Dirtballers pulling out of Wimbledon [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Dirtballers pulling out of Wimbledon

tangerine_dream
06-10-2005, 06:10 PM
Moya, Guga, now Gaudio. Who's next? Grass isn't REAL tennis anyway, right? :baby: :baby: :baby:

At least Marat "I hate this, I give up on Wimbledon" Safin and Rafa will make a go of it. :yeah:

French Open champs have a shot at Wimbledon

Fresh off their victories at the French Open, Rafael Nadal and Justine Henin-Hardenne are poised to make strong showings at Wimbledon, which runs June 20 to July 3, experts say.

Nadal, the 19-year-old Spaniard, has a good chance to advance deep into the second week, and Henin-Hardenne, the 23-year-old Belgian, is a top favorite to win the world's most prestigious tennis tournament.

"Henin-Hardenne and Nadal winning the French was the best thing that can happen for tennis," said Mats Wilander, who won seven Grand Slam tournaments himself in the 1980s. "Henin-Hardenne plays proper, control tennis," he said, unlike many of the big-hitting women. "And Nadal comes with his game face, saying 'Come and beat me if you can.'"

Nadal's baseline game, with a loopy forehand and extreme grip changes, isn't a natural for the grass courts in London. But he advanced to the third round of Wimbledon in 2003 at the age of 17, becoming the youngest male to do so since Boris Becker 19 years earlier.

"Ten years ago, he wouldn't stand much of a chance," because Wimbledon was dominated by serve-and-volley players who would drive him off the court, Wilander said. "But now almost everybody plays from the baseline, so he has a chance to do well."

Having won the French Open, Nadal, ranked third in the world, comes into Wimbledon with a boatload of confidence. And unlike some previous winners on the red clay of Roland Garros, he is eager to excel on Wimbledon's grass.

"He's an amazing competitor," said Tom Gullikson, former U.S. Davis Cup captain. "He rallies well and fights for every point. He hits offensive shots from a defensive position. For example, when he is stretched out, sliding to his backhand, he hits winning passing shots. That should serve him well in passing-shot-type situations at Wimbledon."

And while he's not a superb volleyer, Nadal isn't afraid to approach the net. "You don't have to be a great volleyer to finish points on grass," Gullikson pointed out. "You just have to hit to the right part of the court." That's because balls don't bounce high on grass and often skid.

Still, Nadal's game won't be nearly as strong on grass as on clay or a slow hard court, experts say. He won't have as much time to prepare for his long forehand swings, and the heavy topspin he puts on his forehand won't make the ball bounce as high on grass as other surfaces.

In addition, "his serve isn't overpowering," as Tony Trabert, 1955 Wimbledon champion, put it. If Nadal has to play a strong server in the first or second round, such as Max Mirnyi or Ivo Karlovic, he could be sent to an early exit, said Trabert and others.

Roger Federer, the Swiss wunderkind, is a strong favorite to win Wimbledon for a third straight time, they agree. And American Andy Roddick stands the second best chance. Nadal, Lleyton Hewitt of Australia, Tim Henman of the UK and perhaps Marat Safin of Russia are behind them.

As for Henin-Hardenne, she is seen as a co-favorite to win Wimbledon along with world No. 1 Lindsay Davenport of the U.S., defending champion Maria Sharapova of Russia, Kim Clijsters of Belgium and the Williams sisters — if they are healthy and focused.

Henin-Hardenne, ranked only seventh in the world thanks to a virus that knocked her out of action for much of the last year, has the best all-around game among the women. "She's the best all around player in maybe the last 10 years, since Steffi Graf," said Gene Scott, publisher of Tennis Week magazine and himself a world class player in the 1960s.

Henin-Hardenne reached the finals of Wimbledon in 2001, when she lost to Venus. The Belgian's style of play is well suited to grass. She is strong off the ground on both wings, volleys well and has improved her serve.

"Clay rewards patience, persistence and grinding, while grass rewards athleticism and shot-making skills," said Gullikson, who coached Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi in Davis Cup. "Henin-Hardenne is very athletic and can hit good shots on the run. She's the best competitor on the women's tour, and isn't intimidated by the bigger girls.

Henin-Hardenne stands 5-foot-6, while the other Wimbledon favorites are at least 5-foot-9.

The variety of Henin-Hardenne's game sets her apart from those others. "She can mix it up — slice, come in to net and hit with topspin," Wilander said.

"Sharapova plays totally thoughtless tennis, just pounding the ball."

If one of the big hitters plays great, Henin-Hardenne could be in trouble, he said, but they have much less room for error.

With Nadal so eager to improve on grass, he and Henin-Hardenne are threats to win Wimbledon for many years to come.

Jim Jones
06-10-2005, 06:13 PM
Moya has an excuse he has a shouldier injury. Besides he has won on hardcourts so I don't really consider him to be just a clay-court specialist. Gaudio is hopless on grass and last year he skipped it to but he played well on the claycourts so maybe its good for him. As for Guga well he ahs not been the same since the hip operation. Still, it's stupid of him to skip the tournament.

Horatio Caine
06-10-2005, 06:18 PM
Guga needs matches and confidence...stupid move on his part even if he stood less than 50% chance of winning a match.

Neely
06-10-2005, 06:38 PM
U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-A-B-L-E how they SNUB Wimbledon and the leadup grass events!!!!! :lol:

I'm sure many more will snub Wimbledon and chicken out without having a good excuse.

Good players are supposed to play the Slams, not to snub them!
They deserve every single brick stone that is thrown at them for snubbing not only a TMS, but a SLAM.

Then again, on the other hand, I must frankly admit that I'm also not too eager to witness all time great grasscourt matches such as it happened with Puerta vs Puentes some years ago. But at least these two guys showed up...


As for Moya... well, he made the fourth round(?!) last year and it's sad that we don't get to see him again this year. But maybe it's the best for his shoulder :shrug:

Pea
06-10-2005, 06:51 PM
They're resting. It's just sooooooo close to the claycourt season.

Fee
06-10-2005, 06:51 PM
Moya is legitimately injured, so I have no problem with him withdrawing. If it's true that Guga is practicing twice a day at RG this week, then it would seem that he is healthy enough to try to play W. At least show up, you never know what odd things could happen and you could make the quarters (i.e. Henman, RG 2004).

(Everybody misses at least one Masters each year, so I won't pick on that).

Neely
06-10-2005, 07:05 PM
And Gaudio? Simply snubs a Grand Slam because he is afraid of getting his ass kicked badly by some #100 ranked player who actually can perform on grass? Or does he need extra time to recover from blowing this 4-0 lead in the fifth set against Ferrer at RG?


Yes, it maybe funny when we watch guys like Srichaphan, Carlsen, Ginepri, Morrison or Roddick bowing out at RG, but one thing you may not forget when laughing at them after some bad performances is that they actually showed up on their worst surface at RG and played preparation events to get some practice, unlike others who don't even show up at a Slam and give no shit about joining grass court tournament because it is played on grass. If it was on clay, they would be here.

boliviana
06-10-2005, 07:34 PM
silly people . . . why would you ever expect anything better of Gaudio?

Jenrios
06-10-2005, 08:36 PM
Gaudio has played Wimby in the past. Personally, with such a heavy tour schedule, I don't blame any player taking a break from their weakest surface, especially when that surface is only around for 3 weeks. Look at the players who missed the start of the clay season.

maratski
06-10-2005, 08:37 PM
Funny how Tangy doesn't bash American players for missing the TMS tournaments on clay :)

boliviana
06-10-2005, 08:43 PM
Gaudio has played Wimby in the past. Personally, with such a heavy tour schedule, I don't blame any player taking a break from their weakest surface, especially when that surface is only around for 3 weeks. Look at the players who missed the start of the clay season.


I don't necessarily disagree but he consistently underwhelms me and his performance at RG during the Ferrer match confirmed for me that he is a class A, number 1 flake. (and to all those gaudio fans out there, understand that I am not reasonable about him and I know that . . . he makes me nuts and when I see him I want to throttle him senseless)

Chloe le Bopper
06-10-2005, 08:44 PM
I think there is a huge difference between "being afraid to get their asses kicked" and simply not giving a fuck about the tournament, Neely.

Hard as it is to believe, some players truly don't want to make the effort for Wimbledon. If it was as simple as being afraid of losing there, perhaps they would make an effort to train harder for grass. Some of them don't. That should tell you something.

Not to suggest that I support players dropping out of Wimbledon like flies anymore than I do the rubbish reasoning that the Wimbledon-ites come up with.

Neely
06-10-2005, 10:10 PM
I think there is a huge difference between "being afraid to get their asses kicked" and simply not giving a fuck about the tournament, Neely.
Could be, probably it's a mixture of both for those who pull out from a Slam without being injured.

NYCtennisfan
06-10-2005, 10:21 PM
Yes, it maybe funny when we watch guys like Srichaphan, Carlsen, Ginepri, Morrison or Roddick bowing out at RG, but one thing you may not forget when laughing at them after some bad performances is that they actually showed up on their worst surface at RG and played preparation events to get some practice, unlike others who don't even show up at a Slam and give no shit about joining grass court tournament because it is played on grass. If it was on clay, they would be here.

Well said. Nobody is going to miss them though. Moya's injury would prevent him from doing anything although he played very well at the big W last year and had a great match against Hewitt in the 4th round. I always love watching Guga but with his injuries and lack of play, he wouldn't do anything either. Gaudio....well, I for one would llike to see that beautiful BH skidding off of some grass myself. Oh well.

the cat
06-10-2005, 10:23 PM
Tangy, I can't blame the clay couerters for pulling out of Wimbledon. they are so exhausted after playing a grueling clay court season that they don't have time to rest and then properly train on grass courts. If there was more time between the French Open and Wimbledon fewer clay court players would pull out of Wimbledon.

And Moya is battling a shoulder injury so his withdrawal is no surprise.

Neely
06-10-2005, 10:30 PM
If there was more time between the French Open and Wimbledon fewer clay court players would pull out of Wimbledon.
Sure is the schedule tough, but also if there was more time between Houston and Monte Carlo, more Americans had played all three clay TMS.

Lee
06-10-2005, 10:35 PM
For Guga, his ranking is out of top 200. There is no reason for him to use his protected ranking to enter Wimbleton which is the only grass court event that he will play this year and has very little chance to get through a few rounds.

btw, Guga plays good on clay but he also won titles in TMS Cincy (defeating Henman and Rafter) and TMC on indoor hard (defeating Sampras and Agassi), so not exactly a dirtballer only.

Billabong
06-10-2005, 10:45 PM
For Guga, his ranking is out of top 200. There is no reason for him to use his protected ranking to enter Wimbleton which is the only grass court event that he will play this year and has very little chance to get through a few rounds.

btw, Guga plays good on clay but he also won titles in TMS Cincy (defeating Henman and Rafter) and TMC on indoor hard (defeating Sampras and Agassi), so not exactly a dirtballer only.

:worship::yeah:

Neely
06-10-2005, 10:49 PM
Lee, I hope that every reasonable person knows that Guga has done much more demage than only on clay.

I think the title "dirtballers" here is not meant to be in an exclusive way ("they only can play well on clay") but is just put in there to take the piss out on those who felt the need to critisize some Americans players who skipped one of the three clay TMS for playing a home event that obviously means a lot to them and to avoid flight hours going from USA to Europe and back within just one week.

robinhood
06-10-2005, 10:53 PM
After this Wimbledon, Moya will most likely drop out of Top 20 in the entry ranking.
Will he be able to reenter Top 10?
Looks doubtful, but I really hope so!

Scotso
06-11-2005, 12:11 AM
Top players should play the grand slams unless they're injured, no matter the surface.

bad gambler
06-11-2005, 12:13 AM
what is a johnny?

Scotso
06-11-2005, 12:14 AM
I love how people say "dirtballers" skip Wimbledon. More than half the players that play Wimbledon this year are players that would probably say clay is their favorite surface.

propi
06-11-2005, 12:43 AM
what is a johnny?
Can't find his relation with tennis but...
The first entry of johnny in my yahoo search was this :confused:
http://www.freewebs.com/worldof_will-orlando_jack-johnny/johnny_depp_teehee.jpg
:confused:

Haute
06-11-2005, 01:46 AM
Does anyone have any official statements from any of these players saying that they've withdrawn? At this point, isn't this all just speculation?

Fedex
06-11-2005, 01:58 AM
Funny how Tangy doesn't bash American players for missing the TMS tournaments on clay :)
Yes, I know. :)

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 03:14 AM
Could be, probably it's a mixture of both for those who pull out from a Slam without being injured.
If they were simply scared, they would tank or not show up to all their matches against players they don't have a hope in Hell of beating too, would they not? :shrug:

Frankly, I don't think you have any evidence to support this claim. It's just your own Wimbledon bias talking nonsense. No offense, Neely, but that is how I see it.

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 03:19 AM
Sure is the schedule tough, but also if there was more time between Houston and Monte Carlo, more Americans had played all three clay TMS.
I find this to be a poor comparison.

Houston is one of the weakest clay tournaments on the schedule. Some players choose that tournament over Monte Carlo. Furthermore, these tournaments are played on the same surface.

This is not like the clay-season/Wimbledon "problem" whatsoever. Players who are great on clay and may have done well in RG are coming off months of a tiring clay season, a surface totally different from grass. I think it's understandable that they may be too fatigued physically/mentally to give the 100% required to adjust. So, why bother, when you can just take a holiday and come back fresh in three or four weeks?

That said, I'm not making excuses for people who pull out of grand slams. I'd rather that they not. But the schedules gives them an rather legitimate excuse, whether we like it or not.

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 03:21 AM
I love how people say "dirtballers" skip Wimbledon. More than half the players that play Wimbledon this year are players that would probably say clay is their favorite surface.
Nobody has ever been interested in paying attention to those who do show up. Last year everybody was too busying crying about Gaudio to notice that Coria played Wimbledon and two grass warmups. Which did wonders for his shoulder, by the way. I guess that's what some people would like - all "dirtballers" to overplay like Coria did and stress injuries that already exist until they are so serious that surgery is required.

These whiners will never be happy, so there is no sense trying to please them with good examples.

They will whine about those that don't show up and mock those who do. At the end of the day, me thinks that the millionaires with racquets win either way.

Haute
06-11-2005, 03:24 AM
If they were simply scared, they would tank or not show up to all their matches against players they don't have a hope in Hell of beating too, would they not? :shrug:

Frankly, I don't think you have any evidence to support this claim. It's just your own Wimbledon bias talking nonsense. No offense, Neely, but that is how I see it.

But doesn't the ATP fine players for not showing up to their match, ot if it's obvious that they've tanked the match?

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 03:32 AM
But doesn't the ATP fine players for not showing up to their match, ot if it's obvious that they've tanked the match?
If they are that afraid of getting their ass kicked, then surely they would either make their tanking discreet, or cleverly pull up injured at the end of the previous match. Sounds irrational, doesn't it? So does pulling out of a slam due to "fear". Pulling out due to indifference makes a Hell of a lot more sense.

gogo_guga
06-11-2005, 04:13 AM
Guga has been skipping Wimbledon since forever, I don't see why everyone is so surprised.

WyveN
06-11-2005, 04:15 AM
Pulling out due to indifference makes a Hell of a lot more sense.

How can you be indifferent toward a slam?
Gaudio has played at every opportunity during the clay season, at times in some minor tournaments yet decides not to show up for a slam on a surface that doesnt suit his game. If he isn't injured there is no excuse and no logical reason for doing so this year.

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 04:25 AM
How can you be indifferent toward a slam?
Gaudio has played at every opportunity during the clay season, at times in some minor tournaments yet decides not to show up for a slam on a surface that doesnt suit his game. If he isn't injured there is no excuse and no logical reason for doing so this year.
I don't understand how he can be indifferent to a slam, but he quite clearly is. Being indifferent makes more sense than having a profound fear of ass kickage, because I don't see him running away in other matches where he might get his ass kicked. Gaudio is afraid to win, not lose ;)

WyveN
06-11-2005, 04:30 AM
Unless Gaudio is injured its a silly decision by him whatever the reasons especially with Argentina playing Australia on grass in DC shortly. With a few injuries to some others Gaudio might be forced to play there.

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 04:33 AM
Unless Gaudio is injured its a silly decision by him whatever the reasons especially with Argentina playing Australia on grass in DC shortly. With a few injuries to some others Gaudio might be forced to play there.
It's certainly not a decision that I respect, that much is for sure.

I only disagree with Neely's reasoning for the decision, that is all.

Good point about DC.

fleur137
06-11-2005, 04:50 AM
I know this isn't WTAWorld but I just can't resist...
"Sharapova plays totally thoughtless tennis, just pounding the ball." Mats Wilander - you rock!

Lee
06-11-2005, 05:10 AM
Guga has been skipping Wimbledon since forever, I don't see why everyone is so surprised.

I really can't understand why everybody keep saying Guga skipping Wimbledon. He played Wimbledon from 1997-2000. He did not play in 2001 and I think that's the year about players not happy with Wimbledon messing up with the seeding and also he was quite burnt out as he won TMS MC, final in TMS Roma and lost in first round vs Mirnyi in Hamburg and won RG. He did not play in 2002 as he's still recovering from his hip surgery. He played in 2003 and didn't in 2004 because he was injured again and later had 2nd hip surgery.

Overall, he skipped 3 Wimbledon in his career and two of it because of injury, and I already explained why he will probably skip this year so please justify your post!

Fee
06-11-2005, 05:14 AM
Funny how Tangy doesn't bash American players for missing the TMS tournaments on clay :)

There are 3 Clay Masters and all of the eligible Americans show up for at least one of them, usually 2. We are comparing slams to slams here, not Masters.

jasmine(usa)
06-11-2005, 06:37 AM
I don't understand how he can be indifferent to a slam, but he quite clearly is. Being indifferent makes more sense than having a profound fear of ass kickage, because I don't see him running away in other matches where he might get his ass kicked. Gaudio is afraid to win, not lose ;) This is so true! ;)

connectolove
06-11-2005, 06:48 AM
posted by maratski[I] : "Funny how Tangy doesn't bash American players for missing the TMS tournaments on clay"

Boy, this is so true. At the end most players just want to win and make the money, very few are driven by the challenge, as the writer puts it, only Nadal and Henin-Hardene want the challenge. We have seen Nadal on grass, he looked like a fish out of water, I can't believe he is trying but kudos to him!

maratski
06-11-2005, 07:46 AM
There are 3 Clay Masters and all of the eligible Americans show up for at least one of them, usually 2. We are comparing slams to slams here, not Masters.

If the Americans were serious about clay tournaments they would play all three, the status of the tournament is irrelevant imo. It's just a clear case of the pot calling the kettle black :)

You really don't need to give me a course in reading :)

Action Jackson
06-11-2005, 08:47 AM
And Gaudio? Simply snubs a Grand Slam because he is afraid of getting his ass kicked badly by some #100 ranked player who actually can perform on grass? Or does he need extra time to recover from blowing this 4-0 lead in the fifth set against Ferrer at RG?

Thank you for making my day. I remember a discussion we had during the Americans snubbing Monte Carlo and you said it was alright for certain players to skip big events that cause they don't like the surface.


http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=1500108&postcount=187

It's very easy to use the same line of reasoning and you are aware of my theories about players skipping Slams and TMS events.

You can't have it both ways, it's not good whatever way, you said you could understand the reasons when someone you like does it, but not someone else.

WyveN
06-11-2005, 09:28 AM
the status of the tournament is irrelevant imo.

it is relevant, no one is criticising players for missing queens/halle

.

Action Jackson
06-11-2005, 09:31 AM
Unless Gaudio is injured its a silly decision by him whatever the reasons especially with Argentina playing Australia on grass in DC shortly. With a few injuries to some others Gaudio might be forced to play there.

Javier Frana has more chance of playing Davis Cup than Gaudio does.

Gonzo Hates Me!
06-11-2005, 11:18 AM
I think it is dumb to not play Wimbly--might as well show up, stick your damn racket out, and hope for the best. Never miss an opportunity to rack up a lot of points. I think if players wanna take time off after the clay season, then they should atleast just not play the warm-ups.

But regarding the no-shows, I can understand Moya's situation. And yeah, he did do well last year, so i am sure he is bummed

Neely
06-11-2005, 11:22 AM
and you said it was alright for certain players to skip big events that cause they don't like the surface.
I never said that. Rather the opposite, I said that the best would be if all good players would play the big events, but when some do not, I can see their reasons for it. Such as for Gaudio in 2004 when he didn't play. He won the French Open this year and was busy with lots of other things to deal that all of a sudden happened because he won this Slam. Also if Gaudio skipped one TMS in Europe to play a tournament in his home town I would understand it and then showed up the next two of the same kind.

But no excuses for skipping a Slam if you are not injured.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=1498522&postcount=157

Gonzo Hates Me!
06-11-2005, 11:23 AM
There are 3 Clay Masters and all of the eligible Americans show up for at least one of them, usually 2. We are comparing slams to slams here, not Masters.

:yeah:

jazz_girl
06-11-2005, 11:27 AM
According to an Argentine newspaper Gastón has an injury in his right shoulder. I don't know how accurate this is though...

Lalitha
06-11-2005, 11:35 AM
Yes, it maybe funny when we watch guys like Srichaphan, Carlsen, Ginepri, Morrison or Roddick bowing out at RG, but one thing you may not forget when laughing at them after some bad performances is that they actually showed up on their worst surface at RG and played preparation events to get some practice, unlike others who don't even show up at a Slam and give no shit about joining grass court tournament because it is played on grass. If it was on clay, they would be here.

Grass season is only for 2-3 weeks and Wimbly is the only major event on grass. But clay has two Master series and a lot of other tourneys, and a player cannot skip the season that long.

~EMiLiTA~
06-11-2005, 12:06 PM
players do what suits them...so what. it's always happened and will continue to do so.

American players skip clay masters...and "dirtballers" as u insist on calling them, skip grass tournies...c'est la vie

Neely
06-11-2005, 01:44 PM
Grass season is only for 2-3 weeks and Wimbly is the only major event on grass. But clay has two Master series and a lot of other tourneys, and a player cannot skip the season that long.
No top player skipped the clay season, did somebody?

As for grass season only being four weeks long is no valid argument. A Slam is played on this surface and top players that are qualified for this event are supposed to be here.

Jenrios
06-11-2005, 03:26 PM
players do what suits them...so what. it's always happened and will continue to do so.

American players skip clay masters...and "dirtballers" as u insist on calling them, skip grass tournies...c'est la vie

exactly Emilita. The problem with grass court season is that it only lasts for a month. Players can start playing on clay in February, and keep on playing on it until September, maybe even longer. For players who like the clay, it can be a long season - so a month long break in between is most welcome, I'm sure.

Jenrios
06-11-2005, 03:28 PM
Pulling out due to indifference makes a Hell of a lot more sense.

Thing is, Becca, some posters will feel that every player must surely want to play Wimby and do well there :rolleyes:

Jenrios
06-11-2005, 03:34 PM
and if some of these players pull out, then players like Dick Norman get their annual chance to shine:)

acdbx
06-11-2005, 03:37 PM
"Henin-Hardenne and Nadal winning the French was the best thing that can happen for tennis," said Mats Wilander, who won seven Grand Slam tournaments himself in the 1980s. "Henin-Hardenne plays proper, control tennis," he said, unlike many of the big-hitting women. "And Nadal comes with his game face, saying 'Come and beat me if you can.'"


So Nadal plays proper, control tennis unlike the other big-hitters. Does Henin-Hardenne swashbuckle into town with her game face, saying "Come and beat me if you can"?

They seem like two contrasting styles.. dunno what Wilander is smokin.. and why is Wilander getting so much publicity these days?

Jenrios
06-11-2005, 03:40 PM
Karlovic, after 8 first round loses, makes his first ATP final. Karlovic and Roddick final - scintilating, eh?:)

star
06-11-2005, 03:46 PM
So Nadal plays proper, control tennis unlike the other big-hitters. Does Henin-Hardenne swashbuckle into town with her game face, saying "Come and beat me if you can"?

They seem like two contrasting styles.. dunno what Wilander is smokin.. and why is Wilander getting so much publicity these days?

Because he's great and everybody loves him. :angel:

Neely
06-11-2005, 03:49 PM
and if some of these players pull out, then players like Dick Norman get their annual chance to shine:)
Yes, certainly a good chance for the grasscourt specialists who normally are not doing a lot of demage somewhere else to get a bit more attention and to win a few rounds :)

Jenrios
06-11-2005, 03:52 PM
and build up their bank balance which will see them through the lean clay-court period:)

maratski
06-11-2005, 05:07 PM
it is relevant, no one is criticising players for missing queens/halle

.

I should have been more clear in my post. I meant GS and TMS tournaments

.

Fee
06-11-2005, 05:37 PM
Who cares about the Masters tournies? There are nine of them and every player skips at least one of them for a variety of reasons. This is a discussion about the Slams, the four biggest tournaments of the year, and how it seems to be okay to pull out of just one of them for no good reason. An entire country can skip it and no one seems to mention it (although they don't do that any more). If the Americans skipped RG en masse, this board would go nuts. But I guess this is just another one of those silly MTF double standards...

Billy Moonshine
06-11-2005, 05:42 PM
People getting their knockers in a twist over players missing slams. Why? do you think they give a crap what we think? No. Its a job to them and all they want is the cash. You can moralise all u like, they don't care! and really, why do you?

Neely
06-11-2005, 05:56 PM
People getting their knockers in a twist over players missing slams.
Obviously so, and now imagine that people had a 300 post thread discussing a similiar happening that occured some weeks ago when most of the American players decided to miss Monte Carlo TMS because they actually played a home event in Houston before but later still showed up at the remaining two clay TMS and at RG. :eek: :eek: Imagine, what an incredible snub THIS was! :eek:

(BTW, don't want to blame players who really have to withdraw because of actual injuries)

Sjengster
06-11-2005, 06:02 PM
People getting their knockers in a twist over players missing slams. Why? do you think they give a crap what we think? No. Its a job to them and all they want is the cash. You can moralise all u like, they don't care! and really, why do you?

Now there's a neat trick.

I don't see why people should stop bothering to discuss things just because those views probably won't have an impact on the subject of discussion itself. If that was the case, all discussion forums everywhere would be redundant.

Billy Moonshine
06-11-2005, 06:10 PM
Neely, I remember that thread. A certain poster ripped me to shreds for daring to defend Andys decision.
Sjenster, im not saying that it shouldnt be discussed, just wanna know why it bothers people. Doesnt bother me, curious though why it does others.

Sjengster
06-11-2005, 06:12 PM
Because people have their biases, be it towards clay or grass, and will always have a go at those players who don't want to make the effort on either surface.

Billy Moonshine
06-11-2005, 06:15 PM
But thats their perogative, no?
I mean why cant they make those decisions?
tennis is a business now, this is how they make their money, why struggle for it when theres easy cash at Gstaad etc in a few weeks?

Sjengster
06-11-2005, 06:22 PM
We don't force them to change their decisions by debating them on here, so equally why shouldn't we talk about it? I'm not about to adopt a completely uncritical attitude towards players just because they're pros, and accept that every decision they make is the right one. Yes, there is a lot of rubbish spoken about almost every high-profile player on MTF, but I'd rather that than a fawning acceptance that player knows best.

Jogy
06-11-2005, 07:20 PM
But I guess this is just another one of those silly MTF double standards...
You say it correct. Sure it was more interesting for our great standards setting George Hitler here on the forums to talking bad about USA players and Haas, 'pseudo-American' like he called him when Haas left Monte Carlo out of his kalendar for playing in Houston where he tryed to defended his title from 2004.
He empathic did make 100 posts and talk down on players for missing Monacco, but when other players skip a GRAND SLAM it is not so bad because George Hitler don't like gras.

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 08:07 PM
and if some of these players pull out, then players like Dick Norman get their annual chance to shine:)

:haha:

Chloe le Bopper
06-11-2005, 08:21 PM
Thing is, Becca, some posters will feel that every player must surely want to play Wimby and do well there :rolleyes:

Indeed. This leads to illogical explanations for why they don't show up ;)

tangerine_dream
06-13-2005, 08:53 PM
More pull-outs. btw, Mardy's going to be out of the rest of the year.
Good thing Chela's not going, now Lleyton won't have to wear his slicker.

Moya, Gaudio, Fish among Wimbledon withdrawals

June 13, 2005
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports

WIMBLEDON, England -- Former French Open champions Carlos Moya and Gaston Gaudio have withdrawn from Wimbledon citing injuries, the All England Club said Monday.

Moya, a Spanish clay-court expert who won Roland Garros in 1998 and is currently ranked No. 20 in the world, pulled out with a shoulder injury. Moya had his best showing at Wimbledon last year when he reached the fourth round.

Argentina's Gaudio, ranked No. 12, also cited a shoulder injury. He won the French Open in 2004 and has never made the third round at Wimbledon.

American player Mardy Fish (wrist) and two other Argentines -- Mariano Zabaleta (foot) and Juan Ignacio Chela also pulled out. No reason was given for Chela's withdrawal.

Serbia's Janko Tipsarevic, Albert Montanes from Spain, Sweden's Thomas Enqvist and Czechs Ivo Minar and Bohdan Ulihrach take their places in the draw.

Argentina's Edgardo Massa (shoulder) and Spain's Albert Costa (knee) had pulled out earlier.

The Wimbledon seedings will be announced Wednesday, with the draw Thursday. Play starts June 20.

YoursTruly
06-14-2005, 01:31 AM
They're resting. It's just sooooooo close to the claycourt season.


Exactly. Before it was most likely because the dirtballers had no interest in playing Wimby, but now it's mostly because of burnout. It's too close to the end of the clay court season.

DanEd
06-14-2005, 01:36 AM
gaudio has a shoulder injury

World Beater
06-14-2005, 03:13 AM
someone educate me...i dont see too much of a difference between sharapova and nadal. Ok, nadal is faster and hits with more spin...but wants to hit the ball about as hard as sharapova does.

I would like to think that Nadal has a tactical mind...but i just dont see. someone help me

bad gambler
06-14-2005, 04:10 AM
FYI

Scott Draper replaces Costa in the main draw

Chloe le Bopper
06-14-2005, 04:58 AM
FYI

Scott Draper replaces Costa in the main draw
:banana:

Chloe le Bopper
06-14-2005, 04:59 AM
someone educate me...i dont see too much of a difference between sharapova and nadal. Ok, nadal is faster and hits with more spin...but wants to hit the ball about as hard as sharapova does.

I would like to think that Nadal has a tactical mind...but i just dont see. someone help me
Wrong thread or random thought? :confused:

I don't see how you think the two are the same. I guess I need to be educated as well :confused:

World Beater
06-14-2005, 07:06 AM
Wrong thread or random thought? :confused:

I don't see how you think the two are the same. I guess I need to be educated as well :confused:

My thought isnt that random...def off topic though. It was in response to some posters' predictions on rafa & other dirtballers, and how he would do in Wimbledon. Someone else brought up the Mats wilander comment about how, Sharapova plays mindless tennis while rafa puts his game face on(and presumably plays thoughtful tennis).

Some user stated that Mats was wrong, and I to some extent agree he was on some :smoke: Cos I cant see the tactical nous of nadal. i see nadal as a left handed carlos moya running around lots of bh to hit forehands. I know this is wrong becos ppl tell me that he is more than that, and I would like to agree but cant.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 07:07 AM
I would like to think that Nadal has a tactical mind...but i just dont see. someone help me

Or you don't want to see it? :)

World Beater
06-14-2005, 07:09 AM
Or you don't want to see it? :)

Its true I havent seen too many rafa matches, but this is precisely the reason I ask.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 07:12 AM
Its true I havent seen too many rafa matches, but this is precisely the reason I ask.

He has shown a clear ability to learn lessons very well and adapt. He is very good tactically already I mean he is not in the Hewitt, Federer or Coria in that regard, but within his style of his game, he is very good. The thing is in the Federer match, with the passing shots, he didn't always go for clean winners and not always hit them down the same side of the court. He has shown a good tactical sense already.

World Beater
06-14-2005, 07:21 AM
You say he can learn and adapt

I say his game was tailor made for clay courts. He didnt need to adjust. I think his tactical mind will become clear as he plays more on harcourts where he has to play with careful tactics, as the surface wont necc be in his favor.

He has played federer tough before. Its not like he needed to change his tactics or learn new lessons to beat him.

Sure he is better than gonzo and doesnt go for outright winners, but so is everyone else.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 07:26 AM
You say he can learn and adapt

I say his game was tailor made for clay courts. He didnt need to adjust. I think his tactical mind will become clear as he plays more on harcourts where he has to play with careful tactics, as the surface wont necc be in his favor.

He has played federer tough before. Its not like he needed to change his tactics or learn new lessons to beat him.

Sure he is better than gonzo and doesnt go for outright winners, but so is everyone else.

There are certain limitations within his game and he has performed quite well on the hardcourts so far and he didn't lose his match at the AO against Hewitt or Federer cause of bad tactics.

He is not a brainless basher, no matter how much you want that to happen.

World Beater
06-14-2005, 07:36 AM
There are certain limitations within his game and he has performed quite well on the hardcourts so far and he didn't lose his match at the AO against Hewitt or Federer cause of bad tactics.

He is not a brainless basher, no matter how much you want that to happen.

No, I actually would like to believe that Nadal has good tactical sense. But i will not blindly believe it. Tactics were made so that players could overcome limitations. Even though a player may lack a skill(e.g volleying/serving), tactics would enable them to circumvent them to a good degree.

Would you say maria bashes brainlessly? Cos your comrade, mats does. If so explain why nadal is more tactically astute than maria.

If you dont have reasons, fine. But there is no use the pull out the "you want him to be a basher etc etc" card.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 07:36 AM
You say it correct. Sure it was more interesting for our great standards setting George Hitler here on the forums to talking bad about USA players and Haas, 'pseudo-American' like he called him when Haas left Monte Carlo out of his kalendar for playing in Houston where he tryed to defended his title from 2004.

Jogy, as you know when you rip on Argentine players for being dope fiends that is just you and laughing at Federer losing. Considering nearly every player here gets ragged on.

He empathic did make 100 posts and talk down on players for missing Monacco, but when other players skip a GRAND SLAM it is not so bad because George Hitler don't like gras.

So, I don't like grass, that is not groundbreaking news. Considering I have said the best players should play all the top events and last time I looked Wimbledon was one of those top tournaments, irrespective of whether they like the surface or not.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 07:44 AM
No, I actually would like to believe that Nadal has good tactical sense. But i will not blindly believe it. Tactics were made so that players could overcome limitations. Even though a player may lack a skill(e.g volleying/serving), tactics would enable them to circumvent them to a good degree.

What makes you think that I would blindly believe anything?

Would you say maria bashes brainlessly? Cos your comrade, mats does. If so explain why nadal is more tactically astute than maria.

On the WTA there aren't many tactically astute players, and if you saw Screamarova play at RG, using your criteria, she was clearly shown to be lacking in that regard when she played Henin-Hardenne, who is the smartest player tactically. She was moved around and made to look silly consistently and didn't have any solutions, if she tried other things apart from hitting the ball hard, then maybe.

If you dont have reasons, fine. But there is no use the pull out the "you want him to be a basher etc etc" card.

I have seen Nadal play since he was 15, and I gave reasons earlier, and knowing when to play the right shot at the right time is a sign of tactical nous, which is something Nadal does very well. Wouldn't it be better to watch more Nadal matches to see for yourself.

World Beater
06-14-2005, 07:58 AM
What makes you think that I would blindly believe anything?
.

Did i say you do?



On the WTA there aren't many tactically astute players, and if you saw Screamarova play at RG, using your criteria, she was clearly shown to be lacking in that regard when she played Henin-Hardenne, who is the smartest player tactically. She was moved around and made to look silly consistently and didn't have any solutions, if she tried other things apart from hitting the ball hard, then maybe.
.

Maria lost because her game isnt suited to clay.Just like Nadal's fav surface may not be grass.
She hits her shots flat, the exact opposite of nadal. She is not tactically astute, but i dont see how nadal is better in this regard.

They both hit the ball differently. Both are physically strong and they won their respective majors. i am not saying nadal needs to win other majors to prove he is tactically astute, but i think it is premature to call him that.


I have seen Nadal play since he was 15, and I gave reasons earlier, and knowing when to play the right shot at the right time is a sign of tactical nous, which is something Nadal does very well.
.

Seeing as how rafa hits his forehand most of the time (a result of his great movement), giving him two options. Cross court or dtl. If he didnt know which to choose depending on where the player is, I would be very worried.


Wouldn't it be better to watch more Nadal matches to see for yourself.

I wish I could.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 08:07 AM
But thats their perogative, no?
I mean why cant they make those decisions?
tennis is a business now, this is how they make their money, why struggle for it when theres easy cash at Gstaad etc in a few weeks?

Hardly any one is deluded enough to think that anything discussed here is going to have an impact on the tennis world at large.

These issues are going to be discussed and if people just followed blindly and didn't question the decisions made by the favourite player, that is worse than some people discussing with different points of view.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 08:17 AM
Did i say you do?

Got to have clarity here.

Maria lost because her game isnt suited to clay.Just like Nadal's fav surface may not be grass. She hits her shots flat, the exact opposite of nadal. She is not tactically astute, but i dont see how nadal is better in this regard.

That was not the sole reason as to why she lost, but a factor for sure. Ok, when something isn't working, then as a top player shouldn't they have something else to use. She was not intelligent enough to give more loop on her shots, or throw some change ups.

They both hit the ball differently. Both are physically strong and they won their respective majors. i am not saying nadal needs to win other majors to prove he is tactically astute, but i think it is premature to call him that.

Premature for you, but not others who have seen Nadal play since he was 15 and progressing through these times. Nadal doesn't waste shots and has a very good shot selection and plays them at the right moment.

What is your definition of it anyways?


Seeing as how rafa hits his forehand most of the time (a result of his great movement), giving him two options. Cross court or dtl. If he didnt know which to choose depending on where the player is, I would be very worried.

Hewitt hits his backhand crosscourt all of the time and uses his speed, but he is still tactically very aware how to play matches. Nadal plays to his strengths and use his forehand to vary where the ball is placed through the angles and the height that the opponent has to hit them. His backhand well he has improved it and is safe, not always going for the big winner and then waiting for right shot is important.


I wish I could.

You need to, it would make it easier to evaluate.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 08:26 AM
This is a discussion about the Slams, the four biggest tournaments of the year, and how it seems to be okay to pull out of just one of them for no good reason. An entire country can skip it and no one seems to mention it (although they don't do that any more). If the Americans skipped RG en masse, this board would go nuts. But I guess this is just another one of those silly MTF double standards...

Not everyone treats the Slams with the same respect and there are players who don't give a monkeys about Wimbledon and the same can be said for the other Slams as well.

Considering I have said and will repeat it again, that the top players should play all the major events barring legit injuries, but yes that is forgotten cause it's double standards.

World Beater
06-14-2005, 08:38 AM
That was not the sole reason as to why she lost, but a factor for sure. Ok, when something isn't working, then as a top player shouldn't they have something else to use. She was not intelligent enough to give more loop on her shots, or throw some change ups.
.

Maria doesnt have versatility. Similarly, will you ask nadal to rush the net just cos he needs to be there more often to finish pts off, even though it may trouble him to hit good volleys. Have you ever seen maria hit good loopy shots?




Premature for you, but not others who have seen Nadal play since he was 15 and progressing through these times. Nadal doesn't waste shots and has a very good shot selection and plays them at the right moment.
.

By the same token, maria has progressed even further since the time she was 15.

Heck, she is so much better than when she was 9 yrs old. She must be incredibly astute.


What is your definition of it anyways?
.

Agassi and hewitt are perfect examples. Agassi didnt have great skills at net, yet won wimby. He doesnt have an extreme grip, yet won RG.

Hewitt shots are flat but not that penetrating. Kinda tough to succeed with that. But he has done so very well by exposing the opponents weaknesses.




Hewitt hits his backhand crosscourt all of the time and uses his speed, but he is still tactically very aware how to play matches. Nadal plays to his strengths and use his forehand to vary where the ball is placed through the angles and the height that the opponent has to hit them. His backhand well he has improved it and is safe, not always going for the big winner and then waiting for right shot is important.
.

Hewitt hits his bh cc becos its safe, and apparently its high %. It also explains why he loses to federer, safin and moya. Guys who expose this shot.
Speed is not an example. Its his big asset.

I dont think Nadal can go for a big winner on his bh 4 ft behind the baseline.

The height at which the ball bounces isnt an example of his tactical nous. Nadal brushed up the back of the ball against every opponent he plays. Its a function of his technique.


You need to, it would make it easier to evaluate.

Why would I do that? :rolleyes: It would take out all of the fun of discussing with you

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 08:40 AM
I never said that. Rather the opposite, I said that the best would be if all good players would play the big events, but when some do not, I can see their reasons for it. Such as for Gaudio in 2004 when he didn't play. He won the French Open this year and was busy with lots of other things to deal that all of a sudden happened because he won this Slam. Also if Gaudio skipped one TMS in Europe to play a tournament in his home town I would understand it and then showed up the next two of the same kind.

But no excuses for skipping a Slam if you are not injured.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/showpost.php?p=1498522&postcount=157

Reasons can be found for a lot of things, if the grass season was longer and less of the hardcourts, wouldn't be better for one for their bodies and two an actual incentive to improve their game on grass.

Gaudio has played Wimbledon before, he has played every week since Monte Carlo to RG, there is a distinct possibility of wear and tear on the shoulder, but I am not saying anything either way, there are players who have withdrawn legitmately through injuries and the fact that it's Wimbledon which for some is not a reason to rush back into competition, whether people like it or not. There are a few long termers in this case.

Action Jackson
06-14-2005, 08:52 AM
Maria doesnt have versatility. Similarly, will you ask nadal to rush the net just cos he needs to be there more often to finish pts off, even though it may trouble him to hit good volleys. Have you ever seen maria hit good loopy shots?

Why are you bringing the WTA into a mens tennis board anyway? Ok, doesn't depend on the situation? Nadal is up there as often as he needs to be, plus if something doesn't work, then there has to be the ability to change the game or tactics, she doesn't have either.

By the same token, maria has progressed even further since the time she was 15. Heck, she is so much better than when she was 9 yrs old. She must be incredibly astute.

WTA arguments don't work here, considering he beat 2 RG champs at the age of 16 and why doesn't the WTA argument work in this case, the deeper player depth in the ATP.

Agassi and hewitt are perfect examples. Agassi didnt have great skills at net, yet won wimby. He doesnt have an extreme grip, yet won RG.
Hewitt shots are flat but not that penetrating. Kinda tough to succeed with that. But he has done so very well by exposing the opponents weaknesses.

Agassi plays the same way the whole time and hits his way out of trouble, he has been successful, but there were times when he needed to be defensive and never did it.

Wilander is actually the perfect example 7 Slams on 4 different surfaces and he wasn't the best of his generation, he had to adapt within his game against better opponents and had brilliant tactical sense. Does it actually matter if Nadal wins Wimbledon? Coria is very good tactically with the way he plays the game and moves the ball around and using the assets to the fullest are part of it as well.


I dont think Nadal can go for a big winner on his bh 4 ft behind the baseline.

He is not a grinder and since you haven't seen enough matches, you might have missed the 1 winner he hit during RG.

The height at which the ball bounces isnt an example of his tactical nous. Nadal brushed up the back of the ball against every opponent he plays. Its a function of his technique.

Got to use your technique to move the players out of position and give them shots that they don't like, that is part of using a tactical side of things, when to hit the right shot on lobs, moving forward and passing shots,

Why would I do that? :rolleyes: It would take out all of the fun of discussing with you

Ok, fun over for today.

tangerine_dream
06-14-2005, 07:07 PM
Andre :sad: :sobbing:

Agassi Pulls Out Of Wimbledon

June 14, 2005

LONDON -- Former champion Andre Agassi announced on Tuesday that he will skip Wimbledon for a second straight year, citing a hip injury.

The world No. 6 star missed Wimbledon 2004 with an ailing hip and was a first- round loser against Finn Jarkko Nieminen at the French Open three weeks ago while battling the injury.

The eight-time Grand Slam champion Agassi captured his first major at Wimbledon back in 1992. He's won each of the major events at least once and is also an Olympic gold medalist.

The 35-year-old Las Vegas native is 44-12 lifetime at Wimbledon, including his championship 13 years ago and a runner-up finish to his long-time rival Pete Sampras in 1999.

The Wimbledon seeds will be announced on Wednesday, while the draws will be revealed Thursday at the All England Club.

Hokit
06-15-2005, 12:04 PM
If they don't want to take the time and effort to spend their time on a surface they don't like, then good for them. Honestly, it's their own choice and they haven't broken any disciplinary rules. Why should they get criticised for it?

Players like Roddick and Scrichapan may give it a shot on clay tournaments, but again, it was their own choice. And besides, there are a lot more clay tournaments, and not to mention that there are a few TMS amongst them as well: it's harder to avoid playing on clay than on grass.

And different players have different ways of going about when they plan their schedule. It's all about weighing pros and cons: for a player like Gaudio, he has a tiny chance at making it big in London and would probably get injured sometime during the fortnight. Him and others have to worry about their health and make up their minds whether the points accumulated and potential of succeeding on grass is worth enough for them to spend time in countries like Britain, Germany and the Netherlands. Plus, the grass season lasts for about 4 weeks anyway, which doesn't help its case for attracting players.

Tennis is about business, and frankly, I'm starting to think that players like Gaudio and Kuerten have made pretty smart decisions. And besides, the 4 week break is probably good for them, since the year-end one is so damn short.

Neely
06-20-2005, 09:19 AM
Hokit, what you wrote was a good opinion, of course. I wished more people would think so when it's about the Americans missing one TMS on clay only despite playing instead in Houston, a home event which has preference for them, and lets not forget they're still showing up for the rest of the important clay events.

However, the thing snubbing a whole season one one surface, snubbing a Grand Slam and not playing at all or playing clay challengers at the same time is a bit different. No excuses for that because the grass season is so short.

Anyway, this thread, at least my posts here, are not meant to critisize players for having valid injuries, such as Moya for example. It's rather taking a piss out on those who couldn't stop complaining about the Americans who didn't play Monte Carlo ;)

BTW, speaking of the short grass season.... yes, it should be longer, at least 7 or 8 weeks IMO. Other surfaces get also their time in the calendar and you can play on clay until after the US Open.

As for the injuries, well.... I hope next season Roddick & Co are clever enough to state or invent an injury for not playing certain clay events ;) :p And I'm sure they would recover just in time for the other events :angel: :)


Tennis is about business, and frankly, I'm starting to think that players like Gaudio and Kuerten have made pretty smart decisions. And besides, the 4 week break is probably good for them, since the year-end one is so damn short.
Sure, I think so too. The same how I think that it was a good decision for Roddick, Agassi, Haas and others not to play Monte Carlo TMS to avoid travelling hours because of having to go to Europe, back to the US and than again back to Europe without just one week.

Action Jackson
06-20-2005, 09:59 AM
However, the thing snubbing a whole season one one surface, snubbing a Grand Slam and not playing at all or playing clay challengers at the same time is a bit different. No excuses for that because the grass season is so short.

Considering most of the players that have pulled out have been injured Zabaleta, Costa, Calleri, Massa for example, well not everyone believes your propaganda about Wimbledon being the greatest thing and if the seasons were reversed as in the time on the surface. I doubt you'd be using the same tone.

Neely
06-20-2005, 10:29 AM
and if the seasons were reversed as in the time on the surface. I doubt you'd be using the same tone.
Well that would be your job then to jump in and to demand a longer clay season than only four weeks ;) But I guess I would still see your point then, too, if they only played for four weeks on clay and about half the season with events on grass.

Action Jackson
06-20-2005, 10:33 AM
Well that would be your job then to jump in and to demand a longer clay season than only four weeks ;) But I guess I would still see your point then, too, if they only played for four weeks on clay and about half the season on grass.

Not at all, there are more important things wrong with tennis than to worry about the length of the clay season, it should be all year round actually. The only difference about the seasons being reversed is that grass is not as tough physically as in the style of play as clay, though the one advantage is that along with clay it's much easier on the joints.

Jogy
06-20-2005, 04:33 PM
main thing that I care is that Haas is playing Wimbledon! :yeah:


and I would like to get to set more claycourt players likle Puerta at Wimbledon. Always a good laughing for me :haha: :haha: :haha: ... to see what happen to them when they're not play on clay and how less game abilitys they have! :haha:

NATAS81
06-20-2005, 04:40 PM
Yeah, I wanna know what a johnny is.

It's good because they're taking up room.

Pim should've been seeded higher than Puerta.

Damn French Open performance.

Puerta getting crushed

1-6 through first two sets. lolol

Lost 1-6 1-6 4-6 :haha:

Exodus
06-20-2005, 04:42 PM
you can't blame those dirtballers just look at Puerta he got his ass kicked real hard LOL

DanEd
06-20-2005, 09:08 PM
pim pim barely won against the claycourt journeyman Montañes (76(5) 64 75)

Yeah, I wanna know what a johnny is.

It's good because they're taking up room.

Pim should've been seeded higher than Puerta.

Damn French Open performance.

Puerta getting crushed

1-6 through first two sets. lolol

Lost 1-6 1-6 4-6 :haha:

DanEd
06-20-2005, 09:30 PM
Do you mean claycourt players such as Albert Costa? :rolleyes:
main thing that I care is that Haas is playing Wimbledon! :yeah:


and I would like to get to set more claycourt players likle Puerta at Wimbledon. Always a good laughing for me :haha: :haha: :haha: ... to see what happen to them when they're not play on clay and how less game abilitys they have! :haha:

Neely
06-21-2005, 06:38 AM
Do you mean claycourt players such as Albert Costa? :rolleyes:
lol, indeed... Costa ultimately snubbed Wimbledon and grass court tennis as a whole. But at least he was innovative with his "I don't like how the seedings are done at Wimbledon" boycott and he had some followers actually. To his credit, this kind of "excuse" was a very elegant solution for his stubbornness simply not liking the play on grass and therefore not showing up.

Was quite funny when Costa, Corretja & others boycotted it. And also Ferrero seemed to join the club at some time claiming a late injury as official reason to pull out in 2000.

Concerning Costa, at least he had somewhere near acceptable achievements and better results on hardcourt, unlilke Puerta, Gaudio...

Chloe le Bopper
06-21-2005, 06:57 AM
Ferrero had an ab strain, an injury that he's had more than once during his career. He also played wimbledon the next year, despite having his seed three spots below his ranking - or something like that.

NiciSunflower
06-21-2005, 07:19 AM
Frankly, I don't give a damn about claycourters skipping grass, they wouldn't have given a higher profile or level or whatsoever to grass matches at all, so who cares?

But as Jogy said, they're always good for a laugh, imagine a match between Gaudio and Puerta on grass :haha: Would have loved to see that.

Neely
06-21-2005, 07:26 AM
Ferrero had an ab strain, an injury that he's had more than once during his career. He also played wimbledon the next year, despite having his seed three spots below his ranking - or something like that.
Sure, his injury could have been for real. I just remember that Ferrero's name was part of the Spanish Trio that was Top 16 that time and that threatened to skip Wimbledon in case the seeding procedure was not changed and that wrote an official letter to the ATP concerning the Wimbledon specific seedings.

Chloe le Bopper
06-21-2005, 07:29 AM
He may have pulled out anyways. But as far as I could tell, the injury was legit. He had no reason to fake it seeing as he was apparently considering being part of the boycott anyways.

Neely
07-13-2005, 04:19 PM
:tape: wow, this sounds like my speech, but as a note to all: it's not me :tape: :bolt:

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I've copied the posts adressing this question into this already existing thread.

David Kenzie
07-13-2005, 04:24 PM
The "entire" grasscourt season consists of only one important tournament, that means a tournament that all players are supposed to attend if their ranking permits. The other grass events are optional. Monte-Carlo however is a Master Series event, so all top players should attend.
Which "claycourter" are refering to for skipping Wimbledon ?

uNIVERSE mAN
07-13-2005, 04:26 PM
well this year it wasn't very respectful for the americans to skip monte carlo especially in light of Rainier's death who did a lot of good for tennis.

Fee
07-13-2005, 04:31 PM
Rebecca, its the famous MTF double standard. Gaston Gaudio is applauded for taking 4 weeks off to spend time with his family and prepare for the two clay tournaments that are held after Wimbledon, while American players (who show up for Rome and Hamburg) are ripped for missing Monte Carlo (one tournament). Yes, its a Masters series, but if you look at the rankings at the end of the year, just about every one of the Top 50 or so players skips at least one of the Masters Tournies. There have been other threads on this (many of them).

Other double standards you should look out for: if Andy yells at an umpire, its because he's a rude, obnoxious American. If anyone else does it, its because he's 'passionate' and 'colorful'. There are more, I'm sure others here will let you know what they are.

PamV
07-13-2005, 04:35 PM
I don't think the clay court players necessarily skip the grass season. They just tend to lose early at Wimbledon so you don't notice them. However, there were several clay court players at Halle and Wimbledon. It's not really bad for Americans to skip Monte Carlo. I've heard it said that Monte Carlo conflicts with some American tournaments, plus it's farther away time wise from RG. Americans no doubt, feel they can get their clay practice in at Rome and Hamburg.

I am more bothered that there are clay tournaments practically all year long, and hardly any grass tournaments at all.

Action Jackson
07-13-2005, 04:39 PM
Rebecca, its the famous MTF double standard. Gaston Gaudio is applauded for taking 4 weeks off to spend time with his family and prepare for the two clay tournaments that are held after Wimbledon, while American players (who show up for Rome and Hamburg) are ripped for missing Monte Carlo (one tournament).

Ok, since you love Wimbledon, would it be better if some of these players who don't give a crap about Wimbledon turn up and not care and just take the 1st round money and points, like a glorified tank?

Yes, like the same thing wouldn't happen, if the seasons were reversed.

Neely
07-13-2005, 04:42 PM
I am more bothered that there are clay tournaments practically all year long, and hardly any grass tournaments at all.
Thanks for stating this, I could hardly find a post of today to which I would agree more :worship: :)
As a grasscourt fan I also think like that.... and it's sad for me :sad:


But if you followed today's discussion of mine with George, the reason for that could be that grass is the most expensive surface and that's it's not practical anymore to install more grasscourt tournament to achieve a better and more balanced number of events on all four main surfaces. And it simply won't happen.

Action Jackson
07-13-2005, 04:45 PM
But if you followed today's discussion of mine with George, the reason for that is that grass is the most expensive surface and that's it's not practical anymore to install more grasscourt tournament to achieve a better and more balanced number of events on all four main surfaces. And it simply won't happen.

Is that right? Do you seriously actually want to know my views about it? I just posed reasons as to why it won't happen and not a personal preference, there is a difference. :)

stebs
07-13-2005, 06:24 PM
The thing about having more grass tournaments is that if you want to have the outdoors you have to have them in the summer and seeing as RG is only weeks before wimbledon there's no time then and having them after wimbledon would make wimbledon less special.

revolution
07-14-2005, 12:11 AM
Face it, Gaudio was out of order for skipping Wimbledon for no reason at all.
He 'faked' an injury and magically recovered in time for the clay events.
Time to do away with the post-Wimby clay events, or move them to pre-Roland Garros.
Same with Scud, who turned down an FO wildcard because it's clay. Just as bad as Gaudio.

And the US Open is my favourite tournament, before anyone asks.