Required qualities to make RG-Wimby double... Who's got them ? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Required qualities to make RG-Wimby double... Who's got them ?

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 02:32 PM
Who's the successor of Borg ?
One of the most difficult tasks in tennis is to win the clay and grass slams back to back: the qualities required to be good on both surfaces are almost antagonists.
What is the profile of this player ?
I think about speed, supreme fitness, mental of steel, return AND serve, volley skills, footwork.
Technically Federer could do it but in terms of fitness it's gruelling. For me Nadal has the potential as well...

syd
04-06-2005, 02:34 PM
i don't see anynoe for the moment be able to do it, may be Roger but not sure
We’ll see in few months

makro120
04-06-2005, 04:17 PM
Federer has the fitness to do it. He doesn't even need to be on top fitness to win wimbledon, no one can beat him on grass.

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 04:23 PM
Federer has the fitness to do it. He doesn't even need to be on top fitness to win wimbledon, no one can beat him on grass.
to do both, you have to be in top-top form, smoking Marat or Grosjean or icecream/pizza addict Dent would have trouble making it... :cool:

Dirk
04-06-2005, 04:24 PM
Nadal doesn't have serve nor return to do it. Staying far back won't help him even if the grass courts are slower than they used to be.

David Kenzie
04-06-2005, 04:26 PM
Federer definately but also Hewitt and maybe Nalbandian have good records at both events

makro120
04-06-2005, 04:26 PM
Federer can win wimbledon on his sleep, I will be surprised if anyone even can take a set from him in wimbledon this year.

Rogiman
04-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Federer can win wimbledon on his sleep, I will be surprised if anyone even can take a set from him in wimbledon this year.

It's time you stopped talking like a complete idiot.

makro120
04-06-2005, 04:38 PM
It's time you stopped talking like a complete idiot.

Cmon, the only one I can see take a set from him is Ljubcic. Roddick is worse than last year, Hewit no problem in the final, Safin out in the 1st round, what else do we have?

Rogiman
04-06-2005, 04:40 PM
Cmon, the only one I can see take a set from him is Ljubcic. Roddick is worse than last year, Hewit no problem in the final, Safin out in the 1st round, what else do we have?

I'm pretty positive you've already been told that, but I'll tell you once again just to make sure:

It's posters like you that make Federer's fans look like a bunch of arrogant assholes.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 04:41 PM
It's time you stopped talking like a complete idiot.

You are kidding, you can't take a guy seriously when they say Federer will win 20 Slams, win the Grand Slam at least twice, go through a season unbeaten and not claim Björn Borg is the greatest everon clay.

Blaze
04-06-2005, 04:42 PM
Cmon, the only one I can see take a set from him is Ljubcic. Roddick is worse than last year, Hewit no problem in the final, Safin out in the 1st round, what else do we have?


Ancic? karlovic? Popp?

Rogiman
04-06-2005, 04:43 PM
You are kidding, you can't take a guy seriously when they say Federer will win 20 Slams, win the Grand Slam at least twice, go through a season unbeaten and not claim Björn Borg is the greatest everon clay.

Most of the time I would just ignore, but sometimes it's just too much....

Auscon
04-06-2005, 04:46 PM
all they need is a little energon, and alot of luck

Auscon
04-06-2005, 04:48 PM
I'm pretty positive you've already been told that, but I'll tell you once again just to make sure:

It's posters like you that make Federer's fans look like a bunch of arrogant assholes.

dont worry, I dont think it has an effect on others views of the general population of Federer fans

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 05:02 PM
dont worry, I dont think it has an effect on others views of the general population of Federer fans

The problem there are others as well who are helping Rogiman's theory.

makro120
04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
I'm pretty positive you've already been told that, but I'll tell you once again just to make sure:

It's posters like you that make Federer's fans look like a bunch of arrogant assholes.

So, how would it sound if everyone just where as humble as mr humble himself, Federer?

I would sometimes want to see some more positive energy and optimism from Federer fans instead of all talk about a real grand slam beeing impossible in modern tennis and that he will win RG one day when he gets a lucky draw like Agassi. Federer is with all right humble against his opponents, but I am sure his wet tennis dreams aims higher than his talking. I know what federer can do with his talent and I think he will do it, I am not afraid of beeing wrong, but I feel I have to be honest with what I belive Federer can do. I don't see any reason to be afraid Federer wins less than you expect and therefor expect as little as possible from him.

Like "If he wins wimbledon and stays nr1 in the world it is good enought for me", hell no! Federer should do much more and I think he knows it. He doesn't even need to beat last year, but proof something to the world. Like if he wins RG and Wimbledon I will be happy enought, if he doesn't show something new and simply as last year flops in RG and wins Wimbledon and US open I will be very disappointed. I think my biggest fear is that Federer really is a new Sampras like the pessimists are saying and doesn't show the world something they haven't seen before. I see Federer as the complete tennis player, the kind of player which only appears once in a century and does what everyone thinks is impossible.

I think he will win a real grand slam twice (calendar or noncalendar), I think he will win RG 2-3 times, I think he will win +20 grand slams, I think he will break Borg's record of 5 straight wimbledons, I think he will break Sampras record of 6 straight years as nr1 and I think he will destroy the never ending talking about who is the best tennis player of all time. Why shouldn't I?

makro120
04-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Also I don't think I ever said Borg was not the greatest clay player of all time, I just don't think it is as obvious as some are saying. Borg and Guga are 2 players living in different eras impossible to compare with each other. No one will ever know who really is the greatest clay player of all time, no player would win RGs as easy as Borg did at his time, not even Björn Borg himself if he lived today. Watch all 5 setters Guga had to play to win all his RGs, all the pain and mental strength it required from him from 1st round to final. Björn Borg could play the 1st 3-4 rounds like if he was training and even tehreafter the opposition wasn't close to today. I can't tell you who is the greatest clay player of all time, but if you want to say Borg obviously is do it, I would atleast like to hear more than "he won RG 6 times so he obviously is the best ever"!

WyveN
04-06-2005, 05:15 PM
I think he will win a real grand slam twice (calendar or noncalendar), I think he will win RG 2-3 times, I think he will win +20 grand slams, I think he will break Borg's record of 5 straight wimbledons, I think he will break Sampras record of 6 straight years as nr1 and I think he will destroy the never ending talking about who is the best tennis player of all time. Why shouldn't I?

If you really believe is and are not just trying to bait people by trolling then at least you have the guts to post some "crazy" predictions. Personally I think your overrating Federers skills and are setting yourself up for disapointment even if he has a excellent career but whatever works for you.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 05:19 PM
makro, you are the first to make excuses when Federer loses as well, so that's another thing.

The Borg thing well I explained why your theory was flawed in that and took into account all the conditions and your claims about Federer are seriously over the top and actually as much as I like Federer, it will be hard not to laugh when you justify his losses with poor excuses.

Jim Jones
04-06-2005, 05:23 PM
why is Popp always injured. Probably he will start his comeback in Wimbledon where he will again make it to the 2nd week before once again fading away.

Purple Rainbow
04-06-2005, 05:33 PM
If you really believe is and are not just trying to bait people by trolling then at least you have the guts to post some "crazy" predictions. Personally I think your overrating Federers skills and are setting yourself up for disapointment even if he has a excellent career but whatever works for you.

Actually, I think he is underrating the skills of Federers opponents!
Federer lifted the game to another level, but there will be players who will catch up with him, so his current dominance won't last for another 2 or 3 seasons, methinks.

oz_boz
04-06-2005, 05:38 PM
Hmm. Tough one. How about

Federer
Safin
Ljubicic
Hewitt
Nalbandian

?

makro120
04-06-2005, 06:02 PM
makro, you are the first to make excuses when Federer loses as well, so that's another thing.

The Borg thing well I explained why your theory was flawed in that and took into account all the conditions and your claims about Federer are seriously over the top and actually as much as I like Federer, it will be hard not to laugh when you justify his losses with poor excuses.

I never made excuses when Federer lost. Like I think unlike other some Federer fans thqt both Safin and Federer played almost their best and I dn't think you can say Federer played much below his best level. Also you neevr explained anything about Borg, just made it clear we have 2 different opinions.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:07 PM
I never made excuses when Federer lost. Like I think unlike other some Federer fans thqt both Safin and Federer played almost their best and I dn't think you can say Federer played much below his best level. Also you neevr explained anything about Borg, just made it clear we have 2 different opinions.

It's ok I know you are not being serious and there were plenty of excuses flying about because Federer lost and both of them were not at their best in this match, the better player won on the day. You'll have them ready if he doesn't win RG and to justify the next time he loses.

You are a loud winner and when he loses to someone you don't deem as worthy then you'll have excuses ready.

Considering I took everything into consideration about the different eras and respective depths and you did say Guga was better than Borg, don't try and get out of it.

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 06:10 PM
I think he will win a real grand slam twice (calendar or noncalendar), I think he will win RG 2-3 times, I think he will win +20 grand slams, I think he will break Borg's record of 5 straight wimbledons, I think he will break Sampras record of 6 straight years as nr1 and I think he will destroy the never ending talking about who is the best tennis player of all time. Why shouldn't I?
That's funny makro, look at what I wrote a few months ago on future Fed's achievements:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=29932&page=4&pp=15
;)

Federerhingis
04-06-2005, 06:11 PM
Yeah I am a firm believer and consider my self a very loyal fan of Federer and am quite optimistic about his career and results but I wouldnt be so optimistic, one afterall has got to be realistic. As some pointed out the competition from now on will only get stronger, nobody wants to be thrashed by Federer no matter how good a player he is. I sure hope he can win wimby this year and perhaps one of the other two slams but, I wouldnt be so sure of him breaking The Borg 5 consecutive wimby record, not even Mr.Sampras aka mr Wimbledon was able to do it; and he was the clear favorite everytime he stepped on those lawns from the time he won his first wimby in 93.

Krajicek of course was a great player and especially good on grass and indoors, because of his awesome serve and solid volleys. However Sampras was still favored in that match discounting the fact that he had a not so favorable head to head versus the Dutch man, my point is, guys like Roddick and even Ancic to a certain extent can challenge Federer on grass, so its no gurantee he will be winning wimby, unless his volleys become even better than what they already are. For now I would only say that Federer given good health and good form should at least tie Agassi in the # of grand slams count by the end of his career.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:11 PM
That's funny makro, look at what I wrote a few months ago on future Fed's achievements:
http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=29932&page=4&pp=15
;)

You two should get married.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:20 PM
I think he will win a real grand slam twice (calendar or noncalendar), I think he will win RG 2-3 times, I think he will win +20 grand slams, I think he will break Borg's record of 5 straight wimbledons, I think he will break Sampras record of 6 straight years as nr1 and I think he will destroy the never ending talking about who is the best tennis player of all time. Why shouldn't I?

Because it's bloody stupid! It's as simple as that. I can't wait to see Federer try to win the Grand Slam four years in a row, as he would have to do in order to live up to your expectations.

And more to the point, it is never a good idea to presume that your favourite player is going to do anything when circumstances can change quickly. This sort of dominance isn't going to last forever, that's why we as fans have to enjoy it while it lasts - Federer will lose a final somewhere, he will lose a significant GS match (heck, it's already happened this year), and suddenly he will be a little more fallible than he has been up till now. You were the genius who predicted that Safin would lose the AO match in straight sets because of his mental weakness, now I have a horrible feeling you're going to turn up before a big Federer match at RG or Wimbledon to jinx him once again.

We should ALL follow Federer's example and show some humility about his achievements and other players. He didn't win 18 consecutive finals by taking any one of his opponents in those finals lightly, and we shouldn't either. Yes, even Hewitt.

Dirk
04-06-2005, 06:20 PM
Federerhingis did the rest of the tour catch up to Pete? Did they catch up to Borg except Mac? Federer has a very special talent which he is making the most of and it is not replaceable. If special talent was then we wouldn't be talking about Rios, Natasse, Agassi, Sampras, Borg, Mac and other special gifted players who might not all have been great champions but had great talent and unique games.

shaoyu
04-06-2005, 06:25 PM
Come on guys I don't think makro is arrogant, he is just maybe a little optimistic and over-demanding of Roger. I don't see too much ground for attacking him based on his bold predictions. As I once said, if one of his 'crazy' predictions turned out to be true, you guys should line up and pay homage to him.

Dirk
04-06-2005, 06:27 PM
God forbid if Roger wins Carlo and Marko turns out to be right about that. :rolls: I like you Marko. You are the Federer MTF poster verison of ComeonAussie. A rabid overreaching Hewitt fan.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:28 PM
Fans like makro deserve to be laughed at when he makes these predictions and actually believes them and when they fail take the consequences.

makro, time to change that signature Federer won't win the Slam this year.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:28 PM
God forbid if Roger wins Carlo and Marko turns out to be right about that. :rolls: I like you Marko. You are the Federer MTF poster verison of ComeonAussie. A rabid overreaching Hewitt fan.

CmonAussie was more humorous.

Julio1974
04-06-2005, 06:29 PM
Obviously Federer. Less obvious, Nalbandian (he reached the final in Wimbledom and SF in RG)

Dirk
04-06-2005, 06:29 PM
Yeah he was. I loved his stereotypical Aussie talk. God he was great. :)

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:30 PM
Yeah he was. I loved his stereotypical Aussie talk. God he was great. :)

I wish the Hewitt fans would tell me his whereabouts. He was great and actually quite insightful at times, got to love him when he believed Hewitt could win RG.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:31 PM
Come on guys I don't think makro is arrogant, he is just maybe a little optimistic and over-demanding of Roger. I don't see too much ground for attacking him based on his bold predictions. As I once said, if one of his 'crazy' predictions turned out to be true, you guys should line up and pay homage to him.

I do see grounds for attacking him based on his claim that Federer can win Wimbledon in his sleep and that no other player can even take a set from him. That's insulting to the rest of the tour, it assumes that Federer's level will never drop in a big match, and it will probably be proved wrong.

If one of the predictions makro made in that last paragraph turns out to be true, I will be trying to get the swine at the nearest farmhouse to me airborne before I pay homage to him.

Peoples
04-06-2005, 06:32 PM
You need to be an all-court player. Like Federer, Nalbandian, Safin, Agassi (if we don't count age as a "quality").

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:33 PM
I wish the Hewitt fans would tell me his whereabouts. He was great and actually quite insightful at times, got to love him when he believed Hewitt could win RG.

The best part was being assured by him that "Rocky Llegs basically has the same game as grinders like Chang and Coria, so why can't he do just as well on the red stuff?" I was having a good laugh at that during the Gaudio QF last year.

Neely
04-06-2005, 06:34 PM
concerning Hewitt... the guy has played a more than respectable claycourt season last year and overall in his career... has beaten Gaudio and another time a third set tiebreaker loss to him on clay and has made the QF (until losing to the eventual champ quite clearly) of the French Open and a few good clay TMS results... props to Lleyton for his play on clay! :worship:


no one can beat him on grass.
:devil: just wait until Kiefer has him again in Halle ;) :angel: :smoke:

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:34 PM
The best part was being assured by him that "Rocky Llegs basically has the same game as grinders like Chang and Coria, so why can't he do just as well on the red stuff?" I was having a good laugh at that during the Gaudio QF last year.

True, but to be fair to the guy, he took defeat fairly well and was usually good in this regard, unlike the boorish makro.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:37 PM
Yes, he said he was disappointed but hats off to Gaudio. Mind you, the Hewitt fans by and large are a reasonable bunch, except when they slip into cliches about Hewitt's never-say-die fighting spirit. I would have hoped that the Safin defeat would have made makro revise his assessment of Federer's Slam tally, but evidently not.

Federerhingis
04-06-2005, 06:37 PM
Dirk, to answer your question let me see where can I start from, hmmmm...

Well yes it was obvious that by the end of 2000 the tour had caught up to Sampras, or maybe his game was just fading a bit, he was still unbeatable right up to the masters of 99 where he lost to Guga in the Finals or semis? However my point is that Sampras was an even greater favorite at Wimby and yet he wasnt able to duplicate Borgs results on the fast lawns of Great Britain, Federer has yet to establish himself as an absolute clear favorite on the lawns, guys like Roddick, Ancic and even Joachim will be able to challenge Fed with their huge serves and big forehands if they can find good rhythm, sort of like Ivanicevic(sorry if I'm mispelling it) and Krajicek(oh God I cant spell these guys names anymore) for Sampras, however both the aforementioned has good volleys, of Feds potential challengers on wimby only Ancic seems to have decent volleys, actually quite good. So if Fed indeed wins wimby convincingly this upcoming summer then he will be the undisputed favorite like both Sampras and Borg were in their respective eras. I really do hope and believe Federer will win wimby this year, I just dont think he could replicate Borgs or beat his mark just yet, thats all.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:39 PM
Yes, he said he was disappointed but hats off to Gaudio. Mind you, the Hewitt fans by and large are a reasonable bunch, except when they slip into cliches about Hewitt's never-say-die fighting spirit. I would have hoped that the Safin defeat would have made makro revise his assessment of Federer's Slam tally, but evidently not.

He'll still be making excuses for the defeat.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:40 PM
concerning Hewitt... the guy has played a more than respectable claycourt season last year and overall in his career... has beaten Gaudio and another time a third set tiebreaker loss to him on clay and has made the QF (until losing to the eventual champ quite clearly) of the French Open and a few good clay TMS results... props to Lleyton for his play on clay! :worship:



:devil: just wait until Kiefer has him again in Halle ;) :angel: :smoke:

Indeed, and he has never lost to mugs at RG looking at the quality that has beaten him there over the years (three future champions, for a start), but he does not have a Chang/Coria-like game on clay. And neither of those clay matches with Gaudio last year before RG should have even been close, but that's Gaudio for you.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:41 PM
Federerhingis, you make some good points and they will catch up to Federer unless Roger retires by next year. It happens most of the time in pro sports and that's why it's important to enjoy the ride that Federer is on at the moment.

He needs to take RG seriously before he can face Oscar Hernandez in the Wimbledon final.

Whistleway
04-06-2005, 06:42 PM
GHW, you sir, are so judgemental. So my turn,

If I have one penny for every wise logical and complete utterance of GHW, I would still be counting zero. hehe,..

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:42 PM
Indeed, and he has never lost to mugs at RG looking at the quality that has beaten him there over the years (three future champions, for a start), but he does not have a Chang/Coria-like game on clay. And neither of those clay matches with Gaudio last year before RG should have even been close, but that's Gaudio for you.

Smashed him in the one that counted, the Gaudio disease existed in Monte Carlo and almost got him again in Dusseldorf. He did lose to Robredo.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:43 PM
Hernandez will likely be Federer's toughest grass-court assignment to date.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:44 PM
GHW, you sir, are so judgemental. So my turn,

If I have one penny for every wise logical and complete utterance of GHW, I would still be counting zero. hehe,..

That was almost intelligent coming from yourself, your best ever post and I will keep that for future reference.

One thing makro has in his favour, he is prepared to come out and say it and that's good.

Still waiting for an average contribution from you to a tennis thread, when you have done that, then progress will have been made.

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 06:45 PM
It's fun to see how even so-called non Federer fans discussions end up talking about him exclusively... the thread is on the qualities to have or to develop to win both tournies in a row, what are your thoughts ?

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:46 PM
Smashed him in the one that counted, the Gaudio disease existed in Monte Carlo and almost got him again in Dusseldorf. He did lose to Robredo.

Well, that was the tournament where Robredo beat the world no. 1 and then almost beat the last two RG champions back-to-back... thank goodness Costa turned it around. Virtually everyone on here was rooting against him following what they saw as rather brattish complaining to the umpire about Lapentti in the final set of their match, and boy were they gloating when Roboro took a two-set lead. Costa's roar at the end as he slotted that volley away and collapsed to the ground is still my favourite ever reaction to a match win.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:46 PM
It's fun to see how even so-called non Federer fans discussions end up talking about him exclusively... the thread is on the qualities to have or to develop to win both tournies in a row, what are your thoughts ?

Rogiman, Sjengster and myself are Federer fans and not Federer fawners there is a difference. :)

Whistleway
04-06-2005, 06:47 PM
GWH, you can kiss my a$$ for all ya worth.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:48 PM
GWH, you can kiss my a$$ for all ya worth.

You mean half of nothing?

Whistleway
04-06-2005, 06:49 PM
How many times i told ya not to wipe ya glasses with your undies.. duh !!

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:50 PM
How many times i told ya not to wipe ya glasses with your undies.. duh !!

You must stop coming and going from my mothers bedroom it keeps me awake.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 06:52 PM
It's fun to see how even so-called non Federer fans discussions end up talking about him exclusively... the thread is on the qualities to have or to develop to win both tournies in a row, what are your thoughts ?

Well, it was inevitable that Federer would be discussed here given he is on the shortlist of players who have the qualities to succeed at both events. I can't think of many others: Nalbandian obviously has the ground game and returning skill to do well at RG and Wimbledon, but as ever with Nalbandian, it's a case of consistency without trophies unless he overcomes his block in finals.

It seems to me that anyone who did win both Slams would probably do it by playing a claycourt style at Wimbledon, just like Borg did, rather than playing a grass-court style at RG; Federer errs toward the latter style, since he does rely on his serve a lot even though he doesn't volley behind it as much as past Wimbledon champions did. A lot of attacking players have come very close in Paris (McEnroe and Edberg being just one set away from the title in 84 and 89), but only Noah has actually managed it.

Whistleway
04-06-2005, 06:53 PM
Well. what can i say, she needs me since you cannot satisfy her, GWH.... hehe ;)

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:55 PM
Well. what can i say, she needs me since you cannot satisfy her, GWH.... hehe ;)

Congratulations Immaculate Misconception.

I have had fun and are you prepared to debate tennis in here with different people or what? If not go back to my mother and considering she is dead, you are a necro.

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 06:57 PM
Well, it was inevitable that Federer would be discussed here given he is on the shortlist of players who have the qualities to succeed at both events. I can't think of many others: Nalbandian obviously has the ground game and returning skill to do well at RG and Wimbledon, but as ever with Nalbandian, it's a case of consistency without trophies unless he overcomes his block in finals.

It seems to me that anyone who did win both Slams would probably do it by playing a claycourt style at Wimbledon, just like Borg did, rather than playing a grass-court style at RG; Federer errs toward the latter style, since he does rely on his serve a lot even though he doesn't volley behind it as much as past Wimbledon champions did. A lot of attacking players have come very close in Paris (McEnroe and Edberg being just one set away from the title in 84 and 89), but only Noah has actually managed it.
mentally and physically, it's a hell of a job. Agassi was the closest to doing it in 99 but a certain Sampras prevented him to do it, but what a run ! Fitness is key, great groundstokes and strong mental... quite rare these days in one player, at the same moment...

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 06:57 PM
It seems to me that anyone who did win both Slams would probably do it by playing a claycourt style at Wimbledon, just like Borg did, rather than playing a grass-court style at RG; Federer errs toward the latter style, since he does rely on his serve a lot even though he doesn't volley behind it as much as past Wimbledon champions did. A lot of attacking players have come very close in Paris (McEnroe and Edberg being just one set away from the title in 84 and 89), but only Noah has actually managed it.

The thing Borg did have in his advantage was the lack of overall depth in his playing day. I mean he could get away with it at Wimbledon and his serve was hugely underrated.

I think Federer can win RG, but if he does I don't think he can win Wimbledon in the same year. If he does it, it'll be great and he's worthy of this achievement.

Whistleway
04-06-2005, 06:59 PM
>>If not go back to my mother and considering she is dead, you are a necro.

ahh,, i thought it was ur mom.. oh no.. she's ur wife eh.. all the well.. ;).. hehe

[well, there are several posts of yours that i like. but, if you gonna keep rubbing on other folks with your judgements, everyone else can do too., u know. besides, i have heard better comebacks from 10yr olds.. duh !!]

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 07:00 PM
>>If not go back to my mother and considering she is dead, you are a necro.

ahh,, i thought it was ur mom.. oh no.. she's ur wife eh.. all the well.. ;).. hehe

[well, there are several posts of yours that i like. but, if you gonna keep rubbing on other folks with your judgements, everyone else can do too., u know. besides, i have heard better comebacks from 10yr olds.. duh !!]
OK guys give us a break for a while on this...

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 07:04 PM
I'm trying to talk about Feds game in relation to the question asked.

You know where to find me whistle and how about talking tennis in this thread instead of trying to be funny, it's not that hard.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 07:05 PM
The thing Borg did have in his advantage was the lack of overall depth in his playing day. I mean he could get away with it at Wimbledon and his serve was hugely underrated.

I think Federer can win RG, but if he does I don't think he can win Wimbledon in the same year. If he does it, it'll be great and he's worthy of this achievement.

Yes, I've read many times about the poor volleys that were made much better on grass by the bad bounces in the first week. Mind you, looking at his matches there he seemed to have a few close scrapes in the first couple of rounds when the grass was playing quicker and he was more vulnerable to being served off the court.

No, I don't think so either - Halle would be out of the question if he won at RG, and without a warm-up event I doubt he could triumph at Wimbledon again. I know which one I'd like him to prioritise this year, unfortunately he doesn't agree with me.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 07:08 PM
Yes, I've read many times about the poor volleys that were made much better on grass by the bad bounces in the first week. Mind you, looking at his matches there he seemed to have a few close scrapes in the first couple of rounds when the grass was playing quicker and he was more vulnerable to being served off the court.

His volleys weren't that bad per se, but he had other strengths, those passing shots and the nerve. It takes time to adjust and I don't think Borg played many warm up events, he practiced the week before I think Wimbledon.

No, I don't think so either - Halle would be out of the question if he won at RG, and without a warm-up event I doubt he could triumph at Wimbledon again. I know which one I'd like him to prioritise this year, unfortunately he doesn't agree with me.

He could always play the Stoke Park exhibition beforehand if he managed to win RG, but if that choice comes it'll be interesting to see what he chooses to do.

Whistleway
04-06-2005, 07:11 PM
Well, let me talk about Federer.

I think Federer has a chance to do it. He won last year Wimby and next week Gstaad, though the field is not quite the same as RG. A lot of it would depend on his attitude and he hates drop-shots. He has said that he wanted RG to give him a chance to practice on center court before the tournament starts. That shows how much serious he is about RG.

But, it is easier said that done. no injuries for two months, willingness to go long matches, ability to talk french ;)

skillwise federer can do it, but, it would require bucket-loads of luck and good attitude. And Rafa is steaming hot this year.. whoa !

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 07:15 PM
If it's a policy that RG don't let players practice on centre court before the event, then they shouldn't break it for Federer, if it's not policy, then it's a good idea.

Gstaad is nothing like RG, the conditions aren't even close, there is an altitude factor not associated with Paris.

If he is serious about winning RG he'd play 3 TMS events and Barcelona if he loses early in Monte Carlo, but he won't do that.

Angle Queen
04-06-2005, 07:15 PM
At the risk of getting in over my head with two of the boards heavy hitters ;)...here goes anyway...

I believe Wimbledon champs are of the ‘I can out hit you’ mentality whereas RG winners are ‘I can outlast you.’ Net rushers are hailed in London, punished in Paris. For a player to be successful at both...they’re gonna have to have it in the brain category as well...to make those kind of strategical changes. In addition, I think to win at both, a player’s got to have an unusual combination of talents:

A money serve...and the patience of Job.

Trouble with most “big” servers...is that they come to rely on it...and don’t (think they) need the latter. Notice I said “money”...not “big” serve. Grass rewards both power...and placement in the service box. Johnny Mac did real well...with his lefty serve out wide...on the money (ad) side. And the Fed...seems to be able to come up with a crucial, paint the lines serve when needed as well.

Clay, on the other hand, rewards placement...and endurance. The points are longer with fewer “winner” opportunities, be they from the baseline or at the net. And what by all rights should be a winner...will invariably come back...to make the opponent hit just one more shot. I’d be curious to see an in-depth analysis of the number of points won as winners v. UEs in the two events. If I had to guess, the ratios would be, for the most part, reversed. A guy who “goes for it” vs. a guy who “makes few(er) mistakes.” Not the same guy, not the same player...and that’s why...for one to win both, back-to-back, will be a rarity. Makes me appreciate Mr Borg...even more.

As for who on the current tour has those qualities...there's one obvious choice and I'll add Hewitt as my darkhorse possibility, especially if he can ramp up that serve. Safin can't keep it together for two big tourneys in a row (at least not now), Rafa...maybe...but it's hard to think he'll really challenge on grass (hardcourt, maybe...but not grass). Nalbandian...had his one shot at Wimbledon. Doubt, doubt he'll see the finals again. The others...not even close IMO. And it's just that...an opinion. Would gladly eat my words...to see it done again.

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 07:17 PM
Hewitt will never win RG. I can say that now and if he does then I'll gladly pick up some humble pie from the bakery.

Sjengster
04-06-2005, 07:17 PM
I always thought Wimbledon was the only Slam that didn't let players practice on the centre court... that's certainly been no impediment for Federer in the last couple of years, although they did let Roddick practice there before the final since he'd only played his first round match there during the tournament.

Angle Queen
04-06-2005, 07:19 PM
Hewitt will never win RG. I can say that now and if he does then I'll gladly pick up some humble pie from the bakery.Sadly, you're probably right...mainly because there are too many other top players for whom that surface...is gold.

But just in case, what's your favorite kind of pie? I'm a good baker ;)

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 07:21 PM
Sadly, you're probably right...mainly because there are too many other top players for whom that surface...is gold.

But just in case, what's your favorite kind of pie? I'm a good baker ;)

It won't happen.

Hewitt can't move on the surface and has problems with the ball over his shoulder. Gaudio schooled him at RG and Federer showed him up in Hamburg.

Angle Queen
04-06-2005, 07:23 PM
No mas, GWH...about Hewitt. I believe you. I really do. :)

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 07:24 PM
At the risk of getting in over my head with two of the boards heavy hitters ;)...here goes anyway...

I believe Wimbledon champs are of the ‘I can out hit you’ mentality whereas RG winners are ‘I can outlast you.’ Net rushers are hailed in London, punished in Paris. For a player to be successful at both...they’re gonna have to have it in the brain category as well...to make those kind of strategical changes. In addition, I think to win at both, a player’s got to have an unusual combination of talents:

A money serve...and the patience of Job.

Trouble with most “big” servers...is that they come to rely on it...and don’t (think they) need the latter. Notice I said “money”...not “big” serve. Grass rewards both power...and placement in the service box. Johnny Mac did real well...with his lefty serve out wide...on the money (ad) side. And the Fed...seems to be able to come up with a crucial, paint the lines serve when needed as well.

Clay, on the other hand, rewards placement...and endurance. The points are longer with fewer “winner” opportunities, be they from the baseline or at the net. And what by all rights should be a winner...will invariably come back...to make the opponent hit just one more shot. I’d be curious to see an in-depth analysis of the number of points won as winners v. UEs in the two events. If I had to guess, the ratios would be, for the most part, reversed. A guy who “goes for it” vs. a guy who “makes few(er) mistakes.” Not the same guy, not the same player...and that’s why...for one to win both, back-to-back, will be a rarity. Makes me appreciate Mr Borg...even more.

As for who on the current tour has those qualities...there's one obvious choice and I'll add Hewitt as my darkhorse possibility, especially if he can ramp up that serve. Safin can't keep it together for two big tourneys in a row (at least not now), Rafa...maybe...but it's hard to think he'll really challenge on grass (hardcourt, maybe...but not grass). Nalbandian...had his one shot at Wimbledon. Doubt, doubt he'll see the finals again. The others...not even close IMO. And it's just that...an opinion. Would gladly eat my words...to see it done again.
Good post AQ !! :wavey:

RogiFan88
04-06-2005, 07:31 PM
Come on guys I don't think makro is arrogant, he is just maybe a little optimistic and over-demanding of Roger. I don't see too much ground for attacking him based on his bold predictions. As I once said, if one of his 'crazy' predictions turned out to be true, you guys should line up and pay homage to him.

Makro [and note, not Federer] is suffering fr delusions of grandeur and being completely unrealistic...

It's not just "required qualities" needed to win RG-Wimby double anyway. ;)

makro120
04-06-2005, 07:37 PM
It's ok I know you are not being serious and there were plenty of excuses flying about because Federer lost and both of them were not at their best in this match, the better player won on the day. You'll have them ready if he doesn't win RG and to justify the next time he loses.

You are a loud winner and when he loses to someone you don't deem as worthy then you'll have excuses ready.

Considering I took everything into consideration about the different eras and respective depths and you did say Guga was better than Borg, don't try and get out of it.

I never made those excuses, both were playing very close to their best, were did you get these stuff? I never wrote any excuses when Federer lost any match in my life, even if I should sometimes (like when he lost in the olympics). The same when he lost against Costa and Guga last year, I just said he lost against good clay players, former RG champions and that there is no shame in loosing such matches. You are just full of bullsh*t, I wasn't even here when Federer lost to Safin, I was too depressed and took a 2 month long break from tennis.

Maybe I said Guga was better than Borg but some hours later I changed my mind and came to the conclussion that there was no way comparing them with each other. But ofcourse you are too proud to ever change your mind about anything and you don't think people can change their mind hearing what other people have to say. I am not that stubborn and some people made some good points, I hope that arguing in the internet is not like arguing with a wall like some say, when I read someone with a different opinion than me the 1st thing which comes in my mind is not the best way to give an argument back. Sometimes an argument back isn't needed as the person really makes a point, I hope someday people like you will learn this.

makro120
04-06-2005, 07:41 PM
Fans like makro deserve to be laughed at when he makes these predictions and actually believes them and when they fail take the consequences.

makro, time to change that signature Federer won't win the Slam this year.

That is stupid, I have that signature as it was some months ago because I take the consequences of my predictions. I will have it as it is for the rest of the year!

TheMightyFed
04-06-2005, 07:43 PM
That is stupid, I have that signature as it was some months ago because I take the consequences of my predictions. I will have it as it is for the rest of the year!
On this one I don't get you makro, you'll lose some credibility keeping it... predictions weaker than facts, and it looks like you don't accept the only loss of Fed so far... :rolleyes:

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 07:44 PM
I never made those excuses, both were playing very close to their best, were did you get these stuff? I never wrote any excuses when Federer lost any match in my life, even if I should sometimes (like when he lost in the olympics). The same when he lost against Costa and Guga last year, I just said he lost against good clay players, former RG champions and that there is no shame in loosing such matches. You are just full of bullsh*t, I wasn't even here when Federer lost to Safin, I was too depressed and took a 2 month long break from tennis.

Well when you say Federer will dismiss Safin in straight sets beforehand without giving it a thought that Marat could win the match, then you have to deal with it.

Where was I? I was at the match live actually and very enjoyable as well. You didn't make excuses because Guga is one of your favourite players, but if it was Coria I doubt whether you'd sing the same tune. If the time comes and you don't make excuses, then all apologies.

Maybe I said Guga was better than Borg but some hours later I changed my mind and came to the conclussion that there was no way comparing them with each other. But ofcourse you are too proud to ever change your mind about anything and you don't think people can change their mind hearing what other people have to say. I am not that stubborn and some people made some good points, I hope that arguing in the internet is not like arguing with a wall like some say, when I read someone with a different opinion than me the 1st thing which comes in my mind is not the best way to give an argument back. Sometimes an argument back isn't needed as the person really makes a point, I hope someday people like you will learn this.

Plenty of people here make good points about a lot of subjects from different perspectives, that is obvious. I'm sorry when you go on with 20 Grand Slams for Federer and Roger doesn't have those expectations then stuff like that is going to come back at you.

rocketrajic
04-06-2005, 07:48 PM
Roger Federer is the only one that has a good chance to win both GS.

Lleyton Hewitt, Marat Safin, David Nalbandian and Ivan Ljubicic have small chances to do it if they are really hot.

makro120
04-06-2005, 07:51 PM
Well when you say Federer will dismiss Safin in straight sets beforehand without giving it a thought that Marat could win the match, then you have to deal with it.

Where was I? I was at the match live actually and very enjoyable as well. You didn't make excuses because Guga is one of your favourite players, but if it was Coria I doubt whether you'd sing the same tune. If the time comes and you don't make excuses, then all apologies.


Yes, I said that and I have told I am sorry I was arrogant against Safin, I really underestimated how well he could mantain a high level for an entire match. But I never made any excuses after the match and I never have!

Action Jackson
04-06-2005, 07:53 PM
Yes, I said that and I have told I am sorry I was arrogant against Safin, I really underestimated how well he could mantain a high level for an entire match. But I never made any excuses after the match and I never have!

I am still waiting for the clay season and if you don't make excuses for the defeats, then that's a bonus.

makro120
04-06-2005, 10:02 PM
I never make excuses and I hate to hear people make excuses for any player. For example I don't think Nadal won 2 sets from Federer because Federer was playing bad, but I think Federer might have won the next 3 sets because he learned how to play against Nadal, together with the fact that Nadal was loosing energy.

I am a bad looser, but the kind of looser who simply take things to serious and go into a short depression because my favorite player/team lost an important match. I am not the kind of looser who just tries to come up with the best excuse after a loss, belive me on this point!

robinhood
04-06-2005, 10:50 PM
To answer the question of this thread,
I think currently only Federer fits the bill.
Maybe also Nalbandian who's done well at both events, but he chokes too much.

jole
04-06-2005, 11:46 PM
I never make excuses and I hate to hear people make excuses for any player. For example I don't think Nadal won 2 sets from Federer because Federer was playing bad, but I think Federer might have won the next 3 sets because he learned how to play against Nadal, together with the fact that Nadal was loosing energy.

I am a bad looser, but the kind of looser who simply take things to serious and go into a short depression because my favorite player/team lost an important match. I am not the kind of looser who just tries to come up with the best excuse after a loss, belive me on this point!

You go into depression when Federer loses? Man, I'd be in some deep shit if I couldn't keep it together when Dominik lost.

makro120
04-06-2005, 11:50 PM
You go into depression when Federer loses? Man, I'd be in some deep shit if I couldn't keep it together when Dominik lost.

Not only federer, but also when my favorite football (Barcelona, MIlan) and hockey teams (Modo) looses, so I am in constant depression...

jole
04-06-2005, 11:52 PM
Not only federer, but also when my favorite football (Barcelona, MIlan) and hockey teams (Modo) looses, so I am in constant depression...

I wish you luck.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-06-2005, 11:57 PM
Andre Agassi almost did it in 1999.

oz_boz
04-07-2005, 12:45 PM
Sjengster said above that it's more likely that omebody wins Wimbledon with a clay-court game than RG with an attacking ditto.

Noah was the latest attacker to win RG in 1983, but who was the latest clayourter to win Wimbledon? Yup: Borg in 1980. And more attackers have reached RG F since then (Edberg, Verkerk, Stich) than clayourters have done at W (Lendl, not even a pure dirtballer).

I don't count Agassi here, I would call him a hard-courter.

uNIVERSE mAN
04-07-2005, 01:55 PM
Lendl's just as good a hard-courter as Agassi, maybe better. 8 straight USO F remember.

Sjengster
04-07-2005, 03:03 PM
Sjengster said above that it's more likely that omebody wins Wimbledon with a clay-court game than RG with an attacking ditto.

Noah was the latest attacker to win RG in 1983, but who was the latest clayourter to win Wimbledon? Yup: Borg in 1980. And more attackers have reached RG F since then (Edberg, Verkerk, Stich) than clayourters have done at W (Lendl, not even a pure dirtballer).

I don't count Agassi here, I would call him a hard-courter.

OK, perhaps I should have said groundstroker rather than claycourt game - not that everyone who plays from the baseline plays a claycourt style, but to distinguish it from the grass-court style, which is dependent upon the serve and short points after it. I wouldn't call Verkerk an attacking player in the grass style, he bombs serves in and hits big groundstrokes and doesn't mind playing longer rallies. He grew up on clay and hates grass.

I just think that with the way the grass is being slowed down at Wimbledon, the chances of more Hewitt-Nalbandian type finals in the future are high; heck, last year Federer stayed back the vast majority of the time in matches instead of serve-volleying. He's trying to incorporate more net play into his game this year, though, so we'll see.

jtipson
04-07-2005, 04:41 PM
Andre Agassi almost did it in 1999.

McEnroe was only 2 games away from doing it.

erik-the-red
04-07-2005, 07:58 PM
The reason why Borg could do this three years in a row for a total of six Roland Garros and five Wimbledon titles is because:

a. On Grass, he served and volleyed very well
b. On Clay, he ground you down to NOTHING

I say Rogi has the variety.

David Kenzie
04-07-2005, 08:09 PM
McEnroe was only 2 games away from doing it.

Not really, he was 2 games away form winning RG. Had he won he may not have won Wimby.

Chloe le Bopper
04-07-2005, 08:27 PM
I'm pretty positive you've already been told that, but I'll tell you once again just to make sure:

It's posters like you that make Federer's fans look like a bunch of arrogant assholes.

;)

Chloe le Bopper
04-07-2005, 08:28 PM
Nadal doesn't have serve nor return to do it. Staying far back won't help him even if the grass courts are slower than they used to be.

Agreed. Nadal is absolutely never going to get any better than he is now or adjust his game for other surfaces. It's wise to write him off immediately.

Anyways, to answer the question, the only one I think who could seriously do it is Fed. Because he can win both in his sleep! His sleep, I tell ya.

Sjengster
04-07-2005, 09:07 PM
Not really, he was 2 games away form winning RG. Had he won he may not have won Wimby.

It's possible Mac may have had a mental letdown after triumphing in Paris, but with the kind of form he was displaying in 1984 I think he would have rolled to the Wimbledon title with just the same ease. Don't forget that he also defended his Queens title right on the back of playing the RG final, so physically he was in perfect shape throughout those few weeks and handled the quick transition from clay to grass perfectly. It's just that one volley that apparently still gives him nightmares...

RichardParker
04-08-2005, 03:45 AM
Not only federer, but also when my favorite football (Barcelona, MIlan) and hockey teams (Modo) looses, so I am in constant depression...
Well, Barcelona and Milan rarely lose... :rolleyes:
Anyway good luck next thuesday angainst Inter. (You are AC milan fan, right?)

Plastic Bertrand
04-08-2005, 04:36 AM
At the moment Federer is the best chance to do this underrated and very difficult feat. That being said there are doubts about him at RG, unless he can get rid of his particular phobias concerning Roland Garros.

McEnroe will never get over the fact that he led 2 sets to love in that final for one on his worst surface and also the fact he lost to Lendl makes that defeat even worse for him.

makro120
04-08-2005, 01:04 PM
Well, Barcelona and Milan rarely lose... :rolleyes:
Anyway good luck next thuesday angainst Inter. (You are AC milan fan, right?)

Yeah, but Chelsea seems to be on the way to stop them both.... :sad:

-ernie-
04-08-2005, 01:38 PM
I can see Nalbandian, he plays great on both surfaces, Safin could as well. Clay will be hard for Federer but i bet he can do it.

RichardParker
04-08-2005, 04:25 PM
Yeah, but Chelsea seems to be on the way to stop them both.... :sad:
No way. Liverpool are on their way to kick them off. Anticipating Liverpool AC milan final. ;)

makro120
04-08-2005, 06:11 PM
No way. Liverpool are on their way to kick them off. Anticipating Liverpool AC milan final. ;)

And they call me a crazy optimist.... :D