what are federer's chances of winning cincy? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

what are federer's chances of winning cincy?

megadeth
08-15-2005, 12:01 AM
he's had a way too long lay off and rafa just proved he can win on hard courts...

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 12:02 AM
he's had a way too long lay off and rafa just proved he can win on hard courts...

Who knows the jury is still out there

Beforehand
08-15-2005, 12:09 AM
I'm not the one who would want to take on Federer ANYWHERE, even at his worst tournament, when he's had a month to rest, and now realizes that he has to fight to stay #1.

Mistaflava
08-15-2005, 12:40 AM
both Andre and Rafa will purposely make early exits...that's my opinion

nobama
08-15-2005, 12:42 AM
Is Nadal going to play New Haven?

star
08-15-2005, 12:44 AM
Agassi might purposely go out, but I don't know that Rafa is to that point. Of course he may be beaten simply because he is tired or he doesn't have his mind on it after winning at Montreal. Anyway, Nadal should play at Cincy because the conditions there are more similar to the USO.

As for Federer's chances, I would say they are excellent. I can't see anyone beating him. It would be a huge upset for him to lose to anyone in this tournament.

El Legenda
08-15-2005, 12:49 AM
Federer vs Ljubicic 3rd round should be good...both might not make it untill 3rd :tape:

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 12:52 AM
Federer vs Ljubicic 3rd round should be good...both might not make it untill 3rd :tape:

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/sad/sad0147.gif

Anyway, the way Safin has been flying under the radar I wont be surprised if he takes this one

PamV
08-15-2005, 12:54 AM
he's had a way too long lay off and rafa just proved he can win on hard courts...

You never know until you see how all the players are doing. He took time off so he would end up with the foot pain like he had in AO. We could also wonder if Nadal will be somewhat tired from just playing Montreal. We have see how Hewitt and Roddick are also.

megadeth
08-15-2005, 12:54 AM
if your going to purposely lose, why join at all right?

i don't think andre would do that. either he joins and goes for the win or just pulls out like he always does when he needs rest.

PamV
08-15-2005, 12:57 AM
he's had a way too long lay off and rafa just proved he can win on hard courts...
It doesn't seem like proving that was such a feat in that he didn't need to play Hewitt or Roddick at their best. This time around we might see those two making deep into the tourney.

disturb3d
08-15-2005, 12:57 AM
Lleyton is the only man in the game, with a positive recent head-to-head over Nadal.
Let's hope he can take the little rodent out once again.

njnetswill
08-15-2005, 12:58 AM
The better question is who do you see Roger losing to? ;)

nobama
08-15-2005, 01:09 AM
According to Eurosport:

The world number one based himself in Dubai throughout the summer, working hard with his coach, Tony Roche, in the kind of heat that should make even the sometimes oppressive North American conditions a breeze.
I'm glad to see this was a working vacation. I looked up the Dubai weather for the past month and temps have averaged in the low 100's with lots of humidity. So the hot weather in Cincy shouldn't be a problem for Fed.

nobama
08-15-2005, 01:11 AM
As for Federer's chances, I would say they are excellent. I can't see anyone beating him. It would be a huge upset for him to lose to anyone in this tournament.Yes it would be, so he better not pull a Pandy and go out R1. :mad:

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 01:11 AM
According to Eurosport:


I'm glad to see this was a working vacation. I looked up the Dubai weather for the past month and temps have averaged in the low 100's with lots of humidity. So the hot weather in Cincy shouldn't be a problem for Fed.

:eek: Allez Fed, allez obviously he means business then :bounce:

sports freak
08-15-2005, 01:17 AM
99.9 per cent the other .1 per cent is for his opponent to turn up!!!!

1sun
08-15-2005, 01:20 AM
better than anyone else

nobama
08-15-2005, 01:22 AM
:eek: Allez Fed, allez obviously he means business then :bounce:Well if anyone thought Rogi was spending the last six weeks sipping fancy drinks on the beach with Mirka they're :cuckoo: I'd say he had maybe one or two weeks of rest with the misses and the rest was all business.

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 01:31 AM
Well if anyone thought Rogi was spending the last six weeks sipping fancy drinks on the beach with Mirka they're :cuckoo: I'd say he had maybe one or two weeks of rest with the misses and the rest was all business.

I was more so worried about how his feet would affect his training and the like. This explains why Roger looks burned :D

PinkFeatherBoa
08-15-2005, 01:58 AM
Do bears shit in the woods?

Honestly.

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 02:14 AM
Do bears shit in the woods?

Honestly.

:confused: Gasquet looks so good in your avatar

bad gambler
08-15-2005, 02:18 AM
he will win

PinkFeatherBoa
08-15-2005, 02:18 AM
:confused: Gasquet looks so good in your avatar

He sure does.

No need to be confused, I don't do sense.

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 02:23 AM
he will win

:wavey: I love you mate

oneandonlyhsn
08-15-2005, 02:25 AM
He sure does.

No need to be confused, I don't do sense.

I dont think you are a fan of Roger, but having followed Roger since 2001 Gasquet reminds me so much of Rogis teen years. If that is the case Gasquet will be shattering records soon, allez

lucashg
08-15-2005, 02:26 AM
:confused: Gasquet looks so good in your avatar

He does everywhere.

Cincinnati seems to his worst tournament, but it seems he's been working to build something to break this up, and he might just do. If he gets past the first round, I think he'll end up winning the tournament. So I'd say his chances are pretty good.

And I doubt Agassi and much less Nadal would lose on purpose. Agassi is the defending champion and though he can't afford playing back-to-back tournaments everytime anymore, he'll want to go deep and he knows he can, especially with Safin's conditions being unknown (so far). Nadal, he's fresh from winning Montreal and has once again nothing to lose.

I hope we can see Hewitt and Roddick at their best again.

lucashg
08-15-2005, 02:28 AM
I dont think you are a fan of Roger, but having followed Roger since 2001 Gasquet reminds me so much of Rogis teen years. If that is the case Gasquet will be shattering records soon, allez

Allez... oops, Amen to that! :p

PinkFeatherBoa
08-15-2005, 02:28 AM
I dont think you are a fan of Roger, but having followed Roger since 2001 Gasquet reminds me so much of Rogis teen years. If that is the case Gasquet will be shattering records soon, allez

No I'm not a Roger fan but I remember his early days. I hope Gasquet will follow in his footsteps.


and yes, what i meant by my 1st post was that Roger will win Cincy.

NYCtennisfan
08-15-2005, 02:38 AM
Pretty much zero. He should default his match against Blake, skip the US Open, think long and hard about where his career is and then just retire from the sport. :) :)

Daniel
08-15-2005, 02:41 AM
Roger will win Cincy :)

RogiFan88
08-15-2005, 04:27 AM
Who knows now that Rafa is dominating w 9 titles so far and Rogi only has 8... ;)

rofe
08-15-2005, 04:28 AM
Who knows now that Rafa is dominating w 9 titles so far and Rogi only has 8... ;)

Yeah Roger might as well not show up... ;)

RogiFan88
08-15-2005, 04:30 AM
Yep... in fact, Rogi s forget the rest of the season! ;)

El Legenda
08-15-2005, 04:31 AM
1 in a million shot.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 04:32 AM
Roger will win all of this matches 6-0 6-0. Nadal only won Montreal because it's played on clay and Roger wasn't there. If Roger was there, Nadal would have lost in the QF. 6-0 6-0 for Roger.

yanchr
08-15-2005, 04:33 AM
he's had a way too long lay off and rafa just proved he can win on hard courts...
All of a sudden people are asking sth ummm worthy...yeah good

rofe
08-15-2005, 04:36 AM
He does everywhere.

Cincinnati seems to his worst tournament, but it seems he's been working to build something to break this up, and he might just do. If he gets past the first round, I think he'll end up winning the tournament. So I'd say his chances are pretty good.

And I doubt Agassi and much less Nadal would lose on purpose. Agassi is the defending champion and though he can't afford playing back-to-back tournaments everytime anymore, he'll want to go deep and he knows he can, especially with Safin's conditions being unknown (so far). Nadal, he's fresh from winning Montreal and has once again nothing to lose.

I hope we can see Hewitt and Roddick at their best again.

As I said in a different thread (though it should have been in this one), he is a champion and has probably realized that the layoff has become a problem on two fronts - his #1 ranking is at stake and he needs practice before his defence of the US Open. Mentally, I would say, he will be fired up and the initial rustiness will fade away by the 3rd/4th game in the 1st set against Blake.

He will then have to most likely play Keifer but after seeing his match against Agassi, I am not worried about Keifer posing any problems. After that, he will only be challenged in the semi-finals.

jacobhiggins
08-15-2005, 04:39 AM
He will win it!

Billabong
08-15-2005, 05:00 AM
I hope he wins it:) GO Fed:)!

Ten_Isse_Fan
08-15-2005, 05:01 AM
Roger will win all of this matches 6-0 6-0. Nadal only won Montreal because it's played on clay and Roger wasn't there. If Roger was there, Nadal would have lost in the QF. 6-0 6-0 for Roger.
:haha: Good one ;)

Art&Soul
08-15-2005, 05:07 AM
Roger will win all of this matches 6-0 6-0. Nadal only won Montreal because it's played on clay and Roger wasn't there. If Roger was there, Nadal would have lost in the QF. 6-0 6-0 for Roger.

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: Boring as usual :cuckoo:

LaTenista
08-15-2005, 05:17 AM
Agassi might purposely go out, but I don't know that Rafa is to that point. Of course he may be beaten simply because he is tired or he doesn't have his mind on it after winning at Montreal. Anyway, Nadal should play at Cincy because the conditions there are more similar to the USO.

As for Federer's chances, I would say they are excellent. I can't see anyone beating him. It would be a huge upset for him to lose to anyone in this tournament.

Agassi has withdrawn. Rafa loves competition and hates losing, he won't go down without a fight and the last time he lost in straight sets was to Andreev on clay in Valencia 1st week of April.

Federer has won exactly 1 match in Cincy is his career, against a qualifier he had to save MPs against. I saw him play a practice set today, I would not be at all surprised if he lost 1st round again.

nobama
08-15-2005, 05:19 AM
Roger had this time off last year too. His schedule was no different last year except he played Gaastad and Montreal. Of course there was no Rafa nipping at his heels last year. But I think the last thing Roger should do is be worried about what Rafa or any other player is doing, or adjust his schedule because of another player. In fact when he plays in Cincy I hope he doesn't have Nadal on the brain and just focuses on the match at hand.

nobama
08-15-2005, 05:22 AM
Federer has won exactly 1 match in Cincy is his career, against a qualifier he had to save MPs against. I saw him play a practice set today, I would not be at all surprised if he lost 1st round again.Well that's not good, but I remember last year during the US Open his girlfriend said he was played horrible in practice. So hopefully that isn't a sign of how he'll fare tomorrow night.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 05:27 AM
:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: Boring as usual :cuckoo:
A stark contrast to your brilliant wit, of course.

nobama
08-15-2005, 05:29 AM
Roger will win all of this matches 6-0 6-0. Nadal only won Montreal because it's played on clay and Roger wasn't there. If Roger was there, Nadal would have lost in the QF. 6-0 6-0 for Roger.The paranoia and obsession with Roger continues for the Nadal brigade. God, I think I've seen more posts about Roger this week and he wasn't even playing. :lol: Since Nadal was seeded second, how could Roger have beaten him in the QF :scratch: Unless you're suggesting someone else would have, but then what does that have to do with Roger? In fact what does this thread have to do with Nadal and Montreal? :confused:

rofe
08-15-2005, 05:30 AM
Federer has won exactly 1 match in Cincy is his career, against a qualifier he had to save MPs against. I saw him play a practice set today, I would not be at all surprised if he lost 1st round again.

You really want Blake to win don't you? Why go about this circuitous way to say it? Just say you want Blake to win it and be done with it and nobody is going to critisize you for it. Fed can only win if it is a night match, Fed's game is sub-par in his practice sessions....oh please, gimme a break! :rolleyes:

rofe
08-15-2005, 05:33 AM
The paranoia and obsession with Roger continues for the Nadal brigade. God, I think I've seen more posts about Roger this week and he wasn't even playing. :lol: Since Nadal was seeded second, how could Roger have beaten him in the QF :scratch: Unless you're suggesting someone else would have, but then what does that have to do with Roger? In fact what does this thread have to do with Nadal and Montreal? :confused:

Boy am I glad I put Chloe on the ignore list.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 05:34 AM
The paranoia and obsession with Roger continues for the Nadal brigade. God, I think I've seen more posts about Roger this week and he wasn't even playing. :lol: Since Nadal was seeded second, how could Roger have beaten him in the QF :scratch: Unless you're suggesting someone else would have, but then what does that have to do with Roger? In fact what does this thread have to do with Nadal and Montreal? :confused:
Holy shit.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 05:35 AM
Boy am I glad I put Chloe on the ignore list.
So am I. The less posters taking that shit seriously the better.

Pea
08-15-2005, 05:43 AM
Fed coming back from injury.
Agassi pulled out.
Rafa might, just might be tired.
Marat is just back from surgery.
rodduck is in horrible form.
Hewitt might still be injured.

A small chance at best.

yanchr
08-15-2005, 05:44 AM
Federer has won exactly 1 match in Cincy is his career, against a qualifier he had to save MPs against. I saw him play a practice set today, I would not be at all surprised if he lost 1st round again.
His records in Cincy is really horrible, but that doesn't mean he won't do well here, considering the surface and the conditions are not that against him. The fact is that he can never do well in both Canada and Cincy, I believe. So this time, he is only playing Cincy, I don't see why he can't turn the records around given fresh body and normally good play. May takes him few games to get into the match spirit in the first round, but I'll be dropping my jaw if he actually loses tomorrow.

nobama
08-15-2005, 05:51 AM
So am I. The less posters taking that shit seriously the better.You know what, it's old and not funny anymore. So I will take it seriously enough to point out how silly it is. But I still think Rafa fans are as parinoid and obsessed with Roger as they think Roger fans are with Rafa. God forbid not everyone worships at the shrine of their boy wonder. And of course if they don't then obviously they don't think he has game or they think every surface he plays on is the new clay. :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 05:52 AM
Holy shit :o

nobama
08-15-2005, 05:54 AM
Boy am I glad I put Chloe on the ignore list.This smart ass crap is getting really old. I mean how many times do we have to hear about Montreal being the new clay. :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 05:55 AM
Until I stop finding it funny. Which is to say never!

Glad to see that I've hit a nerve. I suggest that you join rofe and the rest with no sense of humour who take things way too seriously and put me on ignore.

Toodles :cool:

I'm off to eat icecream, study for my exam, and wait for Montreal highlights on sports news :angel:

yanchr
08-15-2005, 05:56 AM
Holy shit :o
:yawn:

vincayou
08-15-2005, 06:48 AM
Roger will win all of this matches 6-0 6-0. Nadal only won Montreal because it's played on clay and Roger wasn't there. If Roger was there, Nadal would have lost in the QF. 6-0 6-0 for Roger.

I think you are one of this Nadal fan who regret the time where people were saying this kind of thing. It's over now, time to move on. (In addition, Rafa and Roger would have met in final in Montreal given their seeding)

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:23 AM
You know better!

vincayou
08-15-2005, 08:46 AM
Of course I do. :)

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 09:11 AM
I don't :(

Black Adam
08-15-2005, 12:51 PM
Yes it would be, so he better not pull a Pandy and go out R1. :mad:
Exactly that Montreal stunt got me real mad....he shouldn't even have bothered to show up :p
I expect probably Andy vs Lleyton in semis and the other half is totally unpredictable. ;)

RogiFan88
08-15-2005, 01:06 PM
...and what if Rafa had played Hamburg?? ;)

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 01:10 PM
You know what, it's old and not funny anymore. So I will take it seriously enough to point out how silly it is. But I still think Rafa fans are as parinoid and obsessed with Roger as they think Roger fans are with Rafa. God forbid not everyone worships at the shrine of their boy wonder.
replace everything that says rafa with roger and roger with rafa and you have fed fans to a tee!!! the same goes for them

PamV
08-15-2005, 01:12 PM
replace everything that says rafa with roger and roger with rafa and you have fed fans to a tee!!! the same goes for them

It seems normal that the two camps are both freaked out now because it's getting close. Isn't that what devoted sports fans are supposed act like?

skel1983
08-15-2005, 01:21 PM
I mean to say that the helf of the draw Federer is in is unbelievable, HE HAS LOST THREE MATCHES THIS YEAR!!!

i mean his record at this event is not great but, last year he had excuses winning back to back TMS is unlikely and it was not a big suprise, he could well go down in this event, but look at the stats i doubt it very much. He is no doubt the favourite and in my eyes will win.

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 01:27 PM
its just that fed fans are acting immmaturely. chloe says the things she says to rile people up and honest to god its funny but fed fans are behaving like yankee fans. the new persons guys have the right to gloat, red sox fans have the right to gloat and rafa fans have the right to gloat. yankee fans and fed fans should note that this may be the beginning of the end of an era and so should have class and quit whining

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 01:35 PM
its just that fed fans are acting immmaturely. chloe says the things she says to rile people up and honest to god its funny but fed fans are behaving like yankee fans. the new persons guys have the right to gloat, red sox fans have the right to gloat and rafa fans have the right to gloat. yankee fans and fed fans should note that this may be the beginning of the end of an era and so should have class and quit whining
When Nadal has won a grand slam, other than roland garros
come back and talk sense :o

skel1983
08-15-2005, 01:41 PM
could not agree more Escude, i mean half these guy's are writing Fed off which makes me laugh. Nadal is a class act don't get me wrong, but let's not go over the top, lets see how he fares against te master Federer, and with the ranking system now saying Federer No.1 Nadal No.2, they will only meet in final's and we all know Fed's record in them, Nadal is a talent but Federer is supreme a one off, if Federer meets Nadal either this week or at US Federer will beat him it won't be easy but he has to many tools for the young gun at this moment in time.

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 01:42 PM
When Nadal has won a grand slam, other than roland garros
come back and talk sense :o
dude your proving my point. a bad rep for that statement!! Seriously, tsk tsk tsk.
Fact is rafa fans should gloat their dude just won a hard court masters forever obliterating the claycourt dogma. fed fans should act with the class that they forever tout fed as having amd let the raf fans enjoy this!! but fed fans are pouting and whining. tsk, tsk

star
08-15-2005, 01:45 PM
I saw him [Federer] play a practice set today, I would not be at all surprised if he lost 1st round again.

That's interesting. :)

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 01:45 PM
I think this week, Fed has to deal with Blake then probably Kiefer and Ljubicic (who he's lost to 6 times between them) before even contemplating semis or final :o
but good luck anyways RogA!!

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 01:46 PM
Fact is rafa fans should gloat their dude just won a hard court masters forever obliterating the claycourt dogma. fed fans should act with the class that they forever tout fed as having amd let the raf fans enjoy this!! but fed fans are pouting and whining. tsk, tsk

He will never get rid of that claycourt dogma and that is naive to think that it will happen.

Some Fed fans feel threatened for some reason, but shouldn't, if Roger is good enough then he'll continually show his greatness and at the moment I don't see anything to be alarmed about.

Nadal is having a great year and his achievements are getting belittled, he can only do it on clay, when he has shown that this is not the case, with last weeks win and a final earlier in the year played on Miami clay, well not officially clay anyway.

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 01:51 PM
dude your proving my point. a bad rep for that statement!! Seriously, tsk tsk tsk.
Fact is rafa fans should gloat their dude just won a hard court masters forever obliterating the claycourt dogma. fed fans should act with the class that they forever tout fed as having amd let the raf fans enjoy this!! but fed fans are pouting and whining. tsk, tsk
first of all,correct me if im wrong but wasnt this thread asking what federer's chances of winning Cincinnati where? so why should there be gloating from Rafa fans in here as you put it?

secondly, ive barely seen any Fed fans in here whining too much just because Nadal won a TMS hardcourt event, and 99% of them couldnt give a shit.. personally im happy for Rafa and i wanna see him do as well on HC as he can.

and your a knob :o

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 01:53 PM
As for Fed it doesn't matter whether he'll win here or not. He has a Slam and a TMC to win and for some reason that would be more important than Cincinatti.

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 01:54 PM
threads get hijacked deal with it!!

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 01:56 PM
threads get hijacked deal with it!!
Yeah by clowns like you
and yet , your going around asking Federer fans to show class
unreal :o

nobama
08-15-2005, 02:05 PM
its just that fed fans are acting immmaturely. chloe says the things she says to rile people up and honest to god its funny but fed fans are behaving like yankee fans. the new persons guys have the right to gloat, red sox fans have the right to gloat and rafa fans have the right to gloat. yankee fans and fed fans should note that this may be the beginning of the end of an era and so should have class and quit whiningI'm sorry but you're just full of shit. If you think all of Rafa's fans here have class and never whine, then your :cuckoo: They're the ones recycling posts from Dirk from 5/6 months ago about how Nadal wouldn't do well on HC and making facetious comments about how Montreal is blue clay or whatever. OK, so Dirk (and some others) were proven wrong. Fine. He admitted he was wrong. Get over it already.

Castafiore
08-15-2005, 02:12 PM
Some Fed fans feel threatened for some reason, but shouldn't, if Roger is good enough then he'll continually show his greatness and at the moment I don't see anything to be alarmed about
Exactly, Federer is a class act and no doubt that he will show that class in the coming events. No need to feel threatened or alarmed about anything.
No idea how he is going to do in Cincy but ...I faith in the :cool: man.

Nadal is having a great year and his achievements are getting belittled, he can only do it on clay, when he has shown that this is not the case, with last weeks win and a final earlier in the year played on Miami clay, well not officially clay anyway.
Indeed.
Over the last months at least (but probably longer), Nadal's accomplishments have been belittled and minimized* and time and time again, Rafa has proven them wrong but still some of his critics come up with excuses to put him down. However, I think that the reaction on this particular board today from most of the fans of other players has been brilliant up until now, though. :)
Hey, the kid :baby: still may have a couple of things to prove and there is still room for improvement but at this point and without making projections to what might happen in the future, he has such an amazing year and he has shown such strength not just on a physical level but also on a psychological level and on top of that, he's a fast learner.
Can you really blame some of his fans for gloating just a bit when they had to suffer the endless "bumrooter", "dirtballer", "claycourt specialist...he won't be able to accomplish anything on any other surface" crap?

That said, there are hard core fans on both sides but in the end, I feel lucky to be able to witness the tennis of both Federer and Nadal (as well as many others).
Furthermore, have I missed something and is there some competition going about "which fans have the most class" and "which fans whine the most'?
Because that's crap as well. EVERY top player here has a variety of fans and it's no use pointing your :cuckoo: finger at anybody. Shit happens in a message board like this.

(* belittled and mimized by some people...so please no need to get defensive about that. OK?)

nobama
08-15-2005, 02:13 PM
Some Fed fans feel threatened for some reason, but shouldn't, if Roger is good enough then he'll continually show his greatness and at the moment I don't see anything to be alarmed about.

Nadal is having a great year and his achievements are getting belittled, he can only do it on clay, when he has shown that this is not the case, with last weeks win and a final earlier in the year played on Miami clay, well not officially clay anyway.Who exactly is belittling his achievements? The best Rafa fans can come up with is comments from 5/6 months ago by a few posters (one of whom has now admitted he was wrong). You say Fed fans feel threatened. Well I would say some Rafa fans are paranoid and obsessed about their boy getting the accolades he deserves. I mean if everybody doesn't bow down in adulation somehow that means they don't think Rafa can play or every hard court is "the new clay". That's ridiculous. Rafa's not my #1 guy, but that certainly doesn't mean I don't think he has game or is only good on clay or isn't a serious challenge to the rest of the tour.

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 02:17 PM
Indeed.
Over the last months at least (but probably longer), Nadal's accomplishments have been belittled and minimized* and time and time again, Rafa has proven them wrong but still some of his critics come up with excuses to put him down. However, I think that the reaction on this particular board today from most of the fans of other players has been brilliant up until now, though. :)
Hey, the kid :baby: still may have a couple of things to prove and there is still room for improvement but at this point and without making projections to what might happen in the future, he has such an amazing year and he has shown such strength not just on a physical level but also on a psychological level and on top of that, he's a fast learner.
Can you really blame some of his fans for gloating just a bit when they had to suffer the endless "bumrooter", "dirtballer", "claycourt specialist...he won't be able to accomplish anything on any other surface" crap?


watch out they just might come after you too!!

vincayou
08-15-2005, 02:17 PM
Not to mention that some of the Nadal fans don't dare predicting the victory of their boy, but easily point their finger at those who didn't believe in him.

star
08-15-2005, 02:18 PM
uhhh... Dirk's comment wasn't 5 or 6 months ago. Look it up.

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 02:21 PM
Well I would say some Rafa fans are paranoid and obsessed about their boy getting the accolades he deserves. I mean if everybody doesn't bow down in adulation
rafa is not my no1 guy either in fact in all honesty in the totem pole of the players whose games i appreciate fed is higher than nadal. i dont bow down in adulation at rafas achievements. but everyone who performs the way he performs should be feted. what is wrong with rafatards demanded that rafa gets the accolades he deserves!!

Castafiore
08-15-2005, 02:23 PM
You don't have to go back 5/6 months to find belittling comments (and no...I can't be bothered to search for them) about Rafa. You don't have to go back very far at all.

But, pointing your finger at the other side of this Rafa vs Roger debate (don't care on which side you stand...hell, some people stand on both sides as they like both...go figure) is useless because there are probably fanatics on both sides.


some of the Nadal fans don't dare predicting the victory of their boy, but easily point their finger at those who didn't believe in him.
Some of the Nadal fans? Could be true. I never make strong predictions about my favorites (superstition).
But other Nadal fans have. Deivid for example has always shown faith in the ability of Nadal and has always said that he will prove his doubters wrong but at the same time, he's very realistic about Rafa and does not get carried away by the hype.

So, if you are going to start a debate with "some of the Nadal fans"...that's useless because you can prove almost anything about fans of the other top players as well.
Don't generalize too much please. :)

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 02:24 PM
Who exactly is belittling his achievements? The best Rafa fans can come up with is comments from 5/6 months ago by a few posters (one of whom has now admitted he was wrong). You say Fed fans feel threatened. Well I would say some Rafa fans are paranoid and obsessed about their boy getting the accolades he deserves. I mean if everybody doesn't bow down in adulation somehow that means they don't think Rafa can play or every hard court is "the new clay". That's ridiculous. Rafa's not my #1 guy, but that certainly doesn't mean I don't think he has game or is only good on clay or isn't a serious challenge to the rest of the tour.

Are you actually serious? News for you I actually like Federer and have for ages, yes before he was doing well. The thing is I don't fawn over him and have to rub other fans noses in it about how good he is.

The clear facts are someone who is at their best on clay, even when they do well still gets labelled a claycourt specialist, implying they can't do it anywhere else. The only one who escaped that is Borg, it was apparent before and it's apparent now, yes this includes Rafa.

It's Roger that gets the adulation and all the superlatives, well his results and talent speak for themselves, well Rafa is playing very well at the moment, but "new clay" comments were made as a way of belittling Nadal in Miami and there will be others as well.

vincayou
08-15-2005, 02:27 PM
Deivid didn't believe that Nadal would win RG. I'll let chloe do the searching. :)

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 02:28 PM
Deivid didn't believe that Nadal would win RG. I'll let chloe do the searching. :)
so what exactly are you trying to prove that rafa fans are not true fans? :confused:

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 02:31 PM
rafa is not my no1 guy either in fact in all honesty in the totem pole of the players whose games i appreciate fed is higher than nadal. i dont bow down in adulation at rafas achievements. but everyone who performs the way he performs should be feted. what is wrong with rafatards demanded that rafa gets the accolades he deserves!!
Lets start a thread for the Pernforstards or Woodrufftards so we can give 1993 and 1997 montreal champions the accolades they deserve!!!
what about the Roberto Carreterotards for winning Hamburg one time as well!

Castafiore
08-15-2005, 02:31 PM
Deivid didn't believe that Nadal would win RG. I'll let chloe do the searching. :)
No offence but I don't understand why that's relevant.

Should he have been able to make a perfect prediction about Nadal this year then? Winning RG at your first try is quite something so can you blame Deivid for saying that he will be able to do great things but winning RG?
At the start of this year, when people would have predicted all these great results, most people would say that you were getting carried away.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 02:32 PM
Lets start a thread for the Pernforstards or Woodrufftards so we can give 1993 and 1997 montreal champions the accolades they deserve!!!
what about the Roberto Carreterotards for winning Hamburg one time as well!

There already is the TMS Bolter thread here somewhere :)

Carreterotard thems are fighting words.

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 02:34 PM
There already is the TMS Bolter thread here somewhere :)
I must find that thread!

World Beater
08-15-2005, 02:36 PM
It's Roger that gets the adulation and all the superlatives, well his results and talent speak for themselves, well Rafa is playing very well at the moment, but "new clay" comments were made as a way of belittling Nadal in Miami and there will be others as well.

When I read those comments, I took them in jest. Interesting that you are the one who takes things to heart, and then these apparent comments from "anti-nadal fans" fuel your adulation of nadal.

World Beater
08-15-2005, 02:38 PM
No offence but I don't understand why that's relevant.

Should he have been able to make a perfect prediction about Nadal this year then? Winning RG at your first try is quite something so can you blame Deivid for saying that he will be able to do great things but winning RG?
At the start of this year, when people would have predicted all these great results, most people would say that you were getting carried away.

The point though is, that dirk predicted rafa wouldn't do anything significant on HC. Deivid predicted he wouldnt win RG. Now do you understand the parallel the poster was trying to make? That possibly dirk and deivid underestimated nadal to a certain extent.

*M*
08-15-2005, 02:38 PM
Exactly, Federer is a class act and no doubt that he will show that class in the coming events. No need to feel threatened or alarmed about anything.
No idea how he is going to do in Cincy but ...I faith in the :cool: man.

Nadal is having a great year and his achievements are getting belittled, he can only do it on clay, when he has shown that this is not the case, with last weeks win and a final earlier in the year played on Miami clay, well not officially clay anyway. Indeed.
Over the last months at least (but probably longer), Nadal's accomplishments have been belittled and minimized* and time and time again, Rafa has proven them wrong but still some of his critics come up with excuses to put him down. However, I think that the reaction on this particular board today from most of the fans of other players has been brilliant up until now, though. :)
Hey, the kid :baby: still may have a couple of things to prove and there is still room for improvement but at this point and without making projections to what might happen in the future, he has such an amazing year and he has shown such strength not just on a physical level but also on a psychological level and on top of that, he's a fast learner.
Can you really blame some of his fans for gloating just a bit when they had to suffer the endless "bumrooter", "dirtballer", "claycourt specialist...he won't be able to accomplish anything on any other surface" crap?

That said, there are hard core fans on both sides but in the end, I feel lucky to be able to witness the tennis of both Federer and Nadal (as well as many others).
Furthermore, have I missed something and is there some competition going about "which fans have the most class" and "which fans whine the most'?
Because that's crap as well. EVERY top player here has a variety of fans and it's no use pointing your :cuckoo: finger at anybody. Shit happens in a message board like this.

(* belittled and mimized by some people...so please no need to get defensive about that. OK?)Excellent post. Thanks, Castafiore! :bigclap:

LaTenista
08-15-2005, 02:39 PM
Funny how every time Rafa steps out on court it changes to clay and every time Fed loses his fans have a whole bag full of excuses...the fact is they are both great champions who happen to be excelling around the same time so this so-called rivalry between them as seemly morphed into a rivalry between their fans. :sad:

My opinion on not being shocked if Roger losses tonight is based on my knowledge of his past record and watching him with my own two eyes the last few days (see my blog if you want details).

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 02:41 PM
Lets start a thread for the Pernforstards or Woodrufftards so we can give 1993 and 1997 montreal champions the accolades they deserve!!!
what about the Roberto Carreterotards for winning Hamburg one time as well!
so you are likening pernfor and woodruff and roberto to rafael nadal?

vincayou
08-15-2005, 02:41 PM
so what exactly are you trying to prove that rafa fans are not true fans? :confused:

I was answering to Castafiore.
What I'm trying to prove is that it's always easy to come back at old post making predictions (like "Nadal won't win anything past clay this year" - OK that was a rather silly prediction) when you don't play the game yourself.

Deivid is a true Rafa fan, but not very courageous in prediction (or a bit superstitious). :)
I mean, again, predicting the victory of Agassi in final and puting the avatar of Nadal asking to shut up after the game... But I think he's just superstitious.

Castafiore
08-15-2005, 02:42 PM
That possibly dirk and deivid underestimated nadal to a certain extent.
Fair enough. :)

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 02:42 PM
I was answering to Castafiore.
What I'm trying to prove is that it's always easy to come back at old post making predictions (like "Nadal won't win anything past clay this year" - OK that was a rather silly prediction) when you don't play the game yourself.

Deivid is a true Rafa fan, but not very courageous in prediction (or a bit superstitious). :)
I mean, again, predicting the victory of Agassi in final and puting the avatar of Nadal asking to shut up after the game... But I think he's just superstitious.
and his superstitions seem to be working!!

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 02:43 PM
so you are likening pernfor and woodruff and roberto to rafael nadal?
Off course not, dont be silly..
those 3 are ten times better than Rafa ever will be

:bolt:

vincayou
08-15-2005, 02:44 PM
The point though is, that dirk predicted rafa wouldn't do anything significant on HC. Deivid predicted he wouldnt win RG. Now do you understand the parallel the poster was trying to make? That possibly dirk and deivid underestimated nadal to a certain extent.

Exactly my point.

Nimomunz
08-15-2005, 02:44 PM
Off course not, dont be silly..
those 3 are ten times better than Rafa ever will be

:bolt:
:rolleyes:

PamV
08-15-2005, 02:45 PM
Can you really blame some of his fans for gloating just a bit when they had to suffer the endless "bumrooter", "dirtballer", "claycourt specialist...he won't be able to accomplish anything on any other surface" crap?

That said, there are hard core fans on both sides but in the end, I feel lucky to be able to witness the tennis of both Federer and Nadal (as well as many others).


There's nothing wrong with gloating over your favorite player at any time as far as I am concerned. I think the rivalry is making everyone more excitable because it's close and this is the end of the year and there are points up for grabs. Not all Fed fans are as nervous as me though. I tend to worry more, I admit that.

vincayou
08-15-2005, 02:46 PM
and his superstitions seem to be working!!

Sadly yes. :mad:

It's ok, I only dislike Nadal when I discuss with his true fans. He's good for the game.

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 02:46 PM
:rolleyes:
:lol: dont take the bait
:devil:

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 02:49 PM
When I read those comments, I took them in jest. Interesting that you are the one who takes things to heart, and then these apparent comments from "anti-nadal fans" fuel your adulation of nadal.

There's a difference between respect and adulation, and as for taking them to heart, yes like I'd do that on a message board, anymore theories from your psychoanalytical brain.

World Beater
08-15-2005, 02:54 PM
Can you really blame some of his fans for gloating just a bit when they had to suffer the endless "bumrooter", "dirtballer", "claycourt specialist...he won't be able to accomplish anything on any other surface" crap?

That said, there are hard core fans on both sides but in the end, I feel lucky to be able to witness the tennis of both Federer and Nadal (as well as many others).


Anytime a player has the success that nadal had on one surface, naturally questions will arise on how the player will perform on other surfaces. Given the disparity in the performances of Nadal on clay Vs. Other surfaces, I think it was justified to call him a claycourt specialist.

He has answered the question on HC in Montreal, so it is obvious people will have to revise their perception of Nadal's ability on other surfaces, the same way kuerten forced people to change their view of him after he won cincy and then the TMC later that year beating Andre and Pete back-to-back.

World Beater
08-15-2005, 02:57 PM
There's a difference between respect and adulation, and as for taking them to heart, yes like I'd do that on a message board, anymore theories from your psychoanalytical brain.

Judging by the tone of your posts, and your apparent appreciation of nadal, and the cause of it. I don't think it was presumptuous on my part to make that comment.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 03:01 PM
Judging by the tone of your posts, and your apparent appreciation of nadal, and the cause of it. I don't think it was presumptuous on my part to make that comment.

So just for you I should use more smilies to make it clearer in future? No, I won't do that. I explained my views on Nadal and why the rabid Federer fans have helped me like him even more and yes he will still be labelled a claycourt specialist no matter what he wins off that surface. Guga still has that tag.

World Beater
08-15-2005, 03:06 PM
So just for you I should use more smilies to make it clearer in future? No, I won't do that..

You say this implying as though you are joking.


I explained my views on Nadal and why the rabid Federer fans have helped me like him even more and yes he will still be labelled a claycourt specialist no matter what he wins off that surface. Guga still has that tag.

Then you say in a more serious tone, your explanation, which suggests you are not kidding. I'm not telepathic unfortunately. I can only read what you write, not what you mean, smilies or no smilies

BlackSilver
08-15-2005, 03:07 PM
Answering the original question.........good ones

A little comment on the current discussion.....the most impressive technical term used was "virtual clay" (one of the foolish things that I ever saw here on MTF)

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 03:09 PM
Answering the original question.........good ones

A little comment on the current discussion.....the most impressive technical term used was "virtual clay" (one of the foolish things that I ever saw here on MTF)

"virtual clay" hahahahaha

As for the thread question Cinci will just be some match practice for the US Open and as long as he is ready for that, then winning here isn't that important.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 03:12 PM
Well I don't think Federer is going to be tired...lol

Seriously I wouldn't be suprised if Federer storms back and wins this title but, I also wouldn't be suprised if he loses 3rd or 4th round because he hasn't had the match play.

A Nadal v. Federer final would be most intriguing.

Castafiore
08-15-2005, 03:15 PM
He has answered the question on HC in Montreal, so it is obvious people will have to revise their perception of Nadal's ability on other surfaces, the same way kuerten forced people to change their view of him after he won cincy and then the TMC later that year beating Andre and Pete back-to-back.
That's just it, world beater.

Keurten is still seen as just a 'dirtballer' by a group of people - a good dirtballer but what does that mean compared to other surfaces. I have seen enough articles in that tone and enough comments on various message boards in that sense.
People claiming that one slam on HC means more than 3 slam victories on clay. I have seen that comment only a couple of weeks ago.

Hey, you won't convince everybody that clay is a brilliant surface and that winning on it has as much worth as on the other surfaces but the prejudice against the surface exists in certain corners. We could see the evidence of that this year in some comments about Nadal's many victories on clay. ("yes, he is a good claycourter but I will only start rating him as a tennis player when he proves that he can win on other surfaces). Good to see that some people are changing their minds about him, though.


Erm...back to topic now perhaps? Federer? I have no insight into his 'foot problem' but I expect him to do very well here. He will be hungry for a victory again.

World Beater
08-15-2005, 03:22 PM
That's just it, world beater.

Keurten is still seen as just a 'dirtballer' by a group of people - a good dirtballer but what does that mean compared to other surfaces. I have seen enough articles in that tone and enough comments on various message boards in that sense.
People claiming that one slam on HC means more than 3 slam victories on clay. I have seen that comment only a couple of weeks ago.

Hey, you won't convince everybody that clay is a brilliant surface and that winning on it has as much worth as on the other surfaces but the prejudice against the surface exists in certain corners. We could see the evidence of that this year in some comments about Nadal.'s many victories on clay. "yes, he is a good claycourter but I will only start rating him as a tennis player when he proves that he can win on other surfaces). Good to see that some people are changing their minds about him, though.

.

Those "people" aren't worth conversing with if they don't understand the magnitude of what he achieved. Sure the TMC will always be in relative obscurity compared to the slams and rightly so, but I don't think any right-minded person can dispute his ability on other surfaces. Is he a claycourter? Yes, of course! He won three RG's and I don't see at as disrespectful to call him that because of what he achieved on one surface.

There are also grass specialists who surface once a year

Castafiore
08-15-2005, 03:29 PM
Those "people" aren't worth conversing with if they don't understand the magnitude of what he achieved.
Yes, you're right about that but it's still a shame to see the great accomplishments of a guy like Kuerten not get the recognition it deserves.

avocadoe
08-15-2005, 03:55 PM
That's interesting. :)
No, it is not :)
I was glad to hear he practiced in humid Dubai...and Gasquet is a bit like Roger before the big confidant breakthrough, lots of gmae not much confidence. Nadal is another pack of card though. I am a full Federer Fan and all that goes with that but I enjoy watching and admire Nadal. I think its Star who has noted it could be a good rivalry with winners for each. That' likely over the next few years. Still day by day it's Roger to win for me :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:
That's how I designate the number of wins he needs this week :wavey:

RogiFan88
08-15-2005, 05:46 PM
Sadly yes. :mad:

It's ok, I only dislike Nadal when I discuss with his true fans. He's good for the game.

I seem to remember people saying the very same about Feds not so long ago! :p ;)

nobama
08-15-2005, 07:22 PM
Are you actually serious? News for you I actually like Federer and have for ages, yes before he was doing well. The thing is I don't fawn over him and have to rub other fans noses in it about how good he is.Well I can only speak for myself, but I don't go around here rubbing people's noses in regards to how good Fed is. And it seems there's plenty of Rafa fans who post shit here with the sole intention of getting under the skin of Fed fans (see the who has more charisma thread). So they're not entirely innocent either.

The clear facts are someone who is at their best on clay, even when they do well still gets labelled a claycourt specialist, implying they can't do it anywhere else. The only one who escaped that is Borg, it was apparent before and it's apparent now, yes this includes Rafa.

It's Roger that gets the adulation and all the superlatives, well his results and talent speak for themselves, well Rafa is playing very well at the moment, but "new clay" comments were made as a way of belittling Nadal in Miami and there will be others as well.I have to disagree with you here. Maybe there are a few posters here who think Rafa's just a "clay court specialist", but I think that's few and far between. I saw some of his matches last week on ESPN and PMac and Brad Gilbert had plenty of superlatives to throw his way. Gilbert said Rafa's going to win a lot of HC titles and a lot of TMS titles. OK maybe they weren't saying this earlier in the year but the point is they are now. So the notion that Rafa will always be referred to as a "clay court specialist" is ridiculous. Sure Roger gets plenty of adulation thrown his way, but to suggest that Rafa some how isn't getting the respect he deserves I think is just not true.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:23 PM
Not to mention that some of the Nadal fans don't dare predicting the victory of their boy, but easily point their finger at those who didn't believe in him.

Yes, because not believing in him is stupid.

Deivid didn't believe that Nadal would win RG. I'll let chloe do the searching. :)

I didn't believe he'd win Roland Garros this year either. I thought Coria would :banana:

If you can't appreciate the difference between Dirk saying with great certainty that Nadal's year was OVER after clay and a couple Nadal fans not willing to jump the gun in April and say that RG was Rafa's for the taking... there isn't a whole lot I can do to help you out, bud. :wavey:

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:24 PM
so what exactly are you trying to prove that rafa fans are not true fans? :confused:

Um, I think he's trying to prove that sometimes Nadal fans are wrong too. A stunning observation!

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:26 PM
The point though is, that dirk predicted rafa wouldn't do anything significant on HC. Deivid predicted he wouldnt win RG. Now do you understand the parallel the poster was trying to make? That possibly dirk and deivid underestimated nadal to a certain extent.

Deivid's comments were not mean spirited and were not posted out of bias/dislike for a particular player.

Those of you who can not see the difference here and fail to understand why I bumped up Dirk's stupid comments (and I am not sorry, and I would totally do it again. It was fucking hilarious, made even more hilarious by you whiners)... please, please, just do us all a big favour and put me on ignore or something, like rofe and the other fools did.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 07:26 PM
Um, I think he's trying to prove that sometimes Nadal fans are wrong too. A stunning observation!

What are Chloes chances of winning Fumus's heart?

Very good. :)

ys
08-15-2005, 07:30 PM
Reasonable chance. If he gets to the finals he'll win it, whether it is Hewitt or Roddick he plays.

He has a couple of tricky rounds at the start of the tournament, but generally his half of the draw is quite soft.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:30 PM
Oh, I forgot to tell you. I'm going to USO qualies now - it's a long story. Slims my chances, I think ;)

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 07:31 PM
Well I can only speak for myself, but I don't go around here rubbing people's noses in regards to how good Fed is. And it seems there's plenty of Rafa fans who post shit here with the sole intention of getting under the skin of Fed fans (see the who has more charisma thread). So they're not entirely innocent either.

There are some Fed fans that do it and will continue to do it, then again I know which are the ones that don't and they are fine with me. Have you missed the point? Here it is, there are rabid fans in every fanbase, the larger the amount of fans, the chances are that there will be more within that group.

Have you ever thought that there is a reason for that reaction at all? No, I am not trying to say who is better and the like, and I don't care.


I have to disagree with you here. Maybe there are a few posters here who think Rafa's just a "clay court specialist", but I think that's few and far between. I saw some of his matches last week on ESPN and PMac and Brad Gilbert had plenty of superlatives to throw his way. Gilbert said Rafa's going to win a lot of HC titles and a lot of TMS titles. OK maybe they weren't saying this earlier in the year but the point is they are now. So the notion that Rafa will always be referred to as a "clay court specialist" is ridiculous. Sure Roger gets plenty of adulation thrown his way, but to suggest that Rafa some how isn't getting the respect he deserves I think is just not true.

I am sorry Gilbert is one of the biggest bandwagon jumpers around, when he sticks to calling tennis, then that's his gig. Actually the notion is not ridiculous, why is this so? When did you start watching tennis? Guga and Corretja won TMS events on hardcourts and the TMC, Ferrero made a US Open final, Wilander won Slams on other surfaces are still labelled claycourt specialists.

Yes, Miami is the new clay and he only won Montreal cause Federer wasn't here. He is just hiding by playing summer events on clay, yes that's respectful.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 07:32 PM
Oh, I forgot to tell you. I'm going to USO qualies now - it's a long story. Slims my chances, I think ;)


Are you only going to the qualies *gasp*? :o :sad: :eek:

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:33 PM
Are you only going to the qualies *gasp*? :o :sad: :eek:
Um, I think so. It's a money thing and a timing thing. And if I don't go on vacation again soon, I might explode.

But don't worry, we can always have 4am coffee on my stop over in Albany ;)

tangerine_dream
08-15-2005, 07:34 PM
uhhh... Dirk's comment wasn't 5 or 6 months ago. Look it up.
Wasn't Dirk the same knob who stated with the same authority that Lleyton Hewitt will NEVER get back in the Top Five ever again? :lol:

Dirk's wrong about many things.

nobama
08-15-2005, 07:36 PM
Funny how every time Rafa steps out on court it changes to clay and every time Fed loses his fans have a whole bag full of excuses...I wonder how many more times we'll have to hear this....you all are sounding like a broken record. :roll: Since you said "every time Rafa steps out on court" perhaps you could tell me who in the last week referred to "blue clay" or that "Montreal is the new clay". I don't know why Rafa fans (or ant-Fed fans are so obsessed with this). As far as excuses for Fed...my guess is no matter what Fed fans say it will be considered an excuse. I remember after he lost at RG and some here said he didn't play well then they were knocked because others felt that was a slight against Rafa (i.e., Rafa only won because Fed wasn't his best). I don't know what fans were supposed to say - lie and say Fed played great when he clearly didn't?

Fumus
08-15-2005, 07:36 PM
Um, I think so. It's a money thing and a timing thing. And if I don't go on vacation again soon, I might explode.

But don't worry, we can always have 4am coffee on my stop over in Albany ;)

Are you serious, you must!! I am down for 4am coffee. :)

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:36 PM
I try not to make bold predictions about players that I don't like. That's why. I know that I'll probably be a bit biased in making them and if I'm not careful, come up with a few ridiculous ones.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:37 PM
Are you serious, you must!! I am down for 4am coffee. :)
Well, I do have a ticket to Albany in the pack, so yeah I really do ahve to stop there. lol

Fumus
08-15-2005, 07:38 PM
Wasn't Dirk the same knob who stated with the same authority that Lleyton Hewitt will NEVER get back in the Top Five ever again? :lol:

Dirk's wrong about many things.

Yes Dirk also said Safin was a meathead, a brainless oaf, he couldn't beat Roger, Roger is too clever for that and that he saw Roger winning in an easy three sets in the AO semis. :o

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 07:38 PM
Well, I do have a ticket to Albany in the pack, so yeah I really do ahve to stop there. lol

Wooo a rendezvous at 4am. The best thing ever to happen in Albany.

How funny is that I am anti-Federer.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 07:39 PM
Well, I do have a ticket to Albany in the pack, so yeah I really do ahve to stop there. lol

haha...at 4am? When? lol :)

Fumus
08-15-2005, 07:40 PM
Wooo a rendezvous at 4am. The best ever to happen in Albany.

How funny is that I am anti-Federer.

Don't worry George, I would never hit on your girl. Strictly plutonic.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 07:41 PM
haha...at 4am? When? lol :)
Well, it probably wont' be 4am. I'll PM you the details later.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 07:42 PM
Well, it probably wont' be 4am. I'll PM you the details later.


Sweet! :)

ys
08-15-2005, 07:43 PM
Don't worry George, I would never hit on your girl. Strictly plutonic.

"Plutonic" is better than "veneric".. Definitely.. :lol:

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 07:43 PM
Don't worry George, I would never hit on your girl. Strictly plutonic.

She's more likely to hit me, then again just watch the weasel jokes.

nobama
08-15-2005, 07:44 PM
I am sorry Gilbert is one of the biggest bandwagon jumpers around, when he sticks to calling tennis, then that's his gig. Actually the notion is not ridiculous, why is this so? When did you start watching tennis? Guga and Corretja won TMS events on hardcourts and the TMC, Ferrero made a US Open final, Wilander won Slams on other surfaces are still labelled claycourt specialists.

Yes, Miami is the new clay and he only won Montreal cause Federer wasn't here. He is just hiding by playing summer events on clay, yes that's respectful.I'm talking about Rafa, not anyone else. I'm sorry but if Rafa consistently wins on HC and overtakes Fed in the rankings he will not still be called a claycourt specialist. Anyway I don't know why your so obsessed with it. Who cares? The bottom line is Rafa is getting the respect he deserves whether you want to believe it or not.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 07:46 PM
I'm talking about Rafa, not anyone else. I'm sorry but if Rafa consistently wins on HC and overtakes Fed in the rankings he will not still be called a claycourt specialist. Anyway I don't know why your so obsessed with it. Who cares? The bottom line is Rafa is getting the respect he deserves whether you want to believe it or not.

Well you don't get it, even if he performs well and wins tMS events or Slams on surfaces other than clay, he'll still be called a claycourt specialist. I am far from obsessed just stating the obvious.

ys
08-15-2005, 07:55 PM
Well you don't get it, even if he performs well and wins tMS events or Slams on surfaces other than clay, he'll still be called a claycourt specialist.

Forget about TMS. It is only Slams that matters. Kuerten won TMS on hardcourts and even Masters. He is a claycourt specialist. Nadal won TMS on hardcourts. He is still a claycourter. Ferrero and Moya made Slam finals on hardcourts. They are not claycourters. To break out of "claycourter" brand, a player has to do well on other surfaces in Slams. No amount of TMS or Masters won't substitute Slam success.

Kafelnikov won 3 grass tournaments. More than Agassi. More than Henman. Kafelnikov is nobody on grass, as he has never done well at W.

Slams. Nothing else.

Corey Feldman
08-15-2005, 07:56 PM
Don't worry George, I would never hit on your girl. Strictly plutonic.
I thought rebecca/Chloe was a dyke???
;)

Whistleway
08-15-2005, 07:57 PM
Bravo to mirkaland !!! Amazing defense :)

RogiFan88
08-15-2005, 07:57 PM
Chloe, say Hi to your new Frenchie, Mahut, for me! ;)

Fumus
08-15-2005, 08:01 PM
She's more likely to hit me, then again just watch the weasel jokes.

Yea, I have to take easy on Mr.Coria when she's around. No jokes about how he tried to slide on the grass at wimbly.

Action Jackson
08-15-2005, 08:06 PM
Forget about TMS. It is only Slams that matters. Kuerten won TMS on hardcourts and even Masters. He is a claycourt specialist. Nadal won TMS on hardcourts. He is still a claycourter. Ferrero and Moya made Slam finals on hardcourts. They are not claycourters. To break out of "claycourter" brand, a player has to do well on other surfaces in Slams. No amount of TMS or Masters won't substitute Slam success.

Just another double standard, but that's nothing new. People will go on about players who do well on fastcourts and get one result on clay, then they can play on it, but it's not the same the other way around.

The Masters is the 5th best event whether you like it or not and it does count much more so than TMS events. No amount of excuses you will use to justify players like Kuerten and Corretja winning it changes and even if Rafa won it one day, you'll have an excuse ready.

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 08:08 PM
Chloe, say Hi to your new Frenchie, Mahut, for me! ;)
I fear that if I go within ten feet of him he might throw a racquet at me :o

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 08:09 PM
I thought rebecca/Chloe was a dyke???
;)
Yeah?

Fumus
08-15-2005, 08:10 PM
I fear that if I go within ten feet of him he might throw a racquet at me :o

Haha...or throw a kiss...ya never know.

Mahut isn't that sound you make when someone punches you in the stomach...like *punch* "mahut!" "wow that hurt" ;)

Chloe le Bopper
08-15-2005, 08:13 PM
There will be no mockary of French names!

Mathieu is the sound one makes when sneezing

ys
08-15-2005, 08:13 PM
Just another double standard, but that's nothing new. People will go on about players who do well on fastcourts and get one result on clay, then they can play on it, but it's not the same the other way around.

Oh really? Example? Sampras? Sampras won a TMS on clay. And what do they say about his clay ability? Who else?

The Masters is the 5th best event whether you like it or not and it does count much more so than TMS events. No amount of excuses you will use to justify players like Kuerten and Corretja winning it changes and even if Rafa won it one day, you'll have an excuse ready.

There is nothing more important for players than Slams. If a player can play on a surface, he should be able to do well on that surface when it matters, when the field is the strongest, and when all opponents are at their peak form of the surface season. Many players can play a snake in the grass on their weaker surface when their opponents are not fully motivated or absent. Everyone is motivated at Slams. Everyone tries to make it to Slams. People routinely miss TMS and all other warmups.

Sjengster
08-15-2005, 08:19 PM
There will be no mockary of French names!

Mathieu is the sound one makes when sneezing

Even that doesn't excuse the nickname "Paul-Henri God Bless You"...

Fumus
08-15-2005, 08:33 PM
Even that doesn't excuse the nickname "Paul-Henri God Bless You"...

What does moss do? It Grosjean things.

Sjengster
08-15-2005, 08:37 PM
What do you do if your girlfriend's getting on your nerves? Boutter.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 08:41 PM
What do you do if your girlfriend's getting on your nerves? Boutter.

What happens when you don't properly oil your engine and you redline it?

Well you might blow a Gasquet.(Then again some posters at MTF might want to do this anyways)

Sjengster
08-15-2005, 08:47 PM
What do you sometimes need to have a little bit of...?

Patience.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 08:49 PM
I can't have patience when everytime I order something I have to pay Monfils.

Sjengster
08-15-2005, 08:52 PM
What animal is the close relation of the mythical snake-headed beast, the Hydra?

The Llodra.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 09:11 PM
What animal is the close relation of the mythical snake-headed beast, the Hydra?

The Llodra.

That reminds me of the new hybrid substance that NASA came up with that mixed clay and cement..they are calling it...Clement.

*M*
08-15-2005, 09:48 PM
That reminds me of the new hybrid substance that NASA came up with that mixed clay and cement..they are calling it...Clement.Sounds like the solution to this clay court specialist/non-specialist problem. Get this Clement stuff and sprinkle a little grass seed in it, then use it as the surface all year long.

Fumus
08-15-2005, 10:00 PM
Sounds like the solution to this clay court specialist/non-specialist problem. Get this Clement stuff and sprinkle a little grass seed in it, then use it as the surface all year long.

Good idea! Next people are fighting about surfaces I will say, I Noah better way.

Deivid23
08-16-2005, 04:40 AM
What a funny thread I had overlooked... :devil:

Not to mention that some of the Nadal fans don't dare predicting the victory of their boy, but easily point their finger at those who didn't believe in him.
Deivid is a true Rafa fan, but not very courageous in prediction (or a bit superstitious). :)
I mean, again, predicting the victory of Agassi in final and puting the avatar of Nadal asking to shut up after the game... But I think he's just superstitious.

I put my avatar and started to make fun of those who gave Nadalīs season by finished before the final, so your argument is not valid. Mine was valid enough whatever the final outcome was. At the same time you seem to have good memory,but somehow Iīve missed where youīve written that I said Nadal would do well in this summer season, or that Nadal would outgun Federer in RG SF, not fair imo. ;)

And yes I predicted Agassi to win the final cause I didnīt like what I saw from Nadal against Mathieu (uncommon nerves and ball never deep enough) and Agassi looked pretty sharp at hitting the ball against Rusedski, nothing to do with superstitions or not being corageous enough. I didnīt think Nadal was gonna win RG at his first attempt nor having such an amazing year. Maybe u canīt see it but those wrong predictions have little to do with ruling him out from achieving those goals as Dirk stubbornly made a lot of times in the past. As Chloe said, I canīt do much about if you canīt get this.

The point though is, that dirk predicted rafa wouldn't do anything significant on HC. Deivid predicted he wouldnt win RG. Now do you understand the parallel the poster was trying to make? That possibly dirk and deivid underestimated nadal to a certain extent.

Same goes to you, I donīt think too many people here have more faith in Nadalīs abilities than me and Iīve been telling this when he had 0 ATP titles and soon enough in this board, but yes I thought he wouldnīt do this well so early, so maybe itīs a form of understimation in a technical way but it hardly can be considered that way in practice cause Iīve been an awful lot more optimistic than pessimistic concerning Nadalīs chances throughout his career, I think.

lucashg
08-16-2005, 05:00 AM
Sjengster and Fumus - :lol:

Sounds like the solution to this clay court specialist/non-specialist problem. Get this Clement stuff and sprinkle a little grass seed in it, then use it as the surface all year long.

LOL. I agree with you, don't forget the partial roof over all courts :p .

What happens when you don't properly oil your engine and you redline it?

Well you might blow a Gasquet.(Then again some posters at MTF might want to do this anyways)

SOME? :devil: :drool:

oneandonlyhsn
08-16-2005, 05:00 AM
People leave the poor kid alone :mad: I am still trying to get his energy back up after all the partying we did last night :devil:

lucashg
08-16-2005, 05:10 AM
Just another double standard, but that's nothing new. People will go on about players who do well on fastcourts and get one result on clay, then they can play on it, but it's not the same the other way around.

You gotta be kidding. Federer has won Hamburg 3x, has been to the final of Rome, and has reached the SFs of Roland Garros and up to this day you hear people doubting his capacity to play on clay and win the FO. I think that's a double-standard.

The Masters is the 5th best event whether you like it or not and it does count much more so than TMS events. No amount of excuses you will use to justify players like Kuerten and Corretja winning it changes and even if Rafa won it one day, you'll have an excuse ready.

I agree with you here, but there has been excuses and there will be, unfortunately. I'd like to think that players like Kuerten, Nadal, Moya and Ferrero are called claycourters just because their best surface is clay and only because of that. The rest that such term imply I'll ignore.

The same goes for clay-snobs who bad mouth hardcourters or grasscourters at "their" events, depending on the player who's being judged of course.

World Beater
08-16-2005, 05:20 AM
Same goes to you, I donīt think too many people here have more faith in Nadalīs abilities than me and Iīve been telling this when he had 0 ATP titles and soon enough in this board, but yes I thought he wouldnīt do this well so early, so maybe itīs a form of understimation in a technical way but it hardly can be considered that way in practice cause Iīve been an awful lot more optimistic than pessimistic concerning Nadalīs chances throughout his career, I think.

Don't put words in my mouth. You have no evidence of me discussing my predictions of how rafa will do.

In my opinion your prediction of Rafa not winnning RG was more ludicrous that Dirk's prediction that he will do nothing significant this year on HC. Nadal boasted the best record on clay, and had won 2 TMS shields before entering RG.

So, no I don't think Dirk was being stubborn in his predictions. There was minimal evidence of Rafa's potential on HC at the time. Even you admitted that you were surprised at all his success this year.

World Beater
08-16-2005, 05:33 AM
Deivid's comments were not mean spirited and were not posted out of bias/dislike for a particular player.
.

Can you be sure that Dirk's comments were motivated by an intense dislike of Nadal? I didn't read his prediction, but know of it. With that aside, I don't see why it is so horrible to predict that Nadal would not have such early success on surfaces other than clay. Unless I am missing something about Dirk's prediction, this is what I gathered from it.


Those of you who can not see the difference here and fail to understand why I bumped up Dirk's stupid comments (and I am not sorry, and I would totally do it again. It was fucking hilarious, made even more hilarious by you whiners)... please, please, just do us all a big favour and put me on ignore or something, like rofe and the other fools did.

People understand why you did it, but people may not approve of it. I personally took it in jest though

Do me a favor and find a single post wherein ,I, the "fool" whined about nadal or federer in any way? If you do, you will get a special prize.

Deivid23
08-16-2005, 05:36 AM
Don't put words in my mouth. You have no evidence of me discussing my predictions of how rafa will do.

I donīt get what you r trying to say here :shrug:

In my opinion your prediction of Rafa not winnning RG was more ludicrous that Dirk's prediction that he will do nothing significant this year on HC. Nadal boasted the best record on clay, and had won 2 TMS shields before entering RG..

Well nothing much I can do about if you think so, "blind is the one that doesnīt want to see"

So, no I don't think Dirk was being stubborn in his predictions. There was minimal evidence of Rafa's potential on HC at the time. Even you admitted that you were surprised at all his success this year.

Yes he was stubborn but that is not always a bad thing, as I said I like people who take the challenge and make predictions and people who are convinced of their ideas. Iīve made a lot of them here, some of them were right, other were wrong as itīs logical, but concerning Nadal (just because I know him pretty well) Iīve hitted a lot more than missed and you can check it by yourself. If you think there was minimal evidence of Nadalīs potential on HC take what you want: Either watch more tennis to know the players better or buy a new pair of glasses.


PD: Again: Saying I didnīt think Nadal was gonna win RG in his first attempt is not the same than ruling him out, which I never did (itīs pretty obvious that the best claycourter of the season has a decent shot at winning it moreover when Iīve already said many months ago in this board I knew "Nadal was gonna be a mountain to high to climb for everyone on clay one day"). Saying "Nadalīs year is basically over after clay season" is different stuff and a clear sign of lack of knowledge about this playerīs capability.

oneandonlyhsn
08-16-2005, 05:47 AM
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/fighting/fighting0061.gif

World Beater
08-16-2005, 06:05 AM
I donīt get what you r trying to say here :shrug:
.

You said this :


Same goes to you
.

It doesn't go to me. I never made any predictions about nadal. So i don't understand why you said that.


Well nothing much I can do about if you think so, "blind is the one that doesnīt want to see"
.

It's nice to know you have to use proverbs to back up your arguments, since you have nothing left.


Its really quite simple. Predicting that Nadal would win a masters on HC with a field consisting of top players is much harder than predicting Nadal would win RG. So saying that Nadal will not win anything for the rest of the year, is really not so harsh, is it? Is it wrong? Yes, in hindsight. But you were just as wrong with the RG prediction. You said he wouldn't win it. This translates to writing him off for the title. Comprende?


Yes he was stubborn but that is not always a bad thing, as I said I like people who take the challenge and make predictions and people who are convinced of their ideas. Iīve made a lot of them here, some of them were right, other were wrong as itīs logical, but concerning Nadal (just because I know him pretty well) Iīve hitted a lot more than missed and you can check it by yourself.
.

Fair enough. But the fact that you made right predictions in the past still doesn't change the fact that you were wrong now.


If you think there was minimal evidence of Nadalīs potential on HC take what you want: Either watch more tennis to know the players better or buy a new pair of glasses.
.

Why should I think otherwise? You haven't given me any reasons other than to watch more tennis, for which Nadal, as I said didn't do anything significant on HC. So, really there was nothing to watch. The other was to buy a new pair of glasses. I like this option better because it seems the more plausible of the two. Why don't you reccomend me some?


PD: Again: Saying I didnīt think Nadal was gonna win RG in his first attempt is not the same than ruling him out, which I never did (itīs pretty obvious that the best claycourter of the season has a decent shot at winning it moreover when Iīve already said many months ago in this board I knew "Nadal was gonna be a mountain to high to climb for everyone on clay one day"). Saying "Nadalīs year is basically over after clay season" is different stuff and a clear sign of lack of knowledge about this playerīs capability.

Would you have predicted he would win a TMS?

megadeth
08-16-2005, 06:09 AM
hmmmm... (enters the room with heated argument)

i thought this was a roger thread and not rafa?

(exits the room)...

Chloe le Bopper
08-16-2005, 06:39 AM
People understand why you did it, but people may not approve of it. I personally took it in jest though

I don't think people understood why I did it, judging by these responses. Mind you, I think that Dirk understands why I did it, and he is who it was for. So all is well.

Do me a favor and find a single post wherein ,I, the "fool" whined about nadal or federer in any way? If you do, you will get a special prize.

Will it have chocolate on it? :lick:

World Beater
08-16-2005, 06:47 AM
I don't think people understood why I did it, judging by these responses. Mind you, I think that Dirk understands why I did it, and he is who it was for. So all is well.



Will it have chocolate on it? :lick:

No, will vanilla suffice? :p

Chloe le Bopper
08-16-2005, 07:23 AM
Vanilla will do. I actually prefer vanilla icing anyways.

Deivid23
08-16-2005, 10:01 AM
You said this :



It doesn't go to me. I never made any predictions about nadal. So i don't understand why you said that.

That went bc you also wrote about a wrong prediction by me, it was pretty clear to my eyes I was referring to that.

It's nice to know you have to use proverbs to back up your arguments, since you have nothing left.

I canīt help you with that, mate. If you still think Dirk ruling out Nadal in HCs is a better approach than saying I didnīt think Nadal would win RG in his first attempt while I wasnīt ruling him out at all, even proverbs wonīt help you with that, "de donde no hay no se puede sacar" ;)


Its really quite simple. Predicting that Nadal would win a masters on HC with a field consisting of top players is much harder than predicting Nadal would win RG. So saying that Nadal will not win anything for the rest of the year, is really not so harsh, is it? Is it wrong? Yes, in hindsight. But you were just as wrong with the RG prediction. You said he wouldn't win it. This translates to writing him off for the title. Comprende?

As I said before I canīt teach you to use your brain properly, Iīll paste this again:

PD: Again: Saying I didnīt think Nadal was gonna win RG in his first attempt is not the same than ruling him out, which I never did (itīs pretty obvious that the best claycourter of the season has a decent shot at winning it moreover when Iīve already said many months ago in this board I knew "Nadal was gonna be a mountain to high to climb for everyone on clay one day"). Saying "Nadalīs year is basically over after clay season" is different stuff and a clear sign of lack of knowledge about this playerīs capability.


Fair enough. But the fact that you made right predictions in the past still doesn't change the fact that you were wrong now.

Sure, thatīs the only part of your post that actually makes sense to me. Congrats.

Why should I think otherwise? You haven't given me any reasons other than to watch more tennis, for which Nadal, as I said didn't do anything significant on HC. So, really there was nothing to watch. The other was to buy a new pair of glasses. I like this option better because it seems the more plausible of the two. Why don't you reccomend me some?

If you had seen him playing in Miami in March and specially against Hewitt, Chela and Younes in these "summer hardcourts" past years, you would have seen a big potential out there despite his losses. Equation was simple: If he can make a tough match to top players on hc being 1/4 of the player heīs nowadays, he will probably be a big threat now. Simple and effectively correct. I recommend you to watch more tennis and know the players better, that will do fine for you.

Would you have predicted he would win a TMS?

In fact I said I was generous when saying I couldnīt see more than 6-7 players that could beat him and predicted he would go deep in at least one TMS of these 2 and in the US Open, that was a realisitic prediction and I donīt think Iīll miss it, you can check it if u want ;)

Shabazza
08-16-2005, 12:26 PM
hmmmm... (enters the room with heated argument)

i thought this was a roger thread and not rafa?

(exits the room)...
where's the difference??
one doesn't go without the other :rolleyes:

Fumus
08-16-2005, 02:50 PM
Ohhh man, this thread was great lets go back to the French player last name puns.