Hate to bring up this thread, especially after Roddick's dissappointing loss but... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Hate to bring up this thread, especially after Roddick's dissappointing loss but...

nkhera1
05-27-2005, 09:46 PM
I hate to bring this thread up, especially with the dissappointing loss he had yesterday and how everyone is just trying to get through it, but here is my opinion on Roddick's game. I haven't watched him too much, but I've made a few conclusions which I would like for you guys to correct me and add your own opinions. Roddick's game needs some serious improvement if he ever wants to be number 1 again. I thought this deserved its own thread because I wanted to get everyone’s opinion. Also I'm not here to bash Roddick as he is my favorite player.

1. Forehand- If you guys have noticed he has started to cut down on his swing because his older swing took a long time to go through. I feel this is a good move, but that he isn't getting the same amount of power as he used to. Now I may be wrong on this but it seems like now since he has shortened his backswing he has lost some of his power because he doesn't have the same racket acceleration as Federer and others. Don't get me wrong he still hits it pretty hard, but I don't know if it is as hard as before. Of course everyone knows placement is sometimes more important than speed but when he was doing really well, he was really blasting the forehand. Please correct me on this if I am wrong. Also if you noticed his forehand in his matches at Roland Garros, they had a lot of topspin, but they weren't that deep and they didn't move through the clay that well like Nadals does. I don't think he had to change his game that much for clay. All he needed was better movement, thinking, and patience because nobody changes their game that much for each surface.
2. Backhand- This has always been a problem. I think the problem is Roddick's form. He needs to bend his elbows in order to hit better backhands. Roddick needs to work on his hitting his backhand deeper and hitting his backhand down the line because this really affects the rest of his game especially when he has to keep running around.
3. Volleys-these are improving but they can always get better. I don't know why but Roddick likes to hit shots straight at people to much especially while he is at the net when he should go for the other side. Also his approach shots are sometimes not the greatest and he comes in during bad times.
4. Serve- I know he was sacrificing power for accuracy but now it has gotten a bit out of hand before he was sacrificing accuracy for power and he needs to find the right balance. He should never be outaced that badly by anyone especially a clay courter though Acususo had a good serve.
5. Fitness Mentally/Physically- His fitness physically is pretty good but it can always get better. He needs to work mentally more. It seems like he doesn't have enjoy the game as much and it seems like he has self doubts. He can't close out a match and he can't even win tiebreakers anymore. Tiebreaks are made for bigger serves because they can afford to be aggressive on the opponents service which leads me to my next point. Also Roddick never seems to have a plan besides hitting it hard, but he didn't even do that here at Roland Garros. Roddick needs to be aggressive. He can't be defensive because he doesn't have the fitness for that. Also Roddick doesn't adjust that well during a match. I don't know how many times he hit a second serve or shot to Acususo's backhand when he should have tried hitting them to the forehand to see what it could do.
6. Service return-why does Roddick stand so far back? He can do it once in a while, but now it has become a habit. Roddick also needs to be handle first serves and second serves better and he should be more aggressive on those instead of just waiting for his own service game because he relies on his service game too much and as shown his service game is starting to become a little unreliable.
7. Roddick needs to stand closer to the baseline. I realize it was a quick fix with Gilbert and that they were going to work on this in the winter, but Roddick stands too far back which makes his shots less effective.

Deboogle!.
05-27-2005, 10:18 PM
Also if you noticed his forehand in his matches at Roland Garros, they had a lot of topspin, but they weren't that deep and they didn't move through the clay that well like Nadals does. I don't think he had to change his game that much for clay. All he needed was better movement, thinking, and patience because nobody changes their game that much for each surface.Apparently this was intentional. Well, perhaps not intentional to make it not as deep, but intentional to put more spin on - they added some weight all around his racquet for the clay season. So, while I don't disagree with you, I'd like to reserve more judgment until we see what he does at grass season
2. Backhand- This has always been a problem. I think the problem is Roddick's form. He needs to bend his elbows in order to hit better backhands. Roddick needs to work on his hitting his backhand deeper and hitting his backhand down the line because this really affects the rest of his game especially when he has to keep running around.I forget which tourney it was but at some point last year, commentators were talking about his backhand and how it's too late to completely change it. Sure, he can improve it (and he definitely has) and sure, there can always be more work to be done, but he's never going to have a great backhand. I think that's just a reality. But definitely he needs to keep improving it, and I think that he has.
3. Volleys-these are improving but they can always get better. I don't know why but Roddick likes to hit shots straight at people to much especially while he is at the net when he should go for the other side. Also his approach shots are sometimes not the greatest and he comes in during bad times.YES. going right back at his opponent. I can't count how many times yesterday during his match some of us in a little MSN chat were like "OMG ANDY DO NOT GO SIDE TO SIDE GO BACK BEHIND HIM" - so I think he could work on this both in his volleys and groundstrokes in general. His volleys are probably the most improved part of his game, and I cannot wait to see it all come together on grass! No, his net instincts are not great yet, and he knows this, he's said it. But it's still a work in progress. What makes me happy is that he's visibly improving. It won't be wonderful immediately, but there's progress being made, for sure.
4. Serve- I know he was sacrificing power for accuracy but now it has gotten a bit out of hand before he was sacrificing accuracy for power and he needs to find the right balance. He should never be outaced that badly by anyone especially a clay courter though Acususo had a good serve. Yes, I agree. Again, let's see what he does on grass. He needs to strike a nice balance. He averages well over 60% first serves for the season and for someone with a serve like his, that is fantastic. He needs to keep working on finding the right balance of power and accuracy and also mixing it up and varying it.
5. Fitness Mentally/Physically- His fitness physically is pretty good but it can always get better.Absolutely - and it's obvious that he has put in a lot of off-court work in the past few months. He's never moved better and never looked fitter. So of course, he needs to continue working, but he's undeniably moving in the right direction where this is concerned. He needs to work mentally more. It seems like he doesn't have enjoy the game as much and it seems like he has self doubts. He can't close out a match and he can't even win tiebreakers anymore. Tiebreaks are made for bigger serves because they can afford to be aggressive on the opponents service which leads me to my next point. Also Roddick never seems to have a plan besides hitting it hard, but he didn't even do that here at Roland Garros. Roddick needs to be aggressive. He can't be defensive because he doesn't have the fitness for that. Also Roddick doesn't adjust that well during a match. I don't know how many times he hit a second serve or shot to Acususo's backhand when he should have tried hitting them to the forehand to see what it could do.Well, yes, I think this is where the VAST majority of his problems are. I mean, look what he did in 2003 - he had a FANTASTIC year - with a much less complete game than he did now! But he was striking the right balance of excitement and passion but also calm and business-like... he hasn't had that since the USO more than a little bit here or there (and mostly in small tourneys which are simply not as important). I mean, definitely. I maintain that it's time to see a sports psychologist... it can't hurt.
6. Service return-why does Roddick stand so far back? He can do it once in a while, but now it has become a habit. Roddick also needs to be handle first serves and second serves better and he should be more aggressive on those instead of just waiting for his own service game because he relies on his service game too much and as shown his service game is starting to become a little unreliable.He's not naturally as coordinated as someone like Agassi or Nalbandian or whoever, who is able to take the ball really early and be aggressive. He's gotten better, but I agree that he stands too far back sometimes.
7. Roddick needs to stand closer to the baseline. I realize it was a quick fix with Gilbert and that they were going to work on this in the winter, but Roddick stands too far back which makes his shots less effective. It wasn't a quick fix with Gilbert - even Brad said yesterday that Andy was used to standing way far back when he was a teenager before he had his growth spurt - it's something he did before Brad and Brad didn't do anything to help this. I remember at the beginning of this season, Dean said that this stepping in and being overall more aggressive off the ground was one of the main things he wanted to work on with Andy. It seems they haven't really successfully worked on this yet. But it's also something that's mostly something natural, the ability to take the ball earlier, and I think it will take Andy a LONG time to improve in this department.

Overall, I'm looking forward to the grass season to see if they can at all use what happened in the clay season and stuff to change it. I know grass is completely differnet from clay, but there are things they can take from it to use to help from now on even on other surfaces. I mean, Dean sits there and writes down what happens almost every single point in every single match. I sure hope that's good for SOMETHING!!!!

But I still maintain that at THIS point, the biggest problem is mental stuff. We know that when he's REALLY confident and REALLY mentally focused, he is very tough to beat, even with an incomplete game. So now that he has a more complete game, if he can get his head all together, he ought to be very tough to beat.

MisterQ
05-27-2005, 11:12 PM
Excuse me, this is the Roddick forum, could you please take your tennis talk somewhere else? :mad:

jk ;)

Great points, nkhera. :)

I hate to bring this thread up, especially with the dissappointing loss he had yesterday and how everyone is just trying to get through it, but here is my opinion on Roddick's game. I haven't watched him too much, but I've made a few conclusions which I would like for you guys to correct me and add your own opinions. Roddick's game needs some serious improvement if he ever wants to be number 1 again. I thought this deserved its own thread because I wanted to get everyone’s opinion. Also I'm not here to bash Roddick as he is my favorite player.

1. Forehand- If you guys have noticed he has started to cut down on his swing because his older swing took a long time to go through. I feel this is a good move, but that he isn't getting the same amount of power as he used to. Now I may be wrong on this but it seems like now since he has shortened his backswing he has lost some of his power because he doesn't have the same racket acceleration as Federer and others. Don't get me wrong he still hits it pretty hard, but I don't know if it is as hard as before. Of course everyone knows placement is sometimes more important than speed but when he was doing really well, he was really blasting the forehand. Please correct me on this if I am wrong. Also if you noticed his forehand in his matches at Roland Garros, they had a lot of topspin, but they weren't that deep and they didn't move through the clay that well like Nadals does. I don't think he had to change his game that much for clay. All he needed was better movement, thinking, and patience because nobody changes their game that much for each surface.

I agree, I think this has contributed to some loss of power. Now, if this were coupled with taking the ball a little earlier, it would be well worth it! And with taking the ball early would come a willingness to stand further inside the court. And indeed, he was doing some of these things in the first two sets against Acacuso. I think when you are scared and under pressure it is very hard not to fall back into old patterns that are comfortable. I know I do it, and I'm sure even pros have this issue. And thus, Andy began to back up, and put himself at a positional disadvantage in the later parts of the match. I really think he can learn from this match, because it is a great lesson in what works well and what doesn't. AFTER the sting wears off, of course!

2. Backhand- This has always been a problem. I think the problem is Roddick's form. He needs to bend his elbows in order to hit better backhands. Roddick needs to work on his hitting his backhand deeper and hitting his backhand down the line because this really affects the rest of his game especially when he has to keep running around.

I wonder how hard it would be to bend his elbows more at this point. That would help him with power, but of course it is a pretty big change to make. His technique definitely doesn't generate power very effectively. If his technique lessened power but gave him the consistency of Hewitt, that would be one thing. But we all know that is not the case. :lol: I can't put my finger on it, but there seems to be some disconnect between his core (torso/abdomen) and the arms, too. I mean, I don't see the energy flowing simply and efficiently from the legs through the trunk through the arms and wrist into the ball, like with Agassi or Safin. Sometimes it really looks like he is just slapping at it.


3. Volleys-these are improving but they can always get better. I don't know why but Roddick likes to hit shots straight at people to much especially while he is at the net when he should go for the other side. Also his approach shots are sometimes not the greatest and he comes in during bad times.

Not much to add. Some of his choices are getting smarter. He was wise to serve and volley when his opponent was standing far behind the service line and was pulled wide on the return. But when he is nervous, sometimes he comes in behind a very weak shot and totally underestimates the skill and speed of his opponent.


4. Serve- I know he was sacrificing power for accuracy but now it has gotten a bit out of hand before he was sacrificing accuracy for power and he needs to find the right balance. He should never be outaced that badly by anyone especially a clay courter though Acususo had a good serve.

Actually, I don't think the ace count is so important, as long as he is holding serve well. Which he was, in the first 2.75 sets. ;)


5. Fitness Mentally/Physically- His fitness physically is pretty good but it can always get better. He needs to work mentally more. It seems like he doesn't have enjoy the game as much and it seems like he has self doubts. He can't close out a match and he can't even win tiebreakers anymore. Tiebreaks are made for bigger serves because they can afford to be aggressive on the opponents service which leads me to my next point. Also Roddick never seems to have a plan besides hitting it hard, but he didn't even do that here at Roland Garros. Roddick needs to be aggressive. He can't be defensive because he doesn't have the fitness for that. Also Roddick doesn't adjust that well during a match. I don't know how many times he hit a second serve or shot to Acususo's backhand when he should have tried hitting them to the forehand to see what it could do.

I don't know what to say about this. He's a mess mentally. However, I still have faith that he can get over these hurdles. A Wimbledon win would do the trick. :lol:


6. Service return-why does Roddick stand so far back? He can do it once in a while, but now it has become a habit. Roddick also needs to be handle first serves and second serves better and he should be more aggressive on those instead of just waiting for his own service game because he relies on his service game too much and as shown his service game is starting to become a little unreliable.

How wise it is to stand back depends a bit on whom is he playing... but I basically agree.


7. Roddick needs to stand closer to the baseline. I realize it was a quick fix with Gilbert and that they were going to work on this in the winter, but Roddick stands too far back which makes his shots less effective.

Agreed --- (see No. 1) :)

I like your comments. I would also add that he should consider making the topspin lob a bigger part of his repertoire, especially if he is going to stand way back against players who come to the net. So many times he just hit it right into the racket of his opponent, and he was so far back that there was no chance of surprising or confusing the opponent, no matter how hard he hit the ball.

Jennay
05-28-2005, 12:03 AM
1. Forehand- If you guys have noticed he has started to cut down on his swing because his older swing took a long time to go through. I feel this is a good move, but that he isn't getting the same amount of power as he used to. Now I may be wrong on this but it seems like now since he has shortened his backswing he has lost some of his power because he doesn't have the same racket acceleration as Federer and others. Don't get me wrong he still hits it pretty hard, but I don't know if it is as hard as before. Of course everyone knows placement is sometimes more important than speed but when he was doing really well, he was really blasting the forehand. Please correct me on this if I am wrong. Also if you noticed his forehand in his matches at Roland Garros, they had a lot of topspin, but they weren't that deep and they didn't move through the clay that well like Nadals does. I don't think he had to change his game that much for clay. All he needed was better movement, thinking, and patience because nobody changes their game that much for each surface.
I think the reason his forehands look less powerful is because of his court position. He stands so far behind the baseline, even after he returns the ball. The amount of topspin he is using is keeping it inside the court, but I don't feel like he's hitting through the ball to give it enough depth.
2. Backhand- This has always been a problem. I think the problem is Roddick's form. He needs to bend his elbows in order to hit better backhands. Roddick needs to work on his hitting his backhand deeper and hitting his backhand down the line because this really affects the rest of his game especially when he has to keep running around.
I agree about his form. One thing I have noticed is that Andy lifts his head before he is completely through with his stoke, so that causes the ball to fly on him. Another thing is he isn't bending enough. Also, he should really turn into his shot, instead of facing the ball and slapping it, if you get what I'm saying.
3. Volleys-these are improving but they can always get better. I don't know why but Roddick likes to hit shots straight at people to much especially while he is at the net when he should go for the other side. Also his approach shots are sometimes not the greatest and he comes in during bad times.
I dislike when Andy comes into the net off of a slice. It's very predictable to know that your opponent will get down low and curve it right past you. Imo, when Andy comes into the net he should flatten out his shot, whether it be forehand or backhand; and yes I agree, he should stop hitting to his opponent. I think Andy needs to try drop-volleying and going behind his opponent.
4. Serve- I know he was sacrificing power for accuracy but now it has gotten a bit out of hand before he was sacrificing accuracy for power and he needs to find the right balance. He should never be outaced that badly by anyone especially a clay courter though Acususo had a good serve.
He's double-faulting too much.
5. Fitness Mentally/Physically- His fitness physically is pretty good but it can always get better. He needs to work mentally more. It seems like he doesn't have enjoy the game as much and it seems like he has self doubts. He can't close out a match and he can't even win tiebreakers anymore. Tiebreaks are made for bigger serves because they can afford to be aggressive on the opponents service which leads me to my next point. Also Roddick never seems to have a plan besides hitting it hard, but he didn't even do that here at Roland Garros. Roddick needs to be aggressive. He can't be defensive because he doesn't have the fitness for that. Also Roddick doesn't adjust that well during a match. I don't know how many times he hit a second serve or shot to Acususo's backhand when he should have tried hitting them to the forehand to see what it could do.
He needs to continue working on sliding.

Mentally, he's obviously faultering. He goes for too much at bad times. He comes in at horrible times, and after stupid approach shots. He needs a breakthough, a long 5-set match where he wins, not where his opponent chokes(which they seem to not want to do lately).
6. Service return-why does Roddick stand so far back? He can do it once in a while, but now it has become a habit. Roddick also needs to be handle first serves and second serves better and he should be more aggressive on those instead of just waiting for his own service game because he relies on his service game too much and as shown his service game is starting to become a little unreliable.
Like Deb said, he just doesn't have that great return. He likes time.

Deboogle!.
05-28-2005, 12:14 AM
He's double-faulting too much.He actually doesn't DF that much at all. He averages less than 2 per match which is about right in line with (or less than) most other top players - and their serves are not like his lol. He DFed a lot yesterday but that was unusual for him. He went through 3 matches at Rome without doublefaulting at all, etc.

I think that it's also partially related to his mentality - when he's feeling good, he doesn't DF as much as when he's having trouble with his confidence. Towards that end, sometimes even though he doesn't DF that often, he does it at real bad times. Yesterday wasn't AS bad, what did he have, 5 yesterday? One of them was in the game at 4-5 in the third, but the others didn't really matter. I don't think DFs are a problem unless they come at bad times, and unfortunately a lot of his are. He DFs on break point much more often than I'd like to see. So perhaps it *feels* like he's doublefaulting a lot - because it's sometimes at really inopportune times. He might DF only once or twice a match, which is fine, but if they're both very costly, it feels a lot worse than if he did 6 of them all at 40-0.

I agree with Q about aces... if he's holding and serving effectively, it doesn't matter. Service winners don't count as aces and neither do really easy "good serve-easy putaway" combinations which are also basically just as effective. "Serving well" extends far beyond ace count.

Oh, the slice needs to die. IMO he way overuses it. For me, if he CAN hit a 2-hander, I think he should and try to hit through it. There are certain matchups and particular player styles where he might want to employ it more if his opponent is bothered by that kind of shot but I think that if he's in a good enough position to hit a good backhand he should go 2-handed except once in a while to mix it up. But sometimes he'll do 3, 4 in a row and either he ends up missing one or it leaves an opening for the opponent to hit a winner or whatever. It's good that he's improved the slice, I just think he uses it too often.

surfpinky
05-28-2005, 03:56 AM
7. Roddick needs to stand closer to the baseline. I realize it was a quick fix with Gilbert and that they were going to work on this in the winter, but Roddick stands too far back which makes his shots less effective.
Oh, yes, it bothers me that he stands so far behind. But, there are some times were he doesn't stand so far behind, or maybe I'm just seeing things ;) But it would definetely help.

5. Fitness Mentally/Physically- His fitness physically is pretty good but it can always get better. He needs to work mentally more.
YES! HE NEEDS HELP :lol:

4. Serve- I know he was sacrificing power for accuracy but now it has gotten a bit out of hand before he was sacrificing accuracy for power and he needs to find the right balance. He should never be outaced that badly by anyone especially a clay courter though Acususo had a good serve.
I wasn't really paying attention at his serve in the match with Acasuso, but I think he doesn't really have that many aces on clay. Or maybe he doesn't worry about it too much.

heya
05-28-2005, 03:59 AM
He really didn't take anything seriously. Now he paid the price. :rolleyes:

I knew this would happen after having big leads.
Any result was OK for him.
Look at his reaction---he let the 3rd set drag on past the 6th game, then
he continued to stand upright behind the baseline.
AT that time, one should've bent the knees, blasted flat shots hard
while stepping
forward, not moonballing & blocking back lazy shots.
Why is there no desire to watch his opponents' matches
so he could win with ease? Let's face, Gilbert & Dean did not tell
him to work a lot on changing speeds, spins, drop shots & backhand.
Scouting was useless many times. Just like his family, they let him
get complacent.



One of the many break point chances he had, he tried to rip a
one-handed bh.
Other times, he tapped the ball to the center of the court
at 15-30 or 0-30. The opponent should be rushed into an error, but
Andy was satisfied to rally & let him back into the match.
The slice and serve just sat up high for Acasuso to blast back.

Numerous times, he left the court wide open, fooling himself into believing
that his forehand'd produce a winner. Most times, it failed.
The backhand is the best weapon. The next best is the dropshot only after
Andy smacks the forehand to opponents' weak side.
Andy & the coach really don't understand this or they're in denial.
You can't spend the whole day volleying &
blasting serves that have no spin & placement. That doesn't work.

guida
05-28-2005, 04:46 AM
Wow! With such quality coaches in here I really don't understand what Andy's still doing with Dean! :lol:

Seriously, I think you should send this thread to Dean (and/or someone else close to Andy) because it's incredibly professional, with a lot of insight, technical knowledge and excellent advice (not to mention genuine concern for Roddick, the man).

I actually think that if someone with his best interests at heart were to read it, it could make a difference. ;)

Deboogle!.
05-28-2005, 04:57 AM
If we knew of a way to get it to someone there, I'd totally do it. When he was with Brad, I emailed Brad a couple times. I don't even remember what about, but yea. And I know other people did too lol

The thing is - if all of us can see these things it's hard to believe that the people around Andy don't. Dean was a player himself and has been a coach forever. Doug, while a trainer, has been doing tennis for many years, his brother was a good player, he's buddy-buddy with PMac and PMac knows all this stuff, and the list goes on... that's what's so confuzzling about it all :awww:

guida
05-28-2005, 05:06 AM
The thing is - if all of us can see these things it's hard to believe that the people around Andy don't.

Exactly. Which makes it all the more infuriating. :mad:

Deboogle!.
05-28-2005, 05:10 AM
Exactly. Which makes it all the more infuriating. :mad:Yeah, pretty much. sigh. double sigh.

This is from Bud Collins's analysis of the match and US Mens tennis, etc. I think he hits it right on the head.

"Roddick's overall confidence seems to be shaken. He and his coach, Dean Goldfine, need to find a way to discover why he can’t seem to close out big matches anymore. He’s lacking bravado, which he sorely needs to remain competitive at the top."

whole thing is here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7994702/ if you're interested.

tangerine_dream
05-28-2005, 05:11 AM
bunch of important stuff....*snip*
:worship: Excellent post nkhera and thank you for bringing it up. Unfortunately my head exploded from the deep thoughts emanating from my brain matter and I must now take an asprin and go sleep on it. I will add my response later. :)

In the meantime, could somebody please be a good little biddy and post some nude pics of Andy? This forum has been railroaded by too much tennis talk lately and we need to get back on track. It also helps me to think more clearly. Thanks! :kiss:

Fee
05-28-2005, 05:14 AM
So, let me ask those of you that have posted, in all seriousness, would you really want Doug Spreen to read this thread?

Here's a nude photo for you Tangy...

(but its a baby photo)


(and its not Andy, sorry) :angel:

guida
05-28-2005, 05:18 AM
Thanks for the article, Deb! I'll read it tomorrow (need some sleep, lol ;) )

Great post, Tangy! We do need to unwind, don't we? :lol:

Deboogle!.
05-28-2005, 05:20 AM
I suppose I can only speak for my own posts, but I absolutely would, Fee. I mean like I said, it's hard to believe that they don't already know this stuff, but yeah...

What worries the most is the mental stuff. Yea, there are parts of his game that need improvement, but when he's really strong and passionate and into it mentally, it doesn't seem to matter nearly as much!! As I said in my first long post, he has had better results with a MUCH less complete game than he does now. Everyone seems to see the mental struggle he is going through right now. We don't know WHY, but we can all see it, the press can, the commentators can, even Andy seems to realize it, but I really think they have to DO something about it. It'd be a waste of his prime playing years to wait around and plug away and hope that he turns a corner at some point :( We know he can do better than what he's doing now and we want to see him realize his vast potential. If this thread got any of them to even think of one thing that ended up being helpful to Andy and his team, then I certainly think it would be worth it.

nkhera1
05-28-2005, 07:20 AM
I think Andy needs to hire us to be his coach. I bet we would do it for free plus we would actually give him useful insight.

heya
05-28-2005, 09:23 AM
"Right now it stings. I don't think any of us are happy," Roddick said. "We all have a lot of pride."

Somehow, it's a chore to travel & practice.
He gets no rush of adrenaline.
The last 1 1/2 year, he has been faking positive emotions.
He didn't know who to get advice from in 2003-- his parents thought
it was the clay losses that deserved attention from Gilbert.
The trouble started in childhood...
(when you have talent,
a very good coach had to teach you as much as possible.
Andy didn't get that until
he was almost an adult.)
The big issue is Andy's unwillingness to be nasty & selfish.
He's very hot-tempered & cute. Non-fans know this. Fans are steaming mad at him.
He must not make his game an extension of his personality.
The last things he needs are:
naive underestimation of an opponent,
angry double faults,
obsessive rushes to the net &
stubborn acceptance of failure before a match ends or
childish mistakes after 1 point triggers his opponent's aggression & success.
Bitter losses make him suffer from bipolar disorder.
He won't get respect from opponents unless he plays with no respect.
Everytime he claps for others, he's clearly rebelling against fierce competition.
His self-respect disappeared because he wanted peace in the Tennis History War.


Tennis's not a gentleman's sport. Players are evil, vindictive & prejudiced.
Andy was never taught that friends wish for his failure.
Even Blake & Fish want to win so they can say, "I cut you down to size."

No one regularly pushed Andy hard
by serving well, running & rocketing the ball at his feet,
Andy developed very late--he got away with victories before without reacting quickly.
This year, no one will gift him a win.

Andy has to grind through practice + challenging matches in order to improve.
He HARDLY ever moves forward to give his serve more weight (Sampras-type),
placement & side spin (low bounce).
He rarely hits the backhand hard.
He is moving better, but HE'S REALLY ignorant.

He tried to impress the crowd instead of being relentless & calm.
If he believes this is being a celebrity, he's mistaken. :rolleyes:

Now, Andy agrees that he's one-dimensional, especially on clay.
IF this attitude won't change, his career'll be over.
Winning requires brilliant shotmaking.
Andy doesn't see that he has no heart.


He enjoys being at home, not pressuring himself with responsibilities.
He thinks training was fine because he was in
Houston & spent a few days in Europe.
Lie.
Maybe, he listened to the notion that his time ran out.
Federer & Hewitt, etc. benefitted from his tank jobs & he doesn't
want revenge.
When he choked against bad players,
he thought, "I'll just fake a smile when I'm suffering.
I have no grace, smarts or skills."

He was encouraged to be a stereotypical American.
He watched too much macho American football/baseball/NBA &
learned to flail his arms around & play stupidly.
Every loss, you see him expressing on TV, "No big deal, I'm going to win even though I wasted
10 break point chances. Oh well, I'm losing...maybe next time I'll be lucky.."

To him, if he's very successful, he'll have to deal with the media comparisons to Federer, Hewitt, etc.
He didn't get the message that only 1 person can be Champion@each event. :rolleyes:
:o

He WOULD never be so lazy if he loved his game.
The way he talked, it looked like he saw no urgency to end emotional & game problems.

His family & tennis friends stressed him
with charities/exhibitions. They are involved with his foundation, after all. :mad:

I bet you that Andy knew he was out-of-control in 2003.
He stopped taking matches seriously.
He gave an injury excuse, cancelled a tourney & immediately played an
exhibition.
He may've dreaded future losses, so he enthusiastically planned on doing fun things
to distract himself from stressful training/expectations.
Before the Australian Open, he gave up on winning, so it was
a priority to spend time at the casino & to rush to another exhibition.


He forced himself to do too much & got worn out, so why did he complain about
being exhausted?!

He tore up his muscles by being careless,
he served too hard every time he was in Davis Cup & he got no sleep...

In Miami, he threw his racket & damaged his wrist!
More delusional "pride matches" & missed opportunities came again in April-May.

This depressing nonsense won't go away unless he takes care of himself
& DOES HIS BEST FOR ONLY HIS FANS.
He can let go of unreasonable expectations
when the Olympics, Davis Cup & other patriotic events roll by.
He should think, "I should not feel shame/scared when I don't
do everything to help others."

MissFairy
05-28-2005, 09:49 AM
Thanks for the comment nkhera1 :hug: It was very insightful :)


1. Forehand- If you guys have noticed he has started to cut down on his swing because his older swing took a long time to go through. I feel this is a good move, but that he isn't getting the same amount of power as he used to. Now I may be wrong on this but it seems like now since he has shortened his backswing he has lost some of his power because he doesn't have the same racket acceleration as Federer and others. Don't get me wrong he still hits it pretty hard, but I don't know if it is as hard as before. Of course everyone knows placement is sometimes more important than speed but when he was doing really well, he was really blasting the forehand. Please correct me on this if I am wrong. Also if you noticed his forehand in his matches at Roland Garros, they had a lot of topspin, but they weren't that deep and they didn't move through the clay that well like Nadals does. I don't think he had to change his game that much for clay. All he needed was better movement, thinking, and patience because nobody changes their game that much for each surface.
I've noticed this about his depth too, his groudstrokes in general tend to be too short, barely at the service box line. This means the ball sometimes just sits up in court ready to be put away. Not a healthy strategy at all.
He plays his forehand with a crazy amount of topspin, which can be effective i think. But i think it's also important that sometimes he hits a bit more flat- so his pace isn't lost in translation.

3. Volleys-these are improving but they can always get better. I don't know why but Roddick likes to hit shots straight at people to much especially while he is at the net when he should go for the other side. Also his approach shots are sometimes not the greatest and he comes in during bad times.
I think him playing shots right at the opponent at the net is just down to lack of experience. When a player is there, with the fast reflexes come almost unconsious decisions about the direction of the shot because it's that quick. Maybe because he hasn't had the practice in big matches thus far he hasn't quite had the mental experience to back up choice of shot.
the approach i think is also to do with that, maybe when he knows it's better to finish a point at the net, he is willing but sometimes he is rash in making that decision and he rushes there regardless of the preparation from the prvious shot.

4. Serve- I know he was sacrificing power for accuracy but now it has gotten a bit out of hand before he was sacrificing accuracy for power and he needs to find the right balance. He should never be outaced that badly by anyone especially a clay courter though Acususo had a good serve.
His serve is always going to be effective because it's reliable. The speed is sometimes a little slower recently and i think Dean talked about working more with accuracy :shrug: Maybe they implemented it more on clay, because earlier in the season it wasn't really much slower, and i hope he doesn't continue to slow it down for the grass season, because he's never really DF'ed too much anyway.

5. Fitness Mentally/Physically- His fitness physically is pretty good but it can always get better. He needs to work mentally more. It seems like he doesn't have enjoy the game as much and it seems like he has self doubts. He can't close out a match and he can't even win tiebreakers anymore. Tiebreaks are made for bigger serves because they can afford to be aggressive on the opponents service which leads me to my next point. Also Roddick never seems to have a plan besides hitting it hard, but he didn't even do that here at Roland Garros. Roddick needs to be aggressive. He can't be defensive because he doesn't have the fitness for that. Also Roddick doesn't adjust that well during a match. I don't know how many times he hit a second serve or shot to Acususo's backhand when he should have tried hitting them to the forehand to see what it could do.
The improvement in his physical fitness has helped his game ten fold, it probably can get better, yet i think it's the best it's been so far. It helped him alot on clay especially but still not enough. And that's because of his head :mad: I dn't know why, but to me there seems to have been a big regression in his mental ability in the game. I agree about the hammering the Acasuso backhand repeatedly when it clearly wasn't reaping any rewards, he jus merely kept on ripping winners past him.
Him not being able to close out a match, and his poor tiebreak record recently is really worrying me. This is a problem that younger players have, players maybe with no experience or no confidence. It's not a problem he should be having if he's trying to contest for the slams.

6. Service return-why does Roddick stand so far back? He can do it once in a while, but now it has become a habit. Roddick also needs to be handle first serves and second serves better and he should be more aggressive on those instead of just waiting for his own service game because he relies on his service game too much and as shown his service game is starting to become a little unreliable.
In my opinion, his sevice return is one of weakest parts of his game. His stubborness to stand so far behind the baseline and keep running around his backhand to leave acres of space to hit a winner isn't right. He could run around his backhand if his service return was more effective, more length, depth, pace. But more often than not, it just isn't.
there's been a shakeup in the make up of his game, Dean has been trying to incorperate more tools into his game and he's been doing a good job. andy's game is more varied than ever, but to me he;s just having a big problem trying to readjust and pick the right shot at the right time. This might be why his service games aren't as reliable, he just tends to play a few unwise shots or plays and he often gets into trouble.

7. Roddick needs to stand closer to the baseline. I realize it was a quick fix with Gilbert and that they were going to work on this in the winter, but Roddick stands too far back which makes his shots less effective.
Him standing so far behind the baseline negates the power he has. It's quite simple, and it would be great if he could just quit doing it, but old habits are hard to break, i guess.

liptea
05-28-2005, 09:53 AM
Wow. Where did all the tennis in this forum come from? :eek:

I think it's optimistic that Andy was coming in. He'll do better as time goes on, hopefully.

Did he come in this much in Houston? It would seem to be better to try out less comfortable play on a more minor tournament.

nkhera1
05-28-2005, 02:32 PM
Well to give Roddick credit he has improved his volleys and movment tremendously and I only hope he can improve the other parts of his game that well. Also I would like to see Roddick break a racket every now and then. I know it looks disrespectful but at least then we would know that he is enjoying himself out there and really concerned with what is going and sometimes that can work to be a positive for him and he starts playing really well.

Deboogle!.
05-28-2005, 02:34 PM
LOL Niti! I think Andy did come in at Houston. But he was also playing a vast majority of players who maybe didn't require him to - he could beat the likes of Ginepri and Horna from the baseline more easily, y'know?

Sarah, I totally and completely agree with EVERYTHING You said. Just... yeah. As for the mental problems... yep, what he's showing now does reek of inexperience and immaturity. Unfortunately it also reeks of someone who is going through a mental slump, and that's where Andy is at right now :sad:

I guess it's real easy for us all to sit here and sound all smart and insightful with all this stuff. It's different to actually get out there and do it. Ultimately I guess we have no idea what goes on in their practice sessions and what they're trying to work on, but it's hard to escape the fact that we all see this stuff - and have been seeing it for a long time - and yet none of this stuff seems to be changing in Andy's game :(

I don't know about Andy breaking racquets, nkhera1.... he is not the type who normally plays well when he gets that upset. But I totally agree that he needs to get FIRED UP. that seems to be basically gone and that's what I used to like so much about him. I think he still wants it badly - otherwise he wouldn't have been SO CRUSHED after his loss, but whether he's out there enjoying himself anymore, I think yea, we're all worried about this. Because utlimately we want him to be happy, and if he's not happy out there right now, that's just sad:(

tangerine_dream
05-28-2005, 06:37 PM
Let us pause for a moment :)

http://tinypic.com/5ey8tw

Aaahhh! Now I can concentrate better to respond. ;)

Also if you noticed his forehand in his matches at Roland Garros, they
had a lot of topspin, but they weren't that deep and they didn't move through
the clay that well like Nadals does. I don't think he had to change his game
that much for clay. All he needed was better movement, thinking, and
patience because nobody changes their game that much for each surface.
From what I understand, Andy added some weight to his racket to allow for more topspin. When grass season rolls around my guess is Andy will revert back to hitting flat balls.

Backhand. This has always been a problem. I think the problem is
Roddick's form. He needs to bend his elbows in order to hit better
backhands. Roddick needs to work on his hitting his backhand deeper and
hitting his backhand down the line because this really affects the rest of his
game especially when he has to keep running around.
Andy's backhand has actually improved a lot in the past year. It will never become a go-to weapon even though he's been hitting a lot more winners of it lately. And I agree that he needs to learn to paint the lines more and hit deeper. The short balls are killing him.

Volleys-these are improving but they can always get better. I don't
know why but Roddick likes to hit shots straight at people to much especially
while he is at the net when he should go for the other side. Also his approach
shots are sometimes not the greatest and he comes in during bad times.
Yes, we've been saying the same thing for a while now. His timing is off, he volleys when he shouldn't be volleying, he obviously doesn't have an instinct for the net. But I admire that he will force himself at the net during pressure moments. How else can he improve if he doesn't put it to use during actual matches? To make a great volley during practice when there's no pressure is not the same as coming up with a great volley under pressure, with the crowd against you, when you're down a break. And yes, the fact that he keeps hitting balls directly back AT his opponent (when he's got an open court to aim for) drives me nuts. He needs to learn how to pass better. :(

Serve- I know he was sacrificing power for accuracy but now it has
gotten a bit out of hand before he was sacrificing accuracy for power and he
needs to find the right balance. He should never be outaced that badly by
anyone especially a clay courter though Acususo had a good serve.
I don't care if Andy is outaced by someone, that doesn't mean he'll lose. Pim
Pim blasted 51 aces at Agassi this past AO and he *still* lost. One of Andy's goals this year is to turn down the heat a bit and I agree. Coming out blasting in the early rounds hasn't been helping him. He needs to save the power for later matches against tougher opponents, IMO. Blowing away a kid like Jenkins is meaningless if he can't blow away later opponents like Pim-Pim.

Yes, Andy needs to learn better serve placement but he also needs to quit being so predictable with it , too. Acasuso began to read Andy's serve much better from the third set on and for some stupid reason, Andy kept serving to his backhand, which Acasuso was already waiting for and would return with no problems. Why didn't Andy switch it up a bit? :rolleyes:

One thing Andy really needs to learn to do is to switch gears. Sometimes he sticks to a gameplan even when he sees that it's failing him. He has to learn to abandon a plan that is not working and go to plan B.

He also needs to work on his transition game more; quit being passive and be more aggressive. Quit waiting for the other guy to screw up because it's not going to happen. Stop being put on the defensive all the time by moving up to the baseline more. Keep attacking and dictate the play; that doesn't necessarily mean keep approaching the net.

Service return-why does Roddick stand so far back? He can do it once
in a while, but now it has become a habit.
Old habits are hard to break. Andy still thinks he's a teenage shrimp who has to grind out the points. He strikes me as someone who is still adjusting to his newfound height and is a bit awkward sometimes.

I also do not think that coaching is the problem for Andy. After listening to Gilbert's comments after the Acasuso match I am convinced that Gilbert new exactly what Andy needed to do to win that match and surely he must've told Andy this last year when they were together. There's only so much a coach can do and he can't play the match for his student. Andy needs to figure it out on his own. Frankly, I'm surprised he hasn't figured it out yet because he's smarter than this. Perhaps Karen Crouse was right; all the advice from so many people has turned into white noise for Andy and he tunes them out. Who knows?

Andy is putting too much pressure on himself to do well and this is another thing that is causing him to "freeze" when he previously never did so. Getting to No. 1 was the easy part; staying there is harder.

Deboogle!.
05-29-2005, 03:06 PM
Ok so, I guess this is as good a place as any to write this. I was feeling cranky last night so I felt like watching some match where Andy played really well and totally kicked someone's ass. So I watched his match against Rafa from the USO last year.

I realize that Andy crapped out mentally later in the tournament, and I realize the surface and opponent and all that is TOTALLY different, but there were a few things I noticed.

~Andy's demeanor. It was a LOT more like the OLD Andy. Standing up VERY straight, walking around with that authoritative swagger, into every single point, fist pumping, shouting, staring down his opponent, etc. I realize this is why a lot of people think Andy is a jerk but this is when Andy is playing his BEST. He has been COMPLETELY missing this at big events this year.

~His groundstrokes - he was striking off both sides with huge authority, the sound of the ball coming off the racquet was even diferent. He was killing the ball - off BOTH sides - getting it deep and hitting it very hard. And sure he missed sometimes but he was getting the balls in MUCH more often than hitting them out or into the net. Again, none of this recently.

~Court positioning - he was, by and large, rallying just behind, or on, the baseline. Once in a while he ended up very far back, but it was mostly due to the weight and depth of Nadal's shots as opposed to him starting out there and rallying from there intentionally.

~Return - granted, Nadal's serve was not great last year - it's much better now - but still, Andy was being aggressive on it! Really going for returns that put him in control from the start, and MIXING UP his return positions. Sometimes he backed up on the 2nd serve, but sometimes he stood on the baseline. He was also being aggressive and coming in on some of Nadal's 2nd serves at opportune times.

It was like watching a different Andy. And like I said, I know he had mental issues even later on at that very tournament, so I'm not really addressing that lack of confidence in BIG matches here, which was obviously a problem even then, but more the cricisms of his game that we have all discussed here. Not only does he know how to do a lot of the stuff we talked about in this thread but he is really really capable of it and HAS done a lot of it in matches before.

This is why I am 100% convinced that if he could just get his mental stuff worked out, a LOT of the stuff in his game that we have discussed would come along naturally because if he were TRULY confident then he would have the confidence to do a lot of these things right... because he already knows how to do them and knows that he has to do them.

Golfnduck
05-29-2005, 04:04 PM
I have to agree with you completely Deb. Hopefully Andy does something about it before the grass season.

heya
05-29-2005, 09:53 PM
He was looking down on his opponents and he ate humble pie.
There was no discussion about court surface & ball bounces.
Gilbert would've made him bludgeon the ball so hard that he would've lost
in 3 sets. Gilbert never convinced me for one second that he knew what was
going to happen. He was boasting that Acasuso was weak & that
Andy didn't need to lose weight, concentrate & practice correctly before these matches.
I'm not surprised at all by Andy's nervous breakdowns between 2003-2005.

This is not just a "mental problem."
Proper preparation, time for training & memorizing are not there.
Nobody's net game just comes by instinct. He knew that he shouldn't have made some volleys & that those volleys would make him lose, but he volleyed anyway because he had no
will to win a tournament. If he was so sure of beating Nadal, Coria, etc., he would
never run around his backhand, dump balls in the net & make joke shots in the 4th &
5th sets...the ending was a complete surrender (you know it).

Tim Henman volleys well, but he misses a lot at the net too.
No coach taught Andy great techniques between age 8-20 years.
Everyone paid more attention to his brother John's
tennis. Andy was a joke to everyone.

I didn't see many volleys at World Team Tennis either.
He already took a vacation in the off-season & he's withdrawing from
more tournaments this year too.

sagroove
05-30-2005, 03:57 AM
He was looking down on his opponents and he ate humble pie.
There was no discussion about court surface & ball bounces.
Gilbert would've made him bludgeon the ball so hard that he would've lost
in 3 sets. Gilbert never convinced me for one second that he knew what was
going to happen. He was boasting that Acasuso was weak & that
Andy didn't need to lose weight, concentrate & practice correctly before these matches.
I'm not surprised at all by Andy's nervous breakdowns between 2003-2005.

This is not just a "mental problem."
Proper preparation, time for training & memorizing are not there.
Nobody's net game just comes by instinct. He knew that he shouldn't have made some volleys & that those volleys would make him lose, but he volleyed anyway because he had no
will to win a tournament. If he was so sure of beating Nadal, Coria, etc., he would
never run around his backhand, dump balls in the net & make joke shots in the 4th &
5th sets...the ending was a complete surrender (you know it).

Tim Henman volleys well, but he misses a lot at the net too.
No coach taught Andy great techniques between age 8-20 years.
Everyone paid more attention to his brother John's
tennis. Andy was a joke to everyone.

I didn't see many volleys at World Team Tennis either.
He already took a vacation in the off-season & he's withdrawing from
more tournaments this year too.

Wow............well said.....and so true. The truth never hurt so much.....again, perhaps the grass will be greener for AR in the UK.


SAGroove

nkhera1
06-02-2005, 08:05 AM
One thing I wanted to add is that even though Roddick isn't having the best of years he still made it to the Australian Open semis, won a few small tournaments, made it to the semis at Indian Wells, pulled out with injuries twice, won Houston, and did better on clay than he has ever done before, so even though its bad a kind of bad year for Roddick its still a pretty good one for just about anyone else. The only things that are proven to beat him are clay, injuries, and Leyton Hewitt. I felt that he had improved the least during the 1 month off they have (I'm referring to the top players), but he is making up for it now with his improvement in movement and volleys and hopefully he can continue to improve.

MissFairy
06-02-2005, 08:16 AM
The other thing that has been proven to beat him is his own mental state, that's what worries me :(

But the results on paper he's had so far this year, not too shabby. But the losses he's had are the ones that show his weaknesses in closing out etc. (vs Hewitt, Massu, Acasuso...)

Deboogle!.
06-02-2005, 02:10 PM
Well I think it's great to try to keep perspective. If Andy's in a slump and still in the top five and still going deep at the faster slams and masters events and winning titles here and there, then it's not a bad slump in terms of the severity of slumps. That's absolutely true, and maybe we do all need to try to keep this in mind.

We just know Andy can do better :)

MissFairy
06-02-2005, 02:15 PM
Better. Better. Better. :bounce:
I think i'm hyper :o

With his game, i think he *should* be a staple in the top 2/3 in the coming seasons.

Deboogle!.
06-02-2005, 02:19 PM
Yeah...

I think the ranking isn't even quite as important as the titles. And the important thing is that he should be a contender for 3 out of 4 slams and 6 (and arguably 7 because of how fast it is there) of 9 Masters titles every year for the next 5-6 years. He's capable of winning those titles and should be winning some here and there.

Fumus
06-02-2005, 02:26 PM
The Verdict is in: Andy will never win a big match again

Ugh, can I appeal that verdict in lou of the grass season approaching?

Deboogle!.
06-02-2005, 02:31 PM
Ugh, can I appeal that verdict in lou of the grass season approaching?lieu ;) :kiss:

And yes, the verdict is appealable for further review upon the conclusion of the grass season.

Fumus
06-02-2005, 03:05 PM
lieu ;) :kiss:

And yes, the verdict is appealable for further review upon the conclusion of the grass season.

Yes, we get to take it to the supreme Deb court! Chief Justice Deb!

Angle Queen
06-09-2005, 04:51 PM
First off, thanx Debstah for pointing me to this thread. I rarely post in a player’s forum so I hope I’m not out-of-place. I like Andy...and hope he’s around a long time. :hatoff: to him for trying to tinker with and improve his game to keep him in the Top 5. In that regard, he’s way ahead of the curve.

Excellent thread topic, nkhera1.

Here’s my 2-cents worth....

His lack-of-depth on both FH and BH is a recipe for disaster. The FH was his shot. Driving and flat or that nice inside-out thing. I hope they are still in his arsenal and that he uses both again on grass/hard court. As for the BH...

He needs to bend his elbows in order to hit better backhands. Roddick needs to work on his hitting his backhand deeper and hitting his backhand down the line because this really affects the rest of his game especially when he has to keep running around.
I wonder how hard it would be to bend his elbows more at this point. That would help him with power, but of course it is a pretty big change to make. His technique definitely doesn't generate power very effectively. If his technique lessened power but gave him the consistency of Hewitt, that would be one thing. But we all know that is not the case. :lol: Hewitt indeed has one of the most consistent BHs in the game and a beautiful DTL shot...but if you’ll notice, he also has a fairly straight-arm take-back. Because the Aussie is one of my favs, I have toyed around with that version of the shot. It is a bit awkward at first, but forces a pronounced shoulder and hip turn. That enables you to really use all of your body (legs and torso) to power the shot...which you must do...or it WILL fall short. Because of the body’s rotation, you must also be in the proper position sooner and I think Hewitt has tremendous success with that style of BH...because his footwork is top-notch. Andy is improving in that area as well and hopefully we’ll see better results all around.

As for his serve, just hit the damn ball, Andy...esp on faster surfaces. Good depth and good speed more than compensate for imperfect placement.

On your returns, step up...even if that means you shank a few. You’re young enough, with plenty of hand-eye coordination. You’ll get used to it and that shorted backswing will be :yeah: .

Now mentally, Debstah’s got it right.

I maintain that it's time to see a sports psychologist... it can't hurt.You’ve got fitness trainers, why not a mental trainer too? Last big-time athlete I can recall that openly admitted to seeing one was John Smoltz of the Atlanta Braves. He’d been a starting pitcher all of his career...and just started to lose it. There was even a point when his psychologist came to his games, wore the same red sweater and sat in the same seat. Hey, whatever it takes. Smoltz made the transition to the bullpen and completely rejuvenated his career (even though he’s now back to being a starter).

At the level these guys are playing, they’re all super talented and it’ll be the little things...like the mental edge...that makes the difference between Top 10...and Top 100.

You’ve Gotta Believe!!!

Fumus
06-09-2005, 05:00 PM
First off, thanx Debstah for pointing me to this thread. I rarely post in a player’s forum so I hope I’m not out-of-place. I like Andy...and hope he’s around a long time. :hatoff: to him for trying to tinker with and improve his game to keep him in the Top 5. In that regard, he’s way ahead of the curve.

Excellent thread topic, nkhera1.

Here’s my 2-cents worth....

His lack-of-depth on both FH and BH is a recipe for disaster. The FH was his shot. Driving and flat or that nice inside-out thing. I hope they are still in his arsenal and that he uses both again on grass/hard court. As for the BH...


Hewitt indeed has one of the most consistent BHs in the game and a beautiful DTL shot...but if you’ll notice, he also has a fairly straight-arm take-back. Because the Aussie is one of my favs, I have toyed around with that version of the shot. It is a bit awkward at first, but forces a pronounced shoulder and hip turn. That enables you to really use all of your body (legs and torso) to power the shot...which you must do...or it WILL fall short. Because of the body’s rotation, you must also be in the proper position sooner and I think Hewitt has tremendous success with that style of BH...because his footwork is top-notch. Andy is improving in that area as well and hopefully we’ll see better results all around.

As for his serve, just hit the damn ball, Andy...esp on faster surfaces. Good depth and good speed more than compensate for imperfect placement.

On your returns, step up...even if that means you shank a few. You’re young enough, with plenty of hand-eye coordination. You’ll get used to it and that shorted backswing will be :yeah: .

Now mentally, Debstah’s got it right.

You’ve got fitness trainers, why not a mental trainer too? Last big-time athlete I can recall that openly admitted to seeing one was John Smoltz of the Atlanta Braves. He’d been a starting pitcher all of his career...and just started to lose it. There was even a point when his psychologist came to his games, wore the same red sweater and sat in the same seat. Hey, whatever it takes. Smoltz made the transition to the bullpen and completely rejuvenated his career (even though he’s now back to being a starter).

At the level these guys are playing, they’re all super talented and it’ll be the little things...like the mental edge...that makes the difference between Top 10...and Top 100.

You’ve Gotta Believe!!!

Angle Queen please post here more often.

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on Andy's game anywhere, your insight would be awesome if you posted here more.

Angle Queen
06-09-2005, 05:43 PM
Thank you, Fumus. I am blushing at your kind words.

I meant to add a bit about his volleys too.

I read an article/column in Tennis Week (I must have left it at home...I'll try to remember to look for it) about how s/v and coming to net were quickly becoming lost arts because of the intense desire to see immediate results...which are most easily accomplished from the baseline. S/V takes much more time to develop...and you'll fail more often than you'll succeed...at first. Again, Andy deserves credit for trying to add this exciting...and effective element to his game. Where he can really make improvements is learning to make better choices...on when and behind what to come in on. That will only come with time and experience (and a little bit of failure along the way).

A good place for him to start would be to commit to s/v for a series of points or an entire game (in an early round or a small tourney). And it is a commitment. You can't just decide to do it after you've struck the ball. I really don't think he's all that bad at net (tall, good reach, good reactions although not necessarily good hands) so his key will be the speed of getting in...and/or the ability to hit the half-volley at mid-court. Maybe a few workouts with Todd Martin...or heck, even Sampras. Both of those guys have some time on their hands. ;)

When he's receiving (and therefore not s/v), I believe he's got to make two, mostly mental, adjustments: select/make better approach shots AND realize/recognize that neither the approach nor the initial volley have to be the put-away/winner. His goal should be to put himself in a winning position -- by forcing an error from his opponent or getting himself an easy volley or overhead.

It's not rocket science and would apply to anyone but I believe Andy has all the right physical tools to be an all-court player.

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 05:45 PM
I'm with Ryan, thanks for posting AQ, very interesting read :hug: people like to pretend that we don't talk critically about Andy's tennis here, I think this thread proves them wrong, don't you? :) anyway, you're welcome here any time you want, whether it's to post 1 thing or 100 :)

Andy's Forehand is looking better on grass already. I don't know who thought weighing his racquet with 3g extra weight around the frame was a good idea, but it didn't work. I suppose if it had worked we would all be saying "Wow great experiment!" but I think combined with Andy's general unhappiness and lack of conviction on clay to begin with, putting that extra spin just made all his balls fall short. It's been hard to tell what his FH has really looked like on the grass in his first two matches b/c I've been watching on the BBC feed, but tomorrow I have it on TTC so I will be studying his shot depth, that is for sure.

Also today, his first serve was great, but his second serve was landing very short a lot of the time :( The BBC guys suggested it was a lack of confidence in it at the moment. I tend to agree. There's no question about the quality of his 2nd serve, it's surely one of the best in the game right now, if not ever. But if he's just spinning it in around 100-110 mph and landing it in the middle of the box, that's not the Andy Roddick 2nd serve I know and love :(

Sports psychologist, Andy.... pleeeeeeeeeeeease *begs*

EDIT: I think I agree with your 2nd post even MORE than your original one :lol: Definitely agree to serve-volleying more and committing to it - esp. on grass! He hasn't done much at the net in either of his matches at Queens yet :(

I think returning and court positioning are the two biggest TECHNICAL weaknesses left in his game. Especially court positioning in rallies, especially on quicker courts where there is no reason he shouldn't be rallying from around the baseline.

Fumus
06-09-2005, 06:03 PM
Thank you, Fumus. I am blushing at your kind words.

I meant to add a bit about his volleys too.

I read an article/column in Tennis Week (I must have left it at home...I'll try to remember to look for it) about how s/v and coming to net were quickly becoming lost arts because of the intense desire to see immediate results...which are most easily accomplished from the baseline. S/V takes much more time to develop...and you'll fail more often than you'll succeed...at first. Again, Andy deserves credit for trying to add this exciting...and effective element to his game. Where he can really make improvements is learning to make better choices...on when and behind what to come in on. That will only come with time and experience (and a little bit of failure along the way).

A good place for him to start would be to commit to s/v for a series of points or an entire game (in an early round or a small tourney). And it is a commitment. You can't just decide to do it after you've struck the ball. I really don't think he's all that bad at net (tall, good reach, good reactions although not necessarily good hands) so his key will be the speed of getting in...and/or the ability to hit the half-volley at mid-court. Maybe a few workouts with Todd Martin...or heck, even Sampras. Both of those guys have some time on their hands. ;)

When he's receiving (and therefore not s/v), I believe he's got to make two, mostly mental, adjustments: select/make better approach shots AND realize/recognize that neither the approach nor the initial volley have to be the put-away/winner. His goal should be to put himself in a winning position -- by forcing an error from his opponent or getting himself an easy volley or overhead.

It's not rocket science and would apply to anyone but I believe Andy has all the right physical tools to be an all-court player.

AQ, actually Andy does practice that sorta stuff against the lower ranked players. I remember last year a Wimbly Andy practiced and toyed with alot of stuff before he played Roger. I definitly agree with practicing new things against lower ranked opponents. Certianly I even do that at the club level, it's fun and it makes think more interesting for you. In other ways however, I like it when Andy just crushed people like at USO and he just trys to play his best game throughout. I can see both schools of thought.

Angle Queen
06-09-2005, 06:20 PM
AQ, actually Andy does practice that sorta stuff against the lower ranked players. I remember last year a Wimbly Andy practiced and toyed with alot of stuff before he played Roger. I definitly agree with practicing new things against lower ranked opponents. Wish I could say I'd seen plenty of his recent early round matches to have realized that. My bad. If he's been doing it, with success, against the lower-ranked guys, it's time to try it against the big guns. At this point, I don't see him having anything to lose. Late in the second set, however, is not the time to try stuff (like in Houston last year against Hewitt).

Andy had a great run at Wimby last year and mayhap the fiddling early on might have helped. As for Roger in the finals...:shrug: Andy had the best quote..and I'm paraphrasing here...I threw everything at him, including the kitchen sink...and [Roger] went and threw the bathtub back.

As I was going through my tape collection, trying to find something to put this year's RG Final on, I came across that Wimby final. I sat, enthralled...again...for hours. Here's hoping for a similar classic this year.

tangerine_dream
06-09-2005, 06:27 PM
Great posts, Angle Queen :wavey:

Fumus
06-09-2005, 06:29 PM
Wish I could say I'd seen plenty of his recent early round matches to have realized that. My bad. If he's been doing it, with success, against the lower-ranked guys, it's time to try it against the big guns. At this point, I don't see him having anything to lose. Late in the second set, however, is not the time to try stuff (like in Houston last year against Hewitt).

Andy had a great run at Wimby last year and mayhap the fiddling early on might have helped. As for Roger in the finals...:shrug: Andy had the best quote..and I'm paraphrasing here...I threw everything at him, including the kitchen sink...and [Roger] went and threw the bathtub back.

As I was going through my tape collection, trying to find something to put this year's RG Final on, I came across that Wimby final. I sat, enthralled...again...for hours. Here's hoping for a similar classic this year.

Hey yea, I hope they meet again too. Only this time because of Andy's ranking they might not meet in a final(which could be better, who knows).

Don't get me started on that final, I think in many ways Andy was robbed by the weather...all due credit to Roger but if it didn't rain he was out of the match in 4 sets.

Yea, Andy does play like a knuckle head when he starts to lose. I feel like when Andy gets down in a match, or even if a match is pretty close durning a 5 set encounter against a top opponent he won't win it. Andy just doesn't have that moxy, that special sumtin to pull him through, I hope he finds it.

Deboogle!.
06-09-2005, 06:34 PM
Andy just doesn't have that moxy, that special sumtin to pull him through, I hope he finds it.Well he DID have it, he's just misplaced it at the moment.

Fumus
06-09-2005, 06:37 PM
Well he DID have it, he's just misplaced it at the moment.


I found it! No no no wait wait it was just my winter 03' issue of Tennis magazine announcing Roddick the future of mens tennis. ;)

MisterQ
06-09-2005, 06:55 PM
Hewitt indeed has one of the most consistent BHs in the game and a beautiful DTL shot...but if you’ll notice, he also has a fairly straight-arm take-back. Because the Aussie is one of my favs, I have toyed around with that version of the shot. It is a bit awkward at first, but forces a pronounced shoulder and hip turn. That enables you to really use all of your body (legs and torso) to power the shot...which you must do...or it WILL fall short. Because of the body’s rotation, you must also be in the proper position sooner and I think Hewitt has tremendous success with that style of BH...because his footwork is top-notch. Andy is improving in that area as well and hopefully we’ll see better results all around.


Hi AQ, nice to see you here. :wavey:

yes, that straight-arm take-back is precisely the reason I brought up Hewitt at that point. The straight arm helps Hewitt to maintain great consistency, but it somewhat decreases the power he can generate.

Fumus
06-09-2005, 06:59 PM
Hi AQ, nice to see you here. :wavey:

yes, that straight-arm take-back is precisely the reason I brought up Hewitt at that point. The straight arm helps Hewitt to maintain great consistency, but it somewhat decreases the power he can generate.

I know a certain favorite of yours with a backhand that isn't too shabby with two straight elbows all the way through contact. :)

MisterQ
06-09-2005, 07:09 PM
I know a certain favorite of yours with a backhand that isn't too shabby with two straight elbows all the way through contact. :)

;)

Andre's elbows are often straight at contact (there is some variety depending on where he is directing the ball). However, during the take-back, they are much more bent than Hewitt's. This makes it easier for Andre to whip through the stroke.

Here's a great page on Andre's bh: http://groups.msn.com/TennizFriendzSingaporeTFS/tennisanalysis3.msnw

Fumus
06-09-2005, 07:44 PM
;)

Andre's elbows are often straight at contact (there is some variety depending on where he is directing the ball). However, during the take-back, they are much more bent than Hewitt's. This makes it easier for Andre to whip through the stroke.

Here's a great page on Andre's bh: http://groups.msn.com/TennizFriendzSingaporeTFS/tennisanalysis3.msnw

Yea, it's evident Andre has a suprier backhand but, I think what makes a player's strokes great isn't their technique sometimes, its' their belief and confidence...along with natural talents and skills with a given shot. This in my opinion is the major different between Andy Roddick's backhand and say Andre Agassi's.

acoffeygirl
06-10-2005, 02:34 AM
Angle Queen...thanks for stopping by. Great Posts!! Please come back often!!

superpinkone37
06-10-2005, 03:37 AM
Great posts Angle Queen :hug:

heya
06-10-2005, 05:06 AM
Being tall at 6'2"-6'3" and outweighing most players by 10 pounds make everything
more complicated.
It's easier for a top player to look more talented when he's able to move
his lighter body & smaller limbs a lot faster.

Angle Queen
06-10-2005, 12:17 PM
people like to pretend that we don't talk critically about Andy's tennis here, I think this thread proves them wrong, don't you? :)Absolutely.

Question for you more avid fans...when was the last time Andy played doubles (other than an exhibition)? I see from the atp site that he was a finalist at Doha in 2004 (w/Koubek) but has he done anything more recent? If he's looking for a way to get some excellent practice at net...there's no better way than doubles.

Also...who do you think would make a good partner for him? Tradition says, if one is a good server (Andy :) ), a good compliment would be a good returner but that's not a hard-n-fast rule. I just probably wouldn't put Roddick and Mirnyi on the same side of the court. I would think someone a bit older, perhaps a little wiser, if not necessarily quite as talented.

As a Hewitt fan, I'd love to see them pair up and think their skill sets compliment each other nicely (as it did with Hewitt/Mirnyi at '00 USO) but I just can't see the two of them realistically working together. :lol: (even though I think one of the best ways to get inside an opponent's head...who's gotten inside yours...is to get 'em on the same side with you. Can't beat 'em, join 'em...so to speak.)

Of the top 30 or so, I'll throw out two names: Henman and Stepanek. Henman's skills at mid-court and net are :yeah: and Stepanek has a Top 20 singles and doubles ranking. Dropping down a bit, but still a respectable singles/doubles player is Rainer Schuettler. Not sure how any of those personalities would mesh...but the exercise of trying to find a decent part-time partner for Roddick had me intrigued.

Any thoughts, anyone?

acoffeygirl
06-10-2005, 05:55 PM
Roddick played doubles at the US Men's Claycourt Championship this year. I can 't remember then name of the friend that he played with. I believe they lost in the second round. He also played with Agassi at Queens last year.

When asked about playing doubles before he started Queens this year....He said "Never Again."

I agree that it would be good for him, but he seems to have his mind set against it! :shrug:

Deboogle!.
06-10-2005, 05:58 PM
It was his buddy Tres Davis.

Andy definitely should play doubles. I don't know why he's so against it. :smash:

Angle Queen
06-10-2005, 06:51 PM
I don't know why he's so against it.It's human nature to not want to do things we're not so good at. Is Andy human? :p

jk...

But like drills (piano/scales, basketball/free-throws, tennis/volleys, whatever...), it's the ones we hate that we stand to benefit the most from.

Andy definitely should play doubles.:yeah:

:secret: Hey, Andy. If you want easy competition, there's a small mixed tournament here in Richmond I need a partner for. :lol: In my dreams!

heya
06-10-2005, 06:51 PM
Usually, Andy's doubles matches don't last long because there aren't many rallies.
He alone overpowered Fish/Blake & the Bryan brothers.

blosson
06-10-2005, 07:04 PM
It's human nature to not want to do things we're not so good at. Is Andy human? :p

Andy is a bird = duck.

surfpinky
06-11-2005, 12:02 AM
Absolutely.

Question for you more avid fans...when was the last time Andy played doubles (other than an exhibition)? I see from the atp site that he was a finalist at Doha in 2004 (w/Koubek) but has he done anything more recent? If he's looking for a way to get some excellent practice at net...there's no better way than doubles.

Also...who do you think would make a good partner for him? Tradition says, if one is a good server (Andy :) ), a good compliment would be a good returner but that's not a hard-n-fast rule. I just probably wouldn't put Roddick and Mirnyi on the same side of the court. I would think someone a bit older, perhaps a little wiser, if not necessarily quite as talented.

As a Hewitt fan, I'd love to see them pair up and think their skill sets compliment each other nicely (as it did with Hewitt/Mirnyi at '00 USO) but I just can't see the two of them realistically working together. :lol: (even though I think one of the best ways to get inside an opponent's head...who's gotten inside yours...is to get 'em on the same side with you. Can't beat 'em, join 'em...so to speak.)

Of the top 30 or so, I'll throw out two names: Henman and Stepanek. Henman's skills at mid-court and net are :yeah: and Stepanek has a Top 20 singles and doubles ranking. Dropping down a bit, but still a respectable singles/doubles player is Rainer Schuettler. Not sure how any of those personalities would mesh...but the exercise of trying to find a decent part-time partner for Roddick had me intrigued.

Any thoughts, anyone?
Hello fellow Hewitt fan :wavey:
I would love Andy to play doubles with Lleyton, that would be awesome :p hehe
But my dream doubles would be with...Roger Federer, I think he would benefit from that :] a lot...hehe