i want this to be be rafas tournament [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

i want this to be be rafas tournament

Rex
08-11-2005, 11:56 AM
roddicks out- federers not playin- i want rafa to win this.

PamV
08-11-2005, 12:02 PM
I'd like to see Grosjean take out Nadal. Grosjean has a better serve and a nicer style overall.

Castafiore
08-11-2005, 12:22 PM
You want just about anybody to take out Nadal, regardless of style or serve, PamV.

I really don't understand what's not to love about Nadal's way of playing tennis. It's not smooth and elegant perhaps, but variety in the sport is great. Nadal's game is fierce, passionate, quick with a mixture of power and subtleness (those well hidden dropshots for example),... He's a smart player with an amazing mixture of shots coming from impossible angles and sometimes in full speed and not forgetting that beautiful topspin. What's not to love? :shrug:
Ah well, you can not argue about taste, I guess.


Anyway, I'd love this to happen too, Rex but Rafa still has a long road ahead of him with lots of players who can make life difficult for him.
Suppose - just suppose - he does get it: how quickly do you think will you see threads like "having one title on hardcourt does not count - he had no competition at all really - ..."? But, let's not get ahead of the game.
Like I said, I'd love it if he could take this title but I'm not counting on it either and that's OK too. He's still so young and his year has already been so amazing. Everything we will get now, will be like the icing on a cake.

1sun
08-11-2005, 12:34 PM
if nadal doesnt win this tourny, it would be bad form, he has one piss of a draw, all top players out, roddick,nabs, gasuet removed from his path. if he doesnt win then he def is just a claycourter.

Bilbo
08-11-2005, 12:39 PM
nadal here, nadal there

then you wonder when tennis gets boring

to say that, go agassi :D

LaTenista
08-11-2005, 12:41 PM
I want Rafa to do well at Montreal but I'd rather he win Cincy (my hometown tourney) :D

connectolove
08-11-2005, 12:56 PM
ME TOO. I want Rafa to win this one.

GO RAFAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PamV
08-11-2005, 01:00 PM
You want just about anybody to take out Nadal, regardless of style or serve, PamV.

I really don't understand what's not to love about Nadal's way of playing tennis.

I find Nadal obnoxious. His tennis is ugly. He's getting a cake walk tournament with no top guys to contend with. As for what's not to like about his tennis style....how about the way he always hits leaning backward off of his back foot? How about the way he does a side shuffle fist pump over practically nothing. What's the difference bewteen Nadal's antics and Hewitt's lawnmower man moves?

Grosjean is a nice guy...subtle and understated. Go Grosjean!

LaTenista
08-11-2005, 01:07 PM
Are we forgetting the gamesmanship from Grosjean at RG and other occasions? :scratch:

adelaide
08-11-2005, 01:13 PM
he's getting a cake walk tournament with no top guys to contend with.
....that's not exactly his fault lol

that said, I think Agassi also has a good chance of winning thist title. I do want Rafael to win though. :D

~EMiLiTA~
08-11-2005, 01:35 PM
I'd love to see Rafa win this tournament...especially to shut up his critics who say he can only play on clay, which is bullshit. He reached the Miami final and very nearly beat Roger there...that was just lack of experience...if he were in the same position again now I think he'd have beaten him. Also having watched him live against Hewitt at the AO where he also played extremely well, I can definitely say he is capable of winning tournaments on hard and hopefully other surfaces as well in the future. This is definitely his tournament to lose...it's being handed to him on a silver platter the way the other seeds are falling. Vamos Rafa!!

DanEd
08-11-2005, 01:44 PM
I would like gaudio or puerta could win the tournaments but since that is impossible i want rafa to win ;)

avocadoe
08-11-2005, 01:47 PM
I see nadal taking this oen. And then, I'm hoping its all Roger at Cincy. He might be rusty but it should fall away before he has to play Nadal. I want him to beat Nadal in Cincy and again at the USO, if its necessary. I want him to beat Safin, too when he returns. I want the year back on course. Of course, I am a Roger fan.

1sun
08-11-2005, 01:53 PM
Are we forgetting the gamesmanship from Grosjean at RG and other occasions? :scratch:
wot r u talking about? grosjean didnt do any gamesmanship, it was the crowd, grosjean actualy helped cool it down. get ur facts right.

Dirk
08-11-2005, 01:56 PM
No Grosjean kept backing away and would not fucking serve and start the match. He was a rat there so Latenista is right.

1sun
08-11-2005, 01:58 PM
No Grosjean kept backing away and would not fucking serve and start the match. He was a rat there so Latenista is right.
bcoz of a bad call. he had a right to protest it.

lau
08-11-2005, 02:02 PM
bcoz of a bad call. he had a right to protest it.
Not according to the rules... The player should stop the point if he thinks the ball is out. Once is played, the chair umpired is not allowed to go to check the mark ;) (on clay, of course)

Clara Bow
08-11-2005, 02:12 PM
it was the crowd, grosjean actualy helped cool it down.

After about 10 minutes of the booing and jeering. I like Seb but I think he could have behaved better in those circumstances.

bcoz of a bad call. he had a right to protest it.

For about ten minutes while play is disrupted and the other player (who did nothing wrong) is trying to serve but can't because the crowd is so loud and the angry player is frequently turning his back? I think that is when it switches from just a protest to something that is too much and too disruptive. It was mostly the crowd but I have to agree with our commentators who said that Seb was trying to egg them on for a bit. Again, I like Seb but was not too happy with his behavior in these circumstances.

Anyway- back to the topic of this thread. I really hope that Nadal can take the title. (I'm not saying he will- just hope he does.) It would be nice to have the RG winner win a big hard court title since more and more people are talking about the stratification of different winners on the slower and faster surfaces.

Would love to see an Agassi-Nadal final.

lau
08-11-2005, 02:12 PM
I see nadal taking this oen. And then, I'm hoping its all Roger at Cincy . He might be rusty but it should fall away before he has to play Nadal. I want him to beat Nadal in Cincy and again at the USO , if its necessary. I want him to beat Safin , too when he returns. I want the year back on course. Of course, I am a Roger fan.
:haha: This is one of the most sincere posts I read recently. :yeah:

Experimentee
08-11-2005, 03:06 PM
Nadal does not have a cakewalk to the title. If he played Agassi, I would favour Andre in that one. If Hrbaty gets some form going he could have a good run too and possibly win, as long as he doesnt face anyone hes the favourite against.

rofe
08-11-2005, 03:12 PM
I think Nadal has a very good chance to reach the finals if he gets past Seb. I see the X-man, PHM and Davydenko winning their respective matches going by their form in this tournament. X-man and PHM are just not consistent enough to pose a problem. Davydenko can if he wins against PHM so atleast a semi-final spot is assured.

tennyfan
08-11-2005, 03:13 PM
Nothing against Nadal, but he has already won his fair share of tournaments this year. It would be nice to see someone else, other than Rafa and Rogie, win for a change. Otherwise, tennis gets boring for me.

croat123
08-11-2005, 03:24 PM
nadal = yawn

i just can't stand players who will stand 20 feet behind their baseline and who win 90% of their points on their opponents' errors

Leo
08-11-2005, 03:25 PM
I love this thread.

Leo
08-11-2005, 03:27 PM
Nadal hasn't proven anything yet. Grosjean could beat him in the next round. So could Malisse, Mathieu, or Davydenko. It's not like his form is stellar. It's way too early to be putting him in the finals with Agassi.

Three cheers for Davydenko/Ferrero to decide who gets to wear the dorky cowboy hat. :D :D :D

yanchr
08-11-2005, 03:39 PM
Watching this man play tennis simply makes my heart pain.

Castafiore
08-11-2005, 04:16 PM
:rolleyes:

RonE
08-11-2005, 04:38 PM
Rafa Shmafa :p

oneandonlyhsn
08-11-2005, 04:39 PM
nadal = yawn

i just can't stand players who will stand 20 feet behind their baseline and who win 90% of their points on their opponents' errors

:zzz: Judging from your statement you obviously dont watch Rafas matches. I wont argue with people who say that they dont like hist style of play, or whatever but saying that he waits out errors from his opponents is just bull. He plays a very aggressive game and goes for winners almost from the 2nd ball because he aims mainly for the tees.

Since Fed aint here, RAFA all the way Vamossssssssssssssssss http://bestsmileys.com/cheering/4.gif

wcr
08-12-2005, 12:22 AM
nadal = yawn

i just can't stand players who will stand 20 feet behind their baseline and who win 90% of their points on their opponents' errors


Aaaaaah but that's how most tennis matches are won.

wcr
08-12-2005, 12:22 AM
If he played Agassi, I would favour Andre in that one.

Why?

yomike
08-12-2005, 08:47 AM
If Nadal wins I'll become a fan but I dont see him beating agassi.

PamV
08-12-2005, 10:59 AM
Nadal does not have a cakewalk to the title. If he played Agassi, I would favour Andre in that one. If Hrbaty gets some form going he could have a good run too and possibly win, as long as he doesnt face anyone hes the favourite against.

Well, I would say it's a cakewalk compared to what one usually faces at a TMS event. Normally a player has to face other guys in the top 5 before the final. The last few tournaments Nadal has never had to face Safin, Roddick or Hewitt. I know that's not his fault....but it's just odd luck that he has, that those guys have fallen off their form precisely when Nadal is rising, which makes it easier for him.

Conversely when Roger was rising to the top he had to continually beat nemesis opponents and guys in the 5. When Roger was facing Hewitt, Nalbandian, Agassi, Safin and Roddick they were playing well and were a true challenge.

PamV
08-12-2005, 11:03 AM
nadal = yawn

i just can't stand players who will stand 20 feet behind their baseline and who win 90% of their points on their opponents' errors

When Nadal plays he looks like he's in pain and everything is a tremendous effort. It's just depressing to watch that style. On the other hand, Roger is clever and makes incredible shots as if they were no big deal......what fun! :worship:

PamV
08-12-2005, 11:05 AM
I think Nadal has a very good chance to reach the finals if he gets past Seb. I see the X-man, PHM and Davydenko winning their respective matches going by their form in this tournament. X-man and PHM are just not consistent enough to pose a problem. Davydenko can if he wins against PHM so atleast a semi-final spot is assured.

Right, I don't think PHM or Beck are that consistent either. What about Puerta's chances?

PamV
08-12-2005, 11:11 AM
No Grosjean kept backing away and would not fucking serve and start the match. He was a rat there so Latenista is right.

I am sure Grosjean was upset over the call and probably wanted to let off steam by waiting out the crowd's yelling. The chair could have done something if he wanted......it was not up to Grosjean to control the crowd.

Nadal is so much more in his prime than Grosjean and Grosjean was never great on clay any way. Was there ever a real danger Nadal was going to loose that match to Grosjean ....NO.

Puschkin
08-12-2005, 11:17 AM
The last few tournaments Nadal has never had to face Safin, Roddick or Hewitt. I know that's not his fault....but it's just odd luck that he has, that those guys have fallen off their form precisely when Nadal is rising, which makes it easier for him.


I did not accept the argument that Roger had it easier to win his three Wimby titles than Pete because the opposition was claimed to be weaker now. So, no double standards here either. Nadal can only play against those players which the draw puts up against him and it is not his fault that some other top-players are either out of form, sick or preferred to skip the tourney.

~EMiLiTA~
08-12-2005, 11:24 AM
nadal = yawn

i just can't stand players who will stand 20 feet behind their baseline and who win 90% of their points on their opponents' errors

oh come on :rolleyes:

Castafiore
08-12-2005, 11:35 AM
When Nadal plays he looks like he's in pain and everything is a tremendous effort. It's just depressing to watch that style. On the other hand, Roger is clever and makes incredible shots as if they were no big deal......what fun! :worship:
Oh, stop being such a drama queen.

What's the point of your Nadal obsession anyway? Others like his style of tennis. Deal with it. Stop whining about it please.

Rex
08-12-2005, 12:27 PM
yeh , nadal has something most players dont, the ability to make his opponant play one more shot, thats why players make errorrs. And hey! lets not forget he is only 19, and is one of the bigger player on tour. So maturing is something he doesnt need to do, he can just mature as a tennis player and not physically.

Experimentee
08-12-2005, 01:33 PM
Why?

Andre in his best form is a better player on hardcourt than Nadal at his best.

RonE
08-12-2005, 01:54 PM
Andre in his best form is a better player on hardcourt than Nadal at his best.
There is truth to that in that Andre has accomplished a lot more on the surface than Nadal has to date but don't forget it's all about the match-ups.

Adversly, one could say the same about Federer being better at his prime on hardcourts yet even when they played on hard piggy beat him once and came within two points of doing it a second time.

It will boil down to two things if they do meet:

1.) Will Andre be able to deal with the akward spin and hit through the ball with enough power and precision on a consistent basis to take Nadal out of his comfort zone?

2.) If the answer to the first question is 'yes', will Andre have the stamina required to keep hitting with the same ferocity and precision taking into account that the pig will run down everything and can hit really good shots from defensive positions turning defense into offence.

In short, Agassi will have to play a lot of defense as well as offence and cover quite a lot of ground. If he can do it and maintain a high level over the course of the match then he will come out as the winner. However, if he has too many dips and slip-ups piggy will be all over him.

oneandonlyhsn
08-12-2005, 01:59 PM
Okay totally dumb question but why is Rafa called Piggy :confused:

Skyward
08-12-2005, 02:17 PM
Normally a player has to face other guys in the top 5 before the final. The last few tournaments Nadal has never had to face Safin, Roddick or Hewitt. I know that's not his fault....but it's just odd luck that he has, that those guys have fallen off their form precisely when Nadal is rising, which makes it easier for him.

Conversely when Roger was rising to the top he had to continually beat nemesis opponents and guys in the 5. When Roger was facing Hewitt, Nalbandian, Agassi, Safin and Roddick they were playing well and were a true challenge.


:bs: Nadal's rise happened on clay where he had to beat everyone and their brother, except for Safin, lol.

Nimomunz
08-12-2005, 02:55 PM
When Nadal plays he looks like he's in pain and everything is a tremendous effort. It's just depressing to watch that style. On the other hand, Roger is clever and makes incredible shots as if they were no big deal......what fun! :worship:
:rolleyes: this is an absolutely moronic statement!

LoveFifteen
08-12-2005, 03:03 PM
When Nadal plays he looks like he's in pain and everything is a tremendous effort. It's just depressing to watch that style. On the other hand, Roger is clever and makes incredible shots as if they were no big deal......what fun! :worship:

This is one of the stupidest posts I've ever read.

wcr
08-12-2005, 04:24 PM
I did not accept the argument that Roger had it easier to win his three Wimby titles than Pete because the opposition was claimed to be weaker now. So, no double standards here either. Nadal can only play against those players which the draw puts up against him and it is not his fault that some other top-players are either out of form, sick or preferred to skip the tourney.


No players are responsible for the luck of the draw. Yet, reviewing the draw is a reasonable exercise when looking at the effort it took to win any title.

There was an interesting thread on another board that meticulously examined the titles won by Rod Laver. I was under the impression, having never seen Laver or his peers play, that he was the GTPE because of his two grand slams. When I learned about the competitors, who, so I learned "owned him," who didn't actually compete in those events, it changed the way I viewed his success. Laver's history is even more complicated due to the amateur v. professional status issues related to grand slam play at that time. I'm sure there are seasoned posters here who can add to this.

The examination of the competition during any given event is fair game and a worthwhile exercise. It has changed my views about who might actually be the GTPE. It doesn't mean the titles aren't valid, it just might mean that lady luck had a hand in it.

wcr
08-12-2005, 04:47 PM
Andre in his best form is a better player on hardcourt than Nadal at his best.

Andre's 35 years old. Nadal is 19 years old. Given the state of the draw, this would be Nadal's match, not to mention tournament, to lose.

PamV
08-13-2005, 12:02 AM
Andre's 35 years old. Nadal is 19 years old. Given the state of the draw, this would be Nadal's match, not to mention tournament, to lose.

I agree. Despite Andre's abilities he isn't as fast as he used to be. I wonder how often his hip problem flares up.

PamV
08-13-2005, 12:08 AM
:bs: Nadal's rise happened on clay where he had to beat everyone and their brother, except for Safin, lol.

Of course but the clay field is not that strong right now. It's not like Nadal is having to face the likes of Kuerten in his prime. Most of the clay court players are shorter and unable to overpower Nadal. Coria and JCF fell off of their prime quite quickly due to injury or lack of confidence.

Skyward
08-13-2005, 12:14 AM
Of course but the clay field is not that strong right now. It's not like Nadal is having to face the likes of Kuerten in his prime. Most of the clay court players are shorter and unable to overpower Nadal. Coria and JCF fell off of their prime quite quickly due to injury or lack of confidence.

When someone dominates, the field usually looks weak. We've heard this about grass court specialists too.

Power is not the greatest weapon on clay, otherwise Roddick would be the king on the surface.

PamV
08-13-2005, 12:18 AM
This is one of the stupidest posts I've ever read.

What is pleasant about constant grunting and akward strokes? Hey....if someone tries to say that EVERYONE likes Nadal, I have to point out that's not true. Later someone asks what's not to like.....so I am forced to explain. Has Nadal ever looked like he enjoys the game? I've never seen him when he wasn't sweating and scowling.

PamV
08-13-2005, 12:22 AM
When someone dominates, the field usually looks weak. We've heard this about grass court specialists too.

That can be true....but you have to examine the weapons of the other players. Among the grass court players there are many big servers who can dominate with their serve alone.

Regardless, I just want to see Nadal face some top opponents back to back in some tournament eventually. He's been lucky that Safin and Hewitt are out and Roddick has decided he likes being ranked #5.

adelaide
08-13-2005, 12:24 AM
Has Nadal ever looked like he enjoys the game? I've never seen him when he wasn't sweating and scowling.
yes he has. quite often actually. sure he sweats and he grunts, but that doesn't mean he's not enjoying his game. that doesn't make sense.

PamV
08-13-2005, 12:30 AM
yes he has. quite often actually. sure he sweats and he grunts, but that doesn't mean he's not enjoying his game. that doesn't make sense.

Yes, it makes sense. If one player is so dominate then he can afford not to grind all the time and look like he's going into combat. He can just enjoy the moment and let the tennis flow. Well....at least Roger can do that.

You say that Nadal has appeared to enjoy tennis while he's playing....in other words he might have a faint smile and hit a few nice easy shots instead of always hitting hard. That's great....I guess I've never seen it because I don't watch all his matches. The media seem to always publish the same kind of caveman faced pics of him that conjure up a grimacing pained performance. Ok....I know it's not his fault what image they try to portray for him.

adelaide
08-13-2005, 12:36 AM
Yes, it makes sense. If one player is so dominate then he can afford not to grind all the time and look like he's going into combat. He can just enjoy the moment and let the tennis flow. Well....at least Roger can do that.
....so anyone who can't do that can't enjoy their game?
omg the whole ATP except for Federer is being forced to play tennis!!!!!1!1!11

(I love Roger, mind you.)

You say that Nadal has appeared to enjoy tennis while he's playing....in other words he might have a faint smile and hit a few nice easy shots instead of always hitting hard. That's great....I guess I've never seen it because I don't watch all his matches. The media seem to always publish the same kind of caveman faced pics of him that conjure up a grimacing pained performance. Ok....I know it's not his fault what image they try to portray for him.
I don't understand you. People have to have pretty playing faces to be able to enjoy their game? They're not Miss Universe playing tennis. I knowwww Rafael has hideous playing faces. I doo. :eek: but that says so little about his love for the game than his fist pumping and his vamos-es. He loves to play and most of the world knows that. (I've figured that you don't like it when people generalize stuff.) and fyi, Rafael does sometimes hit easy shots. Yes he does.

I agree that Federer plays more "pleasantly" than Rafael does, but there's no reason why Rafael shouldn't play the way he does. I like it. :p

and fyi, some people don't like Federer's style of playing because of the fact that he makes everything too effortless.

nobama
08-13-2005, 12:42 AM
Of course but the clay field is not that strong right now. It's not like Nadal is having to face the likes of Kuerten in his prime. Most of the clay court players are shorter and unable to overpower Nadal. Coria and JCF fell off of their prime quite quickly due to injury or lack of confidence.Look it's not necessary to knock Rafa just because Roger's your fav. I love Roger too, but one could say that beating the likes of Hewitt and Roddick isn't such a big deal anymore because they've been his bitches for awhile now. It's actually quite pathetic when he playes them. Especially when he kicks Hewitt's ass right after Hewitt just got done kicking Roddick's ass (2004 TMC). Roger's one hell of a player, so is Nadal. I don't think Nadal has faced anybody tough so far in Montreal, but to say he didn't face anybody strong on clay or throughout the season is ridiculous.

connectolove
08-13-2005, 01:48 AM
This may turn into Rafa's tournament...

RonE
08-13-2005, 08:28 AM
Okay totally dumb question but why is Rafa called Piggy :confused:

1.) He resembles a pig with the pudgy upward pointing nose.

2.) When he screams his "vamoooooos" it's a high-pitched shriek that is reminiscent of a pig in heat sqeauling.

3.) When he tramples, scampers and rolls on the clay he reminds me of a piggy rooting in the mud.

Does that answer your question? Now everyone can rip me to pieces for being a HATA :p

Chloe le Bopper
08-13-2005, 05:56 PM
As long as you don't start posting that Roger is the Brad Pitt of tennis, there will be no kicking and screaming from me, Ron. My eyes are still burning from having read that the first time.

Saumon
08-13-2005, 06:04 PM
....so anyone who can't do that can't enjoy their game?
omg the whole ATP except for Federer is being forced to play tennis!!!!!1!1!11

:haha:

nobama
08-13-2005, 06:12 PM
Roger's a hottie like Brad Pitt....um no I don't think so. :haha:

RonE
08-14-2005, 07:53 AM
As long as you don't start posting that Roger is the Brad Pitt of tennis, there will be no kicking and screaming from me, Ron. My eyes are still burning from having read that the first time.

Hardly :bolt: :tape:

The Pro
08-14-2005, 09:06 AM
1.) He resembles a pig with the pudgy upward pointing nose.

2.) When he screams his "vamoooooos" it's a high-pitched shriek that is reminiscent of a pig in heat sqeauling.

3.) When he tramples, scampers and rolls on the clay he reminds me of a piggy rooting in the mud.

Does that answer your question? Now everyone can rip me to pieces for being a HATA :p

I assume people call him the weasel cos his high cheek bones and tufty hair have a kind of weasel-ish look.

Either way it's people who don't like him who tend to use those names, just like it isn't Hewitt lovers who call him the potato.

It's fair enough, nick names are nick names, I'd prefer that weasel catch on than piggy though.

I think he's got a swarthy handsome thing going on, but that's neither here nor there....

RonE
08-14-2005, 10:00 AM
I assume people call him the weasel cos his high cheek bones and tufty hair have a kind of weasel-ish look.

Either way it's people who don't like him who tend to use those names, just like it isn't Hewitt lovers who call him the potato.

It's fair enough, nick names are nick names, I'd prefer that weasel catch on than piggy though.

I think he's got a swarthy handsome thing going on, but that's neither here nor there....

Sorry, Weasel is already taken by Coria :p

lucashg
08-14-2005, 02:21 PM
Oh, stop being such a drama queen.

What's the point of your Nadal obsession anyway? Others like his style of tennis. Deal with it. Stop whining about it please.

I'm sorry, but you were the one who asked "What's not to like about his game?" and she just explained it. A bit more vividly than what you would have wished, but still pretty sincere on her part.

Isn't it funny that some people now just can't deal with the fact that some dislike Nadal's style? And they used to complain that about Holy Federer's fans who think his game is perfect. Double-standard flying all over the place.

I'm not saying it's you cos I've never seen you do that. And you always seem respectful towards everyone, even if clearly your favorite is Nadal. No problem about that.

To answer your question, I think bits of his game are very interesting. Because he's a "fake" left-handed, he has so much control on his backhand side that he can hit some amazing angles with incredible power and accuracy, not to mention his passing shots. His speed is amazing and he can make for some interesting points. His serve is good, but I don't like it and I hate that ugly forehand. That topspin has nothing beautiful IMO. I don't like his on-court antics as well, too excited over something that really, shouldn't be all that great of a deal and often he shouts vamos and fistpumps at his opponent's errors. There, what I like and dislike about his game.

Castafiore
08-14-2005, 02:51 PM
lucashg,

(bit of a long post ahead...sorry)

my drama queen reply was more aimed at comments such as:
"When Nadal plays he looks like he's in pain and everything is a tremendous effort. It's just depressing to watch that style. On the other hand, Roger is clever and makes incredible shots as if they were no big deal......"
It's not the fact that she dislikes his style that I have a problem with. Hey, I may not understand why anybody would find it boring but we all got our own taste. No problem.
I just find it a bit overdramatic to say things like "it's depressing to watch that style".
She may genuinely feel that way of course but if you really get depressed over somebody's tennis style, you need a life IMO. I don't really think it's the case, though so I think she overdramatizes a bit - hence the drama queen comment.

Another comment I find over-the-top is (don't know who said it and I can't be bothered to look it up): "it pains my tennis heart to watch his style" or something of that nature.
That's a drama queen comment, isn't it?

I think bits of his game are very interesting. Because he's a "fake" left-handed, he has so much control on his backhand side that he can hit some amazing angles with incredible power and accuracy, not to mention his passing shots. His speed is amazing and he can make for some interesting points. His serve is good, but I don't like it and I hate that ugly forehand. That topspin has nothing beautiful IMO. I don't like his on-court antics as well, too excited over something that really, shouldn't be all that great of a deal and often he shouts vamos and fistpumps at his opponent's errors. There, what I like and dislike about his game.
Fair enough :)

It may look that way, but I really don't have a problem with people disliking his style. Some people just make overdramatic statements IMO. We can't like the same things in life. But, that's a message board for you, I guess.

Almost every top player here has people who love his style/game/skills and people who love to hate him. No problem.

I may have a favorite top player but I enjoy most of them in a good match and I feel that most of these players came to the top for a reason: talent, skill, drive. Some of those players have more of it perhaps and the mixture isn't always the same (not always the same combination of mental toughness - athletic ability - skills to make the shots - ...) but they are all talented or they wouldn't be at the top. That's why I don't understand over-the-top comments.

People tend to exaggerate in underlining their anti-feelings. Some of the comments against Hewitt or Roddick or Federer or Coria or...are also over-the-top, as far as I am concerned and every little detail is used as a stick to beat that player with.

On the other hand, even though I'm a fan of Nadal and even more so by watching him over the months and years get better and stronger, I recognize that he still has a long road ahead of him. For example, my gut feeling tells me that Agassi will win this final (experience,...?) but I hope that Nadal can get his first HC title (but I will be happy for Andre if he gets it).
To me, Nadalhas proven that he can play well on another surface than clay and he can make life difficult on HC (Hewitt 5 sets, Federer 5 sets) but I am not blind to see that there's still lots to prove and improve.
It'll be fun seeing his progress, though and I hope he can silence more and more critics.

raeesa301
08-14-2005, 03:04 PM
I think that Rafa's a pretty exciting player to watch. Sometimes he can be a little over the top (my opinion, don't kill me ok?), but there's always a good atmosphere at his matches. I like his game too. It's sort of a rusty style if you know what I mean. His shots aren't really that clean and he's not an elegent mover (good, just not elegent), but he still comes up with incredible shots.

The only thing that bugs me is his attitude (my opinion, please PLEASE don't kill me!). I just don't like that part of him. And maybe his looks.

EDIT: while I like Rafa's game I'm not a fan of his, therefore: GO ANDRE!!!

Castafiore
08-14-2005, 03:19 PM
Hey, why would anybody kill you over that, raeesa301.

To me, his shots are perhaps not smooth and elegant if you look at them from a textbook, technical point of view.
Some may find some of them even ugly but they're effective.

His uncle Toni explained one day why they did not really learn him the shots from a very technical point of view.
Toni said that in practice, when Rafa was growing up, he would ask his nephew to place the ball standing (or running) from a particular position on the court to a particular point on the other side of the net. Toni said that you didn't need to explain him the technical shots to do so because Rafa tended to always find a way by himself how to get the shots where he wanted them to fall. So, his uncle/coach decided to keep the technical lessons to a minimum perhaps and let his natural ability take over.
As a result, people who just love to see those technical shots from a textbook perspective may find those shots ugly. Fair enough. :) They are still very effective most of the time, though. :nerner: ;)

raeesa301
08-14-2005, 03:39 PM
Hey, why would anybody kill you over that, raeesa301.

To me, his shots are perhaps not smooth and elegant if you look at them from a textbook, technical point of view.
Some may find some of them even ugly but they're effective.

His uncle Toni explained one day why they did not really learn him the shots from a very technical point of view.
Toni said that in practice, when Rafa was growing up, he would ask his nephew to place the ball standing (or running) from a particular position on the court to a particular point on the other side of the net. Toni said that you didn't need to explain him the technical shots to do so because Rafa tended to always find a way by himself how to get the shots where he wanted them to fall. So, his uncle/coach decided to keep the technical lessons to a minimum perhaps and let his natural ability take over.
As a result, people who just love to see those technical shots from a textbook perspective may find those shots ugly. Fair enough. :) They are still very effective most of the time, though. :nerner: ;)

Some people might think I'm dissing him and then start attacking me via computer. You know, the ones who look at things from the wrong point of view or think the wrong things about what you've typed because your opinion is different to theirs.

By the way, I said I liked his game because it's rusty, same reason I like Hewitts'. I didn't think about the technical stuff. But the fact that I like his game doesn't mean I'm his fan or that I'm part of the hype that's surrounding him. I might like the game, but I don't like the man ;) .

Jennay
08-14-2005, 03:47 PM
Has Nadal ever looked like he enjoys the game? I've never seen him when he wasn't sweating and scowling.
Um. :retard: Some players are a little thing called focussed. :retard:

Nimomunz
08-14-2005, 03:54 PM
this thread starting as a simple exclamation that someone wanted rafa to win this tournie so people would stop hating on him as just a claycourter. why are fed fans so AFRAID of rafa that they hijack this thread when honest to god fed has noting to do win rafa wining this tournie as he isnt even there it isnt as if rafa is taking something that belongs to fed.

having said that i still want Agassi to win!!

Castafiore
08-14-2005, 04:03 PM
Some people might think I'm dissing him
Don't worry about it, I know you weren't dissing him. :)

I gave that 'technical' explanation but it's not necessarily aimed at you but I wrote it because that's often how people react to his style: they find it not smooth, elegant, not textbook...so, they find it ugly.
I love the way Federer makes almost everything look so smooth but at the same time, I love the passion and the warrior attitude with which Nadal plays tennis.

If you prefer one style over the other depends a lot on your own personality, I guess.
While I admire the cool attitude of Federer, it's far removed from my personality. In competitions, I am fierce, passionate and people often tell me that I have an aggressive style (instead of passive defence).
So maybe that's why I love watching a player with passion, drive and with a warrior, never-say-die attitude? I also had quite a bit of fun watching players like MacEnroe (even if he exaggerated at times with his tantrums).

raeesa301
08-14-2005, 04:27 PM
Don't worry about it, I know you weren't dissing him. :)

I gave that 'technical' explanation but it's not necessarily aimed at you but I wrote it because that's often how people react to his style: they find it not smooth, elegant, not textbook...so, they find it ugly.
I love the way Federer makes almost everything look so smooth but at the same time, I love the passion and the warrior attitude with which Nadal plays tennis.

If you prefer one style over the other depends a lot on your own personality, I guess.
While I admire the cool attitude of Federer, it's far removed from my personality. In competitions, I am fierce, passionate and people often tell me that I have an aggressive style (instead of passive defence).
So maybe that's why I love watching a player with passion, drive and with a warrior, never-say-die attitude? I also had quite a bit of fun watching players like MacEnroe (even if he exaggerated at times with his tantrums).

I agree. There's not a lot of Rafa style out there, except for Hewitt I can't think of anyone. But like someone said, he's sort of like an upgrade of Hewitt, only he's game is obviously better suited for claycourt.

this thread starting as a simple exclamation that someone wanted rafa to win this tournie so people would stop hating on him as just a claycourter. why are fed fans so AFRAID of rafa that they hijack this thread when honest to god fed has noting to do win rafa wining this tournie as he isnt even there it isnt as if rafa is taking something that belongs to fed.

having said that i still want Agassi to win!!

I agree with you. Everybody in the game has to have rivals, even Fed. If Rafa beats him, deal with it. If Rafa's getting more attention for being the new kid on the block, deal with it. I think it's better for the game if Fed loses a little more matches and gets less attention, that said I don't want Rafa to be dominating the claycourt or hardcourt season. I doubt it'll happen on hardcourt (it might take time) but I don't think it would be great if he kept on winning all the claycourt titles next year. His fans might, but for some of us it could be boring.

raeesa301
08-14-2005, 04:38 PM
Um. :retard: Some players are a little thing called focussed. :retard:

More points, If he doesn't enjoy the game why does/did he:
a) look so happy when he wins a match
b) throw his fist in the air or jump around when he wins a
point.
c) train through his childhood to become a tennis pro.

yanchr
08-14-2005, 05:16 PM
lucashg,

(bit of a long post ahead...sorry)

my drama queen reply was more aimed at comments such as:
"When Nadal plays he looks like he's in pain and everything is a tremendous effort. It's just depressing to watch that style. On the other hand, Roger is clever and makes incredible shots as if they were no big deal......"
It's not the fact that she dislikes his style that I have a problem with. Hey, I may not understand why anybody would find it boring but we all got our own taste. No problem.
I just find it a bit overdramatic to say things like "it's depressing to watch that style".
She may genuinely feel that way of course but if you really get depressed over somebody's tennis style, you need a life IMO. I don't really think it's the case, though so I think she overdramatizes a bit - hence the drama queen comment.

Another comment I find over-the-top is (don't know who said it and I can't be bothered to look it up): "it pains my tennis heart to watch his style" or something of that nature.
That's a drama queen comment, isn't it?
You don't have to bother looking the sentence up, it's me who made this comment.

You think it's a drama queen comment? Sorry, but I really feel so in my heart, it's not overdramatic for me so I just said it out. Maybe it offended his fans, but I'm just sincere to my heart. As simple as that. Are you going to have problems with my sincere heart?

Anyway, while I agree with what PamV had said in your quote, I wouldn't say it this way like, Nadal play looks like he is in pain blah blah blah WHILE Federer is clever blah blah blah. This sounds to me that only Federer style player is allowed to play tennis. This is not the case and the truth. Actually it's a matter of personal taste. I also don't have a problem with that at all. But all in all we are free to say our own minds, aren't we?

I won't say Nadal is playing llike he is not enjoying tennis. I believe most play the game because they enjoy it. But I will say, Nadal turns tennis into fight, I mean, every point, every game and every match. I know it's true that matches are like fights sometimes. You have to fight hard to win yourself points and money. But it's still just a game and we are appreciaters. I don't like fight. I love comfort, elegance and ease. That's why Federer gets to me and Nadal doesn't. I just find Nadal and Federer two extremes. While I like one, I will never like the other.

Nimomunz
08-14-2005, 05:56 PM
I won't say Nadal is playing llike he is not enjoying tennis. I believe most play the game because they enjoy it. But I will say, Nadal turns tennis into fight, I mean, every point, every game and every match. I know it's true that matches are like fights sometimes. You have to fight hard to win yourself points and money.
thats why he is called a grinder!!