Top 5 ranking in each surface.. [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Top 5 ranking in each surface..

makro120
05-13-2005, 07:41 PM
If you would rank the 5 best in these 4 surfaces: clay, grass, hardcourt indoors and hardcourt outdoors how would it be?

DanEd
05-13-2005, 07:47 PM
Clay:
Nadal
Coria
Federer
Gaudio
Ferrero

Hardcourt
Federer
Agassi
Hewitt
Roddick
Safin


Grass
Federer
Roddick
Ancic
Hewitt
Grosjean

Carpet
Safin
Federer
Nalbandian
Roddick
Henman

Federerhingis
05-13-2005, 07:51 PM
Clay:
Nadal
Coria
Federer
Gaudio
Ferrero

Hardcourt
Federer
Hewitt
Roddick
Safin
Nalbandian


Grass
Federer
Roddick
Ancic
Hewitt
Grosjean

Carpet
Safin
Federer
Nalbandian
Roddick
Henman

I agree with you overall assesstment however, I think Henman on carpet is far more accomplished than both Roddick and Nalbandian, hes also got a very good game for the surface, probably better than the two aforementioned, maybe if you go by results but still he's won a few indoor masters hasnt he?

Blaze
05-13-2005, 07:54 PM
Clay:
Nadal
Coria
Federer
Gaudio
Ferrero

Hardcourt
Federer
Hewitt
Roddick
Safin
Nalbandian


Grass
Federer
Roddick
Ancic
Hewitt
Grosjean

Carpet
Safin
Federer
Nalbandian
Roddick
Henman

:yeah:

DanEd
05-13-2005, 07:57 PM
I agree with you overall assesstment however, I think Henman on carpet is far more accomplished than both Roddick and Nalbandian, hes also got a very good game for the surface, probably better than the two aforementioned, maybe if you go by results but still he's won a few indoor masters hasnt he?

maybe you are right but nalbandian is an underrated indoor player. he got a win and two finals in basel,and a final in tms. he had wins against roddick,federer, henman (one pretty easily), ancic and ljubicic.

Tennis Fool
05-13-2005, 07:58 PM
Are you talking about past results, or "if they played at their best"?

In case of the 2nd:

Hard: Safin
Clay: Safin
Carpet: Safin
Grass: Federer

makro120
05-13-2005, 08:02 PM
Are you talking about past results, or "if they played at their best"?

In case of the 2nd:

Hard: Safin
Clay: Safin
Carpet: Safin
Grass: Federer

Are you serious???? Specialy on clay, Safin has never done anything. The best I can remember Safin playing on clay was 6 years ago when he beat Guga in RG and one final some years ago where he lost against Guga in 5 sets.

makro120
05-13-2005, 08:04 PM
Safin is probably not even top 15 on clay.

mangoes
05-13-2005, 08:04 PM
Clay:
Nadal
Coria
Federer
Gaudio
Ferrero

Hardcourt
Federer
Agassi
Hewitt
Roddick
Safin


Grass
Federer
Roddick
Ancic
Hewitt
Grosjean

Carpet
Safin
Federer
Nalbandian
Roddick
Henman

I'd stick with this list.

Rogiman
05-13-2005, 08:05 PM
Are you serious???? Specialy on clay, Safin has never done anything. The best I can remember Safin playing on clay was 6 years ago when he beat Guga in RG and one final some years ago where he lost against Guga in 5 sets.

One French open SF, one QF (for sure - were there more?) and a couple TMS Hamburg finals, plus SF at TMS Monte Carlo, that's as far as I remember.

DanEd
05-13-2005, 08:08 PM
i made a change. i put agassi like the second best hardcourt player.

Tennis Fool
05-13-2005, 08:10 PM
Safin is probably not even top 15 on clay.
That's blasphemy. I'll wait for the Safinettes to get you :devil:

makro120
05-13-2005, 08:20 PM
Players I would probably rate above SAfin on clay:

Nadal
Federer
Coria
Gaudio
Ferrero
Moya
Nalbandian
Canas
Robredo
Ferrer
Volandri
Gonzales
Chela
Verdasco
Massu
Hewitt (!)
(Guga if he just can play as last year in the FO)

makro120
05-13-2005, 08:33 PM
I like Safin, but he doesn't have the mentality to play on clay, he makes too many errors aswell. Even fans of him understand this. Safin is the only hardcourt specialist I know in the tennis world. Out of the 15 tournaments he has won 13 has been on hard court/carpet, his latest nonhardcourt tournament was MAllorca 5 years ago. Safin can do some good games on clay as long as he doesn't face a good specialist.

Rogiman
05-13-2005, 08:38 PM
One French open SF, one QF (for sure - were there more?) and a couple TMS Hamburg finals, plus SF at TMS Monte Carlo, that's as far as I remember.

I forgot to mention Barcelona title and another Barcelona final...

mitalidas
05-13-2005, 08:39 PM
Are you talking about past results, or "if they played at their best"?

In case of the 2nd:

Hard: Safin
Clay: Safin
Carpet: Safin
Grass: Federer

what is it that safin has done on clay to get this honour?

Damita
05-13-2005, 08:40 PM
I like Safin, but he doesn't have the mentality to play on clay, he makes too many errors aswell. Even fans of him understand this. Safin is the only hardcourt specialist I know in the tennis world. Out of the 15 tournaments he has won 13 has been on hard court/carpet, his latest nonhardcourt tournament was MAllorca 5 years ago. Safin can do some good games on clay as long as he doesn't face a good specialist.
and Hewitt would be one of those specialists? :rolleyes: :scratch:

Asmus
05-13-2005, 08:47 PM
After today you could make an argument that Federer is better than Coria on clay. He leads their head-to-head 2-0 on the surface and is the reigning champion of a TMS on clay whereas Coria is not. In fact if Roger manages to beat Davydenko and Gasquet now he will have MORE TMS titles on clay as Coria. Also, if you're going to put Agassi ahead of Hewitt and Roddick on hardcourt (which I totally agree with), you should put Safin at #2.

Tennis Fool
05-13-2005, 09:44 PM
what is it that safin has done on clay to get this honour?
Beat both defedning champ Guga and next year's champ Agassi back-to-back at RG. Beat Ferrero in straight sets in Barcelona in 2003--the year Ferrero was at his best and Safin was beset with injuries. In fact he had to retire in the final because of his wrist, and was out of action most of the year thereafter.

Stevens Point
05-13-2005, 09:54 PM
What about Ljubicic on hardcourt?? Shouldn't he be ranked in top 5 there??

mitalidas
05-13-2005, 09:58 PM
Beat both defedning champ Guga and next year's champ Agassi back-to-back at RG. Beat Ferrero in straight sets in Barcelona in 2003--the year Ferrero was at his best and Safin was beset with injuries. In fact he had to retire in the final because of his wrist, and was out of action most of the year thereafter.


Okay.... but do we put George Bastl on the grass list for beating Sampras at Wimbledon? Or Joachim on hard for beating roddick?

Safin's title achievements on clay, to me, pale against those of Nadal, Kuerten and esp. Coria (2003-2004). To put him as "best" on clay, when he hasn't won a TMS on clay or the FO is so odd

Tennisfool, I hvae jumped forums to argue on new matters with you :p

Nastase
05-13-2005, 10:18 PM
- Actually:

Clay: Nadal, Coria, Federer, Gasquet, Gaudio
Grass: Federer, Hewitt, Roddick, Ancic, Grosjean
Hardcourt: Federer, Roddick, Agassi, Hewitt, Safin
Carpet: Federer, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Nalbandian

- All time:

Clay: Borg, Santana, Nastase, Muster, Ferrero, Guga
Grass: Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Becker, Federer, Connors
Hardcourt: Sampras, Federer, McEnroe, Borg, Agassi, Connors
Carpet: McEnroe, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Becker, Federer

Deboogle!.
05-13-2005, 10:58 PM
What about Ljubicic on hardcourt?? Shouldn't he be ranked in top 5 there??Considering the people on DanEd's list all won at least one hardcourt slam, I don't think so. Pretty good list but I agree that henman is arguably better on carpet. he did win Paris after all ;)

Tennis Fool
05-13-2005, 11:09 PM
Okay.... but do we put George Bastl on the grass list for beating Sampras at Wimbledon? Or Joachim on hard for beating roddick?

Safin's title achievements on clay, to me, pale against those of Nadal, Kuerten and esp. Coria (2003-2004). To put him as "best" on clay, when he hasn't won a TMS on clay or the FO is so odd

Tennisfool, I hvae jumped forums to argue on new matters with you :p
That's okay. Just call me the Fabrice Santoro of MTF ;)

Anyway, my point was "if he were playing at his best". Now, playing as OAF is another story. Plus you bring up one hit wonders, in your comparisons wiht Bastille and Joachim (at the moment).

Stevens Point
05-13-2005, 11:10 PM
Considering the people on DanEd's list all won at least one hardcourt slam, I don't think so.
Good point, but, Agassi, Roddick, and Hewitt,,, How long ago?? Roger wasn't even No.1 back then when they won their last slam(s). Even though Ljubicic hasn't won a title yet, his playing quality on hardcourt is great, isn't it? He almost beat Roger each time of the 3 meetings, and his key wins against Roddick and Agassi in Davis Cup on American soil should be also credited.

Sjengster
05-13-2005, 11:18 PM
I'll give Safin carpet and probably hard too (although that one is still debatable), but no way would I give him best on clay even if everyone is playing at their highest level. I'm not trying to suggest he's a bad claycourt player, and whatever makro says he is certainly in the Top 15 and indeed Top 10 of players on clay, but this surface is not the best for his game, despite his claims that it's his favourite to play on. He hits very flat and can start to miss with regularity against consistent players with more topspin like Ferrero, as seen in their last two meetings (and Safin was playing at a fairly high level in their Hamburg match this week). He also won a set against Coria 6-1 in Monte Carlo last year, suggesting he was playing lights-out tennis, but Coria was still the stronger player in the end and closed out the match because his style has better guarantees of succeeding on clay.

I find it hard to disagree with DanEd's list, maybe there would be disputes about the positioning of some of the players within each category but I would certainly have the five he mentioned for each surface.

NYCtennisfan
05-13-2005, 11:24 PM
Are you serious???? Specialy on clay, Safin has never done anything. The best I can remember Safin playing on clay was 6 years ago when he beat Guga in RG and one final some years ago where he lost against Guga in 5 sets.

Haven't you heard? Safin has never lost a match so of course he is the best on all surfaces!!

I like the first list except that I would list LH above Ancic on grass. The man beat Pete Sampras on grass. I know he was aging but still...

Sjengster
05-13-2005, 11:31 PM
Just to clarify, Safin on clay: one Barcelona title (2000), another Barcelona final (2003), QF and SF at RG (2000 and 2002), two finals at TMS Hamburg (2000 and 2002), SF at Monte Carlo (2004). He's never done well overall at either Monte Carlo or Rome, but I would be very surprised not to see him in the second week of RG again this year. I would be even more surprised if he didn't have at least one five-setter along the way...

JeNn
05-13-2005, 11:36 PM
Makro120, Safin is actually a very good player on clay, when he's not in a slump. If you think Safin has never done anything on clay then I don't know what you must think of your idol, Roger. Safin's record at Roland Garros is far superior. Of course, RG isn't the only thing to look at but Safin at his best is at least top ten, probably top 6 to 7 on clay. Safin's tendency to be erratic is magnified on the surface, but when he is playing well, he is deadly on the surface nevertheless.

Deboogle!.
05-13-2005, 11:45 PM
Good point, but, Agassi, Roddick, and Hewitt,,, How long ago?? Roger wasn't even No.1 back then when they won their last slam(s). Even though Ljubicic hasn't won a title yet, his playing quality on hardcourt is great, isn't it? He almost beat Roger each time of the 3 meetings, and his key wins against Roddick and Agassi in Davis Cup on American soil should be also credited.Huh? Hewitt was USO Finalist last year, AO finalist this year, USO winner. Andy is twice AO semifinalist and USO winner, and 3 time quarterfinalist. Roger won AO and is reigning USO champion and was semifinalist this year. and Safin is a USO champ and current AO champ. I don't think a couple of wins in Davis Cup really mean much - especially considering that Andy's record against Ljubicic is otherwise extremely lop-sided. Plus look at these guys' hardcourt records - what I just said doesn't even include all the hardcourt TMS and other titles they've won. Even Andre whose career is on the downswing won Cincinnati last year. I fail to see any compelling argument that Ljubicic is better on hardcourt than any of those 5 guys.

NYCtennisfan
05-13-2005, 11:45 PM
- All time:

Carpet: McEnroe, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Becker, Federer

I would put McEnroe, Sampras, Becker and Lendl at the top of this list. Becker won something like 35 of his 49 titles on carpet. When on his game and not injured, he was nearly invincible on carpet and beat Pete (in his prime) a few times on carpet and gave him major problems even when he lost.

makro120
05-14-2005, 12:17 AM
Safin can do good as long as he doesn't face clay specialists, they really know how to find his weakpoints and drive him nuts. You have to face clay specialists at some point in clay tournaments, so I am not surprised he hasn't won on clay since 2000. I think he was better when he was younger and made some great results against Guga and Ferrero, the older he gets he seems to become worse on this surface. I think Hewitt is a greater clay court player because I think Hewitt is better on clay today, last year he did have some great results and I think he is slightly deveopping on clay, while Safin is just giving up.

makro120
05-14-2005, 12:33 AM
Hewitt has not done a great deal on clay in whole career. He got the QF of RG last year through a peach of a draw, Di Pasquale, Melzer, Verkerk and Malisse before being destroyed by Gaudio.

He's never even reached a clay court final let alone win a title so I can't really agree that he's better than Safin on the dirt.

Yeah, I guess you are right. But Safin hasn't done much the latest 3 years. He is 25-12 while Hewitt is 20-8 since 2003, I would say they are pretty much as good today on clay. Safin didn't hit as hard when he was younger, I think he was then a better clay player than today, I admit I am exagerating saying Hewitt is better, but the differense is not big at all between them.

trulliscorpion
05-14-2005, 12:35 AM
Clay:

Nadal
Coria
Gaudio
Gasquet
Federer

Grass:

Federer
Roddick
Grosjean
Ancic
Philippoussis

Hard:

Federer
Hewitt
Safin
Roddick
Ljubicic (this year)

Carpet:

Safin
Federer
Henman
Nalbandian
Novak (did great last year)

It doesn't change much from the first post though.

makro120
05-14-2005, 12:38 AM
It is hard to know where to place Federer on carpet as since he began his world domination era post-2004 he hasn't played any big tournaments on carpet.

rocketrajic
05-14-2005, 12:42 AM
Actually(not the whole career), the top 5 in each surfaces:

Clay:

Nadal
Coria
Gaudio
Federer
Gasquet

Grass:

Federer
Roddick
Ancic
Hewitt
J. Johansson

Hard:

Federer
Hewitt
Safin
Ljubicic
Roddick

Carpet:

Safin
Federer
Nalbandian
Henman
Roddick

FERD
05-14-2005, 12:57 AM
HO

1- Federer
2- Safin
3- Nadal
4- Hewitt
5- Roddick

HI

1- Safin
2- Federer
3- Nadal
4- Nalbandian
5- Hewitt

Grass

1- Federer
2- Henman
3- Roddick
4- Nalbandian
5- Hewitt

Clay

1- Nadal
2- Coria
3- Federer
4- Gaudio
5- Nalbandian

makro120
05-14-2005, 12:59 AM
Ok, I think I am quite sure to have Federer ahead of NAdal on clay, not because he has proofed it but becasue I am predicting he will proof it the coming weeks so it would be foolish to think NAdal is the greatest clay court player and at the same time bet everything on Federer in RG. But you know, they haven't faced each other, Federer won in a just as convincing way against Coria and no one can really tell who would win a match between them. Also NAdal is a boy with big dreams while Federer is a man with goals in his life, this I think will decide the battle between them.

Clay:

Federer
Nadal
Coria
Gasquet
Ferrero

Grass:

Federer
Hewitt
J. Johansson
Roddick
Henman

Hard:

Federer
Safin
Hewitt
Agassi
Nalbandian

Carpet:

Safin
Federer
Nalbandian
Agassi
Henman

tangerine_dream
05-14-2005, 01:18 AM
What about Ljubicic on hardcourt?? Shouldn't he be ranked in top 5 there??
Why? What has he won?

Rogiman
05-14-2005, 01:20 AM
Joachim Johansson in the top 5 grass courters in the world :scared: :confused:

I also find it funny that people keep mentioning him as a threat on grass.

It reminds me of how people were expecting Verkerk to succeed on grass after his great RG run in 2003, because seemingly he had the serve and the strokes - when realistically he used huge swings on his strokes that could have never worked on grass.

But Johansson makes me miss Verkerk with his limited tennis, and I hope his serve alone won't win him matches no matter the surface, and more than anything - what in the world has he achieved on grass so far that he's even mentioned in this thread among these great players? :confused:

WyveN
05-14-2005, 01:27 AM
C
Ancic

Has a impressive grass resume given that his young and would start favourite over just about everyone apart from the big 3 at Wimbledon.

Chloe le Bopper
05-14-2005, 01:28 AM
Players I would probably rate above SAfin on clay:

Nadal
Federer
Coria
Gaudio
Ferrero
Moya
Nalbandian
Canas
Robredo
Ferrer
Volandri
Gonzales
Chela
Verdasco
Massu
Hewitt (!)
(Guga if he just can play as last year in the FO)
:haha:

Yeah huh?

Safin would sneak into my top 5, depending on the criteria.

Corey Feldman
05-14-2005, 01:30 AM
clay
Nadal
Coria
Ferrero
Volandri
Gaudio
Grass
Federer
Roddick
Hewitt
Ancic
Henman
I Hard
Federer
Safin
Henman
Ljubicic
J.Johansson
O Hard
Federer
Hewitt
Roddick
Agassi
Safin

Deivid23
05-14-2005, 01:36 AM
Hardcourt Outdoors

1- Federer
2- Safin
3- Nadal
4- Agassi
5- Hewitt

Hardcourt Indoors

1- Federer
2- Safin
3- Hewitt
4- Roddick
5- Ljubicic

Grass

1- Federer
2- Roddick
3- Hewitt
4- Ancic
5- Henman

Clay

1- Nadal
2- Coria
3- Federer
4- Ferrero
5- Gaudio

Carpet

1- Safin
2- Federer
3- Hewitt
4- Henman
5- Roddick

willie
05-14-2005, 01:41 AM
Hardcourts
Federer
Safin
Hewitt
Agassi
Roddick

Clay
Nadal
Coria
Federer
Gaudio
Ferrero

Grass
Federer
Hewitt
Roddick
Henman
Ancic

Rogiman
05-14-2005, 01:49 AM
Ancic is in everyone's top 5 list on grass :scared:

Silly, I agree.

He may well justify it in the future, but so far only one word would be appropriate: Overrated

bad gambler
05-14-2005, 01:52 AM
Grass
Federer
Hewitt
Roddick
Grosjean
Henman

Hardcourt
Federer
Hewitt
Roddick
Safin
Ljubicic


Clay
Nadal
Federer
Coria
Gaudio
Gasquet

Carpet
Safin
Federer
Henman
Hewitt
Stepanek

Rogiman
05-14-2005, 01:53 AM
Couldn't agree more. Not mentally strong enough to ever win a slam I'm afraid. ;)

You're israeli aren't you...? :)

bad gambler
05-14-2005, 01:54 AM
Silly, I agree.

He may well justify it in the future, but so far only one word would be appropriate: Overrated
totally agree - as far as im concerned he is a flash in pan until he backs up his performance from last year

henman, and grosjean far more consistent over the past few years

bad gambler
05-14-2005, 01:57 AM
and to those who have ferrero in their top 5 on clay - what are we basing this on? past year performance or career? if past year how do u justify his inclusion?

DanEd
05-14-2005, 02:00 AM
and to those who have ferrero in their top 5 on clay - what are we basing this on? past year performance or career? if past year how do u justify his inclusion?

a montecarlo semis and a godo final

Chloe le Bopper
05-14-2005, 02:00 AM
...Also NAdal is a boy with big dreams while Federer is a man with goals in his life, this I think will decide the battle between them.

Best. Post. Ever.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Chloe le Bopper
05-14-2005, 02:03 AM
Ancic is in everyone's top 5 list on grass :scared:
Seeing as the grass season is like, one week long, they probably just ran out of ideas. Also, if you are only really considering the last year... then it sort of makes sense. However it seems that everybody has different criteria, so. This is why I didn't make any lists yet.

bad gambler
05-14-2005, 02:03 AM
a montecarlo semis and a godo final


ok

I included gasquet becuase im a bandwagon jumper :D

Federerhingis
05-14-2005, 02:06 AM
- Actually:

Clay: Nadal, Coria, Federer, Gasquet, Gaudio
Grass: Federer, Hewitt, Roddick, Ancic, Grosjean
Hardcourt: Federer, Roddick, Agassi, Hewitt, Safin
Carpet: Federer, Safin, Hewitt, Roddick, Nalbandian

- All time:

Clay: Borg, Santana, Nastase, Muster, Ferrero, Guga
Grass: Sampras, McEnroe, Borg, Becker, Federer, Connors
Hardcourt: Sampras, Federer, McEnroe, Borg, Agassi, Connors
Carpet: McEnroe, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Becker, Federer

I agree with all of your rankings except for putting Federer ahead of Agassi for all time on hardcourts, I mean Agassi has won 2 US opens, didnt he? Hes won like who knows how many was it 15 masters titles which probably 12 of those or 13 were on hard courts. I would also put Agassi ahead of Borg on Harcourts, its tough to say you may want to put Agassi ahead of Sampras on harcourts, but if you look at it, if Agassi indeed has won 2 US opens hes won 6 slam tiltes on hardcourt only one behind Sampras 7 slam wins on hardcourts. Actually on slower hardcourts, like Indian Wells, Miami and the Aussie open Agassi would be a favored over Sampras (given that both were at their peeks). Nonetheless, overall very good choices.

Deivid23
05-14-2005, 02:06 AM
Silly, I agree.

He may well justify it in the future, but so far only one word would be appropriate: Overrated

My list is made thinking about the players I rate higher and I have no doubt Ancic´s best surface is grass and he should do it very well in Wimbledon this year. I rate his chances just below Federer, Roddick and Hewitt. If you think that´s silly nothing much I can do about. We will see.

Deivid23
05-14-2005, 02:09 AM
and to those who have ferrero in their top 5 on clay - what are we basing this on? past year performance or career? if past year how do u justify his inclusion?

Based in the fact that he´s picking up his level (I´ve seen 12 of his last 16 matches on clay) and he´s now more or less at 90% his best. Enough to rate him in top 5.

Sjengster
05-14-2005, 02:14 AM
Gaudio's won three titles on clay this year, sure they're not the big events but his win-loss record on clay since the WTC last year is more than enough to put him in the Top 5 of claycourt players.

Chloe le Bopper
05-14-2005, 02:15 AM
ok

I included gasquet becuase im a bandwagon jumper :D
That and he's clearly a bonified claycourter. Just check out those results!

Oh, I kid. Well... sort of.

Rogiman
05-14-2005, 02:18 AM
My list is made thinking about the players I rate higher and I have no doubt Ancic´s best surface is grass and he should do it very well in Wimbledon this year. I rate his chances just below Federer, Roddick and Hewitt. If you think that´s silly nothing much I can do about. We will see.

No offense was intended and I'm sorry it turned out that way.
I guess I said that not because one or two posters included Ancic in their lists but rather because it was very common.
I would expect few posters to name Ancic, but not virtually everyone, hence the surprise.
I agree grass suits his game most, and wouldn't be surprised if he succeeded at Wimbledon, but for now I can't see what makes him such a clear prospect.

NYCtennisfan
05-14-2005, 02:18 AM
I included gasquet becuase im a bandwagon jumper

LOL BG. Is GWH around to chide you? :)

makro120
05-14-2005, 02:19 AM
I also find it funny that people keep mentioning him as a threat on grass.

It reminds me of how people were expecting Verkerk to succeed on grass after his great RG run in 2003, because seemingly he had the serve and the strokes - when realistically he used huge swings on his strokes that could have never worked on grass.

But Johansson makes me miss Verkerk with his limited tennis, and I hope his serve alone won't win him matches no matter the surface, and more than anything - what in the world has he achieved on grass so far that he's even mentioned in this thread among these great players? :confused:

He is the only player I really fear in Federer's walk to his 3rd wimbledon. Johansson is not a normal tennis player, his game is all about not giving any oppurtunity to his opponent to decide the game whatever it may cost. Johansson lost the match against Agassi, Agassi only watched Johansson play with himself, hitting with alot of force and no brain most often on the net and sometimes winners. The most horrible kind of tennis I have ever witnessed, but I was quite fascinated I must admit. Had they played in wimbledon Johansson would have another 10 aces and it would be easier to win fast points.

Johansson has not done much on grass but he is a lateboomer kind of player and only really grew after that USOPEN win against Roddick. Now he had some bad months, but I expect him to be back with all his power and antitennis to wimbledon in upgraded form. So be afraid, be very afraid... :scared:

Deivid23
05-14-2005, 02:23 AM
No offense was intended and I'm sorry it turned out that way.
I guess I said that not because one or two posters included Ancic in their lists but rather because it was very common.
I would expect few posters to name Ancic, but not virtually everyone, hence the surprise.
I agree grass suits his game most, and wouldn't be surprised if he succeeded at Wimbledon, but for now I can't see what makes him such a clear prospect.

No problem, not offended cause I know u r not of that kind ;) .

But here´s a question to all those who think Ancic should not be in top 5 in grass. Apart from Federer, Roddick and Hewitt, who do u think that have more chances than Ancic this year in Wimbledon?

Federerhingis
05-14-2005, 02:23 AM
He is the only player I really fear in Federer's walk to his 3rd wimbledon. Johansson is not a normal tennis player, his game is all about not giving any oppurtunity to his opponent to decide the game whatever it may cost. Johansson lost the match against Agassi, Agassi only watched Johansson play with himself, hitting with alot of force and no brain most often on the net and sometimes winners. The most horrible kind of tennis I have ever witnessed, but I was quite fascinated I must admit. Had they played in wimbledon Johansson would have another 10 aces and it would be easier to win fast points.

Johansson has not done much on grass but he is a lateboomer kind of player and only really grew after that USOPEN win against Roddick. Now he had some bad months, but I expect him to be back with all his power and antitennis to wimbledon in upgraded form. So be afraid, be very afraid... :scared:


Actually both Ancic and Pim Pim will cause some damage a wimby if they can find their ranges, if both are in form they will be tough to beat. Ancic has a more complete game and he can actually volley pretty well. These two will certainly challenge Federer for the title he treasures the most. Of course if they happen to cross their paths on Rogers draw.

Sjengster
05-14-2005, 02:25 AM
He's also lost to C Rochus, taken 1 game off Ferrer and 3 games off Nadal though :unsure:

True, but as Chloe pointed out there aren't any clear criteria established for these lists; I'm assuming they're based on results on a surface over the past year, so Gaudio easily makes the Top 5. If we were ever to judge him week in week out on any surface, he wouldn't come off well. ;)

makro120
05-14-2005, 02:28 AM
I don't think Roger will be losing any sleep about the prospect of playing PimPim at Wimbledon :D

Neither do I, but Johansson would be a monster for Federer to face in let us say 4th round in wimbledon. Federer hasn't faced him before and might not really know what to expect, Johansson will come in all pumped up and with the mentality to not give Federer any chanse to find rythm in the game. Johansson will simply rather make terrible errors by hitting the ball without any thinking and the whole game will be about Johansson hitting the ball with all his power, either a winner or error. While he will be holding his serve with 2-3 aces/game....

Can it really get much more dangerous than this for Federer in wimbledon than that?

Than tell me what it would be..

Chloe le Bopper
05-14-2005, 02:30 AM
I assume that Ancic made so many lists because he was one of 4 people to make the Wimbledon semis last year. Depending on your criteria, that makes perfect sense :shrug:

Deivid23
05-14-2005, 02:31 AM
I know I know....He was on my list too. I just like being controversial. Although my points about Ancic were serious, no way should he be above the likes of Hewitt, Roddick, Henman and Grosjean on grass.

Henman -> He was schooled last year by Mario, Tim´s best days are gone and Mario normally should improve bc of his age.

Grosjean -> He´s a real shadow of himself these days.

Sjengster
05-14-2005, 02:31 AM
No, Ancic shouldn't be above Roddick or Hewitt, but I do think he deserves a place in the shortlist of grass players - the question is whether it should be him or Henman. I'm surprised you mention that he lost easily to Roddick, considering that he was the only man besides Federer to take sets off him on grass last year, in both their Queens and Wimbledon matches. We can go on about the rights and wrongs of Roddick using the threat of rain to his advantage in the latter match, but I'm sure Ancic would have won at Queens if he hadn't thrown in one sloppy service game at 2-2 in the final set. He has the talent and the application to win Wimbledon, and if anyone young were to take the title from Federer I sincerely hope it would be him rather than Roddick or Bore-Bore Johansson.

Deboogle!.
05-14-2005, 02:37 AM
I assume that Ancic made so many lists because he was one of 4 people to make the Wimbledon semis last year. Depending on your criteria, that makes perfect sense :shrug:But he also lost to Coria on grass ;)

Sorry, I couldn't resist :p

Sjengster
05-14-2005, 02:38 AM
For Safin on grass, see Ljubicic and Verkerk. His problems really aren't that different to theirs on the surface, even though he obviously has more all-round talent.

I think a lot of people are starting to panic about Johansson solely on the misleading evidence of that AO match with Agassi. In case you don't remember, Johansson was severely fatigued going into that match from his 13-11 fifth set finish against Lopez in the previous round and had a deliberate tactic of going for winners off the first ball to keep the points short. That's not to say that his game isn't power-based and explosive, but it usually involves a little more point construction and patience than he displayed against Agassi.

Sjengster
05-14-2005, 02:40 AM
What about our great young hope Andy Murray :banana:

Yes, I too can't wait to see Andy serving his trademark thunderbolts en route to Wimbledon glory this year.

Deivid23
05-14-2005, 02:44 AM
Might sound surprising, but since the Wimbledon grass is no longer as fast as it used to be I think every decent player has a chance to succeed there just like in any other tournament (this is not to suggest Coria or Nadal are guaranteed to go as far as at RG), therefore the usual suspects: Safin (yes, him, I don't buy that crap about him being unable to play there - he's made the quarters once and there's no reason he couldn't do it again), Nalbandian, in addition to Stepanek, Mirnyi, and even Nadal.
Ancic is right up there with them, but I don't think he has a better chance.

I can accept Nalbandian concerning potential, besides he´s a terrible match-up for Mario. But I have the feeling this year (all the things that have happened to him) is not the best for him to bounce back and have some big impact on the Slams, just gut feeling.

Stepanjerk can do well there, but I think he has not going further of 3rd round there, though I smell his improvement could make him top that result. Anyway, I don´t think he can reach SF as Mario did last year.

Mirnyi´s abilities at return games will avoid any significant impact in Wimbledon.

Still too soon for Nadal to make significant impact, but with the kid you never know, maybe he will surprise me.

ys
05-14-2005, 02:54 AM
Hardcourts

1-2- Federer, Safin
3 Hewitt
4 Roddick
5 Agassi


Indoors

1- Safin

No one else is even worth mentioning.


Grass

1- Federer
2- Hewitt
3- Roddick
4- Henman
5- Philippoussis

Clay

1. Federer
2. Nadal
3 Coria
4 Ferrero
5- Safin

WyveN
05-14-2005, 03:08 AM
See above points, I really don't agree. He beat a totally out of sorts Federer and a pretty woeful Henman at Wimbledon.


Given his age, those results show tremendous potential. Most players take a while before they are truly comfortable on grass.]

Look at some of the players Federer,sampras, Ivanisevic, Krajicek, Rafter lost to early on in their grass careers. Whats more important is how well he has played on grass on a few occasions.


Also Grosjean has a fabulous record at both those tournaments. Even Philippoussis would have to be ahead in terms of achievements. Age can't really come into it, Ancic isn't that young anymore

His 21 and will probably have a relatively big Wimbledon this year.
Grosjean and Mark P have accomplished more on grass but no way would they be favourite over Ancic based on current form.

Billy Moonshine
05-14-2005, 03:19 AM
Clay:
Nadal
Gaudio
Coria
Ferrero
Federer

Grass:
Federer
Roddick
Hewitt
Henman
Grosjean

Hard:
Federer
Safin
Roddick
Hewitt
Agassi

Indoor
Safin
Federer
Roddick
Hewitt
Nalbandian

Black Adam
05-14-2005, 09:44 AM
Grass:

Federer
Hewitt
J. Johansson
Roddick
Henman

Hard:

Federer
Safin
Hewitt
Agassi
Nalbandian


Really! I don't know how Pim Pim is a better grasscourter than Andy or Tim......even Ancic is ahead of him ;)
As for Nalby I would put him 6th ;)

User ID 4783
05-14-2005, 10:16 AM
Hard outdoors

Federer
Hewitt
Safin
Agassi
Roddick

Hard indoors

Safin
Federer
Hewitt
Nalbandian
Henman

Clay

Federer
Nadal
Coria
Gaudio
Ferrero

Grass

Federer
Roddick
Hewitt
Henman
Grosjean