Every Wimbledon champion reached at least RG quarters. What about RG champs? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Every Wimbledon champion reached at least RG quarters. What about RG champs?

ys
06-21-2005, 04:34 AM
Bruguera? Muster? Moya? Costa? Gaudio?

Talk about skills and versatility.

Rosa Luxembourg
06-21-2005, 04:58 AM
Every starting since when? Also, it looks like there were a lot more RG winners than Wimbledon winners. Wimbledon was privatised by different players at times.

BAMJ6
06-21-2005, 05:02 AM
Agassi was the last RG winner since Borg in 1981 to make the Wimby final in his 1999 comeback

Castafiore
06-21-2005, 07:36 AM
Bruguera? Muster? Moya? Costa? Gaudio?

Talk about skills and versatility.
Wimbledon champs have more time and more occassion to adapt to the clay surface than the other way round. No?


Puerta, for example, had very little experience on grass this year and he needed a break between RG and Wimbledon. I'm not surprised that he didn't make the first round.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Nadal lose against Spadea because he has the same problem: little occassion to prepare himself for the grass surface but I hope that he can adapt his game - if not this year, than in the following years because he's a lot of fun to watch on the court.

hitchhiker
06-21-2005, 07:53 AM
Puerta loses 6-1 6-1 6-3 to definition of tennis supremacy burgsmuller.
wouldnt get better entertainment if you set up a circus

oneandonlyhsn
06-21-2005, 08:01 AM
Borg was a in a different class, he won 6 FO and 5 Wimby titles. Now thats awesome, unfortunately a lot of the current RG chamipons havent performed well on other surfaces, hopefully Nadal will break that trend.

Chloe le Bopper
06-21-2005, 08:04 AM
Some recent RG champs have performed very well on other surfaces. Ferrero and Kuerten come to mind. Moya too, if we consider 1997 recent.

World Beater
06-21-2005, 08:07 AM
kuerten beat sampras, and agassi consecutively indoors. One of the most underrated feats imo

Neely
06-21-2005, 08:10 AM
Bruguera? Muster? Moya? Costa? Gaudio?

Talk about skills and versatility.
I don't know how many of the Wimbledon Champions really at least made the RG quarters. But the last 20 or 30 years, with the exception being Cash, should be safe.

out of this list, Moya certainly has my respect for the play on grass...
But Muster, Costa, Gaudio on grass? :lol:
there's hardly a better joke than these three guys on this specific surface...

Muster was a slouch on grass, but at least he played four or five tournaments on grass other than Wimbledon and he made the Queen's semifinal. To his credit, he plays now quite acceptably and he is giving good guys good matches on grass. That shows that he could have done a lot better if, yes if he wanted to prepare and respect the surface.

Bruguera had one good run at Wimbledon, a fourth round that was it. Harldy showed up.

Gaudio has something like five or six matches on grass, with the only win coming from one 2nd round in Wimbledon beating a fellow Argentine in person of Juan-Pablo Guzman who managed to qualify that year but who has meanwhile to play qualies for Challengers.

Props to Gomez, in one of his few appearances he actually made the Wimbledon quarterfinal.

And lots of other RG Champs also did considerably well.


Overall, a few results how some RG Champs are faring on grass can be really scathing and there's a HUGE lack concerning the attitude of some of these players towards grass court tennis and preparing for this surface properly which finally often results in helplessness on the surface.

Chloe le Bopper
06-21-2005, 08:35 AM
Wimbledon champs have more time and more occassion to adapt to the clay surface than the other way round. No?


Ding ding. YS is just trolling as always, but some people will only be happy if the clay players sacrifice their results on clay to improve on grass - since the schedule doesnt' comply, it's really one of the few options.

How the Hell does one have tiem to "respect" a surface and train for it properly when they were training for another slam two weeks ago?

Neely
06-21-2005, 08:44 AM
Talk about skills and versatility.
I believe lots of them would have the needed skills and verstility to get acceptable results on grass, no question! Actually you can succeed with lots of more onesidedness, less skills ans versatility on grass than on clay. For most it's a displayed lack and a mixture of some components such as practice on grass, attitude, preparation and tactical comprehension.

For Puerta yesterday for example, I think a few exhibition matches the weekend before would have been already enough to do better. But as he came to the conclusion how to hit winners with flat strokes instead of trying to outrally Burgsmüller from the basline and trying to put pressure on him with his heavy topspin strokes, he was already down two sets.

Castafiore
06-21-2005, 08:44 AM
Ding ding. YS is just trolling as always, but some people will only be happy if the clay players sacrifice their results on clay to improve on grass - since the schedule doesnt' comply, it's really one of the few options.


That was me you're quoting and on my very first post. Wow.
I'm not trolling, honest.
I love to see tennis on clay but my point is that I don't think it's a fair comparison between the Wimbledon champs and the RG champs.

The typical clay tennis players are fun to watch and I don't see any reason to diminish their skills on their surface and to try and prove that the grass players are more flexible (I'm not sure if anybody is implying that but I'm just saying...) because I just don't agree.
The fact is that it's easier for a grass player to adapt to the clay surface because of the season: the grass season is short and Wimbledon follows RG by only two weeks.


How the Hell does one have tiem to "respect" a surface and train for it properly when they were training for another slam two weeks ago
Exactly my point!


PS: maybe a stupid question but...what's "YS"

Neely
06-21-2005, 08:53 AM
I love to see tennis on clay but my point is that I don't think it's a fair comparison between the Wimbledon champs and the RG champs.
I agree, it's not completely fair, especially not for those who go far into the 2nd week at Roland Garros. For Roland Garros, there's lots of more time left to prepare of course.

And as I said earlier, I didn't blame Gaudio for skipping Wimbledon last year after he won the French Open. Lots of things happened and lots of things changed suddenly in his life and I'm sure he was requested for thousands of interviews and stuff like that and he needed just a bit of time for himself I guess. But there are also other examples like Nadal who actually want to play on grass and every surface. And not to forget about Chang, he was small, he didn't have the killer strokes and he didn't have a huge 220 km/h serve. But he won RG and showed up for Wimbledon a few weeks later and made the fourth round there, which was meant to be not the only good and respectable Wimbledon performance of him at the end of his career.

Castafiore
06-21-2005, 09:14 AM
Also, suppose Wimbledon and RG switched places and the Wimbledon champ would only have 2 weeks to prepare for this different surface with only a very short clay season to prepare yourself.

Does anybody really think that this transition would be easy? I could see a lot of Wimbledon champs go out very fast in RG in that case and many players would probably not even bother showing up.

I'm hoping that Nadal can at least prove to some of the doubters that he can once become a great grass player but don't expect too much from the guy. Last year, he wanted to play Wimbledon but couldn't because of an injury. As a result, he has very little experience on the surface but at least, he's showing the willingness to try and do well on grass.
I think that it took even the great Bjorn Borg some time to adapt to grass.

Action Jackson
06-21-2005, 09:17 AM
Reverse the seasons and see what happens.

Neely
06-21-2005, 09:30 AM
I think that it took even the great Bjorn Borg some time to adapt to grass.
Borg was certainly incredibly outstanding in his ability to adapt to these two very different surfaces within just one month as he won those RG and Wimbledon Slams back-to-back for years.

NYCtennisfan
06-21-2005, 09:44 AM
I don't know how many of the Wimbledon Champions really at least made the RG quarters. But the last 20 or 30 years, with the exception being Cash, should be safe.

out of this list, Moya certainly has my respect for the play on grass...
But Muster, Costa, Gaudio on grass?
there's hardly a better joke than these three guys on this specific surface...

Muster was a slouch on grass, but at least he played four or five tournaments on grass other than Wimbledon and he made the Queen's semifinal. To his credit, he plays now quite acceptably and he is giving good guys good matches on grass. That shows that he could have done a lot better if, yes if he wanted to prepare and respect the surface.

Good post Neely.

jtipson
06-21-2005, 09:54 AM
Agassi was the last RG winner since Borg in 1981 to make the Wimby final in his 1999 comeback

Lendl (twice) and Courier have both done that.

NYCtennisfan
06-21-2005, 10:59 AM
Reverse the seasons and see what happens.

Not much really because the few champs that have reigned at Wimbledon since 1976, 13 of them in 29 years, really had enough raw talent to probably pull of a decent run at RG anyway.

Look at McEnroe. How many European clay events outside of RG did he even play in his entire career? Not too many but he still did relatively well at RG because of his raw talent. Since Borg you have:

McEnroe F (made it to #1 and won multiple other majors)
Connors multiple SF (made it to #1 and won multiple other majors)
Becker multiple SF (made it to #1 and won multiple other majors)
Cash 4th round
Edberg F (made it to #1 and won multiple other majors)
Stich SF (made it to #2)
Agassi W (made it to #1 and won all other majors)
Pete SF (made it to #1 and won multiple other majors)
Goran Sf (made it to #2)
Krajicek QF (made it to #4)
Hewitt QF (has made it to #1 and won another major)
Federer SF (has made it to #1 and won multiple other majors).

That's a lot of raw talent in that group there, and the ones not endowed with great raw talent obviously have made up for it in a variety of ways. All of them were at least #2 in their careers at one point except for Cash and Krajicek who were 4 at one point. Cash is the only one that didn't make the QF and he made the 4th round in 88 I think losing to Chesnokov, but Cash truly sucked on clay with like 10 total wins on clay total in his career or something like that.

You have one winner at RG, 2 others who made the finals, and 6 others who made the SF's.

Meanwhile, the RG champs haven't done that poorly at Wimbledon at all. Since Borg you have:

Wilander who made two QF's (made it to #1 and won majors other than the French)
Noah (made it to #3)
Lendl who had a great amount of success at W (made it to #1 and won other majors)
Chang who got to the quarters before being mauled by Sampras (made it to #2)
Gomez who was hopeless on grass but did make it to the QF in 84 (made it to #4)
Courier who made it to the final (made it to #1 and has won other majors)
Bruguera who didn't try that much but did get to the 4th round in 94 (made it to #3)
Muster (made it to #1)
Kafelnikov got to the QF in '95 (made it to #1 has won another major)
Guga got to the quarters before meeting Agassi (made it to #1)
Moya played well for the first time last year got to the 4th round (has made it to #1)
Agassi W (made it to #1 and has won all the majors)
Costa (made it to #6)
Ferrero has not played poorly at W but has never made the 4th round (made it to #1)
Gaudio (has made it to #5)
Nadal. (has made it to #3)

RG has obviously had more champions so they all can't be as highly ranked. You have 1 winner, 2 others who got to the finals and some QF's.

Wimbledon champs have done better at RG and I believe would have the same success even if the seasons were switched. I do think the RG champs would have slightly more success at Wimby if the seasons were switched.

TheMightyFed
06-21-2005, 11:15 AM
I think Wilander reached the semis of Wimby in 1988...

Castafiore
06-21-2005, 11:27 AM
Well, I still think it's not fair to compare the two surfaces and why do so? I'm guessing that people do this to prove a certain point. There's a snobbish reaction against clay court tennis by some people and I don't quite understand why.
I love clay court tennis and I prefer it to grass (but I enjoy tennis on all surfaces really).

The grass season is very short in comparison to the clay court season. So, the clay experts have more opportunities to play on their surface all year long, so they feel less inclined to adapt perhaps? It's not really a measure to determine which sort of player has the most potential in my opinion.
It's fun to see a grass player try to play on clay but the other way round is also fun. I agree, however, that it would be even more fun if more clay experts would try to adapt to the grass surface.

jtipson
06-21-2005, 12:13 PM
I think Wilander reached the semis of Wimby in 1988...

Quarters against Mecir iirc.

Nimomunz
06-21-2005, 01:01 PM
its due to the length of the clay season that people can be claycourters and still be seen in the rankings...........if someone was a grass courter only, thru and thru, he would be a blip on the radar screen!!

ys
06-21-2005, 02:53 PM
kuerten beat sampras, and agassi consecutively indoors. One of the most underrated feats imo

It does not really count. For him it was #1 on the line. For them it was like .. exhibition. Different level of motivation. Similar to 1999 when Sampras made it to semis, clinched yearend #1, then tanked to a Spaniard. Besides, Sampras didn't want Safin to end year as #1.

ys
06-21-2005, 03:09 PM
Some recent RG champs have performed very well on other surfaces. Ferrero and Kuerten come to mind. Moya too, if we consider 1997 recent.

Only Kuerten reached the quarters, courtesy of a very special draw.

As opposite, Sampras, Krajicek, Federer all made semis. Stich made finals. Hewitt made quarters. Even Ivanisevic, who was branded by clay-lovers as serve-only player, made it to quarters. Many other prominent grasscourters - say Rafter and Henman - made it to RG semis. The way claycourters perform at Wimbledon is beyond pathetic.

ys
06-21-2005, 03:14 PM
Sorry for nitpicking, but it effects your stats, so..


Stich SF (made it to #2)


1996 finalist


Krajicek QF (made it to #4)


semis in 1993

You have one winner at RG, 2 others who made the finals, and 6 others who made the SF's.


three finalists this way.

NYCtennisfan
06-21-2005, 05:59 PM
HOw could I forget about Stich in 1996 with his win over Muster and a close loss to Kafelnikov (slaps himself)? Overall an interesting comparison with Wimby winners doing better but of course with a more limited amount of winners to compare.

ys
06-21-2005, 06:06 PM
HOw could I forget about Stich in 1996 with his win over Muster and a close loss to Kafelnikov (slaps himself)?

It was not that close. Every set was close. The whole match wasn't.


Overall an interesting comparison with Wimby winners doing better but of course with a more limited amount of winners to compare.

My understanding that a major difference is ... game.. Chipping and charging is still a good value on clay. Good serving still earns some points of backed up by solid forehands. No one gives a f@ck about topspin junk on grass, especially given that it is not that easy to do with those severe western grips which all those one-trick-ponies have.