Cañas suspended for 2 years [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Cañas suspended for 2 years

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Julio1974
08-08-2005, 08:53 PM
AN Argentine newspaper (www.infobae.com.ar) has just informed that Cañas has been suspended for two years.

Vamos Feńa
08-08-2005, 08:54 PM
OMG no! :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
Willy :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

Nimomunz
08-08-2005, 08:57 PM
OMG no! :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
Willy :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:
excuse me!! do the crime do the time
he was found guilty and deserves the punishment

maratski
08-08-2005, 08:59 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Have a nice life :sad:

Vamos Feńa
08-08-2005, 09:02 PM
excuse me!! do the crime do the time
he was found guilty and deserves the punishment
Ok, but I will miss him :sad:

Alvarillo
08-08-2005, 09:03 PM
2 years???? :eek:
i can't believe

Alvarillo
08-08-2005, 09:05 PM
Clarin www.clarin.com also says 2 years :sad:

Choupi
08-08-2005, 09:08 PM
I'll definitely miss him... :sad:

Corey Feldman
08-08-2005, 09:11 PM
Horrible :sad:

Raquel
08-08-2005, 09:12 PM
I always enjoyed watching Canas and admired how tough he was on court, how he came back from injury and always fought to the end, so the fact he was using illegal substances is disappointing.

lau
08-08-2005, 09:13 PM
He can appeal and he`ll do it. I really hope it will be less than 2 years :sad:
IMO, his fighting spirit doesn´t have to do with using illegal substances..., but that`s just my opinion... :sad:

oneandonlyhsn
08-08-2005, 09:13 PM
I'm speechless :tape:

Whistleway
08-08-2005, 09:13 PM
Does it really help to play better tennis?

Aleksa's Laydee
08-08-2005, 09:13 PM
WOW :eek:

star
08-08-2005, 09:14 PM
I'm sorry Canas used illegal substances.

But, I'm not sorry he was caught nor sorry he is getting a stiff penalty.

Space Cowgirl
08-08-2005, 09:17 PM
:eek:

Nothing really to add, but he must have been doping to get such a penalty like that :mad:

i love paradorn
08-08-2005, 09:17 PM
Does it really help to play better tennis?

Um, are you serious??? Tell me you're joking... please..

SwissMister1
08-08-2005, 09:17 PM
In English -

The long version http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=/en/antidoping/canas_tribunal.pdf

And the short http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=/en/antidoping/canas_release.pdf

If he was taking diuretics, then he should have either had some kind of note from a doctor, or it is very easy to suspect that he was masking other drugs in his system.

star
08-08-2005, 09:20 PM
He can appeal and he`ll do it. I really hope it will be less than 2 years :sad:
IMO, his fighting spirit doesn´t have to do with using illegal substances..., but that`s just my opinion... :sad:

His fighting spirit might not have anything to do with using illegal substances, but his ability to fight might have a lot to do with them. :)

Papakori
08-08-2005, 09:22 PM
:sad:

Mario66
08-08-2005, 09:24 PM
What can I say...Sad but true. If he`s guilty, he deserves it.

lau
08-08-2005, 09:25 PM
His fighting spirit might not have anything to do with using illegal substances, but his ability to fight might have a lot to do with them. :)
Yeah, you`re right... ;) But comming back from those injuries and still having the will to play tennis, etc, etc doesn´t have nothing to do with taking illegal substances...., as I said, IMO.
Anyway, I don´t care about it right now. It`s just too sad for me. :sad: I`ll really miss him...

jazz_girl
08-08-2005, 09:25 PM
I can't believe they gave him 2 years for taking a diuretic. I'll miss him for sure :sad:

TheBoiledEgg
08-08-2005, 09:31 PM
thats OUCH, harsh but thats the punishment.
and the end of his career most likely

dont see him getting WC's on his return
he'll get shunned by the players too.

Effka
08-08-2005, 09:32 PM
I pity the fool... there's nothing else to add.

revolution
08-08-2005, 09:33 PM
Possibly.

Jelena
08-08-2005, 09:39 PM
The fact is that diuretics are used also in other sports. Actually I don't see really the sense of using/taking it in tennis, but there are rules, which substances have to be punished with which punishment, means how long the punishment has to be. And those rules say clearly that taking a diuretica has to be punished with 2 years of suspension.

I mean, I'm in a way sorry for Willy, cause I got to know him as a great guy, but the rules are the way they are.

Whistleway
08-08-2005, 09:42 PM
In English -

The long version http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=/en/antidoping/canas_tribunal.pdf

And the short http://www.atptennis.com/en/common/TrackIt.asp?file=/en/antidoping/canas_release.pdf

If he was taking diuretics, then he should have either had some kind of note from a doctor, or it is very easy to suspect that he was masking other drugs in his system.

Thanks for the links, SwissMister1. It is really a pity... He was tested positive for a masking agent, not the drug in itself. And his excuses ranging from not knowing a doctor to not even seeing the drug is totally unprofessional. He should have atleast provided a better case or hire better lawyers..

Denaon
08-08-2005, 09:46 PM
He'll be missed, and I'm disappointed for him, but has anyone realised that Argentine players are always doing drugs? Maybe they've used them to get where they are in the rankings.

First of all, this is pure shit.....I can't believe they gave Willy 2 years suspension.....

And Joeyd, I know you're not against argies..but I have this question, why would it be so hard to find 5 (including Willy Cañas) players ranked high as they are considering all of them are truly talented?

I sincerely feel awful for this news, I've just read it, I'm devastated.....

kundalini
08-08-2005, 09:49 PM
Having read much of the long version of the verdict, it seems quite interesting.

The panel decided Canas was not telling the truth, though they had no idea what the masking agent was hiding. He attempted to blame the tournament medical team, whilst at the same time claiming that he took his ATP drug information card everywhere with him at all times.

So he just took the medicine and never bothered to figure out what it was.

I'm afraid Canas' defence simply wasn't credible. Their argument was all over the place and by the end they appear to have shot themselves in the foot by trying to blame everyone under the sun.

As to what really happened who knows?

El Legenda
08-08-2005, 09:49 PM
well he is done with tennis..he will be 30 when he comes back.

revolution
08-08-2005, 09:50 PM
First of all, this is pure shit.....I can't believe they gave Willy 2 years suspension.....

And Joeyd, I know you're not against argies..but I have this question, why would it be so hard to find 5 (including Willy Cañas) players ranked high as they are considering all of them are truly talented?

I sincerely feel awful for this news, I've just read it, I'm devastated.....


Yeah its bad.. as Willy is one of my faves I feel down for him, what was it he used, if it weren't performance enhancing was it? Simon Larose (Canadian) got banned for sniffing coke, I thought that was harsh as it didn't enhance his performance.

revolution
08-08-2005, 09:50 PM
well he is done with tennis..he will be 30 when he comes back.

Agassi is almost 35 so where does that leave your statement?

El Legenda
08-08-2005, 09:51 PM
Agassi is almost 35 so where does that leave your statement?

Canas is not Agassi. How many players stay at top of there game after 30? + he will take a long drop in rankings.

kundalini
08-08-2005, 09:53 PM
Thanks for the links, SwissMister1. It is really a pity... He was tested positive for a masking agent, not the drug in itself. And his excuses ranging from not knowing a doctor to not even seeing the drug is totally unprofessional. He should have atleast provided a better case or hire better lawyers..

Agree

Canas' defence was hopeless.

Whistleway
08-08-2005, 09:53 PM
I'm afraid Canas' defence simply wasn't credible. Their argument was all over the place and by the end they appear to have shot themselves in the foot by trying to blame everyone under the sun.

Seriously, they need to hire a decent lawyer and reappeal to Switzerland.

Canas must repay $276,070 in prize money and forfeit 525 singles and 95 doubles ranking points as part of the sanction. He will be eligible to return to competition on June 11, 2007.

Scotso
08-08-2005, 09:53 PM
So long.

oneandonlyhsn
08-08-2005, 09:54 PM
What a pathetic defence Canas put up. I mean I am sure the guy has loads of money he could have hired better lawyers or something. His case looked like he was hiding something, whether he was or not, who knows.

superpinkone37
08-08-2005, 09:55 PM
:eek: :eek: Wow....

David Kenzie
08-08-2005, 09:56 PM
What a pathetic defence Canas put up. I mean I am sure the guy has loads of money he could have hired better lawyers or something. His case looked like he was hiding something, whether he was or not, who knows.
2 years is very long, it might end his career as RDucky said. But I don't think this should have anything to do with his defence. I mean if the test was positive, he should be punished. End of story :(

Fee
08-08-2005, 09:59 PM
He should have hired Rusedski's lawyer.

Nathaliia
08-08-2005, 10:01 PM
2 years? OMG........ no matter what, he was one of my fave players!
i hope he can come back just like Puerta... please don't give up and show you can deal without any substances just through your talent and spirit fight which both are undebatable.

1sun
08-08-2005, 10:03 PM
the dude got wot he deserved. c ya canas, and bye bye to your career

NYCtennisfan
08-08-2005, 10:08 PM
That's a stiff penalty but if he was indeed doping, then what can you say? I'm afraid his career is now over.

tangerine_dream
08-08-2005, 10:14 PM
I don't like Canas but two years? :eek: That's a lifetime in professional sports. His career is essentially over.

onewoman74
08-08-2005, 10:22 PM
that's some shit!!!

KarstenBraasch#1
08-08-2005, 10:33 PM
That's bad - for the players who lost against him while he was on drugs. :mad:

njnetswill
08-08-2005, 10:35 PM
So that's how he got into the top ten. :tape:

But seriously, if he did indeed do the crime, than it is only fair for the other players he cheated and the game of tennis to see him go bye bye. :wavey:

Getting convicted of doping leaves a bad stigma though. One can pity Canas in that sense.

Deboogle!.
08-08-2005, 10:43 PM
:shrug: no amount of suspension can aggrieve the losses all the people took to him. If he was not using the diuretics to mask drugs, as others have said here, he should've been more careful, he should've known the potential consequences, so he should have to face them even if he's not a "doper" per se. It's too bad, but there's no one to blame but himself I don't think. :(

mitalidas
08-08-2005, 10:44 PM
Nearly impossible to come back at this age. Definitely sends a message to anyone would-be dopers. As someone said-- each player is ultimately responsible for what they take and who they get it from.

Best of luck to him in whatever new career he chooses!

jrm
08-08-2005, 10:50 PM
Not sure what kind of court did they use for this matter but he could have been used as a warning to all other tennis players who might test positive in the future just to say ATP is not kidding!

Havok
08-08-2005, 10:51 PM
Canas :rolleyes: pathetic.

roisin
08-08-2005, 10:58 PM
Well if he's guilty, i've no sympathy but I liked him, nice player.

zethand
08-08-2005, 11:00 PM
Is it the largest punishment for using substances?

lucashg
08-08-2005, 11:03 PM
:eek: Kinda shocking, didn't expect the punishment to be so harsh, but there's nothing here, he got what he deserved. It's sad for tennis because not only it's losing one of its best players it also had to lose to such a stupid attitude as taking diuretics to hide illegal substances (as the court found it to be for).

I really don't see him coming back in 2 years time. So, that's it. Good luck in whatever he may choose to do after this and hope he does some thinking about what he did. Let's hope this is a warning to all of those who were attempting to use illegal substances, let it be in tennis or in whatever other sport.

Just sad and disappointing, I liked to see him play. But as I said, he deserved it.

psichogaucho
08-08-2005, 11:07 PM
:sad:
fuerza Willy!

mitalidas
08-08-2005, 11:11 PM
Is it the largest punishment for using substances?
bohdan also got two years and i think korda was less maybe 1 yr

Gonzo Hates Me!
08-08-2005, 11:24 PM
Drugs schmugs :shrug:

Canas :sad:

is nalby the only top argentine who hasn't had a drug bust?

mitalidas
08-08-2005, 11:25 PM
Very interesting --- during the appeal, the records showed that Canas was among a few other players who in the 2002/2003 year had nandrolone in their systems, which came
"very close" to being positives and Canas was warned about it

Sounds less and less like he didn't know what was going on

sigmagirl91
08-08-2005, 11:27 PM
Drugs schmugs :shrug:

Canas :sad:

is nalby the only top argentine who hasn't had a drug bust?

He and Gaudio

Nimomunz
08-08-2005, 11:28 PM
just say no!! :devil:

lucashg
08-08-2005, 11:37 PM
He and Gaudio

What was the fuss with Coria? :confused:

mitalidas
08-08-2005, 11:40 PM
What was the fuss with Coria? :confused:
also nandrolone
2001 or 2002

Pea
08-08-2005, 11:43 PM
Canas is not Agassi.

You're right. Gulliermo actually got caught.

Anyways, very disappointed in Guillermo. 2 years is such a huge punishment, Most likely his career is over. :sad:

Julio1974
08-08-2005, 11:49 PM
What was the fuss with Coria? :confused:

I explained what happened with Coria here http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=48509

The suspension was completely out of proportion.

+alonso
08-08-2005, 11:52 PM
Sorry :sad: WOW

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 12:05 AM
I explained what happened with Coria here http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=48509

The suspension was completely out of proportion.

In Coria's case, the ATP was effectively asking players to stop their reliance on supplements not given by the ATP itself.

The problem with not punishing coria would be -- what if someone starts manufacturing supplements deliberately with nandrolone, as an open secret among athletes, and not listing it in its ingredients. Players would benefit and no one would be sanctioned. I think what the ATP did in coria's case sent a strong message by saying players alone are responsible for taking what they do, unless it comes from ATP

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:06 AM
also nandrolone
2001 or 2002

You could have add: "whose source was a contaminated nutritional supplement that Coria did not know it was contaminated".

What you omit is as important as what you say.

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 12:09 AM
You could have add: "whose source was a contaminated nutritional supplement that Coria did not know it was contaminated".

What you omit is as important as what you say.

You could say that to all the posts here about Canas. He too said he did not know he took anything illegal or contaminated. i have not heard of any caught tennis player who has come forward saying they knowingly doped

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:12 AM
You could say that to all the posts here about Canas. He too said he did not know he took anything illegal or contaminated. i have not heard of any caught tennis player who has come forward saying they knowingly doped

That was not Coria's statement. It was the conclusion of the Tribunal, as I explained in other post. The Tribunal said that the source of nandrolone was a commercially available nutritional supplement at the point of manufacture, one NOT labeled to contain a banned substance among its ingredients. The tribunal also concluded that "Coria was completely UNAWARE that the supplement was contaminated.

Despite this conclusion, he was suspended.

deflori
08-09-2005, 12:12 AM
willyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! :(

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 12:13 AM
That was not Coria's statement. It was the conclusion of the Tribunal, as I explained in other post. The Tribunal said that the source of nandrolone was a commercially available nutritional supplement at the point of manufacture, one NOT labeled to contain a banned substance among its ingredients. The tribunal also concluded that "Coria was completely UNAWARE that the supplement was contaminated.

Despite this conclusion, he was suspended.

I'm aware, and I said above: The problem with not punishing coria would be -- what if someone starts manufacturing supplements deliberately with nandrolone, as an open secret among athletes, and not listing it in its ingredients. Players would benefit and no one would be sanctioned. I think what the ATP did in coria's case sent a strong message by saying players alone are responsible for taking what they do, unless it comes from ATP (and in the Rusedski case, this is the only reason that the ATP grudgingly gave in)

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:13 AM
In Coria's case, the ATP was effectively asking players to stop their reliance on supplements not given by the ATP itself.

The problem with not punishing coria would be -- what if someone starts manufacturing supplements deliberately with nandrolone, as an open secret among athletes, and not listing it in its ingredients. Players would benefit and no one would be sanctioned. I think what the ATP did in coria's case sent a strong message by saying players alone are responsible for taking what they do, unless it comes from ATP

And the supplement from the ATP were contaminated too !!!! Very funny, but true.

alfonsojose
08-09-2005, 12:14 AM
I'll miss that body :drool:

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:16 AM
I'm aware, and I said above: The problem with not punishing coria would be -- what if someone starts manufacturing supplements deliberately with nandrolone, as an open secret among athletes, and not listing it in its ingredients. Players would benefit and no one would be sanctioned. I think what the ATP did in coria's case sent a strong message by saying players alone are responsible for taking what they do, unless it comes from ATP (and in the Rusedski case, this is the only reason that the ATP grudgingly gave in)

I wonder whether if Agassi, Roddick or Hewitt had taken a contaminated supplement, they would have been suspended for 7 months!!! Let me doubt about it.

mangoes
08-09-2005, 12:17 AM
Wow, so I guess he was guilty.

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 12:17 AM
I wonder whether if Agassi, Roddick or Hewitt had taken a contaminated supplement, they would have been suspended for 7 months!!! Let me doubt about it.
swept under the carpet, all records would be burned and witnesses banished to siberia

the cat
08-09-2005, 12:24 AM
I like that tennis has tough standards for those who use any kind of performance enhancing drugs. But a 2 year suspension seems to be too harsh to me. I think a 1 year suspension is more fitting. Especially since we know that labs aren't perfect and make mistakes when it comes to drug testing. I also feel badly for Argentine tennis and fans of Argentine tennis. :( They have such a good group of players. I hope this staggering drug suspension news is a wake up call for all tennis players who have ever thought about possibly taking a performance enhancing drug. :eek:

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:25 AM
QUOTE=mitalidas]swept under the carpet, all records would be burned and witnesses banished to siberia[/QUOTE]

Finally, we agree on something !!!!

Raquel
08-09-2005, 12:34 AM
swept under the carpet, all records would be burned and witnesses banished to siberia
Well certainly not in Hewitt's case (not that it would ever happen, I'd guess). He's not the ATP's favourite person.

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 12:36 AM
Well certainly not in Hewitt's case. He's not the ATP's favourite person.

but he brings in the crowds = $$$$
not to mention that he would have a powerful Oz lobby behind him

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:36 AM
Well certainly not in Hewitt's case. He's not the ATP's favourite person.

It's not about the person. It's about the ipressure the local tennis association may put on the ATP. I can assure you that the American and the Australian tennis association have more influence than the Argentine.

arcus
08-09-2005, 12:37 AM
If the ATP are right, and canas is guilty, he must be a total sleeze.

He was trying to blame a tournament doctor for prescribing the diuretic for him "for a sore throat", which totally defies belief.

Needless to say, the tourny doc denied seeing him, or writing a script for something that you can buy over the counter in Mexico. And of course, the tourny staff person who supposedly collected the script for him can't be located.

Cheating is bad, but trying to drag others down so u can save ur skin really stinks...........

Raquel
08-09-2005, 12:38 AM
but he brings in the crowds = $$$$
not to mention that he would have a powerful Oz lobby behind him
I just edited my last post before you would have seen it to say that it would likely never happen anyway to Lleyton so it's all hypothetical.

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:39 AM
I just edited my last post before you would have seen it to say that it would likely never happen anyway to Lleyton so it's all hypothetical.

How can you be so sure that he will never have the bad luck of taking a contaminated supplement?

Raquel
08-09-2005, 12:40 AM
It's not about the person. It's about the ipressure the local tennis association may put on the ATP. I can assure you that the American and the Australian tennis association have more influence than the Argentine.
Well, as I said, it'll probably never happen anyway. As for Canas, 2 years does seem harsh. I don't think anyone's ever gotten that length of ban before have they?

Raquel
08-09-2005, 12:42 AM
How can you be so sure that he will never have the bad luck of taking a contaminated supplement?
I can't be sure. One day it might happen, but it's more likely that it won't.

El Legenda
08-09-2005, 12:42 AM
If Canas was playing baseball, he would of been suspanded 10days for this..
for a 2 year suspansion in baseball, its after being caught 4th or 5th time.

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 12:45 AM
I can't be sure. One day it might happen, but it's more likely that it won't.

Let's be clear about something: I don't have anything against Hewitt. It was just an example.
My point is that Coria's suspension was grossly unfair. That's all.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 12:49 AM
canas was punished becoz he was caught fuck the fact that he was argentine or not he was wrong and deserves to be punished!!

Fee
08-09-2005, 12:49 AM
Two years is just long enough for Canas to use all the banned substances he can find to keep himself in shape, then take the last 6 months to flush them out of his system and rejoin the tour. ;)

If he is still motivated to play tennis in 2007, he'll be back. He just seems like that kind of guy.

Raquel
08-09-2005, 12:51 AM
Let's be clear about something: I don't have anything against Hewitt. It was just an example.

I knew what you meant, don't worry about it. I kind of dragged it off the subject there and onto things that might happen instead of what has happened.

star
08-09-2005, 12:54 AM
I like that tennis has tough standards for those who use any kind of performance enhancing drugs. But a 2 year suspension seems to be too harsh to me. I think a 1 year suspension is more fitting. Especially since we know that labs aren't perfect and make mistakes when it comes to drug testing. I also feel badly for Argentine tennis and fans of Argentine tennis. :( They have such a good group of players. I hope this staggering drug suspension news is a wake up call for all tennis players who have ever thought about possibly taking a performance enhancing drug. :eek:


I've been involved with drug testing labs for several years. The top labs have tremendously tight controls. It's not just one test that's done on a specimin. These is such accurate testing with thin gas chromotography that the substance can be identified with great precision. For example, labs can tell not only that you have used a prescription opiate, they can identify the brand name of the opiate.

Also with athletes there is always a B sample to be tested. (The improper storage of Tyler Hamilton's B sample which ruined it is the reason Hamilton got to hang on to his Olympic medal.) the B sample is tested at a completely different time. That means the lab would have to make the exact same mistake twice. That makes the chance of a mistake extremely low. Additionally, all the runs from the test of both the A and B samples are available and can be looked at by any expert to see if there were anomolies in that particular run. Every run has a sample with a known quanity in it. If that known sample does not test accurately, the entire run is retested. Also equipment is tested for accuracy with blind runs of known samples so the testers only know after a run if their equipment accurately tested the samples.

I've see posts that say Canas should have had a better lawyer, but unless the lawyer is manufacturing evidence, there sometimes is nothing a lawyer can do to make the case better.

Also, many agencies consider an alteration or adulteration of a sample to be worse than actually testing positive for the substance itself because it is an attempt to evade the testing procedure. Testing positive for a masking agent is not allowing the governing body to determine what was actually in the system. This draws the inference that the athlete was using the most serious sort of performance enhancing drug or drugs. Canas might have had a better outcome had he not attempted to evade by using a masking agent.

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 12:58 AM
regarding star's post, Canas did have two samples and a portion of the trial was devoted to proving whether or not the sample had been contaminated or altered in any way.

I posted earlier, that in 2002-2003 Canas was found to have "almost positive" tests for nandrolone -- enough to find it in his system, not enough to deem a positive, and was warned about it. It is possible that a diuretic is a masking agent for that, but it certainly does not help that this was part of his history

sigmagirl91
08-09-2005, 01:08 AM
regarding star's post, Canas did have two samples and a portion of the trial was devoted to proving whether or not the sample had been contaminated or altered in any way.

I posted earlier, that in 2002-2003 Canas was found to have "almost positive" tests for nandrolone -- enough to find it in his system, not enough to deem a positive, and was warned about it. It is possible that a diuretic is a masking agent for that, but it certainly does not help that this was part of his history

:eek: :eek: I'm shocked!!!

Bilbo
08-09-2005, 01:16 AM
Cya in 2 years, Willy :sad:

BTW I still think he's not guilty

ServeAlready81
08-09-2005, 01:21 AM
It's kind of sad that these players are doping. It's very sad that you give up your self respect just to win.

serenaslam22
08-09-2005, 01:22 AM
no wonder he gets to evry ball what a same I iled him as a player

Sagiel
08-09-2005, 01:25 AM
I do not like the way the ATP handles doping in general (see Corias case) but Willy had it coming. We may never know for sure if he was using the diuretics to mask something bigger or not, but the ATP is clear about that, plus his defense was just pathetic.

Sorry to see you go Willy, but dura lex sed lex.

Pea
08-09-2005, 01:47 AM
I wonder whether if Agassi, Roddick or Hewitt had taken a contaminated supplement, they would have been suspended for 7 months!!! Let me doubt about it.

They'd never be caught let alone get a lenient suspension.:)

If Canas was playing baseball, he would of been suspanded 10days for this..
for a 2 year suspansion in baseball, its after being caught 4th or 5th time.

This speaks more of what a horrible state baseball is in. Even in track you get years of suspensions and that's only if you admit to it.

Poor Willy. :sad:

sigmagirl91
08-09-2005, 01:51 AM
I'll miss that body :drool:

You'll always have Rainer, honey. :o

El Legenda
08-09-2005, 02:13 AM
Feel bad for all the clean players that lost to him, during this.

YoursTruly
08-09-2005, 02:20 AM
Feel bad for all the clean players that lost to him, during this.


Good point. Anyways, an interesting tidbit about this whole thing: this whole thing just comes out during the start and run of the Canadian Rogers Cup, which is the huge title that Canas won back in 2002. Coincidence. Another interesting thing about this case is it's not just a tragedy on his own account, but for Argentina. It's like roots that are growing. One could affect the rest. And in this case, this doesn't help out the Argentine doping reputation.

alfonsojose
08-09-2005, 02:35 AM
a pic from the press conferenca at Buenos Aires :shrug: :sad:

LoveFifteen
08-09-2005, 02:38 AM
Cañas is guilty. His defense was laughable -- full of holes and inconsistencies. He had no valid reason to be taking a diuretic anyway.

I think it's good that he's being suspended, but I think that two years is a bit too harsh. I think one year would be better.

At the same time, whether he comes back or not, he'll always be a "marked" player. Once you lose your good reputation, it almost never comes back.

sol
08-09-2005, 02:49 AM
awww Willy :sad: :hug:

disturb3d
08-09-2005, 03:13 AM
AN Argentine newspaper (www.infobae.com.ar) has just informed that Cañas has been suspended for two years.Best news all week. There's nothing pretty about talentless players winning tournaments with illegal substances.

LaTenista
08-09-2005, 03:13 AM
On ESPN2 tonight PMac and Cliff Drysdale along with BG were talking about players grumbling to Weiler about Willy's 2 year suspension. I'm really not sure what to believe anymore, all the stories seem more and more unbelievable but it appears the board was operating under a "guilty until proven innocent" mindset. Willy didn't convince them that he hadn't doped or hadn't tried to hide his doping so they threw the book at him so to speak. Just imagine if you were charged with a crime and the DA didn't have to prove you were guilty - just throw up enough smoke to call your innocence into question - to get you locked up.

Whether Willy decides to appeal or changes careers or plans a comeback I'm sure he'll do what's best for him but I'll miss him. :sad:

smucav
08-09-2005, 03:21 AM
Anyways, an interesting tidbit about this whole thing: this whole thing just comes out during the start and run of the Canadian Rogers Cup, which is the huge title that Canas won back in 2002. Coincidence.Wertheim reprinted a quote Hewitt made (after he lost to Canas in the 2002 Roland Garros, a few months before the big win at the Canadian Open) in his 6/4/05 mailbag. Foreshadowing on Hewitt's part? (Would he care to inform us who will test positive next?)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jon_wertheim/07/04/wimbledon.50/index.html33. We got a fair amount of mail this week about Guillermo Canas allegedly failing a drug test -- the fourth Argentine, for those of you scoring at home. The news reminded me of this exchange from 2002 after Canas outlasted the super-fit Hewitt at the French Open, a win that raised some eyebrows in the press room:

Q: Canas is able to play four hours and 28 minutes one day, four hours and 13 minutes today, is he Superman or what?

Hewitt: He's pretty strong. You know, there's times where -- I've said this in the past -- where you think he's looking a bit tired, but then he bounces back pretty well.

star
08-09-2005, 03:22 AM
On ESPN2 tonight PMac and Cliff Drysdale along with BG were talking about players grumbling to Weiler about Willy's 2 year suspension. I'm really not sure what to believe anymore, all the stories seem more and more unbelievable but it appears the board was operating under a "guilty until proven innocent" mindset. Willy didn't convince them that he hadn't doped or hadn't tried to hide his doping so they threw the book at him so to speak. Just imagine if you were charged with a crime and the DA didn't have to prove you were guilty - just throw up enough smoke to call your innocence into question - to get you locked up.

Whether Willy decides to appeal or changes careers or plans a comeback I'm sure he'll do what's best for him but I'll miss him. :sad:

I wouldn't call a dirty drug test "throwing up smoke." Canas had a banned substance in his system (the diuretic) and he couldn't explain why it ws there. That is hardly a guilty until proven innocent standard.

I suppose if I saw you standing over a dead body with a smoking gun in your hand and you couldn't come up with a legitimate story about how that all came about, you would still call that guilty until proven innocent.

smucav
08-09-2005, 03:52 AM
If you read the longer version of the doping report, there are quite a few things that don't add up:

His whole defense seems revolve around receiving a phantom prescription (containing the banned substance) from the tournament doctor.

According to the testimony of the doctor & others:

1) The doctor never examined Canas at the tournament (& has detailed records of who he did examine)

2) He didn't write any prescriptions for Canas.

3) The doctor did examine other players with the same symptoms Canas says he was suffering from & gave them OTC remedies that didn't require prescriptions.

4) There was no need for the tournament doctor (or any doctor) to prescribe that particular drug for the symptoms Canas says he was suffering from as it would have made the condition worse.

5) The person who allegedly picked up the prescription & delivered it to Canas hasn't been produced or identified.

6) Canas did not retain the carton, container, or the prescription itself even though he testified that he is overly vigilant about such things.

7) None of Canas's team who were at the tournament with him have any records about his illness or the prescription.

8) Canas did not declare that he had taken the prescription (or any other substances) when he gave his sample [This seems to be the most damning issue; if he had declared a prescription at the time, there would be a trail of evidence. Since he didn't, it appears to be a fabrication after the fact, even without the detailed records of the doctor.]

One of these things alone could simply have been an oversight (on Canas's part or the doctor's part), but all of them together seem quite suspicious. Even if you are a conspiracy theorist, there are too many factors to buy that as an explanation. (I've thought about it from all different angles & while some foul play could alter one or more of the above points, it would be nearly impossible to alter all of them. For example, if the doctor was lying for some reason & altered his records to support his version, it still wouldn't explain why Canas didn't disclose the prescription when he gave his sample or why he didn't retain the packaging.)

NYCtennisfan
08-09-2005, 04:57 AM
^Yes. I'm surprised that Canas' team couldn't come up with a better defense than what they put up.

LoveFifteen
08-09-2005, 05:17 AM
It's pretty hard to come up with a good defense when you've been caught red-handed.

Auscon
08-09-2005, 05:21 AM
2years?! holy crap......guess he's got plenty of time to regret what he did

I'm not a huge Canas fan, but it's a shame to see this happen to a world class player

gsm
08-09-2005, 05:28 AM
he is a crook!!!

IMO he should be banned for life!

Billabong
08-09-2005, 05:29 AM
2 years:eek: That's quite severe:eek::sad:

Leo
08-09-2005, 06:22 AM
Well, I'm shocked and saddened. I don't want to believe that he is guilty and I might never fully, but the evidence is pretty incriminating based on the reports. This definitely sends a message to the rest of the tour, but I think 2 years is too harsh.

Just think that in baseball you're out for a week or so. :rolleyes: :fiery: Meanwhile, Guillermo's career is ended.

And I wonder, as others already mentioned, what would have happened if it was from Agassi, Federer, Roddick, or another huge personality on the tour. Same punishment - not likely.

GonzoFan
08-09-2005, 08:36 AM
And I wonder, as others already mentioned, what would have happened if it was from Agassi, Federer, Roddick, or another huge personality on the tour. Same punishment- not likely

Of course it wouldn't be the same punishment ... maybe Cañas is guilty but I'm sure if was Agassi or Federer the punishment would have been for max 3 months or maybe nobody would never know about it ... 2 years is too much ... I'm so sad :sad: FUERZA WILLY !!!!!

dylan24
08-09-2005, 09:38 AM
see ya scum bag canas.

G O
08-09-2005, 09:42 AM
You'll always have Rainer, honey. :o


or any other random male with a penis...

RonE
08-09-2005, 09:51 AM
Thats a shocker :eek:

What I don't understand is why on earth didn't he check to make sure he wasn't using a contaminated substance? There have been plenty of precedents in the last few years so he should have been more aware of what he was taking. Seems as if he commited carreer suicide. :shrug:

Meeek
08-09-2005, 10:28 AM
Do the crime, do the time... :shrug:

CooCooCachoo
08-09-2005, 10:47 AM
Stiff penalties like this are good. This will result in a scare for other players and thus plays a preventive role.

On Cañas. Well, sorry, but he knowingly took the drugs. He knew what the consequences could he, were he to be caught. And now he's caught with his pants down, so he will just have to face the consequences of his own actions.

I don't feel sorry for him at all. I always admired him on the court and saw him as a great fighter and perhaps one of the most underrated players on the Tour, but this makes me view the man in a completely different perspective.

That cartoon during the Davis Cup tie earlier on doesn't seem so bad now.

SLICK
08-09-2005, 10:47 AM
This is so sad. When i first heard the news i assumed there must be a mistake. Having read the long version of the report and all the inconsistencies of his defence, it looks like Canas has something to hide. As a freelance journalist at the Nasdaq-100 i had the pleasure of doing an interview with Canas after he lost his match with Ferrero, and you could not wish to meet a nicer more humble player. He was so obliging even though he had just lost a tough match, and spoke about his aspirations for the forthcoming clay court season. I really liked him. Truly hard to believe that he would take a diuretic long term to mask something. Will he ever confess the truth?

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 11:39 AM
Well it looks good for the ATP stats that they are making an effort to catch people on substances. It even looks better that we have a high profile player as well.

Too bad Cañas didn't have UK, USA or AUS next to his initials.

warfreakbix
08-09-2005, 11:42 AM
that's a bit too cyptic for me, what does that mean George?

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 11:43 AM
that's a bit too cyptic for me, what does that mean George?

Are you serious?

warfreakbix
08-09-2005, 12:07 PM
I was. But if I remember correctly US' other sports bodies have a very strict ruling against any performance enhancing drugs used by its members (a major exception here is baseball and it might be also the reason why its losing the fans). So I think it's a bit unfair to tag US or for that matter UK & Australia that its sports bodies will window dress such type of offense. Unless of course you have prior samples you can base this to.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 12:12 PM
I was. But if I remember correctly US' other sports bodies have a very strict ruling against any performance enhancing drugs used by its members (a major exception here is baseball and it might be also the reason why its losing the fans). So I think it's a bit unfair to tag US or for that matter UK & Australia that its sports bodies will window dress such type of offense. Unless of course you have prior samples you can base this too.

I wasn't actually talking about any other sports actually at all. I am not saying Cañas is innocent at all, just the fact if he came from somewhere else it would be better for him.

Carl Lewis an example of a covered up positive dope offence and would you like some others. It's the whole thing that every player from Argentina will be targeted, and what doping doesn't go on in other countries, but hey "we" have caught a top player, "we" must be doing something right.

NicoFan
08-09-2005, 01:11 PM
Too bad Cañas didn't have UK, USA or AUS next to his initials.

For once GWH, you and I are going to agree.

This never ever would have happened if he was from the UK, US or Australia. The players from those countries are either never accused, or in the case of Greg Rusedski, get off.

I just read an article in Radio Cooperativa in Chile, and without going into everything because I'm sure someone already posted it, but I believe Canas when he says that he is innocent - he took the drugs, but it was under a doctor's supervision.

This just isn't a case of the blatant use of steroids like we see in baseball.

The good news is that he is appealing - the bad news is that he'll lose again because he's from Argentina. :sad:

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 01:15 PM
if a black man is lynched in the south do you go looking for other black men to blame or do you go to the white folks with the white hoods branded KKK on?
the argentines have been suspicious and so suspicion will always be on them.
if when greg rusedski failed a drug test then Henman had a suspicious result then Murray, i think the UK would become a suspicious nation!

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:20 PM
if a black man is lynched in the south do you go looking for other black men to blame or do you go to the white folks with the white hoods branded KKK on?
the argentines have been suspicious and so suspicion will always be on them.
if when greg rusedski failed a drug test then Henman had a suspicious result then Murray, i think the UK would become a suspicious nation!

What does that argument have to do with it? Ok, so Nalbandian and Gaudio deserve extra scrutiny, just because they are from Argentina? That's the way your argument reads thank you for that clear.

Yes, something I forgot only Czechs and Argentines are guilty of doping offences and only players from Eastern Europe fix matches.

Rusedski failed a drug test, but hey good on him for getting away with it.

Jim Jones
08-09-2005, 01:28 PM
Coria if I'm not mistaken initially got banned from tennis for 2 years but then had it reduced to seven months after appeal which probably will result in around the samething for Canas.

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 01:29 PM
I was. But if I remember correctly US' other sports bodies have a very strict ruling against any performance enhancing drugs used by its members (a major exception here is baseball and it might be also the reason why its losing the fans). So I think it's a bit unfair to tag US or for that matter UK & Australia that its sports bodies will window dress such type of offense. Unless of course you have prior samples you can base this to.

Are NBA players tested?

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 01:30 PM
Here's part of the rogue's gallery

1986: Drug testing introduced at Wimbledon
1994: ITF sets up official testing programme
1996: Mats Wilander and Karel Novacek test positive for cocaine
1998: Petr Korda tests positive for nandrolone
2001: Juan Ignacio Chela and Guillermo Coria fail doping tests
2002-3: Seven failed drugs tests. Players later cleared after ATP admit error
2003: Mariano Puerta banned for nine months for taking clenbuterol
2004: Rusedski tests positive. Later cleared by ATP
2005: Canas fails doping test. banned 2 years.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:30 PM
Coria if I'm not mistaken initially got banned from tennis for 2 years but then had it reduced to seven months after appeal which probably will result in around the samething for Canas.

The cases are different and the details of the Coria case are on the 1st page here, Coria did exactly the same thing as Rusedski, but took the sentence.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Here's the rogue's gallery

1986: Drug testing introduced at Wimbledon
1994: ITF sets up official testing programme
1996: Mats Wilander and Karel Novacek test positive for cocaine
1998: Petr Korda tests positive for nandrolone
2001: Juan Ignacio Chela and Guillermo Coria fail doping tests
2002-3: Seven failed drugs tests. Players later cleared after ATP admit error
2003: Mariano Puerta banned for nine months for taking clenbuterol
2004: Rusedski tests positive. Later cleared by ATP
2005: Canas fails doping test. banned 2 years.

There are others as well and Ulihrach should be on that list, plus some of the lower rungs that very few people care about.

Paul Banks
08-09-2005, 01:33 PM
I believe Canas when he says that he is innocent - he took the drugs, but it was under a doctor's supervision.


How does that make him innocent?

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 01:34 PM
There are others as well and Ulihrach should be on that list, plus some of the lower rungs that very few people care about.

bohdan was one of the "2002-3: Seven failed drugs tests. Players later cleared after ATP admit error." Maybe he was the only eastern european amongst Americans and wester europeans (he was the only one named)

Paul Banks
08-09-2005, 01:35 PM
Simon Larose tested positive (coke) and decided to retire ;)

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:37 PM
For once GWH, you and I are going to agree.

The good news is that he is appealing - the bad news is that he'll lose again because he's from Argentina. :sad:

The thing is it doesn't help he is an Argentine, but at the same time, if there is an appeal to be launched, it will need to be presented a lot better than it was in this case.

The thing is doping is a science and just like any activity, the ones with the best help and knowhow and higher up the chain will not get caught at all, this of course depending on the relative importance of the people associated.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:38 PM
bohdan was one of the "2002-3: Seven failed drugs tests. Players later cleared after ATP admit error." Maybe he was the only eastern european amongst Americans and wester europeans (he was the only one named)

Of course no double standard exists when Coria and Rusedski get done for the same thing, one gets off and the other one doesn't.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 01:38 PM
wat i meant ws that people the you and me will always be suspicious of argentines because of the less-than-perfect record when it comes to drug test. the same way the bookies are suspicious of Eastern European players

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:40 PM
wat i meant ws that people the you and me will always be suspicious of argentines because of the less-than-perfect record when it comes to drug test. the same way the bookies are suspicious of Eastern European players

Actually I think the whole tour is doped up to some extent, just the smarter ones won't get caught.

You spoke for yourself and don't speak for me.

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 01:40 PM
Of course no double standard exists when Coria and Rusedski get done for the same thing, one gets off and the other one doesn't.
in coria's case was the stuff administered by the ATP? in rusedski's it was outrageous --they tried to shirk responsibility EVEN after acknowledging that they gave it to the guy.

willie
08-09-2005, 01:40 PM
sad for guillermo, but he has to pay his crime, and 2 years is a good panishment.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:42 PM
in coria's case was the stuff administered by the ATP? in rusedski's it was outrageous --they tried to shirk responsibility EVEN after acknowledging that they gave it to the guy.

If Coria was British, then no ban. As I said to Mr Jones the Coria case is on the 1st page of GM and can read it all for yourself.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 01:43 PM
Actually I think the whole tour is doped up to some extent, just the smarter ones won't get caught.

You spoke for yourself and don't speak for me.
i wasnt speaking for you the you an me means the ordinary tennis fan with no power

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:44 PM
i wasnt speaking for you the you an me means the ordinary tennis fan with no power

Ok, so stereotyping is alright, without judging on the respective individuals then?

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 01:46 PM
If Coria was British, then no ban. As I said to Mr Jones the Coria case is on the 1st page of GM and can read it all for yourself.
yes there is a double standard- I posted earlier that hewitt wouldn't face any charges because of the Aus. lobby
coria's case has more than the nationality difference from rusedski's in that --to the best of my understanding-- the ATP did not administer the drugs to him themselves. he then becomes responsible alone for anything he took.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 01:50 PM
Ok, so stereotyping is alright, without judging on the respective individuals then?
wat i mean is if another argentine was tested positive people will kinda off shrug it off but imagine if hewitt was tested positive or Henman people would be far more surprised
if thats wat you think is stereotyping so be it but its just human nature

NicoFan
08-09-2005, 01:51 PM
Here's the entire article from Radio Cooperativa in Chile (its a translation so apologies for some of the wording).

I just think there's a huge difference between something that is prescribed by a doctor (as in Puerta's case for asthma), and the guys in baseball who intentionally want to bulk up and use steroids repeatedly.

I'm not going to defend a guy like those in baseball - I think the ATP has to have a better system in place.

From Radio Cooperativa:

The Argentine tennis player assured that the sanction of two years for doping will not signify the end of his career and indicated that will appeal.

The Argentine Guillermo Canes (10º of the world) considered that the suspension of two years that the ATP imposed him by doping positive is a "political decision" of a company that does not want to recognize that its controls "have many failures".

Canes assured that this sanction will not signify the end of its career and said that, in the next days, will appeal this decision.

"Is a very difficult moment of my career and I am totally in disagreement with the suspension. The ATP was mistaken with me. I am a clean player and I arrived where I am with a lot of claw and effort", emphasized Canes.

The Argentine player received a suspension of two years, the maximum one contemplated for cases of doping, after he was found in his urine remainders of a dieretic in a control performed in February passed, during the tournament of Acapulco.

Canes he said that he cannot deny that he have itself found "a medical quantity of a diurético" in his urine, but he indicated that in the judgment al that was submitted by the court of the ATP of New York showed that the medicine was prescribed by a doctor vouched for by the tournament, that subsequently did not report it happened.

"We show that the system antidopaje of the ATP, that costs a lot money, has great quantity of failures, but the same that decided my sanction do not want to recognize it and from there the suspension", underlined the tennis player.

Al to enumerate the failures, Canes alluded, among others, to "medical that prescribe medicines or attend players and it do not they report" to the authorities of the ATP.

"The ATP is concealing a system antidopaje that has many failures", insisted the Argentine, that recognized that its "only negligence" was "do not I check" what the doctor prescribed him in Acapulco.

The tennis player, of 27 years and winner of six tournaments of the professional circuit, commented that never thought that the sanction was going to be "so hard", although was declared confident in the appeal that will present their lawyers before the one that defined since an independent court and done not pay by the ATP".

Guillermo Vilas, considered the best Argentine tennis player of the history, said that the news fell "as a bucket cold water", after qualifying to Canes of "pure and loyal".

"Is sad for the Argentine tennis and is a very hard sanction, since Canes did not have history. Sadly I could not call anyone since could have explained a little more the history", added.

"If there is a boy that has had the clean life, that is Guillermo Canas and I to have liked to say that", added.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:54 PM
yes there is a double standard- I posted earlier that hewitt wouldn't face any charges because of the Aus. lobby
coria's case has more than the nationality difference from rusedski's in that --to the best of my understanding-- the ATP did not administer the drugs to him themselves. he then becomes responsible alone for anything he took.

Here it is Hewitt and Nadal have bulked up quite a lot ( no I don't think they are doped up) in a shortish amount of time, guaranteed if one of them failed a dope test, it would not be followed through, why their market value is that much higher.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 01:57 PM
wat i mean is if another argentine was tested positive people will kinda off shrug it off but imagine if hewitt was tested positive or Henman people would be far more surprised
if thats wat you think is stereotyping so be it but its just human nature

You're still stereotyping all Argentine players are suspicious when guys like Calleri, Nalbandian, Gaudio, Acasuso and Zabaleta have done nothing wrong.

The only reason would be if Hewitt tested positive is if they followed through and announced it publicly.

star
08-09-2005, 02:11 PM
Well, I'm shocked and saddened. I don't want to believe that he is guilty and I might never fully, but the evidence is pretty incriminating based on the reports. This definitely sends a message to the rest of the tour, but I think 2 years is too harsh.

Just think that in baseball you're out for a week or so. :rolleyes: :fiery: Meanwhile, Guillermo's career is ended.

And I wonder, as others already mentioned, what would have happened if it was from Agassi, Federer, Roddick, or another huge personality on the tour. Same punishment - not likely.


Testing in baseball is a joke. Imo, drugs have absolutely destroyed baseball. And owners turn their heads in the mistaken belief that all fans want are behemoths hitting home runs. A 10 day suspension for Palmiero is just nutty. Particularly after his finger waving performance in front of congress. All those congressmen who lapped up his lies and distained Canseco look pretty foolish now.

Experimentee
08-09-2005, 02:25 PM
Guillermo :sad:
I am sad for him, and it could be the end of his career. He deserves it if he really was taking performance enhancers, but the penalty still seems a bit harsh. Coria, Chela and Puerta actually tested positive for performance enhancers and got less than a years suspension each.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 02:27 PM
Guillermo :sad:
I am sad for him, and it could be the end of his career. He deserves it if he really was taking performance enhancers, but the penalty still seems a bit harsh. Coria, Chela and Puerta actually tested positive for performance enhancers and got less than a years suspension each.

Well someone has to be the scapegoat, and all the better if he is Argentine. :)

Vale
08-09-2005, 02:31 PM
He'll be missed, and I'm disappointed for him, but has anyone realised that Argentine players are always doing drugs? Maybe they've used them to get where they are in the rankings.
I've just seen your post. This is libel! It is completely unfair on Gaudio, Nalbandian, Zabaleta, Calleri, Acasuso, Mónaco and so many others! Watch what you say before slandering players who have an impeccable record.

Denaon
08-09-2005, 02:34 PM
wat i mean is if another argentine was tested positive people will kinda off shrug it off but imagine if hewitt was tested positive or Henman people would be far more surprised
if thats wat you think is stereotyping so be it but its just human nature
Just wait for another failed doping test and see if it's argie or not. I'm positive that IF argies are on dope the rest are on it too. The fact is that equalling argies=dopers has been already established as a fact and noone would matter if that happens again ,f.i. to Gaudio (that could easily explain why he won RG 2004, right?)
Dumbasses. This antidoping system is full of bullshit. I'm sick of it.

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 02:34 PM
I've just seen your post. This is libel! It is completely unfair on Gaudio, Nalbandian, Zabaleta, Calleri, Acasuso, Mónaco and so many others! Watch what you say before slandering players who have an impeccable record.

He's just a moron.

It'd be me like accusing every German person to have nazi beliefs, but you have forgotten the memo and you should learn it quickly.

star
08-09-2005, 02:41 PM
Guillermo :sad:
I am sad for him, and it could be the end of his career. He deserves it if he really was taking performance enhancers, but the penalty still seems a bit harsh. Coria, Chela and Puerta actually tested positive for performance enhancers and got less than a years suspension each.

I've thought about that too. But, for one thing, those players didn't attempt to evade the testing policy -- It's not unusual to have a stiffer penalty for evasion than for testing positive outright -- Secondly, each of them had the "contaminated supplement" story that probably wasn't true, but at least they had an actual substance they could point to that did not have the banned substance listed as an ingredient but did contain it. Thirdly, Canas was already on warning that another positive test would lead to a harsh penalty. Knowing what I know about drug testing, his previous test that found his sample dirty but at a level below the cut off standard, Canas just got lucky that time around.

Paul Banks
08-09-2005, 02:44 PM
About 80% of replies in this thread are baseless speculations.

Denaon
08-09-2005, 02:47 PM
About 80% of replies in this thread are baseless speculations.
I agree

Experimentee
08-09-2005, 02:57 PM
Well someone has to be the scapegoat, and all the better if he is Argentine. :)

Even if the ATP does have something against Argentines, which I dont believe, they werent the ones who put drugs in his system, and they werent responsible for the drugs found in Coria, Chela and Puerta. If they had never taken drugs, they would have nothing to be punished about, so there is no point trying to blame a conspiracy against certain countries. Its their own fault in the first place.

Everyone is innocent until they test positive, and its not helpful to keep insinuating that players from Aus, UK and US are on drugs because theres absolutely nothing to suggest that. I have heard of athletes being banned for drugs from those countries, so its not like they are all being protected. And if those athletes werent protected what makes you think only the tennis players are?

Experimentee
08-09-2005, 03:03 PM
I've thought about that too. But, for one thing, those players didn't attempt to evade the testing policy -- It's not unusual to have a stiffer penalty for evasion than for testing positive outright -- Secondly, each of them had the "contaminated supplement" story that probably wasn't true, but at least they had an actual substance they could point to that did not have the banned substance listed as an ingredient but did contain it. Thirdly, Canas was already on warning that another positive test would lead to a harsh penalty. Knowing what I know about drug testing, his previous test that found his sample dirty but at a level below the cut off standard, Canas just got lucky that time around.

I suppose that is a logical explanation :)

Action Jackson
08-09-2005, 03:06 PM
Even if the ATP does have something against Argentines, which I dont believe, they werent the ones who put drugs in his system, and they werent responsible for the drugs found in Coria, Chela and Puerta. If they had never taken drugs, they would have nothing to be punished about, so there is no point trying to blame a conspiracy against certain countries. Its their own fault in the first place.

When did I say that Coria, Chela, Puerta and Cañas were innocent? Have I actually said that? Well the ATP have to make it look like they actually care about doping and why did it take so long for the testing result and verdict to come out, it could have been done a lot earlier than it was. The fact that Cañas was in the top 10 at the time, makes the ATP look even better as an organisation that is getting tough.

Everyone is innocent until they test positive, and its not helpful to keep insinuating that players from Aus, UK and US are on drugs because theres absolutely nothing to suggest that. I have heard of athletes being banned for drugs from those countries, so its not like they are all being protected. And if those athletes werent protected what makes you think only the tennis players are?

Ok, who is the dominant force and organisation within the game? Just like any science, and doping is a science, wouldn't it be the individuals with the best access to substances, masking agents be always be ahead of the testers. Hence the areas that provide most of the finance are going to use their clout to help one of their own get out of a potentially damaging situation.

If this is the case with the example that I used before, do you think Hewitt , Agassi or Nadal if they failed a drug test, wouldn't have this covered up, unless it was so much over the limit, that the ATP had to act? If you think they would act in the same manner, then why is this case?

Denaon
08-09-2005, 03:12 PM
Even if the ATP does have something against Argentines, which I dont believe, they werent the ones who put drugs in his system, and they werent responsible for the drugs found in Coria, Chela and Puerta. If they had never taken drugs, they would have nothing to be punished about, so there is no point trying to blame a conspiracy against certain countries. Its their own fault in the first place.

Everyone is innocent until they test positive, and its not helpful to keep insinuating that players from Aus, UK and US are on drugs because theres absolutely nothing to suggest that. I have heard of athletes being banned for drugs from those countries, so its not like they are all being protected. And if those athletes werent protected what makes you think only the tennis players are?

Now I belive there's a fact, that all players take suplements given by their team. Just as happened to Coria, those supplements could be contaminated, and this great antidoping system would find a positive out of this test. It has proved to be fallible. How come no other player, among them I personally include Agassi, or any other important player has not tested positive? And I'm talking about statistics, is there a chance that testing positive has a much higher percentage in players from places like Argentina or from those not so popular?

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 03:16 PM
Now I belive there's a fact, that all players take suplements given by their team. Just as happened to Coria, those supplements could be contaminated, and this great antidoping system would find a positive out of this test. It has proved to be fallible. How come no other player, among them I personally include Agassi, or any other important player has not tested positive? And I'm talking about statistics, is there a chance that testing positive has a much higher percentage in players from places like Argentina or from those not so popular?
argentinian players are very popular. agassi, nadal, federer, roddick are tested regularly and they have passed now if the claim that 50% of the tour is juiced up is true then tough luck to Canas who couldnt hide it as well as the rest.
p.s. this was not his first transgression and he attempted to cover it up.
dude read the atp report and then talk.

*julie*
08-09-2005, 03:35 PM
I think it's in the interest of the ATP to eradicate doping which means submitting ALL the players weither they are argentines, or american etc.... Many sports suffer from dirty image so I trust the ATP not to protect any players from those testings.

And sorry for the fans of Canas but I cannot agree with their complaints about this suspension. I am just thinking about all the clean players fighting day by day to have good results...

And sorry if my reply is a baseless speculation ;)

RebelNYC
08-09-2005, 03:45 PM
It is a harsh penalty, two years. I guess they want to get the doping out of tennis,
and if other players see such a harsh penalty maybe it will stop the drug taking. It is
sad, I think two years is a long time in the life and career of a tennis player. But if
you do the crime, you do the time.

Bilbo
08-09-2005, 03:48 PM
Willy, you better save this situation!!! :mad:

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 03:52 PM
Willy, you better save this situation!!! :mad:
how? ;)

Bilbo
08-09-2005, 03:58 PM
how? ;)

Proving that he is innocent. It's not over until it's over.

His fighting spirit will get him through this.

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 04:01 PM
Proving that he is innocent. It's not over until it's over.

His fighting spirit will get him through this.

All we need now is the final twist, that the mystery doctor was actually planted by the ATP and asked to give him a diuretic. Barring that, I don't see how any fight can get him out of this.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 04:03 PM
Proving that he is innocent. It's not over until it's over.

His fighting spirit will get him through this.
he's a druggie who was caught taking a masking agent. he's fucked!!

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 04:15 PM
argentinian players are very popular. agassi, nadal, federer, roddick are tested regularly and they have passed now if the claim that 50% of the tour is juiced up is true then tough luck to Canas who couldnt hide it as well as the rest.
p.s. this was not his first transgression and he attempted to cover it up.
dude read the atp report and then talk.

The other attempt was a nandrolone case (which so many players were affected by it, because of contaminated supplements, as Rusesdki managed to prove). So I don't think it is relevant. In any case, I not defending Cañas. I really think that his defense was baseless.

Denaon
08-09-2005, 04:29 PM
argentinian players are very popular. agassi, nadal, federer, roddick are tested regularly and they have passed now if the claim that 50% of the tour is juiced up is true then tough luck to Canas who couldnt hide it as well as the rest.
p.s. this was not his first transgression and he attempted to cover it up.
dude read the atp report and then talk.
No, dude, the fact is that IF THEY TESTED POSITIVE, ATP WON'T TELL , do you know that information is one of the greatest powers???.......well how could you know living in the biggest liar, brain washing country in the world, dude :rolleyes:

LoveFifteen
08-09-2005, 04:42 PM
A guilty Argentine player gets busted ... and yet somehow it all manages to return to the same old, tired theme: the United States sucks. :rolleyes:

vogus
08-09-2005, 04:56 PM
No, dude, the fact is that IF THEY TESTED POSITIVE, ATP WON'T TELL , do you know that information is one of the greatest powers???.......well how could you know living in the biggest liar, brain washing country in the world, dude :rolleyes:


yeah, because whatever country you live in is better, right? :rolleyes:

revolution
08-09-2005, 05:08 PM
He's just a moron.

It'd be me like accusing every German person to have nazi beliefs, but you have forgotten the memo and you should learn it quickly.


It's better to be a moron and enjoy life rather than not be a moron and live a crappy life :cool:

SwissMister1
08-09-2005, 05:08 PM
I had to get tested after the last time I was in Mexico, fortunately it came back negative :) If a diuretic was the only thing Guillermo tested positive for after a week in Acapulco at Spring Break time, hes a lucky man...

NyGeL
08-09-2005, 05:11 PM
ATP is very unfair.

I think this is a political decission. Also 2 years? that's crazy.

Hope Cañas can do something at the next jury (from the athletes association o or something like that)

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 05:37 PM
he's a druggie who was caught taking a masking agent. he's fucked!!
now will anyone explain why this deserves a badrep?
right..........bad rep the person whos telling you the painful truth :rolleyes:
he's a druggie who was caught taking a masking agent.

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 05:44 PM
now will anyone explain why this deserves a badrep?
right..........bad rep the person whos telling you the painful truth :rolleyes:
he's a druggie who was caught taking a masking agent.

Your posts are a bit aggressive toward Argentine players. I wouldn't be surprised if someone from Argentine gave you a bad rep. In my view, you are setereotyping a bit (even if agree with you that it seems that Cañas deserved the suspension).

Raquel
08-09-2005, 05:47 PM
Here it is Hewitt and Nadal have bulked up quite a lot ( no I don't think they are doped up) in a shortish amount of time, guaranteed if one of them failed a dope test, it would not be followed through, why their market value is that much higher.
In Lleyton's case he had been working on his upper body and doing a tough weight regime for months. It was only when he turned up in Australia this year wearing those sleeveless shirts that people were talking about how he had suddenly got bigger arms but late last year when he changed his shirt you could see he was getting bigger over time. The sleeveless shirts just showed it more.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 05:55 PM
its not agressive towards argentine players, its aggression against dopers!
he was a druggie (previous suspicions) who took a masking agent (no adequate explanation) and he is fucked (2 years suspension).
Quit being so defensive and admit that he made a mistake and the atp regardless of whether they have bias against the argentines or not did not give him a masking agent and did the right thing. there is no massive conspiracy against the argentines. i betcha federer isnt moaning about the number of times they had to test him! the atp is attempting to clean out the sport and thus heavy suspensions for bad results.its not about americans, the british or the australians its about willy canas and his piss that was tainted!

Raquel
08-09-2005, 05:56 PM
Well someone has to be the scapegoat, and all the better if he is Argentine. :)
A scapegoat is someome who takes the blame for other people and that's not the case here. While I think 2 years is harsh compared to other bans given out in the past, I don't think if he had been British, American or Australian it would not have been made public or he would have got off. I don't think there is a conspiracy to make scapegoats out of Argentinians either. Surely if you don't take illegal substances in the first place, then you don't give the ATP any reason to make you a scapegoat. After reading through his defence I'm sympathising with him a lot less and becoming less convinced that the big bad ATP are trying to punish him extra hard because he is from Argentina.

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 05:59 PM
its not agressive towards argentine players, its aggression against dopers!
he was a druggie (previous suspicions) who took a masking agent (no adequate explanation) and he is fucked (2 years suspension).
Quit being so defensive and admit that he made a mistake and the atp regardless of whether they have bias against the argentines or not did not give him a masking agent and did the right thing. there is no massive conspiracy against the argentines. i betcha federer is moaning about the number of times they had to test him! the atp is attempting to clean out the sport and thus heavy suspensions for bad results.its not about americans, the british or the australians its about willy canas and his piss that was tainted!

Of course there is not a massive conspiracy. But take the Coria's case. His suspension was grossly unfair.

Denaon
08-09-2005, 06:01 PM
A guilty Argentine player gets busted ... and yet somehow it all manages to return to the same old, tired theme: the United States sucks. :rolleyes:
I'm just stating something that's an obvious truth......ignorance is not only the lack of information, it might be the result of bad information too. And I don't care about your beloved country, I just say that most of you cannot tell right from wrong coz that's what you've learnt thru the years and for that I and the rest of the world are sorry (and screwed) But I meant no political discusion when I said that.
I mean that statistically speaking, as these test showed to fail, some or at least a few of the most important players from the last years till now must have tested positive and we'll never know about it. Let's face it, if Andre (example) tested positive, it's almost......how many... 15 years? of tennis that would be judged and thrown away, I'm not saying that Cañas has not tested positive (though I believe it must be a mistake) but it certainly won't harm the Tennis world that much as if Andre was the suspended.

And vogus, you should study harder....look at my flag.....and if don't get the country, I'll wait for you until you've finished college, maybe at that time you can figure where I live.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 06:10 PM
I'm just stating something that's an obvious truth......ignorance is not only the lack of information, it might be the result of bad information too. And I don't care about your beloved country, I just say that most of you cannot tell right from wrong coz that's what you've learnt thru the years and for that I and the rest of the world are sorry (and screwed) But I meant no political discusion when I said that.
I mean that statistically speaking, as these test showed to fail, some or at least a few of the most important players from the last years till now must have tested positive and we'll never know about it. Let's face it, if Andre (example) tested positive, it's almost......how many... 15 years? of tennis that would be judged and thrown away, I'm not saying that Cañas has not tested positive (though I believe it must be a mistake) but it certainly won't harm the Tennis world that much as if Andre was the suspended.

And vogus, you should study harder....look at my flag.....and if don't get the country, I'll wait for you until you've finished college, maybe at that time you can figure where I live.
Quit venting on the Americans this has absolutely nothing to do with us!!

daze11
08-09-2005, 06:12 PM
i dont know if it was already printed here...i checked 5 or 6 pages & didnt see it, so if its already been printed, ignore.

this is from tennisweek...dated tomorrow???....

Canas: ATP Made A Mistake

By Tennis Week
08/10/2005



Guillermo Canas isn't claiming complete innocence, but he does believe the ATP is guilty of making a mistake in suspending him two years for failing a drug test.


The ATP announced on Monday Canas has been suspended two years, fined $276,070 in prize money and forced to forfeit 525 singles and 95 doubles ranking points for testing positive for the banned diuretic hydrochlorothiazide at the Acapulco clay-court event in February. Today, the 10th-ranked Canas said the ATP made a mistake in his case.

The 27-year-old Canas claims he ingested hydrochlorothiazide from a medication given to him by Acapulco tournament staff with the ATP's approval.

"The ATP have made a mistake in my case," Canas said in a news conference today. "It was a lapse by the whole system at the Acapulco tournament. It was people from the tournament who went to buy me the medicines with the guarantees of the ATP."

Canas, who will be eligible to return to the ATP Tour on June 11th, 2007, called the ATP's anti-doping tests into question and said while he considers the punishment excessive, he will return to the Tour.

"I never in my life thought they would give me the maximum sentence," Canas said. "They're trying to carry out justice with a system which is not 100 percent certain and efficient, and which makes mistakes. My career is not going to end, that's for sure. I'm suffering a great injustice."

Canas is the fourth Argentine to fail a drug test in the past four years. He joins compatriots Juan Ignacio Chela, 2004 Roland Garros runner-up Guillermo Coria and French Open finalist Mariano Puerta in drawing an ATP suspension for violating anti-doping rules.

"I don't think there's a conspiracy," Canas said. "It's more of a political decision than a decision against my country. There's a lot of money at stake."

Socket
08-09-2005, 06:27 PM
Looks like that "Where's Willy?" t-shirt the Fanatics were wearing during the Davis Cup tie was more prophetic than anybody thought.

alfonsojose
08-09-2005, 06:28 PM
Looks like that "Where's Willy?" t-shirt the Fanatics were wearing during the Davis Cup tie was more prophetic than anybody thought.
Hi, Socket. What's wrong with Lleyton :shrug: ?

vogus
08-09-2005, 06:29 PM
And vogus, you should study harder....look at my flag.....and if don't get the country, I'll wait for you until you've finished college, maybe at that time you can figure where I live.


well like i said, you must be a genius, because your country is so much less brainwashed than ours, right? :lol:

El Legenda
08-09-2005, 06:33 PM
i dont know if it was already printed here...i checked 5 or 6 pages & didnt see it, so if its already been printed, ignore.

this is from tennisweek...dated tomorrow???....

Canas: ATP Made A Mistake

By Tennis Week
08/10/2005



Guillermo Canas isn't claiming complete innocence, but he does believe the ATP is guilty of making a mistake in suspending him two years for failing a drug test.


The ATP announced on Monday Canas has been suspended two years, fined $276,070 in prize money and forced to forfeit 525 singles and 95 doubles ranking points for testing positive for the banned diuretic hydrochlorothiazide at the Acapulco clay-court event in February. Today, the 10th-ranked Canas said the ATP made a mistake in his case.

The 27-year-old Canas claims he ingested hydrochlorothiazide from a medication given to him by Acapulco tournament staff with the ATP's approval.

"The ATP have made a mistake in my case," Canas said in a news conference today. "It was a lapse by the whole system at the Acapulco tournament. It was people from the tournament who went to buy me the medicines with the guarantees of the ATP."

Canas, who will be eligible to return to the ATP Tour on June 11th, 2007, called the ATP's anti-doping tests into question and said while he considers the punishment excessive, he will return to the Tour.

"I never in my life thought they would give me the maximum sentence," Canas said. "They're trying to carry out justice with a system which is not 100 percent certain and efficient, and which makes mistakes. My career is not going to end, that's for sure. I'm suffering a great injustice."

Canas is the fourth Argentine to fail a drug test in the past four years. He joins compatriots Juan Ignacio Chela, 2004 Roland Garros runner-up Guillermo Coria and French Open finalist Mariano Puerta in drawing an ATP suspension for violating anti-doping rules.

"I don't think there's a conspiracy," Canas said. "It's more of a political decision than a decision against my country. There's a lot of money at stake."

quit crying, take it like a men, ATP doesnt just give out 2 year suspension out of nowhere.

Aguante_el_Gato
08-09-2005, 06:42 PM
in my opinion, drugs problem is about particular players with full name and not a matter of countries. It isn't possible to said that all Argentine players are drug addicts, cause the same mechanism could be used against players of other nations, by any ominous act committed by a compatriot.
According to the process and sanction, I agree with those conjectures that say that nationality doesn't help Cañas in this case; and I also believe in rumours saying that, during last years, some players have been, unofficially, "invited" to rest 2 or 3 months .... (then appear mysterious and sudden injuries, etc). I repeat, these are conjectures, and I believe them possible, then some of the journalists who have affirmed it here, they have very good sources, and much contact with players.
In this particular case, there are contradictions and serious crossed accusations between Cañas and the ATP.
is very strange that by a side Cañas says:
"I am sure that the ATP was mistaken. Was a diurétic, it is truth. But there was no another concerned substance. Doctor's system failed in Acapulco. We demonstrated that they gave me a prescription , that a person of the organization went to buy the remedy to me. My negligence was not to check with the same prescription. But doctors didn't pass the report that I was treated by them. There were other players nonregistered by the same doctor. The ATP presented/displayed false tests "
Also he shot against Richard Ings, who manages ATP antidoping controls. "Ings never is in the judgments and this time he was present, besides to call Acapulco's doctors to declare that they had not treated me. We demonstrated that ATP system has faults: they don't accept it because they spend fortunes on it. I waited for an impartial failure, but it wasn't and this is not finished."
"I don't believe in a persecution generalized towards the Argentineans. The court was not impartial, because it is paid and chosen by the own ATP.
There is another player who, in Acapulco has ingested the same remedy that I, I cannot say who is, but if the doctor hadn't put it in the report, today he could be sanctioned."
On the other hand: The ATP and the doctors deny that Cañas had been treated.
Although I could be mistaken, but since it smells rotten fish, personally I choose to continue believing in Willy. But if he were really guilty, I believe that the sanction is correct.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 06:44 PM
quit crying, take it like a men, ATP doesnt just give out 2 year suspension out of nowhere.
that just turned me on!! :devil:

Socket
08-09-2005, 06:53 PM
Hi, Socket. What's wrong with Lleyton :shrug: ?
Hi, alfonsojose. From what I've read, he has gastroenteritis. :sad:

Blame Canada! :mad:

oneandonlyhsn
08-09-2005, 06:54 PM
If the ATP are right, and canas is guilty, he must be a total sleeze.

He was trying to blame a tournament doctor for prescribing the diuretic for him "for a sore throat", which totally defies belief.

Needless to say, the tourny doc denied seeing him, or writing a script for something that you can buy over the counter in Mexico. And of course, the tourny staff person who supposedly collected the script for him can't be located.

Cheating is bad, but trying to drag others down so u can save ur skin really stinks...........

:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

oneandonlyhsn
08-09-2005, 06:55 PM
Hi, alfonsojose. From what I've read, he has gastroenteritis. :sad:

Blame Canada! :mad:

Dont blame Canada, Its where he went on his honeymoon

Socket
08-09-2005, 07:01 PM
The ATP has become a laughing stock because of the false positives and the irregularities in the past. If and when they caught somebody red-handed and thought they had an air-tight case, especially with a masker, it was a foregone conclusion that they were going to just hammer the guy to show how tough they are with dopers. Of course, the fact that the guy was Canas, who was already walking around with cloud over his head, just made it easier.

nobama
08-09-2005, 07:02 PM
Actually I think the whole tour is doped up to some extent, just the smarter ones won't get caught.What evidence do you have to support this statement? We're not supposed to stereotype Argentines (which I agree with), but it's ok to stereotype the entire tour? :scratch:

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 07:04 PM
The ATP has become a laughing stock because of the false positives and the irregularities in the past. If and when they caught somebody red-handed and thought they had an air-tight case, especially with a masker, it was a foregone conclusion that they were going to just hammer the guy to show how tough they are with dopers. Of course, the fact that the guy was Canas, who was already walking around with cloud over his head, just made it easier.
I didn't know about this. Do you know who they've caught with a false positive? I'm surprised because they take two samples which would reduce the odds of this.

Socket
08-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Dont blame Canada, Its where he went on his honeymoon
It's a joke (South Park!).

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 07:07 PM
Hi, alfonsojose. From what I've read, he has gastroenteritis. :sad:

Blame Canada! :mad:
maybe he is going to be treated with one of those canadian diuretics

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 07:09 PM
I didn't know about this. Do you know who they've caught with a false positive? I'm surprised because they take two samples which would reduce the odds of this.

A lot of players with nandrolone... Most names didn't come out though (fortunately) but for one Czeck player (I don't recall his name now).

Socket
08-09-2005, 07:12 PM
I didn't know about this. Do you know who they've caught with a false positive? I'm surprised because they take two samples which would reduce the odds of this.
The false positives were written up in the WADA report, which might be buried in Tennis Week's archives. Contamination of samples can occur before they're in the lab's possession (the tester mishandles the samples or the shipper doesn't keep them at the right temperatures or something), so it's quite possible for both samples to be false positives, even when they're tested by different labs.

Socket
08-09-2005, 07:12 PM
maybe he is going to be treated with one of those canadian diuretics
I believe that's called Canadian beer. ;)

mitalidas
08-09-2005, 07:15 PM
A lot of players with nandrolone... Most names didn't come out though (fortunately) but for one Czeck player (I don't recall his name now). bohdan probably

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 07:29 PM
What evidence do you have to support this statement? We're not supposed to stereotype Argentines (which I agree with), but it's ok to stereotype the entire tour? :scratch:
i dont think its stereotyping f you include everyone! ;)

LoveFifteen
08-09-2005, 09:28 PM
I'm just stating something that's an obvious truth......ignorance is not only the lack of information, it might be the result of bad information too. And I don't care about your beloved country, I just say that most of you cannot tell right from wrong coz that's what you've learnt thru the years and for that I and the rest of the world are sorry (and screwed)

Oh please! Spare me. Americans can't tell right from wrong ... and therefore, Cañas should NOT get in trouble for having a diuretic in his urine? Maybe we Americans should learn more from you highly moral Argentines. Let's see, what recent Argentine history is common knowledge throughout the world ... la Guerra Sucia, the Falkland Islands War, the "Hand of God", highly moral public officals like Maria Julia Alsogaray & Guido Di Tella :rolleyes: , Maradona's drug use, 4 tennis stars busted for doping, la Crisis (corrupt misuse of billions of dollars in economic aid loans), etc. Would that Argentina could be the moral leader of our world!!! :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm of the opinion that all countries are full of corruption & amoral behavior, and that no country is superior to others.

There is absolutely no reason Cañas should have had a diuretic for his illness. It makes no sense whatsoever. Did you even read the long version of the ATP report? He's guilty. His defense is a joke. It's a shame he's Argentine because it brings more shame on a country that I love dearly. Mi novio es argentino, y vivíamos en Quilmes.

LoveFifteen
08-09-2005, 09:36 PM
Also, let me just add that I am a fan of many of the Spanish-speaking players on tour, but I find this malevolence directed at the Anglophone players to be petty and childish. Why exactly are so many people slandering Agassi and lauding Cañas?

Trust me. I wish so so so so so badly that he was innocent. But only a blind fan with extreme bias could think that he's innocent.

lau
08-09-2005, 09:41 PM
Please, don´t make me post what recent North American history is common knowledge throughout the world :p (j/k)


Actually, I'm of the opinion that all countries are full of corruption & amoral behavior, and that no country is superior to others.

:yeah:



About the rest..., I`m too sad and I`m too biased to answer you, :lol: (I swear I say this seriously)

Denaon
08-09-2005, 09:43 PM
Oh please! Spare me. Americans can't tell right from wrong ... and therefore, Cañas should NOT get in trouble for having a diuretic in his urine? Maybe we Americans should learn more from you highly moral Argentines. Let's see, what recent Argentine history is common knowledge throughout the world ... la Guerra Sucia, the Falkland Islands War, the "Hand of God", highly moral public officals like Maria Julia Alsogaray & Guido Di Tella :rolleyes: , Maradona's drug use, 4 tennis stars busted for doping, la Crisis (corrupt misuse of billions of dollars in economic aid loans), etc. Would that Argentina could be the moral leader of our world!!! :rolleyes:

Actually, I'm of the opinion that all countries are full of corruption & amoral behavior, and that no country is superior to others.

There is absolutely no reason Cañas should have had a diuretic for his illness. It makes no sense whatsoever. Did you even read the long version of the ATP report? He's guilty. His defense is a joke. It's a shame he's Argentine because it brings more shame on a country that I love dearly. Mi novio es argentino, y vivíamos en Quilmes.
I said that I meant no political discussion here.......
Si viviste aca con tu novio, no entiendo como podes comparar los errores argentinos, con los errores yanquis.....gracias por la bad rep de todas maneras....igualmente te recomiendo que leas bien lo que escribi....no dije que una cosa sea consecuencia de otra......por favor relee todo.

Nimomunz
08-09-2005, 11:26 PM
Good Son Willy

11:35 A.M. EDT

Let me be right up front about this. Everyone says Guillermo Cañas is a really nice guy. He’s polite, friendly, hard-working—a good man of simple tastes (he likes watching the Cartoon Network; simple enough for you?). We’re talking salt of the earth, folks—he’s so accessible that the English speakers on the tour affectionately call him “Willy.”

And does this guy love his mom! Willy once won a car on a game show and he promptly gave it to her.

That Willy . . . he’s such a nice boy.

Guess what? The ATP just threw the book at Good Son Willy for being a doper (ugly details here), which suggests a number of things, the first of which is that Willy probably won that ride by cleaning up on the Argentine version of Jeopardy: “I’ll take ‘Pharmacology’ for five hundred!” And who knows, maybe mom got the car because she’s a nurse with good connections to a few biochemists. In any event, it’s a good thing the other contestants on the game show weren’t Guillermo Coria, Mariano Puerta, or Juan Ignacio Chela, fellow members of the fastest growing segment of the Argentine population: male tennis players suspended for doping. Imagine the maneuvering then (“I’ll take ‘Ben Johnson’s Life’ for one thousand!”).

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’ve had it with these clowns. Get them the heck outta here. The Argentines appear to specialize in being really, really, really, nice guys who do really sleazy stuff—like take illegal drugs and cheat other more talented players out of their rightful places in the game. Kind of makes Good Son Willy seem a bit compromised, no?

Oh sure, drugs won’t transform a Willy Cañas into a Wimbledon champ. But they can give you that critical edge over hundreds of other guys (it’s that close in the mosh-pit of the tour) who may never succeed in tennis because you, Willy boy, are a cheater.

And I’m sick of the excuses these guys repeatedly come up with. It’s pathetic. You listen to the Argentines and you’ve got nothing down BA way except the flu and fizzy cold tablets that—presto!—cause you to test positive for performance enhancing drugs! The excuses are all variations on “My dog ate my homework.” The only thing any dog appears to have eaten down Argentina’s way is the integrity of the dopers, and maybe the contents of a bottle labeled “masking agents.”

You know what? There must be some kind of bent doc or lab in Argentina. And it’s high time for the Argentine government to formally apologize to the sport of tennis for bringing it into disrepute. Oh sure, drug tests can be unreliable (see my posting on this subject on June 15th, accessible in the archives). But what are the chances that the testers screwed up, in the wake of all that went on with Greg Rusedski, new findings on nandrolone, and the ATP’s history with Argentine players? To bring a shaky case against Cañas at this time would violate every institutional goal and instinct of the highly PR-conscious ATP—and just imagine the hit its reputation would take among Latin players if it were found to be somehow persecuting Argentine players?

I can just see Puerta’s and Coria’s agents and lawyers telling him, “I know you just lost a zillion bucks, a chance to win the French Open, and your reputation is in the toilet forever with people who actually care about the integrity of sports. But isn’t the idea of a lawsuit a little extreme?”

Bottom line: These guys have consumed more illegal substances than Courtney Love and Scott Weiland combined, and they’ve created more bad press for Argentina than the pathetic performance of the nation’s armed forces in the Falklands Comed—er, War.

Sorry, Argies, all I can say is that you’re unbelievably lucky to be living in the Age of No Shame. Mariano Puerta said that when he came back from his doping suspension, everyone in the locker room was nice and friendly. That made him feel good.

Well good for you, Mariano. You live and work and presumably cheat and lie among a bunch of tolerant, all-forgiving, prosperous folks. You apparently have no trouble living with yourself, either. Let me see, that leaves only one group—the guys you climbed over to get near the top. The ones who will never get to play a French Open final, like you recently did, because they lost to cheaters like you and are now out of the game.

You disgust me. All of you.

P.S.—To my many friends and readers in Argentina. Don’t bother to write if all you’re going to do is accuse me or the rest of the world of ganging up on Argentina because you’re “small” (which you’re not), or “Latin” (which is a cool thing to be in tennis—or it used to be, and the only people to blame for the fact that it may no longer be are Coria et al.)



this came from Peter Bodos Tennis world (http://www.peterbodostennisworld.com/)

Julio1974
08-09-2005, 11:51 PM
this came from Peter Bodos Tennis world (http://www.peterbodostennisworld.com/)


What the hell does the Falkland war have to do with this? If he nees an example of what is pathetic, I'm sure he could have found it in his own history.

El Legenda
08-10-2005, 12:00 AM
this came from Peter Bodos Tennis world (http://www.peterbodostennisworld.com/)

i think we all love our mom's and would give them the world if we could.

lau
08-10-2005, 12:01 AM
What the hell does the Falkland war have to do with this? If he nees an example of what is pathetic, I'm sure he could have found it in his own history.
:secret: No vale la pena, realmente ;) No te hagas mala sangre :hug:

sigmagirl91
08-10-2005, 12:02 AM
this came from Peter Bodos Tennis world (http://www.peterbodostennisworld.com/)

Isn't he being a little TOO harsh? Even I cringed at that, and I'm not on trial.

lau
08-10-2005, 12:10 AM
:hearts: :smooch: :inlove: :hearts: :smooch: :inlove: :hearts: :smooch: :inlove:
http://tennis.com/Media/CorePages/bodo_0.JPG
:hearts: :smooch: :inlove: :hearts: :smooch: :inlove: :hearts: :smooch: :inlove:



:angel:

El Legenda
08-10-2005, 12:16 AM
P.S.—To my many friends and readers in Argentina. Don’t bother to write if all you’re going to do is accuse me or the rest of the world of ganging up on Argentina because you’re “small” (which you’re not), or “Latin” (which is a cool thing to be in tennis—or it used to be, and the only people to blame for the fact that it may no longer be are Coria et al.)

ouch!

Julio1974
08-10-2005, 12:18 AM
Isn't he being a little TOO harsh? Even I cringed at that, and I'm not on trial.

A little too harsh... That's an understament. He is also an ignorant.

lau
08-10-2005, 12:23 AM
ouch!
What`s really "ouch" is that he refers to one of the most terrible and saddest episodes/periods in Argentine history in an article about a tennis player suspended 2 year for doping :rolleyes: That`s tactless and ignorant ;) (specially when it`s obvious he knows he has got Argentine readers) He doesn´t have an idea of what that really means for Argentines. And I`m sorry to everyone here. I didn´t want to speak about politics, but this really hurted me. :)

Gonzalo81
08-10-2005, 12:25 AM
What`s really "ouch" is that he refers to one of the most terrible and saddest episodes/periods in Argentine history in an article about a tennis player suspended 2 year for doping :rolleyes: That`s tactless and ignorant ;) (specially when it`s obvious he knows he has got Argentine readers) He doesn´t have an idea of what that really means for Argentines. And I`m sorry to everyone here. I didn´t want to speak about politics, but this really hurted me. :)


Agreed

Carito_90
08-10-2005, 12:26 AM
Dear Peter,
Since at the very beginning of the article you said, and I quote, "Feel free to send me suggestions!", here I am, doing so.

I shall suggest you to shove your "Argentineans are shit and dopers" comment up where the sun never shines and keep it there because, honestly, this kind of subjectivity is absolutely unbareable, especially coming from a journalist.

And just in case you did not get my drift, you make me want to vomit, or simply, you are as disgusting as Bush (Hey, if you can randomly write about the Falkland Islands on a tennis article, why not compare you to Bush? It's only fair)

Thank you for taking your time to read this, and if you didn't, I don't really care because I had fun simply writing this.

No love,

Me.

DanEd
08-10-2005, 12:29 AM
I am going to give this article to willy cañas, puerta, coria and chela.

Julio1974
08-10-2005, 12:31 AM
Coria should sue this bastard.

michelleg
08-10-2005, 12:32 AM
Another arse clown jumping on the bandwagon. Between his self righteous ramblings and the inane posts in this thread, it is now overly apparent that there are plenty of people in this world who are vying to prove their Fox News Journalistic Skills.

Yawn.

Julio1974
08-10-2005, 12:37 AM
Another arse clown jumping on the bandwagon. Between his self righteous ramblings and the inane posts in this thread, it is now overly apparent that there are plenty of people in this world who are vying to prove their Fox News Journalistic Skills.

Yawn.

:haha:

mitalidas
08-10-2005, 12:42 AM
I think its alright for him to point fingers and show disgust at the ones who have been actually found guilty of doping. But to go from there to making sweeping generalizations of all Argentine and "cool" Latin players is a long --and wrong-- stretch because there have been several non-Argentines in the pool of those caught doping

uNIVERSE mAN
08-10-2005, 12:48 AM
Good riddance Kaanyaas.

NYCtennisfan
08-10-2005, 04:00 AM
As Homer Simpson so eloquently stated once, "This is everyone's fault but mine."

As I read this thread, I am wondering about all the posters who are talking about other players hiding their doping better, different lobbies, scapegoats, etc. that maybe, just maybe that perhaps the top players test cleanly because they ARE clean? I know, that's really naive and all and the real culprits here are all the powerful countries with strong lobbies and better masking techniques and more money making ability and...........

alfonsojose
08-10-2005, 04:43 AM
Acapulco's tournament director denies Cañas story
http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=352579 :eek:

Action Jackson
08-10-2005, 06:08 AM
A scapegoat is someome who takes the blame for other people and that's not the case here. While I think 2 years is harsh compared to other bans given out in the past, I don't think if he had been British, American or Australian it would not have been made public or he would have got off. I don't think there is a conspiracy to make scapegoats out of Argentinians either. Surely if you don't take illegal substances in the first place, then you don't give the ATP any reason to make you a scapegoat. After reading through his defence I'm sympathising with him a lot less and becoming less convinced that the big bad ATP are trying to punish him extra hard because he is from Argentina.

Just for you I'll make it clear. I have not said that he is innocent or neither have I said he is guilty. If you seriously think that there is no heirachy in the ATP, then you're kidding, by nature organisations have a heirachal structure and the individuals and the nations that have the most influence will do everything to get their members off, if there are in trouble. It looks good for the stats that they have caught a top player, now they can live off that, without addressing the overall problem.

I would fail a drug test now, because I have taken a cold tablet for a flu, which has a diuretic in it. The ATP as Socket has said has made so many mistakes previously when it comes to this, were the samples stored at the right temperature, why did it take so long for this result to come out, they could have done this a lot earlier than they did.

Mimi
08-10-2005, 07:42 AM
poor him, 2 years are too long :sad:

sigmagirl91
08-10-2005, 09:15 AM
Dear Peter,
Since at the very beginning of the article you said, and I quote, "Feel free to send me suggestions!", here I am, doing so.

I shall suggest you to shove your "Argentineans are shit and dopers" comment up where the sun never shines and keep it there because, honestly, this kind of subjectivity is absolutely unbareable, especially coming from a journalist.

And just in case you did not get my drift, you make me want to vomit, or simply, you are as disgusting as Bush (Hey, if you can randomly write about the Falkland Islands on a tennis article, why not compare you to Bush? It's only fair)

Thank you for taking your time to read this, and if you didn't, I don't really care because I had fun simply writing this.

No love,

Me.

:D

Nimomunz
08-10-2005, 01:08 PM
i'm not defending him but this is not a journalistic piece its from a blog thus he is allowed his BLATANT subjectivism!!

Action Jackson
08-10-2005, 01:10 PM
i dont think its stereotyping f you include everyone! ;)

Glad to see you got it.

lau
08-10-2005, 01:29 PM
i'm not defending him but this is not a journalistic piece its from a blog thus he is allowed his BLATANT subjectivism!!
It shouldn´t if it`s THIS offensive ;)
Anyway, I won`t explain how offensive it really was for a lot of people here. And it has nothing to do with tennis, in fact, it`s offensive how he randomnly writtes about some things in a tennis article.... :rolleyes: , as Carito made it pretty clear :lol:
And he still is a journalist, even if this is not a journalistic piece... It doesn´t change the fact the he is being ignorant... :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
08-10-2005, 01:34 PM
I was a fan, so obviously this is somewhat dissapointing in that regard. But... those are the ropes. If you want a slap on the wrist for doping, play baseball.

Raquel
08-10-2005, 05:51 PM
If you seriously think that there is no heirachy in the ATP, then you're kidding, by nature organisations have a heirachal structure and the individuals and the nations that have the most influence will do everything to get their members off, if there are in trouble. It looks good for the stats that they have caught a top player, now they can live off that, without addressing the overall problem.

OK lets say that this is the case. By February 2005 when Canas failed his test Coria, Chela and Puerta had all served drugs bans and then people like Voltchkov and van Lottum have publicly accused the Argentinians of taking drugs or illegal supplements (all gossip and hearsay, but they make it public anyway), so already there's a bit of a connection between Argentinian players and drugs with the accusations and past bans. After all that, maybe the ATP start being extra vigilant with the Argentinians than they would with countries with players who are more high profile or countries with the bigger history in the game. With the past bans, accusations, the feeling of Argentinian players being unfairly punished because they're lower down the heirachy and extra suspicion from the ATP, surely the Argentinian players would then know this. Surely then you would be 100% extra careful. They have a reputation for suspecting/banning Argentinians so don't, under any circumstances, give them any reason whatsoever to take it out on you. Keep every prescription. Keep every box of tablets you take something from. Keep every doctor's/ATP staff signature that signed off that it was OK for you to take whatever they give you. Do everything 100% on the level. Even if they are conspiring to get a high profile player (and even better if an Argentinian), they can't take it out on you if you have evidence of your innocence even if they do suddenly appear with a failed test.

Guillermo's defence though, had holes you could drive a bus through. This is from smucav's post earlier in the thread -
His whole defense seems revolve around receiving a phantom prescription (containing the banned substance) from the tournament doctor.

According to the testimony of the doctor & others:

1) The doctor never examined Canas at the tournament (& has detailed records of who he did examine)

2) He didn't write any prescriptions for Canas.

3) The doctor did examine other players with the same symptoms Canas says he was suffering from & gave them OTC remedies that didn't require prescriptions.

4) There was no need for the tournament doctor (or any doctor) to prescribe that particular drug for the symptoms Canas says he was suffering from as it would have made the condition worse.

5) The person who allegedly picked up the prescription & delivered it to Canas hasn't been produced or identified.

6) Canas did not retain the carton, container, or the prescription itself even though he testified that he is overly vigilant about such things.

7) None of Canas's team who were at the tournament with him have any records about his illness or the prescription.

8) Canas did not declare that he had taken the prescription (or any other substances) when he gave his sample [This seems to be the most damning issue; if he had declared a prescription at the time, there would be a trail of evidence. Since he didn't, it appears to be a fabrication after the fact, even without the detailed records of the doctor.]

One of these things alone could simply have been an oversight (on Canas's part or the doctor's part), but all of them together seem quite suspicious. Even if you are a conspiracy theorist, there are too many factors to buy that as an explanation.

With all that against you, even with an ATP hypothetically gunning for an Argentinian to ban, you're handing them a case against you on a plate. If Canas is right and everything he says is right, then the doctor is a liar. In that case then provide a prescription to prove he's lying. Or find other players he gave that same medication to since the doctor's claiming the medication he gave to other players requires no prescription and therefore can be legally taken. Or at the very least, make sure your team back up your story.

With all this going against him though he had no chance especially with, as you say, an ATP who are not going to be lenient on Argentinians anyway. If Canas is innocent, he must have known he'd have to be extra careful about everything, but he wasn't from what I can see. Unless that doctor is lying after all.

*Ljubica*
08-10-2005, 06:07 PM
Another arse clown jumping on the bandwagon. Between his self righteous ramblings and the inane posts in this thread, it is now overly apparent that there are plenty of people in this world who are vying to prove their Fox News Journalistic Skills.

Yawn.

I haven't posted in this thread up until now because the whole thing saddens and sickens me too much - especially some of the comments here - but just wanted to say how much I agree with Michelle and also GWH and the others here supporting Willy.

Raquel
08-10-2005, 06:08 PM
I read a great book Peter Bodo wrote once. I thought he was a good writer but that article that was posted was just awful. Dragging Argentina's soldiers from the Falklands War into this and then taking a dig at them, is pathetic. And saying the players have taken more illegal substances than Courtney Love is, at best, unfunny; at worst, slanderous.

Gonzalo81
08-10-2005, 06:34 PM
Im watching right now Cañas talking on tv live...

He looks almost crying trough the whole interview...
First of all he thanked everyone that is supporting him, the fans, all the argie players....and he also mentioned nadal, Moya, and a couple more players from the circuit....
He explained a bit about his strategy in the appeal....and he also said that the atp wasn´t interested in the mexican doctor beeing at the trial in NY....
He said that Acapulco´s doctor said "that if the atp would´ve said that it was an important case, he would´ve made an effort to get the visa and go to the trial" That sounds weird for me, anyone else?

He said that his career is not over....he has a lot of faith...

That´s all that I remember....If anyone else saw it try to complete this...

alfonsojose
08-10-2005, 06:35 PM
Peter Trollo :mad: :ras: That's too much.

Denaon
08-10-2005, 06:39 PM
Im watching right now Cañas talking on tv live...

He looks almost crying trough the whole interview...
First of all he thanked everyone that is supporting him, the fans, all the argie players....and he also mentioned nadal, Moya, and a couple more players from the circuit....
He explained a bit about his strategy in the appeal....and he also said that the atp wasn´t interested in the mexican doctor beeing at the trial in NY....
He said that Acapulco´s doctor said "that if the atp would´ve said that it was an important case, he would´ve made an effort to get the visa and go to the trial" That sounds weird for me, anyone else?

He said that his career is not over....he has a lot of faith...

That´s all that I remember....If anyone else saw it try to complete this...
:awww:
Thanks Gonzalo for posting this :worship:.....I think Jazzy was looking at it too...she might add something....

alfonsojose
08-10-2005, 07:00 PM
pbodo@tennismagazine.com

Even if Guillermo Cañas is guilty, you can't attack a whole country in such a disgusting way. Your Falklands Islands reference should come from a stupid teenager highschool journalist, not from a guy who suposedly has been writing during tons of years. Mixing politics with sports .. Cañas maybe is on drugs, but Viagra is messing up your head, mr. Bodo

alfonsojose
08-10-2005, 07:02 PM
And i'm going to write to tennis magazine. Such a pile of shit can't be published as just an opinion :rolleyes:

Socket
08-10-2005, 07:03 PM
I'm very confused by the report of what Canas is saying in his interview. His lawyer will have the right to subpoena anybody who might be helpful to Canas's case. It's not the ATP's decision whether the doctor testifies or not. And he'll be able to get an expedited visa if he's served with a subpoena. Maybe it's Canas who doesn't want the doctor there. Hmmmm.

Socket
08-10-2005, 07:05 PM
Sounds like Bodo has accomplished his goal -- getting you guys to read his blog. The tennis.com site might be getting more hits today than ever before.