Oh no!!!Another disgusting Federer-Hewitt or Roddick final:((( [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Oh no!!!Another disgusting Federer-Hewitt or Roddick final:(((

konyalikartal
08-20-2005, 08:42 PM
God damn it!!!I really want Federer to lose this Ginepri match in order to have an interesting TMS Cincy final but unfortunately somehow he wins again. Luck is always at Federer's side when he is playing bad. For the organizers I have an offer. Please cancel the final, make the ceremony and give the Cup to Federer:)))

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 08:47 PM
We'll see.

If Federer were to either a) play brilliantly tomorrow or b) play another terrible match but somehow get through, I wonder how the crowds would react to his achievement. They might recognise it as a triumph of mental strength, but they certainly wouldn't be applauding him for his tennis this week.

TheBoiledEgg
08-20-2005, 08:49 PM
This semi is gonna be worth watching

"I dont wanna win"
"Neither do i"
"I dont wanna get my ass kicked in front of the world again"
"me either"

:rolls:

both thinking "lets get into his room and kidnap him" :aplot:

federer express
08-20-2005, 08:50 PM
If Federer were to either a) play brilliantly tomorrow or b) play another terrible match but somehow get through, I wonder how the crowds would react to his achievement. They might recognise it as a triumph of mental strength, but they certainly wouldn't be applauding him for his tennis this week.

i dont think he or anyone else should care how the crowd reacts. he doesn't have to prove he can play good tennis. he is well and truly past that point. so if he wins the tournament people should just realise it means that he can win top level tournaments when playing at his worst and respect him for that. and maybe laugh at hewitt or roddick for losing to him again.

if he wins the tournament that is....

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 08:50 PM
I seriously doubt that's the kind of thought process running through their minds. Both of them must be itching to get another chance at him, especially Roddick. If he gets through, it'll be only his second ever match with Federer on American soil.

oneandonlyhsn
08-20-2005, 08:51 PM
God damn it!!!I really want Federer to lose this Ginepri match in order to have an interesting TMS Cincy final but unfortunately somehow he wins again. Luck is always at Federer's side when he is playing bad. For the organizers I have an offer. Please cancel the final, make the ceremony and give the Cup to Federer:)))


Funny how nobody complains Rafa winning all these tournies, and he has played the most tournies than any player out there

I'd take the latter, give him the cup already because his tennis has been :tape:

GO Fed GO :banana:

1sun
08-20-2005, 08:54 PM
and maybe laugh at hewitt or roddick for losing to him again.


:rolls:

RodLo
08-20-2005, 08:55 PM
Oh boy. :rolleyes:

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 08:55 PM
i dont think he or anyone else should care how the crowd reacts. he doesn't have to prove he can play good tennis. he is well and truly past that point. so if he wins the tournament people should just realise it means that he can win top level tournaments when playing at his worst and respect him for that. and maybe laugh at hewitt or roddick for losing to him again.

if he wins the tournament that is....

I'm not suggesting he should care, but the atmosphere in his matches has been as flat as a pancake. Granted, Federer is not someone who brings people to their feet most of the time anyway and I have no problem with that, but the lethargy of his play has been reflected in the crowds. After all, this is one event where people have not seen Federer's best in recent years; this is the first time he's actually gone deep into the draw, and some of the crowd must be wondering what on earth all the fuss is about him.

Just a thought, this doesn't make me a Fed HATA and I still hope he can win tomorrow, of course. But it isn't every week that you can get to the final of a TMS event without having to play a single Top 30 player.

1sun
08-20-2005, 08:56 PM
This semi is gonna be worth watching

"I dont wanna win"
"Neither do i"
"I dont wanna get my ass kicked in front of the world again"
"me either"

:rolls:

both thinking "lets get into his room and kidnap him" :aplot:
:haha:

federer express
08-20-2005, 08:56 PM
I'm not suggesting he should care, but the atmosphere in his matches has been as flat as a pancake. Granted, Federer is not someone who brings people to their feet most of the time anyway and I have no problem with that, but the lethargy of his play has been reflected in the crowds.


the atmosphere has been crap all week for all the day matches

oneandonlyhsn
08-20-2005, 08:58 PM
THE HYPOCRISY ON MTF :lol:

victory1
08-20-2005, 08:58 PM
This semi is gonna be worth watching

"I dont wanna win"
"Neither do i"
"I dont wanna get my ass kicked in front of the world again"
"me either"

:rolls:

both thinking "lets get into his room and kidnap him" :aplot:
:D :D

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 08:59 PM
the atmosphere has been crap all week for all the day matches

True, true. The sparse turnout is definitely a cause for concern, in fact it may be what's causing the poor level of play, rather than vice versa. Not necessarily in Federer's case, I think that's just poor form, but some of the other day matches have been a little tedious too.

I looked it up and realised, before anyone complains, that Rochus is in the Top 30. At number 29. But still, of all the Top 30 players you could draw...

1sun
08-20-2005, 08:59 PM
I'm not suggesting he should care, but the atmosphere in his matches has been as flat as a pancake. Granted, Federer is not someone who brings people to their feet most of the time anyway and I have no problem with that, but the lethargy of his play has been reflected in the crowds. After all, this is one event where people have not seen Federer's best in recent years; this is the first time he's actually gone deep into the draw, and some of the crowd must be wondering what on earth all the fuss is about him.

Just a thought, this doesn't make me a Fed HATA and I still hope he can win tomorrow, of course. But it isn't every week that you can get to the final of a TMS event without having to play a single Top 30 player.
first of all. roger brings people to their feet through his tennis
second of all, their was a great atmosphere in the federer/blake match, his day ones have been flat just like all the other day matchs. the crowd only get into night matchs

federer express
08-20-2005, 09:01 PM
True, true. The sparse turnout is definitely a cause for concern, in fact it may be what's causing the poor level of play, rather than vice versa. Not necessarily in Federer's case, I think that's just poor form, but some of the other day matches have been a little tedious too.

I looked it up and realised, before anyone complains, that Rochus is in the Top 30. At number 29. But still, of all the Top 30 players you could draw...

rochus is a great player :)

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:02 PM
The first point is redundant considering the level he's playing at right now. When he's at his best he can bring me to my feet, let alone a crowd watching in person, but there's been no evidence of it so far.

The atmosphere was decent in the Blake match, it would have gotten better had Blake taken his chances and pushed it into a third. The Rochus match was at night and the crowds were hardly involved in that, but I'm not really criticising them or the players - just a bad match-up for Rochus where Federer's serve was dominant.

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:04 PM
rochus is a great player :)

Hey, after last year's US Open, no-one should ever disrespect Ollie again. But for Federer, I mean, it had to be one of his best ever draws.

federer express
08-20-2005, 09:05 PM
Hey, after last year's US Open, no-one should ever disrespect Ollie again. But for Federer, I mean, it had to be one of his best ever draws.

yeah maybe. but on hard courts aside from safin and nadal, and maybe gonzalez on a great day, how many difficult draws are there for federer

nermo
08-20-2005, 09:06 PM
God damn it!!!I really want Federer to lose this Ginepri match in order to have an interesting TMS Cincy final but unfortunately somehow he wins again. Luck is always at Federer's side when he is playing bad. For the organizers I have an offer. Please cancel the final, make the ceremony and give the Cup to Federer))posted by konyalik.

what about those crowds buying tickets for the match?? may be ,not all of them are getting that bored.. :cool:

This semi is gonna be worth watching
"I dont wanna win"
"Neither do i"
"I dont wanna get my ass kicked in front of the world again"
"me either"
both thinking "lets get into his room and kidnap him posted by The boiled egg :D

well, seriously speaking, if ( and this is a big IF)Federer wins with this level,then, yes, mental strength 'll be a factor..from his side and non mental strength from whoever gonna play with him.(obviously he's not in form ,so his opponent might have a chance, ).
the guy doesn't have to prove he plays well,true.. but he should play well, cuz that's what is expected from him..to win and to make it beautifully..
yet, Federer has had a bad record for Cinncy, so all in all, this is a good step ..

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:09 PM
yeah maybe. but on hard courts aside from safin and nadal, and maybe gonzalez on a great day, how many difficult draws are there for federer

At peak form, very few, but in this form a number of Top 30 opponents could have troubled him or indeed, beaten him. Think of how poor Federer's returns have been this week and then think of all the great servers like Lopez, Ancic, Stepanek et al whom he could have drawn in the first few rounds.

federer express
08-20-2005, 09:10 PM
At peak form, very few, but in this form a number of Top 30 opponents could have troubled him or indeed, beaten him. Think of how poor Federer's returns have been this week and then think of all the great servers like Lopez, Ancic, Stepanek et al whom he could have drawn in the first few rounds.

stepanek...mmmm not sure he could have beaten him. and ancic and lopez can always find a way to lose. but i take your point

DanEd
08-20-2005, 09:10 PM
:zzz:

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:12 PM
Hey, after last year's US Open, no-one should ever disrespect Ollie again. But for Federer, I mean, it had to be one of his best ever draws.
iinitaly the draw was hard. blake first round(no joke), kiefer second round( troubles roger, vgood player) lujubic third round( dropped early and we know he is a vgood player who has nearly beaten roger early this year), quarters coria(dropped early, top tenner), semis safin( nuff said).
just like nadal, seeds dropped out of his path. but will have roddick or hewit in the finals which will prove more of a challenage than agassi.

Aleksa's Laydee
08-20-2005, 09:14 PM
Finals are getting sooooooooo boring (when they have these players in them almost allllll the time) :zzz:

bad gambler
08-20-2005, 09:14 PM
blame nadal and safin

uNIVERSE mAN
08-20-2005, 09:16 PM
True, true. The sparse turnout is definitely a cause for concern, in fact it may be what's causing the poor level of play, rather than vice versa. Not necessarily in Federer's case, I think that's just poor form, but some of the other day matches have been a little tedious too.

I looked it up and realised, before anyone complains, that Rochus is in the Top 30. At number 29. But still, of all the Top 30 players you could draw...

why are you complaining about who he's playing? everyone plays who's in front of them, that's the stupidest thing to say.

uNIVERSE mAN
08-20-2005, 09:18 PM
iinitaly the draw was hard. blake first round(no joke), kiefer second round( troubles roger, vgood player) lujubic third round( dropped early and we know he is a vgood player who has nearly beaten roger early this year), quarters coria(dropped early, top tenner), semis safin( nuff said).
just like nadal, seeds dropped out of his path. but will have roddick or hewit in the finals which will prove more of a challenage than agassi.

he's stuffed ljubo 4 times this year, what more do you want? when the hell do you folks ever get the point when the same thing happens again and again. Coria can't even win against Fed on clay, what the hell's he going to do hardcourt. And Oaf? I can't believe he won three in a row, that's a miracle.

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:25 PM
he's stuffed ljubo 4 times this year, what more do you want? when the hell do you folks ever get the point when the same thing happens again and again. Coria can't even win against Fed on clay, what the hell's he going to do hardcourt. And Oaf? I can't believe he won three in a row, that's a miracle.
im not saying federes draw was easy, just sum dude is saying it was so im just pointing out that initaly the draw was hard and its not rogers fault that the seeds dropped

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:27 PM
by the way, is the final a best of 3 or 5?

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:28 PM
why are you complaining about who he's playing? everyone plays who's in front of them, that's the stupidest thing to say.

I'm not complaining, in case you hadn't noticed I'm actually supporting Federer. That doesn't mean I can't recognise that he's had a fortunate draw, with opponents who didn't seem to believe they could beat him even when he was there for the taking (see Kiefer, Acasuso to a certain extent and Ginepri today).

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:29 PM
im not saying federes draw was easy, just sum dude is saying it was so im just pointing out that initaly the draw was hard and its not rogers fault that the seeds dropped

When I said "one of his best draws", I was referring specifically to Rochus, ie he was the best Top 30 player Federer could have drawn. About all his opponents, I suppose I mean his actual draw rather than his hypothetical one at the start of the tournament.

ExpectedWinner
08-20-2005, 09:34 PM
I'm not complaining, in case you hadn't noticed I'm actually supporting Federer. That doesn't mean I can't recognise that he's had a fortunate draw, with opponents who didn't seem to believe they could beat him even when he was there for the taking (see Kiefer, Acasuso to a certain extent and Ginepri today).

When you take out Roddick and Safin (Ginepri) on hc, you should believe.

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:35 PM
When I said "one of his best draws", I was referring specifically to Rochus, ie he was the best Top 30 player Federer could have drawn. About all his opponents, I suppose I mean his actual draw rather than his hypothetical one at the start of the tournament.
but he was drawn a hard draw and was draw rochus in the third round who is actualy a good player.
jose lost in straight ssets so how you can say his mind stoped him from beating roger is beyond me. again its not rogers fault if players dont believ they can beat and kiefer very much believes he can beat roger( read his interview)
if you support roger then just be happy hes in the final and quit complaining about this so called easy draw.

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:36 PM
Indeed you should, but the rain delay probably gave him time to think about what he was close to achieving.

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:38 PM
Indeed you should, but the rain delay probably gave him time to think about what he was close to achieving.
lol. i was waiting for you to say that.

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:40 PM
but he was drawn a hard draw and was draw rochus in the third round who is actualy a good player.
jose lost in straight ssets so how you can say his mind stoped him from beating roger is beyond me. again its not rogers fault if players dont believ they can beat and kiefer very much believes he can beat roger( read his interview)
if you support roger then just be happy hes in the final and quit complaining about this so called easy draw.

Of course Rochus is a good player but he's not a tough match-up for Federer, with his reach on returns he can't threaten Federer's serve at all.

Acasuso had a chance to make the match competitive, and dumped his serve early in the second set with four routine shots into the net. Federer did absolutely nothing except get the ball back in play. And the day I take Kiefer's word on anything... well, I prefer to judge from how he actually played on the court, and the lack of belief was evident there.

I am NOT complaining. I am observing. There is a difference; just because I can be critical of Federer and accept that he has luck from time to time, doesn't make me any less of a fan.

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:41 PM
lol. i was waiting for you to say that.

Yes, bitter Ginepri fan talking here. :confused:

Blaze
08-20-2005, 09:42 PM
We should all be thankful this series is exciting with almost all the top guys playing. Whether it is Hewitt or Roddick am sure it would get a decent ratings.

Unlike in WTA at any point in time you can win a tournament without playing a single match. Players are dropping like in the beach scene in "Saving Private Ryan".

NYCtennisfan
08-20-2005, 09:43 PM
Federer has not played well all week and looked really tired after basically playing in a sauna today. It would not surprise me one bit if Hewitt or Roddick beats him tommorrow. It also wouldn't surprise me if Fed turns it on and wipes either one off of the court.

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:44 PM
Of course Rochus is a good player but he's not a tough match-up for Federer, with his reach on returns he can't threaten Federer's serve at all.

Acasuso had a chance to make the match competitive, and dumped his serve early in the second set with four routine shots into the net. Federer did absolutely nothing except get the ball back in play. And the day I take Kiefer's word on anything... well, I prefer to judge from how he actually played on the court, and the lack of belief was evident there.

I am NOT complaining. I am observing. There is a difference; just because I can be critical of Federer and accept that he has luck from time to time, doesn't make me any less of a fan.
i meant to say that he was drawn lujubic in the third round. roger was a point away from 4 love. doesnt matter anyway because roger got another break. he was far from beating roger(jose) so mental wouldnt have come into it

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:46 PM
Yes, bitter Ginepri fan talking here. :confused:
no need to be bitter, he lost but gave a match.

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:47 PM
Federer has not played well all week and looked really tired after basically playing in a sauna today. It would not surprise me one bit if Hewitt or Roddick beats him tommorrow. It also wouldn't surprise me if Fed turns it on and wipes either one off of the court.
agreed. the final is no gimmi for roger

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:50 PM
Ljubicic suffered from a back injury during his loss to Santoro, at least according to RDucky. He's not been in good form of late at all. Overall, the hypothetical draw was tough, but the actual opponents he ended up facing weren't, compared to those he might have faced. Now people are going to tell me to stop whining because Federer can't choose who he plays, and that's exactly my point: it's a matter of luck. That's not to deny that Federer's mental strength has played a part in getting him through these matches.

I think mentality did come into it with Chucho, yes he was far from beating Federer but there was no need for him to lose serve so easily accept for the fact that he had given up already and didn't think he could do it. This lack of fight has been his problem in matches elsewhere, I believe, the comeback against Roddick at RG was hopefully a career-changing win.

NYCtennisfan
08-20-2005, 09:50 PM
It's funny how Federer is now in the finals and we see the posts sprout up about boring finals, give the trophy to Roger, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

Fed vs. Hewitt/Roddick involves the 3 best hard courters out there with Safin and Nadal right behind.

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:51 PM
no need to be bitter, he lost but gave a match.

Maybe I should have made my sarcasm a little clearer. ;) I am certainly not a Ginepri fan, nor have I been an ardent supporter of anyone Federer has faced this week, except perhaps Acasuso.

NYCtennisfan
08-20-2005, 09:52 PM
Ljubicic suffered from a back injury during his loss to Santoro, at least according to RDucky. He's not been in good form of late at all. Overall, the hypothetical draw was tough, but the actual opponents he ended up facing weren't, compared to those he might have faced. Now people are going to tell me to stop whining because Federer can't choose who he plays, and that's exactly my point: it's a matter of luck. That's not to deny that Federer's mental strength has played a part in getting him through these matches.

I think mentality did come into it with Chucho, yes he was far from beating Federer but there was no need for him to lose serve so easily accept for the fact that he had given up already and didn't think he could do it. This lack of fight has been his problem in matches elsewhere, I believe, the comeback against Roddick at RG was hopefully a career-changing win.

Frankly, even with his "poor" play, Federer would've been in the final anyway. A really on-his-game Safin or Agassi might've beaten him but other than them, it doesn't really matter who he plays.

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 09:53 PM
It's funny how Federer is now in the finals and we see the posts sprout up about boring finals, give the trophy to Roger, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.....

Fed vs. Hewitt/Roddick involves the 3 best hard courters out there with Safin and Nadal right behind.

I think that has less to do with their dislike of the three players, and more to do with Federer's 13-0 record against Hewitt and Roddick since that 2003 DC match.

1sun
08-20-2005, 09:57 PM
Maybe I should have made my sarcasm a little clearer. ;) I am certainly not a Ginepri fan, nor have I been an ardent supporter of anyone Federer has faced this week, except perhaps Acasuso.
ok but the rain delay wasnt a factor, it was about 5 minutes, i mean change overs are longer

Sjengster
08-20-2005, 10:02 PM
I see. I have to admit before I go any further, I haven't actually seen the match yet, I taped it - but I did read the scoring thread in the Federer forum, and have a pretty good idea how he played and how, ultimately, Ginepri played when it came down to the crunch. All right, so the thought of beating Federer and making a Masters final was what hindered him mentally, not the rain delay.

federer express
08-20-2005, 10:03 PM
I see. I have to admit before I go any further, I haven't actually seen the match yet, I taped it - but I did read the scoring thread in the Federer forum, and have a pretty good idea how he played and how, ultimately, Ginepri played when it came down to the crunch. All right, so the thought of beating Federer and making a Masters final was what hindered him mentally, not the rain delay.

not really. federer just strung a few points together which was all he needed to do in the first set as well. ginepri is not in the same league and that in the end is what counted

NYCtennisfan
08-20-2005, 10:03 PM
I think that has less to do with their dislike of the three players, and more to do with Federer's 13-0 record against Hewitt and Roddick since that 2003 DC match.

Very true.

ok but the rain delay wasnt a factor, it was about 5 minutes, i mean change overs are longer

If anything, it was a disadvantage to Federer because he had to come out and serve after being off of the court for 5-6 minutes. I thought he was going to get broken right there but he held at love. Ginepri was leading 40-15 in his service game, made a few mistakes, Roger stopped duming the returns into the net and made Ginepri play, and there you go...a break. It was bound to happen sooner or later.

NYCtennisfan
08-20-2005, 10:06 PM
I see. I have to admit before I go any further, I haven't actually seen the match yet, I taped it - but I did read the scoring thread in the Federer forum, and have a pretty good idea how he played and how, ultimately, Ginepri played when it came down to the crunch. All right, so the thought of beating Federer and making a Masters final was what hindered him mentally, not the rain delay.

I don't think it was anything. Ginepri looked calm and played calmly. When it mattered, Federer put returns in play instead of dumping them into the net. That was the difference. When Federer started playing just a little bit better, not making errors, Ginepri had a harder time ending the points and thus some erros and also some very good shotmaking from Federer. It wasn't the rain delay, it wasn't Ginepri's mental ability, it wasn't anything--it was that Federer just started playing a little bit better and his class showed in the final result.

1sun
08-20-2005, 10:12 PM
I see. I have to admit before I go any further, I haven't actually seen the match yet, I taped it - but I did read the scoring thread in the Federer forum, and have a pretty good idea how he played and how, ultimately, Ginepri played when it came down to the crunch. All right, so the thought of beating Federer and making a Masters final was what hindered him mentally, not the rain delay.
to be honest federer was closer to winning that second set than robby was and he did. so really robby was still quite abit away from winning the match and ended up losing. roger was too solid on his seve, played one poor game in the first set, 2 unforced errors, a lucky lob(against him) and one great shot from robby. that was the only time he had break point on rogers serve and took it so its not as if he choked.
i mean if he had matchpoints or breaks points to serve for the match and choked then i could understand your point that robbies mind stopped him from winning but he didnt and couldnt have done much more. played good but just not good enough, roger let him in the match but didnt give him the opportunity to win it.

NYCtennisfan
08-20-2005, 10:13 PM
i mean if he had matchpoints or breaks points to serve for the match and choked then i could understand your point that robbies mind stopped him from winning but he didnt and couldnt have done much more. played good but just not good enough, roger let him in the match but didnt give him the opportunity to win it.


Exactly.

1sun
08-20-2005, 10:14 PM
Very true.



If anything, it was a disadvantage to Federer because he had to come out and serve after being off of the court for 5-6 minutes. I thought he was going to get broken right there but he held at love. Ginepri was leading 40-15 in his service game, made a few mistakes, Roger stopped duming the returns into the net and made Ginepri play, and there you go...a break. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
he was at 40-15 to take it to a tiebreak but roger came up with 2 forehand winners and the robbie did the rest for him

1sun
08-20-2005, 10:16 PM
Very true.



If anything, it was a disadvantage to Federer because he had to come out and serve after being off of the court for 5-6 minutes. I thought he was going to get broken right there but he held at love. Ginepri was leading 40-15 in his service game, made a few mistakes, Roger stopped duming the returns into the net and made Ginepri play, and there you go...a break. It was bound to happen sooner or later.
and i agree the rain delay, if anything was a disadvantage to roger.
robby has nothing to dwell on from that match.

uNIVERSE mAN
08-20-2005, 10:33 PM
Ginepri's break had two points of absurd freakish luck.

mitalidas
08-20-2005, 10:35 PM
ginepri played very well and Roger played so far below his usual standard. Instead of steadily improving over the week, he has been in somewhat erratic form --picking it up for the rochus match, going a notch down for the chucho, and quite a notch down today
REALLY needs to pick it up tomorrow. GO ROJAH!

YoursTruly
08-21-2005, 03:11 AM
This is a good match-up, although not like a top showdown anymore because that would be a Federer-Nadal match-up. It's also going to be good not for the battle but it's going to be another lesson from Professor Federer teaching Andy a lesson. Great weekend for tennis, Federer-Roddick match-up/lesson and the all-Belgian final at the Canadian Open with Clijsters and Henin Hardenne. Great stuff!

RogiFan88
08-21-2005, 03:49 AM
so was Rogi playing like JuJu was tonight? I didn't see Rogi's match either...

usually when a player plays so badly all week and struggles, dropping sets and not really improving their level, that player usually does not win the tournament... it depends on how WELL Pandy was playing -- good enough to beat Rogi?

we shall see tomorrow -- is the final really at 12.30pm??? CBS??

nobama
08-21-2005, 04:06 AM
so was Rogi playing like JuJu was tonight? I didn't see Rogi's match either...

usually when a player plays so badly all week and struggles, dropping sets and not really improving their level, that player usually does not win the tournament... it depends on how WELL Pandy was playing -- good enough to beat Rogi?

we shall see tomorrow -- is the final really at 12.30pm??? CBS??I didn't see Toronto last year but from what I've heard Rog played like shit all the way throug the semis and then somehow stepped it up and found a way to beat Andy in the final. So anything is possible.

wcr
08-21-2005, 04:09 AM
I can't remember the exact scores but I noticed something about Ginepri during the two games (2nd and 3rd set) where Roger broke him.

On two critical points, Ginepri took his eye off the ball and moved his head before finishing the shots which were both UFEs.

He'd played so beautifully up until those shots in the 2nd/3rd set. For technical reasons, and something that he alone could control, he gave away those points and the match with them. Talk about a big NO NO.

Did anyone else here see it? And, if so, what do you think happened? Was it a choke? It seemed that way to me.

For a champion like Federer, you expect those points and you wait and watch for them to happen. Unfortunately for Ginepri, a player like Federer isn't going to let those opportunities slip away.

nobama
08-21-2005, 04:16 AM
I only saw the first set (which was ugly enough), but the stats don't look that bad - though they don't show winners/UE's. Roger only had one break point against him. And his first serve %, points won on first were higher than Andy's - and the second serve % was the same - 67%. So just looking at the stats you wouldn't think Roger played such a horrible match, but from some of the posts here it sounds like he did.

http://home.mindspring.com/~jsnash/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/rf_stats.jpg

Fedex
08-21-2005, 04:27 AM
I didn't see Toronto last year but from what I've heard Rog played like shit all the way throug the semis and then somehow stepped it up and found a way to beat Andy in the final. So anything is possible.
True Federer did not play great going into the finals, but he stepped it up a few levels against Roddick. I have no idea how Federer is going to play tomorrow, it certainly seems like he is vulnerable in this match; he will definitely need to play more consistent tennis tomorrow; he was far too erratic against Ginepri.

wcr
08-21-2005, 04:32 AM
Forget the stats, not indepth enough for the Ginepri UFEs I think worth examining. Those UFEs cost him two games, two sets and the match. Those particular types of UFEs can define the very character of a player and their true potential.

The other thing about Ginepri is that as solid as he was, he doesn't really have any weapons per se. No stand out shots, or at least any that I saw against Federer.

nobama
08-21-2005, 04:34 AM
True Federer did not play great going into the finals, but he stepped it up a few levels against Roddick. I have no idea how Federer is going to play tomorrow, it certainly seems like he is vulnerable in this match; he will definitely need to play more consistent tennis tomorrow; he was far too erratic against Ginepri.Still, he only had the one break point against him. His serving % looked decent (better than Roddic or Hewitt). I don't think anyone has consistently played really well this tournament, so anything could happen in the finals. But for me, even if it was ugly tennis along the way, Roger's still in the finals of another tournament, he still has a shot at another title. Somehow he finds a way to pull through even when he's not at his best.

One thing PMac mentioned today (and I was kind of surprised he'd admit this) is how Sampras didn't always take these smaller tournaments seriously and didn't really care one way or the other, whereas Roger takes all of these tournaments seriously and if he's playing he's playing to win.

DanEd
08-21-2005, 04:36 AM
remember toronto las year. fed was struggling till the final then he played great tennis to defeat roddick again

wcr
08-21-2005, 04:39 AM
remember toronto las year. fed was struggling till the final then he played great tennis to defeat roddick again

And Toronto was his third title in 4 weeks (Wimbldeon, Gstaad, Toronto) on three different surfaces. His struggle in the early rounds in Toronto was related to fatigue not lack of match play.

Still, I'm going with the #1 seed. Everything else aside, he's got the best mind for game and the preparation to go with it.

wcr
08-21-2005, 04:40 AM
I don't think anyone has consistently played really well this tournament, so anything could happen in the finals.

How true.

nobama
08-21-2005, 04:42 AM
Forget the stats, not indepth enough for the Ginepri UFEs I think worth examining. Those UFEs cost him two games, two sets and the match. Those particular types of UFEs can define the very character of a player and their true potential.

The other thing about Ginepri is that as solid as he was, he doesn't really have any weapons per se. No stand out shots, or at least any that I saw against Federer.Well what about Roger's stats? Are those deceiving as well? I didn't see the match so I'm just trying to figure out if Ginepri was ever close to beating him. He only had the one break point - were there any deuce games on Roger's serve or any shots where he got lucky or breaks because of bad calls? I read an article after the match that said Ginepri was "still brooding" and thought he should've won today. But if he only had the one opportunity to break, how can he think he should've won? Unless he played some crappy points on Roger's serve at 30-all or 40-all. Or thought he should've won the second set 7/6? :confused:

wcr
08-21-2005, 04:46 AM
Well what about Roger's stats? Are those deceiving as well? I didn't see the match so I'm just trying to figure out if Ginepri was ever close to beating him. He only had the one break point - were there any deuce games on Roger's serve or any shots where he got lucky or breaks because of bad calls? I read an article after the match that said Ginepri was "still brooding" and thought he should've won today. But if he only had the one opportunity to break, how can he think he should've won? Unless he played some crappy points on Roger's serve at 30-all or 40-all. Or thought he should've won the second set 7/6? :confused:


I'm not talking about stats nor do I recall saying that they were "deceiving." I'm talking about particular UFEs at specific points in the match. Technical talk for lack of a better work. Probably the same UFEs that has Ginepri still brooding. And, for a good reason.

Folks who saw the match, and saw the points I'm referring to, will look for this in future Ginepri matches. You can't grasp the flavor of the UFE if you didn't see the match.

Blaze
08-21-2005, 12:19 PM
I saw the match and don't think Fed play bad at all and maybe the Wimbledon final is still in alot of people's mind. Expecting that kind of tennis all the time is :eek:

nobama
08-21-2005, 12:52 PM
I saw the match and don't think Fed play bad at all and maybe the Wimbledon final is still in alot of people's mind. Expecting that kind of tennis all the time is :eek:I only saw the first set which I didn't think was great tennis from Roger, but the stats don't look that bad, and he only had one break point against him (in the first set). Whether it's luck or whatever - he's in another final, even when not playing near his best. I think that's incredible. And no doubt this is the final CBS was hoping for.

LLeytonRules
08-21-2005, 01:16 PM
Is the final on cbs?Is it live?

squirtkb97
08-21-2005, 01:18 PM
The final is live on CBS at 12:30 Eastern.

World Beater
08-21-2005, 01:28 PM
Usually finals are played in the afternoon, wonder why it is played so early??/

Blaze
08-21-2005, 01:37 PM
Usually finals are played in the afternoon, wonder why it is played so early??/


Because of golf.

PamV
08-21-2005, 02:32 PM
Forget the stats, not indepth enough for the Ginepri UFEs I think worth examining. Those UFEs cost him two games, two sets and the match. Those particular types of UFEs can define the very character of a player and their true potential.

The other thing about Ginepri is that as solid as he was, he doesn't really have any weapons per se. No stand out shots, or at least any that I saw against Federer.

I was trying to figure out what weapons Ginepri had. They weren't very apparent other than quick reflexes. I don't think the two times Roger broke Ginepri were because of Ginepri's errors. In each of those games Ginepri made 1 UFE, but the rest of it was Roger making winners.

PamV
08-21-2005, 02:38 PM
True Federer did not play great going into the finals, but he stepped it up a few levels against Roddick. I have no idea how Federer is going to play tomorrow, it certainly seems like he is vulnerable in this match; he will definitely need to play more consistent tennis tomorrow; he was far too erratic against Ginepri.

I've got all of 2004 Toronto tournament on tape, I'll have to review. I don't think Roger played horribly through out. He played like a Ninja in the final. I remember how Roddick would just stand there shaking his head in disbelief at times. Once Roger was serving at down break point. He then served it out with aces and Roddick was disgusted.

The whole thing was highly entertaining and I hope this final goes the same way with Roger playing like magic. Come on Roger!

PamV
08-21-2005, 02:45 PM
I saw the match and don't think Fed play bad at all and maybe the Wimbledon final is still in alot of people's mind. Expecting that kind of tennis all the time is :eek:

I think what people are reacting to is the fact that Ginepri is only ranked around 58, and he has been a low performer for so long. People expected Roger to take him out rather routinely. I had expected Roger to get Ginepri in a few frustrating rallies and for Ginepri to lose his temper and start playing like a fool. That's what would normally happen. However, Ginepri stayed cool and hung in there. Roger seemed more frustrated.

nobama
08-21-2005, 02:57 PM
I think what people are reacting to is the fact that Ginepri is only ranked around 58, and he has been a low performer for so long. People expected Roger to take him out rather routinely. I had expected Roger to get Ginepri in a few frustrating rallies and for Ginepri to lose his temper and start playing like a fool. That's what would normally happen. However, Ginepri stayed cool and hung in there. Roger seemed more frustrated.I only saw the first set, but if you look at the stats, other than UE's, it doesn't look like he played a bad match. Good serving %, only had one break point against him. Fired off 12 aces. Only one double fault, which came in the game he was broken. And in that game Ginepri had a couple unbelievable shots that I'm sure even he was shaking his head wondering how in the world he made them. Was Ginepri really pressuring Roger on his serve? Were there a lot of deuce games? Or was Roger's return game just crap?

victory1
08-21-2005, 04:02 PM
I only saw the first set, but if you look at the stats, other than UE's, it doesn't look like he played a bad match. Good serving %, only had one break point against him. Fired off 12 aces. Only one double fault, which came in the game he was broken. And in that game Ginepri had a couple unbelievable shots that I'm sure even he was shaking his head wondering how in the world he made them. Was Ginepri really pressuring Roger on his serve? Were there a lot of deuce games? Or was Roger's return game just crap?


Except for the game that Ginepri broke Fed (which came out of nowhere when Fed was serving at 4-4, at that point he had not even faced a breakpoint while Ginepri faced 2), Fed was doing a great job serving. Now his returns where way off, the match would have had a different tone if Fed was able to convert his 2 breakpoints in the 2nd game in the 1st set, he led Ginepri 15-40 and was unable to convert.