You do not fire 230 kph serves using only your arm.



ITA. When he serves he has to spring up and then land on one foot after the serve so that would jar his back.

almouchie
11-05-2005, 09:22 PM
roddick is too honest a player to do that kind of thing
nobody can fake an injury like that besides it may prevent him from going to shanghai

every1's body reacts differently to injuries

RonE
11-05-2005, 09:29 PM
From what I saw he was putting his hand on his hip. It mostly affected him visibly when he had to turn after being wrongfooted and it hampered his side to side movement. Perhaps it didn't affect his serve as much because he doesn't have to twist as much as he does when trying to scamper to hit a shot that has gone behind him. Just my two cents....

musefanatic
11-05-2005, 09:43 PM
Yeah i agree with you, i do find it slightly strange that it isn't affecting his serving though.

I hope this isn't too bad an injury, i don't see why he would have to fake it as he still won his last match with it but the serve is still something that makes me wonder...

nkhera1
11-05-2005, 09:44 PM
Why would he be faking?

R.Federer
11-05-2005, 10:00 PM
He should not have played and kept himself fit for T.M.C

On the other hand, this was a great opportunity to get a T.M.S and it would have been nice for him to be on the same board as Roge and nadal, as a winner of a 2005 T.M.S.

But it was risky, and now he may not even be in Shanghai. It is a costly decision. BUt hoepefully he is getting better soon.

euroka1
11-05-2005, 10:08 PM
He should not have played and kept himself fit for T.M.C

On the other hand, this was a great opportunity to get a T.M.S and it would have been nice for him to be on the same board as Roge and nadal, as a winner of a 2005 T.M.S.

But it was risky, and now he may not even be in Shanghai. It is a costly decision. BUt hoepefully he is getting better soon.

Agreed. If it was really serious, he should have retired yesterday. It was a big risk to take. Federer seems to be much more sensible about these things.

NYCtennisfan
11-05-2005, 10:18 PM
^You're probably right but it is very difficult to retire from a final.

wcr
11-05-2005, 10:33 PM
This is NOT A BASHING THREAD! Nothing in my question comes to offend Roddick or to praise Ivan or has relevance to the outcome of this match.

The question:

What kind of a back injury can harm your movement but does not hurt you while you are serving? Is this normal? Do you really believe this injury is a real one? It really looked quite odd to me, in both this match and the Ferrer match, in which Roddick moved quite well despite complaining on his back.

I injured my sacroiliac (left side). For some reason, it didn't affect my serving but it bothered me when I hit backhands (I'm a righty). And, it affected my movement. I'm not sure you can ever really get rid of a sacroiliac problem but if you strengthen your core you can minimize discomfort. Core work is important. A lot of work but worth it.

liptea
11-05-2005, 10:34 PM
Why would he be faking?

I've been wondering that ever since I woke up.

euroka1
11-05-2005, 10:53 PM
^You're probably right but it is very difficult to retire from a final.

Yes, but yesterday was a quarter final. It would have been a good time for a graceful exit. A smart player would have seen that the best outcome would be three intense matches on three successive days which would not be good for someone in that shape, if it was all that bad. As things were, Ferrer should have won it but he choked miserably.

mangoes
11-05-2005, 11:04 PM
Roddick unsure about Masters Cup because of back pain

By Patrick Vignal Sat Nov 5,11:54 AM ET

PARIS, Nov 5 (Reuters) - World number three Andy Roddick fears he could miss the year-end Masters Cup because of back pain.
ADVERTISEMENT

Roddick was hampered by a sore back during his 6-3 7-5 defeat by Croatian Ivan Ljubicic in the semi-finals of the Paris Masters.

The American, who received treatment twice during the match, had also suffered in his quarter-final win over Spaniard David Ferrer on Friday.

"I don't know," Roddick said on Saturday when asked whether the injury might force him to pull out of the eight-strong season finale from Nov. 13 in Shanghai.

"I hope not but, obviously, I'm not as optimistic as I was two days ago. I'll go back, we'll treat it and if I feel like I can go, I'll go. If not, then I won't."

Roddick had said after beating Ferrer that he might not play Saturday's semi-final. He did but the pain soon returned.

"It felt okay walking around earlier in the day but as soon as I started moving, it just really stiffened up and made it tough to move and hit my shots," he said.

"It's low back, it's just tight. The doctor used a bunch of medical terms I'm not intelligent enough to understand. We're going to evaluate it again here and when I get home." :confused: :confused:

The former world number one, who has won five tournaments this year, said he would love to go to Shanghai.

"Most of all it's an honour to qualify (for the Masters Cup)," he said.

"It's very prestigious. The fact that you only have a handful of guys that are allowed to play makes it really special.

"Obviously, I don't think it's on par with Davis Cup or with a grand slam but it's very important. It's almost like a celebration for the year."

Ljubicic grabbed the last ticket to the Masters Cup by qualifying for the semi-finals in Paris on Friday.

The Croatian joined Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, Roddick, Lleyton Hewitt, Andre Agassi, Guillermo Coria and Nikolay Davydenko in the Shanghai field.

www.yahoo.com

He is going home? Hhhhmmmmmmmm, if I were a suspicious person, I'd say Andy has no intention of playing in Shanghai, but I'm not a suspicious person ;)

tangerine_dream
11-05-2005, 11:16 PM
He should not have played and kept himself fit for T.M.C

I think Andy was between a rock and a hard place on this one. Andy was the only top 10 player to show up for Paris. Do you really think it would've gone over well (both with the Paris organizers and the media) if Andy decided to save his body for Shanghai and skip Paris? I don't think so. After all the other pull-outs, I'm sure he was under enormous pressure to carry Paris and Andy normally doesn't shirk from his obligations without a good excuse.

Nobody can forsee injuries happening. He fought through the Ferrer and Ljubicic matches probably hoping that whatever was tweaking his back would go away but it didn't. Credit to him for actually finishing the matches and not retiring. I just hope he didn't make the injury worse because if he has to skip Shanghai that would be a shame.

IDJ49
11-05-2005, 11:30 PM
He is going home? Hhhhmmmmmmmm, if I were a suspicious person, I'd say Andy has no intention of playing in Shanghai, but I'm not a suspicious person ;)
Shanghai doesn't start for over a week, where would he go between now and then even if he was completely healthy?

Viken01
11-05-2005, 11:39 PM
well i think it's like talking about nadal's injury in madrid and he enventually won it, i can't really undersand how it is possible :o (well i heard he was injured, maybe i'm wrong)

mangoes
11-05-2005, 11:49 PM
Shanghai doesn't start for over a week, where would he go between now and then even if he was completely healthy?


Well most players (Roger on Monday, Ljubicic on Monday or Tuesday) are heading to Shanghai this week, so I figured Andy would be heading there to start to accustom himself to the conditions and court in Shanghai. Flying back to the US and then to Shanghai is quite a lot........... But if it works for Andy, great for him.

revolution
11-05-2005, 11:57 PM
He should not have played and kept himself fit for T.M.C

On the other hand, this was a great opportunity to get a T.M.S and it would have been nice for him to be on the same board as Roge and nadal, as a winner of a 2005 T.M.S.

But it was risky, and now he may not even be in Shanghai. It is a costly decision. BUt hoepefully he is getting better soon.

He should have played, the TMS are required events and the top players should take part in them unless injured, just like the grand slams.

R.Federer
11-06-2005, 12:03 AM
He should have played, the TMS are required events and the top players should take part in them unless injured, just like the grand slams.
Sorry, when I said "he should not have played and kept him fit for T.M.C" I mean, after the quarter final and being injured in playing with Ferrer. After that match, he should stop and keep himself fit

IDJ49
11-06-2005, 12:04 AM
Well most players (Roger on Monday, Ljubicic on Monday or Tuesday) are heading to Shanghai this week, so I figured Andy would be heading there to start to accustom himself to the conditions and court in Shanghai. Flying back to the US and then to Shanghai is quite a lot........... But if it works for Andy, great for him.
Roger has been resting for awhile, and did Ljubicic say he was going straight to Shanghai? He said himself that he was very tired.

euroka1
11-06-2005, 12:05 AM
He should have played, the TMS are required events and the top players should take part in them unless injured, just like the grand slams.

But I thought he WAS injured?

R.Federer
11-06-2005, 12:08 AM
I think Andy was between a rock and a hard place on this one. Andy was the only top 10 player to show up for Paris. Do you really think it would've gone over well (both with the Paris organizers and the media) if Andy decided to save his body for Shanghai and skip Paris? I don't think so. After all the other pull-outs, I'm sure he was under enormous pressure to carry Paris and Andy normally doesn't shirk from his obligations without a good excuse.

No, I mean after getting the injry in the match with Ferrer he should have left and keep himself to recover for T.M.C, rather than try to play and win in Paris.

But I can also understand that this is a good opportunity for him to get a T.M.S in this year, so maybe he thought it is okay to play through the pain.

But I don't think he (or any other player) is putting their body through difficulty to help organizers and for obligations and sense of responsibility- it is for themselves, and this was a very good chance for andi to win a big title. He was the only one left from the Top 7.

Seleshfan
11-06-2005, 12:08 AM
nobody can fake an injury like that besides it may prevent him from going to shanghai
I beg to disagree. I've seen Serena fake injuries worthy of an ESPY, for best dramatic performance on a tennis court. Also, I was always suspicious of Andy's "cramps" against Chang at the French. He walked like he was just gang ***** between points, but ran fine when the points were played.....Now I'm not saying Andy was faking today, I'm just saying a back injury can be faked...

revolution
11-06-2005, 12:09 AM
But I thought he WAS injured?

Not before Ferrer match, so he was still right to take part.

mangoes
11-06-2005, 12:11 AM
Roger has been resting for awhile, and did Ljubicic say he was going straight to Shanghai? He said himself that he was very tired.

Ok, well obviously, I'm not a tennis genius like yourself, but I think it makes better sense for Ljubicic to head to Shanghai and get used to the conditions and court in Shanghai. As I said, I'm no tennis expert but I think it's to the players advantage to arrive in advance and have sufficient time to practice on the court, rest, and get accustomed to Shanghai.

Ljubicic has said he is heading to Shanghai on Monday or Tuesday.

acoffeygirl
11-06-2005, 12:20 AM
I beg to disagree. I've seen Serena fake injuries worthy of an ESPY, for best dramatic performance on a tennis court. Also, I was always suspicious of Andy's "cramps" against Chang at the French. He walked like he was just gang ***** between points, but ran fine when the points were played.....Now I'm not saying Andy was faking today, I'm just saying a back injury can be faked...

booooo! :( :p

IDJ49
11-06-2005, 12:24 AM
Trust me I am no tennis expert, I was just asking a question. I just found it odd that Ljubicic lives in Europe and would rather go straight to China then go home and rest for a few days, especially since he's been commenting about how tired he was. I've read that the surface in Paris is similar to the one being used in China so I don't how much more aquainted to the surface he could get. As for Federer he probably would want to get there early to get some rust off. But that's just my opinion.

mangoes
11-06-2005, 12:39 AM
Trust me I am no tennis expert, I was just asking a question. I just found it odd that Ljubicic lives in Europe and would rather go straight to China then go home and rest for a few days, especially since he's been commenting about how tired he was. I've read that the surface in Paris is similar to the one being used in China so I don't how much more aquainted to the surface he could get. As for Federer he probably would want to get there early to get some rust off. But that's just my opinion.


Well, I think it is to a player's advantage to arrive early for a tournament so I think Ljubicic is thinking the very same thing. The commentators during the Madrid Masters on the Tennis Channel made mention of the fact, in a rather negative manner, that Andy was on the same flight as them coming to Madrid. They found it strange that he would arrive so very late for the tournament.

IDJ49
11-06-2005, 12:49 AM
I agree it's to their advantage but in Ljubicic's case I wonder if it's the smartest decision considering how much he has been playing and the fact that he has commented more than once about being fatigued. But what do I know? I saw the same match you did, I think it was the first day of coverage, and was shocked to find out the Andy arrived to Madrid so late. Especially since he doesn't traditonally play well in Europe, but I guess that explains his 2nd round loss there.

euroka1
11-06-2005, 01:13 AM
Not before Ferrer match, so he was still right to take part.

But during the match yes, and there was on the spot medical evidence for the injury. He would have been wise to retire.

mangoes
11-06-2005, 01:28 AM
I agree it's to their advantage but in Ljubicic's case I wonder if it's the smartest decision considering how much he has been playing and the fact that he has commented more than once about being fatigued. But what do I know? I saw the same match you did, I think it was the first day of coverage, and was shocked to find out the Andy arrived to Madrid so late. Especially since he doesn't traditonally play well in Europe, but I guess that explains his 2nd round loss there.

I understand, but I think it's to Ljubicic's advantage to arrive early, rest and prepare in Shanghai.

nobama
11-06-2005, 04:30 AM
Why would he be faking?Does anyone besides the Roddick haters think he was faking? :shrug:

nobama
11-06-2005, 04:35 AM
Roger has been resting for awhile, and did Ljubicic say he was going straight to Shanghai? He said himself that he was very tired.There was a news story (can't find it now :( ) that said when some of the players were arriving in Shanghai, and Fed was expected to arrive on Nov 6.

nobama
11-06-2005, 04:36 AM
I think Andy was between a rock and a hard place on this one. Andy was the only top 10 player to show up for Paris. Do you really think it would've gone over well (both with the Paris organizers and the media) if Andy decided to save his body for Shanghai and skip Paris? I don't think so. After all the other pull-outs, I'm sure he was under enormous pressure to carry Paris and Andy normally doesn't shirk from his obligations without a good excuse.

Nobody can forsee injuries happening. He fought through the Ferrer and Ljubicic matches probably hoping that whatever was tweaking his back would go away but it didn't. Credit to him for actually finishing the matches and not retiring. I just hope he didn't make the injury worse because if he has to skip Shanghai that would be a shame. :yeah:

mandoura
11-06-2005, 06:00 AM
From what I saw he was putting his hand on his hip. It mostly affected him visibly when he had to turn after being wrongfooted and it hampered his side to side movement. Perhaps it didn't affect his serve as much because he doesn't have to twist as much as he does when trying to scamper to hit a shot that has gone behind him. Just my two cents....

Yes RonE, that would be my two cents too.

I don't believe he was faking.

mandoura
11-06-2005, 06:07 AM
I think Andy was between a rock and a hard place on this one. Andy was the only top 10 player to show up for Paris. Do you really think it would've gone over well (both with the Paris organizers and the media) if Andy decided to save his body for Shanghai and skip Paris? I don't think so. After all the other pull-outs, I'm sure he was under enormous pressure to carry Paris and Andy normally doesn't shirk from his obligations without a good excuse.

Nobody can forsee injuries happening. He fought through the Ferrer and Ljubicic matches probably hoping that whatever was tweaking his back would go away but it didn't. Credit to him for actually finishing the matches and not retiring. I just hope he didn't make the injury worse because if he has to skip Shanghai that would be a shame.

Indeed.