Guillermo Coria overrated? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Guillermo Coria overrated?

Mistaflava
08-15-2005, 03:04 AM
Does anyone think he is kinda overrated? I mean he has played well at times and I am a big fan of his but when you are considered one of the world's top players, it is pretty unacceptable to go 1-7 versus TOP 10 PLAYERS in 2005.

Anyone else think that he doesn't do anything against top players? Still like the guy but he is a tad bit overatted in my opinion.

Thoughts?

Leo
08-15-2005, 03:16 AM
I don't like him but I still don't agree that he's overrated. It would be a shame if he never won the French Open because he is so damn brilliant on clay.

Mistaflava
08-15-2005, 03:19 AM
sure he is brilliant but being 1-7 versus TOP 10 PLAYERS is not worth of a TOP 10 position if you ask me.

Doctor Dance
08-15-2005, 03:20 AM
i agree, that is a bad statistic for coria

Mistaflava
08-15-2005, 03:23 AM
I could understand being 0-2 or maybe 2-3 or something like that but being 1-7 is ridiculous. Jose Acasuso and Ivan Ljubicic both have more wins against TOP 10 opponents this season.

Doctor Dance
08-15-2005, 03:24 AM
so who did he actually beat?

Mistaflava
08-15-2005, 03:29 AM
so who did he actually beat?


well outside of the TOP 10 it really doesn't matter. So of his 44 wins or whatever, only 1 came against a top caliber opponent. That means show me the money on his opponent next time he faces a TOP 10.

Doctor Dance
08-15-2005, 03:31 AM
well outside of the TOP 10 it really doesn't matter. So of his 44 wins or whatever, only 1 came against a top caliber opponent. That means show me the money on his opponent next time he faces a TOP 10.


i meant which player in the top 10 did he beat this year?

El Legenda
08-15-2005, 03:32 AM
Ljubicic has beat Nadal,Roddick and Agassi this year. Tojo at one point might of been top 10. Henman 2.

Mistaflava
08-15-2005, 03:37 AM
it doesn't matter who was TOP 10...we are talking about TOP 10 right now.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 03:49 AM
Yeah, the "what is your record against other top ten players" is another thing that is taken into consideration when determining the ATP rankings, along with "how many blow jobs have you given us recently?".

Skyward
08-15-2005, 03:53 AM
Yeah, the "what is your record against other top ten players" is another thing that is taken into consideration when determining the ATP rankings?".

It's not now. But there were quality points a few years ago.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 03:55 AM
Quality points are junk, imo ;)

Unless anybody expects Coria to be defeating Andy on grass, Hewitt on hardcourt, and Federer anywhere... then no, he's no overrated.

Dumb thread :p

Haute
08-15-2005, 04:00 AM
But isn't the point of the thread that if you're going to be a top 10 player you should be able to beat Andy on grass, Hewitt on hardcourt, and Federer anywhere? ;) :p

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 04:09 AM
I sincerely hope not but it does sort of look that way, no?

DanEd
08-15-2005, 04:12 AM
Go coria i will support u forever. i do not care if u are overrated or not, or if u will win roland garros or not :) :rocker:

Anna777
08-15-2005, 07:21 AM
Amen to that!
He's a great player!
Overrated? Naah.
Rock on Coria!!!! :worship:

bad gambler
08-15-2005, 07:30 AM
overrated is probably not the right word monsieur flava but I see where you are coming from

An interesting stat nonetheless

NYCtennisfan
08-15-2005, 07:53 AM
It's not now. But there were quality points a few years ago.

Federer would have huge quality points if they were still around.

I don't think Coria is overrated because nobody touts him as being at the very top of the game i.e. top 5 player.

Mistaflava
08-15-2005, 01:20 PM
Here are a few others with surprising records versus TOP 10 Opponents in 2005:

Roger Federer 12-2

Jose Acasuso 2-5

Carlos Moya 0-7

Fernando Gonzalez 0-8

Juan Carlos Ferrero 5-10

Rafa Nadal 9-3

Haute
08-15-2005, 06:45 PM
What's Roddick's record against top 10 players this year?

jenanun
08-15-2005, 08:24 PM
i dont think coria is overrated...
he can play good tennis!
but its true that he is not very consistent.....

David Kenzie
08-15-2005, 09:18 PM
it doesn't matter who was TOP 10...we are talking about TOP 10 right now.
It would make more sense to use the rankings at the time. That's what was used last year when Federer was unbeaten against TOP 10 players because he lost against Henman in Rotherdam who wasn't TOP 10 then.
But because the ATP use the Race Ranking everywhere on their website, that makes it difficult to figure out...

boliviana
08-15-2005, 09:24 PM
Coria's career has been so up and down . . . and last year has been tough for him to rebound from but he's played some great tennis this year considering he is coming back from surgery. He still hasn't found his rhythm in 2005 - emotional or otherwise out there - and has been over scheduled this summer which doesn't help.

There are a lot of players out there who are at times overrated and inconsistent . . . he is in good company . . . I think the men's game has a lot of really good talent these days but it gets lost in the hype of Nadal and the incredible % of injuries. If they all show (and are healthy), the USO should be amazing . .

And if you are going to talk about somebody being overrated, then Roddick has to go to the top of the list . . . yes he wins tournaments but who is in the field when he plays??

bavaria100
08-15-2005, 09:35 PM
What's Roddick's record against top 10 players this year?


I´m not sure, but I think it has to be 1-3 (2 losses against Hewitt and one loss to Roger). I don´t know if Moya was ranked in the top 10 at the time around the IW tourney. If he wasn´t, Andy´s record would be 0-3.

Sjengster
08-16-2005, 02:51 AM
Nope, he's not overrated - no-one has touted him as one of the very top players this year at least, considering he's still on the comeback trail. He hasn't played that many matches compared to other Top 10 players, nearly all his good results have been on clay and inevitably most of his wins en route to the finals of Monte Carlo and Rome were not over top players, considering that a lot of them were injured or inconsistent or are simply bad on clay. He's still pushed Nadal closer on clay than anyone else managed, but the way he lost those matches, especially in Rome, must have been a considerable mental blow. I'd expect him to beat a couple of Top 10ers on fast surfaces before the year is out, maybe they'll be his fellow compatriots (e.g. Gaudio in Cincy if the draw works out) but I still think he'll do it.

Beating a future Top 10 player when they're outside the Top 10 doesn't count - Nadal was 51 in the world when Ljubicic beat him in Doha, and it's amazing to think how rapidly he progressed after that defeat, since he was nowhere near the player then that he is now.

Mistaflava
08-17-2005, 07:08 PM
and once again he adds to my point...thanks Guille

lau
08-17-2005, 07:18 PM
http://www.pixpond.com/08/bostezo1.gif

Mistaflava
08-17-2005, 08:10 PM
What's Roddick's record against top 10 players this year?



Roddick is 2-3 versus current TOP 10 players

foul_dwimmerlaik
08-17-2005, 09:37 PM
Coria is a better all-court player then he's given credit for and I don't see why he's overrated. This year he didn't show top 10 results consistently, and he wasn't always in the top 10, even. So, what's the matter?

Carito_90
08-18-2005, 12:07 AM
Coria overrated because he hasn't beaten any top 10 player recently?
Then what are Puerta and Gaudio doing there? I dont see them beating any top ten player either yet no one complains about them being up there.
If you excuse me, Coria got closer than Federer ever got to beat Rafa on clay. That's quite an achievement if you ask me.

Let alone the fact that Coria has had a very bad year this year. I am hoping he'll have a better one next one.

Mistaflava
08-18-2005, 12:30 AM
Coria overrated because he hasn't beaten any top 10 player recently?
Then what are Puerta and Gaudio doing there? I dont see them beating any top ten player either yet no one complains about them being up there.
If you excuse me, Coria got closer than Federer ever got to beat Rafa on clay. That's quite an achievement if you ask me.

Let alone the fact that Coria has had a very bad year this year. I am hoping he'll have a better one next one.



you don't make any sense bro.


GASTON GAUDIO is 3-4 versus TOP 10 PLAYERS in 2005

MARIANO PUERTA is 1-5 versus TOP 10 PLAYERS in 2005

Sjengster
08-18-2005, 12:51 AM
Are you sure those stats aren't the wrong way round? Gaudio has one win over a Top 10 player this year, and that was a retirement by Davydenko in the semis of Stuttgart. Puerta, on the other hand, has had three straight victories this year against Moya, and I'm pretty sure the latter was still Top 10 on all those occasions.

They have to be Top 10 when the player beats them to count, not future or would-be Top 10ers.

PamV
08-18-2005, 02:31 AM
Does anyone think he is kinda overrated? I mean he has played well at times and I am a big fan of his but when you are considered one of the world's top players, it is pretty unacceptable to go 1-7 versus TOP 10 PLAYERS in 2005.

Anyone else think that he doesn't do anything against top players? Still like the guy but he is a tad bit overatted in my opinion.

Thoughts?

I liked him when he first started to rise. Then I began to notice him losing matches that he shouldn't lose....the first one was against Verkerk in the FO 2003 SF. After that there was the Miami 2004 Final when he was beating Roddick and then suddenly had a kidney stone attack. Then he had that weird FO 2004 final with Gaudio where he had the match in the bag and the began to cramp for no real apparent reason other than nerves after that.....he seemed to really go down hill.

He developed a shoulder problem after that and they say his serve has never been the same. Now that Nadal completely dominated the clay court season must make him feel very jealous. That could work to motivate him more, or it might just make him bitter.

Mistaflava
08-18-2005, 02:50 AM
Are you sure those stats aren't the wrong way round? Gaudio has one win over a Top 10 player this year, and that was a retirement by Davydenko in the semis of Stuttgart. Puerta, on the other hand, has had three straight victories this year against Moya, and I'm pretty sure the latter was still Top 10 on all those occasions.

They have to be Top 10 when the player beats them to count, not future or would-be Top 10ers.



once again, I am talking about CURRENT TOP 10 PLAYERS....not TOP 10 at the time.

Mistaflava
08-18-2005, 02:59 AM
taking the TOP 10 at the time is absolutely useless. The current TOP 10 is perfect because it reflects the players who have been the best of 2005.

ys
08-18-2005, 02:59 AM
He is not overrated.. he is just a claycourter..

Mistaflava
08-18-2005, 03:03 AM
He is not overrated.. he is just a claycourter..



who the hell has he beat on clay this year????

JeNn
08-18-2005, 03:04 AM
He is not overrated.. he is just a claycourter..

have to agree on this one. Coria had a very good clay season actually, he just happened to run into a better clay courter than himself in two big finals.

World Beater
08-18-2005, 03:06 AM
Coria overrated because he hasn't beaten any top 10 player recently?
Then what are Puerta and Gaudio doing there? I dont see them beating any top ten player either yet no one complains about them being up there.
If you excuse me, Coria got closer than Federer ever got to beat Rafa on clay. That's quite an achievement if you ask me.

Let alone the fact that Coria has had a very bad year this year. I am hoping he'll have a better one next one.

The thread starter is misleading but was it necessary to bash federer in order to prove your point. Coria has played nadal twice on clay. He got screwed once by nadal and beaten the other. Your analogy is not fair to federer since they have played only once.

PamV
08-18-2005, 03:16 AM
The thread starter is misleading but was it necessary to bash federer in order to prove your point. Coria has played nadal twice on clay. He got screwed once by nadal and beaten the other. Your analogy is not fair to federer since they have played only once.

That doesn't sound like bashing Federer to say Coria was closer to beating Nadal on clay. I think it's simply an attempt to say something nice about Coria. Coria should do better than Federer on clay against Nadal given his clay court experience.

World Beater
08-18-2005, 03:19 AM
That doesn't sound like bashing Federer to say Coria was closer to beating Nadal on clay. I think it's simply an attempt to say something nice about Coria. Coria should do better on clay against Nadal given his clay court experience.

Yes i guess you are right, but i don't think the analogy is fair since we have only seen them play on clay once. Federer may not win the next time he plays but maybe he will be as close as coria was.

PamV
08-18-2005, 03:48 AM
Yes i guess you are right, but i don't think the analogy is fair since we have only seen them play on clay once. Federer may not win the next time he plays but maybe he will be as close as coria was.

I could be wrong but I've never considered Federer up there as one of the best clay players.....so I don't think the analogy even matters.

Anyway I think the person was just trying to say the Coria is pretty good if he can do even better than Federer against Nadal on clay.

njnetswill
08-18-2005, 03:48 AM
His speed is not overrated. And nothing else about him is ever raved about.

PamV
08-18-2005, 03:51 AM
His speed is not overrated. And nothing else about him is ever raved about.

True he's still got the speed and some pretty great drop shots. I wonder about his mental state in matches? Is he less confident? I have a feeling if he did get a big tournament win he would start to play better and better.

Mistaflava
08-18-2005, 06:18 AM
he is not TOP 10 material...end of story

Caralimon
08-18-2005, 07:21 AM
he is not TOP 10 material...end of story

And he was the three in the world for a while.

He has 2 TMS, a Slam final, 5 TMS finals, and some other titles. Don't you think that's enough to at least achieve a top ten spot?

Not a favourite of mine, but give him some credit, he's done well.

oneandonlyhsn
08-18-2005, 07:38 AM
Coria forever :lol:

Action Jackson
08-18-2005, 09:11 AM
once again, I am talking about CURRENT TOP 10 PLAYERS....not TOP 10 at the time.

I don't like the weasel, but you just throw numbers there as your base argument. Sjengster is right it's top 10 at the time. Gaudio beat Nadal in Buenos Aires this year, he was not top 10 at the time in the Race or more importantly the Entry System, clearly flawed. Most of the top 10 have been top 10 for most of the year, but Nadal and Davydenko weren't there earlier in the year for example.

It's not accurate. Then again coming from you with some of the stuff you have said I am not surprised.

Carito_90
08-18-2005, 03:51 PM
That doesn't sound like bashing Federer to say Coria was closer to beating Nadal on clay. I think it's simply an attempt to say something nice about Coria. Coria should do better than Federer on clay against Nadal given his clay court experience.


Yes, thank you for saying what I was going to say.

I never meant to bash Federer in any way, and I am sorry if it sounded like that but I didn't. I just thought that taking the #1 tennis player in the world as a comparison to what Coria did was the right thing to do since he was the one expected to have more chances beating Rafa. Just my point of view.


Oh and, Mistaflava, could you name the players Gaudio and Puerta have beaten (from the Top 10) and lost to, and the ones Coria has to.
Because, as far as I know, it's not the same facing Roddick and Hewitt than Moya and Davydenko, lets say.

I don't like the weasel, but you just throw numbers there as your base argument. Sjengster is right it's top 10 at the time. Gaudio beat Nadal in Buenos Aires this year, he was not top 10 at the time in the Race or more importantly the Entry System, clearly flawed. Most of the top 10 have been top 10 for most of the year, but Nadal and Davydenko weren't there earlier in the year for example.

It's not accurate. Then again coming from you with some of the stuff you have said I am not surprised.

Agreed. (only that I do like, as you like to call it "the weasel" ;) )

Carito_90
08-18-2005, 03:52 PM
he is not TOP 10 material...end of story

If you're going to base facts on your opinion, then why even start a thread where obviously many will have other opinions? Just wondering you know.

Mistaflava
08-18-2005, 04:08 PM
If you're going to base facts on your opinion, then why even start a thread where obviously many will have other opinions? Just wondering you know.



you are entitled to your own opinion. I never said other TOP 10 players weren't also overrated. However, Guille just doesn't have it this year and should have dropped out of the TOP 10 by now. Much like France was #2 in the FIFA rankings for the longest time when they should be out of the TOP 10.

tangerine_dream
08-18-2005, 04:20 PM
I don't think Coria is overrated. The poor guy has had a run of bad luck and is in a bit of a slump right now. It doesn't help that Nadal :baby: is on the hottest of hot streaks right now.

fabolous
08-18-2005, 06:27 PM
he is not TOP 10 material...end of story
so tell me why is he ranked 5th in the race and 8th in the entry ranking? former number 3 of the world? yes, i admit, at the moment he has a bad stretch and is far away from his best, but numbers don't lie i think.

Action Jackson
08-19-2005, 06:43 AM
Coria is a very good player and as for being overrated, doesn't that depend on what criteria it's measured on. For the record I don't think he is, he is still one of the best players on clay, and he has made finals on all surfaces, can't have fluked his way to all of them. I don't see him as a # 1, but that's not the point, it's not like he is wasting talent.

Tennis_Passion
08-29-2005, 04:17 PM
That's the reason we need quality points in ATP too.

Action Jackson
08-29-2005, 04:20 PM
That's the reason we need quality points in ATP too.

Good to see you are not being serious with that post.

Tennis_Passion
08-29-2005, 04:33 PM
lol...why say that...i mean, that's the whole reason ATP ranking has sucked for the past decade...
Ya, it has sucked cuz of many things, but that sure is one of them:).

Jogy
08-29-2005, 04:36 PM
He is not been overrated last year, he was a very good player. But he is not so well this year. But he is not been overrated because nobody is speaking of him and it is quiet with him. A normally player only a bit outside of top 10 ranking. Nobody is giving him more hype than he deserve in moment and to his ranking.

Action Jackson
08-29-2005, 04:37 PM
lol...why say that...i mean, that's the whole reason ATP ranking has sucked for the past decade...
Ya, it has sucked cuz of many things, but that sure is one of them:).

You haven't thought about why I said that and as for the ATP ranking system. No, WTA arguments don't work on this board, and neither does the ranking system.

If you followed mens tennis then you'd know why quality points aren't awarded.

Action Jackson
08-30-2005, 10:06 AM
He is not been overrated last year, he was a very good player. But he is not so well this year. But he is not been overrated because nobody is speaking of him and it is quiet with him. A normally player only a bit outside of top 10 ranking. Nobody is giving him more hype than he deserve in moment and to his ranking.

Wow! we can agree on something.

federer express
08-30-2005, 12:59 PM
the only thgings coria doesn't have are greater physique and strength and at times a more pro-active approach to a match.

otherwise he has...
1. an underrated serve
2. an underrated forecourt game
3. sublime touch
4. great tactical sense
5. incredible movement
6. one of the strongest baseline games

so is he overrated...hmmmm :scratch: ...would have to say no

daze11
08-30-2005, 09:09 PM
you are entitled to your own opinion. I never said other TOP 10 players weren't also overrated. However, Guille just doesn't have it this year and should have dropped out of the TOP 10 by now. Much like France was #2 in the FIFA rankings for the longest time when they should be out of the TOP 10.These are all odd statements because he made the top 8 with only half a year results (this year AND last year), so apparently he IS top 10 material ...and in fact has yet NOT to be by year's end the last 3 years (this one included, since he WILL be)...

He beat Agassi top ten in straight sets and Safin top ten in straight sets in 2005. He lost at the majors to nalbandian (who creamed hewitt on grass IN australia, so he can have big wins) at the aussie, at the french to Davydenko who is ranked higher, and at wimbledon to roddick who is ranked higher. :scratch:

then he lost 7-6 in the 5th to nadal (who, after the match, admitted he would have lost 6-2 in the last set if the crowd had not spurred him on as they did) and won a tournament a few weeks ago.

He also didnt win more clay events early because he chose to try to get some wins on indoor carpet and expand his game, which was not particularly successful but was a brave choice based on becoming a better player long term.

If he were ranked in the top 3 and lost 1-7 against top ten (though agassi & safin = more than 1), ok, but if he is #6 and plays and falls to a bunch of top 5-ers like nadal, federer, roddick, & hewiitt, he is upholding his ranking and being a top tener. If you want to say he's not top FIVE material, that maybe true...we'll see at the end of the year if it is.