Andy's Autumn schedule [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Andy's Autumn schedule

chalkdust
07-31-2005, 09:41 AM
I've been thinking about Andy's Autumn schedule and how he should go about accumulating points after the US Open. He will surely need a break after his long summer in the Americas. The US Open finishes on September 11. Having looked at the ATP calendar on their website, the following tournaments seem likely to be of greatest interest to Andy. I have left out Metz, Vienna, Moscow, Basel, Lyon and St. Petersburg because I don't think Andy could even make the qualifying tournaments at these events.

Szczecin, Poland Challenger Outdoor Clay 125+H 19/09/05
Grenoble, France Challenger Indoor Hard 75+H 26/09/05
Japan ATP 48 Outdoor Hard 03/10/05
Mons, Belgium Challenger Indoor Carpet 125+H 03/10/05
Stockholm ATP Indoor Hard 10/10/05
Madrid Mandatory48 Indoor Hard 17/10/05
Kolding, Denmark Challenger Indoor Carpet 50+H 17/10/05
Paris Mandatory48 Indoor Carpet 31/10/05
Aachen, Germany Challenger Indoor Carpet 50+H 31/10/05

(Sorry about formatting.)

[Edit: as pointed out below, the Davis Cup tie between Britain and Switzerland will be played from September 23-25 in Geneva, which rules out Szezecin and makes the Japan Open look less appealing.]

Meanwhile, his points situation is that he will be on 277 after Granby in about 150th place in the rankings. He has about thirty points that he will lose in August that he won in Futures last year, and then nothing much to lose until December, when he will lose another 24 points from Futures events. (I'm not quite sure whether the December tournaments will roll off his ranking before the Australian Open entry is drawn up but I think so.)

Now, suppose Andy's goal is to be ranked about 100-105 by the time that direct entries are made for the Australian Open, in order to guarantee his place in the draw. Looking at the current ATP Entry rankings, he would need 408 points to be ranked 100th. At year-end 2004, he would have needed 434 points. He doesn't have to be ranked quite as high as 100 to get into the Slams (2004 average cut-off was 106) so let's set a goal of 420 points.

Andy's worst six tournaments that will still count towards his ranking at year-end, unless he does better in any tournaments between now and year-end, are 2,4,4,5,5,7. So, by mid-December (entry cut-off was Aussie Open), Andy needs to win 197 points (420-277-54) from the rest of this year's tournaments, plus any of the points from his six worst events that will be pushed out by any better results.

Meanwhile, we know Andy is playing the Vancouver Challenger next week. After that, he may get into the qualies for the Montreal Masters Series (needs ten withdrawals) and the situation is similar for the Cincinnati Masters the week after that. He is also on the Alt list at New Haven (Pilot Pen). On the whole, it seems quite possible he won't play any tournaments except Vancouver before late September unless he does really well and qualifies for the Open or one of the Masters series (I doubt he'll get any wild cards into main draws).

With his ranking where it is at the moment, it seems unlikely he will get into even the qualifying tournaments for either the Paris or Madrid Masters Series in October. The field sizes are only 48 plus 24 in qualifying. So let's assume he will play Kolding and Aachen in those weeks. That basically leaves him with this decision: should he enter the Japan Open, where, looking at last year's entries, he would have a good chance of getting straight into the main draw? Tournaments with a field of 48 are quite useful because you are guaranteed to avoid the top 16 seeds in the first round. On top of that, the strength of the field last year was not that great, presumably because of the travel and the event's position in the calendar, half way between the US Open and the Madrid Masters. On the other hand, if he went there, he would have to skip Grenoble and Mons and wouldalso rule himself out of the Stockholm qualies. I suppose he could still play Szczecin but would he really feel like playing an isolated clay-court tournament at that stage of the season?

I think maybe he would be best to play Grenoble, Mons, Stockholm qualifying, Kolding and Aachen and, depending on how this would affect his game, he should consider Szczecin.

What do others think about this?

ClaycourtaZzZz.
07-31-2005, 10:40 AM
thx,

I think he shouldn't play that much challengers cause if he wins a 100k he'll lose 70 next year, he wont play challengers anymore as soon as he's ranked higher and get entries in bigger events.

chalkdust
07-31-2005, 11:14 AM
His problem is that he won't gain entry to many ATP events unless he gets his ranking up. The wild cards he has been getting could dry up pretty fast too unless he performs well enough that he no longer really needs them. At the moment, he has almost no points to defend in September, October or November so he may as well try to fill that part of the year with some decent ranking points.

He really needs a good performance next week to give himself better chances of qualifying for the more important events in October and next January. Either that or some luck and an amazing performance at one of the August tournaments. Maybe he'll get a wild card into the Montreal qualies, which would help.

AndyMurray
07-31-2005, 11:16 AM
So you're hoping he doesn't make the final in Vancouver then?! ;)

ClaycourtaZzZz.
07-31-2005, 11:32 AM
No, he should win Vancouver and get a WC into the main Draw :bounce: ;)

kundalini
07-31-2005, 04:33 PM
I would imagine he might play a schedule along the lines of:

Szczecin, Poland Challenger Outdoor Clay 125+H 19/09/05
Grenoble, France Challenger Indoor Hard 75+H 26/09/05
Mons, Belgium Challenger Indoor Carpet 125+H 03/10/05
Stockholm ATP Indoor Hard 10/10/05
Kolding, Denmark Challenger Indoor Carpet 50+H 17/10/05
Aachen, Germany Challenger Indoor Carpet 50+H 31/10/05

There is also the Davis Cup match. Not quite sure how this fits into the schedule as they are played Fri, Sat, Sun.

Right now, I think it may be very difficult to reach the top 100 by the end of the year. His recent results have been disappointing; losses to an unfit and woefully out of form Mardy Fish, and tour journeyman Carraz don't quite fit with the picture of Andy as an emerging talent.

At this rate it seems unlikely he will be able to make it through qualifying for the US Open. Though perhaps his form will pick up in time. Hope he does better in Vancouver this week.

Can't see him getting into the qualifying for the Masters, he is too far down and you can't make much of a case for him getting a wildcard as he wasted the ones he got into Rhode Island and Indianappolis.

kundalini
07-31-2005, 04:42 PM
His problem is that he won't gain entry to many ATP events unless he gets his ranking up. The wild cards he has been getting could dry up pretty fast too unless he performs well enough that he no longer really needs them. At the moment, he has almost no points to defend in September, October or November so he may as well try to fill that part of the year with some decent ranking points.

He really needs a good performance next week to give himself better chances of qualifying for the more important events in October and next January. Either that or some luck and an amazing performance at one of the August tournaments. Maybe he'll get a wild card into the Montreal qualies, which would help.

I agree.

To do well next year he needs decent results now in order to gain direct qualification into the Aus Open and other main tour events.

He then needs good performances to get into the Masters tournaments early in the year in Indian Wells and Miami.

And more good results to get into the 64 player draws for the clay court Masters events.

A few more poor results and a large chunk of next season may have to be spent on the Challenger circuit trying to get the points needed to break into the top 100.

If only he had beaten Mardy Fish (or indeed Nalbandian at Wimbledon), he would have had Bastl in the next round, and a great chance to get 50 points or more.

He needs 200 points (approx). At the current rate he isn't going to get them. But winning Vancouver would give him a decent chance.

kundalini
07-31-2005, 04:47 PM
I've been thinking about Andy's Autumn schedule and how he should go about accumulating points after the US Open. He will surely need a break after his long summer in the Americas. The US Open finishes on September 11. .

That basically leaves him with this decision: should he enter the Japan Open, where, looking at last year's entries, he would have a good chance of getting straight into the main draw? Tournaments with a field of 48 are quite useful because you are guaranteed to avoid the top 16 seeds in the first round. On top of that, the strength of the field last year was not that great, presumably because of the travel and the event's position in the calendar, half way between the US Open and the Madrid Masters. On the other hand, if he went there, he would have to skip Grenoble and Mons and wouldalso rule himself out of the Stockholm qualies. I suppose he could still play Szczecin but would he really feel like playing an isolated clay-court tournament at that stage of the season?

I think maybe he would be best to play Grenoble, Mons, Stockholm qualifying, Kolding and Aachen and, depending on how this would affect his game, he should consider Szczecin.

What do others think about this?

Going to Japan would be a real gamble. He could easily lose in the 1st round and blow the whole of his autumn schedule.

Better off to stay in europe and try to win some matches indoors.

chalkdust
07-31-2005, 09:45 PM
Kundalini, it sounds like we agree on most of this. Do you think he'll play Szezecin? I'm not too sure how well he could do in a clay-courter in between the hard court and indoor seasons but he does claim it is his favourite surface and there are good points available there.

kundalini
07-31-2005, 10:04 PM
Kundalini, it sounds like we agree on most of this. Do you think he'll play Szezecin? I'm not too sure how well he could do in a clay-courter in between the hard court and indoor seasons but he does claim it is his favourite surface and there are good points available there.

Unless something amazing happens at either one of the Masters tournaments or the US Open, he is going to be really struggling for points.

The davis cup match is on clay (I think) - so that would link in. In other circumstances it is not something you would normally recommend but he needs 200 points.

They may decide that top 100 is just not possible for the end of this season. (increasingly it looks that way)

Otherwise I think he'll play any tournament that is available and hope that he can get a lucky draw, win a few matches and may be fight his way into the final.

From what I've seen and heard, indoor hard courts don't particularly suit his game, so the chances are that he'll struggle to pick up the points he needs from those events alone.

Again, it all depends how team Murray sees the near future

- is he going to try to play Australian Open?
- is he looking to play on the main tour next year?
- does he expect to play european clay court season?

Because the way the entry system works, if he wants to compete in these tournaments next year, he needs the points by the end of this year. Qualifying is a nightmare. (especially with his fitness)

chalkdust
08-01-2005, 08:42 AM
The davis cup match is on clay (I think) - so that would link in.Hmm, I had forgotten about the Davis Cup. It is scheduled for 23-25 September in Geneva. So that rules out Szezecin but, on the other hand, makes it pretty easy to go to Grenoble for the 26th. All in all, his schedule seems to be decided for him this Autumn.

They may decide that top 100 is just not possible for the end of this season. (increasingly it looks that way)
[Snip]
Again, it all depends how team Murray sees the near future

- is he going to try to play Australian Open?
- is he looking to play on the main tour next year?
- does he expect to play european clay court season?

Because the way the entry system works, if he wants to compete in these tournaments next year, he needs the points by the end of this year. Qualifying is a nightmare. (especially with his fitness)I don't really look at it like that. He must surely see only one near future: do whatever it takes to improve his ranking until the end of this season; then work on his fitness in November and December; and then carry on with the ranking focus until he gets into the top 50, however many months or years that takes.

How best to improve one's ranking? I think that Challengers are the best way for someone at Murray's stage of development. If one looks at the strength of the field in any Challenger and at the points available and then compares that with almost all ATP events (and absolutely all Masters and Slams), one quickly realises that it is a blessing to miss out on the bigger events. The way the system is set up, once a player starts to qualify for Masters and Slams, he is actually likely to find that his ranking starts to fall because these events are compulsorily included in his ranking and yet a first-round loss is slightly worse than a second-round loss in a Challenger and even a second-round loss is only about as good as reaching a semi-final in a Challenger. Meanwhile, because of the compulsory inclusion in the ranking, you are forcing out some potentially better results in Challengers. Of course, you do get some additional points if you qualify for the bigger events but that process can really interfere with your Challenger performance because of the travel involved.

If you look at the rankings in the 110-150 range, they are full of Europeans and Latin American guys who hardly ever leave home and play thirty clay-court challengers per year and not a single Masters or Slam. These people know what they are doing and Andy has to do this dance for a time while he works on his fitness and his play and picks up some experience. Hopefully, by the time he starts to qualify for Masters and Slams as of right, Andy will be playing well enough to take advantage of that and move upwards rather than slipping back down.

So, take your time Andy, avoid injury, get fitter and stronger, develop your game and experience, get your schedule right, and then the rest will look after itself.

kundalini
08-01-2005, 09:27 AM
Hmm, I had forgotten about the Davis Cup. It is scheduled for 23-25 September in Geneva. So that rules out Szezecin but, on the other hand, makes it pretty easy to go to Grenoble for the 26th. All in all, his schedule seems to be decided for him this Autumn.

I don't really look at it like that. He must surely see only one near future: do whatever it takes to improve his ranking until the end of this season; then work on his fitness in November and December; and then carry on with the ranking focus until he gets into the top 50, however many months or years that takes.

How best to improve one's ranking? I think that Challengers are the best way for someone at Murray's stage of development. If one looks at the strength of the field in any Challenger and at the points available and then compares that with almost all ATP events (and absolutely all Masters and Slams), one quickly realises that it is a blessing to miss out on the bigger events. The way the system is set up, once a player starts to qualify for Masters and Slams, he is actually likely to find that his ranking starts to fall because these events are compulsorily included in his ranking and yet a first-round loss is slightly worse than a second-round loss in a Challenger and even a second-round loss is only about as good as reaching a semi-final in a Challenger. Meanwhile, because of the compulsory inclusion in the ranking, you are forcing out some potentially better results in Challengers. Of course, you do get some additional points if you qualify for the bigger events but that process can really interfere with your Challenger performance because of the travel involved.

If you look at the rankings in the 110-150 range, they are full of Europeans and Latin American guys who hardly ever leave home and play thirty clay-court challengers per year and not a single Masters or Slam. These people know what they are doing and Andy has to do this dance for a time while he works on his fitness and his play and picks up some experience. Hopefully, by the time he starts to qualify for Masters and Slams as of right, Andy will be playing well enough to take advantage of that and move upwards rather than slipping back down.

So, take your time Andy, avoid injury, get fitter and stronger, develop your game and experience, get your schedule right, and then the rest will look after itself.

Not sure I agree.

I would say Andy should be aiming for top 20 by the end of next season. It may be slightly unrealistic but he has got the tennis to play at that level.

To accomplish this he needs 6 or 7 great tournaments out of 21. A semi of a masters tournament, Grand Slam QF and a few other good results in lesser tournaments.

Right now his fitness is not sufficient, nor is his serve reliable enough. Otherwise he has practically all he needs to be top 30 - top 20.

It is way too easy to get stuck on the challenger circuit or on the lower ranks of the ATP tour.

This season Andy has shown himself that he has enough to play against ATP tour players. Next season he should focus on doing well in tournaments.

If he doesn't aim high, he will face the sort of problems that Alex Bogdanovic and Arvind Palmer are struggling with. Both have ability way beyond their high-ranking positions yet neither shows any sign of breaking into the top 100 in the next year or so.

If you do the basics right, the chances appear - Henman at the French last year for example.

kundalini
08-01-2005, 09:46 AM
If his aim is to get to 75 in the rankings, then challengers is the route, but if you want to get into the top 30, challengers just don't award enough points.

An approach that suits players of modest ability (relative) is less appropriate for those with the talent to excel.

Of course, if he finds himself losing 1st or 2nd round matches tournament after tournament, he can always drop down to the challenger circuit.

To do well you need to set high standards. We can all name numerous examples of players with extraordinary talent who have achieved little.

If you get into the top 80 or so you are already making very good money, getting lots of media attention (especially in the UK) and all the bonuses that come the way of famous people.

If Andy wants to be top 10 - and from the sounds of things he does - then at some point he has to just do it. To put in the effort required, to grind out results, to fight his way into the later stages of tournaments.

Right now people seem to think it is ok to lose to Dupuis (because the grass was wet and the bounce was erratic), to Nalbandian (because he was inexperienced and lacking fitness), to Fish (because Fish was once ranked 19 in the world), to Carraz (no idea why)

But these were awful results (with the exception of Nalbandian - which was awful execution of a match he could have won)

If this carries on much longer Andy is going to struggle. He needs to learn fast.

chalkdust
08-01-2005, 10:58 AM
OK, I do agree with all of this, Kundalini. In particular, he has lost some matches recently that he ought to have won. Unfortunately, I have not seen him play since Wimbledon so I can't really tell what has happened to him in these matches and the press coverage is minimal, with no trustworthy analysis that I have seen.

Carraz was definitely very disappointing. It can't have been a fitness issue as Andy can surely manage two hard-court sets at 24 Celsius. I've never seen Carraz but his highest ranking has been around 120. All you can say is that he is very experienced and that hard courts are his favourite surface.

Andy was also very lucky in Aptos with the way all the best players lost before he was due to meet them.

Anyway, I agree he should aim high, it's just that top-100 by year-end is already looking very tough as you acknowledge. And even if he got there, it would still be hard for him to qualify for the best European clay-court events, which have smallish fields. Because of this, I'm just saying that he will be forced to play Challengers whether he likes it or not so he needs to take best advantage of that. I've tried to look at the positive side in terms of the potential for ranking points from such tournaments.

On the other hand, there is also the facet that you have focused on. Andy must perform to his potential and use the off-season to get fit if he is going to climb out of the mud of the Challenger circuit.

Edit: Oh and I agree that Indian Wells and Miami are really important - he must get into these tournaments and win a few matches. And I agree with your latest edit! Andy should definitely not grow too accustomed to the Challenger circuit.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
08-01-2005, 11:10 AM
I think the only chance of playing an Europe clay court MS is Monte Carlo. About 4 americans will pull out LH, and lots more.

kundalini
08-01-2005, 01:01 PM
At the moment things rather look a mess.

As you rightly point out, the european clay court season is looking a very tough ask given the 32 player draw of many of the minor events and even the 64 player draws of the masters appear unlikely at this stage.

He is going to have to get his act together if he wants to play main tour events in the 1st half of next season. An inspired display at the US Open would help - but I fear he may not even make it through qualifying.

Let's hope he wins Vancouver, or at least reaches the final.

To answer your original question - I think they should continue with the target of top 100 and simply focus on that for the rest of this year. This would mean playing tournaments that give him a decent chance of the 200 points he needs.

The guy who won the 2nd set against Nalbandian looked a pretty good player to me - no idea where he has got to. Perhaps he will reappear at some point to rescue the situation (sounds dangerously like the 2 Gorans!)

stuey87
08-02-2005, 09:50 PM
You've covered just about every aspect of this, brilliantly exhaustive stuff guys :)
One point you raised really hit the nail on the head for me:

"Right now people seem to think it is ok to lose to Dupuis (because the grass was wet and the bounce was erratic), to Nalbandian (because he was inexperienced and lacking fitness), to Fish (because Fish was once ranked 19 in the world), to Carraz (no idea why)

But these were awful results (with the exception of Nalbandian - which was awful execution of a match he could have won)

If this carries on much longer Andy is going to struggle. He needs to learn fast."

I agree wholeheartedly. During Wimbledon he himself worked out that he needed to reach the quarterfinals to get top 100. He definitely should've beaten Nalbandian which would've put him far far closer than the 215 ish he was at having lost that match. Had he beaten Nalbandian and given Gasquet a walkover it'd still have meant that if he were to then win Aptos he'd be on the verge of the top 100.
I was frustrated to see him lose to Fish losing two sets from a break up, when as you say he would then hopefully have beaten Bastl again and picked up some 40 odd more points for the event than he did.
So the Nalbandian and Fish matches alone could've left him on the edge of the top 100 and the quandary of whether or not he should be pushing himself too hard now to try and get into the Aussie Open would never have come about.

Duncan
08-03-2005, 12:51 AM
woah woah woah woah talk about ringing alarm bells already, give the kid a chance he is still only 18 remember, Nadal was still struggling with things at this age(until he went to the gym and bulked himself up)

He will reach the top 100 before the end of the season, if he doesn't make the US Open its not the end of the world he can defend his junior title and give him more confidence and then he can start on his mission to be playing at the Aussie Open in January


Be more patient people, he is scottish afterall :P

ClaycourtaZzZz.
08-03-2005, 08:20 AM
lol yes if he loses otherwise they call him british :smash:

Murray, the new british:smash: star after beating Stepanek

Murray, the scot:smash: lost to David Nalbandian

Robxon
08-03-2005, 10:06 AM
I don't quite understand why you are so dismissive of Andy's chances at the US open. He is likely to (will) be seeded and therefore will players who are ranked lower than he is. He has not yet lost to anybody more lowly ranked than him since his run started at Queens.

Let's enjoy a liitle of his success before we throw him to the wolves and expect him to fail at every turn.

chalkdust
08-03-2005, 11:23 AM
He has not yet lost to anybody more lowly ranked than him since his run started at Queens.That's true, although Carraz became more lowly ranked after Granby, in spite of beating Andy!

I have read that Montreal is Carraz's "second home" so maybe he had the fans on his side, as well as experience and his favourite surface.

I don't think anyone has been righting Andy off here. I'm just trying to see how he can best make use of the available tournaments to improve his ranking. And Kundalini sounds to me more like an anxious fan than anything else.

villaturk
08-04-2005, 07:42 PM
Give the kid a break lads,christ all we seem to do is slag our sportmen off.The lad was struggling on tha satellite cuircuit in the summer and then after getting to the French Junior semis,he was so close to putting Tommy Jo out of Quenns and he got to the semis.I honestly believe that he would of won that point at 15 30 had he stayed on his feet and so would of had 2 match points.
He detroyed Bastl At Wimb and then out played Stepanek who had beaten Rusedski a week earliar.Yes we know he should of beaten Nalbandian but he was shattered.
We all know what happened at Rhode Island and then the 2 challengers at aptos and granby but give the kid a break,his ranking has climbed monster loads in months and will continue rising.
All he needs is work in gym to improve his fitness and strengh,the tennis talent is there but just as importantly is the desire.Its great to see a normal kid in tennis with his attitude.
Some of these posts are rubbish,saying that he is getting beat by poor opponents,etc.
i remember jeremy bates beating a 17 year old andre agassi in the states,say no more!!

shyscots25
08-05-2005, 11:14 PM
Its interesting to read all the speculation about Andy's future tournament calendar for this year and early next. To me for Andy to make significant progress this year (well even more than the big leaps he has made already), and reach the vaunted heights of the top 100, it really comes down to the US Open. Not only for the huge ranking points up for grabs by a good run, 3rd or 4th round would be great, but also the attention it gives him again. Take a player like Monfils his ranking has improved so much and he has got into the top 100 by getting almost mandatory wildcards into every european ATP event this year. He is roughly the same age as Andy (although has been on the full tour a year longer). In fact he hasn't done spectacularly well, but has still went along picking up valuable points. He is recognised as someone with ability and therefore he gets the chance. Andy can earn that wildcard status too, he has had a few already. He needs to earn the chance for more and then justify them.

Andy needs to keep winning the challengers for the moment. I have a feeling he may get a chance in the main draw of one of the Master's coming up (whether by wildcard or qualifying) and then it will be up to him. The dream scenario would be a win in Vancouver this week and then one good run in either Montreal or Cincinatti. A few more rounds in these comps and doing well at the US Open and we could have an all new discussion.

Bottom line is clearly Andy is ambitious. He wants to go to the top as quickly as possile, i think he clearly believes that is where he belongs, that he is "too good" for where he is at the moment and these low level challengers. It is up to him to get the results. I think the aim has to be the ATP tournaments. As many as possible. Show he belongs there and prove that he can consistently handle that calibre of player. The ranking system is something of a labrynth, and there is no certain way through, except by winning. By winning as many challengers as he can but seizing every opportunity he gets on the main tour. Whether the big breakthrough comes this year or next year i don't think we should get too worked up about. Sure we would all like it to be sooner but it will happen, i have total faith in that.

For what its worth i think playing the solitary clay tournament would be absolutely pointless. I think his aim should be the less profile ATP tournaments where he might realistically get in. Of course a good US open and Andy will find it easier to make progress in the Autumn.

kundalini
08-06-2005, 08:30 AM
Slightly weird events at the moment.

Andy had a place in the Montreal qualifying, as several players had withdrawn. Then he didn't appear in the qualifying draw so I assume he declined the place, most probably because he was still playing in Vancouver (last match on court), a match against Baccanello that he contrived to lose.

He has a wildcard into qualifying in Cincinnati but there are suggestions that he is playing in Binghampton this coming week, so the same fiasco may occur next friday.

Personally I suspect Andy is bored of playing Challengers - his results just lately have been awful - hard to believe given the form he showed at Queens and Wimbledon.

In response to some of the earlier comments - I happen to think that Andy is a very good tennis player (probably around 40 in the world but for his lack of fitness)

And if your starting point is that Andy is equivalent to top 40 then you would be surprised to find him losing to players outside the top 100 or those lacking form and fitness.

Of course if you assume that Andy is in fact the 300th best player in the world then his recent results have been fantastic. And to lose to Fish, Carraz, Dupuis and Baccanello is hardly surprising.

(I happen to think that Richard Bloomfield has done great recently - and yet he has been losing matches - the difference is that he is playing above his natural level)

Looking at the scores of his matches it would appear that he either wins in straight sets or he loses (the Mamiit match doesn't fit this pattern but it was played over 2 days)

I am amazed that fitness is not top of his list of priorities.

He is playing too many tournaments, he is playing tournaments that don't excite him (anyone watch Wimbledon - he sure was motivated then), against modest opponents, he doesn't appear to be getting any fitter, and he hasn't picked up that many ranking points.

It would be nice to think that Andy has a 10 career ahead of him - plenty of time to get fit, develop his game, learn from his mistakes. But who knows what will happen? A bad injury could wreck his career at any time.

pesto
08-06-2005, 10:34 AM
Yeah, they're bigging him up on the Binghamton website.

I thought it was reasonable that he played Vancouver, as, at the start of the week, it was by no means certain that he would have got into the Montreal qualies. But now I think it would be much more sensible to take a few days' break to prepare for the Cincy qualies.

He's been playing every week for ages. It's a bit mad to miss a Masters Series event for the sake of a low-level Challenger nobody's ever heard of.

kundalini
08-06-2005, 11:10 AM
Agree

He needs a rest.

Then he needs some matches that excite him.

I would imagine right now he's pissed off that he's been losing to guys that don't have half his talent, he's knackered from all the travelling, and he's starting to think he has been away from home (or his base in Barcelona) too long.

Mark Petchey should have seen this coming. That's his job after all.

(I really hope he is not stuck on the Challenger circuit next year - he seems to need the buzz of the big tournament)

Akyra
08-06-2005, 12:35 PM
Im sure his coach knows what he is doing with him...

So probably he will have a week rest before the US Open starts and yes he will play the Binghamton tournament.. You cant play only tournaments likes Wimbledon and the big ones. every one would like that and think they dont belong in he lower tournaments..
but first prove it also there that u dont belong there but in the higher tournaments....

He knows where he is going and he knows what he want... So doubt wont be in his head for sure... Why should other people doub him then??!!

kundalini
08-06-2005, 11:22 PM
Well he could have played Montreal qualifying

And he could have got himself rested and prepared for Cincinnati qualifying.

I am tempted to say that I expect him to lose in the QF in Binghampton. (convenient so he can then go to Cincinnati)

kundalini
08-07-2005, 12:39 AM
Given that Andy is really struggling for sufficient points to give him a chance to enter ATP tour events in the early part of next year, I suspect we may see him playing in November.

There are Challengers in:

Bratislava (100 +H)
Dnepropetrovsk (125 +H)
Luxembourg (150 +H)

All offering a lot of points to those that do well.

villaturk
08-07-2005, 01:22 PM
just one question,any body know the last time Muzza won a match in 3 sets(not including the slams or games carried over).i too think he is playing too much but lets remember,they have got a better life then us so playing most of the time shoulnt be a problem.Def agree with a few others that he needs big games so he has gotta get out of the challenger leagues as soon as poss.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
08-07-2005, 07:00 PM
Hopefully he's playing DC Vs. us! I hope he can kick Roger's ass. I'll be there and will cheer for Andy, I'll take some mates with me. We are 20 ppl who'll cheer loudly for Andy:D:)
If he could beat Roger or Stan it would give him lots of confidence. I agree, he should play those big Challengers and he should at least win 1. The main goal for him should be not to lose places. He's now into 140, I think. He shouldn't play Binghampton! He played nearly every week since Wimbledon. He needs to rest. He's now on the same level as before Queens. The last Tournaments were just AWFUL..!!

I have to agree with the poster who wrote...
If those unlucky defeats Vs. Nalbandian at Wimbledon and Vs. Fish at Indianapolis didn't happen, he would now be very high ranked. He had his chances at Indianapolis where his draw was wide open, he could've beat Bastl and then he had his QF spot and would have become a Top100 player. I can't remember who was in his draw but it was a great chance to do better.

Another problem's that Andy seems to be "afraid" to win...!!! He was break up Vs. Nalbandian at Wimbledon and Vs. Fish at Indianapolis. He was up at Vancouver's challenger in the 2nd Vs. Baccanello 5-4 with a break and he joked it away 5-7. But what made me "happy" was, that he fought back and didn't gave the match away. 7-6 in the 3rd is AWFUL again:sad: But every bad situation has something positive. I can hardly remember that he just gave points away... Can you imagine a Roger Federer just give something away? Some friends told me about him when I didn't knew him, that he has something of Hewitt, not only his c'mon. They told the gamestyle, the returns, etc. But I can't imagine such a player would give points away. I know Andy isn't that fit yet, but he will work on it and this wont ever happen!!!

btw. this was his 1st loss to a lower ranked player then him, since Barcelona I think.


I'm not afraid that he'll stay on challenger circuit next year. He seems to be bored about playing guys ranked in the 300. He needs realy big challenges, such as Vs. Andy Roddick at the Open or in DC Vs. Federer or other big names. He needs to show the world that he wants to be a Top10 player and not just to give up..!!! He has what it needs to be a great player.

crazyrobert
08-08-2005, 01:44 AM
does anybody know where andy s playing next week

ClaycourtaZzZz.
08-08-2005, 09:35 AM
Binghampton, challenger.

shyscots25
08-08-2005, 07:40 PM
I don't want to be critical but I really wish Andy had taken the decision to have a go for qualifying at one of the Master's tournaments. I suppose it is still possible he might do that for Cincinatti next week, but a good run in this challenger tournament will preclude that!

Still, i am sure Andy and Mark know what they are doing, it just seems that the mammoth points up for grabs in the ATP events is something worth going for. Andy has been playing a lot of matches and will be going into the US open qualifying very match sharp, but, other than accumulating some safe points against mediocre players, what does he achieve choosing binghampton over cincy qualifying?

I sense Andy is someone capable of raising his game considerably in the right environment. Let's hope to see him back on the ATP tour very soon. If he believes in himself, he must take on the challenge.

kundalini
08-18-2005, 05:43 PM
It is weird how the situation changes so quickly.

Andy picks up 50 points for winning Binghampton and 35 for his win over Taylor Dent in Cincinnati.

Next is qualifying for the US Open (hopes of wildcard seem to have vanished) It is expected that Andy will be seeded among the top 16 (Despite my A level maths I have been struggling to work this one out but with wildcards and withdrawls he should get inside the top 16 just)

Interestingly he is on the entry list for Instanbul Challenger. I imagine this is in case he doesn't make it through qualifying.

Right now his chances of making the top 100 look fairly good though much depends on the US Open.

While his recent performances have been modest, his results have been excellent. He came through a difficult match against Harsh Mankad, saving 5 match points, beat Bogomolov and then Baker in the same day and Falla in the final to win Binghampton.

He then took advantage of his wildcard into Cincinnati (Fish withdrew injured) winning a close match against Taylor Dent before losing to Safin.

shyscots25
08-18-2005, 08:47 PM
Yeah qualifying is going to be huge. The seeding will help him. Let's hope for a kind draw. I was never very confident about him getting a wildcard anyway since these things tend to be allocated to the home based players, which is fair enough frankly. Qualifying starts next tuesday so the draw must be fairly soon!...Hopefully a trip to Turkey is not on the agenda!

stuey87
08-18-2005, 11:06 PM
It is weird how the situation changes so quickly.

Andy picks up 50 points for winning Binghampton and 35 for his win over Taylor Dent in Cincinnati.

Next is qualifying for the US Open (hopes of wildcard seem to have vanished) It is expected that Andy will be seeded among the top 16 (Despite my A level maths I have been struggling to work this one out but with wildcards and withdrawls he should get inside the top 16 just)

Interestingly he is on the entry list for Instanbul Challenger. I imagine this is in case he doesn't make it through qualifying.

Right now his chances of making the top 100 look fairly good though much depends on the US Open.

While his recent performances have been modest, his results have been excellent. He came through a difficult match against Harsh Mankad, saving 5 match points, beat Bogomolov and then Baker in the same day and Falla in the final to win Binghampton.

He then took advantage of his wildcard into Cincinnati (Fish withdrew injured) winning a close match against Taylor Dent before losing to Safin.


There is no doubt his results have been excellent recently. I just hope he really recharges from wednesday til tuesday after losing to Marat to give himself the best chance in the qualies. He has done very well picking up lots of points :D

stuey87
08-18-2005, 11:08 PM
Yeah qualifying is going to be huge. The seeding will help him. Let's hope for a kind draw. I was never very confident about him getting a wildcard anyway since these things tend to be allocated to the home based players, which is fair enough frankly. Qualifying starts next tuesday so the draw must be fairly soon!...Hopefully a trip to Turkey is not on the agenda!


Let's hope he qualifies and draws Taylor Dent or Santiago Ventura! :p
I agree Turkey wouldn't be good!
He's only going to gain experience playing Safin on hard and Fed on clay in Davis Cup most likely, all of which will help his progress. :)

kundalini
08-24-2005, 12:36 AM
Andy is an alternate for Tokyo.

But miles down the list in 13th place

chalkdust
08-24-2005, 12:30 PM
Andy is an alternate for Tokyo.

But miles down the list in 13th placeWell, a lot seems to have changed in just a few weeks! Andy's schedule has been very surprising to me, particularly the decision to play Binghampton. Yet he contrived to win that tournament and then got a wild card straight into the main draw at Cincy and picked up another 35 points there.

This has all made the assumed goal of reaching the top 100 by the end of this year look very achievable. He needs to earn about 110 more points between now and then, allowing for the 36 points that will roll off his record, and a fifteen point allowance for existing scores that will be replaed by any better ones. You could look at that as three Challenger semis and a quarter-final or a win and a final.

However, entering Tokyo seems a strange way to go about this. It would cut him out of Grenoble, Mons and the Stockholm qualies. But it seems that Tokyo is much more popular this year than last so he probably won't get in. He can't play the qualies because of the Davis Cup match the week before. So presumably he will withdraw from Tokyo when he sees the entry list and stay in Europe - unless he already has a WC deal.

Whatever happens, he will still have Kolding and Aachen. As kundalini points out, there are also some high-points Challengers in November, such as Luxembourg, but I have really been hoping that he will take some time out from the weekly grind to work on his fitness and his game. To me, this would suggest playing in Grenoble, Mons, Kolding and Aachen, leaving the November Challengers in reserve in case he really needs some extra points.

I certainly think Andy has been competing in far too many tournaments lately - this is his eighth consecutive week of play. Can he seriously be considering making that nine, even if he fails to qualify for the Open, by travelling to Istanbul? That surely would be utter madness. His reported shoulder injury is a worrying development and I really hope this is not too serious or the result of overuse.

Let's hope his results this week and next make all this speculation idle - a run to the third round would give him 90 points (83 if lucky loser), including 15 from qualifying (8 if lucky loser), which would take all the pressure off him for this season.

Maime
08-31-2005, 10:54 AM
He has got to the second round of the US Open, how many points does that give him?

ClaycourtaZzZz.
08-31-2005, 11:02 AM
35. When losing to Clement

Maime
08-31-2005, 08:06 PM
What if he beats Clement?

fivesetthriller
08-31-2005, 10:46 PM
If he beats Clement he'll get 78 entry ranking points and 10 race points. There are actually 75 entry ranking points for getting to the 3R but Andy gets an extra 15 qualifying points and loses 12 points for his Italy F22 win last year. If Andy beats Clement he will enter the Top 100.

Here are the points Andy can get for each round.

2R 38 entry ranking points (10 race points)

3R 78 entry ranking points (18 race points)

4R 153 entry ranking points (33 race points)

QF 253 entry ranking points (53 race points)

SF 453 entry ranking points (93 race points)

F 703 entry ranking points (143 race points)

W 1003 entry ranking points (203 race points)

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-01-2005, 10:47 AM
just beat clement and it's ok!

MurrayFan1
09-01-2005, 01:46 PM
Dude i signed up to the Murray forum on your site hehe :) My username is ally. Does anybody know how many pionts he got for the Pavel match and where that would put him in the rankings??

kundalini
09-04-2005, 12:47 AM
The word on the street (ok the Sunday Times) is that Andy will be playing in Bangkok and Tokyo.

So much for the European Indoor season.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-04-2005, 07:34 AM
:woohoo: cool:yeah: :lol:European Indoor season:lol:

timmoore46
09-04-2005, 04:13 PM
The word on the street (ok the Sunday Times) is that Andy will be playing in Bangkok and Tokyo.

So much for the European Indoor season.


Has anyone got some hard information on his next game?

Turkey?

Davis Cup?

BTW does he get any entry points for Davis Cup activity?

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-04-2005, 04:35 PM
Bangkok, 2 weeks

kundalini
09-04-2005, 04:41 PM
Not playing Instanbul. Withdrew

In the Davis Cup team but suggestions that he will not play Federer.

No entry points for Davis Cup.

Tennis players' schedules change at the drop of a hat. Anyone who has tried to follow Andy's schedule this summer will have already become accustomed to late changes.

But as of the papers today, probably getting their information from Andy or Mark, the schedule is:

Davis Cup

Bangkok (wildcard)
Tokyo qualifying/wildcard?
Madrid Masters qualifying
Paris Masters qualifying

(Alix Ramsey mentioned the last 2. The others come from Observer and Sunday Times)

Papakori
09-04-2005, 04:48 PM
Paris Masters Qualifying :yeah:

Maybe if he makes the maindraw I will be able to see him when I go! :yippee:

timmoore46
09-05-2005, 06:48 AM
Many thanks! That's most helpful!

How many entry points for winning each first round? and how many has he got to lose?

kundalini
09-05-2005, 02:05 PM
Andy is defending 24 points until the end of this year on the entry rankings. (He won 2 Futures tournaments in Spain late last year)

He is defending a further 27 points up until Queens next year as his results earlier this year were disappointing. (So expect a rapid rise up the rankings in the first 5 months of next year)

For the 48 draw masters assuming he received a wildcard he would get:
5 - 35 - 75 - 125 - 225 - 350 - 500

(explanation: lose 1st round = 5, lose 2nd round = 35 etc)

If he got through qualifying add 15 to the relevant figure.

For Tokyo 5 - 15 - 25 - 60 - 110 - 175 - 250

For Bangkok 5 - 15 - 40 - 75 - 120 - 175

These are all entry ranking points, for race points divide by 5.

timmoore46
09-08-2005, 09:12 PM
Many thanks Col-K for the info.... It's just so hard to get! :)

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-09-2005, 04:28 PM
Are you sure Andy will get a WC for Bangkok?

kundalini
09-12-2005, 12:01 AM
Well. Put it this way - Andy/Mark keep mentioning Andy playing in Bangkok. The Davis Cup tie means that Andy will not be able to make the qualifying.

Therefore, he must have a wildcard.

(Federer is also playing in Bangkok so there must be a flight that will get them there in time for 1st round matches. Andy will surely be booked on the same flight.)

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-12-2005, 02:59 PM
:yeah: thx mate!

kundalini
09-15-2005, 03:13 PM
Andy is on the entry list for the Mons Challenger

To date 2 of the 3 wildcards for Bangkok have been announced and they have gone to Hewitt and Philippoussis.

I wonder if Andy has not received one of the wildcards they had been anticipating - Bangkok and Tokyo.

Not sure of the official rules but it would be strange to enter Mons if he expects to be playing in Tokyo at the same time.

Just goes to show that Andy's schedule is almost impossible to predict - even when the information comes via Mark/Andy.

Robxon
09-15-2005, 03:46 PM
Since Murray has been accepted into the Main Draw for Mons, he cannot withdraw and play in any other tournament, including Tokyo, that week.

musefanatic
09-15-2005, 04:11 PM
Good luck Andy for Mons!!

kundalini
09-15-2005, 05:42 PM
Tennis players' schedules change at the drop of a hat. Anyone who has tried to follow Andy's schedule this summer will have already become accustomed to late changes.

But as of the papers today, probably getting their information from Andy or Mark, the schedule is:

Davis Cup

Bangkok (wildcard)
Tokyo qualifying/wildcard?
Madrid Masters qualifying
Paris Masters qualifying

(Alix Ramsey mentioned the last 2. The others come from Observer and Sunday Times)

OK so forget most of that.

The hat mentioned above must have dropped. Still awaiting the final wildcard from Bangkok but I imagine that will go to Udomchoke. Even the Masters qualifying look unlikely with Andy's ranking at 111.

decrepitude
09-15-2005, 06:09 PM
OK so forget most of that.

The hat mentioned above must have dropped. Still awaiting the final wildcard from Bangkok but I imagine that will go to Udomchoke. Even the Masters qualifying look unlikely with Andy's ranking at 111.


According to the Murray website at freewebs.com/andrewmurray/latestnews he has been given a wildcard for Bangkok

tennisgirl19
09-17-2005, 03:56 AM
Great news :woohoo:

kundalini
09-17-2005, 11:06 AM
According to Judy Murray, Andy's schedule for the autumn is 5 Challengers - Belgium, South Korea, and 3 in the States.

From the look of the calendar these might be:

Mons 125 + H
Seoul 100 + H
Boston 75 + H
Nashville 75
Champaign 50 + H

So Andy will be playing deep in November if this schedule proves to be accurate.

Equally, there are a couple of earlier US Challengers - Sacramento and Calabasas that may form part of the schedule.

(the entry lists for 10th Oct will be out next week and should give some clues)

decrepitude
09-17-2005, 03:45 PM
Lord, all these changes have me dizzy!

Kundalini - or anybody else - where can you find entry lists please?

tennisgirl19
09-17-2005, 07:25 PM
Yeah, all these changes is nuts too and its so much tennis. But hey he needs this tournament for his ranking to rise.

Thanks

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-17-2005, 07:27 PM
no qualies for Paris and Madrid!:mad: what a shitty scheudle

Papakori
09-17-2005, 08:50 PM
I hope I can go to Mons to watch Andy :yeah: only an hour away from me!

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-17-2005, 08:55 PM
hope it for you thomas:hug:

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-17-2005, 08:56 PM
Any news from Bangkok? It's driving me crazy:fiery:

Papakori
09-17-2005, 08:57 PM
hope it for you thomas:hug:
Thanks :hug:

Are you going to the Davis Cup? Sorry if you have said so before!

kundalini
09-19-2005, 01:12 AM
I think this is a fairly sensible schedule in the circumstances. Given the lack of wildcards, Andy's options were:

a) to play qualifying for ATP tour events like Basel or Stockholm etc and risk a nightmare opening round draw even if he managed to qualify. To hope that he would just make it into the qualifying draw for the Masters events in Madrid and Paris(unlikely given ranking of 111) and then win a round of two. (High Risk option)

b) to enter european challengers with difficult fields and hope to do well against the odd top 100 player that tends to feature in these tournaments. (Medium Risk)

c) to opt for challengers with easier fields in the hope that he can reach 70 - 85 in the rankings for the start of next year. (Low Risk)

Chosing option c) means Andy has a great chance to get 100+ points thus gaining him direct entry into Adelaide or Sydney prior to the Australian Open, similarly direct into Masters tournaments in Indian Wells and Miami.

And a decent chance of making the main draw of Monte Carlo, Rome and Hamburg provided he gets some results in the early part of 2006.

The way the system works - direct entry is based on rankings 6 weeks prior to the event - means that Andy's schedule for the early part of 2006 is very much dependent upon his results this autumn.

kundalini
09-21-2005, 12:02 PM
According to Judy Murray, Andy's schedule for the autumn is 5 Challengers - Belgium, South Korea, and 3 in the States.

From the look of the calendar these might be:

Mons 125 + H
Seoul 100 + H
Boston 75 + H
Nashville 75
Champaign 50 + H

So Andy will be playing deep into November if this schedule proves to be accurate.

Equally, there are a couple of earlier US Challengers - Sacramento and Calabasas that may form part of the schedule.

(the entry lists for 10th Oct will be out next week and should give some clues)

Andy is on the entry list for Sacramento 50k. (starting 10th Oct)

The field for this event is very similar to the fields for his previous Challengers in North America. Andy is the no 2 ranked player at this stage.

It now seems highly likely that Calabasas will also feature in Andy's schedule, and unlikely that he will play Nashville or Champaign. Again we will have to wait for the entry lists to see.

It is possible that he may play Busan rather than Seoul.

Andy is intending to spend much of Nov/Dec working on his fitness prior to the Australian Open in January.

Fee
09-22-2005, 04:50 AM
Hey Murray fans,

Andy is definitely coming to the Sacramento Challenger (I'll be helping out there, all day, everyday, since its near my home). The word is that he will then go to Calabasas afterwards, and probably Carson and Boston after that (more points and money at that Challenger). That's four solid weeks of tennis to end the season. Carson and Calabasas are actually pretty close to each other, on either side of Los Angeles, Sacramento is about 400 miles north. Nice little California vacation he's got going there... :D

Aus Open entries will be based on the rankings for Monday, December 5th of this year.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-22-2005, 06:34 AM
:lol: Hey, what are you doing here,:lick:

cool,:yeah: What entry ranking does he need to get directly into the MD of the AO?

Fee
09-22-2005, 02:45 PM
I had valid, accurate information, so I thought I would stop by and share it. :D

The top 104 players get direct entry into the Aus Open, so he would need to be Top 100 to be safe, in case there are injury protected guys. But, a few usually drop out of the AO, so top 105 should be good enough.

tennisgirl19
09-23-2005, 01:45 AM
Thanks for all the information! :)

kundalini
09-23-2005, 10:56 AM
Wildcard into Bangkok may yet happen.

Udomchoke got in directly after a large number of withdrawls so the 3rd wildcard spot is still open.

At the current rate we will only know when we see the official draw

tennisgirl19
09-24-2005, 02:58 AM
At the Thailand Open board there's a thread about Andy getting the widcard so I guess its official.

decrepitude
09-24-2005, 08:48 AM
Well, the poster said he got it from the player, but there is still nothing OFFICIAL that I can find. Both the ATP and the tournament's own websites have nothing about it that I can find.

Let's hope he plays better than yesterday if he does go.

kundalini
09-24-2005, 09:21 AM
Andy plays Bangkok

George Bastl in the first round.

Soderling/Vik to meet the winner.

decrepitude
09-24-2005, 09:26 AM
Yes, I see it is now on the ATP site. The Thailand Open site still isn't showing it - but then, they aren't even showing the qualifying draw, and that must have started by now. Obviously the tourney site isn't going to be much use....

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-24-2005, 09:41 AM
haha, class, if doubles are losing today, Andy will catch the next flight to Bangkok, kundalini, how many points would he get if he could beat those 2?

kundalini
09-24-2005, 04:38 PM
If Andy wins 2 matches he will get 40 points on the entry ranking system (8 points on the race).

5 - 15 - 40 - 75 - 120 - 175

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-25-2005, 11:00 AM
If Andy wins 2 matches He'll be around 95:yeah:

chalkdust
09-29-2005, 08:59 AM
According to Judy Murray, Andy's schedule for the autumn is 5 Challengers - Belgium, South Korea, and 3 in the States.

From the look of the calendar these might be:

Mons 125 + H
Seoul 100 + H
Boston 75 + H
Nashville 75
Champaign 50 + H

So Andy will be playing deep in November if this schedule proves to be accurate.

Equally, there are a couple of earlier US Challengers - Sacramento and Calabasas that may form part of the schedule.

(the entry lists for 10th Oct will be out next week and should give some clues)Hey, why doesn't he go for Busan the week after Seoul and then stop off in Dnepropetrovsk for the sparsely contested 125k+H challenger a couple of weeks after that? Unless he does really well, he could still make it back for Luxembourg and that would still leave the 50k challenger in Orlando on 28 November if he is still in search of a few more points.

Sorry about the sarcasm - I'm just concerned that he is really overdoing it. On the other hand, I agree with kundalini that it's a good decision to play the North American challengers rather than the more hotly contested, albeit higher-scoring European challengers/second-rate ATP events.

Kundalini is also right to stress the need to go higher than top 100 if Andy is to get a decent schedule for the first quarter of next year. But there is also a need for him to get proper rest and to give himself time to improve his fitness and to work with his coach on improving his game. Intercontinental travel is not a great way to work on your fitness as anyone who has gone to the gym when jet-lagged will be able to testify.

Anyhow, I've just seen that Andy has beaten Soderling in Bangkok, which is a great result. I can't see him getting past Ginepri in the QF but, nevertheless, this win has guaranteed him entry into the next three Slams!

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-29-2005, 09:54 AM
I'd say Andy should try to be 80. before november:scared:

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-29-2005, 09:55 AM
Hey, why doesn't he go for Busan the week after Seoul and then stop off in Dnepropetrovsk for the sparsely contested 125k+H challenger a couple of weeks after that? Unless he does really well, he could still make it back for Luxembourg and that would still leave the 50k challenger in Orlando on 28 November if he is still in search of a few more points.

Sorry about the sarcasm - I'm just concerned that he is really overdoing it. On the other hand, I agree with kundalini that it's a good decision to play the North American challengers rather than the more hotly contested, albeit higher-scoring European challengers/second-rate ATP events.

Kundalini is also right to stress the need to go higher than top 100 if Andy is to get a decent schedule for the first quarter of next year. But there is also a need for him to get proper rest and to give himself time to improve his fitness and to work with his coach on improving his game. Intercontinental travel is not a great way to work on your fitness as anyone who has gone to the gym when jet-lagged will be able to testify.

Anyhow, I've just seen that Andy has beaten Soderling in Bangkok, which is a great result. I can't see him getting past Ginepri in the QF but, nevertheless, this win has guaranteed him entry into the next three Slams!

Are you sure?

Fee
09-29-2005, 04:13 PM
Andy isn't guaranteed anything at this point, that was an odd statement. He needs to be in the top 100 on December 5th to get into the Aus Open, then he needs to stay there for the rest of the year to get into the others.

Anyway, for some odd reason, Andy did not enter the Calabasas Challenger in California the week of Oct 17th, he chose Kolding, Denmark instead. So why would he fly all the way to California to play one tournament, then fly all the way back to Europe the next week, when he could have just stayed in California for 3 weeks? Its not going to be that hot here in October and the points/prize money are the same. Who is managing his schedule?

chalkdust
09-30-2005, 08:59 AM
Andy isn't guaranteed anything at this point, that was an odd statement. He needs to be in the top 100 on December 5th to get into the Aus Open, then he needs to stay there for the rest of the year to get into the others.The point is that the way Andy's points are distributed, mostly won since June of this year, means that he will be in the top 100 at the entry dates for the Australian and French Opens, and even Wimbledon I believe - but he might just get a WC if he needs one! Maybe in theory you could devise a set of match results that would prevent that but in practical terms his points total will be above any total previously required to be ranked high enough to gain automatic entry to the Slams.

Thanks Fee for contributing this Kolding info - more proof of the insanity of Andy's schedule. I'll say one thing for his backroom people though, they sure know how to obtain wild cards for Andy. Andy himself obviously deserves to get them because of the way he performs and entertains people on court but nevertheless they are in short supply and others also are deserving.

Anyway, I'm very glad to take back what I said about Ginepri. Brilliant result for Andy that should take him up to about 85 in the rankings. Now, I will say that Hewitt will be too much for Andy in the semis ...

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-30-2005, 09:56 AM
He plays Srichaphan. Hewitt withdrew due to injury.

chalkdust
09-30-2005, 01:41 PM
He plays Srichaphan. Hewitt withdrew due to injury.Wow, what an opportunity. OK, so he has a chance against Srichapan but what if he plays Federer in the final? Not sure he is quite ready to win that one.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
09-30-2005, 02:54 PM
Wow, what an opportunity. OK, so he has a chance against Srichapan but what if he plays Federer in the final? Not sure he is quite ready to win that one.

He's ready but he can't beat Federer.

kundalini
10-01-2005, 12:11 AM
Slightly tedious point but Andy could have played in Tokyo as he was 13th on the alternates list and enough players have withdrawn for him to have made it.

The withdrawls make the field for Tokyo look pretty weak.

But Andy opted to enter Mons Challenger instead which happens to have a strong field for a challenger event.

Fee
10-01-2005, 12:57 AM
Well, who knew 3 weeks ago how much the Tokyo entries would drop. Once you enter a Challenger, the rules say you are stuck with it. But again, this is somewhat poor schedule managment (Bangkok, Belgium, California, Denmark... huh?). Yes, its hard to try to predict the future 6 weeks or 3 weeks in advance, but it just looks to me like his schedule was done without any focus and I think his coach should know better.

kundalini
10-01-2005, 01:59 PM
I tend to agree.

They thought he would be able to play his first choice of Bangkok, Tokyo, Madrid qualifying, Paris qualifying.

Then the wildcard for Bangkok went to Hewitt instead when Safin withdrew. Tokyo looked less than certain when more top 100 players decided to enter than last year. And the cut off point for the Masters looked too far off for him to get in.

So they changed plans to go for 5 Challengers. Only to find that local player Udomchoke didn't need the wildcard that was intended for him and Andy had actually made it into Bangkok.

And now they haven't got a clue whether they are coming or going.

Schedule management is not one of Mark Petchey's strengths. Though when you are relying on wildcards you are vulnerable to last minute changes.

I imagine their main aim was 100 - 200 points to get Andy safely in position for the Australian Open and Masters events early next year. In that respect the 120 points for Bangkok (assuming he doesn't beat Federer) means that he is likely to meet that target and perhaps even exceed it.

Fee
10-01-2005, 05:08 PM
Well if they decided he needed to play 5 Challengers, then why didn't they pick the 5 that were on the same Continent, 3 in the same state. Its not the points, because the California series are all $50K, Kolding is a $50K. I spoke to the TD in Sacramento and he had definitely been given the impression that Andy, like so many of the players, was just going to head south from here to play Calabasas the following week, and possibly Carson the week after. How simple would that have been, and by the time he got here he would have been the number one seed for all of them. This schedule is going to burn him out and he may not be playing anywhere come the last week of October.

To play the 2 Spring Masters events, he needs to be ranked in the Top 85 or so on the day the Aus Open begins. Top 79 get direct entry, but a few drop out.

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-01-2005, 05:29 PM
He is ranked that high now.

kundalini
10-01-2005, 06:23 PM
Well if they decided he needed to play 5 Challengers, then why didn't they pick the 5 that were on the same Continent, 3 in the same state. Its not the points, because the California series are all $50K, Kolding is a $50K. I spoke to the TD in Sacramento and he had definitely been given the impression that Andy, like so many of the players, was just going to head south from here to play Calabasas the following week, and possibly Carson the week after. How simple would that have been, and by the time he got here he would have been the number one seed for all of them. This schedule is going to burn him out and he may not be playing anywhere come the last week of October.

To play the 2 Spring Masters events, he needs to be ranked in the Top 85 or so on the day the Aus Open begins. Top 79 get direct entry, but a few drop out.

The current schedule is absolute madness. As Fee points out 3 California Challengers would have been an intelligent schedule and a fair chance to get another 100 points.

But hey, who wants to stay in California when you could spend a few more days at airports, in planes, getting over yet more jet-lag.

Fee
10-02-2005, 03:45 AM
Well, the more I think about it the more I think California is not going to be an issue. Something tells me he is going to pull out of it, and that bothers me just a little bit. I have never seen Andy play and I was really hoping to in Sacramento. If he does well in Belgium, there is no reason for him to fly all the way out here, just to turn around and fly back to Europe the next week. Bummer.

decrepitude
10-02-2005, 06:56 PM
Well, he has pulled out of Mons to try to qualify for Madrid; I would think the qualies for Madrid are held at the same time as Sacramento? Unless I am getting my dates muddled. So, no, sadly, I don't think you will see him

Fee
10-02-2005, 08:31 PM
Yes, your dates are muddled. If he has pulled out of Mons this week, its because he's tired (and he must be really tired to pass up a $125K Challenger). He can't go to Madrid qualies because he committed to the Kolding Challenger that week. Hmm, perhaps he will come to Sacramento then, and as our Number one seed, I can make an exception to the stated policy and pick him up at the airport (after all, I am the Transportation Coordinator...).

Note to Mark Petchey: Don't do an entry form this week for Week 43 Challengers. That way you can either try to get a WC for one of the 3 European tournies that week, or have the flexibility to ask for a Challenger wildcard. Sheesh, I should send you my resume...

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-02-2005, 08:41 PM
It's still open, mabe Madrid will give him a WC, he could accept it...

Fee
10-02-2005, 08:44 PM
No, he can't. Once you commit to a challenger, you must play it. The only other option is to take the week off. The week of Oct 17th, he plays Kolding or he goes home. He cannot play another tour level event until October 24th.

decrepitude
10-02-2005, 09:28 PM
Thanks for clarifying that, Fee; I had thought that was the position until I heard that Andy had said he was going to try to qualify for Madrid. Obviously you know far more about the system than his team - maybe you should apply for the job of organising them!

They had better make up their minds quickly if he has to play Mons, it's a long way from Bangkok...

kundalini
10-04-2005, 01:05 PM
Looks like California is off the agenda.

Mons
week off
Kolding
try qualifying for ATP event Basel or St Petersberg
qualifying for Paris Masters

Looks like the main aim is Paris Masters. If Andy is still playing Kolding at the semi stage he won't be able to enter qualifying for Basel or St Petersberg.

Still an outside possibility that wildcards might appear.

Fee
10-04-2005, 05:59 PM
Yep, he's not coming to Sacramento and he may not play Kolding either. Looks like Mons could be the last Challenger he plays for a while. Bummer, I was hoping to see him.

adee-gee
10-04-2005, 06:21 PM
:eek: Fee are you an Andy fan?

Raquel
10-04-2005, 08:42 PM
Looks like California is off the agenda.

Mons
week off
Kolding
try qualifying for ATP event Basel or St Petersberg
qualifying for Paris Masters

Looks like the main aim is Paris Masters. If Andy is still playing Kolding at the semi stage he won't be able to enter qualifying for Basel or St Petersberg.

Still an outside possibility that wildcards might appear.
Smart move not playing Sacramento. Sorry you won't get to see him (yet) Fee. Kolding may well be his last Challenger. As of 2006 he should be high enough to get into ATP events in January as there is usually 3 a week in the first couple of weeks. Hopefully he will get to play Paris this year.

Fee
10-04-2005, 08:47 PM
:eek: Fee are you an Andy fan?

No, I've never seen him play (hence my hope that he would come to Sacramento since I will be there all day, every day starting on Friday). Maybe his agent will figure out that the San Jose field is usually a bit weak and he'll come back to California in February.

adee-gee
10-04-2005, 09:26 PM
No, I've never seen him play (hence my hope that he would come to Sacramento since I will be there all day, every day starting on Friday). Maybe his agent will figure out that the San Jose field is usually a bit weak and he'll come back to California in February.

Are you driving the players around or just attending? If you're driving, I wanna hear all the gossip and some juicy stories :p

edit : I just saw your signature :lol: juicy stories and gossip please!

Fee
10-04-2005, 09:56 PM
Look at the entry list tomorrow when I make the updates, then tell me if you really want the gossip. :lol:

MrExcel
10-05-2005, 11:54 AM
No, he can't. Once you commit to a challenger, you must play it. The only other option is to take the week off. The week of Oct 17th, he plays Kolding or he goes home. He cannot play another tour level event until October 24th.

Are you sure about this? If your ranking is over 50 you can't play challengers, the only way to play is if the tournaments gives you a wildcard, as they have done with Olivier Rochus and Xavier Malisse this week in Mons. Imagine if Andy had made it into the Top 50 early in the year and he was committed to all these challenger events... if each tournament didn't give him a wildcard he wouldn't be able to play any tournaments for the rest of the year?! What would happen then?!

Fee
10-05-2005, 04:53 PM
Yes, I'm sure. You are using the wrong words. You can't ENTER a Challenger if your ranking is too high, but Challenger entries are done 3 weeks in advance (as in before the 30+ leap from his Bangkok final). No one really makes 'commitments' to Challengers, you just enter it 3 weeks in advance or you don't. Andy and his coach made comments to the press without thinking. I believe that they have since been 're-educated' by his agent at Octagon about his schedule. Mons will probably be his last Challenger, he will not play Sacramento, he will pull out of Kolding and that weekend he will play qualies at Basel or Lyon if he can't get a wildcard, then he will do the same for the Paris Masters.

Apparently, the original plan for Spetember/October was to get him into the Top 100 so he could get into the Aus Open. Now that they have done that, he can get a bit of rest and make the transition to 'full time ATP player.' He's in the Top 80 now, if he can sustain that, he doesn't need to play challengers anymore. It's all about the Big Time now. :D

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-05-2005, 05:17 PM
If he would win Mons he would be about no.55, right?:)

musefanatic
10-05-2005, 08:48 PM
oh that would be great! I'm just annoyed he didn't get a wildcard for the madrid masters, very stupid!! But at least if he qualifies, we know he's in good shape!

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-06-2005, 08:48 AM
:yeah: Then I get to see him:rocker2:

decrepitude
10-06-2005, 09:12 AM
The Daily Telegraph has the following at the end of article on Murray's win in Thursday's issue

"It is understood,that the Tour event in Basle,which takes place later this month
in Federer's home town have offered Murray a wild card"

I can't find that in the Telegraph online, but I do hope it is right. There is so much misinformation flying about in the media at the moment.

Duncan
10-06-2005, 02:59 PM
if thats true, maybe Roger asked them to offer him one?

they both seem to be kissing each others asses alot just now!

Fee
10-06-2005, 05:23 PM
oh that would be great! I'm just annoyed he didn't get a wildcard for the madrid masters, very stupid!! But at least if he qualifies, we know he's in good shape!

He's not allowed to get a wildcard for Madrid.........

decrepitude
10-06-2005, 06:20 PM
He's not allowed to get a wildcard for Madrid.........

Nor to play the qualifiers, I think?

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-06-2005, 06:22 PM
This is a shitty rule:(

musefanatic
10-06-2005, 07:34 PM
Can anyone tell me why that is?

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-06-2005, 08:39 PM
Cause the challengers want the players that entered their tournament to play it.

Fee
10-06-2005, 10:14 PM
I believe the rule has been discussed in this thread already, but one more time... When a player enters a Challenger, he is committed to that Challenger for the week. 3 weeks ago, Andy entered Sacramento and 2 weeks ago he entered Kolding. He cannot play anywhere else during those weeks. He can withdraw from Kolding and play qualifying the following weekend, but since he will probably get a WC to Basel, he won't need to do that. After Mons, he will take some time off. He returns to the tour the week of Oct 24th, and he can enter Paris Qualies if he wants to (I don't think the French will give him a main draw wildcard, do you?).

ClaycourtaZzZz.
10-06-2005, 10:16 PM
They say that Sky will get him a WC into Paris, they want him to be there:lol: