most talented nation of (male) players [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

most talented nation of (male) players

federer express
09-08-2005, 04:50 PM
yes i know i am really just stealing from GWH's most talented youngsters. but this is all ages.

i have just picked a few countries and given two players from each. some countries obviously have much more depth than others, but i have limited it to two from each to make it more interesting and to give the underdog nations a chance. you may disagree with the players i picked and disagree with the countries. anyway...

switzerland: federer and warwrinka
spain: nadal and verdasco
usa: blake and agassi
russia: andreev and safin
argentina: nalbandian and gaudio
france: gasquet and grosjean
germany: kiefer and haas
belgium: malisse and ollie rochus
britain: henman and murray

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 04:53 PM
If we're going on sheer talent I'd have Coria ahead of Gaudio, probably Youzhny ahead of Andreev and Santoro ahead of one of the Frenchies.......

From your chosen players you'd have to go Espanol

federer express
09-08-2005, 04:55 PM
If we're going on sheer talent I'd have Coria ahead of Gaudio, probably Youzhny ahead of Andreev and Santoro ahead of one of the Frenchies.......

From your chosen players you'd have to go Espanol

good point about santoro.

federer express
09-08-2005, 04:55 PM
If we're going on sheer talent I'd have Coria ahead of Gaudio, probably Youzhny ahead of Andreev and Santoro ahead of one of the Frenchies.......

From your chosen players you'd have to go Espanol

cant agree with spain though..

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 04:55 PM
Were you the Switzerland vote?

federer express
09-08-2005, 04:56 PM
Were you the Switzerland vote?

nope argies got mine...but swiss were very close to getting 10 points

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 04:57 PM
If we're going on sheer talent I'd have Coria ahead of Gaudio, probably Youzhny ahead of Andreev and Santoro ahead of one of the Frenchies.......

From your chosen players you'd have to go Espanol

Coria and Gaudio are both very talented in different ways.

As for a country well from this it'd be either Spain, France or Argentina.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 04:57 PM
To be honest I don't think Rafa's one of the most talented players around. He just makes the most of his talent. In hindsight, I think my Spain vote might've been a bit hasty, its just because I think Verdasco is probably the most talented guy out there.

federer express
09-08-2005, 04:59 PM
To be honest I don't think Rafa's one of the most talented players around. He just makes the most of his talent. In hindsight, I think my Spain vote might've been a bit hasty, its just because I think Verdasco is probably the most talented guy out there.

there are more talented guys that verdasco surely...

like, most of the guys mentioned here :p

tennischick
09-08-2005, 04:59 PM
nope argies got mine...but swiss were very close to getting 10 points
same for me. ;)

Castafiore
09-08-2005, 04:59 PM
You've got to take into consideration how small/large those countries (population) are just to compare the potential talent pool.

Switzerland: almost 7,5 million citizens
Spain: 40 million
USA: almost 296 million
Russia: almost 144 million
Argentina: almost 40 million
France: 60,6 million
Germany: 82 million
Belgium:10 million
UK: 60 million

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:00 PM
there are more talented guys that verdasco surely...

like, most of the guys mentioned here :p

I'd be inclined to disagree, I'd go as far as to suggest he's more talented than any player around nowadays :cool:

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:00 PM
there are more talented guys that verdasco surely...

like, most of the guys mentioned here :p

Too bad Acasuso has his own thread :)

The Belgians are ones that I could vote for as well, it's a very good question and takes my mind of the Ashes.

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:05 PM
Are you talking about just men's tennis?

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:06 PM
Are you talking about just men's tennis?

This is not a WTA board.

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:09 PM
This is not a WTA board.

It's a bit weird to crown a nation the "most talented nation of players" just based on the male players they have, don't you think?

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:10 PM
It's a bit weird to crown a nation the "most talented nation of players" just based on the male players they have, don't you think?

Not on a site called Mens Tennis Forums, no :p

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:10 PM
Not on a site called Mens Tennis Forums, no :p

OK... :confused:

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:11 PM
It's a bit weird to crown a nation the "most talented nation of players" just based on the male players they have, don't you think?

Mr federer express doesn't talk about womens tennis, this is not a WTA board and I know exactly where he was coming from with this question.

Example Brazil has arguably the most talented footballers in the world, this doesn't include the female players, the principle is the same here.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:13 PM
OK... :confused:

What are you confused about dear :confused:

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:14 PM
What are you confused about dear :confused:

I've explained it.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:14 PM
I've explained it.

Splendid :D

1sun
09-08-2005, 05:15 PM
federer is more talented than the whole tour put together so switzerland ;)

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:15 PM
federer is more talented than the whole tour put together so switzerland ;)

:rolleyes: give me a break

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:16 PM
No, it just seems a little selective to me. But I guess you see a point in excluding the women. :shrug:

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:18 PM
No, it just seems a little selective to me. But I guess you see a point in excluding the women. :shrug:

I see he's changed the thread title for you :)

federer express
09-08-2005, 05:19 PM
I see he's changed the thread title for you :)

seemed like the painless option :)

1sun
09-08-2005, 05:20 PM
:rolleyes: give me a break
you can take that on your own right mate, no need for my permission ;)

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:22 PM
Back to the thread.....

Seeing as 1 person can apparently make a duo (say the 3 voters of Switzerland), surely Brazil and Guga (throw in Andre Sa as his companion) should be in there.

Or maybe Chile, you could have Gonzalez and that new kid Capdeville. If I had a gun to my head I wouldn't nominate Massu for anything so he's out the question.

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:23 PM
Sweden.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:23 PM
you can take that on your own right mate, no need for my permission ;)

I will, I'm just trying to get you to realise that the ATP tour doesn't consist of 1 player :angel:

Puschkin
09-08-2005, 05:23 PM
I have never seen Wawrinka play, so Switzerland is difficult:)

Having said that and talking talent alone, I go for France, the other thread was about potential which is more than talent.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:24 PM
:lol: 4 votes for Switzerland, this forum never ceases to amaze me

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:24 PM
I will, I'm just trying to get you to realise that the ATP tour doesn't consist of 1 player :angel:

No chance, then again you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to tennis according to the sage one.

Galaxystorm
09-08-2005, 05:25 PM
Can anyone explain me which are the criterions to say a nation is more talented than another ??.

The criterion used is the number of players in the top 100 , top 50, top 10??
The criterion is how many titles win the players of a nation during a year ??
The criteron is which is the country with the players most versatile on the different surfaces ??
Etc
Etc


I think the person who made this poll should be more concrete

federer express
09-08-2005, 05:27 PM
I think the person who made this poll should be more concret

or concrete even :p

well what does talent usually mean?

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:29 PM
Can anyone explain me which are the criterions to say a nation is more talented than another ??.

The criterion used is the number of players in the top 100 , top 50, top 10??
The criterion is how many titles win the players of a nation during a year ??
The criteron is which is the country with the players most versatile on the different surfaces ??
Etc
Etc


I think the person who made this poll should be more concrete

I think so too. As some of us know, GWH's and Neely's definitions of talent are quite different. ;)

federer express
09-08-2005, 05:30 PM
I think so too. As some of us know, GWH's and Neely's definitions of talent are quite different. ;)

federer express says it means...

a natural or innate ability/potential

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:32 PM
federer express says it means...

a natural or innate ability/potential

Or in other words, Nando Verdasco :p

Galaxystorm
09-08-2005, 05:33 PM
or concrete even :p

well what does talent usually mean?

A lot of times people uses talent and technical skill are synonyms, and that's a big mistake.

Reading a dictionary you see that the talent is the abilty to make a task or job , then players as Hewitt and Nadal, which technique isn't quite amazing, are very talented players, because they make their job ( to play tennis ) better than others .

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:33 PM
I think so too. As some of us know, GWH's and Neely's definitions of talent are quite different. ;)

It's actually her stupid usage of claycourt specialist that is the more irritating. :)

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:34 PM
federer express says it means...

a natural or innate ability/potential

A natural or innate ability/potential to do what?

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:35 PM
It's actually her stupid usage of claycourt specialist that is the more irritating. :)

Well, she has her opinions and you have yours.

*julie*
09-08-2005, 05:39 PM
Back to the thread.....

Seeing as 1 person can apparently make a duo (say the 3 voters of Switzerland), surely Brazil and Guga (throw in Andre Sa as his companion) should be in there.

Or maybe Chile, you could have Gonzalez and that new kid Capdeville.

Not really a kid as he is 22. ;)

1sun
09-08-2005, 05:40 PM
I will, I'm just trying to get you to realise that the ATP tour doesn't consist of 1 player :angel:
you mean to tell me that there is more than one player??!!! :eek:

Action Jackson
09-08-2005, 05:40 PM
Well, she has her opinions and you have yours.

It's alright it's always going to be a problem on that subject.

I will vote for Argentina in this poll, though not with any great conviction.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:42 PM
A natural or innate ability/potential to do what?

Masturbate

What do you think....:rolleyes:

TennisLurker
09-08-2005, 05:42 PM
france. gasquet santoro grosjean escude..

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:42 PM
Not really a kid as he is 22. ;)

A year older than me, but he still counts as a kid :p

federer express
09-08-2005, 05:43 PM
A natural or innate ability/potential to do what?

to succeed in whatever your chosen field is!! i get the impression you need some things spelt out to you...

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:44 PM
Masturbate

What do you think....:rolleyes:

Federer's natural ability is different from Nadal's natural ability. Now what?

federer express
09-08-2005, 05:44 PM
Masturbate

What do you think....:rolleyes:

lol...hard work this one

1sun
09-08-2005, 05:44 PM
No chance, then again you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to tennis according to the sage one.
lol. george george george......

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:44 PM
to succeed in whatever your chosen field is!! i get the impression you need some things spelt out to you...

No. You're just assuming everyone is on the same wavelength as you are.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:45 PM
Federer's natural ability is different from Nadal's natural ability. Now what?

I get the feeling you're not going to accept any explanation. Just take you're own interpretation and make up your mind! If you want some help, I suggest choosing Spain as they have the most gifted player around in Nando Verdasco.

federer express
09-08-2005, 05:47 PM
No. You're just assuming everyone is on the same wavelength as you are.

i'm assuming people understand the word talent.

federer express
09-08-2005, 05:47 PM
I get the feeling you're not going to accept any explanation. Just take you're own interpretation and make up your mind! If you want some help, I suggest choosing Spain as they have the most gifted player around in Nando Verdasco.

spain are doing better than i expected in this poll...at least the argies are maintaining their lead :)

delsa
09-08-2005, 05:50 PM
I am hesitating between voting Argentina or Swizerland...or Belgium/Russia/France/USA/other too...Actually i can't choose. Maybe i should look at the couples of players Fed express selected. That should help... ;)

silverwhite
09-08-2005, 05:51 PM
i'm assuming people understand the word talent.

If it was that simple, you wouldn't have people on the board arguing over what talent encompasses. But I guess since it is your thread and you accept a broad range of definitions, who am I to argue? :shrug:

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:51 PM
spain are doing better than i expected in this poll...at least the argies are maintaining their lead :)

At least this board is retaining some dignity by not bowing in to Federer.

Britain with 0 points, where have I seen that before :scratch:

*julie*
09-08-2005, 05:51 PM
Can anyone explain me which are the criterions to say a nation is more talented than another ??.

The criterion used is the number of players in the top 100 , top 50, top 10??
The criterion is how many titles win the players of a nation during a year ??
The criteron is which is the country with the players most versatile on the different surfaces ??
Etc
Etc


I think the person who made this poll should be more concrete

I don't know if that makes sense in english but imo, talent is just the ability to "play easy"...

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 05:52 PM
I don't know if that makes sense in english but imo, talent is just the ability to "play easy"...

that'll do :)

delsa
09-08-2005, 06:00 PM
For me, talent is when you make it look as if very difficult beautiful extra-terrestrial amazing shots that make ppl watching go "waow(?!)" are easy for you when they are not (a bit like what Julie said). It's when you play fantastically almost nonchalantly all the shots and when this way of playing is still efficient and make you win of course but in great fashion. ;)
But i'm very lenient on the definition actually in the end so and there are many players who i think are talented who don't go exactly by that personal definition but it's the ideal/absolute def of talent in my mind i guess...

We'll all end up giving our definition of talent if that continues...:lol:

federer express
09-08-2005, 06:03 PM
For me, talent is when you make it look as if very difficult beautiful extra-terrestrial amazing shots that make ppl watching go "waow(?!)" are easy for you when they are not (a bit like what Julie said). It's when you play fantastically almost nonchalantly all the shots and when this way of playing is still efficient and make you win of course but in great fashion. ;)
But i'm very lenient on the definition actually in the end so and there are many players who i think are talented who don't go exactly by that personal definition but it's the ideal/absolute def of talent in my mind i guess...

We'll all end up giving our definition of talent if that continues...:lol:

for me every person has a potential in everything. a maximum potential. for me talent is having an innate, almost 'god-given' ability to perform in whatever area it may be.
a talented musician was obviously jimi hendrix rather than robbie williams or britney.

delsa
09-08-2005, 06:11 PM
for me every person has a potential in everything. a maximum potential. for me talent is having an innate, almost 'god-given' ability to perform in whatever area it may be.
a talented musician was obviously jimi hendrix rather than robbie williams or britney.
I agree with that too... ;)
:lol: at your exemples...

*julie*
09-08-2005, 06:12 PM
For me, talent is when you make it look as if very difficult beautiful extra-terrestrial amazing shots that make ppl watching go "waow(?!)" are easy for you when they are not (a bit like what Julie said). It's when you play fantastically almost nonchalantly all the shots and when this way of playing is still efficient and make you win of course but in great fashion. ;)

:yeah:

That's what I meant obviously ...with my poor "play easy" :o :lol:

*julie*
09-08-2005, 06:16 PM
a talented musician was obviously jimi hendrix rather than robbie williams or britney.

:lol: and that works the other way round...
untalented musicians are robbie williams or britney rather than jimi hendrix

:rolleyes: Wait! They are not even musicians...

lau
09-08-2005, 06:25 PM
:lol: I don´t pretend to ask about the meaning of talent, but...we`re talking about actual players only?

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 06:25 PM
a talented musician was obviously jimi hendrix rather than robbie williams or britney.

:bigcry: Britney is hugely talented ;)

NYCtennisfan
09-08-2005, 07:20 PM
How about for all time?

Geniey2g
09-08-2005, 07:56 PM
I voted for Argentina over Spain, because Arg. has more consistently solid players- with the Spaniards, French, Russians etc. you never know what you're gonna get.

federer express
09-08-2005, 08:01 PM
I voted for Argentina over Spain, because Arg. has more consistently solid players- with the Spaniards, French, Russians etc. you never know what you're gonna get.

the thread isn't for most solid nation :p

Shabazza
09-08-2005, 08:10 PM
Russia :p

vincayou
09-08-2005, 09:37 PM
I would put Monfils instead of Grosjean.
And I voted for Spain. I would have put Robredo or Ferrer instead of Verdasco though.

federer express
09-08-2005, 09:42 PM
I would put Monfils instead of Grosjean.
And I voted for Spain. I would have put Robredo or Ferrer instead of Verdasco though.

ferrer instead of verdasco???

G O
09-08-2005, 09:43 PM
China.

vincayou
09-08-2005, 09:55 PM
ferrer instead of verdasco???

Well yes it sounds weird but in term of getting the job done, Ferrer is better than Verdasco.

federer express
09-08-2005, 09:59 PM
Well yes it sounds weird but in term of getting the job done, Ferrer is better than Verdasco.

thats because he is more solid and less :cuckoo:

but not sure that makes him more talented...

Yoda
09-08-2005, 10:10 PM
Croatia with Super Mario and Lubobitch are another candidate for this thread.
Gone with the Argies

gooner88
09-08-2005, 10:30 PM
Argentina and France.
Couldn't decide between the two.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 10:31 PM
I would put Monfils instead of Grosjean.
And I voted for Spain. I would have put Robredo or Ferrer instead of Verdasco though.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

You are not being serious, surely. Probably the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard!

federer express
09-08-2005, 10:32 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha:

You are not being serious, surely. Probably the most ridiculous suggestion I have ever heard!

i been waiting for you to see that ;)

federer express
09-08-2005, 10:34 PM
how are spain catching up to the world cup winners from the year i was born?! spain wouldn't be in my top 2 i dont think :confused:

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 10:36 PM
i been waiting for you to see that ;)

It actually made me laugh out loud. I dont know if the kid was being serious, but if he was he seriously needs his head checked. Unless he thinks talented means biggest scrapper or something :shrug:

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 10:36 PM
Vamos Espanol :banana:

federer express
09-08-2005, 10:38 PM
i'm glad i put great britain in the poll because now i can...

:haha: :haha: :haha:

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 10:47 PM
To be fair, Tim and Andy are both naturally gifted players. Someone give us a vote :(

federer express
09-08-2005, 10:51 PM
To be fair, Tim and Andy are both naturally gifted players. Someone give us a vote :(

dont do it. leave tim and andy 'believe the hype soon to be better than federer, mcenroe and borg put together' murray down where they belong :p

El Legenda
09-08-2005, 10:53 PM
Ljubicic,Anicic,Karlovic and Cilic(jr FO champ, QF USO(still playing) ) for a county of 3-4 million.Croatia.

federer express
09-08-2005, 10:54 PM
Ljubicic,Anicic,Karlovic and Cilic for a county of 3-4million.

it's very impressive i admit...but should they be up there ahead of any other country?

but no doubt that per head of poulation, the croats are kicking ass...

El Legenda
09-08-2005, 10:56 PM
it's very impressive i admit...but should they be up there ahead of any other country?

but no doubt that per head of poulation, the croats are kicking ass...

with Ljubo's domiance of Henman as of last 4 matchs, they should be ahead of them, they beat US in Davis Cup twice :lol:

federer express
09-08-2005, 10:58 PM
with Ljubo's domiance of Henman as of last 4 matchs, they should be ahead of them, they beat US in Davis Cup twice :lol:

ljubo is a hard worker and has become a very good player. but for me he doesn't exude talent

federer express
09-08-2005, 11:00 PM
i expected a more even distribution of votes.

honestly thought arguments could be made for belgium, russia and germany...
(and switzerland, france and usa)

El Legenda
09-08-2005, 11:01 PM
ljubo is a hard worker and has become a very good player. but for me he doesn't exude talent

but Ancic has more talent then Ljubo , but look at him, underachiving his whole career. talent doesnt always give results. but look out for Cilic he is 16 FO champ, probly only Croat that can play on clay, playing is USO QF 2moro.

federer express
09-08-2005, 11:03 PM
but Ancic has more talent then Ljubo , but look at him, underachiving his whole career. talent doesnt always give results. but look out for Cilic he is 16 FO champ, probly only Croat that can play on clay, playing is USO QF 2moro.

possible meeting with trump in the final...

El Legenda
09-08-2005, 11:03 PM
possible meeting with trump in the final...

would love to see Cilic(2) vs Young(1) in Jr Final.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 11:06 PM
Ducky I have nothing but respect for what the Croats have achieved. But I\\\'d say only Ancic is particularly talented. Ivan and Ivo just do amazing jobs at getting the most out of what they have been blessed with, they arent hugely talented. I must admit, I have only seen Cilic once so I cant really comment on him.

El Legenda
09-08-2005, 11:10 PM
Ducky I have nothing but respect for what the Croats have achieved. But I\\\'d say only Ancic is particularly talented. Ivan and Ivo just do amazing jobs at getting the most out of what they have been blessed with, they arent hugely talented. I must admit, I have only seen Cilic once so I cant really comment on him.

i agree, but like i said talent does not always = wins. look at on women's side Anna Kournikova, shit load of talent but no hard work, i think hard work is as important as talent. + if you add what these guys (mostly Ljubicic) has been threw to get here is amazing, living in a war, leaving your family not knowing if your ever gonna see them again, go to different country to play tennis, then became top 20 player, beat the living shit out of the "dream team" in DC= Amazing :worship:

thats all for me, time to go play tennis.

adee-gee
09-08-2005, 11:12 PM
I agree with everything you say. But if we are judging it on pure talent, I wouldnt have them in my top 5. A decent shout nevertheless.

I see Espanol and Argentina are tied in the lead, exciting stuff :p

federer express
09-08-2005, 11:13 PM
I agree with everything you say. But if we are judging it on pure talent, I wouldnt have them in my top 5. A decent shout nevertheless.

I see Espanol and Argentina are tied in the lead, exciting stuff :p

there must be more spanish posters around today :)

vincayou
09-08-2005, 11:32 PM
It actually made me laugh out loud. I dont know if the kid was being serious, but if he was he seriously needs his head checked. Unless he thinks talented means biggest scrapper or something :shrug:

Same people whining when people suggest that Gasquet is more talented than Nadal. Double standard. What exactly has Verdasco achieved so far in his career?

Nada. Oh yes he won valencia 2 years ago.

Even when Federer was considered a headcase, or mentally fragile, he was winning x tournaments a year, master series event etc...
Verdasco?

Nada. Oh yes Valencia.

And you argue that Verdasco is the more talented of the whole bunch. Who needs his head checked now?

federer express
09-08-2005, 11:34 PM
Same people whining when people suggest that Gasquet is more talented than Nadal. Double standard. What exactly has Verdasco achieved so far in his career?

Nada. Oh yes he won valencia 2 years ago.

Even when Federer was considered a headcase, or mentally fragile, he was winning x tournaments a year, master series event etc...
Verdasco?

Nada. Oh yes Valencia.

And you argue that Verdasco is the more talented of the whole bunch. Who needs his head checked now?

fight fight fight :p

vincayou
09-08-2005, 11:50 PM
Verdasco is probably the more talented at frustrating his fans. I could agree on that.

federer express
09-09-2005, 12:20 AM
one half of the swiss team beating up on one half of the argies right now...

Scotso
09-09-2005, 04:26 AM
Spain by far.

Ferrero Forever
09-09-2005, 09:50 AM
SPAIN!!!