best ever (by age) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

best ever (by age)

federer express
08-28-2005, 10:04 PM
was just thinking if anyone in my lifetime has ever performed like agassi at over 30 years of age, and couldn't think of a single player. that then made me think....

best aged under 20 years: becker
20 to 30 years: sampras
30 plus years: agassi

thoughts anyone? for me the biggest question is the best under 20. and for me it was becker or nadal....and i went for boris. he deserves an accolade when you consider the hairstyle he had back in those days! :eek:

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:07 PM
About the same, but replace Becker with Borg for the under-20 category.

federer express
08-28-2005, 10:11 PM
About the same, but replace Becker with Borg for the under-20 category.

i will bow to your superior knowledge here....

adee-gee
08-28-2005, 10:14 PM
If Rafa wins the US Open he deserves the under 20 category. Other than that, can't complain with your chosen ones.

Although Rusedski is making a late surge for the over 30's title :p

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:15 PM
Well, it's just a question of numbers: they both won 2 Slams in their teens, Borg at RG and Becker at Wimbledon, but Borg won 16 titles as a teenager (the most to date) compared to Becker's 12 and won them on all surfaces, something that Becker never managed in his entire career. Neither was no. 1 until some years later.

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:17 PM
If Rafa wins the US Open he deserves the under 20 category. Other than that, can't complain with your chosen ones.

He needs another 5 titles after that before June next year to get the under 20 award. :p

federer express
08-28-2005, 10:17 PM
Well, it's just a question of numbers: they both won 2 Slams in their teens, Borg at RG and Becker at Wimbledon, but Borg won 16 titles as a teenager (the most to date) compared to Becker's 12 and won them on all surfaces, something that Becker never managed in his entire career. Neither was no. 1 until some years later.

like i said.... :worship:

adee-gee
08-28-2005, 10:18 PM
He needs another 5 titles after that before June next year to get the under 20 award. :p

How many slams had Borg won by 20? And which ones?

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:18 PM
Two French, but as I said above, he had also won titles on all surfaces. Interestingly enough, the first title he won after turning 20 was his first Wimbledon.

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:19 PM
like i said.... :worship:

Like I say: go and take a look at my title thread in the Statistics forum, those hours of slogging are for occasions like this. ;)

adee-gee
08-28-2005, 10:23 PM
Two French, but as I said above, he had also won titles on all surfaces. Interestingly enough, the first title he won after turning 20 was his first Wimbledon.

Surely if Rafa wins the US he'd have a legitamite claim, even if he hadn't won as many titles. Maybe he'll win the Aussie as well to put it beyond all doubt ;)

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:28 PM
Yes, it'd be touch and go. I think he stands a good chance of reaching 16 titles by his 20th birthday, even if he doesn't win another Slam until next year's RG (which would be the day after, I think). One thing's for sure, both will be remembered as incredibly dominant claycourt players, although Nadal has a long way to go to match Borg's achievements in Paris.

federer express
08-28-2005, 10:29 PM
Surely if Rafa wins the US he'd have a legitamite claim, even if he hadn't won as many titles. Maybe he'll win the Aussie as well to put it beyond all doubt ;)

now that my brain is out of reverse and back in neutral where it spends most days, you cannot dispute borg. not only do the numbers support him but the achievement of winning both the french and wimbledon (which sampras, mcenroe, lendl, becker, edberg and others never managed) by such a young age makes him a clear winner.

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:29 PM
Yes, but he wasn't a teenager when he won Wimbledon.

federer express
08-28-2005, 10:31 PM
Yes, but he wasn't a teenager when he won Wimbledon.

true...he just missed out on that. at the other end of the scale though, maybe i was premature in declaring agassi the winner. did i overlook tati rascon??

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 10:33 PM
Not to mention the sanguine one.

adee-gee
08-28-2005, 10:38 PM
I think Goran deserves a mention in the 30+ just for his remarkable win at Wimby when he looked like the worst player in the world the week before at Queens when he lost to the karate kid :)

federer express
08-28-2005, 10:48 PM
Not to mention the sanguine one.

my brain has slipped back into reverse again. that a reference to rascon looking like a blood-thirsty pirate/dracula? or a reference to my much publicised admiration for davide's game?

federer express
08-28-2005, 10:49 PM
I think Goran deserves a mention in the 30+ just for his remarkable win at Wimby when he looked like the worst player in the world the week before at Queens when he lost to the karate kid :)

possibly the most surprising achievement by an over 30 in the mens game...

HailToTheThief
08-28-2005, 11:14 PM
best aged under 20 years: becker


What about Wilander? Born in 1964:
SINGLES CAREER TITLES (33): 1982--Barcelona, Bastad, Geneva, Roland Garros; 1983--Aix-En-Provence, Australian Open, Barcelona, Bastad, Cincinnati, Geneva, Lisbon, Monte Carlo, Stockholm; 1984--Australian Open, Barcelona, Cincinnati; 1985--Bastad, Boston, Roland Garros; 1986--Brussels, Cincinnati; 1987--Boston, Brussels, Indianapolis, Monte Carlo, Rome; 1988--Australian Open, Cincinnati, Key Biscayne, Palermo, Roland Garros, US Open; 1990--Itaparica FINALIST (26): 1981--Bangkok; 1982--Basel, Brussels, Stockholm; 1983--Guaruja, Roland Garros; 1984--Milan, Monte Carlo, Stockholm; 1985--Australian Open, Barcelona, Brussels, Cincinnati, Geneva, Monte Carlo, Tokyo Indoor; 1986--Bastad, Boca West, Stockholm; 1987--Barcelona, Masters, Roland Garros, US Open; 1989--Boston; 1990--Lyon; 1996--Pinehurst

DOUBLES CAREER TITLES (7): 1994--Prague, Santiago; 1986--Wimbledon; 1985--Rome, Philadelphia; 1984--Geneva; 1983--Bastad FINALIST (11): 1987--Boston, Indianapolis; 1986--Monte Carlo, US Open; 1985--Cincinnati, Masters; 1984--Monte Carlo, Australian Open; 1983--Geneva, Brussels; 1982--Bastad

In my opinion, we should at least mention him... :hatoff:

federer express
08-28-2005, 11:16 PM
What about Wilander? Born in 1964:
SINGLES CAREER TITLES (33): 1982--Barcelona, Bastad, Geneva, Roland Garros; 1983--Aix-En-Provence, Australian Open, Barcelona, Bastad, Cincinnati, Geneva, Lisbon, Monte Carlo, Stockholm; 1984--Australian Open, Barcelona, Cincinnati; 1985--Bastad, Boston, Roland Garros; 1986--Brussels, Cincinnati; 1987--Boston, Brussels, Indianapolis, Monte Carlo, Rome; 1988--Australian Open, Cincinnati, Key Biscayne, Palermo, Roland Garros, US Open; 1990--Itaparica FINALIST (26): 1981--Bangkok; 1982--Basel, Brussels, Stockholm; 1983--Guaruja, Roland Garros; 1984--Milan, Monte Carlo, Stockholm; 1985--Australian Open, Barcelona, Brussels, Cincinnati, Geneva, Monte Carlo, Tokyo Indoor; 1986--Bastad, Boca West, Stockholm; 1987--Barcelona, Masters, Roland Garros, US Open; 1989--Boston; 1990--Lyon; 1996--Pinehurst

DOUBLES CAREER TITLES (7): 1994--Prague, Santiago; 1986--Wimbledon; 1985--Rome, Philadelphia; 1984--Geneva; 1983--Bastad FINALIST (11): 1987--Boston, Indianapolis; 1986--Monte Carlo, US Open; 1985--Cincinnati, Masters; 1984--Monte Carlo, Australian Open; 1983--Geneva, Brussels; 1982--Bastad

In my opinion, we should at least mention him... :hatoff:

gotta be a good shout :yeah: ...i didn't get to see him play as a teenager but the record is impressive

Sjengster
08-28-2005, 11:18 PM
Of course the AO was held at the end of the year in the mid-80s, before changing back to the start of the year in 1987. So Wilander won 2 Slams as a teenager, same as Borg and Becker, and 13 titles overall. Plus he actually won on all surfaces in the same year, 1983, something neither of the others managed.

federer express
08-28-2005, 11:20 PM
Of course the AO was held at the end of the year in the mid-80s, before changing back to the start of the year in 1987. So Wilander won 2 Slams as a teenager, same as Borg and Becker, and 13 titles overall. Plus he actually won on all surfaces in the same year, 1983, something neither of the others managed.

if this is all at your fingertips.... :eek:

federer express
08-28-2005, 11:30 PM
but to defend my choice of becker... the powerful, athletic, vigorous, determined and fearless nature of his play at that age were what i found so impressive. all traits that nadal now displays too...

MisterQ
08-29-2005, 03:15 AM
I think Agassi is worthy of the distinction of best over 30-- what he has accomplished in this physically demanding tennis era in the past five years is amazing.

However, there are a few others from previous decades who deserve a mention:

30-OVER SINGLES WINNERS -- Here are the players with the most titles 30-over in the Open Era (since 1968):
1. Rod Laver, 44
2. Ken Rosewall, 29
3. Arthur Ashe, 20
4. Andre Agassi, 16
5. Jimmy Connors, 15

Rosewall, if I remember correctly, made the Wimbledon final at age 39 and continued winning titles into his 40s. remarkable :worship:

Action Jackson
08-29-2005, 12:57 PM
Borg then Wilander the 2 best teenage players overall, Becker might have just had a more aesthetically pleasing game.

tennisvideos
08-29-2005, 01:28 PM
I think Agassi is worthy of the distinction of best over 30-- what he has accomplished in this physically demanding tennis era in the past five years is amazing.

However, there are a few others from previous decades who deserve a mention:

30-OVER SINGLES WINNERS -- Here are the players with the most titles 30-over in the Open Era (since 1968):
1. Rod Laver, 44
2. Ken Rosewall, 29
3. Arthur Ashe, 20
4. Andre Agassi, 16
5. Jimmy Connors, 15

Rosewall, if I remember correctly, made the Wimbledon final at age 39 and continued winning titles into his 40s. remarkable :worship:

I think Rosewall probably is possibly the most deserving of the best over 30yo in the history of the game. Let's forget that he won the French, US and Aussie titles as a youngster in the early 1950s and was runner up twice at Wimbledon before he turned pro in 1957. Then he couldn't play the Slams until Tennis went Open in 1968.

Then in 1968 he won the French Open as a 34yo, won the USO in 1970 as a 36yo, the Aussie Opens in 71 & 72 at 36 and 37 years of age. And he was runner up at Wimbledon again in 1970 and 74 as a 35 and 39yo!!!!!

He was still world ranked #2 in 1970, #3 in 1971 and #2 in 1972 (as a 38yo!!!). Then as a 41yo in 75 he was ranked #5!! He was still ranked in top 15 as a 43yo in 1977 when he still won 2 tournaments.

He also won the WCT Championships in 1971 and 1972 (which were basically equivilent of the End of Year Champs) as 36/37yo.

Prior to 1968, Rosewall was not allowed to play the Slams (because he was a Professional player), but he was one of the top 2 pros in the world, along with Rod Laver - between them they virtually dominated the Pro ranks in the 1960s winning just about all the top 3 tournaments (equivilent of the Slams) between them.

Another great player in his 30s was Laver of course, who won the Grand Slam as a 31yo, but I don't think his career comes as close to Rosewall when you talk about what they did at an advanced age eg in their late 30s. Laver was just about finished as a 34yo but Rosewall kept on winning and was a world force until his early 40s.

Gonzales was another great player in his 30s also, but most people know little about him as he virtually missed the tour as his best years were on the Pro circuit where he dominated in the 50s but was a still a contender during the 60s.

TheMightyFed
08-29-2005, 03:46 PM
I think Agassi is worthy of the distinction of best over 30-- what he has accomplished in this physically demanding tennis era in the past five years is amazing.

However, there are a few others from previous decades who deserve a mention:

30-OVER SINGLES WINNERS -- Here are the players with the most titles 30-over in the Open Era (since 1968):
1. Rod Laver, 44
2. Ken Rosewall, 29
3. Arthur Ashe, 20
4. Andre Agassi, 16
5. Jimmy Connors, 15

Rosewall, if I remember correctly, made the Wimbledon final at age 39 and continued winning titles into his 40s. remarkable :worship:
I think Laver won 9 tournies after turning 30 in 1968.
Rosewall played his last professionnal tourney just before turning 46, and he even won a match !

curlgirl3
08-29-2005, 04:10 PM
rAFA has got the best butt ever!!!!!!!!

TheMightyFed
08-29-2005, 04:13 PM
rAFA has got the best butt ever!!!!!!!!
If you start like that with your second post, we're looking forward to read you, really ! :rolleyes:

curlgirl3
08-29-2005, 04:15 PM
REALLY COOOOOOOOWWWWWWLLLLL!!!!!

the cat
08-29-2005, 04:36 PM
The best men's tennis player of all time by age 24 was Bjorn Borg. :D Borg had won an incredible 10 of his 11 grand slam singles titles by the age of 24. And Borg was one of the best teenage men's tennis players ever as well. :)

oneandonlyhsn
08-29-2005, 08:03 PM
rAFA has got the best butt ever!!!!!!!!

WTA is the other way http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/sign/sign0151.gif

Purple Rainbow
08-29-2005, 08:20 PM
Isn't the category 20-30 years old a bit big? This is pretty much the life span of your average tennis player. A distinction between 20-25 and 26-30 would also be interesting, whereby Borg would easily rule the 20-25 category. I am not too sure about the 26-30 category, though.

thrust
08-29-2005, 08:59 PM
I agree that Rosewall has the most impressive record of any player past thirty. In 1968, the first year of open tennis, he was past 33. I think he won 32 singles titles, 1 USO, 1 FO, 2 AO, and was twice runner up at Wimbledon. That is much better than most players entire carrer^s.

thrust
08-29-2005, 09:02 PM
Rosewall also won the first Open tournament which was like a Major, as all the top pros and amateurs played- the British hard court Championships.