Are Argentine players overrated? [Archive] - MensTennisForums.com

Are Argentine players overrated?

Julio1974
03-28-2005, 08:25 PM
The true is that they have not won an important tournament (but for RG last year). I think Coria, Nalbandian and Gaudio are very good players but they are one step below Hewitt, Safin, Federer, Agasssi, etc. My impression was that Nalbandian or even Coria could reach the top four eventually, but I'm not so sure now. What do you think?

sigmagirl91
03-28-2005, 08:28 PM
The true is that they have not won an important tournament (but for RG last year). I think Coria, Nalbandian and Gaudio are very good players but they are one step below Hewitt, Safin, Federer, Agasssi, etc. My impression was that Nalbandian or even Coria could reach the top four eventually, but I'm not so sure now. What do you think?

Nalbandian and Coria have reached the top four before-after the 2004 RG. Ddi you miss that?

adeegee
03-28-2005, 08:28 PM
Coria's been in the top 4 before, and will probably be back at some point. Nalbandian has an amazing amount of talent but just doesn't quite have it mentally, he also needs to improve his serve to reach the very top. Gaudio is an immense clay courter but his lack of progress on faster surfaces will mean he's unlikely to reach the top 4.

Julio1974
03-28-2005, 08:34 PM
I know that David reached the top 4 after RG. Unfortunately, he got injured and missed Wimbledom, and two MS. However, they got in the top four when: Safin and Hewitt were coming back from their injuries; Roddich had had a very bad clay season (as usual). My questions is: Can David or Coria become a top four and stay there for a while? (not just for 2 or 3 weeks). Can David win a GS? Can Coria become a solid player in other surfaces other than clay? I used to think they could. I'm not so sure now.

*Ljubica*
03-28-2005, 08:38 PM
Well Coria has already won a couple of Masters' events - Hamburg 2003 and Monte Carlo 2004 so I would say they are both important tournaments. I would say both he and Nalbandian are scarily injury-prone which is another subject completely - but both are good enough in their different ways to hold Top 4 positions if they can stay healthy in my opinion.

adeegee
03-28-2005, 08:38 PM
David can definitely win a slam, I'd say he needs to improve his serve though. Coria is gradually improving on hard but still isn't anywhere near the top 4/5 hard court players.

Hendu
03-28-2005, 08:39 PM
The true is that they have not won an important tournament (but for RG last year). I think Coria, Nalbandian and Gaudio are very good players but they are one step below Hewitt, Safin, Federer, Agasssi, etc. My impression was that Nalbandian or even Coria could reach the top four eventually, but I'm not so sure now. What do you think?

Why do you ask this question now?

Nalbandian is struggling this year, but I am sure he will be back soon...

I am pretty sure Coria will be ok in the clay season...

Gaudio is playing well...

Cañas will probably enter in the top ten in the next couple of months...

And about the number of titles... I don't think they are overrated...

Nalbandian made the final in Wimbledon, and Semis in RG and the US Open.

Coria made the final in RG, and won some TMS

Gaudio won RG

Cañas won a TMS

plus they won many other small tournaments...

Julio1974
03-28-2005, 08:41 PM
David can definitely win a slam, I'd say he needs to improve his serve though. Coria is gradually improving on hard but still isn't anywhere near the top 4/5 hard court players.

I hope you are right. I still think David could have won the US Open 2003 had he beaten Roddick in the SF. I still regret that tie breack in the third set.

*Ljubica*
03-28-2005, 08:44 PM
I hope you are right. I still think David could have won the US Open 2003 had he beaten Roddick in the SF. I still regret that tie breack in the third set.

So do I - and David's career has definately slipped sinced then - but life's too short to dwell on things like that which happened almost 2 years ago now. David had his chance that night -he didn't take it for whatever reasons - time to move on I think -he has beaten Roddick twice since then so I know that he has put it behind him.

Julio1974
03-28-2005, 08:45 PM
Why do you ask this question now?

Nalbandian is struggling this year, but I am sure he will be back soon...

I am pretty sure Coria will be ok in the clay season...

Gaudio is playing well...

Cañas will probably enter in the top ten in the next couple of months...

And about the number of titles... I don't think they are overrated...

Nalbandian made the final in Wimbledon, and Semis in RG and the US Open.

Coria made the final in RG, and won some TMS

Gaudio won RG

Cañas won a TMS

plus they won many other small tournaments...

But none of them has the records of Roddick, or Safin or Hewitt (let alone Federer). My doubt is whether they could reach that level.

Hendu
03-28-2005, 08:45 PM
My questions is: Can David or Coria become a top four and stay there for a while? (not just for 2 or 3 weeks). Can David win a GS? Can Coria become a solid player in other surfaces other than clay? I used to think they could. I'm not so sure now.

They can... they have the talent, but sometimes thats not enough.

Nalbandian can play on all surfaces, he just has to do the click in his head, and start winning... I think that will happen next year or the other... (though, who knows? it might never happen).

Coria can easily be a steady top four just by dominating the clay season, and having a pretty regular hardcourt season (he has to stay away from injuries).

tennischick
03-28-2005, 09:24 PM
the Argentines are a talented bunch. but i am hopelessly biased n this one.

as we speak Chela appears to be on his way out of the tourny. probably too much partying last night. :(

alexito
03-28-2005, 09:31 PM
all players are 10 step below federer. but, nalbandian only win 2 tournament 3 year ago. coria too much injury. gaudio very good only in clay.

Scotso
03-28-2005, 09:41 PM
I personally feel that Nalbandian is overrated. The rest... eh...

adeegee
03-28-2005, 09:50 PM
the Argentines are a talented bunch. but i am hopelessly biased n this one.

as we speak Chela appears to be on his way out of the tourny. probably too much partying last night. :(

Chela was an absolute shambles, I think I could've beaten him

Scotso
03-28-2005, 10:11 PM
Chela was an absolute shambles, I think I could've beaten him

Sure you could've.....


Match Summary
Chela Henman
1st Serve % 70% 69%
Aces 1 4
Double Faults 1 2
Winning % - 1st Serve Pts. 15 of 30 = 50% 28 of 36 = 78%
Winning % - 2nd Serve Pts. 4 of 13 = 31% 8 of 16 = 50%
Winners (including service) 10 30
Unforced Errors 13 19
Break Point Conversions 0 of 1 = 0 % 4 of 5 = 80 %
Net Approaches 5 of 9 = 56 % 29 of 44 = 66 %
Total Points Won 35 60

Sjengster
03-28-2005, 10:44 PM
I don't think they're overrated, but perhaps they all lack the really big game that's needed to be in the Top 4 in the world on a consistent basis. The tour is still dominated by hardcourts, and the player who's best on them will usually be the year-end no. 1. I don't think Coria has it in him to win the really big hardcourt events; Nalbandian does, but he needs to win any kind of tournament to start with. As Rosie said, they've both been highly injury-prone and they're likely to get blown away by the biggest hitters on hardcourt - look at Nalbandian's record against Safin, or Coria's against Agassi. The other Argentinian players will always have their best success on clay, and they could still achieve big things this year. I'm hoping Gaudio can at last win a clay TMS and thus round out a pretty successful career, while Canas is a pretty good darkhorse bet for RG, provided he gets the right draw.

Jim Jones
03-29-2005, 12:16 AM
Nalbandian is definetely overated. He has only won 2 tournaments. His GS record is good but he lacks titles & I don't see him winning one ATP title this year. He is a bit like Pioline, talented but will only win a few titles.

Chloe le Bopper
03-29-2005, 01:08 AM
Coria's been in the top 4 before, and will probably be back at some point. Nalbandian has an amazing amount of talent but just doesn't quite have it mentally, he also needs to improve his serve to reach the very top. Gaudio is an immense clay courter but his lack of progress on faster surfaces will mean he's unlikely to reach the top 4.

Gaudio has a pretty good shot at reaching the top 5 before RG, though. Assuming he doesn't take any dumb losses on clay, of course.

Chloe le Bopper
03-29-2005, 01:10 AM
But none of them has the records of Roddick, or Safin or Hewitt (let alone Federer). My doubt is whether they could reach that level.

And absolutely nobody, aside from the occasional troll, gives them more credit for their career accomplishments than those guys. So I'm totally lost as to why you needed to ask if they are overrated and then go on to make this comparison.

NATAS81
03-29-2005, 01:11 AM
I wouldn't say they are all over rated. You gotta remember their strongsuit is clay. And we aren't there yet. That's where they perform best.

Nalbandian I don't know what's up with him. I see his serve and I think "Damn, how can they guy who is built have a bad serve?" I don't have any MPH numbers but.. he didn't well AT ALL in his last match. Then, I hear reports of a liver disease ? Don't know what to think of him. He's on my HC blacklist for now.

Don't enough of most of the other HC game to judge how they've been performing up until now in the year. You'll get a better read on them in the next month or so.

Chloe le Bopper
03-29-2005, 01:12 AM
This question would have been even more ridiculous had Coria not been injured for 6 months of last year, btw. I love how people keep forgetting about that and talk about him as if he's been active for the past 12 months.

Chloe le Bopper
03-29-2005, 01:14 AM
I think the first time this question started to come up was when 4 of them made the semis of Hamburg in 2003: Calleri, Coria, Nalbandian, and Gaudio. I remember hearing at the time how this was a fluke and would never happen again, that they wouldn't come close this at RG.... Oops :)

Keep on being overrated, guys :banana:

alexito
03-29-2005, 01:49 AM
zabaleta stole one set to federer, too embarrassed for federer.

Auscon
03-29-2005, 01:50 AM
I refuse to comment until after RG and DC v Aus

Chloe le Bopper
03-29-2005, 01:51 AM
Federer should retire immediately.

Hendu
03-29-2005, 03:34 AM
When I see all this Nalbandian bashing, I think if some people started wacthing tennis tournaments 3 months ago...

He has been playing horribly lately, he has been pathetic...

but lets make an exercise, name 10 players that have a better all around game than him.... or 5 players who can play on all surfaces like he does... you see? there aren't.

Its obvious that he has mental issues, but denying his skills is just stupid... he is clearly a top ten player. With a stronger head he would be a top 5.

jazz_girl
03-29-2005, 03:39 AM
When I see all this Nalbandian bashing, I think if some people started wacthing tennis tournaments 3 months ago...

He has been playing horribly lately, he has been pathetic...

but lets make an exercise, name 10 players that have a better all around game than him.... or 5 players who can play on all surfaces like he does... you see? there aren't.

Its obvious that he has mental issues, but denying his skills is just stupid... he is clearly a top ten player. With a stronger head he would be a top 5.
:yeah:

Scotso
03-29-2005, 03:46 AM
Yeah, I'm quite sure I've been following tennis longer than you, and I still feel that Nalbandian is overrated. Yes, he could be top 10... but mental ability is part of tennis. He doesn't have the brain of a top player.

jazz_girl
03-29-2005, 03:48 AM
Yeah, I'm quite sure I've been following tennis longer than you, and I still feel that Nalbandian is overrated. Yes, he could be top 10... but mental ability is part of tennis. He doesn't have the brain of a top player.
However he managed to stay in the top ten for more than 2 years in a row now and without even playing at his best nor playing many tournaments due to injuries.

Hendu
03-29-2005, 03:55 AM
Yeah, I'm quite sure I've been following tennis longer than you, and I still feel that Nalbandian is overrated. Yes, he could be top 10... but mental ability is part of tennis. He doesn't have the brain of a top player.

He could be a top ten? are you sure? we will see if he ever manages to get there... :rolleyes:

Scotso
03-29-2005, 04:00 AM
Oh no, I mistyped. I should be shot.

Gigan
03-29-2005, 04:06 AM
Oh no, I mistyped. I should be shot.

He doesn't have the brain of a top player.



maybe he has not brain for tennis, but he has enough good considerable dick for tennis...
you have to accept him ;)

__________________________________
:wavey: Andre Agassi forever :wavey:

Hendu
03-29-2005, 04:07 AM
Oh no, I mistyped. I should be shot.

I thought you meant what you wrote...

If people were shot because of those mistakes then I wouldn't last a week alive in the forum...

Hendu
03-29-2005, 04:10 AM
maybe he has not brain for tennis, but he has enough good considerable dick for tennis...
you have to accept him ;)

Thanks for that... :rolleyes:

Chloe le Bopper
03-29-2005, 04:24 AM
...

but lets make an exercise, name 10 players that have a better all around game than him.... or 5 players who can play on all surfaces like he does... you see? there aren't.

...

I'd be surprised if he didn't get an AO semifinal someday, and if he does that would mean he'd made the semifinals at all 4 slams. Not bad ;)

However, I think that the reason some people call him overrated is that he's been talked up as a future grand slam champion, when he hasn't even shown that he can win much in the way of tour titles because his record in finals is awful. It may not be entirely fair to him, since he has been injured so often thoughout his career... but I can see why people would say it.

I don't see why they would say about it Argentines in general though :shrug:

gravity
03-29-2005, 04:29 AM
I think there are many countries the world over that would love as many "overrated players" as Argentina continues to produce. What a stupid thread. :lol:

Hendu
03-29-2005, 04:30 AM
I'd be surprised if he didn't get an AO semifinal someday, and if he does that would mean he'd made the semifinals at all 4 slams. Not bad ;)

However, I think that the reason some people call him overrated is that he's been talked up as a future grand slam champion, when he hasn't even shown that he can win much in the way of tour titles because his record in finals is awful. It may not be entirely fair to him, since he has been injured so often thoughout his career... but I can see why people would say it.

I don't see why they would say about it Argentines in general though :shrug:

yes, but saying he is a top player is not overrating... he clearly is.

I don't think Nalbandian can win a GS, at least not yet... but who knows? Gaudio won RG.

Chloe le Bopper
03-29-2005, 04:31 AM
yes, but saying he is a top player is not overrating... he clearly is.

I don't think Nalbandian can win a GS, at least not yet... but who knows? Gaudio won RG.
I don't really expect him to, but I'll hold out hope for as long as possible ;)

sigmagirl91
03-29-2005, 09:34 AM
he has enough good considerable dick for tennis...


OK...that's way too much information....anyhow, I didn't think he ranked with the "big dick" guys.... :o

bad gambler
03-29-2005, 09:47 AM
i rather turn this question around and say there are a couple of argies who are underrated, the big one that comes to mind is highlights acasuso

although his game has yet to develop outside clay, watch out for him this year in the european clay circus and build on his strong performances in sopot and bucharest last year and make a name for himself in the big clay masters tournaments

this guy will be big in the years to come - i'm a big fan, which is odd becuase i can barely stay awake most of the time when this time of year rolls around ;)

Smankyou
03-29-2005, 10:26 AM
maybe he has not brain for tennis, but he has enough good considerable dick for tennis...
Gigan! :eek: When did you get a dirty mouth?

Smankyou
03-29-2005, 10:48 AM
i rather turn this question around and say there are a couple of argies who are underrated, the big one that comes to mind is highlights acasuso

although his game has yet to develop outside clay, watch out for him this year in the european clay circus and build on his strong performances in sopot and bucharest last year and make a name for himself in the big clay masters tournaments

this guy will be big in the years to come - i'm a big fan, which is odd becuase i can barely stay awake most of the time when this time of year rolls around ;)
His downfall seems to be the slams. He just doesn't perform well in them. On any surface. I don't think he's ever been past the 2nd round. But he was injured at last year's RG (I think), so hopefully he can capitalise on it this year.

There's something about Bucharest that brings out the best in the tall Argie.

Billy Moonshine
03-29-2005, 01:51 PM
How can they be overrated? Who overrated them?
Look at their records!

Denaon
03-30-2005, 03:12 AM
I think there are many countries the world over that would love as many "overrated players" as Argentina continues to produce. What a stupid thread. :lol:
:lol: :haha: :yeah:

Aphex
03-30-2005, 03:41 AM
My two favourite players in the top ten are Moya and Nalbandian. My main problem with Nalbandian is when his tactical plans don't work, and he's usually very good at making up and executing those, he gets lost and just quits. For example against Gaudio at RG 04 and against Safin in Madrid 04. Otherwise, he's great. :D

Gonzo Hates Me!
04-22-2005, 11:16 PM
The true is that they have not won an important tournament (but for RG last year). I think Coria, Nalbandian and Gaudio are very good players but they are one step below Hewitt, Safin, Federer, Agasssi, etc. My impression was that Nalbandian or even Coria could reach the top four eventually, but I'm not so sure now. What do you think?

One, it's hard to say they are overrated to me because nobody is terribly hyping any of them up. They have a lot of fans, but beyond that, they don't have the kind of hype and media attention i think where there should be the question of whether or not they deserve such attention. Coria, Gaudio and Nalbandian have receive a just amount of attention imo

And does not sweeping the Masters Series and the Slams make someone overrated? They never garnered the kind of attention that Roddick, Monfils or Nadal ever received in the first place. I mean, I'm confused

Julio1974
04-22-2005, 11:23 PM
One, it's hard to say they are overrated to me because nobody is terribly hyping any of them up. They have a lot of fans, but beyond that, they don't have the kind of hype and media attention i think where there should be the question of whether or not they deserve such attention. Coria, Gaudio and Nalbandian have receive a just amount of attention imo

And does not sweeping the Masters Series and the Slams make someone overrated? They never garnered the kind of attention that Roddick, Monfils or Nadal ever received in the first place. I mean, I'm confused

I think overrated was the wrong word.

Horatio Caine
04-23-2005, 12:11 AM
Nalbandian is a little like Henman - always someone that has had the talent to win a GS but has never fulfilled it...whether he will is another matter. My personal feeling is no.

Coria should a slam before he retires although Nadal has now arrived for the clay and countless others will be there in the next 3 or so years. Maybe he had his chance last year? Who knows.

The Argentines aren't consistent top 4 players. Coria had been #3 for a while but it was clear that he would be bumped down by someone that was capable of winning many more points on different surfaces. Nalbanidan has the talent to be top 4 and always has but when he has had the chance to push he has always been injured...he will have a long wait now.

In my opinion the top 4 is to stay for a few years...at least until Safin loses the Aus points (but he should still pick up after Wimbledon). None of the Argentines have the capabilities to be consistent top 5 players right now, so make do with a few in the top 10 ;)

As for Grand Slams, The Aus is for Federer, Hewitt, Safin or Roddick. The French is for Coria, Gaudio, Nadal or Ferrero. Wimbledon is for....err Federer. The US Open is for Hewitt, Roddick or Federer or Safin.

FERD
05-02-2005, 04:15 AM
I think there are many countries the world over that would love as many "overrated players" as Argentina continues to produce. What a stupid thread. :lol:
:worship:

oz_boz
05-02-2005, 08:14 AM
The true is that they have not won an important tournament (but for RG last year). I think Coria, Nalbandian and Gaudio are very good players but they are one step below Hewitt, Safin, Federer, Agasssi, etc. My impression was that Nalbandian or even Coria could reach the top four eventually, but I'm not so sure now. What do you think?

Like some have pointed out, "overrated" is not really the word to use here. But:

I think that only Nalbandian is possible top-4 material of the Argies, and he must improve his serve to really be a contender - partucularly so since Nadal has begun to show his potential. Coria and Gaudio are too specialised to stay top 4 for a longer period of time.

nermo
05-02-2005, 10:34 AM
I dont think ther are overrated...they have a looottt of talent..i like the way they play ..but...still,Nalbandian and coria...have a long history of injuries, a little fighting spirit i think...Gaudio..has this spirit but a less talent..

Action Jackson
05-02-2005, 10:35 AM
I dont think ther are overrated...they have a looottt of talent..i like the way they play ..but...still,Nalbandian and coria...have a long history of injuries, a little fighting spirit i think...Gaudio..has this spirit but a less talent..

Gaudio is probably most talented of this generation, Coria and Nalbandian have shown better fighting spirit over the years.

nermo
05-02-2005, 10:51 AM
Gaudio is probably mosttalented of this generation, Coria and Nalbandian have shown better fighting spirit over the years.


i mean no offense but thats really my opinion..and i amnot sure about Gaudio being most talented of thisss generation..

Action Jackson
05-02-2005, 10:58 AM
i mean no offense but thats really my opinion..and i amnot sure about Gaudio being most talented of thisss generation..

This is according to natural ability not who is the most successful. He is more naturally talented than Nalbandian and Coria, but there is a distinct possibility that he won't have as successful career as those two players, but unlike those two at the moment he has won a Slam.

nermo
05-02-2005, 11:09 AM
This is according to natural ability not who is the most successful. He is more naturally talented than Nalbandian and Coria, but there is a distinct possibility that he won't have as successful career as those two players, but unlike those two at the moment he has won a Slam.

oh yes..thaaaat Slam :sad: :bigcry: ...ll never forget it. :crying2: ..i was really about to have a nervous breakdown at that final. :hysteric: :silly: ...but u must admit..Coria reached his peak level at first 2 sets...Gaudio was so helpless infront of Coria ..it showed the difference in talent between them.. :

Action Jackson
05-02-2005, 11:13 AM
oh yes..thaaaat Slam :sad: :bigcry: ...ll never forget it. :crying2: ..i was really about to have a nervous breakdown at that final. :hysteric: :silly: ...but u must admit..Coria reached his peak level at first 2 sets...Gaudio was so helpless infront of Coria ..it showed the difference in talent between them.. :

Don't even start with me, actually if you had a clue and saw one guy was ridiculously nervous and the other handled the occasion better at the time, then the other buckled under pressure when the opponent played better and made a match of it. Players have got to handle all conditions and others with superior physical fitness should be rewarded, Coria bottled it when it was there for him to win and that is his own fault.

nermo
05-02-2005, 11:21 AM
I agree its his fault...but i wasnot talking about results ...its a matter of talent...

Action Jackson
05-02-2005, 11:24 AM
I agree its his fault...but i wasnot talking about results ...its a matter of talent...

Coria has the strongest self-belief in this group that is without question, that is not the same as natural ability.

nermo
05-02-2005, 11:27 AM
ok...may be .. :) :)