A-Rod is standing still [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

A-Rod is standing still

JCF
06-09-2005, 10:37 AM
Since 2003 I honestly have not noticed much of an improvement at all with Roddick's game. In fact his serve seems a little less of a weapon than it once was. Sure he tries to volley now, and he has slightly improved that area of his game, but he will always be average in that area and overall it seems to me little progress has been made. And when i watch him play i don't see anything special anymore, at least in 2003 he was fresh, confident and wasn't choking. Nowdays he seems like an average player.

I hope he can win another slam but right now it seems quite unlikely.

Auscon
06-09-2005, 10:51 AM
Roddick on fast courts has little problem disposing of all but maybe a few players....and on any given day if those players (mainly Fed, Lleyton and Safin) are a bit out of touch, he'll have their number

For me, its tough to not see him winning another slam

Bilbo
06-09-2005, 11:45 AM
It's not that much of a surprise that he's dropping in the rankings. I was expecting that for 2005 and for me it's long time ago he was a top5 player.

Paialii
06-09-2005, 01:24 PM
Speaking of which, he's down in his match right now against someone (Karol Beck) he should have beaten in two:

6-2, 3-6, 1-2

He's serving. Extremely mad at himself; still hasn't been able to keep that temper down when he most needs to.

RodLo
06-09-2005, 01:38 PM
Maybe it's just a slump? :shrug: ;)

PamV
06-09-2005, 01:47 PM
Eurosport seems to be prasing his play against Beck today at Queens. They say Roddick was hitting some great drop shots.

Purple Rainbow
06-09-2005, 01:53 PM
Andy got a bit lucky in the end. Beck finishes with two double faults and an unforced error while leading 40-30 in a game that would have taken him to 5-5 in the third.

NicoFan
06-09-2005, 01:55 PM
I hope he starts to do better - I really like Andy. He's fun to watch, good personality, I think good for the game as a whole.

But he doesn't seem to improve. I don't understand - he has great coaches, everything. And he has the natural talent so he should be improving.

Hopefully he can figure it out, because while a Roger/Rafa rivalry is cool and great for tennis overall - a Roger/Rafa/Andy rivalry would be even better...

RodLo
06-09-2005, 02:05 PM
I hope he starts to do better - I really like Andy. He's fun to watch, good personality, I think good for the game as a whole.

But he doesn't seem to improve. I don't understand - he has great coaches, everything. And he has the natural talent so he should be improving.

Hopefully he can figure it out, because while a Roger/Rafa rivalry is cool and great for tennis overall - a Roger/Rafa/Andy rivalry would be even better...

Couldn't agree more. :yeah:

tennischick
06-09-2005, 02:09 PM
Eurosport seems to be prasing his play against Beck today at Queens. They say Roddick was hitting some great drop shots.
what does he think he's playing on, clay?

Neely
06-09-2005, 02:09 PM
Beck played a great match. He just lacked a bit of routine and coolness at the end to really finish off the good points at the net and maybe his arm also got a bit shaky in the deciding moments. If he had kept it together I'm sure he could have taken it into a final set shoot-out. Beck really mixed his game up very well, I couldn't say that Andy was playing badly at all. A close match today and Beck did a good job I think as I didn't see this match going to three sets before.

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 02:15 PM
Andy's game has improved a lot, a lot of aspects of his game technically have gotten a lot better. His movement is leaps and bounds better, so is his backhand and his net play, etc.

He's slipped mentally since he won the USO. That's my opinion, and I believe that much of his problem lately is mental.

nkhera1 started a thought-provoking thread in the Andy forum - anyone is welcome to participate, or at least read what we have said.

http://menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=38974

bad gambler
06-09-2005, 02:17 PM
beck had the yips on serve at the worst possible time, would have been an interesting match of he was able to force a TB

Fumus
06-09-2005, 02:17 PM
Crap now everyone is going to see I spelled Lieu wrong.

NATAS81
06-09-2005, 02:22 PM
Why do people talk junk without watching matches?

84% 1st serve points won today :retard:

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 02:23 PM
I watched the match on the BBC feed, Natas, Andy played like crap. The only reason he won the first set so easily was b/c Beck also played like crap. Maybe you shouldn't talk about matches you haven't seen either? lol.

NATAS81
06-09-2005, 02:23 PM
lol Good point :tape:

Winston's Human
06-09-2005, 02:59 PM
Eurosport seems to be prasing his play against Beck today at Queens. They say Roddick was hitting some great drop shots.

I thought it was Beck who was hitting the great drop shots?

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 02:59 PM
I thought it was Beck who was hitting the great drop shots?it was :scratch: Andy hit one nice one near the end of the match, that's it.

NicoFan
06-09-2005, 03:17 PM
Andy's game has improved a lot, a lot of aspects of his game technically have gotten a lot better. His movement is leaps and bounds better, so is his backhand and his net play, etc.

He's slipped mentally since he won the USO. That's my opinion, and I believe that much of his problem lately is mental.

nkhera1 started a thought-provoking thread in the Andy forum - anyone is welcome to participate, or at least read what we have said.

http://menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=38974

Read through the thread - a lot of good analysis.

I have to agree with the posters that say its all mental.

I know he likes to be home and be with his friends. I don't think working out is his most fun activity. But he's got to put those aside, and really get some discipline here (said with much kindness). He's young though still - I think we forget that.

And not to diss on Mardy, Taylor, Robby, etc. but I've never seen a group of guys that seem to have less hunger for the game. So much talent (and so much money thrown at them) and so very little results. I wish Andy wouldn't hang out with them so much. Andy should hang out with someone who really has the desire to win.

With the exception of James - no one can say bad things about James... :angel:

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 03:27 PM
And not to diss on Mardy, Taylor, Robby, etc. but I've never seen a group of guys that seem to have less hunger for the game. So much talent (and so much money thrown at them) and so very little results. I wish Andy wouldn't hang out with them so much. Andy should hang out with someone who really has the desire to win.From what I understand, Robby works very hard. His problem is more a lack of natural talent, IMO (there are people who will disagree with that strongly, I know). Taylor and Mardy, though, I agree with you, they aren't in good shape so they can't stay healthy so they can't ever get any momentum and can't ever seem to find good form anymore. Considering Blake has gotten his ranking up over 100 spots in just over a month, there's not much negative to say about his hard work and desire at the moment, so I agree with you there :)

But that said, I don't get the feeling that Andy hangs out with them on tour very much. They're friendly, yes, and sometimes they practice together (Andy hit with Robby for a long time before the start of Queens), maybe have dinner once in a while... but Andy also hit with ToJo and Grosjean too. I think that the "other guys" - James, Mardy, Robby, Taylor, also Jeff Morrison and a couple others... they hang out more I think. Andy kind of keeps to himself a little bit more, I think. He's also very very close with, and spends a LOT of time with, his team. I get the impression it's him, Doug, and Dean a lot of the time.

As I said in the thread I linked to on his forum, it is my belief that his problem is with self-induced pressure at this point. He wants to win another slam or big title so badly, he wants to improve on clay and beat the other top players so badly, etc., that he puts this immense pressure on himself and can't pull out a match when it gets tight. And because of this, he's lost some of that passion (hence my current avatar), and he doesn't seem like he's having fun out there anymore, at least not as often as he used to. We fans keep hoping that soon he will find that passion and that he can rekindle it somehow. He's been getting into his matches in Queens so far, so hopefully this is a good sign. Again, this is my opinion. Many others have offered just as plausible opinions but this one makes the most sense to me.

But what I do flat-out disagree with is that his game hasn't progressed at all, because I think that it very clearly has. But considering he had better results when his game was much more one-dimensional, it's obvious that the mental stuff is equally as important, if not even moreso.

Experimentee
06-09-2005, 03:28 PM
Beck is a great player, especially on grass so its not like its a huge shame to lose a set to him! As for Roddick I dont think his game is any worse, it is ok, it is just that he is not as confident as he was in 2003 when he had that great hardcourt season where he was unbeatable. You wouldnt really expect much improvement from that kind of form, in fact he can only go down from those heights.

NicoFan
06-09-2005, 03:41 PM
As I said in the thread I linked to on his forum, it is my belief that his problem is with self-induced pressure at this point. He wants to win another slam or big title so badly, he wants to improve on clay and beat the other top players so badly, etc., that he puts this immense pressure on himself and can't pull out a match when it gets tight. And because of this, he's lost some of that passion (hence my current avatar), and he doesn't seem like he's having fun out there anymore, at least not as often as he used to.

First, glad he really doesn't hang out with them.

I really like Andy but my beloved spanish speaking players keep me so busy don't have as much time as I'd like to follow Andy's career.

But what I do know of him, I definitely agree with you on the above. From the beginning some of his comments point to the fact that he feels pressured and sometimes its a problem for him. Plus I also think that when he lost to Roger at Wimbledon last year that it took a lot out of him. Somewhere in the back of Andy's mind I think he must feel that his best he can't beat Roger at Roger's best. (Speculating of course and could be completely wrong...lol!).

And yes, James is doing well in his comeback! Such a great guy and from my home state! :)

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 03:50 PM
First, glad he really doesn't hang out with them. That's only my speculation and from what I observed at the two small tournaments I went to last year when I saw the other guys together a lot and Andy never there. But, I could be wrong. It's just my perception.

But what I do know of him, I definitely agree with you on the above. From the beginning some of his comments point to the fact that he feels pressured and sometimes its a problem for him. Plus I also think that when he lost to Roger at Wimbledon last year that it took a lot out of him. Somewhere in the back of Andy's mind I think he must feel that his best he can't beat Roger at Roger's best. (Speculating of course and could be completely wrong...lol!). I've read this theory from a couple other people (one being Matt Cronin from Tennisreporters.net) and it certainly makes sense. However, I would argue that his problems started immediately after he won the USO. His fall 2003 indoor season I think can be somewhat ignored because he was just completely exhausted mentally and physically, so in 2004 he had issues right away.

While he was obviously just outplayed by Marat, he still had chances in that AO match where he may have been questionable mentally. but not that as much as a total mental breakdown in his match against Henman at Indian Wells, then he actually played some fantastic tennis in his two matches against Sweden in Davis Cup, but was then absolutely exhausted for Houston where I witnessed him burn out more and more every day through that tournament. We don't need to go into the rest of the clay season, of course, but his loss at RG in 2004 was just as mental as his loss there was this year. So I think it started before Wimbledon. Perhaps that loss where he actually had a real chance to win that match just exacerbated it and made it even WORSE. that surely makes sense. But he hasn't won a 5-setter since the 2003 Open, and his wins in matches that could either be considered "tough" or "big" are very few and far between. Perhaps getting out of the match today was a positive step.

And yes, James is doing well in his comeback! Such a great guy and from my home state! :):D:D:D:D

NYCtennisfan
06-09-2005, 04:04 PM
And not to diss on Mardy, Taylor, Robby, etc. but I've never seen a group of guys that seem to have less hunger for the game.

Maybe, or maybe it's because none of them are very good? Dent could be good but doesn't have a BH so when his first serve leaves him, he gets easily broken and then can't break back. But still, these just don't have it. People expect them to be very good just because they came after Agassi, Sampras, Courier, and Chang. I think Blake and Roddick were the ones with any real talent and Blake has had too many injuries to make it and might not have anyway. That leaves Roddick who has lost confidence in himself and still has more than a few fundamental weaknesses. I couldn't believe that he lost a set to Beck and was almost entering danger territory there at the end. Roddick should be blowing people Beck away.

Fumus
06-09-2005, 04:07 PM
From what I understand, Robby works very hard. His problem is more a lack of natural talent, IMO (there are people who will disagree with that strongly, I know)

Well, don't say anything too bad about Robby. You wouldn't want to offend any portent posters. ;)

Actually I think Robby is really talented. Robby just needs a coach, Robby's coach also coaches like 3 other people at the same time. I have met Robby before (at USO) and I have met his coach, his coach isn't the brightest guy. Robby would be great if he worked with Brad Gilbert type, because he just needs a game plan.

Robby needs to step inside the baseline more and use his forehand to dictate play...all in all he needs to make more shots. Robby depends on his speed too much for winning points. I mean, he just wants his natural ability/talent to win him points instead of constructing them himself. So it's not really a lack of talent more like a misuse of it.

Andy's problems are actually sorta similar, as of late Andy plays far too defensive to be effective against the top players. The problem is most players in the top ten can move better and hence defend better than Andy. Andy loses when he was to play someone like that. Andy needs to play more offense and make more shots. He can't win matches when he hits 2 aces, 6 winners, and 6 errors in a set. Andy needs to go for more, more often. Andy should try to average 6-10 aces a set, 1 or 2 dfs, have about 10-15 winners, and 8-10 errors in a set. That's a good set for Andy. That's the way I want Andy to play because when he's offensive there's only one man in the world that can beat Andy and even then Roger can have trouble with Andy when he plays like that on grass as we all noted last year. :)

NicoFan
06-09-2005, 04:19 PM
I've read this theory from a couple other people (one being Matt Cronin from Tennisreporters.net) and it certainly makes sense.

Glad to see I'm in good company! :)

About Houston - I was so thrilled with Andy's play at Houston. He lost some weight, was moving around the court well, I was really proud of the way he played, and thought shoot the boy is going to kick butt in Europe.

Shows how little I know...lol!

This summer I really want to concentrate on watching Andy during the summer matches on TV. And of course at the US Open. We need him in tennis at the top of his game. Not that it will help him...lol!.. but for myself, I just want to figure out what I think he needs to do.

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 04:23 PM
...I just want to figure out what I think he needs to do.my opinion? time for the sports psychologist.

NicoFan
06-09-2005, 04:26 PM
Maybe, or maybe it's because none of them are very good? Dent could be good but doesn't have a BH so when his first serve leaves him, he gets easily broken and then can't break back. But still, these just don't have it. People expect them to be very good just because they came after Agassi, Sampras, Courier, and Chang. I think Blake and Roddick were the ones with any real talent and Blake has had too many injuries to make it and might not have anyway. That leaves Roddick who has lost confidence in himself and still has more than a few fundamental weaknesses. I couldn't believe that he lost a set to Beck and was almost entering danger territory there at the end. Roddick should be blowing people Beck away.

I don't think any of them outside of Andy are up there with Andre, Pete, etc. etc.

But from what I've seen of both Mardy and Taylor have the talent to be in the top 20/15 in the world. Not top ten, but definitely should be winning more than they are. Mardy especially. But no hunger for the game. Taylor is a sweetie - hard to get annoyed with him, but really obviously needs to up the fitness level. And be more flexible in learning other parts of the game - he's so in love with his game, but its not a game that can be used to win consistently.

I don't know enough about Robby to comment except for the few times I've watched him, he hasn't really impressed me with natural ability.

James does have the ability but is always injured so I don't really know what he can do in the long run. And he lets his emotions get to him on court when things don't go well (alas, the same problem as my Nico... :sad: )

NicoFan
06-09-2005, 04:28 PM
my opinion? time for the sports psychologist.

Yup!

That goes for my favorite too.

Sometimes I think - forget the coach, get a sports psychologist to travel with you full time! ;)

Skyward
06-09-2005, 04:38 PM
Didn't Beck beat Henman last year on grass? I haven't seen Andy play for a long time, but if he really added some variety into his game, it'll take time to adjust. A sport psychologist won't give any answers.

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 04:42 PM
Yes he did, Beck is a good player and played very well today in the 2nd and 3rd sets.

Yes it will take Andy time to adjust. Absolutely. But how long? It's been over a year now since he really started making big improvements.

Plus, a sports psychologist isn't for "Answers," it's for help, it's to help find the root of the problem so that Andy (with the help of his team) can get past it. b/c we're all just speculating - who knows what the problem really is.

Fumus
06-09-2005, 04:56 PM
who knows what the problem really is.

Andy, and it's Andy's problem to solve. It's his choice, if it's important enough to him he will. :)

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 05:01 PM
Andy, and it's Andy's problem to solve. It's his choice, if it's important enough to him he will. :)I'm not convinced that he does know what's wrong.

Geniey2g
06-09-2005, 05:02 PM
I think this just about sums it all up:


A lot of us Roddick fans are beside ourselves, wondering where the old Andy of yesteryear went: the fearless, brash kid who took chances and fought like hell till the end. Andy has taken some bad losses in the past year and his confidence is obviously low as a result but every time we think he has it figured out, he loses yet another match that he should've won (or would've won, circa 2001-03). He came into Roland Garros with a fresh clay title under his belt, a new attitude, some new French clothes.

And yet it's still the same song and dance: He stands too far back from the baseline and isn't nearly as aggressive as he used to be, and then he loses the match. Doesn't he realize that when he plays aggressive/offensive, he wins matches, but when he's passive/defensive, he loses? This is exactly what happened during the Acasuso match. It is very frustrating to watch him make the same mistakes over and over again, and even more frustrating to listen to him say the same crap in interviews all the time: that he needs to "just work harder" and "hope things turn his way" and blah blah blah.

Does he even listen to himself? He has to make it happen, not hope for it to happen. He used to understand this. He used to be great at tiebreaks, converting break points, closing matches, etc. He used to be mentally stronger than this. He used to break cool records that he could be proud of. Now he's got a new record to add: first time in his career to squander a two-set lead! Does he need to see a sports shrink? Is there some kind of emergency intervention we can organize for him? We are worried about our guy. Please help us get our old Andy back. We miss him and he's too good a player to keep losing matches like this.
-- Signed, the Panicked Roddick Brigade

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 05:08 PM
I think that was written by one of our own ;)

jmp
06-09-2005, 05:10 PM
Some thoughts...

* Andy is not standing still. His game has improved quite a bit from his form in his fabulous 2003 run.

* What's been going on with Andy in 2004/2005 is cumulative - the tour is a grind, the pressure is immense (outside and inside). When he finished 2003 as #1 he immediately got a target on his back. People studied him, found his weaknesses and pounced.

* Yes, part of his current troubles are mental. I think strategy and tactics are important, too. I have heard some players say that if they play their games, they when. That works in some cases. But, I believe the top players know each other so well that they need to do something different, but, effective to get the edge. For example, Lleyton and Andy have a good thing going right now where Lleyton just slaps Andy around on court. BUT, Andy played a really special 1st set against Lleyton at AO '05. I commented at the time that Andy was employing a new strategy. Then he went away from it. He played raw and Lleyton got him. Then there was the three setter in IW that went to TB in every set. They were both VERY good. It came down to inches, luck, and guts. So, along with some mental fine tuning, Andy and Goldfine should devise plans to pick on one thing in a top player they want to take down and stick to it for the whole match. It needs to be something Andy can accomplish without leaving himself open that allows him to still play to his strengths.

I play the same hand full of opponents all the time and I study them. We try new things on each other all the time to get the edge.

* The American players have under achieved for various reasons. James has some mental issues. But, he fights like a pit bull. I'm pulling for him. I agree that Robby needs a dedicated coach. I don't know much about his hunger, though. I couldn't agree more with the fitness issues for Mardy and Taylor. On top of that, Mardy needs some head work to get out of the first round of majors. He has a pair of the most beautiful hands I've seen in his generation. I'd like to see more of it. Fitness/Movement + Confidence + Strong Serving + Those Hands = Mardy Success.

* Very nice avatar, NAT. :)

* bunk, you're so so close to 30,000 posts. :yeah: I can't wait. :yippee: I have a PARTAY thread in the Safin forum just waiting for you! :dance:

http://www.geocities.com/jamiemac@flash.net/General/DISCO_GirlOutline.gif

:haha:

NATAS81
06-09-2005, 05:11 PM
* Very nice avatar, NAT. :)

.geocities.com/jamiemac@flash.net/General/DISCO_GirlOutline.gif[/IMG]

:haha:
Goodrep? :p

Geniey2g
06-09-2005, 05:12 PM
I think that was written by one of our own ;)
lol, the a-rod brigade. And before i get into trouble, here's the link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jon_wertheim/06/07/post.french/3.html

jmp
06-09-2005, 05:14 PM
I'm not convinced that he does know what's wrong.

I agree here. He's going by feel and trial and error hoping to get the mojo back.

jmp
06-09-2005, 05:17 PM
Goodrep? :p

Are you rep begging? Here you go. :)

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 05:20 PM
lol, the a-rod brigade. And before i get into trouble, here's the link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/jon_wertheim/06/07/post.french/3.htmlNo no you won't get into trouble lol we know where it's from, it was posted the other day in the Andy forum. lol I'm just saying I'm pretty sure I know who wrote it ;)

jmp, I largely agree with your post.

A party for me in the Safin forum? LMAO why? I always forget to go there :o:smash:

liptea
06-09-2005, 05:26 PM
:ras: Stop dissing on Mardy. It's not his fault he lost his brain and body.

Geniey2g
06-09-2005, 05:28 PM
:ras: Stop dissing on Mardy. It's not his fault he lost his brain and body.
harsh!

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 05:28 PM
But Mardy has you, what else does he need? :hug:

jmp
06-09-2005, 05:32 PM
A party for me in the Safin forum? LMAO why? I always forget to go there :o:smash:

Remember me telling you what party animals we are? I created a general party thread! So, come on over and boogie down for your 30,000th! :D :banana:

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 05:38 PM
Remember me telling you what party animals we are? I created a general party thread! So, come on over and boogie down for your 30,000th! :D :banana::haha: will do ;) It'll be a while yet :p

Fumus
06-09-2005, 05:46 PM
I'm not convinced that he does know what's wrong.

He may not, but, I think he will figure it out on his own. Everyone has slumps and this isn't even a slump for Andy...it's just a semi-slump or failure to make better on pass results. Andy isn't wiggin' out on court like Marat and he isn't depressed, he's just had some bad results in big matches lately. How many people outside the top ten has he lost to on hc or grass in the past year...not too many.

I think that was written by one of our own

Was that ever confirmed?

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 06:01 PM
Was that ever confirmed?no, but I'd be willing to bet on it :)

NATAS81
06-09-2005, 06:04 PM
Are you rep begging? Here you go. :)
I don't rep beg, I post alot and rake them in as they come :p

the cat
06-09-2005, 06:07 PM
It all comes down to Andy's inability to play well in big matches in the last year. His very difficult Wimbledon final loss last year to Federer when he should have won was a real setback for Andy. :(

Fumus
06-09-2005, 06:09 PM
no, but I'd be willing to bet on it :)

Oh yea, you think it was Tangy the joyful tangerine?

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 06:16 PM
It all comes down to Andy's inability to play well in big matches in the last year. His very difficult Wimbledon final loss last year to Federer when he should have won was a real setback for Andy. :(I agree with this, but I'm suggesting that the problems started well before the Wimbledon final and that it goes back to him winning the USO. He lost several big and/or close matches last year before Wimbledon.

Winston's Human
06-09-2005, 06:25 PM
Yet again. Andy is the last American in the draw.

BiancaUL
06-09-2005, 06:30 PM
Unfortunately, that’s going to often be the case for at least the next few years. :o

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 06:39 PM
Unfortunately. :(

Gonzo Hates Me!
06-09-2005, 07:04 PM
Since 2003 I honestly have not noticed much of an improvement at all with Roddick's game. In fact his serve seems a little less of a weapon than it once was. Sure he tries to volley now, and he has slightly improved that area of his game, but he will always be average in that area and overall it seems to me little progress has been made. And when i watch him play i don't see anything special anymore, at least in 2003 he was fresh, confident and wasn't choking. Nowdays he seems like an average player.

I hope he can win another slam but right now it seems quite unlikely.

:worship:

I hope he starts to do better - I really like Andy. He's fun to watch, good personality, I think good for the game as a whole.

But he doesn't seem to improve. I don't understand - he has great coaches, everything. And he has the natural talent so he should be improving.

Hopefully he can figure it out, because while a Roger/Rafa rivalry is cool and great for tennis overall - a Roger/Rafa/Andy rivalry would be even better...

:worship:

all my sentiments!

Fumus
06-09-2005, 07:14 PM
:worship:



:worship:

all my sentiments!

All hail the Paris Hilton of the Facebook. :worship:

jmp
06-09-2005, 07:34 PM
It all comes down to Andy's inability to play well in big matches in the last year. His very difficult Wimbledon final loss last year to Federer when he should have won was a real setback for Andy. :(

I disagree on two points, the cat:

* Andy's difficulties were evident in AO. That was a close five setter and he couldn't force the issue. My man had 'The Look'. :D

* He should not have won Wimbledon. The 2nd (??) rain delay and Roger's ability to effectively change tactics shut down Andy's impressive power start. The momentum shift was obvious.

jmp
06-09-2005, 07:35 PM
:haha: will do ;) It'll be a while yet :p

I doubt it! :p hehe

EDIT: I doubt it will be a while. ;)

tangerine_dream
06-09-2005, 07:43 PM
I agree jmp. The AO match last year vs Safin was the beginning of Andy's downward slide and chipped away at his confidence. The Wimbledon loss exacerbated it and from then on, it was one disaster after another.

Interestingly enough, it was also your guy Safin at AO who chipped away at Roger's confidence and imo, I don't think Roger has been quite the same since. :(

&^%$#@ Russian :shout: :smash: :ras:

jmp
06-09-2005, 07:45 PM
&^%$#@ Russian :shout: :smash: :ras:

Thank you, thank you. I hope we can bring you many repeat performances! :devil:

Purple Rainbow
06-09-2005, 08:04 PM
Interestingly enough, it was also your guy Safin at AO who chipped away at Roger's confidence and imo, I don't think Roger has been quite the same since. :(


You're kidding right? Roger lost 2 matches since. Won three TMS events and if I'm not mistaken two other ATP tournaments. He reached the semifinal at Roland Garros and currently has the highest entry ranking points total ever at a staggering 6,980. But Roger has of course been a shadow of himself since the AO. :rolleyes:

Fumus
06-09-2005, 08:09 PM
You're kidding right? Roger lost 2 matches since. Won three TMS events and if I'm not mistaken two other ATP tournaments. He reached the semifinal at Roland Garros and currently has the highest entry ranking points total ever at a staggering 6,980. But Roger has of course been a shadow of himself since the AO. :rolleyes:

bla bla bla points are nuthin where are the slams?

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 08:17 PM
I agree jmp. The AO match last year vs Safin was the beginning of Andy's downward slide and chipped away at his confidence. The Wimbledon loss exacerbated it and from then on, it was one disaster after another.I disagreed with you on the Andy forum about this and I'll disagree again here :p I think it goes back to the USO... it just so happens that the match at the AO against Marat was the first big match he had played since then. He actually took a lot out of the AO match and really changed stuff for the next time he played Marat, etc. Aside from it being one more tough loss in a big match, I don't think that match was especially detrimental to him.

Purple Rainbow
06-09-2005, 08:18 PM
bla bla bla points are nuthin where are the slams?

http://www.bentsynapse.net/insults/images/feed_troll.jpg

Arggghh, I can't help it. I believe Federer has double the number of slams as your two favourite players combined. :rolleyes:

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 08:20 PM
Arggghh, I can't help it. I believe Federer has double the number of slams as your two favourite players combined. :rolleyes:Oops.... his favorite player has double the number of slams to Federer, actually.

Fumus
06-09-2005, 08:23 PM
http://www.bentsynapse.net/insults/images/feed_troll.jpg

Arggghh, I can't help it. I believe Federer has double the number of slams as your two favourite players combined. :rolleyes:

Aha. But this year Andy has the same number of slams as Federer. :)

Purple Rainbow
06-09-2005, 08:24 PM
Oops.... his favorite player has double the number of slams to Federer, actually.

Oh, didn't know he was an Agassi fan. He hasn't been rooting for the Old Master as often as he has for Roddick and Nadal lately.

bad gambler
06-09-2005, 08:33 PM
roddick v hewitt final at queens, bring it on :cool:

tangerine_dream
06-09-2005, 08:33 PM
You're kidding right? ... But Roger has of course been a shadow of himself since the AO. :rolleyes:
I didn't say he was a shadow of his former self. All I'm saying is that his confidence has been shaken a bit since his loss to Safin at AO.

I think it goes back to the USO... it just so happens that the match at the AO against Marat was the first big match he had played since then. He actually took a lot out of the AO match and really changed stuff for the next time he played Marat, etc. Aside from it being one more tough loss in a big match, I don't think that match was especially detrimental to him.
No, it's not one match that's detrimental but it did get the ball rolling and the dominoes began to fall. The fact that he's managed to beat Marat three times since is a great recovery on Andy's part. And I don't know if Andy considers the USO loss worse than the Wimbledon loss. Personally, I think Wimbledon did the most damage.

But here's the point I was trying to make before: Safin beat both Roger and Andy at AO while they were playing some great tennis. Losing to Rafa on clay, we can come up with excuses: it's not their favorite surface; Roger was playing like crap; Rafa's the new clay god, and the like. But losing to a player on a favored surface when you're playing pretty damn good will knock the wind out of you a bit more than losing on your worst surface. Again, JMO.

Purple Rainbow
06-09-2005, 08:38 PM
I didn't say he was a shadow of his former self. All I'm saying is that his confidence has been shaken a bit since his loss to Safin at AO.

The results speak for themselves, Roger's confidence hasn't been shaken.


No, it's not one match that's detrimental but it did get the ball rolling and the dominoes began to fall. The fact that he's managed to beat Marat three times since is a great recovery on Andy's part. And I don't know if Andy considers the USO loss worse than the Wimbledon loss. Personally, I think Wimbledon did the most damage.

But here's the point I was trying to make before: Safin beat both Roger and Andy at AO while they were playing some great tennis. Losing to Rafa on clay, we can come up with excuses: it's not their favorite surface; Roger was playing like crap; Rafa's the new clay god, and the like. But losing to a player on a favored surface when you're playing pretty damn good will knock the wind out of you a bit more than losing on your worst surface. Again, JMO.

IMHO, it's no disgrace to lose against Safin when he's playing his best. Safin is capable of playing flawless tennis and beating every player at any given time. Of course, I don't have to tell anybody that Safin is a notprious hadcase and that those perfect matches from Safin are very, very rare. If Marat does come up with the goods though, there's very little any player can do.

Skyward
06-09-2005, 08:51 PM
If a loss to Safin can shake someone's confidence, then they should probably look for a good physchologist. :devil: Marat is not Karlovic, for goodness sake.

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 09:12 PM
No, it's not one match that's detrimental but it did get the ball rolling and the dominoes began to fall. The fact that he's managed to beat Marat three times since is a great recovery on Andy's part. And I don't know if Andy considers the USO loss worse than the Wimbledon loss. Personally, I think Wimbledon did the most damage.Tangy, I'm talking about him WINNING the USO. Not when he lost last year, but when he WON. Yes, I know it's odd, but I think his winning the USO is what has partially caused his mental problems as of late (though he would certainly not be the first good player who had mental trouble for a while after winning his first slam.). I've explained it both here and the thread on Andy's forum, so I won't do it again but what I"m saying is that I don't agree that the AO loss is what got the ball rolling. I think it was already rolling at the end of 2003.

El Legenda
06-09-2005, 09:21 PM
cant roddick fans come up with something more original then A-Rod. everyone knows who the real a-rod is. ;)

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 09:29 PM
um his fans didn't do it, the press did. But, ok.

Seleshfan
06-09-2005, 09:30 PM
um his fans didn't do it, the press did. But, ok.

You can use what I have in my Av Deb. It's pronounced A-row, you know like J-Lo. :)

If not, may I suggest A-Dick?

avocadoe
06-09-2005, 09:32 PM
Tangy, I'm talking about him WINNING the USO. Not when he lost last year, but when he WON. Yes, I know it's odd, but I think his winning the USO is what has partially caused his mental problems as of late (though he would certainly not be the first good player who had mental trouble for a while after winning his first slam.). I've explained it both here and the thread on Andy's forum, so I won't do it again but what I"m saying is that I don't agree that the AO loss is what got the ball rolling. I think it was already rolling at the end of 2003.
I'm sorta in agreement that Andy's problems are to a large degree mental. (his game has improved, most notably his backhand and movement and revently his stick em volleys) He liked being the kid with potential, and since he won the USO has not really built on that sense we had then, that he'd win others. A sense he had, too. I think he is disappointed with his result, "a good year" he says but not a great one. His relationship with his Mom seems very close. I wonder about him and his Dad, how that is? He seems to need to really feel incommunion with another, a coach, trainer, like a kid more than a man, despite his saying that Dean let's him be in charge. I wonder if winning the big prize feels taboo to him. He superceded his brother because of talent maybe, but also because his brother developed a chronic back condition. Maybe the big wins feel like taking his Mom from his Dad, wanting to do that, but feeling queasy about it. He seems to almost bow down to Roger and his beautiful game, as if Roger is another taboo object you can't win. I am wondering what he makes of Nadal now, another star rising, a noisy supernova, very much his own person, and maybe more comfortable with blunt and joyous aggression I wonder how they will match up. Anyway, I know this is lengthy and doesn't have any answers, but enjoyed reading the thread and wanted to add to the speculation. Hope he finds a way fulfill his own dreams. He is a very sweet guy, like him better off court than on, would be glad to offer my services in trade for player box seat :)

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 09:43 PM
very interesting, avocadoe. I don't know if any of it is 'true' or not, since none of us know Andy that well, but it definitely makes sense.

oh, and Andy's very close to both his parents. And both his brothers. The jerk he is, he's actually a big homebody family man type who furnished a room in his house for his niece and nephew :) And you're right, he strikes me as the type who needs people around him. But at the same time, a small group of closely-connected people, all of whom he is very close to.

But anyway, I think it's mainly his own desire to back up the USO win. He admitted as such in a recent interview with the London Times. It's not media pressure that seems to bother him - he's handled that quite well since he was 17 - but it seems that almost like the more he wants something lately, the worse his loss seems to be. And because of all this, it seems like he's lost some of the PASSION he had for the game, that 'win-or-die' look in his eyes, and most notably, the swagger. Some journalist, I forget who it was now, said after he lost to Acasuso that it's almost like he's afraid to win these bigger matches. I think that kinda makes sense if you think about it.

Like I said, a lot of other players have had trouble mentally after winning their first slam, especially when it happened before the player was perhaps quite ready for it - in most recent memory I think of Marat, I think Pete was also affected for a while after he won the USO in 1990. And there are many more. So Andy just has to rekindle his love of tennis and passion for it, and also he needs to grind his way through a tough match or two and turn a corner, and I think he'll go back to where he was mentally for like most of 2003... at least, I really hope so:awww:

Seleshfan
06-09-2005, 09:43 PM
I think you are all missing the rather obvious. Andy's game has not been the same since he broke up with Mandy Moore. Heartbreak can wreak havoc on an athlete. Look at Mike Tyson's career after his divorce with Robin Givens.

avocadoe
06-09-2005, 09:49 PM
Debstah-I hope he gets the passion back too. Sometimes I wend through mazes when in fact it is simple. It is hard to win a slam after you win a slam. To do it agin. Roger had an unbelievable year that was gaining steam as Andy won his, and for a time has maybe taken the chance from him. He will have more chances. Let's wish him a long healthy career and many good things to come. I think he does miss having a woman, too, and yet, how hard to find the right one, who fits in with the rigors of an elite athlete's life.

liptea
06-09-2005, 10:01 PM
Mardy Fish year end number two, right under Carlos Moya.