New Game Request: SUICIDE TENNIS! [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

New Game Request: SUICIDE TENNIS!

tangerine_dream
09-14-2005, 09:34 PM
I don't know where exactly to post this but Gravity suggested I float it around to see if anyone would be interested in playing this so here it is:

I saw this on the si.com site and thought it would make a great addition to the Games section here, and we could bet vcash on it too which would make it even more fun. :D

Basically, you chose a player every day who you think will advance. The catch: You can only use each player once. So if you'd picked, say, Kim Clijsters, in day one, you'd be in trouble.

Here's the "official" description from the original site:

http://www.talkabouttennis.com/TAT_...oard=suicideuso

Suicide pools are a very simple concept that test your ability not only to pick a winner, but to project your winner through the ups and downs of a draw. You'll also have to know what players can easily win an early round match for you, but can be counted on (at least by yourself) to falter as you go through the 14 days of a Slam.

For each day of play, you have to pick 1 - yes, just one - winner each for the Men's side and one for the Women's side. That is out of all the matches played that day.

But, once you pick someone, you cannot choose them again for the rest of the tournament. So you really don't want to pick a Federer to win in early matches.

To survive in the suicide pool, you will have to have gone through 14 successive days of picking a winner. Sure it may sound easy (and probably will be) on the first few days of play - but as you get deeper into the draws, you have to start picking based on not only who you think will win, but who is likely to lose down the road. And remember, if you are still alive come semi-final time, you are not only picking who you think would win a semi, but also who would lose the final, since you could not pick the same player again.

Picks will begin with the release of the Order of Play for Day 1 - you will have until play begins on Day 1 to make your selection. Subsequently, you can pick your Day 2 winner as soon as the Day 2 order of play is announced, and so on.

Lisbeth
09-14-2005, 11:45 PM
I would be interested!

I<3Lindsay
09-14-2005, 11:49 PM
sounds interesting! I have a question though:

Say i pick, umm... Murray to win in round 1, and he wins, so i keep picking right?
What if i pick like Blake to win round 2 and he loses? Am i out for the whole tournament? Just on the men's side? Can i keep picking???

And when you say 14 days, do you mean that this will only be done for grand slams???

SwissMister1
09-15-2005, 03:39 AM
I would try it out. I did one of these things for the NFL last year, it is fun.

PaulieM
09-15-2005, 04:21 AM
yeah i read about that in wertheim's column, sounds like fun.

its.like.that
09-15-2005, 05:45 AM
hrmmm... ok, let's see it in action, if it's any good, I shall spread the word.

tangerine_dream
09-15-2005, 08:44 PM
Whoo! It got it's own thread. I guess people like the idea. :cool:

Now we just need to figure out how to start it. :lol: I'm still trying to find more information about it. Apparently it's played only during slams but maybe we could do it during the masters, too. Did anybody check out the link I posted?

Denaon
09-16-2005, 04:50 PM
I haven't checked that link, I'll do it later. I have a question, when you said masters you mean TMC or any masters series? We cannot play this game only 5 times a year. :confused:

PaulieM
09-21-2005, 03:24 AM
Whoo! It got it's own thread. I guess people like the idea. :cool:

Now we just need to figure out how to start it. :lol: I'm still trying to find more information about it. Apparently it's played only during slams but maybe we could do it during the masters, too. Did anybody check out the link I posted?
from what i understand of how it works i don't see why it couldn't work with any tournament. when this gets up and running i'd love to play. :)

Ferrero Forever
09-22-2005, 08:10 AM
this sounds really good. I'd like to play

azza
09-22-2005, 04:09 PM
Fun do it :)

tangerine_dream
09-22-2005, 08:46 PM
IheartDavenport, yes, if you pick a player who wins, then you are still in the game and can keep picking. But you can’t pick the same player again once you’ve used him.
If you pick a player and he loses, then you are out of the game.
If you make it to the semis and find that both semifinalists are players that you’ve already picked, then you are out of the game.

I think this game could also work for tournaments other than slams. I am thinking of trying it out during one of the upcoming masters series events instead of waiting for AO. This game is new to me too so I think we can take some liberties with this game and make any amendments to it that would be make it better. I’m open to suggestions. :)

Using the current rules set forth, to see exactly how one would play this game, let’s choose last year’s Basel tournament as an example:

The first round of 32 was played out over two days. The picks are made PER DAY not per round. So on the first day, we would pick one player from the top half of the draw and then on the next day we would pick one player from the bottom half of the draw.

Davidoff Swiss Indoors Basel

This is the top half of the draw for day one. I will pick Dent:


DAY ONE MATCHES – ROUND of 32
Novak - Mayer
Robredo - Wawrinka
Srichaphan - Koubek
Ulihrach - Horna
Heuberger - Dent
Gaudio - Norman
Zabaleta – Hanescu

This is the bottom half of the draw on day two. I decide to pick Nadal:
DAY TWO MATCHES – ROUND of 32
Kratochvil - Massu
Nalbandian - Ancic
Volandri - Spadea
Montanes - Chiudinelli
Nadal - Schuettler
Gonzalez - Haehnel
Chela - Ljubicic
Starace - Moodie
Henman – Dupuis

Now I am already in trouble because the results came in and Nadal crashed out, beaten by Schuettler. Dent won his match but it doesn’t matter because my other pick went down. So I would be out of the game.

Instead of choosing Nadal, say I decide to play Nalbandian instead:
DAY TWO MATCHES – ROUND of 32
Kratochvil - Massu
Nalbandian - Ancic
Volandri - Spadea
Montanes - Chiudinelli
Nadal - Schuettler
Gonzalez - Haehnel
Chela - Ljubicic
Starace - Moodie
Henman – Dupuis

Now I am still in the game because the results came in and both Dent and Nalbandian made it through their first round. But I cannot pick either one of these players again. Choosing Nalbandian early on may end up being trouble for me down the line though…

For my next pick on Day Three, I decide to go with Novak:
DAY THREE MATCHES – ROUND of 16
Heuberger - Ulihrach
Gaudio - Koubek
Nalbandian - Spadea
Schuettler - Chiudinelli
Massu - Zabaleta
Ljubicic - Haehnel
Robredo - Novak
Moodie - Henman

The results come in and Novak has won his match. Yippee! I’m still in the game.

For Day Four, I choose Koubek:
DAY FOUR MATCHES – QUARTERFINALS
Ljubicic – Koubek
Zabaleta - Ulihrach
Henman - Novak
Nalbandian - Schuettler

Results come in and I am dancing like a banana :banana: because Koubek won and I am still alive. But now I’m getting concerned because my earlier picks have also made it through their matches and I’m running out of players to pick. :scared:

Ugh! Day Five and three of my prior picks made it this far. I have no choice but to go for Massu. Whether he wins or not it doesn’t matter, I will be out of the game before the finals because I will have no one left to pick.
DAY FIVE MATCHES – SEMIFINALS
Koubek - Novak
Massu – Nalbandian

Now if I had chosen a lower-ranked dark horse player in the earlier rounds, I could’ve saved my Nalbandian or Novak pick for a later round and for what was eventually the final.
DAY SIX MATCHES – FINAL
Nalbandian – Novak

Corey Feldman
09-22-2005, 09:04 PM
good game tangy..
id play it!

nokidding
09-24-2005, 08:10 PM
It seems fun ! I guess we'll need time to adjust to the rules but I want to play :)

mandoura
09-27-2005, 01:32 PM
Can I play too? Sounds like fun.

tangerine_dream
09-30-2005, 03:33 PM
NEW RULE
If a player you picked withdraws/retires before or during match play, then you are out of the game.

Now would be a good time to figure out how we're going to deal with players who withdrawn from a match before it's played, a la Hewitt today before his match with Srichaphan. I haven't seen this situation addressed at that other board's game play so we'll need to come up with a solution for this because it's going to happen again in other tournaments.

As it stands now, if a player retires during a match, then the original pick still stands and the person who picked him would be out of the game.

But what if someone picks a player who withdraws from a match for whatever reason before the match begins?

I am thinking that because the match didn't start then the person should be allowed to pick another player. I'm using the same logic as those gambling sites: you lose money on a player who retires, but you get your money back if the player withdraws before the match. ;)

Does this sound good to everyone? I will add the rule here.

bad gambler
10-01-2005, 08:28 AM
yep that seems fair to me :wavey:

Angle Queen
10-01-2005, 12:30 PM
NEW RULE
You will be allowed to pick a new player if a player withdraws before match play.

Now would be a good time to figure out how we're going to deal with players who withdrawn from a match before it's played, a la Hewitt today before his match with Srichaphan. I haven't seen this situation addressed at that other board's game play so we'll need to come up with a solution for this because it's going to happen again in other tournaments.

As it stands now, if a player retires during a match, then the original pick still stands and the person who picked him would be out of the game.

But what if someone picks a player who withdraws from a match for whatever reason before the match begins?

I am thinking that because the match didn't start then the person should be allowed to pick another player. I'm using the same logic as those gambling sites: you lose money on a player who retires, but you get your money back if the player withdraws before the match. ;)

Does this sound good to everyone? I will add the rule here.
I'd say that makes sense to me...as long as the 'suicider' makes another pick before match play begins (cause it wouldn't necessarily be the player who got the walkover). Thanks again...tangy...for running the game. It's been fun and the strategy interesting. What I've boiled it down to is: pick some you think will win that round...then lose in the next...and leave Roger for the final day. :lol:

buddyholly
10-01-2005, 12:47 PM
I think there is not enough time. If someone doesn't walk out on court for the last match of the day, then it is impossible to pick someone else.
I think the picks should stand. You will have all kinds of problems trying to sort out who got in on time if you allow substitutions. And such happenings should be part of a game that is called SUICIDE. Withdrawing five minutes before the match and retiring after the first point are much the same thing.
The only way I see around it, if you don't want to play real suicide is to allow a ''substitute'' pick each day. If your first pick plays, the substitute selected is still eligible to be chosen later. If your selection and substitute selection both fail to show up, then it is just another ''fixed'' tourney obviously.

Angle Queen
10-01-2005, 02:50 PM
Nice counter argument, Buddy. It isn't called 'Suicide' for nothing. The substitute idea has merit I think it might be too much to keep up with. Simple works better.

tangerine_dream
10-01-2005, 06:36 PM
Thanks for your input everyone. :wavey: Good point, buddyholly. But if a player withdraws the day before play (as opposed to an hour before play), allowing us time to pick another, should the original pick still stand?

Angle Queen
10-02-2005, 12:55 AM
Thanks for your input everyone. :wavey: Good point, buddyholly. But if a player withdraws the day before play (as opposed to an hour before play), allowing us time to pick another, should the original pick still stand?To keep it simple, Tangy...I think a pick is a pick. So if you're worried about a withdrawal...it'd behoove the suicider to wait (but not too long, of course) to see who might drop out.

tangerine_dream
10-03-2005, 03:45 PM
Thanks again for the input everyone. After sleeping on it and thinking about it some more, I think you are right that it'll be better in the long run to treat the withdrawals the same as a retirement: in other words, you're out.

So it's probably best that people wait to make their picks, especially if they know a certain player become sick or injured during one match and is likely to withdraw before the next.

It will also cut down on the confusion that's bound to happen if it occurs, especially during slams when there are so many players to keep track off in the first rounds.

I hate to do this one after blabbing about the huge vcash award but it must be clarified now:

NEW VCASH RULE
Per Gravity: $20 per entrant will be put into the pot via Bank of MTF. Winner takes all. Multiple winners split the pot.
There was some miscommunication between what Gravity had told Amanda and then what Amanda told me, so the vcash award won't be nearly as large as I'd previously stated (damn!). This entry fee costs the players absolutely nothing, it is courtesy of the Bank of MTF. So if there are 40 entrants for a game, then the vcash pot would be $800. Still a nice chunk of change, especially for the many here who don't really gamble but like to see their vcash numbers go up anyway. ;)

The other hitch is that in order for an entrant to win this pot, s/he must have picked a winner every day of the tournament. No off days, no I-forgot days, no sick days, no nothing. It's more fair this way to the people who do show up and make their picks every day. If an entrant knows s/he won't be around on MTF to make the day's pick on time, they can e-mail their pick to me (click on my profile for e-mail addy). The time and date of the e-mail will prove that they've made the pick before match play. :)

Denaon
10-04-2005, 03:30 PM
I have one question:

What if noone reaches the final and wins, what would happen to the vcash reward?
Is there a way to add that vcash to the amount collected from the fee entrance for the next Suicide tourney? I'm pretty sure it'll be really hard for any of us to win the pot, so it might increase every week and eventually be a huge amount and of course someone will finally win it....:D

Or how about giving the last who stands "alive" in the tourney, if he/she doesn't win it, a consoling vcash award for being the "winner" (or is it that Winner is only the one that wins the tourney?)

tangerine_dream
10-04-2005, 03:40 PM
I have one question:

What if noone reaches the final and wins, what would happen to the vcash reward?
Is there a way to add that vcash to the amount collected from the fee entrance for the next Suicide tourney? I'm pretty sure it'll be really hard for any of us to win the pot, so it might increase every week and eventually be a huge amount and of course someone will finally win it....:D
I'm working with Gravity on this and as of now we've decided that if no one wins the vcash pot this week, then a portion of that pot will be rolled over into next week's suicide game. If no one wins that one then a percentage of the pot will keep rolling over until eventually someone wins. It'll be like hitting the lottery. :D

And there's no fee to pay: the entry "fee" of $20 per participant comes courtesy of the Bank of MTF, the total of which becomes the winning pot. :yippee:

Denaon
10-04-2005, 03:45 PM
I'm working with Gravity on this and as of now we've decided that if no one wins the vcash pot this week, then a portion of that pot will be rolled over into next week's suicide game. If no one wins that one then a percentage of the pot will keep rolling over until eventually someone wins. It'll be like hitting the lottery. :D

And there's no fee to pay: the entry "fee" of $20 per participant comes courtesy of the Bank of MTF, the total of which becomes the winning pot. :yippee:
:cool: I love the idea :yeah:
:scratch: I assumed, except Suicide Japan, we would have to pay for entering any tourney :confused: Or am I reading bad? Oh, sometimes I wish I could read it all in spanish and not misundertand things :lol:

tangerine_dream
10-05-2005, 04:17 PM
:cool: I love the idea :yeah:
:scratch: I assumed, except Suicide Japan, we would have to pay for entering any tourney :confused:
At the moment, the entry fee comes from Bank of MTF. :)

tangerine_dream
10-06-2005, 02:58 AM
Here is a great example of one of those nightmare rain delay situations we have going on:

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=2437451&postcount=1

I am going to sleep on this problem some more but it was my understanding of the original Suicide game that participants can only make picks from new matches and not from rescheduled matches.

However, it was also my understanding that we are to make picks per DAY and not per round. In other words, if the R32 matches were rescheduled to play the same day as the R16 matches, then participants can pick any player for that day, as long as it wasn't a player that they had already picked.

This situation is further complicated when some of our participant's matches have completed and won their picks while others are still waiting for their matches to be completed before they decide to make a pick. The game no longer feels like it's on a level playing field if some participants are moving right along while others may feel like they're stuck in the back seat.

Right now, I am leaning towards having everybody pick a player from both the new and rescheduled matches instead of having them pick only from the new matches. For Day Four of the Japan Open, there are only three new matches to pick from whereas there are eight rescheduled matches. Allowing them to pick from both new and rescheduled will give the participants more to play with.

On the other hand, this game isn't called SUICIDE for nothing.

Gah. Still in a quandry....any opinions/ideas/comments?

LaTenista
10-06-2005, 04:47 PM
Question: I see from your sig there are two Suicide Tournaments next week. Are we allowed to play both or do we have to choose just one?

:p This game is harder than PAW but I agree it will be fun if I can actually get a correct day 1 pick. :o

tangerine_dream
10-06-2005, 04:49 PM
Hi LaTenista :wavey: Yes, I am going to host two suicide games next week and you can enter both. They are indoors so I don't have to worry about rain delays messing up the OOP :scared: ;)

tangerine_dream
10-06-2005, 04:55 PM
Continuing on the nightmare rain delay issues I posted above, I've now just discovered that a match that was not on the OOP or scheduled at all did in fact play (Ancic vs Saulnier, Japan Open. It was a last-minute rescheduled match where Saulnier ended up playing two matches in one day) last night. As a result, only one paticipant was able to make his pick from the four new matches whereas everyone else had to pick from only three matches. :(

Obviously, I don't want this to happen as it is unfair to everyone playing. But it's difficult to avoid because people live in different time zones and I'm not one of those caffeinated individuals who can stay up all night watching matches. I have a job and therefore need my sleep. :zzz: ;)

Just another issue I will need to find a solution for very soon...

Angle Queen
10-06-2005, 04:58 PM
I am going to sleep on this problem some more but it was my understanding of the original Suicide game that participants can only make picks from new matches and not from rescheduled matches.

However, it was also my understanding that we are to make picks per DAY and not per round. In other words, if the R32 matches were rescheduled to play the same day as the R16 matches, then participants can pick any player for that day, as long as it wasn't a player that they had already picked.

...

Right now, I am leaning towards having everybody pick a player from both the new and rescheduled matches instead of having them pick only from the new matches. For Day Four of the Japan Open, there are only three new matches to pick from whereas there are eight rescheduled matches. Allowing them to pick from both new and rescheduled will give the participants more to play with.

On the other hand, this game isn't called SUICIDE for nothing.

Gah. Still in a quandry....any opinions/ideas/comments?Indeed, a difficult situation. But, just my opinion now, I like the way you handled it for Japan. The Day Three Picks stood (but just waited for completion) and all prospective contestants had to make Day Four Picks from the sole 'new' matches for that day. If their Day Three Picks didn't win, their Day Four picks were immaterial.

I know it's kind of a bummer when there's only three 'new' matches in a day, but all would be playing with the same set of rules.

Again, all your efforts on this one are greatly appreciated.

Angle Queen
10-06-2005, 04:59 PM
Continuing on the nightmare rain delay issues I posted above, I've now just discovered that a match that was not on the OOP or scheduled at all did in fact play (Ancic vs Saulnier, Japan Open. It was a last-minute rescheduled match where Saulnier ended up playing two matches in one day) last night. As a result, only one paticipant was able to make his pick from the four new matches whereas everyone else had to pick from only three matches. :(

Obviously, I don't want this to happen as it is unfair to everyone playing. But it's difficult to avoid because people live in different time zones and I'm not one of those caffeinated individuals who can stay up all night watching matches. I have a job and therefore need my sleep. :zzz: ;)

Just another issue I will need to find a solution for very soon...I wouldn't sweat this one, Tang. I'd go with the tournament site's posted OOP for your thread. If contestants want to do their own homework (and/or stay up late looking for every option)...that's up to them.

Lee
10-06-2005, 05:46 PM
Continuing on the nightmare rain delay issues I posted above, I've now just discovered that a match that was not on the OOP or scheduled at all did in fact play (Ancic vs Saulnier, Japan Open. It was a last-minute rescheduled match where Saulnier ended up playing two matches in one day) last night. As a result, only one paticipant was able to make his pick from the four new matches whereas everyone else had to pick from only three matches. :(

Obviously, I don't want this to happen as it is unfair to everyone playing. But it's difficult to avoid because people live in different time zones and I'm not one of those caffeinated individuals who can stay up all night watching matches. I have a job and therefore need my sleep. :zzz: ;)

Just another issue I will need to find a solution for very soon...

You're doing a great job and thank you for that. There's always the time zone issue and rain delay. I believe all participants will understand.

Again, thanks!

mandoura
10-07-2005, 01:22 AM
You're doing great tangy. Don't worry about it. :)

+alonso
10-07-2005, 04:21 AM
Tangy simply rocks.. She is doing a great/amazing job..:yeah: thanks

tangerine_dream
10-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Thanks so much for the encouragement everyone :hug: :D I appreciate your feedback and comments. :cool:

I think I've found a way to kill two birds with one stone: from now on I will have everyone name the match and not just the winner. For instance, instead of someone picking "Dent" they will now say "Dent over Arthurs."

This will eliminate confusion in case a player ends up playing two matches in the same day, for whatever reason (most likely due to rain :rain: )

This will also help in those strange cases where matches are played in the middle of night but said matches were not scheduled, not on the website, nor on the OOP, and therefore would not be in my list of picks for people to choose from. This should satisfy the hardy individuals who keep an eye on the scoreboard all night long while the rest of us are sleeping.

its.like.that
10-08-2005, 12:58 AM
Tangy - you need to pay attention to the times that matches start - as its obvious that people like Virex cannot be trusted.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?p=2453154#post2453154

tangerine_dream
10-08-2005, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the heads-up, Jim. I tend to take people's word for it. It's just a game after all, but I will pay more attention now to start times and times of when people post their picks. :cool:

I'm so glad I decided to start this game with the smaller tournaments. It gives us a chance to work the kinks out before the next slam, where small problems could end up becoming big problems.

Next suicide games will be for Kremlin and Stockholm which are indoors. Yeeha! No rain. :yippee: My personal goal is to make it out of the first round this time. :lol:

Lee
10-08-2005, 09:08 PM
About the problem with timing. I have a suggestion, tangy. For everyday pick, put a GMT time deadline when you post your thread. It's not difficult to find out what's the GMT time as it's on livescore.com

RickDaStick
10-14-2005, 08:25 PM
Where is then next game, I want to play.

Denaon
10-14-2005, 08:32 PM
Where is then next game, I want to play.
TMS Madrid will be next!!!! I can't wait to play again!! :bounce:

Aurora
10-15-2005, 10:10 PM
I'm in too, got interested because of the vcash thing, but after reading I've understood I'll never ever make that (well maybe in a distant future in an obscure tournament). But the interesting way of the game intrigues me: you constantly gotta have the whole of the draw in your head, making small steps in a web of matches that lead to one central point. :yeah: great stuff!

tangerine_dream
10-17-2005, 02:59 PM
blacklilly, Ivan, and Fed_Ex, you are all more than welcome to come play. :D

NEW ISSUE - Late Picks

How to deal with late picks?

I think I state very clearly that I want people to get their picks in before the day's match play begins and not before the match they want to pick for begins.

It's not fair for some people who are chronically late with their pick to continue playing when everyone else got theirs in on time.

So I will amend the rules: I understand that people have lives outside of MTF, and so I will allow a participant to make one late pick (providing that there's more than one match left to be played and that they do not pick from a match that is either in progress and has already been completed) but after that, they will be disqualified.

Host/hostess reserves the right to disqualify a participant(s) if host/ess believes that said participant(s) are abusing the one late pick rule. For instance, if the participant(s) are posting around on MTF all day long and then make their late pick at the very last moment, participant(s) could be disqualified for gamesmanship.

Once the game progresses to the quarterfinals, late picks will not be allowed at all, whether it's your first or last offense.

tangerine_dream
10-24-2005, 08:14 PM
NEW ISSUE - SUICIDE MANAGERS

You've started a really addictive game tangy, you should consider to have Suicide Managers just as PAW does. ST will be played as much as PAW for sure :)
:secret: But I think you should keep GSs and/or TMSs for you if you want to run them for fun :D

This is a good idea, Denaon. I'll think on this a bit and then we'll come up with an idea of how to go about picking suicide managers when Paris Masters is starts. :)

+alonso
10-25-2005, 02:45 AM
What's up with Basel, Tangy?? :confused:

Deboogle!.
01-02-2006, 01:21 PM
WHERE IS SUICIDE TENNIS, Tangy???????? HMPH!

Peta Pan
01-02-2006, 01:37 PM
Yeah I was wondering too!! :( :p

superhoops
01-04-2006, 08:02 PM
Is there anyway someone would be able to start off the first few tournmentd until Tangy returns as this was a quick and very addicitive game. Maybe 1 person does each of the events next week and hopefully Tangy will be back for the AO.

Phunkadelicious
01-05-2006, 07:06 AM
I think I'll give this a shot... if it gets back up and running that is.

Deboogle!.
01-05-2006, 02:46 PM
Is there anyway someone would be able to start off the first few tournmentd until Tangy returns as this was a quick and very addicitive game. Maybe 1 person does each of the events next week and hopefully Tangy will be back for the AO.She will be back for the AO, we asked and got an answer:lol:. She probably wouldn't mind someone running a game for next week, just PM her and ask her or something :)

superhoops
01-08-2006, 05:30 PM
GoGoBang why don't you run one of the tournies starting tomorrow (Monday).

rob88hock
08-08-2006, 12:25 AM
isnt this almost impossible