stupid question about the atp race [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

stupid question about the atp race

megadeth
08-15-2005, 02:17 AM
if rafa overtakes federer on the atp race points by the end of the year, does that mean rafa ends as world #1 even if roger has more points in the entry rankings? :confused:

El Legenda
08-15-2005, 02:35 AM
if rafa overtakes federer on the atp race points by the end of the year, does that mean rafa ends as world #1 even if roger has more points in the entry rankings? :confused:

at end of year entry and race are the same.

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 02:56 AM
I for one have never understood the whole points and ranking stuff http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/confused0006.gif

smucav
08-15-2005, 03:00 AM
At the end of the year, the top 10 or 12 players in the race & the entry system will be the same. Below that, some lower ranked players will be higher in the entry sytem than they are in the race due to challenger results (that count in the entry system but not the race).

megadeth
08-15-2005, 03:07 AM
so in this case, even if rafa gets more points, roger (assuming he has more entry level points), would still be #1?

Skyward
08-15-2005, 03:11 AM
so in this case, even if rafa gets more points, roger (assuming he has more entry level points), would still be #1?

No. Both of them are ignoring challengers. ;)

smucav
08-15-2005, 03:20 AM
so in this case, even if rafa gets more points, roger (assuming he has more entry level points), would still be #1?As I said the top 10 or 15 players will be in the same position in both the entry system & the race at the end of the year. The race determines the year-end #1, #2, etc, but the top players will be in the same positions in both.

The race ends after the masters cup in November, while the entry system continues on only taking the last two weeks of the year off (50 out of 52 weeks of the year).

crouching
08-15-2005, 09:44 AM
At the end of the season, assuming that a player only plays at ATP Tour-level events and none at all of Challengers, Futures etc, the tournament results that go toward his Race points and his Entry points are EXACTLY THE SAME. In reality, the Top 10/12 players and most of the Top 40 players should be in this category.

At the very top of the rankings, e.g. Top 5-8, the year-end Race and the year-end Entry standings are completely identical. So it will be completely impossible, at this point, to have Nadal as the year-end Race No. 1 and Federer the year-end Entry No. 1.

This year, the only minor change in the Top 15 between the Race and the Entry year-end rankings might be Puerta, who has some Entry points from Challengers that will probably go into his Entry points total, but are, of course, not included in the Race total.

jenanun
08-15-2005, 10:15 AM
so now the race points between nadal and federer are very close,
there might be a chance that nadal overtake federer to become no.1 end of this year.

this has been discussed since nadal has won the french open, but not many people think that is going to happen because many of us dont believe nadal could produce good results in hard court

but now, situation is different.
nadal has won in montreal, making many of us to rethink this matter again.

although i know many people here still think nadal won because federer wasnt there (which is actually one of the factor, but didnt mean nadal cannot play well on hardcourt)... nadal is in fact a dangerous player on hardcourt, he could win against anybody, imo, roddick, safin, or even hewitt and federer...

federer needs to be very careful now, and fight to keep his no.1 position till end of year....

PamV
08-15-2005, 10:17 AM
During the course of the year you have to look at the Entry Rank points to know the true rankings, so why bother questioning that? The ATP race status doesn't reflect the true rankings until the very end of the year but by then isn't it just as easy to look at the Entry Rank list?

I don't see where the confusion is.

PamV
08-15-2005, 10:22 AM
so now the race points between nadal and federer are very close, there might be a chance that nadal overtake federer to become no.1 end of this year.



Yes, there is a chance for Nadal. The remaining tournaments are all important. It could be so close that we wouldn't know until the very end of the year. I wonder when the last time was that the #1 and #2 both had won this many tournaments and had this many points?

jenanun
08-15-2005, 10:44 AM
and when was the last time, that all TMS titles (6 of them so far) and GS (apart from AO) are shared by only 2 players!

nadal and federer are soooooooo good and ahead of all other players!
Safin, had done a great job in stealing one of those titles from them! haha!!!

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 10:50 AM
and when was the last time, that all TMS titles (6 of them so far) and GS (apart from AO) are shared by only 2 players!

nadal and federer are soooooooo good and ahead of all other players!
Safin, had done a great job in stealing one of those titles from them! haha!!!

:worship: The others need to step up big time

PamV
08-15-2005, 11:29 AM
and when was the last time, that all TMS titles (6 of them so far) and GS (apart from AO) are shared by only 2 players!

nadal and federer are soooooooo good and ahead of all other players!
Safin, had done a great job in stealing one of those titles from them! haha!!!

Well I would be interested to know when the last time was that both the #1 and #2 player had each won 8 tournaments including 3 TMS and 1 Major each by this time in the year? When ever did they both have this many points by this time......because so often there are discussions about comparing the rivalries and the depth of the field between then and now.

In Sampras time was there ever such a strong #2 player ? In 1995 Sampras only won 5 tournaments (including Wimby and USO). It's just interesting to think a player then wouldn't have to play constantly through out the year....he could concentrate on winning two majors and that alone would be enough.

jtipson
08-15-2005, 11:53 AM
In Sampras time was there ever such a strong #2 player ? In 1995 Sampras only won 5 tournaments (including Wimby and USO). It's just interesting to think a player then wouldn't have to play constantly through out the year....he could concentrate on winning two majors and that alone would be enough.

Well, Sampras couldn't really afford to win only 5 in 1995 (even though two of them were slams) and paid the price. Muster won 12 tournaments that year, and that enabled him to overtake Sampras for the top spot during 1996.

If Federer doesn't do well enough at Cincy/USO and during the autumn, he may well pay a similar price after the Australian Open 2006.

TheMightyFed
08-15-2005, 12:23 PM
We were expecting a great rivalry... here we are !!
Marat-Hewitt-Roddick might have some headaches these days with these 2 guys dominating the tour so much... And Nadal is not supposed to be "At peak" ! Imagine...

peteslamz
08-15-2005, 12:46 PM
Does the entry ranking system also resets back to zero at the beginning of the year like the atp race? I'm really confuse with these two

jtipson
08-15-2005, 12:52 PM
Does the entry ranking system also resets back to zero at the beginning of the year like the atp race? I'm really confuse with these two

No, the entry ranking holds the last 52 weeks' results.

peteslamz
08-15-2005, 01:13 PM
No, the entry ranking holds the last 52 weeks' results.


they said that at the end of the year, the order of the entry ranking would just be the same with the entry race. how could this happen if the entry ranking will consider the 52 wk's result whie as the entry race will not?

For intance, federer played really well last year therfore he had a huge gap in the entry ranking, while nadal had a mediocre/poor performace. how can nadal surpass or tie federer's entry ranking points if the system will still hold the last 52 wks results?

sorry...but im really really confuse :eek:

jenanun
08-15-2005, 01:17 PM
they said that at the end of the year, the order of the entry ranking would just be the same with the entry race. how could this happen if the entry ranking will consider the 52 wk's result whie as the entry race will not?


i m not expert in this area
but i think i can answer this question

coz end of year, that is, after 52 weeks,
all the points from the entry ranking will be the 52 weeks of that year
i.e. no points left from the previous year

that's why END OF YEAR, the entry ranking will be the same as race.....

jtipson
08-15-2005, 01:18 PM
they said that at the end of the year, the order of the entry ranking would just be the same with the entry race. how could this happen if the entry ranking will consider the 52 wk's result whie as the entry race will not?


At the end of the year, the race will contain results Jan to Dec (52 weeks) as well.


For intance, federer played really well last year therfore he had a huge gap in the entry ranking, while nadal had a mediocre/poor performace. how can nadal surpass or tie federer's entry ranking points if the system will still hold the last 52 wks results?

sorry...but im really really confuse :eek:

Yes, Federer does have a big gap in the entry rankings right now, but one by one the old results fall off and are replaced by this year's. So, say this year Federer loses in the first round of the USO, and Nadal wins; this means Roger loses 995 points and Rafa gains 965. That's almost a 2000 gap closed immediately.

peteslamz
08-15-2005, 01:32 PM
At the end of the year, the race will contain results Jan to Dec (52 weeks) as well.



Yes, Federer does have a big gap in the entry rankings right now, but one by one the old results fall off and are replaced by this year's. So, say this year Federer loses in the first round of the USO, and Nadal wins; this means Roger loses 995 points and Rafa gains 965. That's almost a 2000 gap closed immediately.

Hey, thanks jtipson, now i can sleep peacefully :)

Whistleway
08-15-2005, 02:47 PM
Why did we end up with 2 set of rankings :( Arrgh.

jenanun
08-15-2005, 02:48 PM
Why did we end up with 2 set of rankings :( Arrgh.

just in case we are not confused enough :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Beforehand
08-15-2005, 03:10 PM
It's really not that difficult...