if all the top players play their best... [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

if all the top players play their best...

federer express
04-17-2005, 08:18 PM
can coria win the french?

in my opinion he is the favourite for RG but if federer, safin, nadal, gaudio and others are all on top form does coria have the game to win it this year? i ask because most top players will dictate the points against him. he is after all primarily a counter-hitter.
now at monte carlo ferrero got on top in many of the points but was too inconsistent to keep it going and finish them off...he usually made an error. and nadal really bossed two-thirds of today's match and was clearly superior. (yes i accept coria was not at his best). but for me he still thinks better than anyone else on the clay.

soooo....coria at his best against safin, nadal, or federer or even ferrero at their bests. would he triumph? :scratch:

personally my views are this:
(i) coria will win the french this year AND....
(ii) coria winning the french would be a good thing

TennisLurker
04-17-2005, 08:24 PM
I find Nadal to be a very defensive or even a more defensive player than Coria, It was Coria who would get tired, exasperated during the rallies, and try to finish the point, and making unforced errors most of the time, netting or hitting forehands long, Coria today had more than 70 unforced erros, this is the first time I see him do that.

To me it looks like Nadal can play Coriaīs defensive game even better than Coria, with more Spin and Power.

federer express
04-17-2005, 08:27 PM
I find Nadal to be a very defensive or even a more defensive player than Coria, It was Coria who would get tired, exasperated during the rallies, and try to finish the point, and making unforced errors most of the time, netting or hitting forehands long, Coria today had more than 70 unforced erros, this is the first time I see him do that.

To me it looks like Nadal can play Coriaīs defensive game even better than Coria, with more Spin and Power.

i dont think coria was rash when taking shots on. i just thought his execution was poor today. nadal does have more spin and more power, which is why he bossed the match in general.
dont get me wrong though...i dont think nadal is always the most attacking player around. but he is definitely becoming more aggressive and less happy to just hit short forehands with huge topspin all day.

TennisLurker
04-17-2005, 08:27 PM
This match up reminds me of Chang vs Muster, Coria being Chang and rafa being Muster, they both played retrieving defensive styles, but Muster hit the ball harder and with more spin, and he dominated Chang usually.

Obviously Coria has more flair, better hands and touch than Chang, or Muster, and Rafa, so, he may find a way to beat the Rafa in the future.

superpinkone37
04-17-2005, 08:29 PM
I think it is possible for Rafa, because of his inexperience, to lose to someone unexpectedly, but I still think he is the favorite, or at least one of the top favorite. I really do believe that he can win it. I havent really been keeping up will Guille enough to make a good enough prediction about him, but I think what happened today revealed something.

federer express
04-17-2005, 08:31 PM
This match up reminds me of Chang vs Muster, Coria being Chang and rafa being Muster, they both played retrieving defensive styles, but Muster hit the ball harder and with more spin, and he dominated Chang usually.

Obviously Coria has more flair, better hands and touch than Chang, or Muster, and Rafa, so, he may find a way to beat the Rafa in the future.

good points.

i think coria needs to attack the nadal backhand more next time if he can. although rafa has improved that shot significantly already, he doesn't yet have a good down the line shot with it in my opinion. so he can be exposed there.

TennisLurker
04-17-2005, 08:32 PM
I think this is funny because Nadalīs game looks so outdated to me, it is like going back to the 80īs early 90īs, Rafa even hits the moonball to the middle of the court and high to the corners, it is very retro.

Not an agressive clay courter like Guga or Carlos, and most clau courters nowadays like Zab, Gonzo, Calleri.

DanEd
04-17-2005, 08:36 PM
I find Nadal to be a very defensive or even a more defensive player than Coria, It was Coria who would get tired, exasperated during the rallies, and try to finish the point, and making unforced errors most of the time, netting or hitting forehands long, Coria today had more than 70 unforced erros, this is the first time I see him do that.

To me it looks like Nadal can play Coriaīs defensive game even better than Coria, with more Spin and Power.

Coria is changing his game trying to be more agressive. he is not accustomed to that new style therefore he makes many unforced errors.

but the old Coria is far a more defensive player.

federer express
04-17-2005, 08:36 PM
I think this is funny because Nadalīs game looks so outdated to me, it is like going back to the 80īs early 90īs, Rafa even hits the moonball to the middle of the court and high to the corners, it is very retro.

Not an agressive clay courter like Guga or Carlos, and most clau courters nowadays like Zab, Gonzo, Calleri.

mmmm i think he is becoming much more attacking though. there is a big improvement even from last year. i saw him a few times then when almost half his shots were landing around the service line, but still kicking up and making it hard for his opponents cuz of the immense spin. but now he definitely uses his serve better, is more attacking with the forehand and the backhand has improved.

in my opinion, nadal has almost everything. even his volleys are pretty good. he will be a threat at every slam from now on! that doesn't mean i think he will win any other than the french just yet, but maybe next year he will be a major force in all the others.

DanEd
04-17-2005, 08:37 PM
good points.

i think coria needs to attack the nadal backhand more next time if he can. although rafa has improved that shot significantly already, he doesn't yet have a good down the line shot with it in my opinion. so he can be exposed there.

Nadalīs backhand is underrated. it is pretty good.

federer express
04-17-2005, 08:39 PM
Nadalīs backhand is underrated. it is pretty good.

i know its good. was just saying he almost always goes crosscourt with it though at the moment.

DanEd
04-17-2005, 08:43 PM
i know its good. was just saying he almost always goes crosscourt with it though at the moment.+

yes you are right it is a weakness. his dtl is not so good.

but overrall is a good backhand.

federer express
04-17-2005, 08:45 PM
+

yes you are right it is a weakness. his dtl is not so good.

but overrall is a good backhand.

he is just improving now at an incredible rate. i guess that'll happen when you have talent and desire in abundance!

DanEd
04-17-2005, 08:46 PM
I think this is funny because Nadalīs game looks so outdated to me, it is like going back to the 80īs early 90īs, Rafa even hits the moonball to the middle of the court and high to the corners, it is very retro.

Not an agressive clay courter like Guga or Carlos, and most clau courters nowadays like Zab, Gonzo, Calleri.

it s for that his game is so complicated. most players are no used to

Deivid23
04-17-2005, 08:50 PM
Kid is improving in all aspects, as expected. His serve, his backhand, even his forehand are better this year. Still a lot of margin to improve but, hey, heīs 18 after all....

In_Disguise
04-17-2005, 09:07 PM
I think this is funny because Nadalīs game looks so outdated to me, it is like going back to the 80īs early 90īs, Rafa even hits the moonball to the middle of the court and high to the corners, it is very retro.

Not an agressive clay courter like Guga or Carlos, and most clau courters nowadays like Zab, Gonzo, Calleri.

Does this style remind you of another spaniard, who was the king of clay 10 years ago, aka Brugera. Both of them use an extreme amount of top spin, can run all day, and is a master of the moonball (which becoming almost an extinct shot these days)

Neumann
04-17-2005, 09:16 PM
I think Coria is the favourite to win Roland Garros, even with the rest of the players playing their best. Anyways that case is a really tough call, cause I think the best of Coria is better than the best of Gaudio or Moya and, maybe, Ferrero, but Federer, as he plays so diferent from him, and Nadal could be better than him (or not).

Taking away the hipothesis of "playing their best" I think Coria is the main favourite (after saying this Gasquet will win the FO, but I mean theoretically). I am almost sure Nadal CAN'T win the FO this year, because of his fitness. He even said today that "he is not made for five sets on clay" and that he was "too tired for a fifth set". After playing Barcelona, Rome and Hamburg (I don't know if he'll make them all though) he definitely won't be able to handle five setters through the final (unless a great streak of easy three setters), although I'd prefer to be wrong in this. And I think Coria will deal with Federer favourably as well.

And I would be happy for him because he plays a very good claycourt game, and he is even more aggressive now, although I don't like his whiny character.

World Beater
04-18-2005, 05:15 AM
Coria dealing with federer? Thats tough. I havent seen coria play well against federer. But to me federer seems to like playing against a style like coria's

Chloe le Bopper
04-18-2005, 05:21 AM
I think Coria will win RG this year. I don't think he'll kick as much ass beforehand, though. He'll probably make another final or two, but I think he'll look shakey for a while yet.

Even if all the top players play their best, it's not like he'll have to knock all of them out. If he can get himself into the top 8 for RG... which is possible, seeing as he has nothing to defend at Rome or Barca (although Barca will replace MC 2004, which is not off yet)... then he'll probably only have to beat two of them.

I agree with WB that Federer is probably a bad player for him... but Federer at the French is a topic for another thread, so I won't get into the likelihood of them playing each other :p

I think that at this point he's still better than Nadal. Nadal was better in MC and I was happy about that, but if Coria (IF IF!) can get back where he was... Nadal isn't quite there yet, IMO.

World Beater
04-18-2005, 05:24 AM
Coria is five-set tough. It would be interesting to see how nadal handles the long matches on clay

Dirk
04-18-2005, 05:29 AM
I think the wet conditions really helped Nadal today. He was able to turn it into a might match and Coria couldn't do anything against him.

Chloe le Bopper
04-18-2005, 05:30 AM
Coria is five-set tough. It would be interesting to see how nadal handles the long matches on clay
That's part of why I give Coria the edge. That, and he has RG experience, which Rafa doesn't.

Of course, as I said, this is ignoring the possibility of him playing Fed ;)

Action Jackson
04-18-2005, 05:35 AM
Coria has never won a 5 setter from being 2 sets down, he is a frontrunner.

Nadal has been improving a lot and will continue to do so and if he has a career as successful as Muster's then he can be proud.

Chloe le Bopper
04-18-2005, 05:36 AM
Coria has never won a 5 setter from being 2 sets down, he is a frontrunner.

Nadal has been improving a lot and will continue to do so and if he has a career as successful as Muster's then he can be proud.
Lucky for Coria, he doesn't usually fall two sets to love down on clay :p

Action Jackson
04-18-2005, 05:38 AM
Lucky for Coria, he doesn't usually fall two sets to love down on clay :p

That maybe the case, but that was one reason I didn't think Nadal would lose that match yesterday even in the 4th set when he was getting nervous.

Chloe le Bopper
04-18-2005, 05:40 AM
That maybe the case, but that was one reason I didn't think Nadal would lose that match yesterday even in the 4th set when he was getting nervous.
Me thinks he probably won't get so nervous next time. Well, unless it's in the advanced stages of a slam. That is somewhat bigger than a MS final. Still, I'm glad he has started to shake this off early ;)

World Beater
04-18-2005, 05:40 AM
i think its time for coria to avenge his loss to roddick on clay. LOL. That will never happen, though.

Hehe

Action Jackson
04-18-2005, 05:47 AM
Me thinks he probably won't get so nervous next time. Well, unless it's in the advanced stages of a slam. That is somewhat bigger than a MS final. Still, I'm glad he has started to shake this off early ;)

Well as I have said before, he is a very quick learner and has shown that already, then again he had some experience of that this year in Melbourne, but I can just see the Nadal hype taking in so many people.

Chloe le Bopper
04-18-2005, 05:52 AM
i think its time for coria to avenge his loss to roddick on clay. LOL. That will never happen, though.

Hehe
Not unless Coria plans on playing Houston again. :p

I'd like to hear him say in interview that their head to head is very misleading :angel: He wouldn't do that though :p He leaves his evil on the court :devil:

Chloe le Bopper
04-18-2005, 05:53 AM
Well as I have said before, he is a very quick learner and has shown that already, then again he had some experience of that this year in Melbourne, but I can just see the Nadal hype taking in so many people.
Well, check out the RG poll for that ;)

Action Jackson
04-18-2005, 05:58 AM
Well, check out the RG poll for that ;)

I still haven't checked the poll yet or voted on it, but it wouldn't surprise me. I am doing quite well in the bandwagon building business.

Deivid23
04-18-2005, 06:32 AM
After having watched again the match Iīve taken good conclusions for the future matches between both. Meanwhile Nadal was fresh (first two sets mainly) and could hit deep and heavy strokes (especially forehands) he simply had too much for Coria. Rafa was as solid as him from baseline, but he had too much firepower for Guillermo and his serve was also more effective. Coria grinds his opponent out with his quickness and smartness but with Nadal this doesnīt work as well as against the others, here he has some kind of an alter-ego but with some weapons he lacks of, in my humble opinion.

Becarina
04-18-2005, 06:36 AM
they are not?

jacobhiggins
04-18-2005, 06:37 AM
I think Nadal is going to become more powerful and Coria is just not going to have the definsive abilities to keep him off, however, I think Nadal being so new and so fresh has thrown some of the old pros off. They could figure out his game, he does have a lot variety though! I think Federer, Safin, and Guga and heck maybe even Nadal could win it. I think at there very very best Federer would beat them, but has he ever played his best on clay? I don't think he has. Which means he's not the best on clay until he does it!

Action Jackson
04-18-2005, 06:38 AM
There are some similarities between Muster and Rafa, though Rafa isn't anywhere near as fit or as relentless and at 18 he shouldn't be. One thing Nadal did was vary the pace of shot and Coria was making the errors.

Rafa will improve his backhand and his volleys need more work, but he has the right attitude in this regard. Coria was bemused as he was made to go for the winners and his dropshotitis was funny. I know he likes using them, but even by weasel standards he used a lot of them.

Deivid23
04-18-2005, 06:50 AM
One thing Nadal did was vary the pace of shot and Coria was making the errors.


Solid, quick and smart, normally is Coria who prevails in all that concerns, but yesterday he wasnīt fairly superior in any of those. Add this that Nadal has a couple of weapons he lacks of and there you have the winner.

Action Jackson
04-18-2005, 06:59 AM
Solid, quick and smart, normally is Coria who prevails in all that concerns, but yesterday he wasnīt fairly superior in any of those. Add this that Nadal has a couple of weapons he lacks of and there you have the winner.

Well Nadal has that forehand weapon and was prepared to hang there as long as it takes and he wasn't just belting the ball for the sake of it. I have to say I liked the serve/volley change up from Rafa.

The right guy won and that's all that counts.

Becarina
04-18-2005, 07:02 AM
The right guy won and that's all that counts.


nicely put :) If you work for it, it will come ;)

Deivid23
04-18-2005, 07:23 AM
I have to say I liked the serve/volley change up from Rafa.

I thought about that and itīs a thing Iīve always liked from a baseliner to do ocasionally. Iīve had a lot of fun watching Albert Costa doing it many times on some key points (set points or so), I donīt think it has to do with same "surprise tactic" like Costa and more with possible tireness though

Action Jackson
04-18-2005, 07:25 AM
I thought about that and itīs a thing Iīve always liked from a baseliner to do ocasionally. Iīve had a lot of fun watching Albert Costa doing it many times on some key points (set points or so), I donīt think it has to do with same "surprise tactic" like Costa and more with possible tireness though

Wilander was the master of that tactic and he won most of the points and was hardly ever from tiredness. If they are not expecting it, then it's the right time to do it, though when Mantilla does it I am worried.