The Agassi vs. Ginepri thread [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The Agassi vs. Ginepri thread

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 05:32 PM
for those who can't watch

zimzim
09-10-2005, 05:34 PM
Come on Agassi!

madmanfool
09-10-2005, 05:45 PM
Ginepri looks nervous to me

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-10-2005, 05:46 PM
go Robby:woohoo: break him!

Scotso
09-10-2005, 05:55 PM
Ginepri! :bounce:

c'mon baby!

fenomeno2111
09-10-2005, 05:56 PM
Ginepri is playing good tennis...I think he has a chance and he's in better shape than Andre...Ginepri on sunday is not a crazy thought he could make it!

Scotso
09-10-2005, 05:59 PM
until now :retard:

Viken01
09-10-2005, 05:59 PM
*5-4 Agassi :)

Castafiore
09-10-2005, 06:00 PM
No idea who to support for. Ginepri just got broken.

Unimportant comment: Agassi's outfit is tragically bad IMO. Can't Adidas give him something better?

musefanatic
09-10-2005, 06:04 PM
First set agassi! Well done! Keep up the good work.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 06:04 PM
generally equal level of play. agassi stepped it up at 4 all and broke. Robby should have seen that coming. But now agassi is up a break. Don't think he will steamroll and Robby probably needed first set to get his jitters out.

Scotso
09-10-2005, 06:04 PM
Ginepri handed it to him. Hopefully he'll play better from now on. :(

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 06:09 PM
why is the crowd so one-sided? Both are Americans surely they dont mind cheering for Rob also?

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 06:12 PM
Okay now : "Best returner in the world" mentioned 3 times already by John McEnroe. How is it that the best returner in the world is also the one easiest to ace? Fewer aces get by leyton and Roge --so aren't they the best returners? What is that? agassi was the best returner during Pete's time, but for 2-3 years he has not been

sigmagirl91
09-10-2005, 06:13 PM
cuz he has all the emotion of a broke down robot

Robby is like "duh".:retard:

kalle
09-10-2005, 06:14 PM
camoon robby!!

Scotso
09-10-2005, 06:18 PM
Ginepri breaks and hands it right back. Typical :(

Scotso
09-10-2005, 06:22 PM
three break points gone :rolleyes:

especially infuriating since that ball was in :)

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 06:23 PM
The match quality is really nothing special. A lot of very standard baseline rallies, MANY more UE's than winners (I haven't checked the stats but it sure seems like that). Some good returns from both but that's about it

Scotso
09-10-2005, 06:24 PM
Ginepri is just giving it away :( fight Robby!

Scotso
09-10-2005, 06:25 PM
Ginepri is :confused:

He hits a stupid error followed by a brilliant winner. C'mon Robby!

lol another one.

i quit!

Scotso
09-10-2005, 06:30 PM
I wish Dick Enberg would shut the hell up. He's becoming Captain Obvious.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 06:51 PM
Oh Sh*t! I just went to heat something in the microwave and come back and its a set a piece!

So if anyone wants agassi to lose, just ask me to reheat something in the microwave :)

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 06:52 PM
Congradulations, Andre you fucking loser. You just lost a set to Ginperi, giving him all kinds of confidence and momentum.

Even if you dig deep and somehow pull off this match... Guess what? You have no time to recover for Federer and Roger is watching this match laughing his ASS OFF - as in, "what, are you kidding me? I'll double-bagel this old man the way he is taking care of his serve...!"

Once again, Andre's backhand is extremely overrated. When he is on the run or is lunging at 2nd kick-serves because he is standing too damn close, it's ineffective

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 06:56 PM
Oh and....Andre? You need to serve 70% 1st serve or better.

50% for YOU is suicide.

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 06:57 PM
Ok, now Ginepri is feeling good even about his BACKHAND!

Well, done Zen Master - gave the emotional momentum right back...

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 06:59 PM
Andre has 1 backhand winner to, like, 15 or more backhand UE...

wow, it just cost him another break...

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:00 PM
Congradulations, Andre you fucking loser. You just lost a set to Ginperi, giving him all kinds of confidence and momentum.

Once again, Andre's backhand is extremely overrated. When he is on the run or is lunging at 2nd kick-serves because he is standing too damn close, it's ineffective

You might be in a position to answer this, since you appear to be a balanced (but otherwise irritable) andre fan: why is andre known as the best returner if he is easy to ace? Do you even agree with it? Aren't Roge and leyton the best returners? (And yes, andre's BH has misfired very much since 2nd set)

fenomeno2111
09-10-2005, 07:02 PM
Anybody misses Nadal and Roddick???? CUZ I DO!!!!!

Lee
09-10-2005, 07:02 PM
Wow, haven't seen that many moonballs in men's tennis for a quite sometime.

mickymouse
09-10-2005, 07:03 PM
Ginepri is crazy to think that he can put Agassi off with those crazy moonballs. He should try to move Agassi around instead of letting Agassi dictate play.

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 07:04 PM
Congradulations, Andre you fucking loser. You just lost a set to Ginperi, giving him all kinds of confidence and momentum.

Even if you dig deep and somehow pull off this match... Guess what? You have no time to recover for Federer and Roger is watching this match laughing his ASS OFF - as in, "what, are you kidding me? I'll double-bagel this old man the way he is taking care of his serve...!"

Once again, Andre's backhand is extremely overrated. When he is on the run or is lunging at 2nd kick-serves because he is standing too damn close, it's ineffective

:scratch: I disagree with you on the BH but :eek: you call yourself an Agassi fan with all the F words you are saying to the old man :o

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 07:08 PM
Footwork, Andre, footwork - those passing shots aren't gonna come just because you WANT them to or because you USED TO hit them from all parts of the court.

Bottomline, Andre is not playing Championship level tennis. I can live with him not hitting a shitload of winners like he used, but damn those unfoced and forced errors are too plentiful in his side to have ANY chance of beating Federer even IF he gets by Ginepri.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:08 PM
he will ultimately get by ginepri. but I am not sure he will be left with too much energy.

RogiFan88
09-10-2005, 07:12 PM
what's taking Baldy so long?

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 07:12 PM
Is any way for Andre to sell his useless, timid backhand and buy a carbon copy of his still-decent forehand to replace it?

Plese say 'yes'

mickymouse
09-10-2005, 07:13 PM
Agassi looks very tired. Even if he goes through, which I'm sure he will, I doubt he will have much gas left for either Hewitt or Federer.

Lee
09-10-2005, 07:14 PM
Ginepri is crazy to think that he can put Agassi off with those crazy moonballs. He should try to move Agassi around instead of letting Agassi dictate play.

It's easier said than done ;)

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:15 PM
what I don't understand is why Nadal isn't mentioned along side Agassi's return of serve now, i mean his return may not be as aggressive but if i am not mistaken he leads most of the return of serve statistics this year. He has broken on average more than anyone else this year.

Is that right? I did know he has held serve a lot/most, but not that he broke serve. Also, you must qualify such a statistic by noting that he has played more than 50% of all his matches on clay where it is much much easier to break than on hard/grass/rebound/anything else.
I think his return is good, but it is not great outside of clay.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:16 PM
Is that right? I did know he has held serve a lot/most, but not that he broke serve. Also, you must qualify such a statistic by noting that he has played more than 50% of all his matches on clay where it is much much easier to break than on hard/grass/rebound/anything else.
I think his return is good, but it is not great outside of clay.

good point

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:20 PM
:bounce: 2 sets to 1 agassi :bounce:

ginepri :smash:

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:22 PM
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/default.asp

Nadal leads 3/4 return serve stats

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 07:22 PM
Thanks, Robby, for playing like shit in the 1st and 3rd sets. Hopefully you play even worse/stupider in the 4th. Baldy needs it.

Best regards, AgassiFan.

nobama
09-10-2005, 07:26 PM
Could Dick Enberg be more annoying. I'm sorry but he needs to shut up. Amazing there's two Americans in this match but the announcers are so over the top pro-Agassi it isn't even funny. My god you'd think Andre was in line for sainthood or something.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:29 PM
btw, those return serve stats, see anbody's name conspicuously missing?

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:29 PM
http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/default.asp

Nadal leads 3/4 return serve stats

Yes, and look at the remaining leaders :

1. Nadal, Rafael 38 75
2. Davydenko, Nikolay 37 63
3. Ferrer, David 37 61
4. Coria, Guillermo 37 59
5. Canas, Guillermo 37 34
6. Gaudio, Gaston 36 65
7. Volandri, Filippo 35 43
8. Nalbandian, David 35

By and large the clay courters ---- surely no one believes canas and volandri and gaudio and ferrer are better returners than Roge and leyton? Like I said, breaking on clay adds to this in a disproportionate way and so I would not use this statistic to say nadal is a great returner.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:32 PM
yeah but those statistics are the very reason in the 90s Agassi was anointed "the greatest returner ever." if the stats were good enough for Agassi in the 90s why not Nadal?

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 07:32 PM
Could Dick Enberg be more annoying. I'm sorry but he needs to shut up. Amazing there's two Americans in this match but the announcers are so over the top pro-Agassi it isn't even funny. My god you'd think Andre was in line for sainthood or something.

I know :(

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:34 PM
yeah but those statistics are the very reason in the 90s Agassi was anointed "the greatest returner ever." if the stats were good enough for Agassi in the 90s why not Nadal?

I don't think agassi played a large number of clay tournaments in the 1990s --in fact I am very sure of that. So his breaks of service came on the much harder surfaces to break on --grass hard and ra. This is what I am saying --it is well understood that it is easy to break on clay, in fact it happens routinely. andre did not earn his reputation for returning there, but it sounds like nadal has.

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 07:37 PM
finish him of, geees....

Castafiore
09-10-2005, 07:37 PM
I don't think agassi played a large number of clay tournaments in the 1990s --in fact I am very sure of that. So his breaks of service came on the much harder surfaces to break on --grass hard and ra. This is what I am saying --it is well understood that it is easy to break on clay, in fact it happens routinely. andre did not earn his reputation for returning there, but it sounds like nadal has.
It's not a question of 'easy to break' on clay. Sorry but that's a bit simple as an explanation.

IMO, the power game (big serve,...) doesn't work all that well on clay. You can not simply overpower the other player that easily on clay. You have more long rallies where you need patience, persistance and a variety of shots. Players with patience and good return work are rewarded on that surface.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:39 PM
Ginepri breaks Agassi for 4-3 in the fourth :banghead:

nobama
09-10-2005, 07:40 PM
Please take this set Robby....

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 07:40 PM
Good fucking lord.

Can someone clue this cocksucker in: he can't get high % 1st serves in, HE WON'T WIN. Just got broken, with awful attempted Backhand passing shot being the key point...

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:41 PM
I don't like Agassis chances in 5....

alelysafina
09-10-2005, 07:42 PM
score?

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:43 PM
If this goes to 5, then Ginepri 4 consecutive 5 setters, Agassi 3 consecutive 5 setters.
Think they started engraving Federer's name on that trophy yet?

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 07:44 PM
fucking useless dropshot-making choker...

rot in hell

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:44 PM
Agassi 6-4 5-7 6-3 4-5 Ginepri serving for the 4th set

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:44 PM
Let us see if Robby-G (such a rap name) has the Big Balls to serve and take this to set 5.

alelysafina
09-10-2005, 07:45 PM
fucking useless dropshot-making choker...

rot in hell

:lol: :lol: :lol:

martinatreue
09-10-2005, 07:45 PM
fucking useless dropshot-making choker...

rot in hell

simma down now, simma down!

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:46 PM
It's not a question of 'easy to break' on clay. Sorry but that's a bit simple as an explanation.

IMO, the power game (big serve,...) doesn't work all that well on clay. You can not simply overpower the other player that easily on clay. You have more long rallies where you need patience, persistance and a variety of shots. Players with patience and good return work are rewarded on that surface.

So you will agree that ferrer and canas, nalbandi, gaudio are better returners than Roge, or leyton or andre whoever? That would be the assessment based on these statistics.

I mean, commentators routinely commentate that "you will serve a lot of breaks of serve in this tournament because it is played on clay" --is that not correct? It is in fact because a big power serve is not helpful. But regardless of the reason, it remains that there is more breaks of serve in the clay.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:47 PM
fucking useless dropshot-making choker...

rot in hell
Aw AgassiFan..chill..

andre has come back from 2 sets down against blake, then blake was also serving at 5-3 in fifth set and so on.


Oops sorry, fifth set

Take it easy, only a match

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:48 PM
we're goin 5 :banghead:

Sharad1982
09-10-2005, 07:48 PM
woohooo
go robbie and win it!

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:48 PM
There are two guys with big laughs in the locker rooms

mickymouse
09-10-2005, 07:48 PM
Don't worry. Agassi will get through. This is all part of the script to entertain the crowd.

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 07:49 PM
I am embarassed to be an Agassi fan today. What a will-less, umpire call-begging, complacent peformance.

That cocksucking backhand of his is laughable. If Ginepri's wasn't even worse, Andre woulda been done in 3.

Sharad1982
09-10-2005, 07:49 PM
i'm glad they going to a fifth
ginepri seems down and all but he wins set , not much emotion there!

i hope federer and hewitt go far but not likely

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 07:50 PM
This match is :(

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 07:53 PM
I am embarassed to be an Agassi fan today. What a will-less, umpire call-begging, complacent peformance.

That cocksucking backhand of his is laughable. If Ginepri's wasn't even worse, Andre woulda been done in 3.

:eek: Calm down buddy, you'll have a heart attack

henree
09-10-2005, 07:54 PM
Terrible match. Agassi is pissing me off. He has no gameplan. He played the 1st set like he was trying to conserve energy. 2nd set he makes the stupidest errors on his serves. Sometimes he stays back on Ginepri's 2nd serve. Sometimes he takes the ball early. He should make up his Fuc*ing mind how he wants to play. Either be agressve or go home. I am really wishing Blake was out there. Then this could have been an actual enjoyable match. :mad:

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:55 PM
The match has become more entertaining than thought possible in set 1

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 07:55 PM
winners are adding up for both players :bounce:

martinatreue
09-10-2005, 07:56 PM
1 all .

pcrtennis
09-10-2005, 07:56 PM
Come on Andre! Ginepri is just a big meathead

mickymouse
09-10-2005, 07:57 PM
Agassi is now chasing down every ball. But Ginepri is also playing more aggressively now.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 07:58 PM
I still dont think Bobbi-G has mentality to win --although he has played very well and fearlessly this match.
I dont mind whoever wins.

I think that Roge/leyton might actually prefer andre, because they have not had enough time to get used to "New Ginepri" (leyton has not played him since "New Ginepri" comes out this summer) and both are very well aware how to play andre

Mechlan
09-10-2005, 07:59 PM
This really is a terrible match. Agassi has only himself to blame for it, however.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:00 PM
anyone see a tiebreak in the near future?

1sun
09-10-2005, 08:02 PM
what I don't understand is why Nadal isn't mentioned along side Agassi's return of serve now, i mean his return may not be as aggressive but if i am not mistaken he leads most of the return of serve statistics this year. He has broken on average more than anyone else this year.
ok now stop there, thats disrespecting agassi.
nadals breaks of serve came on clay, just by lobing the ball back in play and wearing down his oppnent. the amount of breaks does not relfect his return of serve, you dont need a good return of serve to break.
nadals return of service is pretty poor, he drops it so short, near the service box.

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 08:02 PM
Amdre's cooked...

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:02 PM
Mary "Agassi decided to skip Wimbledon"

NO WAY I HAD NO IDEA!!! :rolleyes:

martinatreue
09-10-2005, 08:02 PM
2 all

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:03 PM
anyone see a tiebreak in the near future?
No, honestly I think andre has experience to know how to step it up and try not to get TB

But the quality of the players now is equality that I think TB will be "fair" (in the way of a lottery --random)

1sun
09-10-2005, 08:03 PM
come on lads, wrap this up

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 08:03 PM
Anyone thinks this is going to go to a TB :yawn:

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:03 PM
How tall is Agassi? He seems so short.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:04 PM
5 feet 11 inch

1sun
09-10-2005, 08:05 PM
Mary "Agassi decided to skip Wimbledon"

NO WAY I HAD NO IDEA!!! :rolleyes:
wasnt he forced to miss it through injury?, i dont think it was on his own terms

Domino
09-10-2005, 08:05 PM
I still dont think Bobbi-G has mentality to win --although he has played very well and fearlessly this match.
I dont mind whoever wins.

I think that Roge/leyton might actually prefer andre, because they have not had enough time to get used to "New Ginepri" (leyton has not played him since "New Ginepri" comes out this summer) and both are very well aware how to play andre

A very good point indeed. Add in the fact that Andre playing a five-setter off two others going into the final, and you have an interesting prospect for Roger and Hewitt considering his match fitness.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:05 PM
ok now stop there, thats disrespecting agassi.
nadals breaks of serve came on clay, just by lobing the ball back in play and wearing down his oppnent. the amount of breaks does not relfect his return of serve, you dont need a good return of serve to break.
nadals return of service is pretty poor, he drops it so short, near the service box.

This point has been well made. I humbly submit that I am a complete idiot for ever even suggesting such a thing

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:05 PM
I should qualify that by saying that he is 5 feet 11 inch in the same way that Serena is 135 pounds (how many centuries since they updated THAT stat?)

Castafiore
09-10-2005, 08:05 PM
ok now stop there, thats disrespecting agassi.
nadals breaks of serve came on clay, just by lobing the ball back in play and wearing down his oppnent. the amount of breaks does not relfect his return of serve, you dont need a good return of serve to break.
nadals return of service is pretty poor, he drops it so short, near the service box.
First of all, nobody is disrespecting Agassi here.
Secondly, I know that clay is not your favorite surface but come on:
"just by lobing the ball back in play and wearing down his oppnent."
That's just silly and that's ignoring the quality of his return game on clay.


So you will agree that ferrer and canas, nalbandi, gaudio are better returners than Roge, or leyton or andre whoever? That would be the assessment based on these statistics.
No, I didn't say that but I did say that good return work combined with patience is more rewarded on clay than on faster surfaces.

It's easier to overpower a Ferrer or a Canas on HC but give them a surface where they can do the rallies and show off their return work and they will be rewarded for those skills.

Turn this around and ask yourself why Lleyton doesn't have a better record on clay with his excellent returning skills on HC?

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:06 PM
What is that thing on Rob's arm? Is that a wrap of some sort or like a Livestrong bracelet?

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:07 PM
Castafiora: nadal is a good returner, but to know that you have to know it from watching him play. Because his number of tournaments on clay is SO disproportionate from others, it is not possible to get it from the statistics.
Still, i do not think nadal is as good a returner as hewitt or andre or Roge outside of clay.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:09 PM
Agassi breaks Ginepri for a 4-2 lead :bounce:

1sun
09-10-2005, 08:09 PM
This point has been well made. I humbly submit that I am a complete idiot for ever even suggesting such a thing
your not an idiot

RodLo
09-10-2005, 08:10 PM
What is that thing on Rob's arm? Is that a wrap of some sort or like a Livestrong bracelet?

According to the UA website, it's meant "...to accelerate moisture transport." :shrug:

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:10 PM
ginepri looks like he is slowing down a step or two

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 08:10 PM
Finally someone breaks, can we plz get the winner of this match already.

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:11 PM
Everyone, please look at my sig. Thank you :)

RodLo
09-10-2005, 08:11 PM
Robby....:awww:

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:11 PM
your not an idiot

i was being sarcastic but thank you :)

martinatreue
09-10-2005, 08:11 PM
fucking useless dropshot-making choker...

rot in hell


he just broke with a drop shot :rolleyes:

mishar
09-10-2005, 08:11 PM
Andre played a totally sick game to break him. The winner off the let cord and then the awesome drop shot.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-10-2005, 08:12 PM
noooooooooooooooooooooooooo:mad: Robby fight!

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:12 PM
According to the UA website, it's meant "...to accelerate moisture transport." :shrug:

:confused: :shrug:

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:13 PM
a game away. I can honestly say that I never thought that Agassi would ever see a GS final again.

btw Tennis fool what is the 21 rule and how did you use it to predict the final so well?

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 08:13 PM
This point has been well made. I humbly submit that I am a complete idiot for ever even suggesting such a thing

:hug: No you're not, part of the reason why its so hard to hold against Nadal is because he fights for every point. His flaws with breaking serve are more evident on a HC though, which I believe will get better as his game adjusts to the faster surfaces.

RodLo
09-10-2005, 08:13 PM
:confused: :shrug:

I felt the same way. :lol:

1sun
09-10-2005, 08:14 PM
ok egg man, finish this up now, no choke job please

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:14 PM
2 points away :bounce:

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:14 PM
It's easier to overpower a Ferrer or a Canas on HC but give them a surface where they can do the rallies and show off their return work and they will be rewarded for those skills.

Turn this around and ask yourself why Lleyton doesn't have a better record on clay with his excellent returning skills on HC?

Yes, but we are talking about RETURN of SERVE, not Return Games Won. No one is easily aced on clay. Everyone is getting the ball back into play.
You do not have to be a great returner to get the ball back into play on clay -- you don't agree?

But it is easier to get points on rallies and grinding in clay and to break your opponent that way (wihch leads to higher chances of return games won). leyton does not have as good grinding ability as ferrer or other clay court phenoms, this is why Return of Serve on clay is very different from Return Games won.

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:14 PM
he just broke with a drop shot :rolleyes:
AgassiFan is just putting the whammy on Robby :wavey: Don't take his comments literally.

Mechlan
09-10-2005, 08:15 PM
I've got to say, if the winner of this match doesn't pick up their performance tomorrow, it's going to be a quick one.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:15 PM
There we go! I was sure agassi would step it up to prevent TB

But let us see if Ginepri has a last flicker of heart left here.

Allez!

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:15 PM
ok then... one game away :bounce:

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 08:15 PM
2-5, 15-30, 2nd serve... andf the Bald idiot decides to come in, hands to slow, the backhand return sails... Ends up breathing life into Ginepri...

fuck

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:16 PM
2 more points to win

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:16 PM
triple mp

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:17 PM
a game away. I can honestly say that I never thought that Agassi would ever see a GS final again.

btw Tennis fool what is the 21 rule and how did you use it to predict the final so well?
21 Rule: If you don't win a Slam by age 21, you won't. RobG is over 21, and he's playing a GS champ. Thus, he was going to lose the Semis.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:17 PM
Jaz elle is not interested in clapping. She is playign with her hair ;)

oneandonlyhsn
09-10-2005, 08:17 PM
Finally thank GOd, phew I thought that match would never end

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:17 PM
an ace on match point :bounce:

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:17 PM
21 Rule: If you don't win a Slam by age 21, you won't. RobG is over 21, and he's playing a GS champ. Thus, he was going to lose the Semis.

Tell that to Roge so he can have a good laugh

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:18 PM
Agassi!

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:18 PM
AgassiFan, whatcha got to say now?

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:18 PM
hey Agassi Fan, at least come over and make a nice statement to the bald old man

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:19 PM
Ha! They got rid of Tracy for Mary Joe on the court :lol:

RobG about to cry. Didn't think he was going to make it through that interview.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:20 PM
He does not produce tears, he is a robot, he leaks oil and antifreeze

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:20 PM
Agassi is just a big kid.

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:21 PM
Kudos to Bobbi-G. He has made an INCREDIBLE transformation in an INCREDIBLY short amount of time.

I do not think he is a flash in the pan on HCs

Castafiore
09-10-2005, 08:21 PM
Yes, but we are talking about RETURN of SERVE, not Return Games Won. No one is easily aced on clay. Everyone is getting the ball back into play.
You do not have to be a great returner to get the ball back into play on clay -- you don't agree?
Nope, I don't agree certainly when you look at two great clay court specialists playing against each other.

The way I see it, the bias against clay court tennis is the following:
it's just a matter of getting the ball across, keeping the ball in play. The one who makes the first mistake loses.

That's ignoring the smart building up of a point, switching from defence to attack when the time is right, mixing up your shots (drop shots, balls straight down the line, crossed balls,...), switching pace,...
That's great return work and saying that you don't have to be a good returner to keep the ball into play is not sufficient as an explanation (in my opinion anyway).

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:22 PM
Ha! They got rid of Tracy for Mary Joe on the court :lol:

RobG about to cry. Didn't think he was going to make it through that interview.

Tracy : "Andre, Robby exposed your aging legs and 35 year old body so well. How did you manage to still pull him out from basically sitting in a wheelchair?"

Thank God

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:22 PM
anyone think he'll have anything left tomorrow? I hope so, but seriously doubt it

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:23 PM
anyone think he'll have anything left tomorrow? I hope so, but seriously doubt it
It all depends on how long and gruelling the second match is.

Have to give the advantage to the younger bodies without the sciatic nerve issues. But andre is playing on borrowed time, he will pull out all the stops tomorrow. He will not mind if he is going to collapse and cannot play one more match in his life. It is goint to become only harder to get back to a slam final in the future

Castafiore
09-10-2005, 08:24 PM
This has taken a lot from Agassi. Good for him, though. :yeah:

Björki
09-10-2005, 08:24 PM
Andre :bigclap:

Mechlan
09-10-2005, 08:25 PM
Nope, I don't agree certainly when you look at two great clay court specialists playing against each other.

The way I see it, the bias against clay court tennis is the following:
it's just a matter of getting the ball across, keeping the ball in play. The one who makes the first mistake loses.

That's ignoring the smart building up of a point, switching from defence to attack when the time is right, mixing up your shots (drop shots, balls straight down the line, crossed balls,...), switching pace.
That's great return work.

Regardless of surface, how is a player's ability to construct and execute a point well related to their ability to return?

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:25 PM
Nope, I don't agree certainly when you look at two great clay court specialists playing against each other.

The way I see it, the bias against clay court tennis is the following:
it's just a matter of getting the ball across, keeping the ball in play. The one who makes the first mistake loses.

That's ignoring the smart building up of a point, switching from defence to attack when the time is right, mixing up your shots (drop shots, balls straight down the line, crossed balls,...), switching pace,...
That's great return work and saying that you don't have to be a good returner to keep the ball into play is not sufficient as an explanation (in my opinion anyway).
Sorry -- Blowe and I were discussing Return of Serve, not return games won.

Lliterally, just returning the serve and who has the best ability to do that. I think you are talking about return games won and that was not what we were discussing, build up of point etc

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:25 PM
that little girl is SOOO CUTE :baby:

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:26 PM
Thanks Mechlan

We wrote at same time.

I think Castafiore is not answering what we were talking about --return of serve. His/her discussion is about return games, which is not what we discuss

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:28 PM
Tell that to Roge so he can have a good laugh
He, like Lendl, Agassi and a few clay courters are notable exceptions. Haven't figured out the math on that one yet. Maybe has something to do with number of wins as a teenager :p

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:30 PM
Roger Federer doesn't sound like he likes New York too much

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:31 PM
Anyone know if "Grand Slam Man" and "Maria Sharapova" are real songs or made up for the US Open?

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:31 PM
Since I started the Agassi Ginepri thread would it be proper forum etiquette to allow someone else to start the Federer Hewitt thread?

GermanBoy
09-10-2005, 08:31 PM
FUCK! :fiery:

I am still extremely proud of Robby! :cool:

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:31 PM
"Anna Kournikova" is a real song, and that is the same song where they have now inserted "Maria Sharapova" insted of AK

Dont know about GS song

R.Federer
09-10-2005, 08:33 PM
Roger Federer doesn't sound like he likes New York too much

hahahahah I like the way he immitates the gentle clapping of the Wimbledon crowd

He will be in for a shock if he gets to the final.
The spectators will be more one sided than I can remember in a slam final

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:33 PM
Roger Federer doesn't sound like he likes New York too much
A lot of people don't like NYC. If you come from a small, quiet place it can seem overwhelming. Just ask my mother :o

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:34 PM
Fed "the fans sometimes hit you or grab you. Its different.... but good" :haha:

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:35 PM
Since I started the Agassi Ginepri thread would it be proper forum etiquette to allow someone else to start the Federer Hewitt thread?
Oh just change the title :cool:

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:36 PM
Oh just change the title :cool:

how do i do that?

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:39 PM
how do i do that?
Go to your first post, press "edit", and change the title.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 08:39 PM
R.Fed beat me to it

Castafiore
09-10-2005, 08:44 PM
R. Federer, I see your point (about the return on serve). :)

BUT:
you said this earlier:
it is well understood that it is easy to break on clay, in fact it happens routinely. andre did not earn his reputation for returning there, but it sounds like nadal has.
Talking about breaking on clay is more than talking about 'return on serve' and - at least, the way I see it - when you talk about 'breaking on clay', you need to look at the quality of returning in general.

So, therefor, my answer about 'return games'

Tennis Fool
09-10-2005, 08:51 PM
Agassi is a good commentator! Get him in the booth!

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 08:58 PM
AgassiFan, whatcha got to say now?

Same thing I've always said: 2005 Andre has no shot against 2005 Federer. Not with a screwed-up back, not coming off back-to-back-to-back 5 setters. Not while serving 50% 1st serve, and having an 8:35 backhand winner-to-UE ratio...

No chance.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 09:05 PM
why can't you just be happy for him for making it to another GS final at 35. a true fan would feel that for him.

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 09:21 PM
You might be in a position to answer this, since you appear to be a balanced (but otherwise irritable) andre fan: why is andre known as the best returner if he is easy to ace? Do you even agree with it? Aren't Roge and leyton the best returners?

Andre's known as the best returner of all time because back when his back was healthy and reflexes were outstanding... THAT'S WHAT HE WAS.

Now both his range and reaction time are not the same, both on returns and during (difficult) rallies. Hence, he is OVERRATED.

Andre loves pace - both because of his compact, flat swing AND because he doesn't have time to "think" (when he is self-conscious, he's in big trouble).

So if you're Roddick and you're serving 140 but into Andre's "wheelhouse", Andre will kick his ass. But if you're Federer and you're serving slower but with more variety and with better placement... Andre is in trouble.

So, no, Andre is not as good a returned as Federer or Hewitt - or even Nalbandian in his psychological prime (which might have already passed, lol), for that matter.

And, yes, Andre's backhand needs to be ON like never before, or he has NO chance against Federer. I am not asking Andre to hit 100 mph backhand winners that clip both lines, but I AM asking for much, MUCH better placement/accuracy.






....

AgassiFan
09-10-2005, 09:27 PM
why can't you just be happy for him for making it to another GS final at 35. a true fan would feel that for him.

I'll be happy when he wins it.

For now, I am merely 'content'.


Those losses to Phillipousis at 2003 Wimbly, Ferrero at 2003 USO and Safin at 2004 AO still piss me off. They were all winnable if Andre's backhand was working like it should have on big points. Andre has YET to redeem himself for those losses; he came close against Federer at 2004 USO, but didn't get it done.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 09:32 PM
you don't sound like a fan. you sound like an asshole

RodLo
09-10-2005, 09:33 PM
You're not so sweet, yourself.

Phunkadelicious
09-10-2005, 09:50 PM
no, i have a creamy nougat filling

federer express
09-10-2005, 09:52 PM
I'll be happy when he wins it.

For now, I am merely 'content'.


Those losses to Phillipousis at 2003 Wimbly, Ferrero at 2003 USO and Safin at 2004 AO still piss me off. They were all winnable if Andre's backhand was working like it should have on big points. Andre has YET to redeem himself for those losses; he came close against Federer at 2004 USO, but didn't get it done.

if you say this stuff to be funny or are trying to be controversial, it's fair enough. otherwise you are just full of crap...

LLeytonRules
09-10-2005, 09:52 PM
Hewitt will take this set, Federer is making lots of mistakes.

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 01:12 AM
if you say this stuff to be funny or are trying to be controversial, it's fair enough. otherwise you are just full of crap...

If a mediocre fanboy like you says I am full of crap, I know I must be doing something right. ;)


Now go back to being a frontrunner for the greatest tennis player of all time (I liked him since early juniors, temper and all; where were you?)

andre the great
09-11-2005, 01:19 AM
In fairness Agassi Fan makes a good point. It is brilliant that Dre is in the final. Thinking he is going to get his arse kicked is not so good a feeling. The biggest reason is his serve can turn to shite sumtimes and it breaks the hearts of his fans. Serving for the match against Rafter Wimby 2001, the Coria debacle FO 2003.These are memories which can still make us shudder.

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 02:19 AM
In fairness Agassi Fan makes a good point. It is brilliant that Dre is in the final. Thinking he is going to get his arse kicked is not so good a feeling. The biggest reason is his serve can turn to shite sumtimes and it breaks the hearts of his fans. Serving for the match against Rafter Wimby 2001, the Coria debacle FO 2003.These are memories which can still make us shudder.

I am not even talking about 2001 Rafter, it was too long ago (though beating Hewitt in the Final as opposed to Sampras was very doable.)

Nor do I care much for Coria match since Andre wouldn't have won the title the way a (healthy) Ferrero was playing clay that year. In fact, I didn't even WANT Andre to come to Paris in 2004 and 2005 because I knew his body wasn't up to it and because the clay season is an (IMO unnecessary) distraction to his hardcore season where he actually has a chance to win, anyway :(

Blowing countless chances against Safin at 2004 AO, Phillipoussis at 2003 Wimbledon and even Ferrero at 2003 USO... now those matches Andre simply did not perform up to both his OWN and his fans' very lofty high expectations. Andre had a chance to redeem himself for those losses with an unlikely victory over King Roger I at 2004 USO, came close, but "close" doesn't count as we all know.

Had he beaten Safin, Phillipousis and Ferrero in those 2003-2004 Slam matches, then his match tomorrow against Fed would be a win-win situation even if he loses big.

I also fully expect him to play in 2006 and maybe even 2007.

R.Federer
09-11-2005, 02:23 AM
I also fully expect him to play in 2006 and maybe even 2007.
I think if he wins tomorrow, he will retire. He will like to go out on top, not playing at 38 years of age in some little tournament, losing in an early round.
The great champions do this- Pete of course being the best example, armstrong another. There would be no better (riskless) way of going out on top than by winning tomorrow

Scotso
09-11-2005, 02:54 AM
Good fight, Robby :)

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 03:32 AM
I think if he wins tomorrow, he will retire. He will like to go out on top, not playing at 38 years of age in some little tournament, losing in an early round.


Back in 2003 I thought Andre's skills can last until 2006-2007, easy. Obviously I didn't think thing his back would get this bad, but as long as cortisone shots work, so should Andre.

And "fairy tale" endings of which you speak are for shallow, self-involved robots like Micahel Jordon, Mario Lemiux, Pete Sampras, etc- and even they dragged their assses back into the swing of things 3 years after retiring...

Andre LOVES the "process"; adores the people; enjoys the GAME and everything that's associated with it, not the least of which is fame... You have to drag him off the court, which is the RIGHT way to go about things one has great passion for.

Besides, when he is healthy, he can beat anybody not named Federer. He should start rolling back his clay schedule which gave him so much grief the last 2 years (I for one wanted him to start skipping FO after he was blown off the court by Grosjean in 2000), and concentrate on Aussie, Wimbly and USO.

And who knows, Federer may go down with a Clisters/Serena/Marat/Justinne HH-type injury that takes him out of action for a year. Then AO/W/USO are ripe for the taking.

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 03:36 AM
you don't sound like a fan. you sound like an asshole

I may 'sound' like an asshole, but you ARE an asshole.

You can shut the fuck up now. Thanks. :D

R.Federer
09-11-2005, 03:40 AM
And "fairy tale" endings of which you speak are for shallow, self-involved robots like Micahel Jordon, Mario Lemiux, Pete Sampras, etc- and even they dragged their assses back into the swing of things 3 years after retiring...

Andre LOVES the "process"; adores the people; enjoys the GAME and everything that's associated with it, not the least of which is fame... You have to drag him off the court, which is the RIGHT way to go about things one has great passion for.

I know he has a lot of passion for the game, but suppose he has to continue on cortisone for next 2 years and knows it already (hidden from public). Then, you still think that he will roll the dice, win the Open and then keep falling lower in rankings and finally announce a retirement in a hastily called conference? I don't know. I mean, when Pete won in 2002, he proved he can hit with the best players after he was written off. He could have continued and played W again, but chose not to. And now, that is what we remember -- the fitting champion ending

It is a matter of ideals, I guess. I would hate to see andre announce a retirement by say, losing a couple early rounds in Tier 1/ Tier 2 tournaments. I would like to see him go out with a bang, with a crowd that loves him and knowing that he has done enough that he can now led his body to heal.

(PS. Graf is btw, another self-involved robot who preferred to go out on top)

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 03:46 AM
Andre's known as the best returner of all time because back when his back was healthy and reflexes were outstanding... THAT'S WHAT HE WAS.

Now both his range and reaction time are not the same, both on returns and during (difficult) rallies. Hence, he is OVERRATED.

Andre loves pace - both because of his compact, flat swing AND because he doesn't have time to "think" (when he is self-conscious, he's in big trouble).

So if you're Roddick and you're serving 140 but into Andre's "wheelhouse", Andre will kick his ass. But if you're Federer and you're serving slower but with more variety and with better placement... Andre is in trouble.

So, no, Andre is not as good a returner as Federer or Hewitt - or even Nalbandian in his psychological prime (which might have already passed, lol), for that matter.

And, yes, Andre's backhand needs to be ON like never before, or he has NO chance against Federer. I am not asking Andre to hit 100 mph backhand winners that clip both lines at will, but I AM asking for MUCH better placement/accuracy/depth.

....


Hope that answers your question, R.Federer

R.Federer
09-11-2005, 04:13 AM
Hope that answers your question, R.Federer
Thx! Yes, I agree with all this. I wanted to understand better, because it is true he was the best and now not so much. But John Macenroe loves him a lot, and will keep saying it --about 3 times within 2 sets today alone-- without reassessing this situation. He of course continues to be a very good returner, but people (including Pat Macenroe) saying that he is easy to ace, so it is completely inconsistet with best returning

Anyhow, I know you were a bit mad at andre today but I hope you forgave him when he won!!!!

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 04:15 AM
I know he has a lot of passion for the game, but suppose he has to continue on cortisone for next 2 years and knows it already (hidden from public).

If his condition is as dire as you describe, I suppose he may retire.

But that would be independent of tomorrow's outcome. The docs say his back won't hold, he won't play.

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 04:29 AM
Thx! Yes, I agree with all this. I wanted to understand better, because it is true he was the best and now not so much. But John Macenroe loves him a lot, and will keep saying it --about 3 times within 2 sets today alone

I think generally people need to stop gettting distracted by shit that ultimately has no bearing on the ACTUAL GAME. It's what I call, um, growing up and allowing yourself to enjoy life/things much better.

Many casual tennis fans find Johnny-Mac, Mary Carillo, Pam Shriver, etc both funny and insightful and authentic. Die-hard tennis fans, however, think they are simpletons and homers. I personally DO NOT CARE because I trust my eyes and instincts more than I do some announcers, who are just background noise for me that is occasionally good for a chuckle or a raised eye-brow....So of course they don't bother me when they refer to Agassi as the great returner or whatever; I know better.

Likewise, extraneous things like crowd support, tour earnings, TV ads, interview soundbytes, tabloid gossip, etc, etc...DON'T take away from ACTUAL TENNIS. Most drama queens here need to learn to tune those things out and stop making threads to whine about this and that and the other thing... :rolleyes: :D


...

Phunkadelicious
09-11-2005, 04:41 AM
Many casual tennis fans find Johnny-Mac, Mary Carillo, Pam Shriver, etc both funny and insightful and authentic. Die-hard tennis fans, however, think they are simpletons and homers....

Thats called ELITISM

ELITISTS SUCK ASSHOLE

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 04:55 AM
Thats called ELITISM

ELITISTS SUCK ASSHOLE


See, I thought I told you to shut the fuck up.

And you haven't shut the fuck up.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. So let's put our differences aside and begin a joint venture to facilitate your shutting the fuck up.

Phunkadelicious
09-11-2005, 04:56 AM
See, I thought I told you to shut the fuck up.

And you haven't shut the fuck up.

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Let's put our differences aside and begin a joint venture to facilitate your shutting the fuck up.



GET THE HELL OUT OF MY THREAD THEN IF YOU DON'T WANT TO LISTEN

Phunkadelicious
09-11-2005, 04:57 AM
ohh thats right, I can ignore your punk uninformed poser ass

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 04:59 AM
ohh thats right, I can ignore your punk uninformed poser ass

There's that American wit reaching critical mass. :D


...

federer express
09-11-2005, 05:07 AM
If a mediocre fanboy like you says I am full of crap, I know I must be doing something right. ;)


Now go back to being a frontrunner for the greatest tennis player of all time (I liked him since early juniors, temper and all; where were you?)

everyone says you are full of crap so keep congratulating yourself...

and of course you did

Phunkadelicious
09-11-2005, 05:14 AM
thank god I'm not the only one that sees through this fools bullshit

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 05:21 AM
everyone says you are full of crap so keep congratulating yourself...

and of course you did


You lemmings couldn't be more harmless or irrelevant. Primitive understanding of the game, too. Hence the 'yawn'

Yawn.

federer express
09-11-2005, 05:23 AM
You lemmings couldn't be more harmless or irrelevant. Primitive understanding of the game, too. Hence the 'yawn'

Yawn.

you braindead fool!!! you dont make a single comment on this board that doesn't show your boundless stupidity!

AgassiFan
09-11-2005, 05:30 AM
you braindead fool!!! you dont make a single comment on this board that doesn't show your boundless stupidity!

Colorful and substantive? Impressed. :rolleyes: :D

ad court, ad hominem

IMMORTALCHAMP
09-11-2005, 08:17 AM
Agassi vs Ginepri was a lot more thrilling than expected. The quality of tennis wasn't particularly high until the 5th set. I think Agassi was trying to play as much within himself as possible while winning in 3 or 4 sets (to conserve energy for the Final), but Ginepri wouldn't go away and Agassi was forced to use his best stuff when the 5th set came.