why is monte carlo masters not given much recognition? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

why is monte carlo masters not given much recognition?

megadeth
06-06-2005, 05:22 AM
from my opinion, it's the least prioritized of the 9 masters series. and usually americans don't even play there. i wonder why...

Tennis Fool
06-06-2005, 05:32 AM
I think you've answered your own question ;)

It should be. It's the best teller of who wins the FO of the 3 claycourt masters. This year was no exception...

its.like.that
06-06-2005, 10:29 AM
from my opinion, it's the least prioritized of the 9 masters series. and usually americans don't even play there. i wonder why...
lol... who cares about the Americans? they can't play on clay, and Roddick aside, they have no one...

*Ljubica*
06-06-2005, 10:36 AM
To most of us outside America, Monte Carlo is the most prestigious Masters' event, and, as has been said before, produces more RG winners than any of the other clay court Masters.

bad gambler
06-06-2005, 10:40 AM
from my opinion, it\'s the least prioritized of the 9 masters series. and usually americans don\'t even play there. i wonder why...


why do you form that view on the basis of the number of americans that show up for it?

hey i got a joke, what is the difference between a sporting world championship held in the US as opposed to one in England?

England invite other countries to participate :p

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 10:41 AM
why do you form that view on the basis of the number of americans that show up for it?

hey i got a joke, what is the difference between a sporting world championship held in the US as opposed to one in England?

England invite other countries to participate :p

:worship:

Billy Moonshine
06-06-2005, 11:29 AM
This has been done to death.
Another excuse to dish out trendy anti americanism.
Maybe some of u may find it funny but its as bad as any form of racism.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 11:33 AM
This has been done to death.
Another excuse to dish out trendy anti americanism.
Maybe some of u may find it funny but its as bad as any form of racism.

It's not trendy and gamblers joke was not exactly serious.

It's ok to have a go at French crowds booing then?

bad gambler
06-06-2005, 11:50 AM
This has been done to death.
Another excuse to dish out trendy anti americanism.
Maybe some of u may find it funny but its as bad as any form of racism.


:lol: lighten up billy boy no one is being anti american here

the only serious part to my post was the question I posed about why the poster thought that the tournament was lacking because the americans were no shows

Billy Moonshine
06-06-2005, 12:04 PM
OK BG, I apologise 4 my overreaction :)

GWH, stop telling people what is and what isn't, u mtf bore!

buddyholly
06-06-2005, 02:12 PM
hey i got a joke, what is the difference between a sporting world championship held in the US as opposed to one in England?

England invite other countries to participate :p

I always refer to baseball finals as the "National Club Championships.'' My American friends say that no-one else could compete anyway, but I sure would like to see the Dominican Republic v US.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 02:15 PM
OK BG, I apologise 4 my overreaction :)

GWH, stop telling people what is and what isn't, u mtf bore!

Overreacting again I see, it's an honour from someone of your status to call me a bore.

Fumus
06-06-2005, 03:41 PM
I think the real reason no one plays there is because it is soo close to Miami MS. The conditions suck there as well, but, I don't think that factors when people decide whether or not to play there.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 03:44 PM
I think the real reason no one plays there is because it is soo close to Miami MS. The conditions suck there as well, but, I don't think that factors when people decide whether or not to play there.

How do the conditons suck when they are the closest to RG out of any of the clay events?

Fumus
06-06-2005, 03:48 PM
How do the conditons suck when they are the closest to RG out of any of the clay events?

Well, it's right by the sea. The cool ocean breeze blows in, so it's windy, cold, heavy and wet.

It's definitly not sunny and calm... :)

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 03:49 PM
Well, it's right by the sea. The cool ocean breeze blows in, so it's windy, cold, heavy and wet.

It's definitly not sunny and calm... :)

Hahaha, that's funny considering Monaco is actually one of the sunniest places on the coast and this year was the exception and not the norm.

Monte Carlo and Hamburg are not the same place. :)

Fumus
06-06-2005, 03:52 PM
Hahaha, that's funny considering Monaco is actually one of the sunniest places on the coast and this year was the exception and not the norm.

Monte Carlo and Hamburg are not the same place. :)

Hamburg isn't windy, why do you think Roger likes it so much. It's just slow so the ball doesn't take as true of a bounce.

It can be sunny, but the courts are right by the ocean. The air blows in causing rain, mist, wind. All the fun stuff tennis players love.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 03:55 PM
Hamburg isn't windy, why do you think Roger likes it so much. It's just slow so the ball doesn't take as true of a bounce.

It can be sunny, but the courts are right by the ocean. The air blows in causing rain, mist, wind. All the fun stuff tennis players love.

Hamburg is on the River Elbe it does get windy, and since Roger plays on big courts and they have a roof, so it's indoors a lot of the time.

There isn't mist there, a sea breeze yes, but mist you have got the wrong place, it's not Belgium or the Netherlands at that time of year where they are playing these courts.

Fumus
06-06-2005, 03:59 PM
Hamburg is on the River Elbe it does get windy, and since Roger plays on big courts and they have a roof, so it's indoors a lot of the time.

There isn't mist there, a sea breeze yes, but mist you have got the wrong place, it's not Belgium or the Netherlands at that time of year where they are playing these courts.

It's not like a fog over the courts kinda mist. I just mean in general there is more moisture in the air. It's pretty windy....this year and last year there were a number of matches that were either rained out or simply just played in drizzle or rain. It was my understanding from John Barret(commentator) that the location by sea causes shifts to inclimate weather on a dime.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 04:04 PM
It's not like a fog over the courts kinda mist. I just mean in general there is more moisture in the air. It's pretty windy....this year and last year there were a number of matches that were either rained out or simply just played in drizzle or rain. It was my understanding from John Barret(commentator) that the location by sea causes shifts to inclimate weather on a dime.

Well as I said sea breeze and that happens with most events that are located that close to the water, including the great Umag and Bĺstad have that problem.

Last year was the worst summer in Europe for years and there was inclement weather in many places. This year wasn't that bad, they got a 5 set final, it happened one year when it was only 3 sets.

Considering Monte Carlo is the closest in weather, court conditions and facilities and respected by the majority of players, if players are serious about doing well at RG, they play there.

There are many different factors that cause weather changes, it depends on winds, the tides meeting at a certain point. Barrett has said that Monte Carlo is the closest to RG and if you look at my TMS thread which produces the most RG champs, you'll see that.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 04:25 PM
I think the surface closest to the one at RG can be found at Halle. ;)

Alright but seriously, well as far as the surface and the way the clay there plays then alright I can agree on that. I mean it's not kept up as well as the stuff at RG, I can't tell you how many times the players complain about the bad bounces on the those courts. Players having success there and players winning at RG doesn't imply similar surface. Coria and Nadal made the finals at Miami too...does that make that a surface similar?

How is Miami relevant when it's not the same surface whereas RG and Monte Carlo are? Well one difference the lines are painted on at RG and they are not on the other claycourts and Monte Carlo does get more usage during the year than RG. This being the case that it is the closest conditions to RG and historically players that have performed well in Monte Carlo have done better than the ones at Rome and Hamburg, it's not always the case, but higher percentages do it.


I orginally said players don't play there because of the fact that it is close to the Miami MS. Then I followed that up by saying that the weather and conditions there suck but, that's not why poeple don't play there. I didnt say the surface wasn't similar to RG or that that tournement wasn't an integral factor for players to get a foot hold on the clay court season.

You do know where Monte Carlo is located? Yes, I thought so. Miami bit well that is subjective to an extent, but the weather isn't an issue and the conditions in Rome are worse than Monte Carlo, but the weather is warmer.

Dr. Laborious
06-06-2005, 04:39 PM
Hmmm... let's see...

Nadal - played Monte Carlo (winner)
Puerta - played Monte Carlo (3rd round)
Federer - played Monte Carlo (QF)
Davydenko - played Monte Carlo (3rd round)
Robredo - I think he was injured
Hanescu - played Monte Carlo (3rd round)
Ferrer - played Monte Carlo (QF)
Canas - played Monte Carlo (2nd round)
Moya - played Monte Carlo (1st round)
Coria - played Monte Carlo (final)
Gaudio - played Monte Carlo (QF)
Nalbandian - injured?
Grosjean - Frenchman believes Houston is more important than Monte Carlo... although he probably would have had to play qualifiers
Acasuso - lost to Hanescu in qualifying
Safin - played Monte Carlo (3rd round)
Kiefer - played Monte Carlo (2nd round)

I could go on, but I think I've already made my point.

The Monte Carlo quarterfinalists missing from that list are Ferrero, Volandri (got injured at RG) and Gasquet. What exactly do u mean when you say Monte Carlo isn't given much recognition?

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 04:41 PM
I could go on, but I think I've already made my point.

The Monte Carlo quarterfinalists missing from that list are Ferrero, Volandri (got injured at RG) and Gasquet. What exactly do u mean when you say Monte Carlo isn't given much recognition?

I think it's the fact that the Americans couldn't be bothered playing there.

It has respect and recognition among the people that matter, and sadly that's not any of us here.

Fumus
06-06-2005, 04:41 PM
How is Miami relevant when it's not the same surface whereas RG and Monte Carlo are? Well one difference the lines are painted on at RG and they are not on the other claycourts and Monte Carlo does get more usage during the year than RG. This being the case that it is the closest conditions to RG and historically players that have performed well in Monte Carlo have done better than the ones at Rome and Hamburg, it's not always the case, but higher percentages do it.


You do know where Monte Carlo is located? Yes, I thought so. Miami bit well that is subjective to an extent, but the weather isn't an issue and the conditions in Rome are worse than Monte Carlo, but the weather is warmer.

I reposted the same thing differently because I thought that it didn't post what I wrote. I checked and it wasn't there. Then when I posted the new post it magically appeared so I deleted them both.

My point about Miami is simply that you can't make the case that conditions are similar by saying that players who have success at place X also have success at place Y, therefore the conditions are similar. What does MC having similar conditions to RG have to with MC having good conditions in the first place?

So you would say the condintions at MC are good? I would say they are colder, windy and more wet but that's my opinion I don't have any charts or graphs to prove my thoughts scientifically so I guess I will leave it at that.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 04:49 PM
My point about Miami is simply that you can't make the case that conditions are similar by saying that players who have success at place X also have success at place Y, therefore the conditions are similar. What does MC having similar conditions to RG have to with MC having good conditions in the first place?

Considering I did state that it was surface specific when using MC and RG that is definitely more to go on than Miami for one as the surfaces aren't the same.

Did I say the conditions were great? No, what it was that MC has the closest conditions to RG in reference to the surface speed and as for bad bounces they happen on all clay courts, so Coria whining about a bad bounce isn't good enough, and there hasn't been a huge collective player whine about how bad they are.

So you would say the condintions at MC are good? I would say they are colder, windy and more wet but that's my opinion I don't have any charts or graphs to prove my thoughts scientifically so I guess I will leave it at that.

How many years have you seen the MC event? You must not have seen the year Becker almost won it, it was everything but cold, windy and rainy. The weather in Paris fluctuates and that was clearly shown in the tournament. Considering when they are played has an effect as well, but poor weather and facilities are very minor issues and don't effect Monte Carlo.

Fumus
06-06-2005, 04:56 PM
Considering I did state that it was surface specific when using MC and RG that is definitely more to go on than Miami for one as the surfaces aren't the same.

Did I say the conditions were great? No, what it was that MC has the closest conditions to RG in reference to the surface speed and as for bad bounces they happen on all clay courts, so Coria whining about a bad bounce isn't good enough, and there hasn't been a huge collective player whine about how bad they are.

How many years have you seen the MC event? You must not have seen the year Becker almost won it, it was everything but cold, windy and rainy. The weather in Paris fluctuates and that was clearly shown in the tournament. Considering when they are played has an effect as well, but poor weather and facilities are very minor issues and don't effect Monte Carlo.

haha..yes yes yes. I have only watched the event for the last two years. The conditions not being great is what I was arguing about, it's the only thing I have said about this matter.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 05:00 PM
haha..yes yes yes. I have only watched the event for the last two years. The conditions not being great is what I was arguing about, it's the only thing I have said about this matter.

I mean the late Prince Rainier didn't ever want Monaco to look bad, so the players got looked after I mean it shouldn't be better than RG, but it's good enough for the important players on the surface to be there.

Fumus
06-06-2005, 05:02 PM
I mean the late Prince Rainier didn't ever want Monaco to look bad, so the players got looked after I mean it shouldn't be better than RG, but it's good enough for the important players on the surface to be there.

Yea, all the important guys are there. I don't consider the American guys important guys on that surface.

Action Jackson
06-06-2005, 05:03 PM
Yea, all the important guys are there. I don't consider the American guys important guys on that surface.

They have 3 other ones to do well at, but the facts are that your boy who is one of the elite players for sure does need to be less of a homer.

Fumus
06-06-2005, 05:10 PM
They have 3 other ones to do well at, but the facts are that your boy who is one of the elite players for sure does need to be less of a homer.

Homer was blind but he did write some fantastic stories. My boy is learning, he's just got to read a book about point construction and defense, he'll be ok.

I just realized the flaw in this thread, is not titled correctly, MC is given recognition by all the important clay players. It's just not given recogntion by the Americans. I feel so stupid now..lol

Jenrios
06-06-2005, 07:51 PM
I've been to the Monte Carlo Masters twice - and it's one of my fav tournaments to watch. There's a lovely 'feel' to the tournament. I don't think it's disrespected outside the uS - and to be honest, if the like of Roddick and Agassi want to stay away, that's fine by me:)

Jenrios
06-06-2005, 07:54 PM
and the times I've been there, I've come back with a lovely sun tan:)

PamV
06-07-2005, 01:31 AM
from my opinion, it's the least prioritized of the 9 masters series. and usually americans don't even play there. i wonder why...

IW and Miami are back to back. Then right after comes Monte Carlo. It is too much of a grind for the top players to make all 3. That's at least one reason.

I have read that next year the Houston Clay tournament dates will be changed to allow Americans to go to Monte Carlo. I don't get that because that little Houston tournament wasn't what stopped any Americans from going to Monte Carlo.

I am rather mad that there are no Masters Series on Grass. Is that fair?

megadeth
06-07-2005, 01:44 AM
there should be a masters on grass! the schedule is really messed up1 they should align it with reasonable timelines in between the big events. they should avoid having back to back masters such as indian wells-miami/ toronto-cincy/ rome-hamburg

they should talk with the organizers of these events to make the scheduling less cumbersome to players so that they won't complain when players don't join due to injury...

Ace Tracker
06-07-2005, 03:12 AM
I have read that next year the Houston Clay tournament dates will be changed to allow Americans to go to Monte Carlo. I don't get that because that little Houston tournament wasn't what stopped any Americans from going to Monte Carlo

I think that's one of the main reasons... Roddick has been extremely loyal to Jim McMattress, which is very considerate from him, but it might have been hurting his preparation for Roland Garros...if Houston changes dates, that will allow Andy to at least have a choice in terms of leaving earlier for Europe or not... winning Houston has not meant success for Andy on the terre batue of Paris in the past years... Andy might never be a threat for the Roland Garros crown (never say never), but skipping Monte Carlo out has certainly not helped his cause so far...

Action Jackson
06-07-2005, 06:35 AM
and the times I've been there, I've come back with a lovely sun tan:)

Come I thought that was from the Welsh valleys that tan.