did burgsmuller show the way? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

did burgsmuller show the way?

federer express
05-23-2005, 06:53 PM
there is no doubt that whoever beats nadal will have to do it by attacking him and especially his serve. nobody will just outlast him at the back of the court with the possible exception of coria. so...attack the serve and come to the net? sounds simple but who is good enough to do it? henman is the only one near the top of the game who is ever inclined to play that way and was successful for a little while against coria last year doing it. can he beat nadal this year on clay? NO! will federer play that way if he comes up against nadal? very unlikely! but...in the less distant future nadal might have to play gasquet. now he will definitely attack but i dont think he will come to the net enough to get the job done. we shall see.....

Neely
05-23-2005, 07:12 PM
Coria was pretty close in Rome to outlast him mainly from the baseline. But I agree, it's very very difficult to only rely on a baseline strategy if you are playing against Nadal.

Burgsmüller and Stepanek did the right thing for a limited amount of time to make the scoreline look more friendly than most people (probably) would have expected before and they decided to make their own points and those for Nadal (by unforced errors, by too risky shots, bad volleys, bad net attacks) rather than waiting at the baseline until Nadal guns them down in rallies. But you have to be so damn consistent with your net play and you still would have to find a kind of mixture because Nadal is also not stupid so that he falls the same tricks again and again in a best-of-five set match. Damn hard to talk about such things what would work and what would not... :shrug:

federer express
05-23-2005, 07:16 PM
gasquet will have to be very aggressive and hope his backhand works as it can. if he doesn't do it the next test should be gaudio...who could do it playing his natural game. but i have to think the best place to be against nadal is at the net (if you can volley well that is!)

Bonaventure
05-23-2005, 08:02 PM
Nadal's serve is a lot harder to attack than it might look. He gets a lot of spin on it and kicks it up high, its virtually impossible to smack winners off unless he leaves it short.

I'd also say that Nadal is probably as good as they come at the moment in terms of ability on the passing shots off both wings. His backhand used to be a little weak but he's improved it no end and I wouldn't call it a weakness anymore. His speed around the court means he gives himself plenty of time on each pass.

nermo
05-23-2005, 09:36 PM
Of course Burgsmuller showed a good logical way to play against Nadal..Playing serve and net is probably a good way to stress Nadal but...first u ll have to be real good at covering net..having a good fast powerful and lucky serve at that day..i believe Nadal wasnot very much well prepared to face this knid of playing on clay for the very first moments..i thought he guesses..(not the time for Wimbledon kind of playing.).but though Burgs muller was good at second set..it ll never be enough to count on the net kind of playing ..cuz this takes a fast response to attack every time and thats not easy all the time..
its true Hinman played like that against Coria...but though it worked for a while ..it didnt last..cuz i believe it wasnot enough..its not the kind of playing to rely on completely with a clay court specialist ..be it Nadal..Coria..Gaudio..

one word for honesty:i am a fan of Nadal but..Muller was wonderful in the second set...dont know but he reminded me of Edberg..and (that Hinmanish way of playing in his best moments)
Nadal..Vamos..third set..he had some magical backhands..

nkhera1
05-23-2005, 11:24 PM
Nadal's serve is a lot harder to attack than it might look. He gets a lot of spin on it and kicks it up high, its virtually impossible to smack winners off unless he leaves it short.

I'd also say that Nadal is probably as good as they come at the moment in terms of ability on the passing shots off both wings. His backhand used to be a little weak but he's improved it no end and I wouldn't call it a weakness anymore. His speed around the court means he gives himself plenty of time on each pass.

Plus his serve spins away from you or directly into you making it very tough to hit consistent winners off of.

Puschkin
05-24-2005, 07:47 AM
there is no doubt that whoever beats nadal will have to do it by attacking him and especially his serve. nobody will just outlast him at the back of the court with the possible exception of coria. so...attack the serve and come to the net? sounds simple but who is good enough to do it?

I had exactly the same thoughts. Burgsmüller was not consistent enough, but he DID show the way.

MATTHIAS
05-24-2005, 11:16 AM
i thought the same as i watched the 2nd set yesterday
he showed how to beat Nadal, Burgsmüller ísn´t good enough to beat him, but he had few great points in the second set on the net.
i was really surprised how smart Lars played in the second set

Skyward
05-24-2005, 11:45 AM
who is good enough to do it? ..

Kafelnikov, lol.

athie
05-24-2005, 12:18 PM
Funny that…. How people’s perceptions of Lars have changed.
And yeah…. I’m being bloody sarcastic :mad:

JustmeUK
05-24-2005, 01:52 PM
it is maybe one way to beat Nadal. but there are serveral questions that are not easily answered. who today possesses that kind of consistency of net play to trouble Nadal for 5 sets? I don't think there is anyone who can. Not Henman. Federer? he's still not the consummate serve and volley player.

the other thing to remember of course is even s&v players of the calibre of Sampras/Edberg/Becker/Rafter have struggled to outplay the very best clay court exponents of their day and Nadal would surely be a match for any of the best clay courters of all time.

I really think that to beat Nadal will require a combination of someone who can rush the net and put Nadal under pressure but also someone who is comfortable to play him from the back and who has the groundstrokes to push him there too. again the only names that spring to mind are Federer and (to a lesser extent) Henman (probably not from the back). arguably Safin can play some sublime volleys too but I don't think he could maintain the level of netplay required. it serves to illustrate the dearth of really good netplay today.

Puschkin
05-24-2005, 02:11 PM
I don't think there is anyone who can. Not Henman. Federer? he's still not the consummate serve and volley player.


But Roche seems to try to hammer it into him ;)


the other thing to remember of course is even s&v players of the calibre of Sampras/Edberg/Becker/Rafter have struggled to outplay the very best clay court exponents of their day..


There are other examples, too. If I remember correctly, Edberg is 10/0 carrerwise against Thomas Muster and this includes matches on clay.


arguably Safin can play some sublime volleys too but I don't think he could maintain the level of netplay required.


But Marat is one of the few, who (on a good day) can also hit it out from the baseline with Nadal.

JustmeUK
05-24-2005, 02:19 PM
Muster?? A patzer. I'm surprised he's not 0-20 against Edberg :D.

Marat..? Marat can outplay anyone from the back (and I think from the front too. some of his volleys at Monte Carlo last year were sublime). But then there's oaf.. and oaf seems to come out so very often...