New Orleans [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

New Orleans

El Legenda
08-30-2005, 11:05 PM
today 2 main leeves broke down and now 80% of the city is under water. some up to 20-25feet.

Jennay
08-30-2005, 11:10 PM
:sobbing: :crying2:

I just had to shut off the news, it's too upsetting.

El Legenda
08-30-2005, 11:19 PM
i find this really upsetting



Even a cop joins in the looting

Mike Perlstein and Brian Thevenot
Staff writers

Law enforcement efforts to contain the emergency left by Katrina slipped into chaos in parts of New Orleans Tuesday with some police officers and firefighters joining looters in picking stores clean.

At the Wal-Mart on Tchoupitoulas Street, an initial effort to hand out provisions to stranded citizens quickly disintegrated into mass looting. Authorities at the scene said bedlam erupted after the giveaway was announced over the radio.

While many people carried out food and essential supplies, others cleared out jewelry racks and carted out computers, TVs and appliances on handtrucks.

Some officers joined in taking whatever they could, including one New Orleans cop who loaded a shopping cart with a compact computer and a 27-inch flat screen television.

Officers claimed there was nothing they could do to contain the anarchy, saying their radio communications have broken down and they had no direction from commanders.

“We don’t have enough cops to stop it,” an officer said. “A mass riot would break out if you tried.”

Inside the store, the scene alternated between celebration and frightening bedlam. A shirtless man straddled a broken jewelry case, yelling, “Free samples, free samples over here.”

Another man rolled a mechanized pallet, stacked six feet high with cases of vodka and whiskey. Perched atop the stack was a bewildered toddler.

Throughout the store and parking lot, looters pushed carts and loaded trucks and vans alongside officers. One man said police directed him to Wal-Mart from Robert’s Grocery, where a similar scene was taking place. A crowd in the electronics section said one officer broke the glass DVD case so people wouldn’t cut themselves.

“The police got all the best stuff. They’re crookeder than us,” one man said.

Most officers, though, simply stood by powerless against the tide of law breakers.

One veteran officer said, “It’s like this everywhere in the city. This tiny number of cops can’t do anything about this. It’s wide open.”

At least one officer tried futilely to control a looter through shame.

“When they say take what you need, that doesn’t mean an f-ing TV,” the officer shouted to a looter. “This is a hurricane, not a free-for-all.”

Sandra Smith of Baton Rouge walked through the parking lot with a 12-pack of Bud Light under each arm. “I came down here to get my daughters,” she said, “but I can’t find them.”

The scene turned so chaotic at times that entrances were blocked by the press of people and shopping carts and traffic jams sprouted on surrounding streets.

Some groups organized themselves into assembly lines to more efficiently cart off goods.

Toni Williams, 25, packed her trunk with essential supplies, such as food and water, but said mass looting disgusted and frightened her.

“I didn’t feel safe. Some people are going overboard,” she said.

Inside the store, one woman was stocking up on make-up. She said she took comfort in watching police load up their own carts.

“It must be legal,” she said. “The police are here taking stuff, too.”

Haute
08-31-2005, 12:43 AM
I hope they get fired.

Although what's really sickening is that there have been gas stations (ones that are still open anyway) that have been price gouging people all across the areas that have been hit by the hurricane.

El Legenda
08-31-2005, 12:45 AM
I hope they get fired.

Although what's really sickening is that there have been gas stations (ones that are still open anyway) that have been price gouging people all across the areas that have been hit by the hurricane.

Gas is $2.30 in St.Louis, but should go up .20 by Friday

Haute
08-31-2005, 12:50 AM
CNN was reporting that gas could reach $3.00/gallon by the end of the week, but they were saying too that individual gas stations was already charging way more than that, and not because the company was telling them to.

Purple Rainbow
08-31-2005, 12:54 AM
Hey, Rducky, when posting an article, could you provide a link to the source too?

Anyway, the situation in The Big Easy must be horrible. Hopefully the death toll will not be too high. :sad:

El Legenda
08-31-2005, 01:19 AM
Hey, Rducky, when posting an article, could you provide a link to the source too?

http://www.nola.com/ its best website for live updates..the people running the website..is a newspaper NO and they have been in there building in downtown the whole time.

Socket
08-31-2005, 03:02 AM
Is it too late to give New Orleans back to the French?

Lee
08-31-2005, 04:00 AM
It's not the French corrupt New Orleans though. And NOPD is quite famous for its corruption.

El Legenda
08-31-2005, 04:19 AM
the city is fucked...its like a bowl..when the water does in and only way to get it out is pumps..which are broken....also being under sea-level is not helping.

Angle Queen
08-31-2005, 01:50 PM
My cousin lives in New Orleans. Here's his update:

We escaped Sunday morning about 9:30am... we made it to MS pretty quickly using US90, but once we got on I-10, we hit the parking lot at Gulfport,. We went up through rural Alabama and then made our way over to Tallahassee where we stayed for two nights. We are in Orlando with Jill's sister, brother-in-law, nephew and son. We want to go back ASAP on one hand, but are resigned to stay away for several weeks or a month(s???). We are not thrilled about the prospect of being in NOLA without electricity, food or services, and are a bit concerned about looters. Thanks to all who have offered a place to stay, we may take you up on it because we can't expect anyone to keep us for very long....

As you can see from the news, our town is basically f!@#$%cked.
Geographically, it is a bowl, and levees were breached downtown (doesn't affect our house) and out by the lake near Bucktown but on the New Orleans side of the 17th st canal. (one the map that is the one dividing NOLA from Jeff Parish). We live near the river, which is on top/'side' of the bowl, fortunately above sea-level. We hope that saves our home from flooding, as the scenario seems to be that the water should stop coming in once it levels out at sea-level, if they can't repair the levee before that.

We are obviously a million times better off than 80% of the town which experienced flooding, some massive, and in many parts of town, very poor and crime-ridden. Please keep all of us in your prayers.

Just a quick update on the Irish Channel, at least the 2300 block of Constance (between Philip & Constance). Our tenant Saul stayed in town, attempting to ride it out in a hi-rise near us at St Charles & Jackson. He eventually was evacuated to the Hilton, and is fine. He walked by today, no signs of flooding, minor wind damage, no signs of major damage to or looting of any of the homes. I'm :fiery: at the scenes on the news of the looting. It's disgraceful.

jole
08-31-2005, 03:34 PM
New Orleans was such a fucking mess prior to this, the last thing they needed is some massive hurricane.

Fun place to visit, horrible place to live.

the cat
08-31-2005, 11:28 PM
Hurricane Katrina flooding New Orleans is a tragic and heart breaking story. :sad: And it makes something like tennis seem insignificant.

Haute
08-31-2005, 11:38 PM
As may as 1,000 people may have died now. :sad:

El Legenda
08-31-2005, 11:53 PM
As may as 1,000 people may have died now. :sad:

its much more then that. there is so many that got stuck in there attics and could of not gotten out of the proof. when its all cleared up in about 3-4 months..that # will be around 5000

no one is gonna live in the city for about 2 months...its impossible to live in it.

the cat
08-31-2005, 11:56 PM
And they have to worry about diseases spreading too. :(

Socket
09-01-2005, 12:58 AM
And you know what? A year from now, the city will be back in business. They'll pump the water out, clean the place up, re-string the phone and electric wires, and residents and businesses will come right back. It looks like a horrible mess now (and it is), but it won't stay that way for too long. And tourism will be better than ever, once the city is back up and operating.

RickDaStick
09-01-2005, 01:22 AM
And you know what? A year from now, the city will be back in business. They'll pump the water out, clean the place up, re-string the phone and electric wires, and residents and businesses will come right back. It looks like a horrible mess now (and it is), but it won't stay that way for too long. And tourism will be better than ever, once the city is back up and operating.


Maybe so, but that day looks a long way away.

buddyholly
09-01-2005, 01:50 AM
When Bourbon St. and Providence Hall reopen I'll go and spend some tourists dollars there.

Socket
09-01-2005, 02:26 AM
Maybe so, but that day looks a long way away.
The Port of New Orleans will be re-built first. That's an absolute necessity, because it handles more traffic than any other port in the US. The federal government will make sure that happens, and quickly. The levee system will be completely re-done, instead of the patchwork (if pretty) system that existed before.

A lot of the historic older building are going to be condemned because of water damage. Look for new resorts and new condos/hotels to replace the old, ugly projects. Poor people are going to be displaced, but there will be the gentrification that will bring in a more prosperous taxbase.

El Legenda
09-01-2005, 05:58 AM
And you know what? A year from now, the city will be back in business. They'll pump the water out, clean the place up, re-string the phone and electric wires, and residents and businesses will come right back. It looks like a horrible mess now (and it is), but it won't stay that way for too long. And tourism will be better than ever, once the city is back up and operating.

no wont be that easy, the city has huge problem..hurricanes are a yearly thing..that can happen again next fall. hopefully in wont. pumping out the water will take long time, cleaning up..picked up 1000's of bodys..building 100000 homes...city will never be the same.

El Legenda
09-01-2005, 06:03 AM
ohh and when the water goes down...all the human waste(shit) will be on the ground. cuz everything is broken. 100,000 cars fucked. stores robbed, like i said, this time next year, they still will be repairing the town and most people will live someone where else.

Purple Rainbow
09-01-2005, 10:50 AM
Evil terrorist leader, drugs mogul and self-proclaimed anti-America jihadist Hugo Chavez offers oil, water and other aid to Katrina-struck area...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1450652.htm

Venezuela offers oil, aid to hurricane-battered US
Venezuela offered emergency funds and fuel to the hurricane-battered United States, rubbing salt into the wounded relationship between the two countries.

"The Government and the nation of the Bolivaran Republic of Venezuela express to the United States and its leaders their dismay over the magnitude and consequences of Hurricane Katrina," the foreign ministry said in a statement.

"Venezuela reiterates the offer of President Hugo Chavez to send fuel and humanitarian aid to the United States to help alleviate the effects of this catastrophe."

US State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said he was "not aware of any such offers" of aid or oil from Venezuela.

Caracas' offer came after more than one million people were forced from their homes in the southern United States by the massive hurricane.

The storm also shut down major US oil industry import and refining operations, leading to fears of fuel shortages in the short-term.

The offer also came after months of deterioration in the relationship with Washington, which has branded Mr Chavez a "negative force" in the region.

Mr Chavez has threatened to cut off oil supplies to the US.

US evangelist Pat Robertson called last week for the US to assassinate the democratically elected Mr Chavez, who inturn accused Washington of "giving protection to a terrorist who is demanding the assassination of a legitimate president".

Jim Jones
09-01-2005, 11:12 AM
where is KoOlMaNsTeVeN ? I was expecting him to blame the tragedy on Bush. Anyway, what are the chances of this hurricanne being a cause of the greenhouse effect? There should be less SUV's on the street & more focus on developing hybrid and other cars.

sigmagirl91
09-01-2005, 11:33 AM
Gas is $2.30 in St.Louis, but should go up .20 by Friday

Gas is already $3.00 here.

Purple Rainbow
09-01-2005, 11:59 AM
Gas is already $3.00 here.

How much liters go into a gallon? We are paying over 1.30 euro here a liter, or 1.60 US dollar. Makes me think you're still pretty well off, compared to Holland!
If you want cheap oil, you'd better go to the evil muslim jihadist communist country of Venezuela, where oil costs 0.12$!

Jim Jones
09-01-2005, 12:07 PM
pfff, that's nothing. Oil in iraq costs 25 cents per gallon. This foolish act was done by the Baathist regime of saddam and it will be hard to change that now due to instability. Oil in Nigeria is 41 cents per gallon and the President wants to increase it to 49 cents but labor unions are threatening to strike. Bloody labor unions :( So much money wasted on these needless subsidies, will be hard to reform these countries.

undomiele
09-01-2005, 12:17 PM
This was bound to happen unfortunately. And its a shame. I love New Orleans. It was my favourite city in the US. :sad:

(Chavez es una masa. )

Angle Queen
09-01-2005, 01:28 PM
When Bourbon St. and Providence Hall reopen I'll go and spend some tourists dollars there.ditto

Edit to add:

That said, I have a real problem with us continuing to rebuild in places where we shouldn't be. We can win the short term battle with Mother Nature with levees and floodwalls and pumps...but she will always ultimately triumph. There's a reason The Quarter is on the 'high' ground (that's an admittedly relative term). All the other parts should never have been built in the first place.

My heart and my dollars go out to the people of New Orleans but take a clue. They've always known disaster was just around the corner and now it has arrived. It is sad...but was oh so predictable.

Socket
09-01-2005, 02:30 PM
ditto

Edit to add:

That said, I have a real problem with us continuing to rebuild in places where we shouldn't be. We can win the short term battle with Mother Nature with levees and floodwalls and pumps...but she will always ultimately triumph. There's a reason The Quarter is on the 'high' ground (that's an admittedly relative term). All the other parts should never have been built in the first place.

My heart and my dollars go out to the people of New Orleans but take a clue. They've always known disaster was just around the corner and now it has arrived. It is sad...but was oh so predictable.
This is a good point . . . today, nobody would build anything on a site that's below sea level and which requires levees and an extensive pumping system just to survive routine rain storms. But nobody is going to suggest just leaving a lake there . . . Louisiana is very dependent on New Orleans' tourist dollars and revenues from the ports and refineries, and so everybody in the state has a huge incentive to get the place cleaned up, no matter what the initial cost. FEMA has already earmarked over $4 billion for New Orleans, Gulfport, etc.

Purple Rainbow
09-01-2005, 03:04 PM
This is a good point . . . today, nobody would build anything on a site that's below sea level and which requires levees and an extensive pumping system just to survive routine rain storms. But nobody is going to suggest just leaving a lake there . . . Louisiana is very dependent on New Orleans' tourist dollars and revenues from the ports and refineries, and so everybody in the state has a huge incentive to get the place cleaned up, no matter what the initial cost. FEMA has already earmarked over $4 billion for New Orleans, Gulfport, etc.

Please, don't discuss about flooding below sea level when Dutchies are lurking. The whole existence of our country is based on the fact that our dykes keep the water out! :scared:

Socket
09-01-2005, 03:56 PM
Please, don't discuss about flooding below sea level when Dutchies are lurking. The whole existence of our country is based on the fact that our dykes keep the water out! :scared:
But lucky for you, you don't have to worry about hurricanes.

El Legenda
09-01-2005, 05:21 PM
There reason gas is cheaper in Iraq and Venezuela is they dont have taxes on gas and there roads suck, since they dont have $ from taxes to build roads....if there is no taxes on gas in US. gas would be 54% cheaper...gas it self only costs 46% of price that is now

so lets all thank BUSH for fucking us. who needs better roads :lol:

Turkeyballs Paco
09-01-2005, 10:55 PM
I think lots of people won't go back to live there. When Galveston was ruined by that really awful hurricane in the early 1900's, Houston wasn't really even on the map. After that, everyone pretty much settled in Houston, now Galveston is really very small and insignificant in comparison. I figure most people will stay around Louisiana, and maybe this will mean Shreveport or Baton Rouge will grow, but I would bet New Orleans will never be the same again. And loads of people will also move elsewhere, like Houston.

Socket
09-01-2005, 11:27 PM
I think lots of people won't go back to live there. When Galveston was ruined by that really awful hurricane in the early 1900's, Houston wasn't really even on the map. After that, everyone pretty much settled in Houston, now Galveston is really very small and insignificant in comparison. I figure most people will stay around Louisiana, and maybe this will mean Shreveport or Baton Rouge will grow, but I would bet New Orleans will never be the same again. And loads of people will also move elsewhere, like Houston.
A lot of people will be priced out, once the new housing is built. This is one hell of a way to gentrify the city. It'll be all new condos, hotels, and resorts, no old, historic housing. Whatever is still standing, will be condemned due to water damage.

Rudy Guiliani needs to get involved in the rescue and rebuilding effort. Nobody is better than Rudy at this kind of situation.

Jim Jones
09-01-2005, 11:41 PM
There reason gas is cheaper in Iraq and Venezuela is they dont have taxes on gas and there roads suck, since they dont have $ from taxes to build roads....if there is no taxes on gas in US. gas would be 54% cheaper...gas it self only costs 46% of price that is now

so lets all thank BUSH for fucking us. who needs better roads :lol:
Or lets thank humanity for being lazy and not encouraging their leaders to use alternative uses of energy which would not harm the environment.

Turkeyballs Paco
09-01-2005, 11:53 PM
Or lets thank humanity for being lazy and not encouraging their leaders to use alternative uses of energy which would not harm the environment.

I don't think it's about laziness. It's about the bottom line for big business. The quick dollar is king. Looking down the road isn't going to make anyone rich enough right now. :shrug:

Saumon
09-01-2005, 11:54 PM
How much liters go into a gallon? We are paying over 1.30 euro here a liter, or 1.60 US dollar. Makes me think you're still pretty well off, compared to Holland!
yeah same here in France (thank to taxes) but I still dont get why American people complain about their gas price... but well if they didnt have such big polluting cars too... :rolleyes:

El Legenda
09-02-2005, 02:59 AM
Or lets thank humanity for being lazy and not encouraging their leaders to use alternative uses of energy which would not harm the environment.

u wanna know why thats not happening. all the oil companys bought up patens for Alternative uses of energy plans. which have been made since 1960.. they make more money with only gas being used.

Haute
09-02-2005, 03:41 AM
I cannot believe what I'm hearing on CNN now. People in New Orleans are killing each other over supplies, shooting at helicopters, and even ****** women! WTF?!?!

Take away the government's ability to maintain order, and it just goes to show how parts of American society are no better than what's going on in Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, etc. Where's the so-called morality in America now that enabled Bush to get re-elected?

Socket
09-02-2005, 04:42 AM
I cannot believe what I'm hearing on CNN now. People in New Orleans are killing each other over supplies, shooting at helicopters, and even ****** women! WTF?!?!

Take away the government's ability to maintain order, and it just goes to show how parts of American society are no better than what's going on in Iraq, Somalia, Sudan, etc. Where's the so-called morality in America now that enabled Bush to get re-elected?
These are Kerry voters. I guarantee it.

El Legenda
09-02-2005, 06:02 AM
These are Kerry voters. I guarantee it.

Few Months ago Bush, cut the South LA Hurricane and Flooding Budget for 70% to help the war in Iraq, cuz it cost so much.

so he fucks his own people and helps other.

Clara Bow
09-02-2005, 07:29 AM
Few Months ago Bush, cut the South LA Hurricane and Flooding Budget for 70% to help the war in Iraq, cuz it cost so much.

I saw that on CNN and that made me so livid. President Jackass also cut funding for work by the Army Corps of Engineers on the levees.

Since the local, state and federal government knew that New Orleans was under constant thread of horrible flooding and devestation during a hurricane, they needed to have an massive evacuation plan in place to move people who did not have the money or were too frail to leave. It is not easy for the really poor to get up and go if they have no transportation or no money for hotels. As one woman at the convention center said, some of these people don't even have the change for the toll roads . So how could they evacuate without an evacuation plan.


And there has to be a special place in hell for those thugs that are using the storm to steal tvs, shoot at people evacuating hospitals, and **** women and girls. And this utter cockroaches are preventing people who don't want to harm anyone and just want to survive and get food, water and a shower from being rescued and evacuated because it is more difficult to do so.

The slow way that the federal government has reacted to this has been utterly appaling.

Shabazza
09-02-2005, 11:32 AM
it's sad and disgusting - humans are animals after all :sad:

Mrs. B
09-02-2005, 12:44 PM
i've been to New Orleans and had a great time there, stayed at the Royal Sonesta Hotel on Bourbon Street and attended the Jazz Festival. The boat trip on the Mississippi river will always be memorable to me and my husband.

it's sad to hear about all the chaos, anarchy and tragedy that's happening there. :sad:

Jim Jones
09-02-2005, 12:53 PM
Few Months ago Bush, cut the South LA Hurricane and Flooding Budget for 70% to help the war in Iraq, cuz it cost so much.

so he fucks his own people and helps other.
Since when there was a south LA hurricane budget? You mean there are local budgets for potential huricannes? In 2 year there may be a tornado in Wyoming. Does that mean that there is a local tornado budget for Wyoming? Hey you may be right but this all seems a little fishy. If this is not the case you should read figures from reliable sources. Weren't you one who was affirming that the Iraqi war cost 100,000 dead people and you were shown a reliable source that said that this figure was highly disputed.

jole
09-02-2005, 02:05 PM
Hopefully the military presence going there will start mowing down these animals who are wandering around the city shooting up people.

Socket
09-02-2005, 02:08 PM
Yes, President Bush cut funding. So did President Clinton while he was in office. If people would actually bother to research issues before they shot their mouths off, they'd know this. From the Times-Picuyne newspaper, here's what President Clinton did -- and did NOT -- do for flood control while he was in office.

February 17, 1995

An Army Corps of Engineers "hit list" of recommended budget cuts would eliminate new flood-control programs in some of the nation's most flood-prone spots - where recent disasters have left thousands homeless and cost the federal government millions in emergency aid.

Clinton administration officials argue that the flood-control efforts are local projects, not national, and should be paid for by local taxes.

Nationwide, the administration proposes cutting 98 new projects in 35 states and Puerto Rico, for an estimated savings of $29 million in 1996.

Corps officials freely conceded the cuts, which represent only a small portion of savings the corps ultimately must make, may be penny-wise and pound-foolish. But they said they were forced to eliminate some services the corps has historically provided to taxpayers to meet the administration's budget-cutting goals.

June 23, 1995

A hurricane project, approved and financed since 1965, to protect more than 140,000 West Bank residents east of the Harvey Canal is in jeopardy.

The Clinton administration is holding back a Corps of Engineers report recommending that the $120 million project proceed. Unless that report is forwarded to the Office of Management and Budget, Congress cannot authorize money for the project, U.S. Rep. William Jefferson's office said Thursday.

On June 9, John Zirschky, the acting assistant secretary of the Army and the official who refused to forward the report, sent a memo to the corps, saying the recommendation for the project "is not consistent with the policies and budget priorities reflected in the President's Fiscal Year 1996 budget. Accordingly, I will not forward the report to the Office of Management and Budget for clearance."

July 26, 1996

The House voted Thursday for a $19.4 billion energy and water bill that provides $246 million for Army Corps of Engineers projects in Louisiana.

The bill, approved 391-23, is the last of the 13 annual spending measures for 1997 approved by the House.

One area in which the House approved more financing than the president requested was for flood control and maintenance of harbors and shipping routes by the Army Corps of Engineers.

Flood control projects along the Mississippi River and its tributaries were allotted $303 million, or $10 million more than the president wanted.

June 19, 1996

The Army Corps of Engineers, which builds most flood protection levees on a federal-local cost-sharing basis, uses a cost-benefit ratio to justify a project. If the cost of building a levee is considered less than the cost of restoring a flood-ravaged area, the project is more likely to be approved.

For years, the Jean Lafitte-Lower Lafitte-Barataria-Crown Point areas couldn't convince the corps they were worthy of levee protection. But the use of Section 205 and congressional pressure has given the corps a new perspective, Spohrer said.

But even so, when the Clinton administration began to curtail spending on flood control and other projects a year ago, the corps stopped spending on Section 205 projects even after deciding to do a $70,000 preliminary Jean Lafitte study, Spohrer said.

July 22, 1999

In passing a $20.2 billion spending bill this week for water and energy projects, the House Appropriations Committee approved some significant increases in financing for several New Orleans area flood control and navigational projects.

The spending bill is expected on the House floor within the next two weeks.

For the New Orleans District of the Army Corps of Engineers, the panel allocated $106 million for construction projects, about $16 million more than proposed by President Clinton.

The bill would provide $47 million for "southeast Louisiana flood control projects," $16 million for "Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity hurricane protection," $15.9 million for the Inner Harbor Navigation Canal Lock on the Industrial Canal in New Orleans and $2 million for "West Bank hurricane protection -- from New Orleans to Venice."

Most of the projects received significant increases over what the Clinton administration had proposed. The exception: general flood control projects for southeast Louisiana, which remained at the $47 million suggested by Clinton. Local officials had hoped for double that amount.

February 8, 2000

For the metropolitan New Orleans area, Clinton's budget was seen as a mixed bag by local lawmakers and government officials. For instance, while Clinton called for $1.5 billion to be spent at Avondale Industries to continue building LPD-17 landing craft, his budget calls for significantly less than what Congress appropriated last year for Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity hurricane protection and for West Bank flood control projects.

September 29, 2000

The House approved Thursday a $23.6 billion measure for water and energy programs, with sizable increases for several New Orleans area flood-control projects. The Senate will vote Monday, but it may be a while before the bill is enacted.

President Clinton is promising to veto the annual appropriation for the Energy Department and Army Corps of Engineers, not because it is $890 million larger than he proposed, but because it does not include a plan to alter the levels of the Missouri River to protect endangered fish and birds.

Socket
09-02-2005, 02:13 PM
it's sad and disgusting - humans are animals after all :sad:
Well, the people you see you on television are acting like animals, and I think that the police and National Guard should shot them on sight, because they're preventing the evacuation of people who are behaving properly. But remember that for every person who is being shown acting like a wild beast, there are at least 20 whom you won't see on television who has donated time or money to assist the relief effort.

Jim Jones
09-02-2005, 02:23 PM
I agree shoot them if necessary. By the way thanks for the info on huricannes but still does not show a budget specifically for one area as RDucky was mentionning. There is no Louisanna huricanne budget. This is for any area in the U.S. not just for Louisanna. Finally, this is not against Clinton but people remember actions not just words. Clinton can say what he wants.

jole
09-02-2005, 02:27 PM
Well, the people you see you on television are acting like animals, and I think that the police and National Guard should shot them on sight, because they're preventing the evacuation of people who are behaving properly. But remember that for every person who is being shown acting like a wild beast, there are at least 20 whom you won't see on television who has donated time or money to assist the relief effort.

Yes, that is a very good point. Such is the sensationalist way of the media I guess, with bad press getting way more airtime than good press.

Socket
09-02-2005, 02:38 PM
I agree shoot them if necessary. by the way thanks for the info on huricannes but still does not show a budget specifically for one area as RDucky was mentionning. There is no Louisanna huricanne budge. This is for any area in the U.S. not just for Louisanna. Byt he way this is not against Clinton but peopel remember actions not just words.
These articles are from the New Orleans newspaper, and places like the Harvey Canal are part of the levee system. The entire southeast Lousiana levee system is treated as a whole for budget purposes, and it includes Lake Pontchartrain and the section of the Mississippi River that runs south of NO.

the cat
09-02-2005, 06:44 PM
Interesting posts Socket. And thanks for the info so we can unsderstand what was done and why hurricane funding cuts were made.

star
09-02-2005, 08:36 PM
The Perfect Storm
New Orleans and the Death of the Common Good

By CHRIS FLOYD Counterpunch, September 1, 2005

"The river rose all day,
The river rose all night.
Some people got lost in the flood,
Some people got away all right.
The river have busted through clear down to Plaquemine:
Six feet of water in the streets of Evangeline.

"Louisiana, Louisiana,
They're trying to wash us away,
They're trying to wash us away."

-- Randy Newman, Louisiana 1927

The destruction of New Orleans represents a confluence of many of the most
pernicious trends in American politics and culture: poverty, racism,
militarism, elitist greed, environmental abuse, public corruption and the
decay of democracy at every level.

Much of this is embodied in the odd phrasing that even the most circumspect
mainstream media sources have been using to describe the hardest-hit
victims of the storm and its devastating aftermath: "those who chose to
stay behind." Instantly, the situation has been framed with language to
flatter the prejudices of the comfortable and deny the reality of the most
vulnerable.

It is obvious that the vast majority of those who failed to evacuate are
poor: they had nowhere else to go, no way to get there, no means to sustain
themselves and their families on strange ground. While there were certainly
people who stayed behind by choice, most stayed behind because they had no
choice. They were trapped by their poverty and many have paid the price
with their lives.

Yet across the media spectrum, the faint hint of disapproval drips from the
affluent observers, the clear implication that the victims were just too
lazy and shiftless to get out of harm's way. There is simply no
understanding not even an attempt at understanding the destitution, the
isolation, the immobility of the poor and the sick and the broken among us.

This is from the "respectable" media; the great right-wing echo chamber was
even less restrained, of course, leaping straight into giddy convulsions of
racism at the first reports of looting in the devastated city. In the
pinched-gonad squeals of Rush Limbaugh and his fellow hatemongers, the
hard-right media immediately conjured up images of wild-eyed darkies
rampaging through the streets in an orgy of violence and thievery.

Not that the mainstreamers ignored the racist angle. There was the already
infamous juxtaposition of captions for wire service photos, where
depictions of essentially the same scene desperate people wading through
flood waters, clutching plastic bags full of groceries were given
markedly different spins. In one picture, a white couple are described as
struggling along after finding bread and soda at a grocery store. But
beneath an almost identical photo of a young black man with a bag of
groceries, we are told that a "looter" wades through the streets after
robbing a grocery store. In the photo I saw, this evil miscreant also had a


Almost all of the early "looting" was like this: desperate people of all
colors stranded by the floodwaters broke into abandoned stores and
carried off food, clean water, medicine, clothes. Perhaps they should have
left a check on the counter, but then again what exactly was going to
happen to all those perishables and consumer goods, sitting around in
fetid, diseased water for weeks on end? (The mayor now says it could be up
to 16 weeks before people can return to their homes and businesses.)
Obviously, most if not all of it would have been thrown away or written off
in any case. Later, of course, there was more organized looting by criminal
gangs, the type of lawless element of every hue, in every society whose
chief victims are, of course, the poor and vulnerable. These criminal
operations were quickly conflated with the earlier pilferage to paint a
single seamless picture of the American media's favorite horror story:
Black Folk Gone Wild.

But here again another question was left unasked: Where were the resources

those forced to stay behind, and given them someplace safe and sustaining
to take shelter? Where, indeed, were the resources that could have
bolstered the city's defenses and shored up its levees? Where were the
National Guard troops that could have secured the streets and directed
survivors to food and aid? Where were the public resources the physical
manifestation of the citizenry's commitment to the common good that could
have greatly mitigated the brutal effects of this natural disaster?

"President Coolidge came down here in a railroad train,
With a little fat man with a notebook in his hand.
The president say, "Little fat man, isn't it a shame
What the river has done to this poor cracker's land?"

Well, we all know what happened to those vital resources. They had been cut
back, stripped down, gutted, pilfered looted to pay for a war of
aggression, to pay for a tax cut for the wealthiest, safest, most protected
Americans, to gorge the coffers of a small number of private and corporate
fortunes, while letting the public sector the common good wither and
die on the vine. These were all specific actions of the Bush Administration

to bolster New Orleans' defenses against a catastrophic hurricane. Bush
even cut money for strengthening the very levees that broke and delivered
the deathblow to the city. All this, in the face of specific warnings of
what would happen if these measures were neglected: the city would go down
"under 20 feet of water," one expert predicted just a few weeks ago.

But Bush said there was no money for this kind of folderol anymore. The
federal budget had been busted by his tax cuts and his war. And this was a
deliberate policy: as Bush's mentor Grover Norquist famously put it, the
whole Bushist ethos was to starve the federal government of funds,
shrinking it down so "we can drown it in the bathtub." As it turned out,
the bathtub wasn't quite big enough -- so they drowned it in the streets of
New Orleans instead.

But as culpable, criminal and loathsome as the Bush Administration is, it
is only the apotheosis of an overarching trend in American society that has
been gathering force for decades: the destruction of the idea of a common
good, a public sector whose benefits and responsibilities are shared by
all, and directed by the consent of the governed. For more than 30 years,
the corporate Right has waged a relentless and highly focused campaign
against the common good, seeking to atomize individuals into isolated
"consumer units" whose political energies kept deliberately underinformed
by the ubiquitous corporate media can be diverted into emotionalized "hot
button" issues (gay marriage, school prayer, intelligent design, flag
burning, welfare queens, drugs, porn, abortion, teen sex, commie
subversion, terrorist threats, etc., etc.) that never threaten Big Money's
bottom line.

Again deliberately, with smear, spin and sham, they have sought and
succeeded in poisoning the well of the democratic process, turning it
into a tabloid melee where only "character counts" while the rapacious
policies of Big Money's bought-and-sold candidates are completely ignored.
As Big Money solidified its ascendancy over government, pouring billions
over and under the table into campaign coffers, politicians could ignore
larger and larger swathes of the people. If you can't hook yourself up to a
well-funded, coffer-filling interest group, if you can't hire a big-time
Beltway player to lobby your cause and get you "a seat at the table," then
your voice goes unheard, your concerns are shunted aside. (Apart from a few
cynical gestures around election-time, of course.) The poor, the sick, the
weak, the vulnerable have become invisible in the media, in the corporate
boardroom, "at the table" of the power players in national, state and local
governments. The increasingly marginalized and unstable middle class is
also fading from the consciousness of the rulers, whose servicing of the
elite goes more brazen and frantic all the time.

When unbridled commercial development of delicately balanced environments
like the Mississippi Delta is bruited "at the table," whose voice is heard?
Not the poor, who, as we have seen this week, will overwhelmingly bear the
brunt of the overstressed environment. And not the middle class, who might
opt for the security of safer, saner development policies to protect their
hard-won homes and businesses. No, the only voice that matters is that of
the developers themselves, and the elite investors who stand behind them.

"Louisiana, Louisiana,
They're trying to wash us away"

The destruction of New Orleans was a work of nature but a nature that has
been worked upon by human hands and human policies. As global climate
change continues its deadly symbiosis with unbridled commercial development
for elite profit, we will see more such destruction, far more, on an even
more devastating scale. As the harsh, aggressive militarism and brutal
corporate ethos that Bush has injected into the mainstream of American
society continues to spread its poison, we will see fewer and fewer
resources available to nurture the common good. As the political process
becomes more and more corrupt, ever more a creation of elite puppetmasters
and their craven bagmen, we will see the poor and the weak and even the
middle class driven further and further into the low ground of society,
where every passing storm economic, political, natural will threaten
their homes, their livelihoods, their very existence.

"Louisiana, Louisiana,
They're trying to wash us away
They're trying to wash us away
They're trying to wash us away
They're trying to wash us away"

Haute
09-02-2005, 11:53 PM
I agree shoot them if necessary. By the way thanks for the info on huricannes but still does not show a budget specifically for one area as RDucky was mentionning. There is no Louisanna huricanne budget. This is for any area in the U.S. not just for Louisanna. Finally, this is not against Clinton but people remember actions not just words. Clinton can say what he wants.

I've heard that now that the military is down there, they're being told to shoot on site anyone who is looting an exorbitant amount or are preventing others from evacuating.

Clara Bow
09-03-2005, 10:15 PM
Well, wish me good luck. We have some thousands of refugees/survivors coming to Austin in the next hours. I signed up for volunteer duty so I hope it goes well, although I imagine I won't be able to be back here for several weeks. I have to report to the Austin Convention Center tommmorow and imagine that will be quite busy for a while.


Keep you prayers going for all of the good folks who just want to be rescued or restart their destroyed lives.

Lee
09-04-2005, 12:39 AM
:yeah: Clara Bow. Some may come all the way to Arizona.

undomiele
09-04-2005, 01:36 AM
What an uncertain place the world has become. :sad:

sigmagirl91
09-04-2005, 02:23 AM
I hope everyone is safe in the wake of this tragedy.

Shabazza
09-04-2005, 02:07 PM
Well, wish me good luck. We have some thousands of refugees/survivors coming to Austin in the next hours. I signed up for volunteer duty so I hope it goes well, although I imagine I won't be able to be back here for several weeks. I have to report to the Austin Convention Center tommmorow and imagine that will be quite busy for a while.


Keep you prayers going for all of the good folks who just want to be rescued or restart their destroyed lives.
I wish you all the best luck :yeah:

Clara Bow
09-06-2005, 01:04 AM
Well- I have to say I am proud to be a Texan and an Austinite. And I have never had so much love for the people of New Orleans.

I had my first day of volunteering yesterday for processing at the Convention Center. The individuals from New Orleans who I had the pleasure to meet with were of course exhausted from the event of the past few days, worried, still sort of in shock and also grieving for a variety of things. But they were also very, very kind people who were grateful to be away from the chaos and initial worry, even if they were new uncertainties and worries. And there were so many people volunteering on Sunday that they reassinged me today to work at the donation drop- off station. And during my whole shift it was non-stop cars with donations . I am amazed and really heartened by the outpouring that people have shown.

There are a ton of volunteers now are worried that there will be a drop off in volunteers in the coming weeks (which is a common occurence in natural disasters) so I will be doing more volunteering later on than now.

But all and all, even though there is great sadness in this tradgedy, it is also neat to see poeple really gearing up to help their fellow man. Sorry to be sappy....

Also- kudos to Gov. Perry for ensuring that so many could come to Texas.

the cat
09-06-2005, 08:48 PM
Bless you Clara. :) Good luck with the volunteering.

SwissMister1
09-06-2005, 09:03 PM
I was going to go there next spring, because my sister has a friend down there and I was going to go with her...fortunately her friend is safe and evacuated the area before the hurricane, but I would guess she couldn't go back for quite a while.

Angle Queen
09-08-2005, 01:07 PM
Here's NOAA's website with some official photos taken at 7500ft.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2005/s2495.htm

nermo
09-08-2005, 01:34 PM
There are a ton of volunteers now are worried that there will be a drop off in volunteers in the coming weeks (which is a common occurence in natural disasters) so I will be doing more volunteering later on than now.
posted by Clara bow
:hatoff: :yeah: