Canas´ doping investigation [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Canas´ doping investigation

DanEd
06-22-2005, 01:36 AM
Guillermo Cañas confirmó esta noche que la ATP lo está procesando por doping positivo. El tenista dijo que es inocente y que vive "una pesadilla".|

DanEd
06-22-2005, 01:36 AM
poor Willy:sad:

Denaon
06-22-2005, 01:38 AM
I'm speechless, I'd like to know more about this before any opinion :(

El Legenda
06-22-2005, 01:41 AM
cheater :mad:

Shy
06-22-2005, 01:42 AM
una pesadilla
What is una pesadilla?

DanEd
06-22-2005, 01:42 AM
moron :mad:
cheater :mad:

Denaon
06-22-2005, 01:42 AM
cheater :mad:
don't judge and jump into conclusions or I'll think you're just as dumb as some posters think you are

Denaon
06-22-2005, 01:42 AM
una pesadilla
What is una pesadilla?
a nightmare

DanEd
06-22-2005, 01:44 AM
a nightmare
una pesadilla
What is una pesadilla?

DanEd
06-22-2005, 01:49 AM
Cañas reconoció que salió doping positivo







“Soy inocente”, aseguró, sin embargo, el tenista número uno de Argentina. Aseguró que está “shockeado” y que vive “una pesadilla”.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guillermo Cañas confirmó esta noche que la ATP lo está procesando por doping positivo y debido a esa delicada situación se declaró "inocente, shockeado" y viviendo "una pesadilla".

Cañas formuló declaraciones a través de un comunicado firmado por su entrenador, Michel Duchote, y en el mismo aclaró que podría jugar la Copa Davis contra Australia, pero que no lo hará "por dos razones: "una, conocida, que es mi lesión en la muñeca, y a la que se agrega el proceso que me sigue la ATP y no quiero que se corra ningún riesgo de quita de puntos en caso de protesta del equipo contrario".

"Si bien en estos casos hay un pacto de confidencialidad para no hacer declaraciones, me veo en la obligación de hacerlas porque necesito hacerlo y para aclarar mi situación", se inicia la nota.

Agrega Cañas que no sabe qué pudo haber ocurrido, "que es difícil de entender" que le haya dado doping positivo y que al enterarse comenzó "a vivir una pesadilla".

"Siempre nos cuidamos con mi equipo de hacer un régimen totalmente natural, así que estoy reconstruyendo minuciosamente cada uno de mis pasos. Estoy shockeado, pero soy inocente", concluyó.

(Fuente: DyN)

oneandonlyhsn
06-22-2005, 01:50 AM
Well regardless of how he came into contact with the drugs the ATP is extremely strict about these matters. Just look Puerta, I wonder what will happen to him.

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 01:50 AM
I can´t believe this.....I trust you Willy it has to be a mistake.....:hug:

Carito_90
06-22-2005, 01:55 AM
I'm in awe. This is unbelievable... and so unfair. Right when he was at his best in his career, this happens.
But I believe him, if he says he's innocent then he shall be so.

Doctor Dance
06-22-2005, 01:56 AM
Is this why he pulled out of Wimbledon?

Denaon
06-22-2005, 01:57 AM
Is this why he pulled out of Wimbledon?
He says he has this injury but I think this helped him out...

iliketennis
06-22-2005, 01:58 AM
This is terrible! :sad: Canas is such a hard worker, I can't imagine him intentionaly cheating. This could just turn out to be another "Svetlana". I wouldn't be too worried just yet Canas fans :)

El Legenda
06-22-2005, 01:59 AM
don't judge and jump into conclusions or I'll think you're just as dumb as some posters think you are

so taking illgal drugs is not cheating?


guilty untill proven other wise.

Scotso
06-22-2005, 01:59 AM
You know, you like to be tolerant and believe that people make mistakes, but you have to admit that these Argentine players seem to fall into this scandal a bit too often.

Doctor Dance
06-22-2005, 02:01 AM
It would be so unbelievable if canas was cheating! :sad:

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 02:02 AM
so taking illgal drugs is not cheating?

Sometimes there are mistakes.....like contaminated vitamins, doctors forgetting to report some medicine that doesn´t help in any way....
It has happened in the past with other players....

So why don´t you wait for more information before talking shit about people :fiery:

Doctor Dance
06-22-2005, 02:03 AM
The problem here is, even if he were cheating how do you prove it?

Denaon
06-22-2005, 02:05 AM
You know, you like to be tolerant and believe that people make mistakes, but you have to admit that these Argentine players seem to fall into this scandal a bit too often.
well, it's not up to you to be tolerant

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 02:06 AM
You know, you like to be tolerant and believe that people make mistakes, but you have to admit that these Argentine players seem to fall into this scandal a bit too often.

I can imagine Cañas worring about what you think....please.... :(

Scotso
06-22-2005, 02:07 AM
LOL. Seriously, there's nothing wrong with what I said. If you want to be defensive do it to someone who is actually attacking you. :rolleyes:

mitalidas
06-22-2005, 02:08 AM
Isn't this the second allegation? I may be wrong, but wasn't Canas "convicted" of taking dope previously? If so, the new allegation is unlikely to be viewed as a random error

binkygirl
06-22-2005, 02:08 AM
We all need to just wait and see. Canas is undoubtedly a talented player and I'm sure that if he did come into contact with banned substances, it was just a mistake like with Greg Rudeski. Wasn't there another player wrongfully accused a while ago? I've got faith in him.

Carito_90
06-22-2005, 02:09 AM
The problem here is, even if he were cheating how do you prove it?

Ask Kuznetzova.

so taking illgal drugs is not cheating?

You know these kind of mistakes happen very often. Sure taking illegal drugs is cheating but how do you know he took them on purpose, specially if he claims he is innocent.

guilty untill proven other wise.

Stupid untill proven otherwise.

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 02:10 AM
We all need to just wait and see. Canas is undoubtedly a talented player and I'm sure that if he did come into contact with banned substances, it was just a mistake like with Greg Rudeski. Wasn't there another player wrongfully accused a while ago? I've got faith in him.

That was what I was saying....I can´t agree more with you....let´s just wait and see....

drf716
06-22-2005, 02:11 AM
oh poor him and his beaten players

Carito_90
06-22-2005, 02:13 AM
Isn't this the second allegation? I may be wrong, but wasn't Canas "convicted" of taking dope previously? If so, the new allegation is unlikely to be viewed as a random error

No, Cañas had never been found guilty of taking illegal drugs. Coria and Puerta have, though.

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 02:14 AM
No, Cañas had never been found guilty of taking illegal drugs. Coria and Puerta have, though.


Chela also

Doctor Dance
06-22-2005, 02:15 AM
Cañas reconoció que salió doping positivo







“Soy inocente”, aseguró, sin embargo, el tenista número uno de Argentina. Aseguró que está “shockeado” y que vive “una pesadilla”.





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guillermo Cañas confirmó esta noche que la ATP lo está procesando por doping positivo y debido a esa delicada situación se declaró "inocente, shockeado" y viviendo "una pesadilla".

Cañas formuló declaraciones a través de un comunicado firmado por su entrenador, Michel Duchote, y en el mismo aclaró que podría jugar la Copa Davis contra Australia, pero que no lo hará "por dos razones: "una, conocida, que es mi lesión en la muñeca, y a la que se agrega el proceso que me sigue la ATP y no quiero que se corra ningún riesgo de quita de puntos en caso de protesta del equipo contrario".

"Si bien en estos casos hay un pacto de confidencialidad para no hacer declaraciones, me veo en la obligación de hacerlas porque necesito hacerlo y para aclarar mi situación", se inicia la nota.

Agrega Cañas que no sabe qué pudo haber ocurrido, "que es difícil de entender" que le haya dado doping positivo y que al enterarse comenzó "a vivir una pesadilla".

"Siempre nos cuidamos con mi equipo de hacer un régimen totalmente natural, así que estoy reconstruyendo minuciosamente cada uno de mis pasos. Estoy shockeado, pero soy inocente", concluyó.

(Fuente: DyN)

could you translate this into to english?

mitalidas
06-22-2005, 02:16 AM
No, Cañas had never been found guilty of taking illegal drugs. Coria and Puerta have, though.
Thanks

I posted another question on the other site. I don't want to offend anybody, so please don't take it that way -- do any Argentines feel that the Argentines are being specifically profiled for dope?

Puerta, Canas, Coria, Chela. Of only 7-8 cases in the last 5 years, half have been from Argentina. Do these players think that they are being persecuted, is there any sense of that? Or is this just some crazy coincidence?

Carito_90
06-22-2005, 02:16 AM
Yes, but I don't recall Chela being suspended by it... was he?

Shy
06-22-2005, 02:18 AM
Thanks



Puerta, Canas, Coria, Chela. Of only 7-8 cases in the last 5 years, half have been from Argentina. Do these players think that they are being persecuted, is there any sense of that? Or is this just some crazy coincidence?
I don't think that it is coincidence.I do find weird that half have been from argentina.

Doctor Dance
06-22-2005, 02:19 AM
wow i didn't realise so many with doping allegations were from argentina

iliketennis
06-22-2005, 05:11 AM
:rolleyes: The anti-doping commitee don't decide whether the test returns positive

Auscon
06-22-2005, 05:18 AM
if he gets done for it, you idiot

and no Canas for DC against Aus, damn, guess they'll have to play Puerta instead :)

Chloe le Bopper
06-22-2005, 05:26 AM
I imagine Vladmir agape with shock upon hearing the news.

oneandonlyhsn
06-22-2005, 05:29 AM
Well tennis players are the most frequently tested athletes and that is why players have to be very careful of what they eat, buy bleh bleh.

With so many players trying to beat the system in other sports, I dont know what/who to believe anymore :shrug:

Fee
06-22-2005, 05:32 AM
Of all the players on the tour that I have never met, Canas is the one that I have always heard and believed was so decent, fair, and well-liked. I find this very hard to believe and want to hear more information, much more. (what was the substance, where does he think it came from, when was the test, etc, etc, etc.).

Shabazza
06-22-2005, 05:54 AM
Of all the players on the tour that I have never met, Canas is the one that I have always heard and believed was so decent, fair, and well-liked. I find this very hard to believe and want to hear more information, much more. (what was the substance, where does he think it came from, when was the test, etc, etc, etc.).
Ditto!

SuperFurryAnimal
06-22-2005, 08:21 AM
Can anyone please translate the article? My Spanish isn't what is has been before... ;)
I just want to know: is it already certain he's guilty, or are these still speculations?

Purple Rainbow
06-22-2005, 08:27 AM
Thanks

I posted another question on the other site. I don't want to offend anybody, so please don't take it that way -- do any Argentines feel that the Argentines are being specifically profiled for dope?

Puerta, Canas, Coria, Chela. Of only 7-8 cases in the last 5 years, half have been from Argentina. Do these players think that they are being persecuted, is there any sense of that? Or is this just some crazy coincidence?

It's not coincidental. The only coincidence here is that most doping suspects are coming from a country which had the biggest rise in number of top players in recent memory.
But I won't accuse anybody before they are proven guilty. I like Cañas a lot and hope that this doping case is just a fluke.

binkygirl
06-22-2005, 08:28 AM
Thanks

I posted another question on the other site. I don't want to offend anybody, so please don't take it that way -- do any Argentines feel that the Argentines are being specifically profiled for dope?

Puerta, Canas, Coria, Chela. Of only 7-8 cases in the last 5 years, half have been from Argentina. Do these players think that they are being persecuted, is there any sense of that? Or is this just some crazy coincidence?

Maybe its just that in Argentina there are more drugs that have trace amounts of the same products used in doping medications. The tests used for detecting doping are very sensitive and detect even the smallest amount. Its not that hard to come up positive after say taking a sinus product that has a minute amount of some sort of chemical used in doping. There are scads of very commonly used products that have trace amounts of the same chemicals used in doping, which would make a test positive. The ATP should only punish based on the amount detected; if there is alot detected, then its obvious that the player is a regular user.

I also don't like the way that the ATP has not publicly apologized to players wrongfully accused of doping. There should be a section on their website listing players accused and then exonerated. Instead, they've left those players with a nasty taint on their careers.

hablovah19
06-22-2005, 10:10 AM
shocking.

terrible timing.

hope we get more info soon.

jazz_girl
06-22-2005, 10:44 AM
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/EdicionImpresa/deportiva/nota.asp?nota_id=714982
"I'm here showing my face for several reasons. One is to announce I won't be playing in the Davis Cup, because of a hand injury. Second, is to announce that I'm in a doping process with the ATP. That's why I'm also out of the DC team. Australia could claim points and I don't want anyone harmed in Argentina"
"The positive test is hard, I'm a preofessional...I don't know what happened. I reviewed with my team all the things I've taken and there's nothing forbidden. I trust the system: I hope it's a mistake, nothing else. I'm talking today, after being silent about this for a while. But the ATP didn't let me talk. I don't know how the rumor started and it doesn't interest me either. Now I have the possibility to talk and I want you to hear it from my mouth. I've always showed my face and I won't hide it now. I was always clear and transparent in my decisons and I needed to say this"
"I would have never wanted to live this moment. I never looked to take something extra or something that wasn't allowed to take advantage of tennis. I'm living something I don't understand. It's ugly and weird. Doping has many medicines that can be positive without being a drug. A herbal tea can be positive"

He's being accused of a positive test because of a diuretic he took during Acapulco, and the ATP will decide on this in 7 weeks. There has been 3 other problems of a positive doping with diuretics, however those 3 players weren't suspended.

oneandonlyhsn
06-22-2005, 10:52 AM
Thanks for the article Jazzy-Girl :wavey:
Hope all this gets sorted out. Sure doesnt look very good for Argentina though. They have had a lot of doping cases true or false :sad:

lau
06-22-2005, 10:59 AM
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/EdicionImpresa/deportiva/nota.asp?nota_id=714982
"I'm here showing my face for several reasons. One is to announce I won't be playing in the Davis Cup, because of a hand injury. Second, is to announce that I'm in a doping process with the ATP. That's why I'm also out of the DC team. Australia could claim points and I don't want anyone harmed in Argentina"
"The positive test is hard, I'm a preofessional...I don't know what happened. I reviewed with my team all the things I've taken and there's nothing forbidden. I trust the system: I hope it's a mistake, nothing else. I'm talking today, after being silent about this for a while. But the ATP didn't let me talk. I don't know how the rumor started and it doesn't interest me either. Now I have the possibility to talk and I want you to hear it from my mouth. I've always showed my face and I won't hide it now. I was always clear and transparent in my decisons and I needed to say this"
"I would have never wanted to live this moment. I never looked to take something extra or something that wasn't allowed to take advantage of tennis. I'm living something I don't understand. It's ugly and weird. Doping has many medicines that can be positive without being a drug. A herbal tea can be positive"

He's being accused of a positive test because of a diuretic he took during Acapulco, and the ATP will decide on this in 7 weeks. There has been 3 other problems of a positive doping with diuretics, however those 3 players weren't suspended.

As far as I know, the test was positive for diuretic (and diuretics are not allowed, because they "wash" other forbiden substances). He says he didn´t took one!! And I believe him(just my personal opinion here). Test are very strict and a positive test of diuretic can be a result of taking/drinking many other things (some of them not prohibited). But I`m not an specialist.... The ATP didn´t decide about this yet ;)

Alvarillo
06-22-2005, 11:04 AM
another Argentinean ....
bad news for this talented country in tennis coz some people will say that all they have got is thanks to drug, but i don't believe
i think, argentineans as same as spaniards work a lot, train hours and hours, much more time on court than players from other countries.
and Willy .... poor Willy i eish him the best i want to believe that he is innocent...
good luck!
ánimo guillermo!

Aleksa's Laydee
06-22-2005, 11:05 AM
wow im shocked

jazz_girl
06-22-2005, 11:08 AM
I believe Willy as well! What makes me mad is the fact that the journalists start spreading these rumors before it's even confirmed by the ATP! Who knows how many players are being investigated right now that we don't know of and then the ATP decides they're not innocent cause they could prove it, but now, even though Willy can prove that, the question mark will always be with him, and I don't think that's fair...

zoltan83
06-22-2005, 11:11 AM
:sad: Cañas :sad: Hope he can prove his innocence.

Plastic Bertrand
06-22-2005, 11:15 AM
Yes, but I don't recall Chela being suspended by it... was he?

Chela was suspended for testing positive to nandrolone.

This is very bad news for Cañas and his fans and as for whether he is guilty or not, I would like to hear more information and in addition it does seem that it must not be a good idea to be Czech or Argentine when it comes to positive anti-doping tests.

NINA_BCN
06-22-2005, 11:22 AM
Does anybody know which is the substance that they have "found" in his analysis?? EPO?

:mad: I can't believe it's happening to Cañas!!! :mad:

lau
06-22-2005, 11:22 AM
and the title of this thread is WRONG. Cañas` doping was NOT confirmed YET. What was confirmed is that there`s an investigation about it and that ONE test was possitive..... that`s not the SAME thing.... ;)
Innocent until probed to be guilty.....
Geeeeeez, this is not against anyone in particular, it`s not personal, but some threads` titles here are worst than the titles of some tabloids :rolleyes:

Plastic Bertrand
06-22-2005, 11:24 AM
Does anybody know which is the substance that they have found in his analysis?? EPO?

It was not EPO, jazz had posted a translation earlier and it was allegedly a diuretic.

*Ljubica*
06-22-2005, 11:35 AM
I believe Willy as well! What makes me mad is the fact that the journalists start spreading these rumors before it's even confirmed by the ATP! Who knows how many players are being investigated right now that we don't know of and then the ATP decides they're not innocent cause they could prove it, but now, even though Willy can prove that, the question mark will always be with him, and I don't think that's fair...

I believe Willy as well - 100%. I hope this is cleared up quickly. I agree that the question mark will always hang over him - just like it has with Greg Rusedski who was proved innocent. These journalists are disgusting - tampering with peoples' lives for the sake of a "good story".

NINA_BCN
06-22-2005, 11:35 AM
It was not EPO, jazz had posted a translation earlier and it was allegedly a diuretic.

Thanx, I didn't read it!

If they have found a diuretic in his analysis, It's normal they want to do an investigation. Diuretics are used to eliminate faster dopping substances introduced directly to the blood by the urine.

(I hope you've understood what I'm trying to say). :p

Experimentee
06-22-2005, 11:57 AM
I think it cant be a coincidence that most of the cases are from Argentina. Maybe it is easier to access banned substances there, intentionally or not.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 12:01 PM
I think it cant be a coincidence that most of the cases are from Argentina. Maybe it is easier to access banned substances there, intentionally or not.

That or they are targeted? It defintiely helps to come from some countries rather than others and I remember Rios pretty much saying the same thing.

Bilbo
06-22-2005, 12:06 PM
I trust in Willy. He's 100% innocent and I would bet my house on him that he is.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 12:08 PM
If they have found a diuretic in his analysis, It's normal they want to do an investigation. Diuretics are used to eliminate faster dopping substances introduced directly to the blood by the urine.

(I hope you've understood what I'm trying to say). :p

Yes, there needs to be an investigation and a very thorough one at that. I am wondering who did these tests? The ATP have not shown themselves to be competent in this issue, the whole Rusedski case is an example of that.

As for diuretics well they can be used as masking agents, but if a player is going to take a substance like that, it would be done in the off-tournament week and not during one where the evidence of doping use is going to be clearer.

If the World Doping Agency actually conducted the test, it would be a lot harder for Cañas to get out of it. At the same time anyone could go and get some pseudoephidrine in a cough medicine mixture to unclogged a blocked chest or suffering from bronchitis, and if made to take a dope test, then they would fail.

I'll wait and see for more news and even if innocent, the stigma will be there either way.

Judexo
06-22-2005, 12:12 PM
Guillermo Cañas confirmó esta noche que la ATP lo está procesando por doping positivo. El tenista dijo que es inocente y que vive "una pesadilla".|

can someone please put that in english - please

justClaudia
06-22-2005, 12:13 PM
Poor Willy...

I only hope he can prove he's innocent.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 12:13 PM
can someone please put that in english - please

Scroll up the thread, it has been explained a few times.

An investigation into Cañas for taking a diuretic.

undomiele
06-22-2005, 12:38 PM
Cañas said it was an ATP investigation so I assume it was an atp test.

Furthermore, I fully believe that the medicine sold here in argentina (and most of them are fabricated here) is often "adulterated" with trace amounts of substances unlisted on the box. Even doctors don't really know what are in the products although they may believe they do. Im probably on twenty different types of trace steriods as I write and sip my coffee. ;)

The key word here is "trace" though. The atp should definitely consider that their tests are a mite too sensitive and seriously take into consideration other uses of the drug incorporated in over the counter products drugs sold in latin american countries with astonishingly poor medical regulation systems. :rolleyes:

Someone here mentioned it was just one positive test out of a series of negative tests. I hope thats what all this is about.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 12:44 PM
Cañas said it was an ATP investigation so I assume it was an atp test.

Well, that gives me more hope as I have said before the ATP haven't exactly been the best in this regard.

The key word here is "trace" though. The atp should definitely consider that their tests are a mite too sensitive and seriously take into consideration other uses of the drug incorporated in over the counter products drugs sold in latin american countries with astonishingly poor medical regulation systems. :rolleyes:

That's the problem some things can easily be bought over the counter in some countries, whereas they need a doctor's prescription as they are banned in others.

Someone here mentioned it was just one positive test out of a series of negative tests. I hope thats what all this is about

If that's the case, then they should have a B sample as well. As for the testing the ATP should just hand it over to the WDA.

undomiele
06-22-2005, 12:49 PM
If that's the case, then they should have a B sample as well. As for the testing the ATP should just hand it over to the WDA.

And admit theyre absolutely pathetic at what they do??? :eek: No way. They love being the kingpins of the tennis world.

star
06-22-2005, 12:50 PM
Everyone who is found doping has a story about why they aren't guilty. The includes athletes from all sports.

If Argentina has a problem with having over the counter medications that are tainted with other drugs, the Argentine players shouldn't be buying medications in South America.

I've heard the "contaminated" explaination one too many times.

I think it's amazing that there's the cry of "innocent until proven guilty" for Canas (with the wavy over the n that I don't know how to put on), but posters are quite willing to condemn the ATP testing process and say that it is somehow flawed.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 12:52 PM
And admit theyre absolutely pathetic at what they do??? :eek: No way. They love being the kingpins of the tennis world.

Even the IAAF clowns that run athletics, have let the WADA run the testing. I remember when Rios said if this was Agassi when it came to a positive drugs test that they'd cover it up. The thing is that doesn't surprise me in the least.

Interesting how Cañas is probably the best ranked player to have been investigated and yes this means I'll have to log on here more, so I can follow this.

star
06-22-2005, 12:55 PM
Yes, but I don't recall Chela being suspended by it... was he?

Chela was suspended. I'm pretty sure he was suspended for at least one year at least.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 12:56 PM
The ATP testing system has been proven to be flawed already, it only takes one clear case for that to be so. The Rusedski one is clear enough as Fee explained previously. This organisation lost a case because they gave contaminated supplements to their own athletes, if they can't get that right, how could they be competent when conducting tests, which should be done independently.

liptea
06-22-2005, 01:00 PM
If Argentina has a problem with having over the counter medications that are tainted with other drugs, the Argentine players shouldn't be buying medications in South America.



I don't think its quite that easy. You can't just waltz into some random country and get medication, especially one with a better medical system that requires stringent citizenship laws for healthcare. Even if he managed to do it, I'm sure that he's hasn't been walking into the local pharmacy and purchasing his own medicine. Canas wouldn't be taking anything anyway without the approval of his doctor and trainer and all. This is just a wayward occurrence.

knight_ley
06-22-2005, 01:06 PM
I'm in awe. This is unbelievable... and so unfair. Right when he was at his best in his career, this happens.
But I believe him, if he says he's innocent then he shall be so.


:sad: I agree with every single thing you just said.

*Elsie*
06-22-2005, 01:15 PM
guilty untill proven other wise.Innocent until proven otherwise.

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 01:37 PM
The ATP testing system has been proven to be flawed already, it only takes one clear case for that to be so. The Rusedski one is clear enough as Fee explained previously. This organisation lost a case because they gave contaminated supplements to their own athletes, if they can't get that right, how could they be competent when conducting tests, which should be done independently.

I agree with you. And when some people says that maybe the argentine players are somehow targeted, i´m not saying that all of them, but Coria´s case was pretty much the same as Rusedski´s and he was suspended. Coria even supported Rusedski in his case, because the ATP gave him contaminated vitamins also.
So there is something there....I´m not saying that I´ll put my hands in the fire for every player, but you have to at least have your doubts about ATP testing for doping.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 01:42 PM
I agree with you. And when some people says that maybe the argentine players are somehow targeted, i´m not saying that all of them, but Coria´s case was pretty much the same as Rusedski´s and he was suspended. Coria even supported Rusedski in his case, because the ATP gave him contaminated vitamins also.

The way it comes across is that it's only Argentines and Czech players who are guilty of doping, when that is not solely the truth. As for Coria he put his hands up and took the punishment, that was probably because at the time, he didn't have the financial backing to take the ATP on and as for the Rusedski case, no wonder the case was thrown out.

So there is something there....I´m not saying that I´ll put my hands in the fire for every player, but you have to at least have your doubts about ATP testing for doping.

That's why I believe the WDA should be doing the testing and not the ATP, as they are not affiliated with the organisation and the thing that I find very funny is that the 2 drugs which would benefit most in tennis, there has not been a positive test for either of them.

novanora
06-22-2005, 01:45 PM
First seeing this thread topic, I was totally shocked. Willy is one of my biggest favs, he works so hard for his career, and I will never believe he doped purposely :(

I feel pathetic to those medias. There could be many players got the sets of tests, and not only few of them get some positive result in the process, but blowing up Willy as their concentration let me feel they seem "excited" to catch a top 10 player, and he is an Argentinian. :rolleyes: I hope they can clarify this soon after the whole process, if getting some mistake, though I do think it already hurt Willy's career somewhat. This is not fair to his hard-working career.

And thanks Jazz for your information, you let me got some idea of this event.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 01:48 PM
Here are 2 articles that I can't translate

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=338233

Martes, 21 de junio de 2005

Está viviendo "una pesadilla"


El tenista argentino Guillermo Cañas reconoció que la ATP lo está procesando por un doping positivo, situación que le prepocupa


Cañas dice no saber cómo ocurrió el dóping


(AP)BUENOS AIRES (DyN/ EFE) -- Guillermo Cañas confirmó en la noche del martes que la ATP lo está procesando por doping positivo y debido a esa delicada situación se declaró "inocente, shockeado" y viviendo "una pesadilla".
Cañas formuló declaraciones a través de un comunicado firmado por su entrenador Michel Ducoté y en el mismo aclaró que podría jugar la Copa Davis contra Australia, pero que no lo hará "por dos razones: "una, conocida, que es mi lesión en la muñeca, y a la que se agrega el proceso que me sigue la ATP y no quiero que se corra ningún riesgo de quita de puntos en caso de protesta del equipo contrario".

Como no quiero dejar ninguna puerta abierta ni perjudicar a nadie en este camino, y menos a mi país, me bajo de la Copa Davis", indicó el tenista bonaerense.

"Tengo fe en que vamos a descubrir por qué ha ocurrido esto y eso me hace sentir que voy a volver a jugar pronto", añadió.

"Si bien en estos casos hay un pacto de confidencialidad para no hacer declaraciones, me veo en la obligación de hacerlas porque necesito hacerlo y para aclarar mi situación", se inicia la nota.

Agrega Cañas que no sabe que pudo haber ocurrido, "que es difícil de entender" que le haya dado doping positivo y que al enterarse comenzó "a vivir una pesadilla".

"Siempre nos cuidamos con mi equipo de hacer un regimen totalmente natural, así que estoy reconstruyendo minuciosamente cada uno de mis pasos. Estoy shockeado, pero soy inocente", concluyó.

"Sé que soy inocente y que me acompaña gente de bien. Sé que venimos desde abajo peleándola lealmente, que la gente del tenis me conoce y sabe que soy una persona derecha que me manejo con la verdad. Y eso me da fuerza", afirmó.

Con sus declaraciones, Cañas confirmó una versión periodística que había circulado durante todo el día en el mundillo deportivo de Argentina, según la cual la sustancia prohibida sería un diurético.

La Asociación de Tenistas Profesionales emitió el martes un comunicado en el que destacaba que no podía "confirmar ni negar" un supuesto caso de dopaje positivo de un tenista argentino.

De confirmarse el positivo en las contra-pruebas, el caso de Cañas sería el cuarto entre los jugadores argentinos.

El primero se registró en 2001 y tuvo como protagonista a Juan Ignacio Chela, quien fue suspendido por tres meses.

El segundo ocurrió ese mismo año con Guillermo Coria, que recibió una sanción de siete meses, y en el tercero estuvo involucrado Mariano Puerta, cuyo caso salió a la luz en 2003 y motivó una suspensión de nueve meses.




http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/story?id=338160

Se conoció la causa del problema


Según las primeras informaciones, el presunto dóping positivo de
Guillermo Cañas se dio por la detección de un diurético


BUENOS AIRES (DyN) -- Según las primeras informaciones, el presunto
dóping positivo de Guillermo Cañas se dio por la detección de un
diurético ingerido en uno de los torneos de la gira sudamericana de
polvo de ladrillo, que no fue el ATP de Buenos Aires.
Un allegado al grupo médico de Cañas confió a DyN, bajo condición de
reservar el anonimato, que "el diurético es muy perseguido por la
gente del comité de antidopaje de ATP porque se utiliza como un
enmascarador".

También aclaró que "el diurético puede tapar algunas sustancias
prohibidas, pero en pequeñas dosis".

El profesional aclaró que, en el caso de los boxeadores y
luchadores, "los diuréticos se utilizan para bajar rápidamente de
peso y no están penados en ese ámbito".

El caso de Cañas sería el cuarto entre los jugadores argentinos.
Ningún país tiene el triste privilegio de ser el "más sancionado".

El primero fue Juan Ignacio Chela, por metiltestosterona y le
correspondió una suspensión de tres meses en abril del 2001.

Ayudado por Guillermo Vilas, que espontáneamente se presentó en ATP
para defender a Chela, al tenista le correspondió una sanción
relativamente baja a pesar de consumir un esteroide anabólico que
mejora la masa muscular.

Luego llegó el caso de Guillermo Coria. El santafesino fue sancionado
seis meses por nandrolona, sustancia que también fortalece la
musculatura.

Lo cierto es que Coria ingirió un complejo vitamínico de venta libre
que estaba contaminado. El jugador le ganó un juicio al laboratorio
europeo que produce tal complejo. El último fue Mariano Puerta. Por
clenbuterol, utilizado para casos de asma.

El caso Puerta salió a la luz a finales de 2003 y fue suspendido por
nueve meses por ingerir una droga prescripta tras un ataque de asma
en Chile que el jugador no informó haber consumido.

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 01:48 PM
That´s why some people should now the cases better before saying some things.
For instance the Puerta case, where he took an asma medication, and the doctor forgot to report it...that´s only one example thats used by some stupids to call stadistics about argentines getting nailed on doping...

And that´s why I get so upset with some posters.

KarstenBraasch#1
06-22-2005, 01:50 PM
Hehe I knew it already 3 years ago. :p http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=25345

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 01:52 PM
That´s why some people should now the cases better before saying some things.
For instance the Puerta case, where he took an asma medication, and the doctor forgot to report it...that´s only one example thats used by some stupids to call stadistics about argentines getting nailed on doping...

And that´s why I get so upset with some posters.

That's the thing the athletes have to be so careful these days and as for Puerta he is a confirmed asthmatic and clembuterol in asthma medications is the most effective way of relieving the symptoms, though it has other effects and if taking the ATP have to be notified.

Like Koubek he wasn't going out of his way to cheat and was punished accordingly.

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 01:53 PM
Well, GWH I just check one of the articles you posted, and saw something I didn´t know. Coria didn´t took the ATP to trial because they didn´t gave him the vitamins.
But he won a trial aganst the lab that sells that vitamins, for its contamination. And it says there that it was an europpean lab.

I didn´t know that

croat123
06-22-2005, 01:53 PM
but isn't it the player's responsibility to make sure the atp knows he is taking a medication that could lead to a positive doping test?

KarstenBraasch#1
06-22-2005, 01:53 PM
but isn't it the player's responsibility to make sure the atp knows he is taking a medication that could lead to a positive doping test?
Yes.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 01:54 PM
Hehe I knew it already 3 years ago. :p http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=25345

Kiefer lover, what is he exactly guilty of?

The stuff that would benefit most Cañas wasn't the one that he allegedly has been taking.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 01:54 PM
but isn't it the player's responsibility to make sure the atp knows he is taking a medication that could lead to a positive doping test?

Hence why Puerta and Koubek got suspended.

Gonzalo81
06-22-2005, 01:55 PM
Hehe I knew it already 3 years ago. :p http://www.wtaworld.com/showthread.php?t=25345

HAHAHA :lol:
I hope you can keep joking after the investigation :)

tennischick
06-22-2005, 02:01 PM
...That's why I believe the WDA should be doing the testing and not the ATP, as they are not affiliated with the organisation and the thing that I find very funny is that the 2 drugs which would benefit most in tennis, there has not been a positive test for either of them.
awesome points GWH. when i first heard the news i also felt "sheesh, not another of my Argie faves". but then i kept reading and the truth is so much less clear than it seems at first glance. i hope Canas clears his name of this. even if there are solid explanations in each case, it doesn't look good for Argentina that so many of its players have been similarly accused.

jazz_girl
06-22-2005, 02:01 PM
Hence why Puerta and Koubek got suspended.
Yeah, and another interesting thing is that the medication Puerta took is now legal... :rolleyes: There's something here I don't like at all...

tennischick
06-22-2005, 02:06 PM
Yeah, and another interesting thing is that the medication Puerta took is now legal... :rolleyes: There's something here I don't like at all...
there needs to be a huge impartial investigation of the whole issue of doping in tennis. including the woman's tour given the bad publicity that Sveta received.

jazz_girl
06-22-2005, 02:07 PM
Svetlana's case was pathetic!

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 02:09 PM
Yeah, and another interesting thing is that the medication Puerta took is now legal... :rolleyes: There's something here I don't like at all...

Interesting. I mean I don't think clembuterol should be legal actually, as it can be very dangerous, but as I said before since someone who is an asthma sufferer and therefore they should be allowed the right to help their breathing patterns, and the medication should be taken, though the ATP should be told about it.

Like I said the 2 main drugs that would help in tennis, no player has tested positive for that is something very surprising.

jazz_girl
06-22-2005, 02:11 PM
Interesting. I mean I don't think clembuterol should be legal actually, as it can be very dangerous, but as I said before since someone who is an asthma sufferer and therefore they should be allowed the right to help their breathing patterns, and the medication should be taken, though the ATP should be told about it.

Like I said the 2 main drugs that would help in tennis, no player has tested positive for that is something very surprising.
Weird...

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 02:13 PM
awesome points GWH. when i first heard the news i also felt "sheesh, not another of my Argie faves". but then i kept reading and the truth is so much less clear than it seems at first glance. i hope Canas clears his name of this. even if there are solid explanations in each case, it doesn't look good for Argentina that so many of its players have been similarly accused.

I am just stating a position about how the tests are conducted. It's better if the WADA do them as they do for other sports, and yes there is more to it.

It can't be only 1 or 2 nations that are involved in doping and as I used the pseudoephidrine example earlier, if I sick and had to play, then I'd have been taking a cough medicine which has pseudoephidrine in it, more than likely a positive test.

I'd like to believe Cañas is innocent, but I am reserving judgement.

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 02:14 PM
Weird...

Do you know which ones I am talking about?

jazz_girl
06-22-2005, 02:15 PM
No, not really...Can you mention them?

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 02:20 PM
No, not really...Can you mention them?

For a guy like Cañas and his game, the best ones for him are EPO and NESP, which are forms of blood doping. That cause of the physical nature of the game and his high endurance levels, so the extra red blood cells that can be gained from these will pump out more oxygen over a longer period of time, say the benefits of training at high altitude wouldn't be needed if taking these substances.

There hasn't been a positive blood test for doping on the ATP, and they have only recently doing blood tests, though this would be of more benefit than the other stuff and a diuretic isn't going to thin the haemoglobin levels that much.

mitalidas
06-22-2005, 02:22 PM
Well I hope Canas is innocent but unless it can be shown that the ATP is unequivocally to blame here (poor testing, own supplements, etc), he should get some sort of punishment, I guess suspsension. Otherwise, this opens the door for other players to intentionally dope

jazz_girl
06-22-2005, 02:23 PM
For a guy like Cañas and his game, the best ones for him are EPO and NESP, which are forms of blood doping. That cause of the physical nature of the game and his high endurance levels, so the extra red blood cells that can be gained from these will pump out more oxygen over a longer period of time, say the benefits of training at high altitude wouldn't be needed if taking these substances.

There hasn't been a positive blood test for doping on the ATP, and they have only recently doing blood tests, though this would be of more benefit than the other stuff and a diuretic isn't going to thin the haemoglobin levels that much.
I'm not sure how this whole thing work, but is it just the ATP in charge of doing the doping tests? Can't there be another one doing the same job with the ATP?

mitalidas
06-22-2005, 02:26 PM
I'm not sure how this whole thing work, but is it just the ATP in charge of doing the doping tests? Can't there be another one doing the same job with the ATP?

well thats precisely hitler's point that like in the olympics a separate institution should oversee testing

this is particularly problematic for the ATP, because they also used to hand out the accepted drugs which were themselves contaminated. like one would think, maybe a first test is to test those drugs instead of the players

Action Jackson
06-22-2005, 02:26 PM
I'm not sure how this whole thing work, but is it just the ATP in charge of doing the doping tests? Can't there be another one doing the same job with the ATP?

Yes, that is what I said earlier it's the ATP that conducts the doping tests and not the WADA as I mentioned earlier, which look after athletics, football, cycling and many other sports. They are an independent organisation.

What I explained where the drugs that would be of most benefit to particular players, especially ones with great fitness levels, recovery powers and the like. There are quite a few of these players and these substances I mentioned, and until recently there wasn't a test to catch these substances.

Plus all the other foibles that the ATP have come up recently with this, is another reason as to why I say this.

mangoes
06-22-2005, 02:43 PM
wowowow..........shocking!!

SwissMister1
06-22-2005, 03:34 PM
Didn't the guy who won the gold medal for Cycling at the last Olympics test positive for enhanced red blood cells? I forget the guys name, dont follow cycling at all.

alexito
06-22-2005, 05:07 PM
ufff coria, puerta, chela, and now canas, this way, soon nalbandian? all players argentina with problem doping.

undomiele
06-22-2005, 05:25 PM
On a positive note, the ATP is neither "confirming or denying" the positive result of the doping test. This might indicate that it is true that only one test out of a series of tests turned out positive and that the atp is investigating the possibility of it being a fluke. Its not official yet. Cañas could just have been freaking out when he issued his statement. He kinda had to explain to ppl here why he's not playing Davis Cup.

Im hopeful.

MariaV
06-22-2005, 05:26 PM
Thanks for the news undomiele.

Denaon
06-22-2005, 06:29 PM
On a positive note, the ATP is neither "confirming or denying" the positive result of the doping test. This might indicate that it is true that only one test out of a series of tests turned out positive and that the atp is investigating the possibility of it being a fluke. Its not official yet. Cañas could just have been freaking out when he issued his statement. He kinda had to explain to ppl here why he's not playing Davis Cup.

Im hopeful.
:bounce: I hope you're right about this :bounce:

Daniel
06-22-2005, 11:54 PM
Pobrecito Guillermo :sad:

quepena que este sucedionle esto :( espero que las cosas se mejoren pronto, yo se que el es inocente y es gente mal intensionada que quieren verlo bajo .

Vamos Guillermo , las cosas se aclararan :D

oneandonlyhsn
06-23-2005, 12:13 AM
John Van Lottum said something about Canas in 2002, many caled him a sore loser before. I wonder if he was right :tape:

Hope they find out for sure this whole did he or didnt he is just nerve wrecking

DanEd
06-23-2005, 12:21 AM
you missed Martin Rodriguez ;)
ufff coria, puerta, chela, and now canas, this way, soon nalbandian? all players argentina with problem doping.

DanEd
06-23-2005, 12:24 AM
John Van Lottum,Vladimir Voltchkov, and Kristof Vliegen= the sore loser trio

Daniel
06-23-2005, 01:25 AM
John Van Lottum,Vladimir Voltchkov, and Kristof Vliegen= the sore loser trio

I never heard of those 3 :o

Leo
06-23-2005, 03:07 AM
don't judge and jump into conclusions or I'll think you're just as dumb as some posters think you are

You jumped to the conclusion that he was innocent by saying "poor Willy :sad:". Neither is really justified.

DanEd
06-23-2005, 03:08 AM
I said that, not him
You jumped to the conclusion that he was innocent by saying "poor Willy :sad:". Neither is really justified.

Scotso
06-23-2005, 03:08 AM
You jumped to the conclusion that he was innocent by saying "poor Willy :sad:". Neither is really justified.

:stalk:

Leo
06-23-2005, 03:10 AM
John Van Lottum,Vladimir Voltchkov, and Kristof Vliegen= the sore loser trio

What did Vliegen say?

Leo
06-23-2005, 03:11 AM
:stalk:

Stop, or I may just have to fall in love with you.

Scotso
06-23-2005, 03:12 AM
Stop, or I may just have to fall in love with you.

I'll have to step up my efforts, then, won't I? :hearts: :drool:

Leo
06-23-2005, 03:13 AM
I said that, not him

Ooops, my bad. I think you both have the Argentinian flag and your names start with D, so yeah.

Perhaps he really is a victim in this scenario - I'd like to think he's innocent - but there's not enough evidence either way yet for me to form an opinion. We'll just have to see how the ATP responds.

DanEd
06-23-2005, 03:14 AM
exactly, you are right
Ooops, my bad. I think you both have the Argentinian flag and your names start with D, so yeah.

Perhaps he really is a victim in this scenario - I'd like to think he's innocent - but there's not enough evidence either way yet for me to form an opinion. We'll just have to see how the ATP responds.

Scotso
06-23-2005, 03:15 AM
We need to strip him and examine his balls... then we'll know.

Denaon
06-23-2005, 03:16 AM
You jumped to the conclusion that he was innocent by saying "poor Willy :sad:". Neither is really justified.
:rolleyes: Ok, if you say so :rolleyes: However , I said nothing about him being innocent and I asked RDucky not to judge so easily. He stated Cañas was a cheater.

Daniel
06-23-2005, 03:16 AM
Canas's balls?? :eek: :drool: :lick:

Leo
06-23-2005, 03:19 AM
:rolleyes: Ok, if you say so :rolleyes: However , I said nothing about him being innocent and I asked RDucky not to judge so easily. He stated Cañas was a cheater.

It was my mistake, I was actually referring to someone else's post. DanEd pointed that out to me. Sorry!

Scotso
06-23-2005, 03:19 AM
We've already seen Puerta's :haha:

Leo
06-23-2005, 03:20 AM
I'll have to step up my efforts, then, won't I? :hearts: :drool:

I'm not discouraging it. :cool:

MeluG
06-23-2005, 04:25 AM
If Argentina has a problem with having over the counter medications that are tainted with other drugs, the Argentine players shouldn't be buying medications in South America.

You can't be more wrong, cause most medicines sold in Argentina come from Europe or the US. There's a system of controlling all medicines in the market here, Argentina is not an abandoned colony of Africa in the 40s. And take into account that argentine players do live most of the year abroad, so medicines can be bought there too.

MeluG
06-23-2005, 04:33 AM
Originally Posted by croat123
but isn't it the player's responsibility to make sure the atp knows he is taking a medication that could lead to a positive doping test?

I agree with you but Cañas said he took NOTHING looking at his medical records. So it is suspicious from ATP that they spread this news when Cañas reaches his top ten position, and from a test that was taken 4 months ago. How do we know that aTP did not manipulate this sample? Here is where I agree with GWH, a third independent party should at least evaluate a sample as well. It may be a complot against Argentina and its players. I would not rule that out.

Just take into consideration the suspension given to Rusedski and the one to Coria, both cases involved contaminated vitamines given by the ATP and they tested positive for the same chemical. Obviously, ATP was harder with Coria...but why? No explanation.

Maybe Coria & Cañas do not sell as much as a Safin, Federer or Roddick...Who's next? Nalbandian?

Peoples
06-23-2005, 08:44 AM
Well, what are they waiting for? Ban his ass! He's Argentine, what more further proof could there be. They should test those others some more too, like Coria who's a well-known dope addict.

Action Jackson
06-23-2005, 09:03 AM
Didn't the guy who won the gold medal for Cycling at the last Olympics test positive for enhanced red blood cells? I forget the guys name, dont follow cycling at all.

I meant there hasn't been a positive test for EPO or NESP in tennis, when those substances would be the most beneficial.

Action Jackson
06-23-2005, 09:12 AM
Yes, no more news except that I heard that Canas asked the tournament director for a something to clear up a cold, and that was provided and the pseudoephidrine example I used earlier, as cold medicines do contain things on the banned list.

As I said earlier, if a player is going to be cheating, they are not going to take anything during the week of a tournament that is just stupid.

joeb_uk
06-23-2005, 10:31 AM
I meant there hasn't been a positive test for EPO or NESP in tennis, when those substances would be the most beneficial.
Very true, although do you think the players are maybed scared of the side effects of taking these substances (i dont know myself why players havent tryed these substances, the only reason i can think of is the risk of death lol).

Action Jackson
06-23-2005, 10:40 AM
Very true, although do you think the players are maybed scared of the side effects of taking these substances (i dont know myself why players havent tryed these substances, the only reason i can think of is the risk of death lol).

I don't doubt that some players could be taking EPO or NESP and before they couldn't get caught as they hadn't had a test for it, just like HGH which is not detectable at all. The thing is that just cause no one has been caught, doesn't mean it's happening.

Something that if managed the right amount helps pump out more red blood cells for a longer period of time and the recovery time is very quick isn't of benefit in tennis, I don't think so. There are side effects to everything and also they would have to test and deem what is an unacceptable level of haemoglobin in the system, as long as they manage their hydration levels then that can help some of the effects.

joeb_uk
06-23-2005, 10:45 AM
I don't doubt that some players could be taking EPO or NESP and before they couldn't get caught as they hadn't had a test for it, just like HGH which is not detectable at all. The thing is that just cause no one has been caught, doesn't mean it's happening.

Something that if managed the right amount helps pump out more red blood cells for a longer period of time and the recovery time is very quick isn't of benefit in tennis, I don't think so. There are side effects to everything and also they would have to test and deem what is an unacceptable level of haemoglobin in the system, as long as they manage their hydration levels then that can help some of the effects.
hmmmm when did the test come into play for Hematocrit? Is it a fairly new test?

Action Jackson
06-23-2005, 10:48 AM
hmmmm when did the test come into play for Hematocrit? Is it a fairly new test?

The NESP test was in the Winter Olympics and there were a few cross country skiiers caught and the whole Finnish team got done at the World Champs for it.
I mean there is only so much red meat someone can eat to get those elevated levels of haemoglobin.

mitalidas
06-23-2005, 11:57 AM
I agree with you but Cañas said he took NOTHING looking at his medical records. So it is suspicious from ATP that they spread this news when Cañas reaches his top ten position, and from a test that was taken 4 months ago.

to be fair all accused tennis pros when failing a dope test have said they never took anything, or never took anything knowingly.

While I dont condone the ATP's strange tactics, a less charitable view opposite to what you are saying is that a doped player may have reached the Top 10 positions because of the dope, and then naturally fail a dope test. Not that the ATP goes after the Top 10. This was john van lottums point

MeluG
06-23-2005, 03:25 PM
what you are saying is that a doped player may have reached the Top 10 positions because of the dope,

No, I never said that. You are inventing that yourself.
All I said was that it calls my attention the fact that if this is a supposed positive sample from february, why do they start a case now and not when it happened? It is suspicious that they do this to Cañas when he is finally top 10 and not way before.

mitalidas
06-23-2005, 05:47 PM
No, I never said that. You are inventing that yourself.
All I said was that it calls my attention the fact that if this is a supposed positive sample from february, why do they start a case now and not when it happened? It is suspicious that they do this to Cañas when he is finally top 10 and not way before.

hey, you chopped off part of my statement and then say I am inventing it myself :rolleyes:

The full sentence read "A less charitable view opposite to that what you are saying is that a a doped player may have reached the Top 10 positions because of the dope, and then naturally fail a dope test."

Lopped off by you to " . ..... what you are saying is that a a doped player may have reached the Top 10 positions because of the dope, and then naturally fail a dope test."

Clever but fraudulent!

So stop inventing what I said
Cheers

Space Cowgirl
06-23-2005, 08:26 PM
why the hell can't the ATP hand over doping tests to WADA?
And sorry, but the "I'm an asthmatic" excuse is overused IMO. What are the athletes supposed to take, seeing as they are tested so often? Doping control in tennis is way too lax

Marine
06-24-2005, 05:39 PM
Poor argentinians, they're really not lucky !!!! Always controled positive, and never doped.... :rolleyes:

undomiele
06-24-2005, 06:01 PM
Poor argentinians, they're really not lucky !!!! Always controled positive, and never doped.... :rolleyes:

Or it could just be that other countries doing it on purpose know how to mask it better.

One uninvestigated, unconfirmed test that could be a fluke and suddenly everyone is a judge.

Rusedski till proven guilty.

Julio1974
06-24-2005, 06:24 PM
Or it could just be that other countries doing it on purpose know how to mask it better.

One uninvestigated, unconfirmed test that could be a fluke and suddenly everyone is a judge.

Rusedski till proven guilty.

Don't even bother to respond to this kind of people. They are just too stupid

Denaon
06-24-2005, 06:29 PM
Don't even bother to respond to this kind of people. They are just too stupid
I had that exact thought "a palabras necias oídos sordos"

*Ljubica*
06-24-2005, 06:34 PM
No, I never said that. You are inventing that yourself.
All I said was that it calls my attention the fact that if this is a supposed positive sample from february, why do they start a case now and not when it happened? It is suspicious that they do this to Cañas when he is finally top 10 and not way before.

I think you'll find they did start their investigations in February, but it has only just come out into the open - mainly because stupid journalists sniffed a "good story" and couldn't keep their mouths shut :devil: The cases against Chela and Koubek all took about 6 months between the "incident" and the hearing taking place. Rusedski's would have followed the same time scale if the Press hadn't got hold of the story and "forced" Rusedski to talk about the case before it was official to try and quell the rumours and clear his name. I have no idea why the ATP take so long investigating these types of cases, but loads of legal cases take ages to investigate and prepare so I guess this is no different.

Marine
06-24-2005, 06:36 PM
"Trying thinking before you speak. Puerta was asthmatic, Coria took contaminated vitamins, and the Atp hasnt said shit about Canas. It could have been a fluke."

So many sportmen (controled positive) are asthmatic that's a terrible combination of circumstances :awww:
Same thing in cycling. :rolleyes:
Who's the next victim of these errors ? Nalbandian ? Gaudio ?

DanEd
06-24-2005, 06:40 PM
Me :)


Who's the next victim of these errors ? Nalbandian ? Gaudio ?

Denaon
06-24-2005, 06:44 PM
Me :)
no, I'm gonna be next ;)

Julio1974
06-24-2005, 06:44 PM
"Trying thinking before you speak. Puerta was asthmatic, Coria took contaminated vitamins, and the Atp hasnt said shit about Canas. It could have been a fluke."

So many sportmen (controled positive) are asthmatic that's a terrible combination of circumstances :awww:
Same thing in cycling. :rolleyes:
Who's the next victim of these errors ? Nalbandian ? Gaudio ?

If European labs don't know how to prepare drugs, that's not a problem of Coria. I remind you that he has filed a lawsuit against the laboratory.

Why don't you go to test Mauresmo instead of wirting nosense?

Denaon
06-24-2005, 06:46 PM
If European labs don't know how to prepare drugs, that's not a problem of Coria. I remind you that he has filed a lawsuit against the laboratory.

Why don't you go to test Mauresmo instead of wirting nosense?
:lol: Are we connected???? I like her though :lol:
I mean I thought about french players and Mauresmo came to my mind, male players? :shrug:

DanEd
06-24-2005, 06:48 PM
The laboratory was american, not european
If European labs don't know how to prepare drugs, that's not a problem of Coria. I remind you that he has filed a lawsuit against the laboratory.

Why don't you go to test Mauresmo instead of wirting nosense?

Julio1974
06-24-2005, 06:52 PM
The laboratory was american, not european

I don't have anything against Mauresmo. I just hate when some people begins to point fingers as if the rest of the world is free of doping.

Marine
06-24-2005, 07:05 PM
:lol: Are we connected???? I like her though :lol:
I mean I thought about french players and Mauresmo came to my mind, male players? :shrug:

All french sportmen have a longitudinal follow-up, they're controled outside of the competitions by the french sport federation, it's very strict. Creatine is forbiden, that's not the case in several other countries.

mitalidas
06-24-2005, 07:07 PM
:lol: I mean I thought about french players and Mauresmo came to my mind, male players? :shrug:

why would you think Mauresmo takes dope any more than any other woman player?!

jazz_girl
06-24-2005, 07:09 PM
no, I'm gonna be next ;)
No way, that's gonna be me: I'm asthmatic!

Julio1974
06-24-2005, 07:11 PM
All french sportmen have a longitudinal follow-up, they're controled outside of the competitions etc, it's very strict. Creatine is forbiden, that's not the case in several other countries.

I can imagine those strict controls especially at the Tour of France...

DanEd
06-24-2005, 07:12 PM
i am asthmatic too ;)
No way, that's gonna be me: I'm asthmatic!

Marine
06-24-2005, 07:13 PM
I can imagine those strict controls especially at the Tour of France...

This follow-up exists because of cycling, more exactly. Since Virenque's affair. :)

Julio1974
06-24-2005, 07:13 PM
Just a few examples for you Marine..

L'Express du 07/11/2002
Le blues des escrimeurs français

par Paul Miquel

Avec deux champions accusés de dopage, le moral de l'équipe nationale est au plus bas


Novembre 2001: la France termine les championnats du monde, à Nîmes, avec deux médailles d'or, trois d'argent et cinq de bronze. La plus belle razzia de son histoire. Un an plus tard, après deux contrôles antidopage positifs, l'escrime tricolore est au fond du trou. En l'espace de douze mois, le prestige de la France en a pris un sérieux coup. La crise commence le 16 août dernier: ce jour-là, l'annonce du contrôle positif de Laura Flessel à la Coramine glucose fait l'effet d'une bombe. Le produit incriminé lui a été prescrit par un kinésithérapeute vacataire, David Soulier. Celui-ci ignore qu'il est sur la liste des substances bannies.

«Victime d'une guerre politique»

La double championne olympique, symbole mondial d'excellence et de probité, crie son innocence. En vain. Le tribunal disciplinaire de la Fédération internationale d'escrime (FIE) vient de la condamner à trois mois de suspension. «Je vais faire appel de cette décision auprès du tribunal arbitral du sport, affirme la championne, dont la réputation est ternie. J'ai vraiment l'impression d'être victime d'une guerre politique.» Ce n'est pas la première fois que René Roch, le président, français, de la FIE, qui a décidé seul de la sanction, s'oppose aux escrimeurs de l'Hexagone.


Un autre scandale éclatait presque au même moment. Loïc Attelly, vice-champion du monde 2001 de fleuret, est contrôlé positif à la nandrolone le 16 juin, au Venezuela. L'analyse de l'échantillon A, effectuée dans un laboratoire de Caracas non accrédité par la FIE, révèle une anomalie. Ce flacon est alors transféré vers un labo de Buenos Aires qui décèle une concentration de nandrolone supérieure à la limite autorisée. Cocasserie: le laboratoire argentin n'est pas homologué non plus. La procédure est donc entachée de nullité, mais, fin octobre, l'analyse de l'échantillon B au laboratoire de Châtenay-Malabry (Hauts-de-Seine) confirme la positivité du fleurettiste français. «Ces deux affaires de dopage sont catastrophiques pour nous, explique Philippe Omnès, directeur technique national de la Fédération française. Tous nos escrimeurs sont désormais exposés aux soupçons.» A deux ans des Jeux d'Athènes, l'honneur des escrimeurs français est salement écorné.

Marine
06-24-2005, 07:15 PM
I don't excuse them.

DanEd
06-24-2005, 07:18 PM
here another article: http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2004/s1137029.htm

Marine
06-24-2005, 07:20 PM
wow, great job ! You've been to google to search all french doping cases, congrats :clap2: :lol:

Julio1974
06-24-2005, 07:23 PM
It seems we did a better research than you did... You don't even know whether Cañas is guily or not but you are already pointing fingers. You have never read a line about the Coria's case but even though you make a judgement. You'd better do some research sometimes. It might be useful.

DanEd
06-24-2005, 07:25 PM
i only posted one but there are hundred of them in google ;)

Denaon
06-24-2005, 07:29 PM
why would you think Mauresmo takes dope any more than any other woman player?!
That's a very good point, I did not say that, but in any case she's just a suspect as everybody else.
If Cañas is guilty of doping and made it on purpose, then that means every single f*cking player inside TOP 200 are doing the same thing for sure. Cause Willy is not the type of guy into cheating, period.

Neely
06-24-2005, 07:41 PM
Cause Willy is not the type of guy into cheating, period.
Sure, you are convinced of your players, I can't blame you for thinking so. If I were you I would say the same if it was about that Schüttler should have doped because I couldn't believe that either, no matter what happened in the past with other German doping cases when everybody else at the same time would say the German players are only dopers.

Denaon
06-24-2005, 07:52 PM
Sure, you are convinced of your players, I can't blame you for thinking so. If I were you I would say the same if it was about that Schüttler should have doped because I couldn't believe that either, no matter what happened in the past with other German doping cases when everybody else at the same time would say the German players are only dopers.
I'm mad at ppl pointing fingers and judging.
Does any of us, really know who's on drugs and who's not?
Do we have to believe that ATP is a :angel: charitable organization, caring with love foundation??? Money or other interests don't count at all?? Or only players are evil :devil: and sinful???
Give me a break!!!
Wake up ppl!

Denaon
06-24-2005, 07:55 PM
President and Vicepresident of ATP
http://www.otoons.com/politics/images/mother_teresa_pope.jpg

Lee
06-24-2005, 07:57 PM
President and Vicepresident of ATP

Don't you think it's a bit scary as both are deceased? ;)

Denaon
06-24-2005, 07:59 PM
Don't you think it's a bit scary as both are deceased? ;)
:lol: I haven't noticed that when I posted the pic :lol:

Lee
06-24-2005, 08:09 PM
:lol: I haven't noticed that when I posted the pic :lol:


;) Long live Mother Teresa and Pope John Paul II.

Action Jackson
06-26-2005, 01:29 PM
President and Vicepresident of ATP
http://www.otoons.com/politics/images/mother_teresa_pope.jpg

:haha:

jazz_girl
06-26-2005, 04:36 PM
http://sport.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2005/06/26/stdrug26.xml&sSheet=/sport/2005/06/26/ixtenn.html
ATP order samples to be re-tested
The Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) want to re-examine players' urine samples based on new scientific evidence. The announcement came in the same week that No 7 seed Guillermo Canas of Argentina, who had withdrawn from Wimbledon with a wrist injury, admitted that he had failed a drugs test.

England's Greg Rusedski was among eight players who tested positive for the anabolic steroid nandrolone in 2002 and 2003. They were cleared when it appeared that contaminated supplements, provided by the ATP's own trainers, had produced the positive tests. The theory was later discredited, leaving the ATP searching for an explanation. Now, there may be one.

Last month The Sunday Telegraph reported that the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) were modifying their test procedure for nandrolone. The change was prompted by the discovery that nandrolone metabolites can form independently in urine when a highly concentrated sample is kept for several hours at 37C or higher.

The chemical reaction, described as "unstable" or "active" urine, was first noticed by a WADA laboratory in Kreischa, Germany, in 2002, and subsequently confirmed by labs in Montreal, Canada, and Cologne, Germany.

Christiane Ayotte, director of the Montreal laboratory, said that a test to determine the source of the nandrolone had recently been developed. "It's now under full control," said Ayotte. "We know what the results look like when it is produced in the bottle."

As a result, WADA circulated a memo to labs last month directing that "stability tests" be conducted for all potentially unstable samples containing between two and 10 nanograms of nandrolone per millilitre. Ayotte, whose lab was responsible for processing many of the tennis samples in 2002 and 2003, believes the ATP's move is justified.

"I don't see how we could not re-test the samples if they are still available," she said. "It may be that all the tennis cases, or at least half of them, are due to this phenomenon."

Contaminated supplements were believed to be behind a spate of urine samples showing low levels of nandrolone between August 2002 and May 2003.

The theory was bolstered by the existence of a common analytical fingerprint in many of the samples, which suggested that the nandrolone was coming from the same source. But similar results, including Rusedski's positive test at Indianapolis in July 2003, continued to appear long after the supplements were pulled.

Since then, the real cause has remained a mystery. Could the new test solve the puzzle?

"This is an interesting question, because at the same time the Germans were finding this, we were also working on the ATP samples," said Ayotte. "So my belief personally, is that some of them were due to doping, and some of them were due totally or partly to that phenomenon."

Frédéric Donzé, manager of media relations at WADA, stressed that unstable urine occurs in about one out of 1,000 samples. "And when we're talking about 1,000, we are talking about 1,000 cases where the count is between 2 ng and 10 ng," he said. "To put that in better perspective, last year there were 330 samples containing nandrolone and in 2003, 250. Some of those were not in the range mentioned."

According to Ayotte, the culprit may be a legal product that inadvertently promotes the creation of unstable urine.

ys
06-26-2005, 04:43 PM
If this turns out to be true.. there will be a lot of lawsuits from effected professionals, like Peter Korda..

Jogy
06-26-2005, 08:14 PM
all the pooooor ppoooooor Argentina players like Chela, Coria, Puerta.... always positive testings and they are all not guilty or only took medicine.... ohhhhhhh :sad: and no Canas is in spotlight with another positive testing ... what a bad luck for them that they have so many cases in last years while other countrys have none in tennis

LefandePatty
06-28-2005, 05:29 PM
Why did you do that, Guillermo??? :sad: :sad: :sad: :bigcry:

undomiele
06-28-2005, 05:54 PM
Why did you do that, Guillermo??? :sad: :sad: :sad: :bigcry:

Easy. He didn't. :rolleyes:

smucav
07-04-2005, 06:37 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jon_wertheim/07/04/wimbledon.50/index.html33. We got a fair amount of mail this week about Guillermo Canas allegedly failing a drug test -- the fourth Argentine, for those of you scoring at home. Quite frankly, this was the worst-kept secret in tennis. The news reminded me of this exchange from 2002 after Canas outlasted the super-fit Hewitt at the French Open, a win that raised some eyebrows in the press room:

Q: Canas is able to play four hours and 28 minutes one day, four hours and 13 minutes today, is he Superman or what?

Hewitt: He's pretty strong. You know, there's times where -- I've said this in the past -- where you think he's looking a bit tired, but then he bounces back pretty well.

binkygirl
07-05-2005, 01:31 AM
Canas will be cleared. I hope he sues the pants off the ATP.