Berdych def Nadal: 6-7(4) 6-2 7-6(3 ) [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Berdych def Nadal: 6-7(4) 6-2 7-6(3 )

El Legenda
08-17-2005, 02:38 AM
after a semi choke job.












RDucky: the king of starting match threads before the match is done. :yeah:

Leo
08-17-2005, 02:40 AM
ESPN is fucking idiots if they don't show this match. Fuck the boring Safin 2-setter and show a real match!

Denaon
08-17-2005, 02:42 AM
congratulations Berdych!!

rue
08-17-2005, 02:44 AM
Now its time for Nadal to rest up, cos he must have been real tired today.

El Legenda
08-17-2005, 02:44 AM
good PAW pick for me :bounce:

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 02:46 AM
Unbelievable match, Berdych could hardly move from the 1st set but played out of this world

DanEd
08-17-2005, 02:46 AM
very good match, i knew tomas could win against nadal.
rafael was a little tired too

congrats tomas :worship:

mangoes
08-17-2005, 02:46 AM
I don't want to see any crappy match by Safin. I want to see the Nadal match.

darnyelb
08-17-2005, 02:47 AM
Berdych saved 2 match points at 5-6.

Great job Tomas... last year Federer, this year Nadal. Good scalpings, but time to see this guy become more consistent. I'm still not seeing the great 'talent' the commentators have talked him up as, but I like the guy.

Rest up, Rafael... you and your manpris are gonna rock Flushing Meadows.

tennyfan
08-17-2005, 02:47 AM
Wow. That must have been a really great match to watch. I hope too that ESPN shows this match instead of the Safin match. That's the nice thing about delayed matches v. live matches.

Lots of upsets today. What will tomorrow bring?

Castafiore
08-17-2005, 02:47 AM
What a fight this seems to have been!

Congratulations Berdych! :yeah:

ah, Rafa... :sad:...at least he did not go down without a fight so I'm proud of that but this sucks....first round. I hope this match against a big server has been a good learning experience for him.
Go and rest, Nadal and come back strong for the USO.

cleverdutchclogs
08-17-2005, 02:48 AM
Berdych choked......and unchoked! Well played, son!

TheBoiledEgg
08-17-2005, 02:48 AM
must be that time of year again :lol:

this time last yr
he bt Federer

Tomas :bolt:

darnyelb
08-17-2005, 02:48 AM
Nadal-Berdych IS going to be aired on ESPN2, no? It says so in the TV Listings http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/scheduleWeek?sport=TN

croat123
08-17-2005, 02:48 AM
:woohoo: i knew nadal would lose on hard the moment he faced a big server :)

VingaRafel
08-17-2005, 02:50 AM
Congrats to Berdych.

Nadal went down fighting like a true champ. Great job.

Now get some well deserved rest and see u at the open.

Vinga!

ys
08-17-2005, 02:50 AM
That's what always is going happen to Nadal when he faces a good hardcourter - that is a hard-serving, flat-hitting guy.

Pay attention to the stats. First set: Berdych serves at 48%. It is a close set. Second set: Berdych serves at 72%. Nadal is blown off the court. Third set: Berdych serves at 47%. It is again a close set.

Summary: just like an year ago nadal is vulnerable when facing a big serve. He is lucky he didn't have to play Roddick. Roddick's second serve is as good as Berdych's first. It would have been another embarassment like their last year USO match.

Nadal still is very much a claycourter. To succeed on hardcourts he needs a soft draw consisting of certain type of players.

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 02:50 AM
Unbelievable performance by Berdych he couldnt move well halfway through the first set because of a groin pull. He hung in there, and played with so much guts, nothing but respect for the young Czech :worship:

Rafa not sorry you lost, you are playing too much you need rest :lol:

Pea
08-17-2005, 02:51 AM
Wow! Congrats Tomas!!! He's really a giant killer!

+alonso
08-17-2005, 02:52 AM
Congrats Berdych ;) Sorry Rafael

World Beater
08-17-2005, 02:52 AM
Nice fight from Nadal. But Berdych show some real courage. It was a choke job from both ends and Berdych was just as tired as nadal if not more.

Sjengster
08-17-2005, 02:52 AM
TBE's right, this is the week his Olympic points come off - not that it'll make much difference to his ranking. Well done Berdych, the only man to beat Federer and Nadal in the past year, exactly 52 weeks apart! (Apart from Hrbaty, but his win over Nadal this year was a retirement...) I've seen barely any of his matches but the little I did see looked very good indeed, and this result just proves he has big potential.

lucashg
08-17-2005, 02:53 AM
:eek: That's a great win for Berdych! And what a fight it seems to have been. Can't believe I didn't see the match, :o I thought that he was over after the medical time-out ( :tape: ), but he proved me wrong. Congratulations! Now do something over this great win and advance a few rounds!

I don't know how Nadal played, but great to see he didn't give up at all (not a surprise, but still) and he had to face a good server in a hardcourt going to the USO.

darnyelb
08-17-2005, 02:53 AM
Has Roger's Cincinnati curse passed on to Rafael? :)

World Beater
08-17-2005, 02:55 AM
:eek: That's a great win for Berdych! And what a fight it seems to have been. Can't believe I didn't see the match, :o I thought that he was over after the medical time-out ( :tape: ), but he proved me wrong. Congratulations! Now do something over this great win and advance a few rounds!

I don't know how Nadal played, but great to see he didn't give up at all (not a surprise, but still) and he had to face a good server in a hardcourt going to the USO.

Nadal received some treatment for what looked to be either cramps or a stiff groin. In the third set, there was no fatigue from nadal though. He was jumping up and down and seemed to have more energy than tomas.

Tomas hit a HUGE second serve down matchpoint!

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 02:57 AM
Nadal received some treatment for what looked to be either cramps or a stiff groin. In the third set, there was no fatigue from nadal though. He was jumping up and down and seemed to have more energy than tomas.

Tomas hit a HUGE second serve down matchpoint!

3rd set Nadal looked way better than Thomas, I am impressed that Berdych didnt stop, he could hardly move. I am not seeing good things in the next round unless he gets a miracle treatment

Christina
08-17-2005, 02:59 AM
Great match! Well done Tomas.

If only he could be a bit more consistent... :)

lucashg
08-17-2005, 03:00 AM
Nadal received some treatment for what looked to be either cramps or a stiff groin. In the third set, there was no fatigue from nadal though. He was jumping up and down and seemed to have more energy than tomas.

I'll just say I'm not surprised he did this. :bolt:

Tomas hit a HUGE second serve down matchpoint!

Now that's some guts! Impressive. :yeah:

rofe
08-17-2005, 03:00 AM
3rd set Nadal looked way better than Thomas, I am impressed that Berdych didnt stop, he could hardly move. I am not seeing good things in the next round unless he gets a miracle treatment

I agree, I think he pretty much played himself out of the tournament. I think he wanted to prove to himself that he could beat Nadal on HC. I believe that he said he would love to meet Nadal on HC after their previous match which he lost.

I would love to see more of his tennis though.

Leo
08-17-2005, 03:00 AM
Nadal-Berdych IS going to be aired on ESPN2, no? It says so in the TV Listings http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/scheduleWeek?sport=TN

But that schedule also said Safin was going to be their afternoon match and it ended up being Hewitt. And PMac said they're going to show Safin tonight. We'll see in a half hour!

rue
08-17-2005, 03:00 AM
Nadal will be back at the US Open with a vengence. He may have been tired too from all the tennis he played. It was a close match and Nadal really should have won the match a long time ago, but just could not convert on the break points and match points he had.

nobama
08-17-2005, 03:01 AM
And if some people say Rafa only lost because he was too tired I'll http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/puke/vomit-smiley-003.gif You gotta give credit where credit is due, and Berdych played some amazing tennis. I just thank god Roger didn't draw him in the first round or he'd have been thrown out on his arse in no time.

rofe
08-17-2005, 03:02 AM
I wouldn't write off Nadal just because he lost in the 1st round. Same thing happened to Fed and he won the US Open. Nadal is here to stay.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 03:03 AM
And if some people say Rafa only lost because he was too tired I'll http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/puke/vomit-smiley-003.gif You gotta give credit where credit is due, and Berdych played some amazing tennis. I just thank god Roger didn't draw him in the first round or he'd have been thrown out on his arse in no time.

Exactly. I wonder how many ppl actually watched the match. It was a great match from start to finish. If federer had drawn berdych, he would have lost as well.

azinna
08-17-2005, 03:05 AM
Tough fight from both players. Gave us a really excellent match.

From the beginning Berdych played Nadal exactly how one should on a fast-ish surface. Hitting angles to stretch Nadal wide. Expecting all his returns and great defense. Hitting your signature shot (in this case, the forehand) with both pace and angle. Coming into net at least occasionally with sharp, put-aways. And Most Importantly: hitting HARD BEHIND an almost running Nadal at least 60% of the time; this not only results in some immediate winners/forced errors, but also takes away his "start" toward the open court, and thus gives you future winners/forced errors.

The perfect game plan against Nadal. Agassi revealed almost none of the above on Sunday. Surprising considering his experience. I guess he was tired or something....Anyway, guys, if you watch the match you'll see the recipe for beating the Improved Nadal on hardcourts. Those who have the talent to execute it, and the balls to do so come Flushing Meadow, will prevent him from winning the US Open. Federer in particular should ask for a tape of this match.

Otherwise, Nadal still has a real strong chance of winning this last slam of the year. What he should do now is REST.

rofe
08-17-2005, 03:06 AM
And if some people say Rafa only lost because he was too tired I'll http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/puke/vomit-smiley-003.gif You gotta give credit where credit is due, and Berdych played some amazing tennis. I just thank god Roger didn't draw him in the first round or he'd have been thrown out on his arse in no time.

Yeah but Rafatards will be Rafatards :rolleyes:

Heh, about a 1st round match with Fed, we will never know will we? Since you are talking about a hypothetical situation, I could argue that Fed would have found some way to win. Remember, when his ground strokes were failing him in the Blake match - he quickly switched to a serve and volley game. That versitality is his saving grace.

darnyelb
08-17-2005, 03:08 AM
But that schedule also said Safin was going to be their afternoon match and it ended up being Hewitt. And PMac said they're going to show Safin tonight. We'll see in a half hour!

Yikes, that sucks. I hope it was because maybe the match preceding Marat's was running long so ESPN decided to switch to Hewitt's which was on schedule?

Can't see ESPN skipping a barnburner they know about in advance over a straight set affair, even if it is my boy Safin.

Scotso
08-17-2005, 03:10 AM
Too bad that Rafa couldn't take the match on one of those match points, but Berdych is a really talented player and I'm sure he deserved the win.

I'm also sure that Rafa is a bit tired, and it's probably better for his US Open chances that he went out early here and can get some rest.

nobama
08-17-2005, 03:12 AM
I wouldn't write off Nadal just because he lost in the 1st round. Same thing happened to Fed and he won the US Open. Nadal is here to stay.I don't think anyone is writing Nadal off. That would be stupid. But to say Berdych only won because Rafa was tired is also stupid. He had 55 winners in the match. But I suppose they'll just chalk that up to Rafa being to tired to run down balls. :rolleyes:

nobama
08-17-2005, 03:14 AM
Yeah but Rafatards will be Rafatards :rolleyes:

Heh, about a 1st round match with Fed, we will never know will we? Since you are talking about a hypothetical situation, I could argue that Fed would have found some way to win. Remember, when his ground strokes were failing him in the Blake match - he quickly switched to a serve and volley game. That versitality is his saving grace.Yeah it's quite possible he would've raised his game, he knows how to do that better than just about anyone. But I still think he would've lost.

1sun
08-17-2005, 03:14 AM
first of all props to both players, great match, great atmosphere. tomas desvered the win, he played great on the matchpoints and breakpoints. he was dictating play most of the match, but it was hit and miss, some great winners with some shitty shots. he hit so many winnners but so many uf errors too. nadal wasnt aggresive enough, to defensive, not enough winners, if he played more agreesive he may have won but one could argue that would come with more uf errors. its 4am over here and i am very happy i stayed up to watch the match because it was worth it. i also though it was over after the injury time out for tomas, but great mental strength shown by tomas and i thought he was gonna collapse at the end whereas nadal seemed fine physicaly one negative, bad form from rafa, he was fist pumping alot of tomas' errors which i didnt like but inreturn tomas shouted vamos right at rafa after he held serve at 5-6, in my book 2 wrongs make a right.
i really hope tomas can gain from this and go deep into the draw.
well played lads and cheers for the great match.

PamV
08-17-2005, 03:16 AM
ESPN is fucking idiots if they don't show this match. Fuck the boring Safin 2-setter and show a real match!

You should download PPLive.it and watch it online live. I've been able to watch everything live and the commentators are much better than on ESPN.

LaTenista
08-17-2005, 03:19 AM
Nadal-Berdych IS going to be aired on ESPN2, no? It says so in the TV Listings http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlistings/scheduleWeek?sport=TN

I just came home from attending this match, it is almost 3 hours long so I'm not sure what sort of hack job they make it if they cut it down to 2 hours.

Surreal. Berdych saved 3 MPs in the 12th game of the final set. The match was a roller coaster ride with all the breaks and unconverted break chances, both of them calling on the trainer multiple times, and did anyone else catch the 131 mph fault from Nadal?

I'm sure someday I will look back at it as a great match but all I can do is cry and think this is the second time I've seen Nadal play in Cincinnati (I've never been to any other ATP tourney) and he's lost both times (just now and 2004) in final set tiebreaks. :sad:

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 03:20 AM
And if some people say Rafa only lost because he was too tired I'll http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/puke/vomit-smiley-003.gif You gotta give credit where credit is due, and Berdych played some amazing tennis. I just thank god Roger didn't draw him in the first round or he'd have been thrown out on his arse in no time.

Honey I agree with everything you say, Roger should thank his lucky stars . James was no pushover but he showed none of the mental strength of the young Czech

World Beater
08-17-2005, 03:20 AM
I just came home from attending this match, it is almost 3 hours long so I'm not sure what sort of hack job they make it if they cut it down to 2 hours.

Surreal. Berdych saved 3 MPs in the 12th game of the final set. The match was a roller coaster ride with all the breaks and unconverted break chances, both of them calling on the trainer multiple times, and did anyone else catch the 131 mph fault from Nadal?

I'm sure someday I will look back at it as a great match but all I can do is cry and think this is the second time I've seen Nadal play in Cincinnati (I've never been to any other ATP tourney) and he's lost both times (just now and 2004) in final set tiebreaks. :sad:

he tried to hit his second serve way too hard in the tie break and consequently double faulted. Mental error from rafa

1sun
08-17-2005, 03:22 AM
You should download PPLive.it and watch it online live. I've been able to watch everything live and the commentators are much better than on ESPN.
yo pamv, you know that indian dude? he was a pretty good commie, good analysis and not licking arse.

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 03:23 AM
he tried to hit his second serve way too hard in the tie break and consequently double faulted. Mental error from rafa

I think he was feeling pressure from Berdych and tried to go for too much. Thomas was returning Rafas serves so well and dictating the points really well today.

rofe
08-17-2005, 03:23 AM
yo pamv, you know that indian dude? he was a pretty good commie, good analysis and not licking arse.

I can answer that - Leander Paes - good doubles player from India. Won a few GS with Mahesh Bhupati.

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 03:24 AM
yo pamv, you know that indian dude? he was a pretty good commie, good analysis and not licking arse.

You know the indian dude sounds like the guy from the matrix waiting fro teh train. Who is he?

PamV
08-17-2005, 03:24 AM
And if some people say Rafa only lost because he was too tired I'll http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/puke/vomit-smiley-003.gif You gotta give credit where credit is due, and Berdych played some amazing tennis. I just thank god Roger didn't draw him in the first round or he'd have been thrown out on his arse in no time.

That was a tough first round draw....but that's how it goes. As for Berdych, remember that Blake beat him in Washington. Berdych has a lot of talent and ablility, but maybe he's not all that consistent yet, and he appears to choke at times.

You keep picking on Roger lately, but I noticed that Berdych hit a lot of loose errors himself. He still won, but there was room for improvement.

bad gambler
08-17-2005, 03:24 AM
congrats to berdman :yeah:

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 03:24 AM
I can answer that - Leander Paes - good doubles player from India. Won a few GS with Mahesh Bhupati.

:eek: That was Paes, I thought he sounded familiar, thanks :worship:

Becool
08-17-2005, 03:26 AM
Mowgli lost
Oh well :)
Congrats Tomas

bad gambler
08-17-2005, 03:26 AM
Leander Paes is a wanker, but i agree his analysis was pretty good

rofe
08-17-2005, 03:29 AM
You keep picking on Roger lately, but I noticed that Berdych hit a lot of loose errors himself. He still won, but there was room for improvement.

I agree with you Pam, have more faith in THE MAN !

TennisLurker
08-17-2005, 03:29 AM
dina will cry forever


thanks berdych

rofe
08-17-2005, 03:29 AM
Leander Paes is a wanker, but i agree his analysis was pretty good

I guess "wanker" is a swear word but what does it mean?

PamV
08-17-2005, 03:30 AM
Honey I agree with everything you say, Roger should thank his lucky stars . James was no pushover but he showed none of the mental strength of the young Czech

Of course James didn't show the same ability of Berdych....but he didn't make much of a dent on Roger either. James didn't win a set. Roger wasn't perfect but he didn't exactly have to scrape out a win either.....he did it all in an orderly fashion. I hope we can move on and start worrying about Roger v. Kiefer and forget about the Blake match.

RogiFan88
08-17-2005, 03:30 AM
So Berdych continues his once-a-year upset... ;) but was it a GOOD match???

PamV
08-17-2005, 03:32 AM
yo pamv, you know that indian dude? he was a pretty good commie, good analysis and not licking arse.

I did not know the name....but I always like their commentary. Nice and light and to the point. I hate how PMac discusses 100 other players that are NOT in the current match.

nobama
08-17-2005, 03:37 AM
That was a tough first round draw....but that's how it goes. As for Berdych, remember that Blake beat him in Washington. Berdych has a lot of talent and ablility, but maybe he's not all that consistent yet, and he appears to choke at times.

You keep picking on Roger lately, but I noticed that Berdych hit a lot of loose errors himself. He still won, but there was room for improvement.Berdych was playing agressively. But he still had more winners than errors.

I hope Roger squishes that Kiwi tomorrow. Please no brainfarts tomorrow, Rogi, OK?

LaTenista
08-17-2005, 03:39 AM
ESPN2 is showing the Safin match right now :retard:

rofe
08-17-2005, 03:40 AM
Berdych was playing agressively. But he still had more winners than errors.

I hope Roger squishes that Kiwi tomorrow. Please no brainfarts tomorrow, Rogi, OK?

Roger will have brain farts tomorrow. I am fairly sure of that but not enough to lose the match. :cool:

It will be another ugly win.

nobama
08-17-2005, 03:44 AM
Roger will have brain farts tomorrow. I am fairly sure of that but not enough to lose the match. :cool:

It will be another ugly win.Oh please don't say that. :sad: I can't watch another ugly win from Rogi. Blech. http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/puke/vomit-smiley-003.gif

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 03:47 AM
Oh please don't say that. :sad: I can't watch another ugly win from Rogi. Blech. http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/images/smilies/puke/vomit-smiley-003.gif

Honey since he didnt play doubles today so he is still short of matches, I will take a big fat W even if its an ugly 2 or 3 TB W

hablovah19
08-17-2005, 03:47 AM
:eek:

nobama
08-17-2005, 04:13 AM
Honey since he didnt play doubles today so he is still short of matches, I will take a big fat W even if its an ugly 2 or 3 TB WOh I'll take it too. But it won't be any fun to watch. Will he play doubles before or after his singles match?

ys
08-17-2005, 04:17 AM
dina will cry forever


thanks berdych

She has forgotten about him already.. Because Oaf is playing again..:)

NYCtennisfan
08-17-2005, 04:21 AM
Great win for the Birdman. This is great to see after seeing how much he sucked earlier this year. He took a set 6-2 off of Nadal on clay as well. Hope he goes far in this tourny.

JeNn
08-17-2005, 04:22 AM
Nadal was so tired. Thats the main comment from this match.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 04:23 AM
Nadal was so tired. Thats the main comment from this match.

Troll

JeNn
08-17-2005, 04:26 AM
Troll

Heaven forbid that someone else have a different interpretation of the match than you.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 04:28 AM
Heaven forbid that someone else have a different interpretation of the match than you.

Thats not the point. i apologize for my comment. But the fact that all you have to offer from this match is that "nadal is tired" is really disrespectful. Nadal had mp's in this match and played some brilliant tennis, but didn't lose cos he was tired

JeNn
08-17-2005, 04:33 AM
Thats not the point. i apologize for my comment. But the fact that all you have to offer from this match is that "nadal is tired" is really disrespectful. Nadal had mp's in this match and played some brilliant tennis, but didn't lose cos he was tired

Yes, I was probably a bit blunt. I loved the match and I like Berdych but it was pretty obvious that Nadal was a quite flat, especially his serve coming undone in the last set, and why shouldn't he be? Remember Federer came here in 2004 after winning in Canada and died in the first round as well. It's a ridiculous schedule and it's not a coincidence. If you want to win Canada and Cincinatti these days you have to win 12 matches in 14 days, it's unbelievable. Much harder than a slam.

As you say Nadal had match points, if he had have been that little bit fresher I don't think he would have lost this match.

nobama
08-17-2005, 04:35 AM
If you replace Rafa with Roger would Fed fans get away with saying "he was tired"? :lol: I'm sorry but that shows disrespect to both players. There was some amazing tennis played tonight from both players.

guinevere_79
08-17-2005, 04:38 AM
I started watching just after Berdych had broken back in the 1st set. It was a good match, despite all those unforced errors from both players.

Nadal had his chances, but Berdych played some impressive points to save those match points in his last service game.

Yes, Nadal was tired, but I got the impression that he had more energy coming into the final set as compared to Berdych. And to Berdych's credit, he did take advantage, running Nadal around the court and taking a LOT of chances. So hats off to him...

JeNn
08-17-2005, 04:41 AM
If you replace Rafa with Roger would Fed fans get away with saying "he was tired"? :lol: I'm sorry but that shows disrespect to both players. There was some amazing tennis played tonight from both players.

When Federer lost the Olympics to Berdych weren't people saying he was tired? :confused:

And if Federer had have lost to Blake yesterday i would have said it was because he was rusty.

Anyway I don't really care. I just don't think its a match to draw huge conclusions from about Nadal's hard court form, like some people have.

disturb3d
08-17-2005, 04:41 AM
Nadal was so tired. Thats the main comment from this match.Correct. Tom's shot-making was only the icing on the cake.

I dislike Nadal, but he shouldn't be losing to a guy with less drive than himself.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 04:43 AM
Yes, I was probably a bit blunt. I loved the match and I like Berdych but it was pretty obvious that Nadal was a quite flat, especially his serve coming undone in the last set, and why shouldn't he be? Remember Federer came here in 2004 after winning in Canada and died in the first round as well. It's a ridiculous schedule and it's not a coincidence. If you want to win Canada and Cincinatti these days you have to win 12 matches in 14 days, it's unbelievable. Much harder than a slam.

As you say Nadal had match points, if he had have been that little bit fresher I don't think he would have lost this match.

I'm sorry but I don't agree. Rafa was for sure tired but it wasn't why he lost. Berdych saved 4 breakpts when he was down 3-4 with amazing tennis. Rafa couldn't do anything with the mp's. It was Berdych who was the aggressor not nadal. He was going for broke. Nothing Nadal could do.

Nadal had one chance at 6-5 15-30 where he hit a second serve return long. That was a chance that he screwed up. It is arguable that Berdych was probably more tired than nadal. So the reverse argument could be made as well. If Berdych was fresh...blah blah. He would have thrashed nadal in two. I don't believe it, but it follows from the same logic that nadal was tired.

nobama
08-17-2005, 04:45 AM
When Federer lost the Olympics to Berdych weren't people saying he was tired? :confused:

And if Federer had have lost to Blake yesterday i would have said it was because he was rusty.

Anyway I don't really care. I just don't think its a match to draw huge conclusions from about Nadal's hard court form, like some people have.Oh, I'm not drawing any conclusions. Nadal had match points and probably should've won the match. But for me just saying that Nadal was tired doesnt' give Berdych enough credit. He played very well tonight. And he looked really tired there at the end too. I don't think anyone here is saying this loss proves that his win in Montreal was a fluke or he's not a contender on hard courts.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 04:45 AM
When Federer lost the Olympics to Berdych weren't people saying he was tired? :confused:



no excuses for federer. He lost because he tomas was better that day.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 04:46 AM
Oh, I'm not drawing any conclusions. Nadal had match points and probably should've won the match. But for me just saying that Nadal was tired doesnt' give Berdych enough credit. He played very well tonight. And he looked really tired there at the end too. I don't think anyone here is saying this loss proves that his win in Montreal was a fluke or he's not a contender on hard courts.

Yes, exactly. I don't know where JenN gets that from. Rafa is still a major contender.

JeNn
08-17-2005, 04:47 AM
Oh, I'm not drawing any conclusions. Nadal had match points and probably should've won the match. But for me just saying that Nadal was tired doesnt' give Berdych enough credit. He played very well tonight. And he looked really tired there at the end too. I don't think anyone here is saying this loss proves that his win in Montreal was a fluke or he's not a contender on hard courts.

Look at the posts in this thread by Ys.

JeNn
08-17-2005, 04:47 AM
Yes, exactly. I don't know where JenN gets that from. Rafa is still a major contender.

See above.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 04:52 AM
See above.

you said "some people", yet, have pointed out one person.

JeNn
08-17-2005, 04:56 AM
you said "some people", yet, have pointed out one person.

Are you suggesting he is the only one who holds those opinions?

World Beater
08-17-2005, 04:57 AM
Are you suggesting he is the only one who holds those opinions?

I don't know, but in this thread thus far, you have only pointed him out.

Castafiore
08-17-2005, 05:07 AM
you said "some people", yet, have pointed out one person.
Two can play that game :p ;)


Mirkaland said "I don't think anyone here is saying this loss proves that his win in Montreal was a fluke or he's not a contender on hard courts."
--> 'anyone'

Jenn responded by pointing at an earlier comment by ys
--> 'ys' = anyone


;)

Seriously now, I give full credit to Berdych here. Yes, Nadal has played a lot of matches last week and it's probably been a pretty eventful week for him. I don't know what the schedule of Berdych was since he seemed to be tired as well in the last set.
But, most Nadal fans (by the looks of it) seem to give enough credit to Berdych. Judging by the score, both have fought hard but Berdych made the difference this time. Berdych is not consistent enough yet perhaps but he's very talented. He has a couple of big scalps already!
Most of us sensed that Nadal would have trouble with a big server but I was still glad to see Nadal push him a lot and fighting so hard. He will learn from this. I also hope that he will keep improving his own serve like he has done already because a tall guy like Berdych has less problems with the top spin (I think) so Rafa needs to improve it further.

Finally: sure, I'm disappointed but in a sense, I'm glad as well.
1. He can have a good rest to the USO
2. The hype will go down a bit. I love seeing the enthousiasm about him but the hype makes me nervous at times, because it creates incredible expectations (as if his current accomplishments weren't enough, the hype creates even more expectations and Nadal is very good but not superman...many of his fans knew/hoped that he would be able to play well on HC but he needs time to finetune his weapons on that surface even more, I think)

megadeth
08-17-2005, 05:08 AM
this means that roger's race position is secured for at least a month until after the open....

rue
08-17-2005, 05:49 AM
I think that it will serve him better for losing early to rest up now. If he had gotten to the quarters or farther this week I don't think he would really have as much energy for the US Open coming up. He lost, but the guy is still young and he is definitely a major contender at the US Open. It would have been a whole other story if he had lost in straight sets. He fought real hard, but like he said he did not have much luck on the match points that he had.

Now that Nadal is gone, I think Federer will probably win this one now, but not without a stiff challenge from the others.

Chloe le Bopper
08-17-2005, 05:53 AM
Oh. I guess there is no point in Rafa fans following Cincy anymore. We'll move on and wait for the next tournament for tennis to matter again.

Nice one, Berdych.

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 05:55 AM
Top performance by Berdych and he won the match and Rafa didn't lose it, he kept going for his shots and saved many break points and had a much better conversion rate than Rafa. Very strange he went for an injury timeout when he was leading, but one thing was Rafa that wasn't getting enough depth and sure he might have been a bit tired, but Nadal had more than enough chances to take this, but Tomas was better when it counted and deserved his victory.

World Beater
08-17-2005, 05:56 AM
Top performance by Berdych and he won the match and Rafa didn't lose it, he kept going for his shots and saved many break points and had a much better conversion rate than Rafa. Very strange he went for an injury timeout when he was leading, but one thing was Rafa that wasn't getting enough depth and sure he might have been a bit tired, but Nadal had more than enough chances to take this, but Tomas was better when it counted and deserved his victory.

At least someone has some sense in this thread, and I know you like rafa to a certain degree.

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 06:02 AM
this means that roger's race position is secured for at least a month until after the open....

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/happy0065.gif

Yes that makes me happy, Rafa is too young to be #1. He needs to enjoy his youth and the game a bit more and not have to deal with all that pressure

Chloe le Bopper
08-17-2005, 06:04 AM
At least someone has some sense in this thread, and I know you like rafa to a certain degree.
My post was perfectly sensible!

Björki
08-17-2005, 06:05 AM
Rafa :sad:
Tomas :yeah:

World Beater
08-17-2005, 06:05 AM
My post was perfectly sensible!

Of course! GWH wasn't the only one :D

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 06:06 AM
My post was perfectly sensible!

:wavey: Who is the lucky dude in your avatar :D

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 06:08 AM
At least someone has some sense in this thread, and I know you like rafa to a certain degree.

I only posted what I saw and haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread. I mean personally I rate Berdych and actually didn't think he'd win, but good to be pleasantly surprised.

NYCtennisfan
08-17-2005, 06:13 AM
What's even more amazing about this win was that the Birdman was injured early and could barely move and yet still won. Hope he keeps it up.

vincayou
08-17-2005, 06:13 AM
Berdych seems to be a bad match up to Nadal. Took him a set on clay and now this. It's gonna be interesting to follow their nex encounters.

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 06:15 AM
Berdych seems to be a bad match up to Nadal. Took him a set on clay and now this. It's gonna be interesting to follow their nex encounters.

Ditto, I saw their match on clay and I had a feeling that Nadal would have to play out of this world to beat Thomas

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 06:21 AM
What's even more amazing about this win was that the Birdman was injured early and could barely move and yet still won. Hope he keeps it up.

I don't think he was injured, just fatigued from all the work he had to do.

Chloe le Bopper
08-17-2005, 06:32 AM
:wavey: Who is the lucky dude in your avatar :D
Andreas Vinciguerra

oneandonlyhsn
08-17-2005, 06:34 AM
Andreas Vinciguerra

Thanks :hug: so you are really not going to follow Cincy anymore :sad: you know Paulo needs you the most :lol:

Chloe le Bopper
08-17-2005, 06:37 AM
Thanks :hug: so you are really not going to follow Cincy anymore :sad: you know Paulo needs you the most :lol:
I just being a Rafatard ;)

Paulo will win his next match 6-0 6-0. And King Andy will crush Marat by a similar margin.

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 06:45 AM
I just being a Rafatard ;)

Paulo will win his next match 6-0 6-0. And King Andy will crush Marat by a similar margin.

Am I a Fed hater and a Piggy Hata now, since I said Berdych deserved to win?

Chloe le Bopper
08-17-2005, 06:48 AM
Am I a Fed hater and a Piggy Hata now, since I said Berdych deserved to win?
You have always been a Ninja hata! Karate Chop! The Nadal hating also comes as no surprise. Why I would ban you myself if I had the powers. So much hatred, how do you live without yourself? :sad:

Um, seriously, this is not really a surprise is it? I mean, with Nadal coming off his week in Montreal and Berdych being potentially awesome even if he's been spotty this year... I can't say I fell over. I mean, I didn't call it either. Just saying :p

Seleshfan
08-17-2005, 06:53 AM
You have always been a Ninja hata! Karate Chop! The Nadal hating also comes as no surprise. Why I would ban you myself if I had the powers. So much hatred, how do you live without yourself? :sad:

Um, seriously, this is not really a surprise is it? I mean, with Nadal coming off his week in Montreal and Berdych being potentially awesome even if he's been spotty this year... I can't say I fell over. I mean, I didn't call it either. Just saying :p

You're beind too modest about Nadal's talents. After Nadal proved his hard court ability in Montreal, I was certain he'd defeat Berdych 6-0, 6-0, in 37 minutes. But, I had obviously forgotten this was Berdych's week to play a good match.

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 06:56 AM
You have always been a Ninja hata! Karate Chop! The Nadal hating also comes as no surprise. Why I would ban you myself if I had the powers. So much hatred, how do you live without yourself? :sad:


It's hard to live with myself most of the time, but suicide is not an option, which would be sad for a lot of people on MTF.

Um, seriously, this is not really a surprise is it? I mean, with Nadal coming off his week in Montreal and Berdych being potentially awesome even if he's been spotty this year... I can't say I fell over. I mean, I didn't call :)

It's a surprise and it isn't. I mean I picked this in the PAW tournament and the circumstances were in Berdych's favour. The guy does have major talent and for someone so big he moves very well and he has a very good game, which will take longer to develop and yes he has been up and down, but he does have a game that can trouble Rafa.

One thing the topspin that Rafa gets, doesn't come up as high on Berdych and also the Berdman would have more probs with low shots, but the combo of Rafa being a bit exhausted and also that he was playing against a very good opponent who played up to their abilities, made it a tough match for Rafa and as I said the thing he has done so well this year is convert his chances, which is what he didn't do in this match.

Castafiore
08-17-2005, 06:58 AM
You have always been a Ninja hata! Karate Chop! The Nadal hating also comes as no surprise. Why I would ban you myself if I had the powers. So much hatred, how do you live without yourself? :sad:

Um, seriously, this is not really a surprise is it? I mean, with Nadal coming off his week in Montreal and Berdych being potentially awesome even if he's been spotty this year... I can't say I fell over. I mean, I didn't call it either. Just saying :p
Nope, not exactly a huge surprise. Berdych is indeed awesome at times, now he needs to show those skills more often.

So, Nadal gave him a good fight but a tall guy with a huge serve gives him problems at the moment.
You know, this made me think of one of my fellow Belgians: Rochus (Ollie). He has beaten tall guys with big serves, such as Safin and Karlovic. Maybe, Nadal could use some tips from him on how to deal with those big guys. :)
If you're not stronger and you can not simply overpower them, you've got to outsmart them but that takes a bit of experience: i.e. play more matches on HC against big, tall servers.

Chloe le Bopper
08-17-2005, 07:03 AM
You're beind too modest about Nadal's talents. After Nadal proved his hard court ability in Montreal, I was certain he'd defeat Berdych 6-0, 6-0, in 37 minutes. But, I had obviously forgotten this was Berdych's week to play a good match.
I can't wait until August 2006 when Berdych plays a good match again.

TheMightyFed
08-17-2005, 07:16 AM
I can't wait until August 2006 when Berdych plays a good match again.
lol :cool:

Exodus
08-17-2005, 07:52 AM
great to see Berdych kick Nadal's ass

Carlita
08-17-2005, 07:54 AM
:bigcry: :fiery:

~EMiLiTA~
08-17-2005, 07:57 AM
I can't wait until August 2006 when Berdych plays a good match again.

hahaha yeah

sad for Rafa but unfortunately this was not totally unexpected...at least not to me anyway. berdych is a tough player to have to face if you're a bit tired. Rafa should just rest now...i wonder if he'll play new haven or not. hopefully not.

vincayou
08-17-2005, 08:08 AM
I can't wait until August 2006 when Berdych plays a good match again.

Are you not afraid that dirk will bump into this thread each time that Berdych is playing a good match between now and August 2006? :D

Chloe le Bopper
08-17-2005, 08:12 AM
Are you not afraid that dirk will bump into this thread each time that Berdych is playing a good match between now and August 2006? :D

Not particularly, because it's not the same senario. I mean, I know you're just cracking, but uh... try harder :shrug:

As I told ya - Dirk knows why I did that and that's all there is to it.

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 08:40 AM
TBE's right, this is the week his Olympic points come off - not that it'll make much difference to his ranking. Well done Berdych, the only man to beat Federer and Nadal in the past year, exactly 52 weeks apart! (Apart from Hrbaty, but his win over Nadal this year was a retirement...) I've seen barely any of his matches but the little I did see looked very good indeed, and this result just proves he has big potential.

Berdych is one hell of a young player, he has a very nice serve and one of the most dangerous fhīs in the game. Yesterday he played at a great level, was the better player on court and was just too good for Nadal.

PD: Nadal looked much more handicapped by his injury than Berdych, btw... :rolleyes:

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 08:45 AM
Nadal will be back at the US Open with a vengence. He may have been tired too from all the tennis he played. It was a close match and Nadal really should have won the match a long time ago, but just could not convert on the break points and match points he had.

All credit goes to Berdych, he came up with big shots at break points and match points, nothing much Nadal could do about that. Nadal made sth like 5 or 6 df in the 3rd set cause he was also bothered by his leg, nothing to do with a choke.

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 08:48 AM
Tough fight from both players. Gave us a really excellent match.

From the beginning Berdych played Nadal exactly how one should on a fast-ish surface. Hitting angles to stretch Nadal wide. Expecting all his returns and great defense. Hitting your signature shot (in this case, the forehand) with both pace and angle. Coming into net at least occasionally with sharp, put-aways. And Most Importantly: hitting HARD BEHIND an almost running Nadal at least 60% of the time; this not only results in some immediate winners/forced errors, but also takes away his "start" toward the open court, and thus gives you future winners/forced errors.

The perfect game plan against Nadal. Agassi revealed almost none of the above on Sunday. Surprising considering his experience. I guess he was tired or something....Anyway, guys, if you watch the match you'll see the recipe for beating the Improved Nadal on hardcourts. Those who have the talent to execute it, and the balls to do so come Flushing Meadow, will prevent him from winning the US Open. Federer in particular should ask for a tape of this match.

Otherwise, Nadal still has a real strong chance of winning this last slam of the year. What he should do now is REST.

Good post, also agree in most parts of it, but itīs not like itīs an easy recipe the one Berdych showed yesterday. It requires a lot of talent to play at that level and Berdych is a priviledged.

Peta Pan
08-17-2005, 08:55 AM
I only posted what I saw and haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread. I mean personally I rate Berdych and actually didn't think he'd win, but good to be pleasantly surprised.
Ahh so you lied when you told me you thought he could win ;)

This is a pleasant suprise to come home to! Awesome Tomas, I just wish I could have seen the match :(

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 08:56 AM
I don't think he was injured, just fatigued from all the work he had to do.

Welcome to MTF virtual reality, Berdych won yesterday with one leg and Nadal didnīt even call the trainer

Peta Pan
08-17-2005, 09:02 AM
Oh, and everyone going on about his 'one good match a year'. Tomas has struggled during the start of the year but has had some decent matches and results over the past few weeks... it's just a bit of consistancy that he needs to gain. He's still young and still has the potential.

mickymouse
08-17-2005, 09:27 AM
Good match. Berdych volleyed and served well when it mattered. Can't wait to see Nadal's next match against a big server. :devil:

Papakori
08-17-2005, 09:32 AM
:yippee: Tomas!

Clara Bow
08-17-2005, 09:42 AM
I have to say that I was not surprised by this. Tomas played really well a month ago during the tournament and during his loss against Nadal and said that he really wanted to play Nadal on hard courts.

Good to read that it was a high quality match from both players, albiet with a couple of mental wobbles.

Sorry that Nadal lost, but at least he will get some rest. And as a Rafael fan who likes to look for silver linings in losses for players I like -although this was yet another loss against someone with a strong serve- he is beginning to do better in such losses (meaning maybe he is learning how to play them more).

Tomas has shown glimpses of great talent but I have also seen him mentally unravel, like he did this year at Wimbledon. But I hope that as he matures he is able to become more consistant. It is too bad that he will likely be too tired tomorrow to play his full game, but maybe he will be able to dig deep. I would love to see him make a good run and meet Andy in the quarters. Who knows maybe with Paul-Henri in Montreal and a good run by Tomas here this could be the summer of talented players getting their heads together.

Corinna
08-17-2005, 09:50 AM
berdych :bowdown:

Shabazza
08-17-2005, 09:51 AM
I would love to see him make a good run and meet Andy in the quarters. Who knows maybe with Paul-Henri in Montreal and a good run by Tomas here this could be the summer of talented players getting their heads together.
Would be nice indeed!

yomike
08-17-2005, 09:57 AM
Nadal aint tired. I'm sure he was very confident on that match after a restday and winning Montreal. He just couldnt run down those balls like he did on Agassi. I saw Berdych play davis cup against spain early 2004 and he really places the ball well.

propi
08-17-2005, 10:00 AM
I'm glad for Rafa, he'll be able to rest longer for USO :)
Congrats to Berdych, if I'm not wrong he was the one to stop RF last year as well :)

Jogy
08-17-2005, 10:38 AM
great that was, Berdych!

The Pro
08-17-2005, 10:42 AM
I'd love to think that Nadal was knackered and that's why he lost.

But it appears that fresh into a tounament he can be troubled easily be people who are big-servers/lefties/both. And obviously anyone has has the talen to beat him, but this year it's been that demographic that have caused him pain. Waske, Berdych, Muller, Ferrer.

Still, us Nadal fans are optimistic, silver lining people, and I think he will come back when the US Open comes round and kick ass. :D

nobama
08-17-2005, 10:43 AM
I'm glad for Rafa, he'll be able to rest longer for USO :)
Congrats to Berdych, if I'm not wrong he was the one to stop RF last year as well :)At the Olympics, not here. Here he lost to Hrbaty.

Jogy
08-17-2005, 10:43 AM
Yes that makes me happy, Rafa is too young to be #1.
And Federer is too much a jerk to be #1 :)
Bring on Nadal :p

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 10:54 AM
Ahh so you lied when you told me you thought he could win ;)

This is a pleasant suprise to come home to! Awesome Tomas, I just wish I could have seen the match :(

No, I wasn't lying, just trying to lessen expectations and it worked.

I did see parts of the match, before I had to go and listen to academic crap, if there is any rain about they will show this for sure and the Berdman really deserved his victory.

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 10:56 AM
Welcome to MTF virtual reality, Berdych won yesterday with one leg and Nadal didnīt even call the trainer

Rafa already did that against Moya. The thing is I'll be probably called a Rafa hata now :)

uNIVERSE mAN
08-17-2005, 11:43 AM
why were these guys so tired after only three sets? what if it was a five set match, are we looking at resuscitation?

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 11:44 AM
why were these guys so tired after only three sets? what if it was a five set match, are we looking at resuscitation?

Once again an outstanding intellectual contribution to the greater good of tennis discussion.

RonE
08-17-2005, 11:45 AM
Wow sounds like an unbelievable match. Shame they didn't show it :(

Congrats to the Birdman :hatoff:

It's porkchops on the menu tonight!!!

avocadoe
08-17-2005, 12:24 PM
I'm almost hoping for T-showers in Cincy so I can see some of that :)

nobama
08-17-2005, 12:30 PM
why were these guys so tired after only three sets? what if it was a five set match, are we looking at resuscitation?Um, maybe because of the conditions there? :scratch: Humidity was like 100%.

azinna
08-17-2005, 12:45 PM
Good post, also agree in most parts of it, but itīs not like itīs an easy recipe the one Berdych showed yesterday. It requires a lot of talent to play at that level and Berdych is a priviledged.


Deivid, I agree with you there. I think there are about 5-8 players (including Federer) who could actually execute this (rather obvious) game plan in a big match. I thought Agassi was one of them. He has the tools and talent. But he's learned to be too much of a side-to-side grinder of his opponents. I had forgotten how conservative Agassi had become in his shotmaking since the 80s-early 90s and Nadal exposed the limits of his game. Most of Agassi shots were landing a full six inches inside the lines, when he went for the angles he did so without pace, his approach shots were unintelligent, even desperate at times, and his volleys were less put-aways than timid questions Nadal answered time and time again. In short, Agassi's game plan was bife de lomo para Nadal. And while folks could cite say fatigue or injury layoff issues on the older man's part, I'd say it was most definitely also Nadal and the top flight game he is currently demanding of all his competition. Agassi wasn't expecting to have to go for winners just to open the court or eventually get a forced error.

Meanwhile, Berdych, who has been playing Nadal since they were pre-teens, came in with the only game plan that makes sense. And (eventually) executed, thigh issues, fatigue, choking and all.

Nadal needs REST now. But those who think that a rested Nadal would have cruised are mistaken. His main issue last night was his tendency to be defensive. It's a problem we've seen all year long (esp in big matches, like the FO final) and it seems he has to fight himself to go for wrong-footing, DTL winners in the middle of aggressive rallies, especially off the backhand side. What's worse, even when he's fresh, he really is content looping shots short into the middle of no-man's land, banking on his spin and defence to frustrate. Berdych, at around 6ft 4in, had no problem with the spin, especially since his impulse to dictate prevented Nadal from offensively spinning the ball. On the other hand, the 3rd set Nadal played against Agassi on Sunday is the way he should play every damn set: with top-flight defensive skills complementing top-flight offence. The backhand winners won that set and match for Nadal.

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 12:54 PM
Rafa already did that against Moya. The thing is I'll be probably called a Rafa hata now :)

Couldnīt watch the match against Moyá, but yesterday he was bothered for sure.

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 12:58 PM
Meanwhile, Berdych, who has been playing Nadal since they were pre-teens, came in with the only game plan that makes sense. And (eventually) executed, injury and choking and all.

People are always looking for excuses and it's not like these two don't know each other, then again the one thing that would bother the Berdman is something Rafa doesn't generally play and it was a dangerous match.

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 01:00 PM
Couldnīt watch the match against Moyá, but yesterday he was bothered for sure.

He was a bit flat and sluggish, plus it was more humid in Cincinatti than in Montreal and the commentators said he had to be up at 3am to catch the flight, but the conditions were tough for both players, but Rafa had his chances and the Berdman played some gutsy shots, the thing was Rafa was serving very badly in the 3rd.

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 01:03 PM
Deivid, I completely agree with you there. I think there are about 5-8 players (including Federer) who could actually execute this (rather obvious) game plan in a big match. I thought Agassi was one of them. He has the tools and talent. But he's learned to be too much of a side-to-side grinder of his opponents (que es chorizo para Rafa). I had forgotten how conservative Agassi had become in his shotmaking since the 80s-early 90s and Nadal exposed the limits of his game. Most of Agassi shots were landing a full six inches inside the lines, when he went for the angles he did so without pace, his approach shots were unintelligent, even desperate at times, and his volleys merely setup a stage for Nadal to display his superior athleticism and fire. In short, Agassi's game plan was bife de lomo para Nadal. Folks and fans could say the older man was fatigued from the day before or dealing with injury layoff issues, but it was most definitely also Nadal and the top flight game he is currently demanding of all his competition. Agassi wasn't expecting to have to go there. And he got flustered when he realised on Sunday that he had to. Meanwhile, Berdych, who has been playing Nadal since they were pre-teens, came in with the only game plan that makes sense. And (eventually) executed, injury and choking and all.

Berdychīs capability to give depth and power to his shots is hardly achieved by anyone right now, if heīs inspired as he was yesterday is a tough nut to crack. Iīve beeen saying since a lot of time ago he should be a top 10 player soon if nothing weird happens in his development.


Nadal needs serious REST now. But those who think that a rested Nadal would have cruised are mistaken. His main issue last night was his tendency to be defensive. It's a problem we've seen all year long (esp in big matches, like the FO final) and it seems he has to fight himself to go for wrong-footing, DTL winners in the middle of aggressive rallies, especially off the backhand side. What's worse, even when he's fresh, he really is content looping shots short into the middle of no-man's land, banking on his spin and defense to frustrate. Berdych, at around 6ft 4in, had no problem with the spin, especially since his impulse to dictate prevented Nadal from offensively spinning the ball. On the other hand, the 3rd set Nadal played against Agassi on Sunday is the way he should play every damn set: with his stunning defensive skills complementing some eye-popping offense. The backhand winners won that set and match for Nadal.

Thatīs a big truth and thatīs the main problem Nadal will have at indoors. He has the ability to turn defence into offence but many times heīs too conservative and just goes for that shot to what you say "the middle of no-man's land". That works ok on clay cause he has enough time to retrieve the next shot, but itīs a more dangerous thing on hard courts if u face such a player as Berdych and it will be a killer thing when roof is over the courts, thatīs why I say I donīt think we will do well at indoors for a while, he needs to be more agressive (and he can do that, itīs just a matter of getting accustomed) although he makes more mistakes than usual, that will for sure pay off for him.

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 01:04 PM
He was a bit flat and sluggish, plus it was more humid in Cincinatti than in Montreal and the commentators said he had to be up at 3am to catch the flight, but the conditions were tough for both players, but Rafa had his chances and the Berdman played some gutsy shots, the thing was Rafa was serving very badly in the 3rd.

Yeah he couldnīt hit a first serve in and hit 6 double faults in a single set which Iīve never seen him doing, maybe itīs just a coincidence but I think it had something to do with his leg bothering him

Fergie
08-17-2005, 01:06 PM
Congrats Tomas!!! :woohoo:

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 01:10 PM
Yeah he couldnīt hit a first serve and hit 6 double faults in a single set which Iīve never seen him doing, maybe itīs just a coincidence but I think it have something to do with his leg bothering him

That was a bit strange, but the Berdman was a very worthy winner and I enjoyed the match for what it was and people forget the Berdman pushed him in Båstad.

Deivid23
08-17-2005, 01:15 PM
That was a bit strange, but the Berdman was a very worthy winner and I enjoyed the match for what it was and people forget the Berdman pushed him in Båstad.

Yesterdayīs match was a very difficult one for Rafa and all people who watched their Bastad final knew this surface would do nothing but increasing the problems Nadal had with Tomas there. Although I donīt like to see Nadal losing, Berdych being the one who defeats him and a nice payout made me be happy about that after all.

azinna
08-17-2005, 01:25 PM
...he needs to be more agressive (and he can do that, itīs just a matter of getting accustomed) although he makes more mistakes than usual, that will for sure pay off for him.

As you've probably noticed, too, he's actually making progress in the aggression department since the FO win. I like how he's going for forehand winners off deeply floated returns. Remarkable that he's actually able to do that with consistency. That actually is The Play against Federer, who likes to neutralise big serves by floating deep. Toni and co are doing a good job developing the boy.

We've known for a while about that forehand. But now, after watching that 3rd set against Agassi, I'm becoming a little impatient with his reactionary stance on the backhand. He actually doesn't hit that much more errors being aggressive on both wings, bullying his opponents around with spin and placement, then wrongfooting with a flatter, paced shot. He needs to get comfortable having this be his baseline play. But I guess, it'll take a year or so....

Action Jackson
08-17-2005, 01:26 PM
Yesterdayīs match was a very difficult one for Rafa and all people who watched their Bastad final knew this surface would do nothing but increasing the problems Nadal had with Tomas there. Although I donīt like to see Nadal losing, Berdych being the one who defeats him and a nice payout made me be happy about that after all.

Yes, the odds were there and as I said earlier there were certain things that were in Berdych's favour and I said in the other thread, the Rafa/Berdman matches are more interesting to me than the ones with Monfils and Gasquet.

It's good, now he can rest and freshen up and be ready for the real fun and games soon, just hope Berdman can carry on with it.

slipmaskin
08-17-2005, 01:35 PM
I can't stand the absolutely ridiculous kung fu kicks and the other "thrusts" related to them, so for that reason alone, this upset was a welcome one.

(I do enjoy watching Nadal though).

GermanBoy
08-17-2005, 03:02 PM
Berdych, you are my hero! :yeah: :bounce:

RogiFan88
08-17-2005, 03:24 PM
Roger will have brain farts tomorrow. I am fairly sure of that but not enough to lose the match. :cool:

It will be another ugly win.

Better an ugly win than an uglier loss... :p