The Kid beats the King 6-1 7-6(4) 6-3 to win Barcelona [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

The Kid beats the King 6-1 7-6(4) 6-3 to win Barcelona

Nacho
04-24-2005, 05:48 PM
Congrats Rafa!! Too good!

And good to see Juanqui is finally back!!

~EMiLiTA~
04-24-2005, 05:50 PM
BIEN HECHO RAFA!!!!! http://www.mainzelahr.de/smile/huepfend/10.gif http://www.mainzelahr.de/smile/huepfend/10.gif http://www.mainzelahr.de/smile/huepfend/10.gif

SO GOOD!!!

also good to see JC's getting back to where he was!!!

Corinna
04-24-2005, 05:51 PM
:worship: rafa & jc
glad to see juanqui back finally :D

tennischick
04-24-2005, 05:52 PM
nice title :lol:

congrats Rafa :banana: :banana:

tennis4eva
04-24-2005, 05:52 PM
:worship: Rafa!

Exodus
04-24-2005, 05:52 PM
JCF is not the King anymore

TheBoiledEgg
04-24-2005, 05:52 PM
its scary how good Fetus is :scared:

good to see JC back though
done enough to get seeded for RG, now can he make top 20 by RG.

Chloe le Bopper
04-24-2005, 05:52 PM
New world number 7 too ;)

Jorge
04-24-2005, 05:53 PM
This Kid is a serious threat for winning RG!!!

what a brilliant perfomance and such a way to dismantle Ferrero! :eek: well done, Rafel! another week, another title :yippee:

MrOschie
04-24-2005, 05:53 PM
rafa :woohoo:

Sjengster
04-24-2005, 05:54 PM
From 46 to 7 in the space of three months... I see a little of 2003 Coria in Nadal, only more so.

Auscon
04-24-2005, 05:57 PM
anyone know how many players have won a grand slam on their first crack at it?

Sjengster
04-24-2005, 05:57 PM
BTW, is Ferrero "back to his best"? Clearly he's at a higher level now than he was for the whole of last year, but would a peak 2003 Ferrero have been clocked on clay by Coria and Nadal in successive weeks? I'm speculating here, I don't have a definite opinion either way, but I have a nasty feeling that Ferrero against claycourt rivals he used to dominate could become like Hewitt against 2004/05 Federer; in other words, still playing at the same level, but the opposition has improved so much that the results begin to change.

moon_grave
04-24-2005, 05:57 PM
Congrats Raffa !!! Wow, has totally beaten everyone out there.!!!

TAKE RG CROWN NOW..!!!

Golfnduck
04-24-2005, 05:57 PM
WAY TO GO RAFA!!!!!!!

User id 7816
04-24-2005, 05:58 PM
Great tourney Juan Carlos!!!!..:clap2:...I'm so happy for JC for making the final and beginning to play great again, he's coming closer to what he was :worship: He should do great in the next tourneys too!!!:D

Nadal is so super strong physically and mentally, and noone matches his fighting spirit right now. If someone wants to beat him they'll have to match all this. Congrats to him and may he keep it up! :)

In_Disguise
04-24-2005, 06:01 PM
Yep, the kid certainly has now beaten everyone on clay...everyone, apart from his Nemesis - Lleyton Hewitt - the guy who can beat him at his own game. That's a match i would like to see! :wavey:

Nacho
04-24-2005, 06:02 PM
I think we already know who should get the 2005 Most improved player award...

Auscon
04-24-2005, 06:03 PM
Yep, the kid certainly has now beaten everyone on clay...everyone, apart from his Nemesis - Lleyton Hewitt - the guy who can beat him at his own game. That's a match i would like to see! :wavey:

I'd run through the city naked if Lleyton were able to beat Nadal on clay

Cris
04-24-2005, 06:03 PM
Congrats, Rafael!!! :banana:

Glad to see Juanqui back in form :yeah:

ugotlobbed
04-24-2005, 06:04 PM
look at so many buddhist just kidding lol...gj to alll

Raquel
04-24-2005, 06:04 PM
BTW, is Ferrero "back to his best"? Clearly he's at a higher level now than he was for the whole of last year, but would a peak 2003 Ferrero have been clocked on clay by Coria and Nadal in successive weeks? I'm speculating here, I don't have a definite opinion either way, but I have a nasty feeling that Ferrero against claycourt rivals he used to dominate could become like Hewitt against 2004/05 Federer; in other words, still playing at the same level, but the opposition has improved so much that the results begin to change.
Well he has beaten Safin and Gaudio in the last 2 weeks. Led Coria 4-0 in the second set in Monte Carlo and Nadal is clocking just about everyone (except Igor :worship: :p). The 4-0 against Coria is a 'could have been', but he has done really well in the last 2 weeks - only Nadal has done better. I think he can do well next week again in Estoril and the Masters Series events and by RG he hopefully will be another level better than this week.

Chloe le Bopper
04-24-2005, 06:04 PM
anyone know how many players have won a grand slam on their first crack at it?
I don't know how many, but I'm pretty sure Wilander did it at RG. Not that I think Nadal is going to :p

Deivid23
04-24-2005, 06:06 PM
Yep, the kid certainly has now beaten everyone on clay...everyone, apart from his Nemesis - Lleyton Hewitt - the guy who can beat him at his own game. That's a match i would like to see! :wavey:

I want to see next Hewitt vs Nadal on hc, cause I think Nadal is now ready to beat him. On clay, as much as I like Lleyton, he has little chance

In_Disguise
04-24-2005, 06:06 PM
I'd run through the city naked if Lleyton were able to beat Nadal on clay

Who won all the matches between Hewitt and Nadal?! Lleyton has never lost to Nadal. 3-0

Auscon
04-24-2005, 06:07 PM
I want to see next Hewitt vs Nadal on hc, cause I think Nadal is now ready to beat him.

I know the kids good, but he's not that good :)

Deivid23
04-24-2005, 06:08 PM
I know the kids good, but he's not that good :)

Looking forward to that match ;)

User ID 4783
04-24-2005, 06:09 PM
congrats Rafa, and it's nice to see JC regain some of his old strength again :)

Chloe le Bopper
04-24-2005, 06:09 PM
Seeing as Hewitt struggled against Nadal for a while in their Toronto match and certainly in their AO match, I don't see why anybody would scoff at the suggestion that Nadal could beat him on the surface. Frankly, Hewitt is still the favourite on a hardcourt, but it's not as if he's been winning his matches against Nadal 2 and 3.

mandoura
04-24-2005, 06:10 PM
its scary how good Fetus is :scared:

good to see JC back though
done enough to get seeded for RG, now can he make top 20 by RG.

I think he can. With his new found confidence, I really hope he will do it. :)

joeb_uk
04-24-2005, 06:11 PM
BTW, is Ferrero "back to his best"? Clearly he's at a higher level now than he was for the whole of last year, but would a peak 2003 Ferrero have been clocked on clay by Coria and Nadal in successive weeks? I'm speculating here, I don't have a definite opinion either way, but I have a nasty feeling that Ferrero against claycourt rivals he used to dominate could become like Hewitt against 2004/05 Federer; in other words, still playing at the same level, but the opposition has improved so much that the results begin to change.
I was thinking the same, a top form ferrero wouldnt lose that easily to ugly boy and coria. Hes getting back to form, the same as coria is but i feel both still have a way to go

MisterQ
04-24-2005, 06:11 PM
anyone know how many players have won a grand slam on their first crack at it?

As Chloe said, I believe Wilander won RG on his first attempt. :worship:

Agassi won the Australian Open on his first attempt. Unusual situation, though, since he didn't play it until 1995. ;)

Borg and Kuerten won RG on his second attempt. Same with Becker at Wimbledon. :bowdown:

It would be remarkable if Nadal could do it.

mandoura
04-24-2005, 06:12 PM
New world number 7 too ;)

#7? Wow, great news. I thought he was going to be #8. All the better. :D

justClaudia
04-24-2005, 06:14 PM
Rafa congrats! :woohoo: :banana:

In_Disguise
04-24-2005, 06:15 PM
Seeing as Hewitt struggled against Nadal for a while in their Toronto match and certainly in their AO match, I don't see why anybody would scoff at the suggestion that Nadal could beat him on the surface. Frankly, Hewitt is still the favourite on a hardcourt, but it's not as if he's been winning his matches against Nadal 2 and 3.

True, but he's one guy who can rally with Nadal from the back successfully. Ferrero, Coria don't seem to have the fitness or form at the moment to do so...Over 5 sets, I don't think even Fed could stay with him...

Of course, there's Safin, who can blow anyone of the court on any surface when he decides to show up...he can certainly batter Nadal given his great power on serve and off the ground...but again, i think he's sleeping at the moment...

Alvarillo
04-24-2005, 06:18 PM
is the first final lost by Juan carlos in which i'm happy :)
he played a fantastic match since the second set, JC has comeback, now i'm sure although is a defeat, but i prefer today's match than victory against Montañés or Davydenko.
i hope JC will make a great tournament in Estoril
Congrats Kid, you're amazing!

Auscon
04-24-2005, 06:18 PM
Seeing as Hewitt struggled against Nadal for a while in their Toronto match and certainly in their AO match, I don't see why anybody would scoff at the suggestion that Nadal could beat him on the surface. Frankly, Hewitt is still the favourite on a hardcourt, but it's not as if he's been winning his matches against Nadal 2 and 3.

I didnt exactly 'scoff' at at it

You could say I did if I didnt include the smiley :) like so...

Alls I know is when those 2 play eachother, it's effin awesome stuff

Though I dont think the AO match wouldve been as close as it was if his injury didnt flare up....with all the running and getting onto the high topspin of Rafa's shots, it wouldve put more strain on it than playing against any other player

Armada~121
04-24-2005, 06:19 PM
BTW, is Ferrero "back to his best"? Clearly he's at a higher level now than he was for the whole of last year, but would a peak 2003 Ferrero have been clocked on clay by Coria and Nadal in successive weeks? I'm speculating here, I don't have a definite opinion either way, but I have a nasty feeling that Ferrero against claycourt rivals he used to dominate could become like Hewitt against 2004/05 Federer; in other words, still playing at the same level, but the opposition has improved so much that the results begin to change.

I have no idea whether JC is "back to his best" either. It's clear now that he's back to a good form he once has, but is he the same JC in 2003? Ok, I don't have any solid proof here and I too am speculating. But I agree with you that JC might be as good as he was in 2003 now, but other people just get better...like the Hewitt comparison. By being forced out of the top for a year, JC didn't have much chance to keep up with the game's best talents.

Of course, this is not to say he never will. He might need more time to catch up and if he does, he would no longer be "as good as he once was", but even better than he ever was. I think his better results in the past few weeks are a good indicator that he's catching up. Now he might be as good as his 2003 version, but within two or three months, he might be able to develop the newest, 2005 version to compete with the rest of the game.

Auscon
04-24-2005, 06:20 PM
#7? Wow, great news. I thought he was going to be #8. All the better. :D


I thought he was going to be #9 :)

mandoura
04-24-2005, 06:20 PM
As Chloe said, I believe Wilander won RG on his first attempt. :worship:

Agassi won the Australian Open on his first attempt. Unusual situation, though, since he didn't play it until 1995. ;)

Borg and Kuerten won RG on his second attempt. Same with Becker at Wimbledon. :bowdown:

It would be remarkable if Nadal could do it.

Yes it would be quite an achievement. I don't think he will do it this year though. Something tells me keep your expectations under control so if it happens, the win will be much sweeter. ;)

Allure
04-24-2005, 06:21 PM
Wow Rafael :eek: I'm starting to like this kid more and more. Never ceased to amaze me. :worship:

Ferrero, nice try ;)

roisin
04-24-2005, 06:24 PM
congrats to rafy, its damn scary how good he is and how much damn energy he has! :eek:

i'm happy bout jc's result tho :)
its a welcome change to 1st round losses!

mandoura
04-24-2005, 06:25 PM
I have no idea whether JC is "back to his best" either. It's clear now that he's back to a good form he once has, but is he the same JC in 2003? Ok, I don't have any solid proof here and I too am speculating. But I agree with you that JC might be as good as he was in 2003 now, but other people just get better...like the Hewitt comparison. By being forced out of the top for a year, JC didn't have much chance to keep up with the game's best talents.

Of course, this is not to say he never will. He might need more time to catch up and if he does, he would no longer be "as good as he once was", but even better than he ever was. I think his better results in the past few weeks are a good indicator that he's catching up. Now he might be as good as his 2003 version, but within two or three months, he might be able to develop the newest, 2005 version to compete with the rest of the game.

Again, speculating: I think he is still not at his best level. His shots lack some precision and too many df. But he is heading in the right direction. And I fully agree with your last sentence. :)

safdem
04-24-2005, 06:27 PM
fererro...:sad:..........oh well it has been a good week


:yeah: nadal.

Deivid23
04-24-2005, 06:28 PM
JCF is at his 70% I´d say. His fh is still far away from being that killer weapon it once was. And his serve is back to old times in which it sucked. A pity bc he really had improved it...

alexito
04-24-2005, 06:30 PM
yessssssssssssssssssssssssssss rafaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
very soon, the kid will be the kind. and rafa will be the only player spanish in top ten.

mandoura
04-24-2005, 06:30 PM
JCF is at his 70% I´d say. His fh is still far away from being that killer weapon it once was. And his serve is back to old times in which it sucked. A pity bc he really had improved it...

Yes, I agree.

But I think El-Mosquito is preparing for a malaria attack. ;)

KCVH
04-24-2005, 06:40 PM
Well done Rafa

ae wowww
04-24-2005, 06:40 PM
Thanks for more vcash Rafael :)

mandoura
04-24-2005, 06:41 PM
Thanks for more vcash Rafael :)

Absolutely. A sure bet these days. ;)

lalaland
04-24-2005, 06:47 PM
I was thinking the same, a top form ferrero wouldnt lose that easily to ugly boy and coria. Hes getting back to form, the same as coria is but i feel both still have a way to go

I also second Sjengster's thought. Ferrero is not the same Ferrero in 2003, or is it just my wishful thinking that he can still do better than he is now. His confident level is not as high, plus the intimidation factor is completely gone. He still has some way to go.

However, he did get back some of the form, so he is not losing early round anymore, which is good to know. BTW, beating Safin is not that special these days, don't you think?

Sjengster
04-24-2005, 06:59 PM
Absolutely. A sure bet these days. ;)

2002/early 2003 must have been sheer hell for the gamblers of the tennis community, mustn't they? Imagine the losses people made on Verkerk's matches at RG. :lol:

joeb_uk
04-24-2005, 07:01 PM
I also second Sjengster's thought. Ferrero is not the same Ferrero in 2003, or is it just my wishful thinking that he can still do better than he is now. His confident level is not as high, plus the intimidation factor is completely gone. He still has some way to go.

However, he did get back some of the form, so he is not losing early round anymore, which is good to know. BTW, beating Safin is not that special these days, don't you think?
beating safin doesnt really mean anything at this time (as you say), there are at least 10/20 players who are playing better tennis than him atm. I would like to see safin against nadal though, would be quite interesting.

Jennay
04-24-2005, 07:03 PM
Fantastic tournament, Rafa! :worship: #7 :D

Same for Ferrero. :hug: It's good to see him getting to finals. Hopefully he will win one soon.

gooner88
04-24-2005, 07:10 PM
Well done Rafa, the kid's on fire!!
Nice to see ferrero going deep in tourneys again

Scotso
04-24-2005, 07:56 PM
Rafa :worship:

JC :sad:

any pics of the two together? ;)

JCF
04-24-2005, 08:11 PM
Ferrero is still making his way back....sure his level now is pretty good, but its only 3/4 of his level of 2003. He is still making too many unforced errors for him, although less recently, and his forehand is not quite as deadly as it can be.

I know he will be peaking for RG though :)

Congrats to Rafa, amazing already :worship:

lalaland
04-24-2005, 08:14 PM
I know he will be peaking for RG though :)



If he is not dead tired by then. Is he getting WC from Rome yet?

liS@
04-24-2005, 08:17 PM
Check out the trophy ceremony: :angel:

Use your muscles Nadals! ;)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050424/capt.xba80304241728.spain_tennis_xba803.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050424/i/r304251734.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050424/capt.xba80404241737.spain_tennis_xba804.jpg

Ah Nadal, what a cheeky boy. :D

rue
04-24-2005, 08:24 PM
Check out the trophy ceremony: :angel:

Use your muscles Nadals! ;)

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050424/capt.xba80304241728.spain_tennis_xba803.jpg

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050424/i/r304251734.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050424/capt.xba80404241737.spain_tennis_xba804.jpg




Ah Nadal, what a cheeky boy. :D




What funny pictures especially the first one. Well done to Rafael Nadal. I don't know if there is any other teenager who has had as great a start to the year as he has. As of right now, he is the man to beat. Lets hope the momentum carries on to the French Open.

Geniey2g
04-24-2005, 08:31 PM
http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050424/i/r304251734.jpg
Ah Nadal, what a cheeky boy. :DWhat was JC doing in this pic? Helping Rafa to put a sticker on the trophy??

tangerine_dream
04-24-2005, 10:38 PM
wow, that trophy is hee-yuge! Congrats to Rafa on boring us to death with his clay domination. ;) :p :bigclap:

Congrats to Juanqui too, for making the final. It's nice to have him back. :yeah:

bad gambler
04-24-2005, 10:44 PM
congrats to nadal, another super show this week on the dirt

star
04-24-2005, 10:46 PM
Those are the funniest trophy presentation pictures EVER! :lol: :lol:

Juan Carlos is so patiently helping out the new guy and trying hard not to laugh.

Federerhingis
04-24-2005, 10:50 PM
Well good run for both players, Nadal is still running on his fabulous form. Ferrero seems to be finding his, at least he wasnt sent packing in less than an hour like their previous mismatch encounter. Seems like good signs for the mosquito, hopefully he can continue developing his confidence and allow himself to have better results at the upcoming clay masters and Rolland Garros. He should at least be a very serious dark horse for french if he keeps this decent form.

Lastly Congrats to Nadal! :worship:

Skyward
04-24-2005, 11:13 PM
Those are the funniest trophy presentation pictures EVER! :lol: :lol:



No,the funniest pictures are Marat's with the trophy which broke into pieces.

Chloe le Bopper
04-24-2005, 11:50 PM
No,the funniest pictures are Marat's with the trophy which broke into pieces.
JCF was there for that too :lol:

Horatio Caine
04-25-2005, 12:28 AM
:haha: Nice of JC to help Rafa hoist the trophy...boy it must be heavy!!

_pyromatic
04-25-2005, 01:29 AM
No,the funniest pictures are Marat's with the trophy which broke into pieces.


:haha: That one can't ever be beaten! It was the same tournament, right?

RogiFan88
04-25-2005, 02:59 AM
:worship: Congrats to Rafa on his first Spanish title!! Another first for El Nino! ;) I don't think anyone could have beaten him this week. :cool: And congrats for breaking into the top 10 with a bullet. #7!! :eek:

Congrats to Juanqui for making his first final of 2005! He had a great week and beating Gaudio shows he's truly on his way back. :yeah:

Btw, all those who questioned why Rafa is playing Valencia and Barcelona, I think he just wants to win all the Spanish tournaments like Juanqui. ;)

More photos (he can beat anyone on clay but he doesn't have enough muscle to lift the trophy :p ;) )

http://gblx.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundodeporte/tenis/2005/albumgodo/godo2-ap.jpg

http://gblx.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundodeporte/tenis/2005/albumgodo/nadal5-efe.jpg

http://gblx.cache.el-mundo.net/elmundodeporte/tenis/2005/albumgodo/godo3-reuters.jpg

Question: When was the last time someone won both Monte Carlo and Barcelona in the same year?

Puschkin
04-25-2005, 06:33 AM
Question: When was the last time someone won both Monte Carlo and Barcelona in the same year?

I don't know if somebody did it since then, but Thomas Muster did it back in 1995.

NATAS81
04-25-2005, 06:34 AM
Nadal is the franchise.

Just another chapter to add to his MC schooling of JCF.

JCF will never beat Nadal.

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 06:46 AM
I wonder where are now those who criticized Arrese bc his decision in Seville....

Federerhingis
04-25-2005, 07:02 AM
Nadal is the franchise.

Just another chapter to add to his MC schooling of JCF.

JCF will never beat Nadal.


Hmmm, I wouldnt say never, theres a saying "never say never", cause you may never know what can happen in the future. I certainly understand your point and theres no denying of Nadals abilities on clay or his abilities as a Tennis player in general, but the never is just not a safe bet.

Ferrero Forever
04-25-2005, 07:03 AM
still here-and i stand by disagreeing with his decision and i let him know what i thought of his decision too. Lets not go there though, it's the past and we've moved on. I'm not upset that he lost at all-he's back and thats all that matters-I seem to think that Ferrero would beat Nadal on hard or grass though.

Federerhingis
04-25-2005, 07:07 AM
Nadal is the franchise.

Just another chapter to add to his MC schooling of JCF.

JCF will never beat Nadal.

By the way I wouldnt call the above scoreline a Schooling, I would think of it being more so if it were along the lines of 6-2,6-2, 6-2.

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 07:13 AM
still here-and i stand by disagreeing with his decision and i let him know what i thought of his decision too. Lets not go there though, it's the past and we've moved on. I'm not upset that he lost at all-he's back and thats all that matters-I seem to think that Ferrero would beat Nadal on hard or grass though.

Time has proved Arrese right, nothing much to discuss here I think.

NATAS81
04-25-2005, 07:15 AM
He beat one of the most successful clay courters of all-time in straight sets.

Face it, the kid is the 2nd coming.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:21 AM
Time has proved Arrese right, nothing much to discuss here I think.
;)

Ferrero Forever
04-25-2005, 07:22 AM
Time has proved Arrese right, nothing much to discuss here I think.
i didn't want to bring this up again but it was more than a team affair here, it was also a matter of them lying to JC and Tommy and making them think they were gonna play and they didn't when they were in a slump. There were two sides to that story and the G3 treated JC and Tommy like shit. JC and Tommy could have done the job against Roddick and Mardy, but they were more interested in favouring Moya and Rafa. As i said it's history now, Spain won-thats fantastic, now can we drop it please.

WyveN
04-25-2005, 07:24 AM
He beat one of the most successful clay courters of all-time in straight sets.


So did Ancic a week ago.

Nadal has done some impressive things this season but beating Ferrero is not at the top of the list.

NATAS81
04-25-2005, 07:26 AM
I like Ancic to emerge as a top 10 player within a couple years as well.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:27 AM
i didn't want to bring this up again but it was more than a team affair here, it was also a matter of them lying to JC and Tommy and making them think they were gonna play and they didn't when they were in a slump. There were two sides to that story and the G3 treated JC and Tommy like shit. JC and Tommy could have done the job against Roddick and Mardy, but they were more interested in favouring Moya and Rafa. As i said it's history now, Spain won-thats fantastic, now can we drop it please.
We can drop it, but you're being unreasonable ;)

The point is to win. You send out your best bets to win. Moya and Rafa were the best bets.

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 07:28 AM
i didn't want to bring this up again but it was more than a team affair here, it was also a matter of them lying to JC and Tommy and making them think they were gonna play and they didn't when they were in a slump. There were two sides to that story and the G3 treated JC and Tommy like shit. JC and Tommy could have done the job against Roddick and Mardy, but they were more interested in favouring Moya and Rafa. As i said it's history now, Spain won-thats fantastic, now can we drop it please.

DC captains have to deal with players´ egos and find the best solutions for their team to win. Nadal was the better player in that moment and Arrese knew that, so he made the right decision. I know it´s a battle lost cause you´re a JCF fan but if you think he was not well treated, just try to figure what we (Spanish fans) could think about him when his face looked like an USA Team member after Spain won the Cup.

Kat!
04-25-2005, 07:28 AM
Time has proved Arrese right, nothing much to discuss here I think.


*scratches head* so.... would you pick Moya to play DC now..? (if he was available) I'm confused :confused: is that using current form to justify a previous decision?

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:30 AM
*scratches head* so.... would you pick Moya to play DC now..? (if he was available) I'm confused :confused: is that using current form to justify a previous decision?
He doesn't even need to use current form to justify the decision... even though that is what it appears he did. The final scores are more than enough ;)

Frankly, Ferrero over Corretja in 2000 was somewhat "controversial" (though not quite the same situation). It's more than just a littie bit hilarious that people whined about him being on the other end of it.

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 07:30 AM
*scratches head* so.... would you pick Moya to play DC now..? (if he was available) I'm confused :confused: is that using current form to justify a previous decision?

I think post above can answer your question. If not, let me know, I will gladly explain a bit more my point of view.

Ferrero Forever
04-25-2005, 07:31 AM
well all we have to worry about now is Spain not getting kicked out of the World Group-and if spain stays in their current form (which probably won't happen) and Ferrero doesn't get picked-then i'm gonna be REALLY pissed off.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:31 AM
DC captains have to deal with players´ egos and find the best solutions for their team to win. Nadal was the better player in that moment and Arrese knew that, so he made the right decision. I know it´s a battle lost cause you´re a JCF fan but if you think he was not well treated, just try to figure what we (Spanish fans) could think about him when his face looked like an USA Team member after Spain won the Cup.
He was sulking? :confused:

JCF had his DC moment in 2000 ;) It wasn't like he was in Moya's position.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:33 AM
well all we have to worry about now is Spain not getting kicked out of the World Group-and if spain stays in their current form (which probably won't happen) and Ferrero doesn't get picked-then i'm gonna be REALLY pissed off.
Ferrero didn't get picked because he was in crap form and not putting matches together. Unless he's doing that towards the end of Sept. I don't see why you need to be concerned.

NATAS81
04-25-2005, 07:34 AM
And as for Ancic over JCF, a scoreline would be proficient.

JCF was coming off injuries before that too.

Now he's gone deep against some quality competition in his past couple tournies, so I think this win in such a dominating fashion has Nadal looking pretty solidified as the currect King of Clay.

Whenever you win a final in straight sets, I don't care who you beat, you've made your case for dominator.

NATAS81
04-25-2005, 07:35 AM
We haven't seen the last of Ferrero, though.

I think R16 @ RG for him is in order.

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 07:36 AM
He was sulking? :confused:

JCF had his DC moment in 2000 ;) It wasn't like he was in Moya's position.

He looked like his gf had left him, his career had come to an end and he was in bankrupt. You know, it´s all about egos...

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:37 AM
As long as he doesn't meet one of his nemisis, JCF could go further than the R16. It depends on if he gets his seeded, what he is seeded, which high seed he draws and which round he has to play them :p.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:38 AM
He looked like his gf had left him, his career had come to an end and he was in bankrupt. You know, it´s all about egos...
Well, Ferrero does have a big ego. That's okay :D

I imagine that Robredo took it a little bit better ;)

NATAS81
04-25-2005, 07:38 AM
Yeah, I think JCF can hold his own against Coria, Ancic, or any other top 20 clay courters besides Nadal.

Mimi
04-25-2005, 07:40 AM
nadal is the new king :woohoo: :bowdown: :bigclap: :yippee:

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:40 AM
I think JCF will lose to Coria if they play at Rg ;)

Kat!
04-25-2005, 07:44 AM
He doesn't even need to use current form to justify the decision... even though that is what it appears he did. The final scores are more than enough ;)

hey, although I was disappointed that he didn't play the final - I thought that it was logical, considering he had no form at all at the time.

But that being said, I thought it was somewhat irrelevant (?) to go "nah nah nah nah nah - told you so" now that Rafa is 2-0 in head to head over JC. You and I both know that the tennis world can change very quickly, one minute you're invincible and then you injure yourself and might not play the same way again.

So IF JC wins against Moya sometime during the clay season, should we go.... "Time has proved Arrese wrong, because JCF has now beaten Moya on clay" ???????

Kat!
04-25-2005, 07:45 AM
I imagine that Robredo took it a little bit better ;)

Tommy is used to it I think... lol, despite his higher ranking he normally doesn't get picked often in DC.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:49 AM
hey, although I was disappointed that he didn't play the final - I thought that it was logical, considering he had no form at all at the time.

But that being said, I thought it was somewhat irrelevant (?) to go "nah nah nah nah nah - told you so" now that Rafa is 2-0 in head to head over JC. You and I both know that the tennis world can change very quickly, one minute you're invincible and then you injure yourself and might not play the same way again.

So IF JC wins against Moya sometime during the clay season, should we go.... "Time has proved Arrese wrong, because JCF has now beaten Moya on clay" ???????

Okay, I follow your point. I don't think that what is going on right now is all that relevant, since Moya is slumping into a pretty big hole and was apparently fantastic. So I guess I'm agreeing ;)

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 07:50 AM
So IF JC wins against Moya sometime during the clay season, should we go.... "Time has proved Arrese wrong, because JCF has now beaten Moya on clay" ???????

Moyá and Nadal were the best options in that moment. They were playing the best tennis in that moment, therefore they were the right choices. Maybe then most of people thought Nadal was an overrated kid and Arrese was crazy for giving him the chance of playing instead JCF, a winner in París. They both gave us Spanish fans the title so I highly doubt there´s people left thinking Arrese was not right, honestly.


PD: I still think Arrese was also right when picking Verdasco in Slovakia despite Spain lot. You have to select your players in a determined conditions, considering current forms and also some untangible factors, but you can´t win always.

Clara Bow
04-25-2005, 07:53 AM
Well, Ferrero does have a big ego. That's okay

Is Ferrero known for his ego? (I'm not implying that's a bad thing at all). I am asking because during TTC broadcast of the Barcelona Final, the commentators referenced a press conference at Monte Carlo where JC got a little snarky when folks asked him about Nadal.

I imagine that it must be tough for Ferrero coming out of an awful year and all of a sudden there is all of this attention focused on the younger Spaniard when just a couple of years ago JC was the it guy in Spanish tennis. But I think this year will be a really exciting time to watch JC because I the fact that he wants to show that he can once again be as good as he once was will add a lot of fire to his belly.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 07:59 AM
I like Ferrero, but I think that if you skim his interviews over time... yes, he does have a pretty healthy ego. ;) I don't have specific examples off the top of my head, it's just a general impression. I don't think this aspect is unique to Ferrero. Lots of former and current top players have healthy egos ;)

Ferrero probably isnt' the only one tired of talking about nadal. Right Marat? :devil:

Action Jackson
04-25-2005, 07:59 AM
Good to see Ferrero getting back to some of his form and he is on his way to getting his confidence back, which should be his first priority.

I agreed with the decisions that Arrese made in Seville as I said at the time( couldn't be bothered finding the posts, but they are here) to all the doubters that Nadal should be playing, why pick someone if they are not in the best form and pander to their ego to the detriment of the team, yes that does refer to Ferrero.

What happens now is a different story, at the time Arrese was proven right.

Congratulations to Rafa for a second title, but there are more important things to come.

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 08:06 AM
Is Ferrero known for his ego?

When he came to TMS Madrid in 2003 it looked like Bjorn Borg has arrived in town. Fortunately, nº1 spot didn´t last him too much....

Action Jackson
04-25-2005, 08:10 AM
I don't know if somebody did it since then, but Thomas Muster did it back in 1995.

Muster did it twice in a row actually in 96 as well.

Armada~121
04-25-2005, 08:12 AM
I think that at that moment, Arrese probably used the psychological reason to justify his decision. JC fell into a slump after a bad season and did not have much confidence. Also, JC must be aware of the pressure putting onto him despite his not-so-impressive form at that time. For any mortal with normal size of head, this is sure to create such subconscious concerns that might hinder him to play his best tennis.

On the other hand, Rafa seemed ripe for the moment. Also, out of all other Spanish players who were ranked above him, he is tailor-made for big matches and he plays like he has nothing to lose, even tho he had not yet to show his best form at that moment. Calculating the (then) current odds, Arrese must see that Rafa was a more promising option. I personally think that it was that particular match that boost up Rafa's career and result in his apparent impact on tour at this very moment.

However, things that offended me at that time was, even tho Rafa was a wiser option and the result proved that Arrese's choice was right, the captains should have had decency and guts to tell JC the truth prior to the final that they would choose Rafa due to the better form. Not letting him believe that he was going to play the final and got dumped shortly before the match (I remember thatt no one knew that Rafa was going to play instead of JC before the press conference, not even JC himself, no?) This has nothing to do with Rafa. But everything with the captains. They failed to show JC some respect in my opinion.

Action Jackson
04-25-2005, 08:13 AM
When he came to TMS Madrid in 2003 it looked like Bjorn Borg has arrived in town. Fortunately, nº1 spot didn´t last him too much....

Interesting.

Action Jackson
04-25-2005, 08:18 AM
I think that at that moment, Arrese probably used the psychological reason to justify his decision. JC fell into a slump after a bad season and did not have much confidence. Also, JC must be aware of the pressure putting onto him despite his not-so-impressive form at that time. For any mortal with normal size of head, this is sure to create such subconscious concerns that might hinder him to play his best tennis.

So you think it's alright to pander to Ferrero's ego ok you have it done it for us once before in 2000, you'll play in the final again in 2004 even when form doesn't warrant your selection?

I personally think that it was that particular match that boost up Rafa's career and result in his apparent impact on tour at this very moment.

I wouldn't know qualifying as a 16 yr old and beating the RG champion on his surface in straight sets and then taking out Moya when he was in good form as well as a 16 yr old is enough to make people notice. Even then he showed he could play against big players, this might have accelerated it.

Arrese doesn't have to announce to the world before the deadline which singles players are going to be used and most cases they wouldn't know for sure.

Armada~121
04-25-2005, 08:25 AM
So you think it's alright to pander to Ferrero's ego ok you have it done it for us once before in 2000, you'll play in the final again in 2004 even when form doesn't warrant your selection?

Nah, I wasn't saying that it's all right at all. I was saying that Arrese must see that JC was not the best option in the aspects of BOTH form and mentality at that moment. Even IF Rafa might not be playing any better than JC did then, Rafa would still have been a better choice considering his more healthy mentality at the time.

Action Jackson
04-25-2005, 08:28 AM
Nah, I wasn't saying that it's all right at all. I was saying that Arrese must see that JC was not the best option in the aspects of BOTH form and mentality at that moment. Even IF Rafa might not be playing any better than JC did then, Rafa would still have been a better choice considering his more healthy mentality at the time.

The right guy was chosen and if Ferrero couldn't hide his disappointment that is his problem. They all contributed during the year and it's not just about final glory for the individual.

Geniey2g
04-25-2005, 09:57 AM
I like Ancic to emerge as a top 10 player within a couple years as well.
Years???! The time is now!

Ferrero Forever
04-25-2005, 10:09 AM
However, things that offended me at that time was, even tho Rafa was a wiser option and the result proved that Arrese's choice was right, the captains should have had decency and guts to tell JC the truth prior to the final that they would choose Rafa due to the better form. Not letting him believe that he was going to play the final and got dumped shortly before the match (I remember thatt no one knew that Rafa was going to play instead of JC before the press conference, not even JC himself, no?) This has nothing to do with Rafa. But everything with the captains. They failed to show JC some respect in my opinion.
My point exactly. I love the spaniards-but i care for how JC is treated more than any match. Mabye it's just me being a fan-but since not playing affected him, I'm against arresse's decision.

Mimi
04-25-2005, 10:31 AM
oh rather kind of Juan to help rafa to lift up the trophy :wavey:
What funny pictures especially the first one. Well done to Rafael Nadal. I don't know if there is any other teenager who has had as great a start to the year as he has. As of right now, he is the man to beat. Lets hope the momentum carries on to the French Open.

tennischick
04-25-2005, 05:11 PM
I agreed with the decisions that Arrese made in Seville as I said at the time (couldn't be bothered finding the posts, but they are here) to all the doubters that Nadal should be playing, why pick someone if they are not in the best form and pander to their ego to the detriment of the team, yes that does refer to Ferrero.

What happens now is a different story, at the time Arrese was proven right.
i don't even see why this is up for debate. of course the right decision was made. Rafa was healthy and playing good tennis; Ferrero was questionable. a good captain has the guts to make the right decision, even if it bruises a player's ego.

Billy Moonshine
04-25-2005, 06:36 PM
I was there and it was fab. First set, Nadal too consistent, Ferrero made errors going for his shots. 2nd set, very competive, great rallies and JC playing great tennis, but Rafa more consistent and dominating the tiebreak. 3rd set all Rafa, a mini fightback by JC but Rafa just held firm and closed it out with confidence and after three hours jumped and screamed and the crowd went mad annointing their new king.
Great to see JCF play so well and congrats Rafa, after seeing you play I´m a fan!!:)

***Daniela86***
04-25-2005, 07:07 PM
Rafa :worship: :worship: :worship: :clap2: congrats :aparty: He proved that he really deserve a place in top 10 and that he will be one of the favourite to win RG.
Ferrero :) :hug: it's good to see him back, i 'm sure he will win a title soon :) :D !
Vamos, keep on playing like that guys!! :worship: I love you both! :kiss:

nermo
04-25-2005, 07:26 PM
Congratulations NADAL. :bigclap: :bigclap: ...well that guy is really getting high as fast as the rocket...

know what amazes me the most...his words after winning...

``I was a bit tired, I have to recognize it, but I'm delighted,'' Nadal said. ``You want to know my secret? Work with humility and never make do with what you've got. Always want more.''

a wonderful philosophy...dont think so??? :angel: :angel:

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 10:47 PM
JCF is at his 70% I´d say. His fh is still far away from being that killer weapon it once was. And his serve is back to old times in which it sucked. A pity bc he really had improved it...

Just read some Ferrero´s words from yesterday, he says he´s sth around 85% his best.

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 10:56 PM
85%? You were WAY off! ;)

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 11:00 PM
85%? You were WAY off! ;)

Yes I think it´s a bit exageratted, but it´s good to be optimistic I guess :shrug:

Chloe le Bopper
04-25-2005, 11:01 PM
You were just trying to explain how Nadal could possibly have won a match. Understandable :D

Deivid23
04-25-2005, 11:03 PM
You were just trying to explain how Nadal could possibly have won a match. Understandable :D

Yes, Nadal´s luck never comes to an end. I think he was even lucky when that big trophy (which he probably didn´t deserve) didn´t fall onto his feet.

Chloe le Bopper
04-26-2005, 01:24 AM
He's lucky that JCF was not only nice enough to throw the match, but was nice enough to help him lift the undeserved trophy :)

Kat!
04-26-2005, 08:43 AM
Just read some Ferrero´s words from yesterday, he says he´s sth around 85% his best.

I hate to say... if he meant 85% from when he was top 5... that doesn't translate to the same results now.. he might need to play at 150% of what he was, to beat Nadal/Coria/Hewitt/Federer etc etc etc of 2005.

but if people want to think he was just making excuses... then I guess they can continue to think so.... everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Action Jackson
04-26-2005, 08:45 AM
Just read some Ferrero´s words from yesterday, he says he´s sth around 85% his best.

Good to show some confidence and optomism.

Daniel
04-27-2005, 12:14 AM
Felicidades Rafael :bigclap: